Moving to DW

[Steel_Tomb]

Hey, I'm a bit of a SHIII vet (got IV but its broke atm so not playing it!) but I really like the modern subs. Played the demo and I loved it, only problem is that im completely lost with the sonar and just about everything else lol. whats the average learning curve for this game from something like SHIII?

[Blacklight]

It's quite a jump considering the learning of several different platforms. I would reccomend purchasing the printed manual with it. It's nice to have a paper copy in front of you to reference while playing. The manual, while huge, is in large part dedicated to explaining stuff like "What is target motion analysis, how does it work" and other subjects. It may seem intimidating at first. I reccomend starting with one platform (Probably one of the subs... I prefer the 688i to start off with), and sticking with it till you get decent at it.. then bop up to another platform and learn it. DW is actually a pretty sweet game, albeit graphicly being nowhere NEAR SH III, but graphics aren't what DW is designed for. It's a hardcore simulation. My only pet peve is that the AI sometimes isn't that great on occasion, but it's a minor nit pick and most situations will play out acceptably.

[sonar732]

Unfortunately, you can't get the printed manual unless you are lucky enough to find one on eBay...see this thread (http://www.sonalystscombatsims.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=992).

Might I suggest going to subguru.com and look at the downloads section for good reading on various subjects...look especially at TimmyGoo's manual (http://www.subguru.com/missions/SCHQ_TACMAN_PDF.zip)and Seawolves Bluebook (http://www.subguru.com/BluebookR20.zip).

Last, but not least, if you have a question, feel free to ask!

[fatty]

I am wondering, is there any demand for narrated video tutorials or anything like that? :hmm:

[goldorak]

Hey, I'm a bit of a SHIII vet (got IV but its broke atm so not playing it!) but I really like the modern subs. Played the demo and I loved it, only problem is that im completely lost with the sonar and just about everything else lol. whats the average learning curve for this game from something like SHIII?

Welcome into the DW comunity mate. :D
Now, Dw is an old school simulation, that means its learning curve is steep, very steep albeit not impossibile. :rotfl:
Think something along the lines of Falcon 4. :know:
Most of the difficulty actually arises in 2 fields : learning how to use proficiently TMA and learning the best tactics in relation to the unit you're using.
The manual is great in explaining what the different stations do, but it doesn't tell you how to use effectively the unit nor does it go in detail into TMA theory.
For that you'll have to read as sonar372 said above, TimmyGoo's manual and Seawolves Bluebook for sub units. Or read Oneshots guide for the p-3 and mh-60r.

[Steel_Tomb]

I play F4 and didn't find it too bad learning curve wise (but I've been playing flight sim's for years so that might have something to do with it). I'll take a peek at those threads and hopefully get my hands on a copy sometime next week. Are there any tutorials with voice over? Ironhands site was great for that kind of thing when I was learning to fly in Lock On.

[goldorak]

I play F4 and didn't find it too bad learning curve wise (but I've been playing flight sim's for years so that might have something to do with it). I'll take a peek at those threads and hopefully get my hands on a copy sometime next week. Are there any tutorials with voice over? Ironhands site was great for that kind of thing when I was learning to fly in Lock On.

There are some video tutorials with the game, but they are very lacking.
You're better off reading timmy's G00 manual for tma/tactics.

[Steel_Tomb]

Ok I should have the game towards the end of the week just ordered it online. Which sub is the best to start out on? I would like to use one of the US subs.

[Molon Labe]

I think the 688I is a bit easier to learn because of the smoother interface, particularly at the sonar and TMA stations. The Seawolf interface tends to be more layered and can be a bit cumbersome. It's also easier to notice faint contacts on the 688I's NB, but increasing the gamma in the DW .ini file should eliminate the difference.

The Seawolf, of course, is much more powerful, so if your concern is geared more towards towards learning tactics than learning to drive the boat itself, the SW is the better choice. It's quieter, has a better towed array, and has a lot more firepower, so it's significantly easier to use in combat.

[Steel_Tomb]

I want to be able to launch TLAM (sp?) strikes, can the 688i do that?

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh yes. And with the VLS tubes, you can launch many, many TLAMs at once. Just watch your compressed air.

[Steel_Tomb]

Awesome, just watched a trailer for it can't wait to get this sim loaded and running...getting a bit bored of the SH series its all the same after a while, and after 1943 your a dead man if your located by a DD its nearly impossible to get away I've only ever got away from DD's once in 44. One isnt too bad but when theres 3 or 4 lol...well...'nuff said! (Bet the Krauts would have loved a TLAM back then lol.)

[Keelbuster]

Hey, I'm a bit of a SHIII vet (got IV but its broke atm so not playing it!) but I really like the modern subs. Played the demo and I loved it, only problem is that im completely lost with the sonar and just about everything else lol. whats the average learning curve for this game from something like SHIII?

It's a steep learning curve - i've played DW for a while (probably like 20 or 30 missions), but I came from SH3. Each of the stations in DW is like its own game. On the other hand, the autocrew is great, so you can play as merely the commander (order course, torpedo attacks) or you can get your hands dirty in TMA, sonar tracking, helms, etc. It's pretty cool.

The main shock that i had coming from SH3 is that DW has no 'dynamic campaign'. The campaign is just a series of single missions that get unlocked, so there is no continuity/role-playing factor. It's too bad that way. But the simulation is really cool - just hard as hell. Also, it's a bit confusing. I've played for a while, but am still very confused in combat - when people start shooting, you don't know WTF is going on. Basically, you just have bearing information - i.e. Torpedo In the Water at 330. It's tough because unless you've identified people at various bearings, it's tough to know who's firing at what. I was in a huge battle the other day involving roughly 15 units. Before I had identified anybody, i get TiW reports all over. Someone launched 8 torpedoes....i didn't know whether to run or stay still. I decided to stay still, gamblign that i hadn't been detected. I hear some pinging, then explosions somewhere else. I was in the middle of an huge battle and no one knew i was there! It was crazy. Anyway, welcome to DW.

[JamesT73J]

Hey, I'm a bit of a SHIII vet (got IV but its broke atm so not playing it!) but I really like the modern subs. Played the demo and I loved it, only problem is that im completely lost with the sonar and just about everything else lol. whats the average learning curve for this game from something like SHIII?

It's a steep learning curve - i've played DW for a while (probably like 20 or 30 missions), but I came from SH3. Each of the stations in DW is like its own game. On the other hand, the autocrew is great, so you can play as merely the commander (order course, torpedo attacks) or you can get your hands dirty in TMA, sonar tracking, helms, etc. It's pretty cool.

The main shock that i had coming from SH3 is that DW has no 'dynamic campaign'. The campaign is just a series of single missions that get unlocked, so there is no continuity/role-playing factor. It's too bad that way. But the simulation is really cool - just hard as hell. Also, it's a bit confusing. I've played for a while, but am still very confused in combat - when people start shooting, you don't know WTF is going on. Basically, you just have bearing information - i.e. Torpedo In the Water at 330. It's tough because unless you've identified people at various bearings, it's tough to know who's firing at what. I was in a huge battle the other day involving roughly 15 units. Before I had identified anybody, i get TiW reports all over. Someone launched 8 torpedoes....i didn't know whether to run or stay still. I decided to stay still, gamblign that i hadn't been detected. I hear some pinging, then explosions somewhere else. I was in the middle of an huge battle and no one knew i was there! It was crazy. Anyway, welcome to DW.
Experience, experience, experience.

'Busy' maps are very hard work, even if you're practiced at TMA. The trick is to learn to prioritise. Know that chattering BB line is probably a fishing boat? Ignore it. Look for entities that are relevant to the mission. If there's a contact between you and your objective, try and work out what it is; is it an ASW vessel? Is there a layer? Can you skirt around it? Or maybe just go straight underneath it? All these options are what make DW such fun for me. Plus it's slow enough paced that I can enjoy it with a glass of wine and just relax.

When I first played DW online (used to play a great deal of SC back in the day) I found many matches extremely challenging - new players took to the new ASW platforms very well, and I found life very hard playing as subs, but I can tell you that it was great fun. Gone were the days of playing SC matches that took three hours with very little happening.

On the other hand, some MP scenarios aren't well designed for sub drivers. I played a few where the player starts way too far from things (a common mistake in scenario design - remember that in an online match there is no time compression, so the scenario MUST be designed with all players having the possibility to get into contact within a reasonable time frame)

Fire discipline in some MP games is usually a laugh. People shoot away at anything. In terms of multiple TIW warnings, the first thing to do is find the torpedo on Broadband. If it's moving left or right, it's unlikely to go near you. If it's on a constant bearing, get out of there. Do remember that there is a lot of ocean in most scenarios - you're usually quite safe. LWAMI penalises unnaccurate shooting though. In the stock game, you could rely on MK48's sniffing out targets on piss-poor firing solutions (it was even easier in stock SC) but LWAMI places a premium on getting your numbers correct.

Someone launched 8 torpedoes....i didn't know whether to run or stay still. I decided to stay still, gamblign that i hadn't been detected. I hear some pinging, then explosions somewhere else. I was in the middle of an huge battle and no one knew i was there! It was crazy.

Happens alot. Isn't it fun!


James

[Keelbuster]

Yea - it is fun. Thanks for the reply. I ought to check out a MP match at some point. Thanks for the tip on tracking torpedoes on broadband - I always go to narrowband straight away. I'm still trying to figure out how to properly apply trackers - and i haven't figured out the demon console yet. For some reason i can't seem to bring a tracker up on that display.

I was playing through the campaign missions. I think it was the third or fourth mission: as the american sub you're supposed to recon a convoy and periscope check the ships. I couldn't figure out how to get close - because they were like 30 nm away, and if i tried to catch them at high speed, i'd cavitate, or else just get detected. Well, I remembered that thermal layers are modeled (yes, a real sim!), and found out that at 800ft there was a layer. I went below it, and covered the distance at 33kts - without being detected! It was so hype. When i got in the convoy path I just floated up to the shallows at 2kts, trailing all my sensors behind me like a giant squid. What an awesome experience. I was never detected. It was my first modern convoy hunt. With all the trouble we go through in SH3 to get in the path of the convoy, this was way cool. Nuclear power is WICKED. :rock:

[LuftWolf]

Yea - it is fun... Nuclear power is WICKED. :rock:

Tell your friends. ;)

Cheers,
David

[goldorak]

Nuclear power is WICKED. :rock:

Absolutely :rock: but you haven't seen what you can do with diesel power in the game.
Diesel Boats (Kilo subs) are really really wicked. :arrgh!:
You might wanto to tell that to SH 3-4 skippers.