SH4 compared with SH3

[melin71]

I have both games, and i have played SH3 from day one to now when i have started to play sh4...and i must say..sure.. sh4 look better. tons of bugs. but that did sh3 have from the beginning too. im thinking more of the feeling with the game. and i dont have at all the same feeling that im in a sub as in sh3. why im not complet sure. missing compartment are of course one issu. one issue are no AA for the grafic (not anti air LOL) that destroy some of the feeling for me. but that is a bugg what i have understand. the way the radio are used in the game to destroy a little. and i dont mean the message. but..how you get them. that papper and so in sh3 did the feeling that you was at you desk in your capteints compartment and did read it. this small stuff that are in sh4..no good for me. The subs looks all the same. i dont see that i have change subclass. if im not in S class of course. small clock there and there and some more red light dont do the trick for me. if im in a IXD2 class...it was BIG even in the commandroom. but something are missing for me in sh4..i can only not put my finger on it. of course did the grey wolf mod the sh3 more fun. it may be so that a gigantisk mod like grey wolf to sh4 will make this game what i want in feeling...problem are...i cant put my finger on it..something is missing.


and sorry for my bad enlish.

[Hitman]

Ummm .... 10 lines of text and no reference to the most important change: US subs in the Pacific vs. UBoots in the Atlantic :hmm:

I might of course be wrong, but my approach has never been the "Sh3 vs. SH4" comparison, but instead: Get SH4, load it, see it: What do I like/don't like?

SH3 is a great game for me, sure, but hell it's a game about UBoots! I don't like to draw comparsons between both because it ends up being a german subs vs. US subs thing, and that is NOT the idea....

Let me make a littel suggestion: Forget SH3, load up SH4 again and just put your mind in the Pacific. You are an american, a lucky bastard in command of a crappy S18 sub and the japanese are invading Philippines after a coward surprise attack against your beloved and paradisiac Hawaiian islands....go out there and blow them!! SH3? What is that? :D ;)

[Antrodemus]

go out there and blow them!!

:huh:

[melin71]

Ummm .... 10 lines of text and no reference to the most important change: US subs in the Pacific vs. UBoots in the Atlantic :hmm:

I might of course be wrong, but my approach has never been the "Sh3 vs. SH4" comparison, but instead: Get SH4, load it, see it: What do I like/don't like?

SH3 is a great game for me, sure, but hell it's a game about UBoots! I don't like to draw comparsons between both because it ends up being a german subs vs. US subs thing, and that is NOT the idea....

Let me make a littel suggestion: Forget SH3, load up SH4 again and just put your mind in the Pacific. You are an american, a lucky bastard in command of a crappy S18 sub and the japanese are invading Philippines after a coward surprise attack against your beloved and paradisiac Hawaiian islands....go out there and blow them!! SH3? What is that? :D ;)


you may in fact find that thing...im still in a german boat =) ...

[roguetrooper]

people why not do what i have done install both games and if you feel like being german play sh3 and if you feel like playing as an american play sh4. they are both good games and each have there own good points and bad points.

[SharpShin]

Nobody outside of the US wants to be an American.

[oritpro]

Nobody outside of the US wants to be an American.

Right, that's why we have such a large number of immigrants (legal and illegal) entering the country every single day.

[SharpShin]

And every one of them are no longer outside the US...

Obviously I was referring to this game, I thought that went without saying.

Take a look at the interest at getting a mod to bring this back to the Atlantic with German subs.

I wasn't being totally serious either but I guess there is one of em everywhere ya go.

[heartc]

Nobody outside of the US wants to be an American.

Whatever.

[Ducimus]

There are alot of subtle enhancements to the game. You wouldnt realize it until you start digging around in the files. Sh4 is having a rocky start, but give it time and it will grow. One of the biggest enhancements is acutally the core campaign game, which is ultimatly the core mechanic in gameplay.

Its faster loading, it takes less overhead, (meaning higher TC is possible), career games seem more fleshed out, and the gameplay itself is more dynamic, allowing a bit more then just patrol a grid for 24 hours.

[Hitman]

Its faster loading

Looks like the .dds format for textures is the main reason for that. :hmm: GWX caused nearly eternal load times on older PCs because of using so many hi-res textures (tga), and I bet if SH4 would use tgas it would take even longer that GWX to load. But I doubt that the graphics engine has been much improved otherwise in terms of load speeds. The game engine however has been clearly improved in that 4096 time compression is now possible to get in the same PC that was struggling before with 2048 in SH3.

[darius359au]

Oh for.... lets not turn this into a U.S is good or bad arguement ,Im so fed up reading crap like that - The OP was talking about the differences between SH3 and SH4 and the feeling he gets from them , so lets stick to that.

[oritpro]

I have both games, and i have played SH3 from day one to now when i have started to play sh4...and i must say..sure.. sh4 look better. tons of bugs. but that did sh3 have from the beginning too. im thinking more of the feeling with the game. and i dont have at all the same feeling that im in a sub as in sh3. why im not complet sure. missing compartment are of course one issu. one issue are no AA for the grafic (not anti air LOL) that destroy some of the feeling for me. but that is a bugg what i have understand. the way the radio are used in the game to destroy a little. and i dont mean the message. but..how you get them. that papper and so in sh3 did the feeling that you was at you desk in your capteints compartment and did read it. this small stuff that are in sh4..no good for me. The subs looks all the same. i dont see that i have change subclass. if im not in S class of course. small clock there and there and some more red light dont do the trick for me. if im in a IXD2 class...it was BIG even in the commandroom. but something are missing for me in sh4..i can only not put my finger on it. of course did the grey wolf mod the sh3 more fun. it may be so that a gigantisk mod like grey wolf to sh4 will make this game what i want in feeling...problem are...i cant put my finger on it..something is missing.


and sorry for my bad enlish.
I understand what you mean about something missing in the game. SH4 doesn't convey what it "feels" like to be in a WWII submarine quite the way SH3 does. For one, there is no real interaction with the crew and they don't always respond verbally when an order is given.

Another thing that really bugs me is the sonar station. Have you ever watched the sonar operator? You see a guy standing there blocking the view to the sonar screen and the only indication that he is really doing anything is the rotating crank; you can't see the sonar station at all! But what really bugs me is this,; when the engines are running, the sonar dude always skips past the stern end of the ship which is normal. The problem is, he also does this when the engines are completely turned off! That is not normal. When I turn off the engines it is so I can hear better especially behind my sub. So it would appear that the sonar operator is completely skipping about 45 degrees of space behind the sub under all conditions.

The radar is a complete train wreck. I was receiving radar contact reports on a sub that had no radar! I saw somebody else post this in another thread but I have personally experienced it as well.

All in all the atmosphere in SHIV is lacking (IMO) and it appears to be caused by a lot of little problems with the game.

[Ducimus]

Its faster loading

Looks like the .dds format for textures is the main reason for that.

In part. The other part is that by all apperances, the campaign files are spilt up. The game only calls upon the files it needs baesd on the time period, not all of them in one lump file like sh3. This means less processing time is being used. Im conjecturing both ingame, and in load times.

And then theres the world itself. It scrolls side to side without a hitch. One seamless world. Not so in SH3. And has anyone taken a good look at all our old haunts in SH3? The locations ARE there. complete with ports.

[Garion]

I Play both, sometimes I am a Uboat skipper, other times I am a US Fleet Boat Skipper. :D

Sh3 I find to be more claustrophobic, sitting in me little Uboat tryingto sneak through the English Channel or penetrating the Irish Sea.:o ooer !

SH4 Is more open, a nice roomy Fleet Boat and Vast distances to cover, nice senery and quick burger and coke to wash it down, just hits the spot.

Two sub sims, two differnt theatres, many. many differences, comparisons aplenty, but each just as good in their own right. (at least SH4 will be after its been modded and patched :up:)


Cheers
Garion
Scary Hairy Scotsman
Kilts are a bad idea in Submarines, wot with all the ladders :oops:

[Iron Budokan]

Someone once remarked there was a "sterile" feel to SH4 and I agree with that. I never had that feeling with SH3, even stock and buggy SH3.

Dunno if it's the UI or the limited interaction within the boat or what it is...but I feel disconnected from the sub in SH4. Maybe it's just me....

[Ducimus]

No, its not just you. Here's what i think. The crew seems like its a living crew for many reasons, but the thing is, we dont really interact wih them. So we have this living crew, and were basically outsiders looking in. I think this stems from the fact that we can't click on them like in SH3, have them turn and look at us with the expression of expecting an order like they do in SH3.

[Platapus]

people why not do what i have done install both games and if you feel like being german play sh3 and if you feel like playing as an american play sh4. they are both good games and each have there own good points and bad points.

Well if you are going to bring logic and reason to this thread .......

:)

[XanderF]

SH4 Is more open, a nice roomy Fleet Boat and Vast distances to cover, nice senery and quick burger and coke to wash it down, just hits the spot.


Hmmm...burger and coke or brätwurst with sauerkraut and Rauchbier.

Hmmm...tough choice...errr...NOT. :arrgh!:

[corvette k225]

I always like the atlantic side of the war,I bet the sale's of SHIV will be half the amount of SHIII, when you think of subs of wwII I always think of the U-BOATS
and the large convoys of the war. I think SHIV has more bug's in it then SHIII,and that as far as world wide sales,UBISOFT will not make a US subsim again! That would be ok with me.:D I also would think that the DEV Team would have learned alot from SHIII, the folks at GWX shure did.:up:

[TheSatyr]

If SH4 sells half of what SH3 sold then there WON'T be another DC or SH...Pacific or Atlantic. Endo story.

[Ducimus]

I always like the atlantic side of the war,I bet the sale's of SHIV will be half the amount of SHIII, when you think of subs of wwII I always think of the U-BOATS


I swear, people seem to be under this false illusion that nothing ever happened in the pacific. Most of the past times that people like in SH3 (sinking subs, capital warships, raiding harbors, and the like) acutally happened more in the pacific and rarely in the atlantic. You know the US submarine force only accounted for 1.6% of the Navy in the pacific, yet was responsible for 54% of the tonnage sunk in that theater.

[melin71]

when i started this thred it was not about the bugs. we all know they are there. it was about the feeling. and some of you may be on right track. the crew, and less intreaktive with them. and i miss the funtcion that i could take a crew members place in the command as in sh3. As i often did with first office under DC attacks. miss that badly.

then air craft attacks...are like sh3..but in 1945...all the time =)

[ryuzu]

I always like the atlantic side of the war,I bet the sale's of SHIV will be half the amount of SHIII, when you think of subs of wwII I always think of the U-BOATS
and the large convoys of the war. I think SHIV has more bug's in it then SHIII,and that as far as world wide sales,UBISOFT will not make a US subsim again! That would be ok with me.:D I also would think that the DEV Team would have learned alot from SHIII, the folks at GWX shure did.:up:

I don't think so. All things being equal, SH4 will almost certainly out sell SH3 simply because more Americans will buy it. The only thing I can see getting in the way of that outcome are bugs that cut the life of SH4 short.

r.

[Hitman]

In part. The other part is that by all apperances, the campaign files are spilt up. The game only calls upon the files it needs baesd on the time period, not all of them in one lump file like sh3. This means less processing time is being used. Im conjecturing both ingame, and in load times.


Yes and no. At least, as far as SH3 concerns. I did long ago following test: I started a campaign patrol from base and noted how long it took the game to load. Then I went out, deleted the contents of the campaign layers and loaded again the same campaign patrol start date, on an empty world, i.e. only my U-Boot was in the game. Guess what? The difference in load time was nearly unnoticeable!

So I concluded that what was causing the best part of the load time was pressing all graphics and animations into the video & computer RAM.

But I might be wrong in my conclussions, of course.:up:

[codmander]

sh3 had no where near as many bugs :hmm: a few yea but from this view looks like sh4 is plagued with em 1 thing is certain I am glad i didnt buy it for 50$ becuase i be broke:cry: on the list but in about a year or so when the final verdict is out either sh4 gets swept away like sh2 or it gets fixed proper personally I think they left too much out in the imersion area I tap on my chief shoulder all the time in sh3 :rock:

I have both games, and i have played SH3 from day one to now when i have started to play sh4...and i must say..sure.. sh4 look better. tons of bugs. but that did sh3 have from the beginning too. im thinking more of the feeling with the game. and i dont have at all the same feeling that im in a sub as in sh3. why im not complet sure. missing compartment are of course one issu. one issue are no AA for the grafic (not anti air LOL) that destroy some of the feeling for me. but that is a bugg what i have understand. the way the radio are used in the game to destroy a little. and i dont mean the message. but..how you get them. that papper and so in sh3 did the feeling that you was at you desk in your capteints compartment and did read it. this small stuff that are in sh4..no good for me. The subs looks all the same. i dont see that i have change subclass. if im not in S class of course. small clock there and there and some more red light dont do the trick for me. if im in a IXD2 class...it was BIG even in the commandroom. but something are missing for me in sh4..i can only not put my finger on it. of course did the grey wolf mod the sh3 more fun. it may be so that a gigantisk mod like grey wolf to sh4 will make this game what i want in feeling...problem are...i cant put my finger on it..something is missing.


and sorry for my bad enlish.

[ref]

Yes and no. At least, as far as SH3 concerns. I did long ago following test: I started a campaign patrol from base and noted how long it took the game to load. Then I went out, deleted the contents of the campaign layers and loaded again the same campaign patrol start date, on an empty world, i.e. only my U-Boot was in the game. Guess what? The difference in load time was nearly unnoticeable!

So I concluded that what was causing the best part of the load time was pressing all graphics and animations into the video & computer RAM.

But I might be wrong in my conclussions, of course.:up:

I have a different point of view, I startup sh3 a lot when testing, and I have a clear rnd/scr/lnd layer set, with it the game loads a mission in 30" compared to the 4/5 min. when loading the full stuff, it also helps a lot (the reduced campaign) with high time compression in SH4.

Ref

[Ducimus]

Yes and no. At least, as far as SH3 concerns. I did long ago following test: I started a campaign patrol from base and noted how long it took the game to load. Then I went out, deleted the contents of the campaign layers and loaded again the same campaign patrol start date, on an empty world, i.e. only my U-Boot was in the game. Guess what? The difference in load time was nearly unnoticeable!

So I concluded that what was causing the best part of the load time was pressing all graphics and animations into the video & computer RAM.

But I might be wrong in my conclussions, of course.:up:

I have a different point of view, I startup sh3 a lot when testing, and I have a clear rnd/scr/lnd layer set, with it the game loads a mission in 30" compared to the 4/5 min. when loading the full stuff, it also helps a lot (the reduced campaign) with high time compression in SH4.

Ref


exactly.

[Greentimbers]

I play both, and I like each of them. :up:

[Hitman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman
Yes and no. At least, as far as SH3 concerns. I did long ago following test: I started a campaign patrol from base and noted how long it took the game to load. Then I went out, deleted the contents of the campaign layers and loaded again the same campaign patrol start date, on an empty world, i.e. only my U-Boot was in the game. Guess what? The difference in load time was nearly unnoticeable!

So I concluded that what was causing the best part of the load time was pressing all graphics and animations into the video & computer RAM.

But I might be wrong in my conclussions, of course.:up:


I have a different point of view, I startup sh3 a lot when testing, and I have a clear rnd/scr/lnd layer set, with it the game loads a mission in 30" compared to the 4/5 min. when loading the full stuff, it also helps a lot (the reduced campaign) with high time compression in SH4.

Ref



exactly.


Interesting :hmm:

As stated above, I did the test long ago and I can't remember well if it was by a time when Sh3 was 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4, but I'm positive it was a stock, unmodded game, with graphics settings to low.
May be your tests were done with a much heavier set of campaign/land/scr files?

Anyway, I have never been in-deep into SH3 modding unlike you both, so you are for sure right in your statements. :up: