Computer Programming

[bradclark1]

Out of curiosity.
I'm teaching myself Dark Basic and 2D animation. Anybody else a programmer or teaching themselves a language?

[Psycluded]

Might I recommend the XNA framework, Microsoft's latest push towards making game-creation viable for the hobbyist programmer?

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/xna/default.aspx

You will need MS Visual C# Express to install the XNA API and extensions:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/default.aspx

Also, there are some tools in the DirectX SDK that are helpful, specifically the .dds file type conversion utilities for Photoshop, etc.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C72D9F1E-53F3-4747-8490-6801D8E8B4EF&displaylang=en

Here's some good resources on XNA out there:
https://creators.xna.com/Default.aspx - XNA Creator's Club (requires MS Live ID)
http://www.xnaresources.com - Fantastic tutorial and XNA news site

Also, make sure to hit up and read the gamedev.net forums religiously. Specifically the .Net forums.

Oh, and to answer your questions, yes, I'm a programmer and yes I'm mostly self-taught. Currently attending college online at UAT, but that's a new development.

[kiwi_2005]

I use to play around with Visual Studio 6, just out of pure bordom i would create Error message windows put them up on local message boards and fool the poster into thinking they were doing some type of damage on the forum. The moderators were in on it they thought it was hilarious i would target boring old hens who would start threads with "What are you knitting today" We would let them know a few posts down it was a joke and not to panic. :)

But Visual Studio 6 was the starting point for me. I lost interest, gaming seems to always win.

[SUBMAN1]

Out of curiosity.
I'm teaching myself Dark Basic and 2D animation. Anybody else a programmer or teaching themselves a language?

It has probably been 15 years since I made anything. I still could probably cobble something together in C or Basic, but I used to be able to do Fortran and Pascal too.

By the way - self taught. All I had as a kid was a CP/M based system and if you wanted anything for it, you had to program it yourself. Only downside to game creation - you already know what is going to happen!

[Skybird]

I learned GFA Basic 3.0 for the Amiga, which back then was considered a very good and structured programming language. Did it for fun an interest only. It compared to things like Pascal in structure and performance, which I was introduced to at school, and later learned more about it in private.

It was another age...

[lesrae]

I still could probably cobble something together in C or Basic, but I used to be able to do Fortran and Pascal too.

Similar to me, I started doing Basic about 25 years ago and did Pascal at college. Now I just potter about with shell scripts for telnet, batch files etc.

[Psycluded]

For me, it all started with a TI-82 calculator and free time in math class.

From there I graduated to MUD scripting and coding, working on LPMuds and TMI/TMI-2 (codebases for LPMuds).

After (and during) that, I was flunking college because I was burned out on school so badly I could hardly -make- myself concentrate. I decided if I was gonna spin my wheels, I might as well do it somewhere I might manage to accidentally do some good, so I joined up with the US Air Force and spend the last 6 years developing web applications for them in Java and .Net.

Now I'm a freelance designer/artist/programmer, and going to school on my own time while my wife finishes her enlistment in the Air Force as well.

[daft]

I'm studying to become a IS-developer with focus on application programming/systems analysis. I'm having the time of my life so far, learning C#, Delphi, Java and SQL Server and MySQL in addition to the methodological aspect of software and systems development (RUP and FA/SIMM). I never even imagined I would feel so passionate about something like this. :)

[1mPHUNit0]

I'm started with my zx spectrum sinclair
in 1982 i think.
And i love Assembler

[jumpy]

Simple AutoLisp coding for CAD. Automating plot settings etc and certain command strings.
I hate it. :lol:

[bradclark1]

I'm studying to become a IS-developer with focus on application programming/systems analysis. I'm having the time of my life so far, learning C#, Delphi, Java and SQL Server and MySQL in addition to the methodological aspect of software and systems development (RUP and FA/SIMM). I never even imagined I would feel so passionate about something like this. :)
Do you own shares of NoDoz?

[bradclark1]

For me, it all started with a TI-82 calculator and free time in math class.

From there I graduated to MUD scripting and coding, working on LPMuds and TMI/TMI-2 (codebases for LPMuds).

After (and during) that, I was flunking college because I was burned out on school so badly I could hardly -make- myself concentrate. I decided if I was gonna spin my wheels, I might as well do it somewhere I might manage to accidentally do some good, so I joined up with the US Air Force and spend the last 6 years developing web applications for them in Java and .Net.

Now I'm a freelance designer/artist/programmer, and going to school on my own time while my wife finishes her enlistment in the Air Force as well.
I tried to get my son to join up in that kind of field but my career scared him off of the military. Now he's a photographer.:cry:

[daft]

Do you own shares of NoDoz?

Can't say that I do. :)

[Psycluded]

For me, it all started with a TI-82 calculator and free time in math class.

From there I graduated to MUD scripting and coding, working on LPMuds and TMI/TMI-2 (codebases for LPMuds).

After (and during) that, I was flunking college because I was burned out on school so badly I could hardly -make- myself concentrate. I decided if I was gonna spin my wheels, I might as well do it somewhere I might manage to accidentally do some good, so I joined up with the US Air Force and spend the last 6 years developing web applications for them in Java and .Net.

Now I'm a freelance designer/artist/programmer, and going to school on my own time while my wife finishes her enlistment in the Air Force as well. I tried to get my son to join up in that kind of field but my career scared him off of the military. Now he's a photographer.:cry:

A lot of kids are avoiding the military like the plague these days, and I can't say I blame them, in a lot of ways. Still, the Air Force gave me three things I did not have before I joined:

a) Money for college.
b) The chance to meet and woo my wife.
c) A love of my country that will never fade. (notice I said "country" and not "government")

Still, there are worse things than being a photographer.

[GlobalExplorer]

Developing a game is still at the back of my mind .. in the future .. but it requires at least two capable people, a programmer and an artist, as neither could take over the work of the other.

I have done a lot of research into technology last year, and the best bet seems to be wxWidgets and Ogre3d, both are very powerful opensource libraries, portable to different operating systems, and have great, living communities.

Advice to guys learning to program: start with Java or C#, they both teach the most essential concepts. Later you might have to move on to C++ at some point, which can be hard. Don't get stuck with VB it completely messes up your style and your abilities.

Might I recommend the XNA framework, Microsoft's latest push towards making game-creation viable for the hobbyist programmer?

My advice is to be careful - for my liking MS drops the ball on this kind of stuff a bit too much - I mean wasnt Managed DX to be the next big thing? I am also against this because with the console portability XNA is going to be another blow for the PC.

[bradclark1]

Yeah, Java and C# are and is the future for web apps and more. I get that impression anyway. C++ scares me to death because of the screw up damage factor. I hate reformatting.

[GlobalExplorer]

Don't know what you mean about reformatting, but C++ is something that you should leave for later. The workload for the programmer is very high, because you have to master a lot of things simultaneously, memory management and compiler setup being the most problematic ones. It's just not that much fun, and I usually spend only a fraction of time actually programming C++, but rather struggling with something.

Mind however that once a C++ application is compiled into native code, the programs run very well, and are generally much more responsive than managed code - no matter what people might tell you - the bad performance of Java applications speeks for itself.

With portability becoming more of a reality, C++ has seen some sort of rennaissance lately. There is already the new C++09 standard on the horizon, which will make C++ a much more modern language with features like garbage collection, generics and a much better standard library.

So to sum up, I would say start with Java or C#, and move on to C++ after you have become comfortable with all OO concepts. My personal opinion is better stay clear of the "cheap" options like VB or Delphi, while they are nice for beginners, they dont teach the important paradigms, or can lead to rather blurry misconceptions about programming.

[bradclark1]

Don't know what you mean about reformatting
You can manipulate the hardware with C++ right? If you mess with memory wrong you might have to reformat?
How many programs I installed on win 98 and it screwed up windows so bad I had to reformat and reinstall.

[GlobalExplorer]

You can manipulate the hardware with C++ right? If you mess with memory wrong you might have to reformat?
How many programs I installed on win 98 and it screwed up windows so bad I had to reformat and reinstall.

You can wreak that kind of havoc with any language, but yes, if you're beginning with C++ it is almost unavoidable :) C++ is actually only a high level abstraction to produce assembly language.

The biggest problem is that you write into the wrong memory areas and cause the system to crash. Like the classic example:

int* array = new int[100];
array[-10] = 1;

Of course that's completely ridiculous, and modern languages would all throw something like ArrayOutOfBoundsException - but in C++ it works and the results are of course unpredictable.

Then you also have dangling pointers, which are pointing to an object that has already been deleted - very ugly and very easy to produce.

In managed environments (Java/C#) the runtime will prevent your program accessing anything out of its scope, and it will automatically free up any unused memory, while in C++ you that is all your responsibility.

I wouldn't say running your own C++ programs will force you to reinstall your OS, but you should see lots of crashes / runtime errors.

[1mPHUNit0]

Totally correct
And love assembler...it's a must

[Wim Libaers]

Basic (Amiga)*, Pascal (TP7)*, x86 asm, C++*, C, Matlab, Python, Lisp*, Tcl, R.
Roughly in the order I started with them.

The ones marked with a * are the ones I tried and either decided to quit because I considered them to be not really worth my time anymore for some reason, or where I do not know enough yet to make them really useful for me (Lisp). Currently considering starting with Fortran.

[bradclark1]

Thats quite the list. I expected to see Lua there.

[Wim Libaers]

I choose languages when I expect to learn some new concepts by learning them, or because they have some practical value for a new project. Lua seems to be interesting as an embeddable scripting system, and is popular in games. I'm interested in game programming, even did a few small things in that direction as a hobby, but my current focus is more on scientific work, mostly optics and processing of experimental data (currently working in physical chemistry, making photonic crystals from colloids). I've also used Testpoint for data acquisition, but I'm not sure if it's relevant to include as yet another language. It's like Labview: it's a language, but it's mostly used as a collection of drivers for measuring equipment, then dumping the data into a file for processing by some other program.

That's why I am considering Fortran now: lots of code libraries that might be of some use. Also why I learned Tcl: not exceptionally interesting as a language, but it's the most obvious way to use the Tk library -> easy GUI on any platform, even if it's a bit slow, the big calculations can be done in other languages anyway.