New guns jamming in combat!

[moose1am]

OK I just saw on future weapons a story about a new US gun that will be put into operation. Some of these are being used in Iraq today. The bad thing about these new guns is that they get jammed when exposed to sand and dirt. Now the Army is ordering another 100,000 of these new weapons before they even get the ones in operation fixed.

This reminds me of the Mark ?? torpedoes that were used by the USA during the first few years of WWII. By now everyone knows that story. If not do a Google search on defective WWII torpedoes.

And everyone should know about the first M16's that were used in Nam. They too jammed easily when they got dirty. These rifles had to be modified to free jammed cartridges.

No one wants to get in a firefight and have their weapon jam.

It's bad enough that our guys are being sent to police Iraq while there is a civil war going on. But to send them into battle again with defective weapons is CRIMINAL.

I am going to call my senator and congressman and demand that they look into these new guns and get them fixed before the Army orders another 100,000 of these defective guns.

These guns work great when they are clean but in the middle east where they are needed it's impossible to keep them clean with all the blowing sand and fine grit.

I did see a gun being use on the Future Weapons show where they laid the gun down in sand and then picked it up and used it and it worked. But when our soldiers start complaining about their guns jamming while in a firefight that's the last straw.

We need to give our guys the best weapons possible if we are going to send them into harms way. They should not have to die needlessly.

[SUBMAN1]

What gun? Can't call anyone without knowing what it is.

-S

[CptSimFreak]

And everyone should know about the first M16's that were used in Nam. They too jammed easily when they got dirty. These rifles had to be modified to free jammed cartridges.



M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....

[elite_hunter_sh3]

AK 47s FOR EVERYBODY!!!!, seriously only reason y america wont use the ak 47 is because russia will say "o so now u r using OUR weapons" then all the flaming will begin, america has THE best technology in the world for their airplanes etc, their guns r so high tech... yet they still jam by some lousy sand and dirt, while a gun made in the late 40's early 50's still better then those guns today, if america switched to ak47 anmd used their technology god knows wut kind of crazy high powered gun they wud have,

[CptSimFreak]

What gun? Can't call anyone without knowing what it is.

-S

It's probably XM-8, although I didn't know they entered combat..

[elite_hunter_sh3]

And everyone should know about the first M16's that were used in Nam. They too jammed easily when they got dirty. These rifles had to be modified to free jammed cartridges.


M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....

thats because when i was first made they switched the firing cartridge to a different caliber so it fired longer but the charge that was used to fire the bullet was dirty and not clean, if they stuck to the stock cartridge designed for the m16 they wudda had no ideal condition jams.

[SUBMAN1]

M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....
Check you gas line. I've put 5000 to 6000 rds through mine without a single jam. Colt had problems. Bushmaster is better.

-S

PS. I take that back - I had a dented mag that caused an FTF once. Spring hung on the dent (It was a minor dent too and I didn't think something so small would affect it). It was one of the older Colt style mags. So I had one - but it was not caused by the gun. Been using Bushmaster mags ever since without a single hiccup.

PPS. I forgot - my gun lube - I swear by this stuff - http://www.militec1.com/

[SUBMAN1]

It's probably XM-8, although I didn't know they entered combat..

That project was cancelled long ago. None were made for military service.

[CptSimFreak]

M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....
Check you gas line. I've put 5000 to 6000 rds through mine without a single jam. Colt had problems. Bushmaster is better.

-S
Each time I had to re-qualify, I had that problem. My squad mates had that problem. And don't compare AR to M16...

[blue3golf]

As an infantryman with tours to Iraq I can say i never had a problem with an M16. Sure, they might require some cleaning but that's part of it and if you do it right after a mission there should be no problems. The old CLP sucks, if you use something like Mil-Tec or some sort of dry lube they work fine. It all comes down to how well you take care of your weapon. Only time I've had one jam after a couple magazines was at a range when it was freezing cold and the thing heated up so fast it the metal expanded to fast and that's what happens. As for the AK, the only reason it is so reliable is beacuse of how loose the tolerances are that it is built too, there is so much room in that receiver that mud and all kinds of crap can get in there and it still fires, but the price of that is accuracy, or total lack of it. The round an AK uses doesn't do the damage to the human body that one from the M16 does either, it just leaves a hole, easy fix, nothing like getting hit and then the round tumbles and bounces all over inside the body like ours do, can't plug holes you can't see. I would rather spend a little extra time cleaning and M16, which your supposed to do anyway, and have my accuracy than just some spray gun.

[SUBMAN1]

M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....
Check you gas line. I've put 5000 to 6000 rds through mine without a single jam. Colt had problems. Bushmaster is better.

-S Each time I had to re-qualify, I had that problem. My squad mates had that problem. And don't compare AR to M16...
I've shot both. Internally they are almost the same. I forgot to mention - http://www.militec1.com/ - That is the lube that I swear by.

-S

Here are the differences:

http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

[CptSimFreak]

M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....
Check you gas line. I've put 5000 to 6000 rds through mine without a single jam. Colt had problems. Bushmaster is better.

-S Each time I had to re-qualify, I had that problem. My squad mates had that problem. And don't compare AR to M16...
I've shot both. Internally they are almost the same. I forgot to mention - http://www.militec1.com/ - That is the lube that I swear by.

-S

Here are the differences:

http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

When 15000 military members use your gun, maybe than you can compare to POS I was using and yours. I'm sure it's nice and that it is accurate, but it is far from same weapon. Btw, I only had experience with 'range' guns that get overused. Picture what would happen to your toy when it will be taken appart 4 times a day by all kinds of folks and shot 200 rounds a day for years .

[SUBMAN1]

When 15000 military members use your gun, maybe than you can compare to POS I was using and yours. I'm sure it's nice and that it is accurate, but it is far from same weapon. Btw, I only had experience with 'range' guns that get overused. Picture what would happen to your toy when it will be taken appart 4 times a day by all kinds of folks and shot 200 rounds a day for years .

Ahhh! I see the picture! Yeah, that could be irritating.

-S

[waste gate]

So, which weapon is jamming?

[SUBMAN1]

So, which weapon is jamming?
Same question I asked.

I know Barrett has a new one (6.8mm? I forgot), and I know Heckler and Koch has a new one (4.5mm?), but i am wondering if this is even a new rifle - maybe in is the 5.56 FN SAW? I hear the SAW was having major issues in Iraq. Not only did it jam a lot (To the point where it needed disassembly in the middle of combat to clear it!!!), but that the barrels frequently warped. I bet this is the gun if I had to guess. I know that a typical SAW user carries 3 barrels into combat now - sad.

-S

[waste gate]

So, which weapon is jamming?
Same question I asked.

I know Barrett has a new one (6.8mm? I forgot), and I know Heckler and Koch has a new one (4.5mm?), but i am wondering if this is even a new rifle - maybe in is the 5.56 FN SAW? I hear the SAW was having major issues in Iraq. Not only did it jam a lot (To the point where it needed disassembly in the middle of combat to clear it!!!), but that the barrels frequently warped. I bet this is the gun if I had to guess. I know that a typical SAW user carries 3 barrels into combat now - sad.

-S

I have the Barrett 468 upper conversion. I just attach it to an AR-15 lower. I've probably put 800 rnds thru it and haven't had any problem.

[SUBMAN1]

I have the Barrett 468 upper conversion. I just attach it to an AR-15 lower. I've probably put 800 rnds thru it and haven't had any problem.

I don't think that is the problem weapon, and your upper is not the full gun anyway. I think I want a .22 upper too, but that is another story for another thread.

Anyway, age could be a factor on the SAW - and that goes along with some of the posts above about old worn out weapons still in use:

The FN Minimi has an excellent reputation on reliability and firepower, and the latest reports on failures of M249 SAW weapons in Iraq are attributed to the age of the weapons used - most of the current issue M249 in US Army are more than 10 years old and quite worn out.

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg17-e.htm

-S

[Heibges]

Don't you mean rifles? :lol:

Guns are only on tanks, and in the artillery.:lol:

All you pogues with the word "gun" in your post drop and give me 50.

[Tchocky]

Ah, but some tanks and artillery use rifled guns.....

Aren't H&K offering a new receiver for the M-4 that's more effective in sand etc?

[Heibges]

Rifled or not, if it's big and bad, it's still referred to as a gun.

[ASWnut101]

And everyone should know about the first M16's that were used in Nam. They too jammed easily when they got dirty. These rifles had to be modified to free jammed cartridges.


M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....

thats because when i was first made they switched the firing cartridge to a different caliber so it fired longer but the charge that was used to fire the bullet was dirty and not clean, if they stuck to the stock cartridge designed for the m16 they wudda had no ideal condition jams.


The powder problem was solved long ago, right after the vietnam war. They are much more reliable now.

[ASWnut101]

So, which weapon is jamming?
Same question I asked.

I know Barrett has a new one (6.8mm? I forgot), and I know Heckler and Koch has a new one (4.5mm?), but i am wondering if this is even a new rifle - maybe in is the 5.56 FN SAW? I hear the SAW was having major issues in Iraq. Not only did it jam a lot (To the point where it needed disassembly in the middle of combat to clear it!!!), but that the barrels frequently warped. I bet this is the gun if I had to guess. I know that a typical SAW user carries 3 barrels into combat now - sad.

-S


Not too sure about Barrett, but H&K's is the new MP-7. Not a rifle. They had it on Futureweapons, and it fires the 4.5 (or was it 4.8?)mm rifle round. Pierces body armor and kevlar helmets with ease.


As for the SAW, they are replacing that already. They've got the M-240B Light Machine Gun (which is actually replacing the M-60E3), and the M-(I forgot the number) SAW to replace the M-249 SAW. The -240B uses the 7.62 NATO, and the new SAW uses the 5.56 NATO.

[Yahoshua]

I bet sand cuts on the bolt would solve quite a bit of the jamming problems on the Ar/M-16 variants, but I've yet to test that out. (Maybe I'll make it a future project).

But anyway, what firearm are you talking about? If it's the AR/M-16 variants then it really comes down to WHO made the parts: Factory spec. or aftermarket? This fact makes a WORLD of difference in reliability issues.

The aftermarket magazines and springs that the army ordered for use in Beretta sidearms are a good example of this. The army has learned to order factory spec. equipment when they need parts and accessories.

Militech will also make a big difference with problems relating to "dust gumming" in the action with sand and powder residue (however it's NOT a lube but a metal treatment application!!).

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

AK 47s FOR EVERYBODY!!!!, seriously only reason y america wont use the ak 47 is because russia will say "o so now u r using OUR weapons" then all the flaming will begin, america has THE best technology in the world for their airplanes etc, their guns r so high tech... yet they still jam by some lousy sand and dirt, while a gun made in the late 40's early 50's still better then those guns today, if america switched to ak47 anmd used their technology god knows wut kind of crazy high powered gun they wud have,

Actually, the AK-47 was an engineering compromise suited to Russian conditions. It was deliberately built "crudely" - big heavy bolt, wide tolerances ... etc. The nice thing is that it stops them from jamming, but the tolerances kill off long-range accuracy.

[Tchocky]

Ah yes, this was it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_HK416

[Yahoshua]

With the avg. being 3-5 MOA at 100 meters (1 Minute of Angle = 1" at 100 meters), I'd say that kills ANY hope of accuracy!!:yep: http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/ak47-smile.gif

[SUBMAN1]

Don't you mean rifles? :lol:

Guns are only on tanks, and in the artillery.:lol:

All you pogues with the word "gun" in your post drop and give me 50.

Southerners :nope:

[ASWnut101]

:rotfl: ...wait.:doh: :doh: :o :o :stare: :huh: :88) :dead:

[SUBMAN1]

Actually, the AK-47 was an engineering compromise suited to Russian conditions. It was deliberately built "crudely" - big heavy bolt, wide tolerances ... etc. The nice thing is that it stops them from jamming, but the tolerances kill off long-range accuracy.

Pretty much spot on.

Other drawbacks:

the sights are too short

the 7.62x39 is a really bad bullet if you want to kill people. Seems to make a wound similar to a small calibre handgun

the 7.62x39 is too heavy and drops significantly at range.

Hitting anything with this gun at over 100 meters = act of frustration. I guess for the 1940's and 50's, it was rather sophisticated however.

-S

[bradclark1]

With the avg. being 3-5 MOA at 100 meters (1 Minute of Angle = 1" at 100 meters), I'd say that kills ANY hope of accuracy!!:yep: http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/ak47-smile.gif
Thats where sight picture comes in.

[ASWnut101]

The sights aren't too short, at least on mine. They are adjustable for range.

[Torpedo Fodder]

I imagine the weapon being referred to in the opening post is the new M312 heavy machine gun. I might have said thr Mk. 46 and Mk. 48 SAWs (both based on the FN Minimi/M249 SAW), but since those are used exclusivly by SOCOM, there's no way the military would be ordering 100,000 of them.

[SUBMAN1]

The sights aren't too short, at least on mine. They are adjustable for range.
Well, when you have both an AR and an AK, you begin to notice the shortcomings in the iron sights. The little sqeeze dealy (like that word?) is pathetic against the accurate sites on an AR. On the AR, you can adjust for windage, range, everything with a high degree of accuracy. For longer ranges, you flip one sight down in favor of the long range sight, or flip it back for shorter range work.

Anyway, check the AR and then you will see why I think the AK sights are a bit, well, good enough for close work I guess.

-S

PS. Effective range on the AK - about 100 meters accurately. Effective range on the AR - about 500 meters effectively. Shooting the AK at 200 meters is about as accurate as shooting the AR at 800!

[ASWnut101]

Squeeze delay? No, mine came with a rear adjustable height sight. The windage adjustment on it does suck, though. I also totally agree that the AR is more accurate too.

[SUBMAN1]

Squeeze delay? No, mine came with a rear adjustable height sight. The windage adjustment on it does suck, though. I also totally agree that the AR is more accurate too.

No - deely. I was making up a word for a thing - not delay. Was having fun till you ruined my fun by not getting it! :D

Anyway, yeah, the simple move down / up AK sights just don't work very well. For the AR, you have adjustment knobs for elevation and windage. Your sights also flip for a wider sight for targeting quickly, to a very narrow sight for targetting accurately at range. Its night and day between the AK and AR.

-S

[Yahoshua]

Military triggers are 3 stage.

First stage is ALOT of slack (this is called trigger creep), this is instituted as an "Anti-dumbass device" to give the trooper enough time to think before they shoot (positively ID the target) or to have the firearm ready to shoot by going from first stage to the second stage.

The second stage is the "trigger break" (when the firearm is fired). This is ALWAYS a rough pull before the trigger "breaks" and the firing pin strikes the cartridge.

The third stage is after creep, which is the slack or room to move after the trigger break. It serves no purpose other than to screw up your shot (and indeed it does).


The AR and AK both make great plinkers, but the AR wins the accuracy and distance bid hands down.

[moose1am]

So, which weapon is jamming?


I can't remember the name or numbers of the weapon. I saw this on the news (TV NEWS) yesterday or last night. The TV show about Future Weapons has been on tv several times in the last few weeks. I am guessing maybe its the same weapon but man there are so many of them out there now.

I was hoping that someone else in this forum saw the same show on TV last night.
I am thinking it's an assult weapon that was made with larger caliper bullets with more stopping power. But the only reason I think that is due to the future weapons show that I saw. I am not certain if the weapon that jams is the same one that I saw on future weapons show.

I'll make a note if I see this program again and write down the weapon name and model number.

I think that any weapons being considered for use in combat should be tested in the field by our own troops and not by some company that's selling the weapon to the army. They may cheat. Weapons should work before they are mass produced and given to the guys in the field.

[moose1am]

The weapon that I saw on the Future Weapons show was using a heavier bullet to give it more stopping power. The x navy seal was firing this weapon into some thick clear plastic plates that were stacked together. The M16 bullet size only went though one plastic block. These blocks were about a inch thick. The new weapon fired a heavier caliper bullet and it went though 2 or 3 blocks and knocked the entire stack of blocks down. It has much more hitting power.

But I am not sure if this is the same weapon that is being deployed in Iraq right now and getting all the complaints. We should know if our solders are being given weapons that jam in combat. Again I suggest that everyone keep an ear to the ground to find out what's happening with this new weapon before someone makes 100,000 of them. I don't care who makes these weapons as long as they work right. That's the most important thing to me.

So, which weapon is jamming?
Same question I asked.

I know Barrett has a new one (6.8mm? I forgot), and I know Heckler and Koch has a new one (4.5mm?), but i am wondering if this is even a new rifle - maybe in is the 5.56 FN SAW? I hear the SAW was having major issues in Iraq. Not only did it jam a lot (To the point where it needed dis assembly in the middle of combat to clear it!!!), but that the barrels frequently warped. I bet this is the gun if I had to guess. I know that a typical SAW user carries 3 barrels into combat now - sad.

-S


Not too sure about Barrett, but H&K's is the new MP-7. Not a rifle. They had it on Future weapons, and it fires the 4.5 (or was it 4.8?)mm rifle round. Pierces body armor and Kevlar helmets with ease.


As for the SAW, they are replacing that already. They've got the M-240B Light Machine Gun (which is actually replacing the M-60E3), and the M-(I forgot the number) SAW to replace the M-249 SAW. The -240B uses the 7.62 NATO, and the new SAW uses the 5.56 NATO.

[moose1am]

One thing that I was sure that the TV new show said was that they were ordering 100.000 of these weapons for the future. That and that they had soldiers in the field in Iraq that were complaining about these weapons. I just wish I could have remembered the name or model number of the weapon.



I imagine the weapon being referred to in the opening post is the new M312 heavy machine gun. I might have said thr Mk. 46 and Mk. 48 SAWs (both based on the FN Minimi/M249 SAW), but since those are used exclusivly by SOCOM, there's no way the military would be ordering 100,000 of them.

[SUBMAN1]

One thing that I was sure that the TV new show said was that they were ordering 100.000 of these weapons for the future. That and that they had soldiers in the field in Iraq that were complaining about these weapons. I just wish I could have remembered the name or model number of the weapon.



I imagine the weapon being referred to in the opening post is the new M312 heavy machine gun. I might have said thr Mk. 46 and Mk. 48 SAWs (both based on the FN Minimi/M249 SAW), but since those are used exclusivly by SOCOM, there's no way the military would be ordering 100,000 of them.
Did it look something like this?

http://blog.empas.com/sin205/24816849_550x529.jpg

If so, make sure you know what you are talking about before calling someone. Notice that it is on a stock M-4 lower, so is it the M-4 lower causing the problem?

-S

[elite_hunter_sh3]

ok ak has accuracy problems, but in todays urban fighting style wars, ak will win agaisnt a cheap m16, who won the vietnam war??? NVA with their russian weapons, or the US armed forces with their tactical helicopter advntage, b52 bombers, their huey helicopters, and their f4 phantom mig killers.... who won?? IIRC NVA decimated the US armed forces and the US had to retreate and evacuate...:roll:

[Dowly]

And everyone should know about the first M16's that were used in Nam. They too jammed easily when they got dirty. These rifles had to be modified to free jammed cartridges.


M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....
Then sell them the Finnish RK, a replica of AK. Some people say it´s even better & more reliable than AK´s. Quite accurate too when I tried it and it wont jam! The lieutenant said that we dont clean the gun because it would jam if dirty, but because it is nice to have a clean gun. You can do pretty much anything to it and it´ll work. :up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rk_62

[Torpedo Fodder]

ok ak has accuracy problems, but in todays urban fighting style wars, ak will win agaisnt a cheap m16, who won the vietnam war??? NVA with their russian weapons, or the US armed forces with their tactical helicopter advntage, b52 bombers, their huey helicopters, and their f4 phantom mig killers.... who won?? IIRC NVA decimated the US armed forces and the US had to retreate and evacuate...:roll:

No, actually Vietnam is an example of winning all the battles but still losing the war. The US never lost any battle of any importance during Vietnam, and they inflicted almost 20 times the number of casualties they recieved (the US lost 58,000, and the NVA/VC lost over 1 million). After 10 years of bleeding with no end in sight and little measurable progress, political pressure at home forced a withdrawal. The NVA hardly drove the US out, because until the US left, they were the ones being decimated. It was only after the US left that they were finally able to conquer South VIetnam.

[The Noob]

My choice of weapons is strongly influenced by Rambonism.

Rambonism

There are several fundamental laws of Rambonism. They are:

1: When in war, use the biggest calibre, noisiest, most inaccurate machine gun possible; no sniper rifles allowed

2: If no big gun is available, use a big noisy handgun such as the Desert Eagle.

3: If no big noisy handgun is available, use a huge freaking combat knife such as the one depicted in the movie First Blood.

4: If no weapon from rules 1-3 is available, you must use your fists while screaming loudly.

5: These rules apply to video games as well, such as Americas Army and Counterstrike.

6: Always make your presence known.

[Torpedo Fodder]

One thing that I was sure that the TV new show said was that they were ordering 100.000 of these weapons for the future. That and that they had soldiers in the field in Iraq that were complaining about these weapons. I just wish I could have remembered the name or model number of the weapon.
Alright, here are a few US or US-operated weapons that have been featured on Future Weapons, so maybe you can identify which one it is. Bear in mind some of them are not actually adopted by US forces

Mk. 48 Mod. 0 Light Machinegun (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg38-e.htm)
XM312 Heavy Machinegun (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg39-e.htm)
Barrett M107/M82 .50cal Rifle (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn02-e.htm)
Accuracy International AS50 .50cal Rifle (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn67-e.htm)
HK 416 assault rifle (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as75-e.htm)

[moose1am]

I am not that familiar with all the different rifles or weapons in use today. I just never was that interested in all the different weapons. With that being said the picture of this weapon does look familiar to me. And M4 could be the weapons that was referenced in the new program on TV. M4 sounds familiar. Last night I did a Google search on Jamming Rifles and found some interesting material. There are a lot of problems with weapons jamming according to the Google articles. I know someone above wrote that the AK47 doesn't jam as often because it's POORLY made. The manufacturing tolerance are very loose for the AK47. Therefore it does not jam when it gets mud in the thing. The US weapon manufactures make the parts to very close tolerances that are more susceptible to jamming. And they changed the power in the M16 from rod to ball type powder to reduce the gumming up of the internal parts of the M16. Or maybe they went from ball to rod type powder. I can't remember which one they ended up using. But one type of powder burns cleaner than the other.

One thing that I was sure that the TV new show said was that they were ordering 100.000 of these weapons for the future. That and that they had soldiers in the field in Iraq that were complaining about these weapons. I just wish I could have remembered the name or model number of the weapon.



I imagine the weapon being referred to in the opening post is the new M312 heavy machine gun. I might have said thr Mk. 46 and Mk. 48 SAWs (both based on the FN Minimi/M249 SAW), but since those are used exclusively by SOCOM, there's no way the military would be ordering 100,000 of them.
Did it look something like this?

http://blog.empas.com/sin205/24816849_550x529.jpg

If so, make sure you know what you are talking about before calling someone. Notice that it is on a stock M-4 lower, so is it the M-4 lower causing the problem?

-S

[moose1am]

The problem is my faulty memory and my lack of paying close attention to the news article. I think I am mixing my memory of the future weapon's program with the news article . I went to the Future Weapons web site last night and looked at all the programs that have appeared in season 1 and season 2 and not one of the weapons rung a bell. Now I remember each and ever Future Weapons program but like you said none of these weapons are in mass production.

I think that knowing which weapons is being mass produced today is the key to figuring out exactly which weapon the TV NEWs program was talking about. I did some web googling last night and I am leaning toward the M4 as that weapon best reminds me of the one in question. It's subject to jamming when dirty and it's being ordered in large numbers. Although I could not find any information on anyone ordering 100,000 of these weapons. I did see where there was an order for around 20,000. I questioned the 100,000 number myself.

Did anyone else catch this news program? I have read all the posts in this thread and not one other person saw that news show on TV. This was a news show on TV and not the future weapons program.



One thing that I was sure that the TV new show said was that they were ordering 100.000 of these weapons for the future. That and that they had soldiers in the field in Iraq that were complaining about these weapons. I just wish I could have remembered the name or model number of the weapon.
Alright, here are a few US or US-operated weapons that have been featured on Future Weapons, so maybe you can identify which one it is. Bear in mind some of them are not actually adopted by US forces

Mk. 48 Mod. 0 Light Machinegun (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg38-e.htm)
XM312 Heavy Machinegun (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg39-e.htm)
Barrett M107/M82 .50cal Rifle (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn02-e.htm)
Accuracy International AS50 .50cal Rifle (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn67-e.htm)
HK 416 assault rifle (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as75-e.htm)

[ASWnut101]

ok ak has accuracy problems, but in todays urban fighting style wars, ak will win agaisnt a cheap m16, who won the vietnam war??? NVA with their russian weapons, or the US armed forces with their tactical helicopter advntage, b52 bombers, their huey helicopters, and their f4 phantom mig killers.... who won?? IIRC NVA decimated the US armed forces and the US had to retreate and evacuate...:roll:


Now that's blowing it quite too far out of proportion. Oh, and M-16's aren't cheap.:cool:

[elite_hunter_sh3]

1965 - 1967. Field reports from Vietnam began to look much more pessimistic. M16 rifles, issued to US troops in the Vietnam, severely jammed in combat, resulting in numerous casualties. There were some causes for malfunction. First of all, during the introduction of the new rifle and its ammunition into the service, US Army replaced originally specified Dupont IMR powder with standard ball powder, used in 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition. The ball powder produced much more fouling, that quickly jammed the actions of the M16 unless the gun was cleared well and often. This pitifully combined with the fact that the initial M16 rifles were promoted by the Colt as "low maintenance", so, for the sake of economy, no cleaning supplies were procured for new M16 rifles, and no weapon care training was conducted fro the troops. As a result, soldiers did not knew how to clean their rifles, and had no provisions for cleaning, and thing soon turned bad. To add the trouble, the ball powders also had a different pressure curve, so they produced higher pressures at the gas port, giving the rise to the rate of fire, and, thus, decreasing accuracy and increasing parts wear.

1967 - 1970. The deficiencies discovered in previous years began do dissolve. 5.56mm ammunition was now loaded using different powders that produce much less residue in the gun action. The barrel, chamber and bolt of the rifles were chrome-lined to improve corrosion resistance. Cleaning kits were procured and issued to troops, and a special training programs were developed and conducted ever since. Earliest cleaning kits could be carried separate from rifle only, but since circa 1970 all M16A1 rifles were manufactured with the containment cavity in the buttstock, that held the cleaning kit. At the same time (circa 1970) the new 30 rounds magazines were introduced into service instead of the original 20 rounds ones, to equal Soviet and Chinese AK-47 assault rifles, which had 30-rounds magazines from the very beginning.
1977 - 1979. NATO trials lead to the adoption of the improved 5.56x45mm cartridge, developed in Belgium by FN. This cartridge, initially developed in conjunction with the FN Minimi (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg17-e.htm) light machine gun, featured a slightly heavier bullet with accordingly slightly lower muzzle velocity. The resulting long-range performance, however, improved due to the better ballistic coefficient of the new bullet. The SS109 required a faster rifling twist to stabilize its bullet, than the original 5.56x45mm US M193 ammunition. The M193 was used with barrels rifled with 1:12 twist (1 turn in 12 inches), and SS109 was preferred to be fired with 1:7 twist (1 turn in 7 inches). Some arms manufacturers preferred to make their guns with intermediate 1:9 rifling, which would be equally good (or bad) for both old and new loadings.courtesy of
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm

[Rockstar]

Think maybe you could put a word in to capitol hill and see if they can fix my paintball gun too? The gun jams when my CO2 charge drops to 50% up on full auto causing the paintballs to explode in my face.

thanks

[Torpedo Fodder]

Did anyone else catch this new program? I have read all the posts in this thread and not one other person saw that new show?
Well, to my knowledge the most recent small arm reviewed on Future Weapons was the Barrett M468 (which Subman provided a picture of), but AFAIK that weapon has not been adopted and there are no current plans to do so (SOCOM may have a few on limited trial basis, but that's about it), so if that's the one you're talking about, I doubt the weapon that's jamming in Iraq is the same as the one featured in the show.

[Bort]

As far as I can tell, of the mentioned weapons only the Mk. 48 and the HK 416 are in service, both exclusively with Special Ops outfits. It would be suprising if the HK 416 is jamming, since it was designed specifically to rectify the shortcomings of the M-16, namely, jamming!:doh: