I keep hearing about " Other games are buggy when they come out "

[fastfed]

I have not posted anything negative about this game, I actually just packed the game up and put it away till maybe things get better in the future..

What I am curious about though, because I do rad the forums, is I keep hearing about how " I have never bought a game that didn't have the amount of bugs, just like this game "

So name them please..

In the past few years I have bought and played

WorldofWarcraft ( Out of the gate the game played fine and nothing major to make the game unplayable, now mind you its a pay to play so I am sure that would be a huge reason )

Battlefield,and part 2, game came with NO bugs, again none that made the game unplayable or atleast as bad as SH4.

Halflife 1 and 2, again same thing, no real bugs.

Even SH3, I just reinstalled the game and played it stock for a little, the game was still playable.

Company of Hero's,bug free.
LMAO!! Even WW2 online right out of the gate was more playable IMO.

I can sit here all day of all the games my hard earned money went towards, and I NEVER not even once thought of not playing a game due to bugs, but sorry to say SH4 is the first game I even decided to put down.

I hope this game does get fixed, because for me to put this game down really means its way to horrible, considering I love subgames more than anything else..

But I am curious guys, what other games are you all comparing this horrible bug infested game to?

[Keelbuster]

Most games have a playable release. It's one of those things that most developers aim for.

[Jace11]

I agree, this title SH4 takes the already unacceptable practice of releasing bugged products early to a whole new level. The game (or mod - as it seems to me) is half finished.

I can't think of any games in a worse condition... Not one..

TotalWar series are bad, GRAW was bad, HoI2 was buggy, but SH4 is a mess, a shocking mess, I am angry, disappointed but I won't be buying any more Ubi titles for a while.

I mean, they make a strategic decision money vs quality, they clearly chose money in this case, not even a happy medium, so future Ubi titles may well be similar. I was thinking about buying the next Brothers in Arms game... No way now...

They can get away with it a few times, but then their reputation will become sullied. Most people, including myself, expect and tolerate a certain number of bugs that slip through testing.

But this game looks like it was never tested. The photoshoped preview screens made me suspicious and the week before release I asked here about the resolution, everyone said "yeah its gonna run at high-res" hmmmm they were mislead.. on purpose methinks

So disappointed, feel so betrayed... its a shame cause the atmosphere of SH3 is there in SH4 it just gets ruined by all the bugs... Such a waste of effort..

[mookiemookie]

Neverwinter Nights 2 was a mess and also had a patch that came out the day after release day. Knights of the Old Republic 2 was ridiculously buggy. Battlefield 2 was horribly buggy. It happens. Get over it.

Also think about the games you've named off there. Big budget games that will sell millions of copies. Think about what SH4 is. A niche market product. Of course they're going to release those games as bug free as possible...3 million people complaining about a buggy game hurts your sales more than 300,000 people complaining about a buggy game will hurt your sales. Simple economics.

The simple fact is that as sub sim fans, we don't have a lot of choice. I'm just happy to have the game out there, buggy or not. Your only choice is this or nothing. I'll take this.

[Bahger]

The BATTLEFIELD series is infamous for its bugs but it's well-supported with patches. You are the only person I've ever encountered (both pro- and con- the game) who has never used the words "Battlefield" and "bug" in the same sentence. Frequently.

The relaunch of FALCON as ALLIED FORCE required tremendous patience as the devs labored over bug-squishing. We are now ten patches in and it's great.

GHOST RECON ADVANCED WARFARE was released to howls of protest over buggy AI and mission glitches. Five patches later, the game seems to work just fine.

Right now, I'm playing S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and enjoying the heck out of it depite bugs so serious that, until a patch arrived this week, I couldn't even quicksave. There is still work to be done.

Here's an obscure one (to US audiences, anyway): BRIAN LARA CRICKET 2007: Promising game with buggy catching dynamics requiring a patch.

Having said all that, I've shelved SHIV until the TDC is fixed. Which it will be, I reckon, partly thanks to Neal and the community here.

[Immacolata]

LMAO!! Even WW2 online right out of the gate was more playable IMO.
Battlefield 2 and then this? Right there I think you lost any credibility, and your argument is just a thinly veiled pointing of fingers. BF2 and ESPECIALLY WW2 were rather buggy and BF2 actually got more broke with each patch.

[sea enemy]

Age of Sail 2 was buggier than a baitshop. And, the sad part of it is, it was NEVER fixed...I've seen alpha versions of games that were in a more complete state.

After Age of Sail 2, nothing else really seems that bad.

[DaMaGe007]

Black and white 1+2
X2, X3 Reunion (X3 was worse than X2 just)

Both got patches on or around realease, and were flamed heavily.

Atlease X2,X3 eventually got finished, I wont buy another Black and White game.

[Ark]

Fastfed, if you think SHIV is buggier than WWII Online v1.0, than you did not play WWII Online v1.0. :doh:

WWII Online was the worst mess I have ever seen at release. What keeps me playing is the great support by CRS, the fairly steady stream of patches/feature updates, and the community.

[Sldghammer]

I gotta agree with Immacolata.

WWIIOnline out of the gate was a POS that almost sank the company. They sold IIRC 50000+ copies in shops and the vast majority were returned. I think they had to extend the "trial" period by 6 months until they got it somewhat playable.

Does SH4 meet the expectations of the hard core simmers? It's getting there.

Is is playable out of the box for the average player who probably only wants to go out and blow up stuff. Yup.

Will it be greatly improved soon? I think so so I'm not giving up on it.

[Jace11]

Ha, at least Age of Sail 2 had quite nice graphics for the time...

I agree it was bugged and Akela never fixed it but it was alright to play for me anyway, I did end up shelving it though due to lack of depth.

I don't think it is as bad as SH4 though..

[fastfed]

LMAO!! Even WW2 online right out of the gate was more playable IMO.

Battlefield 2 and then this? Right there I think you lost any credibility, and your argument is just a thinly veiled pointing of fingers. BF2 and ESPECIALLY WW2 were rather buggy and BF2 actually got more broke with each patch. Go away, troll.

Go away troll?? I might of been exaggerating a little with WW2online.. They still haven't fixed that game..

I am 27 years old and have been playing games since Pole position on attari and Silent Service on my commodore..

The bottom line is I have never put a game away after buying it until SH4, I don't know what bugs you're talking about with BF2, because I played the game from day one all the way until the many patches after it. I didn't notice the bugs until reading forums and the readme's on the patches..

Nothing has even been such a disappointment until SH4 and thats the truth!

[fastfed]

Fastfed, if you think SHIV is buggier than WWII Online v1.0, than you did not play WWII Online v1.0. :doh:

WWII Online was the worst mess I have ever seen at release. What keeps me playing is the great support by CRS, the fairly steady stream of patches/feature updates, and the community.

Fellow WW2 onliner???

I will PM you, I was joking about that one, how is that game these days? Played about 6 months ago last for a trial..

[Faamecanic]

Fastfed, if you think SHIV is buggier than WWII Online v1.0, than you did not play WWII Online v1.0. :doh:

WWII Online was the worst mess I have ever seen at release. What keeps me playing is the great support by CRS, the fairly steady stream of patches/feature updates, and the community.

Fellow WW2 onliner???

I will PM you, I was joking about that one, how is that game these days? Played about 6 months ago last for a trial..

Another WWIIOL'er here..... 14e Regiment de Parachutest..... 2nd year playing and I will tell you even as recently as the last major patch over christmas holiday, CRS really stepped in it (10 fps, server crashes...) 1.26 is MUCH better and 1.27 is shaping up.

[Ark]

Fastfed, if you think SHIV is buggier than WWII Online v1.0, than you did not play WWII Online v1.0. :doh:

WWII Online was the worst mess I have ever seen at release. What keeps me playing is the great support by CRS, the fairly steady stream of patches/feature updates, and the community.

Fellow WW2 onliner???

I will PM you, I was joking about that one, how is that game these days? Played about 6 months ago last for a trial..

Yep, been playing since release. :arrgh!:

31st Wrecking Crew. :)

I can't remember how the game was 6 months ago (it all blends together, hehe), but it is still a LOT of fun for me.

[tater]

Pre-day one ww2oler here as well. release ww2ol was version 0.64 or so as I recall. It's come a long way.

tater

[fastfed]

I loved that game because of the flight sim, but it was pretty weak last time I played it..

I told myself I WILL!!! Get into the game AGAIN when you can enter and leave vehicles, Tanks,planes,boats..

I understand a tanker is a tanker, but I should be able to jump out if my tracks arre broken.

[modisch]

I'm not going to say "unplayable" bugs... because most people disagree on how bad something has to be to be unplayable.

But in terms of "significant" bugs that affect core gameplay, a few come to mind.

Raven Shield (the third Rainbow 6 game):

Also by UBI. Years after the release of the game, the notorious "nade bug" was still unfixed and the SDK, which was promised, never, ever was released. The nade bug basically meant when you pulled out a grenade to throw, it got stuck and you couldn't remove it, throw it (it wouldn't explode in your hand, at least), switch to another weapon, interact with objects (ladders ,doors)... you were just a walking target. Another bug that persisted for a long time was in multiplayer where it looked like you were shooting, but it never registered with the server or other players. Your only indicator that something was wrong was your ammo count didn't change. So you could open up on someone and think they should be dead... but nope, they're fine, no actual bullets fired. In fact, this game was so buggy (and long after release) that most leagues and ladders had a 30 second "bug" redo... up to 30 seconds into a round, if you experienced a bug, you could call it out and get a restart. Everyone had a sort of "pre flight checklist" to run through to make sure any of a number of bugs wasn't affecting them. Bug redos often resulted in doubling the length of matches...

Battlefield 2:

The "red friendlies" bug. This bug took a LONG time to be fixed (actually, I don't know that it was ever fixed). Teammates would appear as enemies on the minimap and with red (indicating enemy) text overhead. Resulted in a LOT of teamkills. BF2, in fact, had so many bugs that the devs had to hold press conferences saying Bf2142 would be better. Yet some issues that were around back in BF1942 are still present, like the grinding server lag when moving titans or aircraft carriers. In 2142, rather than fix it, they simply made titans immobile after the shields went down (when most people were fighting on them).


A small list of other games that were basically rushed to market and failed as a result:

- Asheron's Call 2
- Soldner
- Operation: Flashpoint
- Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (most of the bugs were fixed by the community patches after the developer went bankrupt)


So the better question isn't, was this game rushed to market... It was. There's no denying that. Just going through the files and seeing the volume of stuff left from sh3 which is no longer used... and the multitude of complaints due to bugs and shortcomings... shows they rushed to market. But the question should be, where will it go from here? Some games are rushed to market and die as a result. Some games survive despite their bugs. And some games get patched and community support and turn into real gems (anarchy online, even though I'm not much of a fan, is DRASTICALLY better than it was at release and has a very good community).

I'm concerned based on the track record of Ubi that rather than patch and build on community support, they'll just release a couple of inadequate patches and move on to a sequel. This is the pattern they showed with many games. The rainbow 6 series is an example. Despite very loyal community following, after the unfixed bugs of Raven Shield they released Lockdown, which basically was dead on arrival... and then followed less than a year later with Vegas. Along the way, become more arcade-y and console-y. The upside is, this game is moddable (as we can see by the thriving mod community), albeit less easily than SH3, and there is no console version.

So.... where is the game going? Too soon to tell. I just hope it doesn't end up leaving the gamers high and dry.

-m

[Mud]

My first computer game was bug free , Pong :rock:

Mud

[macky]

I loved bf1942, great game, had bugs but no biggies. Didnt like bf2, couldnt get into it (like my ww2 theme) but it was still playable.

Have to agree tho with the op, most games have bugs, yeah, but very few I have played (or wanted to buy) did not have as many as this.

However, I also think the problem is the enhanced graphics of this game which has added to the fustration. Yes, the other games puished the boat out, but perhaps sh4 pushed the boat out too much for the majority with medium to low systems.

The game bugs could have been resolved by good beta testing and its not an escuse to say the management pushed the game out too early, its just not an excuse. Its just bad management.

SH4 will get better as more high end systems appear - i know there are some high end problems, but nowhere near the amount of the lower ones. Truth is it would have been better to wait. Halflife 2 is the classic example, thought it was never coming out! But when it did, boy was it worth it. Only problem there was the length, but hey, we cant have it all;)

You can blame the corporation, the devs or whoever. Truth is everyone must share the blame. But all we can do now is wait...and wait...and hope:doh:

[WFGood]

I can name two WWII Online and Pacific Storm. They were bad, but they also managed to redeem themselves through patches for the most part.

[Ragtag]

Talking about "bugfree" games released, Command & Conquer 3 should be an example for every developer on how polished a game should be when released. This game has to be the most polished game i've taken right out of the box since i began playing games in 1979 :)
Yes, 2 patches has been released for it but check the patches readme files...it's just smaller issues fixed and jesus they fixed them within the week. 2 patches in a week. That's what i call REAL support.:)

[P_Funk]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 was ridiculously buggy. Another Ubi game. In fact is everyone aware of the fact that they rushed Obsidian so much in this game that they had to remove an entire PLANET? After release the modding community found huge stores of game files that had just been cut from the game: voice edits from character development, rooms, an entire part of the story arc missing. All so it could be rushed to shelves. And to this day Kotor 2 fans feel cheated by it.

Kotor 2 has 2 possible endings. There were supposed to be 13. Think about it.:nope:

[malkuth74]

Black And White 2 (POS still to this day)
The Movies (read forums, had alot of same issues SHIV have)
Star Trek Legacy (dont even ask)
Pacific Storm (awful AI, only 1 patch so far and didn't fix AI)
Midevil Total war II (AI lackluster, Two handed sword bug still not fixed ETC ETC)
BattleField 2 You so proudly bost about
Patch 1.1 Readme

Patch v1.01
================================================== ======================

Fixed an issue that caused the Multiplayer Browser to become unresponsive.

Fixed an issue where some game controls were not available to be rebound within the Options menu.

Fixed an issue with increasing performance degradation on servers.

Fixed a problem with shader caching on client/host : after the first
map in a rotation, shaders would be loaded on the fly during gameplay.

Fixed a crash with rebinding LMB

Fixed a problem that caused environment mapping to not appear on
reflective surfaces.

Fixed a crash that happened when a client picks up a kit that doesn't
exist anymore.

Fixed a problem with AI when the game was paused for a long time: bots
would become unresponsive and also shoot more accurately.

LOD distances tweaked on certain objects.

I stoped playing after Patch 1.4 (sure thier are more now.)

World Of warcraft Patch notes (IE ITS AT 2.0)
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/


And by the way SHIV is playable out of the box just like all the others.

[Forlorn]

With the widespread of internet and the whole industry looking for money I see that the quality of release versions is getting lower and lower. Companies can release an unfinished piece of software - since patches could be easily made public and available for everybody. Depending on the amount of sold copies they can fix something or not.

I bought NWN2 when it was released. I expected it to be unfinished but also expected quick fixes. All the balance stuff with that content of NWN2 is really complex and probably most of the unbalancing stuff will probably found and noticed by the thousands of hardcore gamers. No problem with that. Was is playable and stable? YES. edit: especially with thousands of different objects

Falcon4 or Falcon Allied Force - I expected issues on FalconAF, since tons of opensource changes were included in a company product and calculating of 500,000 objects in realtime is really hard work. Was is playable and stable? YES.

Gothic III - I expected issues from complexity... and from Gothic II. ;) Was is playable and stable? NO. Current patch size is about 1GB, but not released yet after a fix small patch right after release. Is it playable now? NO. After months and millions sold copies. :( I never buy Gothic ABX again.

Anno 1701 - I expected issues from complexity. No issues at all. Working fine even with a small miny patch it works fine out of the box. :D

SH4 - actually just a 20 more new models, a new engine ( but that's actually just an upgrade to 2004 tec ) - I didn't expect that many issues. Stable? YES. Playable? Sort of (if you mark your "A" with a big red X). To me SH4 is just a replacement of the theatre, especially when you look on the scheme of the files etc. Most models are available in the internet for free or a small fee. That's why the SH4 vs SH3 come up again and again. There shouldn't be year 2005 errors again.

[minsc_tdp]

LMAO!! Even WW2 online right out of the gate was more playable IMO.

Now that's a low blow. Can't say I disagree, but a low blow.

It's hard to compare FPS bugs to this sort of game. Especially not the level of HL2/COH/WOW which are much, much larger projects.

Hopefully Ubi will step up to the plate and resolve this.

[RedHammer]

all TW games, for me, have been just.. wonderful from version 1.0, never had A SINGLE problem with them. The only of theese games I have upgraded to newest patch is Rome Total War, so that I can play online with most other people.

GRAW, to me, was running like a CHARM, no lagg or anything, it`s smooth as glass.
Rainbow Six Vegas.. I went as far as never patching it, to avoid loosing certain visual effects.

Stalker? Runs like a clock, never updated. Battlefield 2, perfect from day one.

Same with Pacific Storm and Silent Hunter 3, which I am still running at., yep, 1.0..

Battlestations Midway.. A huuuuge disaster, after 2 mins of playing the game is completely lagging, then i have to click esc button to get the menu up, then esc button again to resume, it goes smooth. I cant believe they havent even patched it yet??? I`m not the only one with that problem.

Armed Assault.. It has to be the most.. I never even.. Ok il put it straight, the graphics sucks utterly, even Stalker runs just as smooth with just as much landscape and even yet TONS better graphics, not a single glitch. But Armed Assault.. just because some Bloom and a little AA.. its ugly. laggs. and I have tons of bugs with it, cannot even go into a APC?? whats that about :S

Call of Duty 2.. Relatively bug free game.. But put on a little AA and a little more textures? LAGG FEST

1701 AD.. please.. dont talk about it..



Silent Hunter 4: Wolfes of the Pacific. It`s a medium range buggy game. a few obvious bugs, but in return, those bugs are so immensily and incredibly annoying.. Sure, it can be played. But would be an advantage to clear all obvious bugs in the first patch? But then again.. yeah.. alot of time would surpass until that happens, etc etc. Let me just conclude with: It is still in my dvd-rom..



S! to all

Your friend in the Pacific

RH

[Zengaze]

The original Poster stated that he was 27 and in all his time he has never seen a buggier game, well i am 29 and apart from my time in service (r/l FFL) I have been a gamer my whole adult life. And whilst i agree there are serious "game hurting" bugs in this release i will also answer the challenge to his demand and point out ONE other; X3.

The reason bugs seem greater in this game is that it is a sim and simmers tend to be perfection freaks. THIS GAME WILL ACHIEVE OUR EXPECTATIONS. Stay the course, support the genre. :up:

[swash]

Fighting Steel was horrible at release. The best feature was the 15 minute auto save so the whole battle wasn't a total loss when the game crashed or locked up.

Gunship II had issues I never got around to solving. Twas back in the days of 14.4 modems and the internet wasn't what it was today to just go download a patch.

Within the past couple of years, I've shelved Pacific Fighters and Lock On due to bugs, even after patches. Both UBI games.

Not a game, but Windows 95 almost drove me bonkers with all the bugs, lockups and crashes:doh:

also:

B-17 The Mighty 8th
Destroyer Command
Fleet Command
Sub Command

SH4 was released ready or not for the first business quarter of 2007. I'm sure if the programmers had the extra time to polish it more they would have. Business is business. But after getting Fighting Steel the day of release, I'd be totally suprised at any new sim or game that hit the racks bug free at this point.

PS... hi guys. My first post.

[StandingCow]

I gotta tell ya.. I don't think ANY games are released without bugs, and most are very obvious, things they absolutly must have found during testing, but didn't want to wait on.

BF2 had tons of bugs, in fact one big one still exists.. the friendly team members being red...

[Ilpalazzo]

omfg modisch reminded me of soldner. That was THE absolute worst POS I had ever tried to play. Oh god I could probably go on but that is a different conversation. I wonder what ever became of it? Huge let down as it did sound cool before it was released.

Pretty bad trend though. Maybe it is just me and the games I happen to play, but lately (maybe last 3 years?) many of the new games I have played were really buggy upon release. In my whole life though very few games have been so buggy that I just gave up on them. That being said it is obvious that sh4 was rushed for release, but they do seem to be working hard on it and that's a good thing.

Lucky for ubisoft there are like no other subsims out there and I really want a new one so... Now if somebody could just dominate a certain niche by releasing a nice ww1 combat flight sim...Somebody do it!!!! Lol I'm tired i hope this post didn't come out dumb.

[Bahger]

Come to think about it, just about the only game I ever played that was fully-formed out of the box and needed no patching was BROTHERS IN ARMS and its sequel. Did anyone play that? Great game and very, very well made.

[Skweetis]

My first computer game was bug free , Pong :rock:

Mud

Lucky you. Mine wouldn't turn on when the power went out and had to use candles.

[Jace11]

Soldner... I remember the demo yuck...

I played C&C3 demo was pretty polished but not my scene.

I too shelved Lock-On and Destroyer Command due to bugs...

Damn Ubisoft, I will not be buying GRAW2. Once bitten twice shy...
I think if they push the limits much further their reputation may suffer in the PC market.

[nfitzsimmons]

Flight Sim X, Microsoft Train Simulator, Oblivion, Battlestations: Midway, for starters.

[9th_cow]

havent played a bug free pc game in many a year, EQII probably came closest, and im not paying £10 a month for SHIV :)

i think the devs for unreal and quake, half life are the only ones who are allowed to "release when finished"
everyone else just has to get that crap out there and start the sequal.

still i expect problems with games, but SHIV has a few too many for comfort.
first patch i ever got was for sensi soccer. :) thats going back some ways.

not like releasing half assed games is new.

actually im glad i have GRAW 1 and 2 on my 360. i remember all the problems when i used to play those kinds of games on my pc.
these days i havent got the time to sit and mod games for 33 hours before i play, wich is a shame but still. at least its one thing i dont have to worry about these days.

[stinger503]

But this game looks like it was never tested.

I can agree with this. I mean how can you miss a bug like the clipboard load bug? That would be like if it took half an hour for Halo to load the Pause Menu!

[Antrodemus]

My first computer game was bug free , Pong :rock:

Mud

Sorry, but I have to correct you there... that ball should've been round. They messed up, big time.

[Sharkfood]

Dear Fastfed,


What do you understand after reading the comments so far?I tell you what i understand (and i think what game companies understand):

No matter how much you rush a game,no matter how many the bugs,it's ok!Because people are so used to them now,that they have learnt to accept paying for a product ,that if it was ANYTHING ELSE than a PC game,they would ask their money back.Of course you can't do that with PC games ,because of the law of the jungle that exists in this sector.

I hear ya!I had a Commodore too.Ah,the old times,where "patch" was an unknown word...(yes,much simpler games,yet companies were much smaller too,relying on a very small market,but respecting the customer,probably exactly because the customer was precious).

Human is a creature driven by habbits.Make him used to a situation and he will never complain again.They could even sell unfinished books and you would see that people would still buy them ,waiting for the author to release the final chapter as "patch".

Why would a company respect the customer,when the customer doesn't respect himself?Ubi only watches the cash flow.As long as it's at expected levels,there is nothing wrong with releasing half finished games.And the majority of people have no problem with it!It has become a competition of who has played the buggiest game!LOL!How insane can that be? :rotfl: When SH 5 will come out full of bugs,people will be saying "Remember how awful SH4 was?So get over it!" LOL! It's amazing how much a person can take and even pay for it!

I agree with you,put the game aside and wait some months.I was so tired with SH3 and waiting for the patches that by the time 1.4b came out,i was so bored that i wouldn't play anymore.Only GWX made me return.

So better wait and play the "FULL" game,after all the patches come out.

Cheers

Sharkfood

[ubatsnalle]

Age of Sail 2 was buggier than a baitshop. And, the sad part of it is, it was NEVER fixed...I've seen alpha versions of games that were in a more complete state.

After Age of Sail 2, nothing else really seems that bad.
I will second this statement.

This post is not really hitting at the original poster of this thread in particular, it is more of a general comment on the behaviour of players on message boards. Other games which definately deserves mentioning here is

- Destroyer Command
- Neverwinter Nights 2
- The Guild 2
- Battlefield 2 (This one even managed to introduce new issues on par with the 'a' button bug in its patches)

In addition to this I do not fully support the symtomatic 'typical UBI crap' whining which is common on internet messageboards. My observations of 15 years worth of computer gaming accross 3 different platforms is that any company will release unfinished games with quite similar frequency. I do not even think it has gotten that much worse with the introduction of downloadable patches a couple of years back.

The trick as a player is to manage your own expectations, remember that patience is a virtue and that throwing eggs on messageboards is not. The trick is to make constructive critisism in a polite and mature way written in proper English.

[goldorak]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 was ridiculously buggy. Another Ubi game. In fact is everyone aware of the fact that they rushed Obsidian so much in this game that they had to remove an entire PLANET? After release the modding community found huge stores of game files that had just been cut from the game: voice edits from character development, rooms, an entire part of the story arc missing. All so it could be rushed to shelves. And to this day Kotor 2 fans feel cheated by it.

Kotor 2 has 2 possible endings. There were supposed to be 13. Think about it.:nope:

Actually no, it was a lucasarts game.
And the game was half finished when lucasarts decided to publish it.
The game has whole MISSING sections and missing dialog in it. :damn: :damn:
The real problem was that Bioware with Kotor I didn't have to bow to lucasarts orders, thats why the game was great. It was published in a complete state.
Unfortunately Obsidian didn't have the same importance as Bioware, so when lucasarts in its infinite wisdom decide to publish the game, Obsidian didn't have any choice.
So sad, because KOTOR II could have been a real great game.

[Egan]

Got to be honest. I've found Sh4 to be playable and entirely stable. A couple of bugs. Haven't had any real effect on me what so ever. most problems i've had are more to do with me GPU not being hot enough but that is being rememdied today. Certainly not finding any worse that Sh3 and certainly not had any 'gamebreaker' bugs that people seem to be so keen on seeing all the time. Even my stadimeter works great. I'm also not sure every post i've read about bugs seems to know what a bug actually is as opposed to a game design choice.

There are things in the game I don't like - it still feels far too arcade for my likening - but They aren't bugs and I doubt there has ever been a game released where I have liked the entire feature set.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Battlefield,and part 2, game came with NO bugs, again none that made the game unplayable or atleast as bad as SH4.

Halflife 1 and 2, again same thing, no real bugs.

Company of Hero's,bug free.

'scuse me? I have all of those titles - and there was most certainly bugs, some of them fairly huge. The main difference between those and SH4 is the visibility of the bugs, due to an obvious lack of appreciation of the result, meant that you didn't see them.

[macky]

Got to be honest. I've found Sh4 to be playable and entirely stable.

I can understand this. There are bound to be some who do not get problems, or the ones they do it doesnt really matter to much. The reason is not because your copy is in a better state than someone elses, but probably because you do not use every function available.

For example, if you do not press for keeping depth, you will never experience ctd by pressing A. Personally, I keep doin git because I am a nub and keep forgetting not to do it:doh:

The video card I have now is more forgiveable (nvidea 7600GS instead of ati 9600) so the graphical anomolies are not as present as they were. Although I still get the 1-50fps loop of death more than I would like to in area's where there are no other ships or land apart from my sub on external view - and I am an eye candy person so I do like to use external camera.

So I think it depends on how you play, though if its in the game, i.e. a function of the game, it should work "as intended"...and for some things it just doesnt.

This is where consoles win, there is only one version of console, so no problems in compatability etc. This is why making for pc is more of a challenge. A challenge that ubi are obviously inept at.

[Egan]

The reason is not because your copy is in a better state than someone elses, but probably because you do not use every function available.

For example, if you do not press for keeping depth, you will never experience ctd by pressing A. Personally, I keep doin git because I am a nub and keep forgetting not to do it:doh:



There is truth in this. I never, ever use the A button for some reason. But by the same token, if the work around to this CTD causing bug is simply to not use A, surely this renders a lot of the moaning about it pointless? Yes, it's a bad bug but it is easily circumvented and will almost definately be fixed in the next patch. If you persist in continuing to use it - knowing that at the moment you will crash the game - doesn't that meen you need a bug fix too? :p

[Lionman]

LMAO!! Even WW2 online right out of the gate was more playable IMO.

Battlefield 2 and then this? Right there I think you lost any credibility, and your argument is just a thinly veiled pointing of fingers. BF2 and ESPECIALLY WW2 were rather buggy and BF2 actually got more broke with each patch. Go away, troll.

Go away troll?? I might of been exaggerating a little with WW2online.. They still haven't fixed that game..

I am 27 years old and have been playing games since Pole position on attari and Silent Service on my commodore..

The bottom line is I have never put a game away after buying it until SH4, I don't know what bugs you're talking about with BF2, because I played the game from day one all the way until the many patches after it. I didn't notice the bugs until reading forums and the readme's on the patches..

Nothing has even been such a disappointment until SH4 and thats the truth!

I am 6000 years old and have been playing games since the legendary "Tryanosaurus Racer" from the now defunct Silurian Studios, on an early model low RAM alpha model stone circle which I put together myself from Welsh blue stone - so what beats me is how cool some of these new fangled video game thingees you kids have now really are! Submarines aye? Marvellous idea! Sure would have helped hunting stegasori in-water! Now that's what I CALL a "super-lunch-hunter".

However, although I have searched far and wide above and below the waves, so far I haven't found a single wolf, so obviously you are right about there being plenty of bugs as yet. I guess I'll just sit here by my camp fire until it's dark enough to navigate by the stars again. Anyway, I hears me a rumour that them visigoths might be a'coming this way . . . . . better load them bow tubes agin!

OK - seriously shipmates - I am 60+ and my first PC was the legendary "BBC B" which was, in its day, "state-of-the-art" because it had coloured text (!) but mine was eventually re-tro-fitted with 128K (!) of "sideways RAM" as they called it back then, an early GUI, a Viglen mouse and metal boxed twin 5.5" disk drives with their own second extra computer, a zilog ZX80 chip! The office software was the "Perfect Software Suite" and I used to play wire frame DOS flight sims on a black screen! Now THAT took imagination and persistence.

So I am pretty tolerant of bugs in early releases of contemporary games now. I still find it a miracle that all those trillions of lines of code and blizzards of data can produce a believable stormy ocean and convincing weather, also perhaps, I am considerably more patient than I once was. Oh and in between there was a professional career on and under the real ocean, so for me, virtual voyages pander to a profound nostalgia . . . . once you have lived on, under and by it, the ocean's grip never really let's you go again. It's a jealous and dangerous mistress but the most ancient thing our DNA knows and the love runs deep indeed . . .

[fastfed]

Dear Fastfed,


What do you understand after reading the comments so far?I tell you what i understand (and i think what game companies understand):

No matter how much you rush a game,no matter how many the bugs,it's ok!Because people are so used to them now,that they have learnt to accept paying for a product ,that if it was ANYTHING ELSE than a PC game,they would ask their money back.Of course you can't do that with PC games ,because of the law of the jungle that exists in this sector.

I hear ya!I had a Commodore too.Ah,the old times,where "patch" was an unknown word...(yes,much simpler games,yet companies were much smaller too,relying on a very small market,but respecting the customer,probably exactly because the customer was precious).

Human is a creature driven by habbits.Make him used to a situation and he will never complain again.They could even sell unfinished books and you would see that people would still buy them ,waiting for the author to release the final chapter as "patch".

Why would a company respect the customer,when the customer doesn't respect himself?Ubi only watches the cash flow.As long as it's at expected levels,there is nothing wrong with releasing half finished games.And the majority of people have no problem with it!It has become a competition of who has played the buggiest game!LOL!How insane can that be? :rotfl: When SH 5 will come out full of bugs,people will be saying "Remember how awful SH4 was?So get over it!" LOL! It's amazing how much a person can take and even pay for it!

I agree with you,put the game aside and wait some months.I was so tired with SH3 and waiting for the patches that by the time 1.4b came out,i was so bored that i wouldn't play anymore.Only GWX made me return.

So better wait and play the "FULL" game,after all the patches come out.

Cheers

Sharkfood

I understand alot that is being replied in this thread, but again, every game that I ever played, I never stopped due to bugs, sure there are bugs in almost every game but not to the point of the game not being able to be played ( Except WW2 online, but that was only due to the massive graphics back in the day )

I had to stop playing SH4 due to the bugs also maybe its mental but when you realize they can't even fix typo's in a manual, or make sure what the manual says is true to the game. Imagine getting a new car and it tells you little things like; open the glove box to press the trunk button, to pop the hood pull the lever under the steering colum, so on and so forth, only to find out nothing is there..

I could play tons of stock games and enjoy them, even SH3 I played stock for years till just recently, with GWX.

I will bet anything that the mods HAVE to make this game playable.

[fastfed]

Battlefield,and part 2, game came with NO bugs, again none that made the game unplayable or atleast as bad as SH4.

Halflife 1 and 2, again same thing, no real bugs.

Company of Hero's,bug free.

'scuse me? I have all of those titles - and there was most certainly bugs, some of them fairly huge. The main difference between those and SH4 is the visibility of the bugs, due to an obvious lack of appreciation of the result, meant that you didn't see them.

Again.. Of course there are bugs in games, but no matter what people played BF1942 and BF2, non stop, from the day of release, how many people put this game down? how many people gave it up? I paid more for this game than I did for BF1942, people STILL play BF 1942, how many people are playing SH2 ?

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Battlefield,and part 2, game came with NO bugs, again none that made the game unplayable or atleast as bad as SH4.

Halflife 1 and 2, again same thing, no real bugs.

Company of Hero's,bug free.
'scuse me? I have all of those titles - and there was most certainly bugs, some of them fairly huge. The main difference between those and SH4 is the visibility of the bugs, due to an obvious lack of appreciation of the result, meant that you didn't see them.
Again.. Of course there are bugs in games, but no matter what people played BF1942 and BF2, non stop, from the day of release, how many people put this game down? how many people gave it up? I paid more for this game than I did for BF1942, people STILL play BF 1942, how many people are playing SH2 ?

People still play BF1942 because it was the best of the Battlefield series, SHII was holocaust.

[Egan]

[ SHII was holocaust.

Hey! I liked SH2. Sure, it was like a crippled, ugly puppy but I got many hours of enjoyment out of it. It also contained several features that should have been in SH3 and 4.

[Immacolata]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 was ridiculously buggy. Another Ubi game. In fact is everyone aware of the fact that they rushed Obsidian so much in this game that they had to remove an entire PLANET? After release the modding community found huge stores of game files that had just been cut from the game: voice edits from character development, rooms, an entire part of the story arc missing. All so it could be rushed to shelves. And to this day Kotor 2 fans feel cheated by it.

Kotor 2 has 2 possible endings. There were supposed to be 13. Think about it.:nope:


Ultima VII part 2: The Serpent Isle had massive hidden content that was cut in the last moment. Digital archeologists extracted a lot of endgame content that simply was unhooked some point before the game shipped. But remained in.

The practice is old. Now I just wish people wouldn't get so damn upset over bugs always. It ruins my game twice. First the bugs, then the endless whining over it. It is like when your vacation is ruined by a rainstorm and that obnoxious lady keeps moaning how rain ruined HER holidy. ... Like, STFU.

[Genferret]

LMAO!! Even WW2 online right out of the gate was more playable IMO.
Errr...

WWIIOL first day you had to download a patch that was bigger than what came on the CD in the box. After the 2nd patch that CD was just a nice coaster because you could download the entire game faster than you could install it from CD and patch it up.

It did get better for a year or so, now CRS seems hell bent upon driving customers away.

And, former 31st Wrecking Crew here. Former in the fact I don't play WWIIOL anymore, but I do still talk to Plastic and use a 31st WC emblem on my U-boats in SHIII.

Edit: Oh, and in regards to Ubi games as of late, while I haven't tried SHIV it's because of my experiences with Splinter Cell: Double Agent. Game still crashes a lot, was unplayable on my old video card (pre-release they said it would be supported, 1 month after release it got cut from cards supported for multiplayer). My new video card which is a GeForce 8800? Still not playable unless I disable certain options in the video settings.

[Onkel Neal]

[

Now I just wish people wouldn't get so damn upset over bugs always. It ruins my game twice. First the bugs, then the endless whining over it. It is like when your vacation is ruined by a rainstorm and that obnoxious lady keeps moaning how rain ruined HER holidy. ... Like, STFU.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Audie]

[

Now I just wish people wouldn't get so damn upset over bugs always. It ruins my game twice. First the bugs, then the endless whining over it. It is like when your vacation is ruined by a rainstorm and that obnoxious lady keeps moaning how rain ruined HER holidy. ... Like, STFU.

My, oh my!!!!
haha :lol:
Best post of the day :know: