[TEC] I made an interesting discovery regarding hull failure

[nvdrifter]

I made an interesting discovery regarding sub hull failures. I was looking at sub hull hitpoints and they range from only 100 hp to 600 hp. These are low numbers and may explain why a lot of people are having hull failure after repairing and diving. Their crush depths can be greatly reduced after taking only one or two hits because of the low sub hull hitpoints. :hmm:

[Redwine]

I made an interesting discovery regarding sub hull failures. I was looking at sub hull hitpoints and they range from only 100 hp to 600 hp. These are low numbers and may explain why a lot of people are having hull failure after repairing and diving. Their crush depths can be greatly reduced after taking only one or two hits because of the low sub hull hitpoints. :hmm:

Yes...many values are only 25% i have in my SH3 files....

[Arkon]

Have either of you changed the numbers tosee if it makes a difference , if you could tell me where it is & how to change it I would try it and see ! I wait for your reply Chris

[Redwine]

Have either of you changed the numbers tosee if it makes a difference , if you could tell me where it is & how to change it I would try it and see ! I wait for your reply Chris
Working on that, but it is a long way ....

Armor, flooding times, flotability and hit points are into Zones.cfg files.

look for :

;UBoat Items

At middle of the file.

Try rising up hit points for compartements 50% or 100%

I sugest you to rise up flooding times (for compartements only) up to 3600.

Compartements are those wich values of 120.

Do not touch flooding times into items with value 59.999996.

[nvdrifter]

Have either of you changed the numbers tosee if it makes a difference , if you could tell me where it is & how to change it I would try it and see ! I wait for your reply Chris
My 'Das Boot Moments' mod gives the subs a lot of hull points and I haven't experienced the problem of shallow crush depths yet. Maybe somewhere like aroung 1000-1500 hull hitpoints would be ideal. People are complaining hull failure is a bug. I'm not sure if this is true. I think the reason is the small hull hitpoints.

[cdrake66]

I wonder, does this explain my current predicament? I had some damage and flooding in the aft torpedo room. The bulkhead has been repaired and the flooding pumped out. On my damage control screen then boat looks to be in good shape. However, when I try to dive to periscope depth the stern descends to periscope depth while the bow continues to stick out of the water.

I am currently trying to limp back to Pearl on the surface while fending off air attacks since I can't really submerge and hide during daylight hours. This feels like a bug to me rather than an intended feature.

Regards,
Chris

[Kaleu_Mihoo]

Mr. Redwine, my antivirus says you have a TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 - Trojan attached to your sig. Please sort it out.
regards

[Jungman]

Same here. 'Banker' virus detected by Antivira

...FirmaSubSim2007[1].jpg

TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 Trojan horse.

I though it was only me.

[U-Bones]

Have either of you changed the numbers tosee if it makes a difference , if you could tell me where it is & how to change it I would try it and see ! I wait for your reply Chris
My 'Das Boot Moments' mod gives the subs a lot of hull points and I haven't experienced the problem of shallow crush depths yet. Maybe somewhere like aroung 1000-1500 hull hitpoints would be ideal. People are complaining hull failure is a bug. I'm not sure if this is true. I think the reason is the small hull hitpoints.
I agree and am running a P class at 1800 HP as a test. While on the topic nvdrifter, your sub tweak files have an error in the Balao "Path" - it points to one of the IJN Subs. Easy to correct, but FYI.

regards

p.s. I would -love- to have the offsets for the armor in the NSS_*.zon files (for whoever out there that knows them).

[Redwine]

Mr. Redwine, my antivirus says you have a TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 - Trojan attached to your sig. Please sort it out.
regards
Same here. 'Banker' virus detected by Antivira

...FirmaSubSim2007[1].jpg

TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 Trojan horse.

I though it was only me.
I soupose it is not related to the signture, it is only a simple .jpg file, instead the hosting site... :hmm:

I downloaded the files and checked it with NOD32 and nothing happens.

Strange i have not alert, may be my security programs or web browser security add-ons :hmm:


Well ... i moved it from that hosting to a new hosting, now it is on ImageShack ....

How about it now ?

[Redwine]

My 'Das Boot Moments' mod gives the subs a lot of hull points and I haven't experienced the problem of shallow crush depths yet. Maybe somewhere like aroung 1000-1500 hull hitpoints would be ideal. People are complaining hull failure is a bug. I'm not sure if this is true. I think the reason is the small hull hitpoints.
Hi Nvdrifter... still you have with those values, 1000/1500 hit points, the posibility of to be killed by a single direct impact ?

Of course it is a little bit hard to test, because depth charges as random values between certain values.

Did you increased the power of the depth charges or are you maintaining the stock values ?

Very interesting your hit points rise up ... :up:

[Ducimus]

After the experience i just had, i woudlnt recommend upping the hitpoints. Least of all on the bulkhead.

Behold, the results of a circular running torpedo

http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/own_torpedo.jpg
This, is what should be left of my engine room. I should have been sunk, but wasn't.

Yup, i had alot of engine damage, but the bulkhead was unscratched, and i had no flooding. All i did, was take the bulkhead hitpoints, and change it from 100, to 400. I used 400 because it seemed logical to make the bulkhead as tough as the compartments in the zones.cfg. Said compartments i changed to 400 hps, because thats what it was in SH3.


I honestly don't think bulkhead hitpoints should be raised past 200, and i mean seriously, look at the damage thats being rendered. Nobody survives that. My boat should be at the bottom of the Java sea right now.

[Jungman]

Mr. Redwine, my antivirus says you have a TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 - Trojan attached to your sig. Please sort it out.
regards
Same here. 'Banker' virus detected by Antivira

...FirmaSubSim2007[1].jpg

TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 Trojan horse.

I though it was only me.
I soupose it is not related to the signture, it is only a simple .jpg file, instead the hosting site... :hmm:

I downloaded the files and checked it with NOD32 and nothing happens.

Strange i have not alert, may be my security programs or web browser security add-ons :hmm:


Well ... i moved it from that hosting to a new hosting, now it is on ImageShack ....

How about it now ?

Sorry, it is still there. Wierd. It says the jpg picture is a mask for the trojan horse. Maybe my Antivira virus detector is over the top.

[Gizzmoe]

It´s a false alarm.

[Kaleu_Mihoo]

Mr. Redwine, my antivirus says you have a TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 - Trojan attached to your sig. Please sort it out.
regards
Same here. 'Banker' virus detected by Antivira

...FirmaSubSim2007[1].jpg

TR/Spy.Banker.vk.1 Trojan horse.

I though it was only me.
I soupose it is not related to the signture, it is only a simple .jpg file, instead the hosting site... :hmm:

I downloaded the files and checked it with NOD32 and nothing happens.

Strange i have not alert, may be my security programs or web browser security add-ons :hmm:


Well ... i moved it from that hosting to a new hosting, now it is on ImageShack ....

How about it now ?

I'm sorry to say, but for me it's still there. The same "banker", nothing changed.
regards

edit: Thanks Gizzmoe for sorting this out.
Now back to topic ;)

[Jungman]

After the experience i just had, i woudlnt recommend upping the hitpoints. Least of all on the bulkhead.

Behold, the results of a circular running torpedo

http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/own_torpedo.jpg
This, is what should be left of my engine room. I should have been sunk, but wasn't.

Yup, i had alot of engine damage, but the bulkhead was unscratched, and i had no flooding. All i did, was take the bulkhead hitpoints, and change it from 100, to 400. I used 400 because it seemed logical to make the bulkhead as tough as the compartments in the zones.cfg. Said compartments i changed to 400 hps, because thats what it was in SH3.


I honestly don't think bulkhead hitpoints should be raised past 200, and i mean seriously, look at the damage thats being rendered. Nobody survives that. My boat should be at the bottom of the Java sea right now.

:rotfl:

I would agree. I use to change the HULL value total inside the submarine DAT file to get a decent crush without that happening in SH3.

The bulkhead is something new in SH4, the real overall total Pressure Hull value should be inside the DAT file if it like SH3. That is the number that goes 'lower' with damage. It was what was getting displayed as a perctange of hull integrity in SH3.

[heartc]

I'm not a modder, but wasn't the problem with SHIII everyone was rightfully bitching about when it came out that the Boat was a swimming Tiger tank? I would have thought the number of hitpoints had something to do with that, so it takes me by some surprise that now there's a fuss about having only 25% of the hitpoints in SHIV.
I would think iRL it was always a bad idea to submerge even "just" 20 meters after taking a shell hit or something to the hull...and I thought SHIV is too easy, anyway?
Can you now sink destroyers again by ramming them, or could you already with the stock hitpoints? I never tested that myself.

[joea]

I'm not a modder, but wasn't the problem with SHIII everyone was rightfully bitching about when it came out that the Boat was a swimming Tiger tank? I would have thought the number of hitpoints had something to do with that, so it takes me by some surprise that now there's a fuss about having only 25% of the hitpoints in SHIV.
I would think iRL it was always a bad idea to submerge even "just" 20 meters after taking a shell hit or something to the hull...and I thought SHIV is too easy, anyway?
Can you now sink destroyers again by ramming them, or could you already with the stock hitpoints? I never tested that myself.

QFT excellent point.

[Redwine]

Sorry, it is still there. Wierd. It says the jpg picture is a mask for the trojan horse. Maybe my Antivira virus detector is over the top.


I'm sorry to say, but for me it's still there. The same "banker", nothing changed.
regards

edit: Thanks Gizzmoe for sorting this out.
Now back to topic ;)

Mmmm... it is the first time i hear about a virus can be masked by a .jpg files, it is just a map fo points with determined 8bits colours in each one point.



It´s a false alarm.

I think so... i pass my NOD over it and nothing happens.

I look into my Firefox NoScript and only have subsim.com and a blocked Googlesyndicatin.com, i sopupose it is from the serachbbar engine in my Firefox.

Nothing more...

But i use, Ad-Aware, SpyWrareBlaster, and SpyGuard.

NOD, and AdBlock Plus 0.7.2.4 and NoScript 1.1.4.6.070317 as Firefox Add-ons....

:up:

[Redwine]

I honestly don't think bulkhead hitpoints should be raised past 200, and i mean seriously, look at the damage thats being rendered. Nobody survives that. My boat should be at the bottom of the Java sea right now.

Not sure at all, Ducimus, damage rendered, may be nothing related to the damage received.

Any way a torp must to sink a sub...

[U-Bones]

After the experience i just had, i woudlnt recommend upping the hitpoints. Least of all on the bulkhead.

Behold, the results of a circular running torpedo

http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/own_torpedo.jpg
This, is what should be left of my engine room. I should have been sunk, but wasn't.

Yup, i had alot of engine damage, but the bulkhead was unscratched, and i had no flooding. All i did, was take the bulkhead hitpoints, and change it from 100, to 400. I used 400 because it seemed logical to make the bulkhead as tough as the compartments in the zones.cfg. Said compartments i changed to 400 hps, because thats what it was in SH3.


I honestly don't think bulkhead hitpoints should be raised past 200, and i mean seriously, look at the damage thats being rendered. Nobody survives that. My boat should be at the bottom of the Java sea right now.
:rotfl:

I would agree. I use to change the HULL value total inside the submarine DAT file to get a decent crush without that happening in SH3.

The bulkhead is something new in SH4, the real overall total Pressure Hull value should be inside the DAT file if it like SH3. That is the number that goes 'lower' with damage. It was what was getting displayed as a perctange of hull integrity in SH3.

I thought the sub HULL hitpoints were in the NSS_*.zon file ?
Anyway, I ran with 1800 hp last night, all components had stock HP and armor. I got the unrepairable AA that usually results in recurring damage and the heavy tail when submerging. Interestingly, I no longer got the heavy tail - probably because the flooding threshold % was never reached. I did have reoccuring damage as I went to 200 ft, so I resurfaved and repaired. How does going to 200 ft cause a suddent outbreak of damage to antennae and other non crushable objects ?

I DO NOT think the sub needs to run with x6 hull hp. But it allows you to live longer and make observations about what is happening.

I am thinking about making the AA invunerable and or easily destroyed to see if this is the root of the heavy tail - invisible flooding - and recurring damage. My suspicion is that the bug is related to AA damage.

Another idea is to increase Crit flood % in problem compartments in leiu of upping hp to avoid flooding. I REALLY want to avoid upping HP if at all possible.

[Ducimus]

I thought the sub HULL hitpoints were in the NSS_*.zon file ?

Ordinarly yeah, but in my game i didnt touch those. The bulkhead seems to be acting seperatly.

Here's its block from the equipment.upc file


ID=Bulkhead
NameDisplayable= Bulkhead
FunctionalType= EqFTypeBulkhead
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=Wall
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 200
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Minor Leak, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0.2, 0.6, 0, 1, 1, Large hole, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.5
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.6, 1, 0, 1, 1, Wall breached, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 1


Default is 100 hps, same as 99% of all equipment.

[U-Bones]

I thought the sub HULL hitpoints were in the NSS_*.zon file ?
Ordinarly yeah, but in my game i didnt touch those. The bulkhead seems to be acting seperatly.

Here's its block from the equipment.upc file


ID=Bulkhead
NameDisplayable= Bulkhead
FunctionalType= EqFTypeBulkhead
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=Wall
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 200
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Minor Leak, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0.2, 0.6, 0, 1, 1, Large hole, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.5
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.6, 1, 0, 1, 1, Wall breached, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 1

Default is 100 hps, same as 99% of all equipment.

Ah, there is the bulkhead.

OK, so what happens if you change leak status to anythgn under .75, .75-.90 as a large hole, and .90 up as a breach. I will find out ;)

[Ducimus]

Im not sure what happends if you change those, but i DID find a good method of testing damage on the sub. Tweak your MK14 torpedo to have a 100% chance of being a circular runner, then shoot at a depth of 15 feet or so in the torpedo practice mission of the sub school. Its quick loading, and its a reliable way to incur damage on your sub, allowing you to gauge the results of your tweaking.

One thing ive noticed is, at first, its just the effectied compartment that's suffering. Theres like this chain reaction, and the other compartments, should you submerge again, will knock over like domino's. Also, even if surfaced, if your hit towards the bow, you will eventually be bow heavy. I ended up running that boat in reverse to keep it afloat.

Anyway, it makes a good test scenario.