View Full Version : Where have all the sub drivers gone?
Driftwood
03-22-07, 06:47 PM
Interesting that there are 637 captains down in the SHIV forum and only 36 in here. :D
All of us love a new sim! Now we have the best of the new boats (DW) and the best of the old boats (SHIII & IV)! :up:
Virtual life is GOOD! :arrgh!:
ASWnut101
03-22-07, 07:23 PM
Were the proud, elite few.:cool: (DW players, that is!)
Molon Labe
03-22-07, 08:44 PM
Traitor.:shifty:
ASWnut101
03-22-07, 08:52 PM
Who?
Driftwood
03-23-07, 06:38 AM
He's talking to me ASW......:lol: ML and I are good friends. :arrgh!: Don't worry ole buddy.....I'll never give up my Seawolf! :D But I have granted a litlle bit of shore leave to my crew while I'm qualifying in a Gato class boat. :know:
desertisland
03-24-07, 07:16 AM
Gone to diesel everyone~
I vist all the sections in the forum..... Be it diesel or nuclear powered Subs :up:
All the commotion will soon die down from SH4 so i assume more peeps will come back
Acutally ive returned to these forums after a long period away from DW. The news that 1.04 is out coupled with the fact the the latest LWAMI mod is so excellent (with new models!!) has rekindled my intrest. Now I can play DW whilst I wait for SH4 to be fixed :D
Molon Labe
03-29-07, 12:02 PM
You know, I might have actually considered giving SHIII/SHIV a try... if not for the decision of UBI to make a sequel to SHIII without ever adding controllable destroyers. :down: I'm at a loss to understand why they would "remake" the sim in a new theatre, leaving the sim essentially half-finished for MP purposes. I'm sure the campaign mode of SHIV is superb, but without human opposition in MP, I would shelve it pretty quickly.
LuftWolf
03-29-07, 01:28 PM
My impression is that the SH series are basically "Submarine Adventure Games", not really simulators per se.
Although I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with me... I really enjoyed the Silent Service series, so I'm not sure whether to file SH under the uber-SS catagory, or like Kings Quest Navy...
When I upgrade my computer, the SH series is definately a bit behind IL-2:1946, F4AF, and the new Combat Mission... the idea of wandering the ocean looking for ships to sink just for the privaledge of being able to wander the ocean looking for more ships to sink seems a bit drool to me.
But again, I loved the SS series, so who knows... maybe it's that I'm 15 years older.
Cheers,
David
goldorak
03-29-07, 01:36 PM
My impression is that the SH series are basically "Submarine Adventure Games", not really simulators per se.
Although I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with me...
Cheers,
David
Well SH III when modded with GWX is a superlative simulation. :yep:
SH I was a very good sim. (I still play it from time to time now that it works at full speed in dosbox :sunny: ).
SH IV as of now is a half baked sim (does it remind you of something luftwolf ? :rotfl: ) but with time I'm sure it will improve.
LuftWolf
03-29-07, 01:45 PM
Well, without having played the sim, it's hard to judge... but just about nothing I've seen about SH makes me want to play the game, which is confusing to me, since I'm a simmer from way way back in the day.
Maybe its my growing desire to get back into flight sims that masking any desire I might have for ocean-prowling... ah to flame bombers again!
Cheers,
David
goldorak
03-29-07, 01:49 PM
One thing though, I wouldn't mind in the least SH IV graphics in DW. :cool:
One thing though, I wouldn't mind in the least SH IV graphics in DW. :cool:
What a useless post :rotfl:
goldorak
03-29-07, 02:42 PM
What a useless post :rotfl:
But so true :rotfl:
Hartmann
03-29-07, 03:03 PM
Sh3 +gwx is a great simulation and have a very important thing, the dinamic career, the freedom to sail everywhere with random elements and great graphics and the possibility of mod almost all game.
I would like to see sh3 graphics in DW :yep:
LuftWolf
03-29-07, 03:49 PM
In trying to figure out the essential differences between the success of SHIII and DW I'd look at 1) SHIII graphics (duh) 2) dynamic campaign with a unified career and character/crew/boat that developes over time 3) fundamentally more simple vis-a-vis its actual simulation elements and tactical complexity 4) open ended modding system (as opposed to definite restrictions).
And then of course there is the fact that some people are just inherently more interested in WWII-warfare than modern warfare.
Although, really, the only reason to compare SHIII and DW is that they are both nominally related to submarines; other than that, they are about as much the same as Super Mario Brothers and ESIV: Oblivion.
In other words, I feel stupid even making this post. :-?
Cheers,
David
PS And of course the fact that SHIII has a major developer and publisher.
goldorak
03-29-07, 04:05 PM
In trying to figure out the essential differences between the success of SHIII and DW I'd look at 1) SHIII graphics (duh) 2) dynamic campaign with a unified career and character/crew/boat that developes over time 3) fundamentally more simple vis-a-vis its actual simulation elements and tactical complexity 4) open ended modding system (as opposed to definite restrictions).
I don't know if number 2 really is fundamental to the success of SH III, but surely numbers 1,3 and 4! make the sim much more future proof.
Although, really, the only reason to compare SHIII and DW is that they are both nominally related to submarines; other than that, they are about as much the same as Super Mario Brothers and ESIV: Oblivion.
Actually DW is not so much a submarine sim as it is an integrated 3d naval battlespace sim (but most simmers that come from 688/sc don't see it that way).
Unfortunately for us it stopped short of fullfilling its full potential.
Now where is that opfor pack SCS ? :damn: :arrgh!:
I honestly don't think that UBI could have developed a game like DW.
In any case, great graphics or not, I have my doubts whether DW would ever have achieved mainstream recognition.
In other words, I feel stupid even making this post. :-?
Cheers,
David
I on the other hand don't feel stupid answering you. :p
PS And of course the fact that SHIII has a major developer and publisher.
Yes that helps, but it has its minuses such as "dumb this, dumb that...." for the mainstream crowd.
Bilge_Rat
03-29-07, 04:28 PM
Luftwolf, you owe it to yourself to at least try SH3, since SH4 is not quite ready.
I have always been more of a fan of the sonalyst line, faithful player of 688/sub commmand/DW, but SH3 with a full 3D crew adds so much immersion, despite its faults.
I have spent hours on the bridge of my virtual u-boat watching the sea and the changing weather. Standing on the bridge of a U-boat, as a weather front is moving in, the waves are getting bigger, the wind is whipping up, lightning flashes on the horizon and you are surrounded by your bridge watch wearing their foul weather gear is the closest I have ever felt to being on a real boat in a PC game...and its even better if you are chasing a convoy on the horizon..
Driftwood
03-29-07, 05:07 PM
Luftwolf, you owe it to yourself to at least try SH3, since SH4 is not quite ready.
I have always been more of a fan of the sonalyst line, faithful player of 688/sub commmand/DW, but SH3 with a full 3D crew adds so much immersion, despite its faults.
I have spent hours on the bridge of my virtual u-boat watching the sea and the changing weather. Standing on the bridge of a U-boat, as a weather front is moving in, the waves are getting bigger, the wind is whipping up, lightning flashes on the horizon and you are surrounded by your bridge watch wearing their foul weather gear is the closest I have ever felt to being on a real boat in a PC game...and its even better if you are chasing a convoy on the horizon..
I tend to agree. I've got both SHIII and SHIV. While SHIII is much more developed than SHIV (meaning older and patched up) my interests lie more in the Pacific Theatre during WWII than in the Atlantic. Which is why I couldn't really get into SHIII. Once things get straightened out with SHIV and the modders get to work (which they already have :up: ) SHIV will be a great sim/game. As was previously stated, it sure would be great if DW had the graphics that the SH series has. Acknowledging that this will never happen doesn't bother me at all though.......you can count me as a lifetime member of the SCS club (688i, SC and DW). This is, in no small measure, thanks to our community at large. Guys like LW, Amizur, ML, Bill Nichols, Neal and many others that make up our virtual subsim community. :arrgh!:
Travis Reed
03-29-07, 11:36 PM
*comes back up to comms depth for awhile*
Wow, I've been away awhile... SH4 is out...though not complete...
Anyway, my experience overall with SH3 (even with the latest GWX) has been pretty much dull. Every mission...go here, go there, sink anything you encounter (or...most anything you encounter). Even using manual TDC it still gets pretty repetitive and hence, boring. I tend to rack up lots of renown and save it for the XXI, where I stop hunting merchants and go for warships exclusively...this made it less boring for awhile. Yet, even now it has become boring, even hunting those H/K groups offers little challenge. Where's Destroyer Command 2? I still have the orgiginal version of DC...
While I'll agree that the SH3 environment is far more immersive than SC and DW, SC and DW offer more challenge, even offline (well, with LWAMI anyway...). Especially when hunting an elusive Kilo...who is apt to shoot first and ask questions later...
In truth, if DW had the graphics of SH3/4, the elements we like would likely suffer to balance things out so people could still play the game/simulator without having unplayably low framerates.
I'm gonna stick with DW for awhile, at least...until Harpoon 4 comes out (if ever...).
desertisland
03-30-07, 02:14 AM
In truth, if DW had the graphics of SH3/4, the elements we like would likely suffer to balance things out so people could still play the game/simulator without having unplayably low framerates.
I don't have a problem with DW's 3D graphics, though I do think it is way behind its time. I'm not the hardcore type who sneers at eye-candies. Fighting Steel, for example, is an instant uninstall for me after about 2 hour's play. But I think DW has just enough eye-candy to catch my attention but nothing more. If the 3D is better I will like it more.
I do have a problem with DW's overall presentation, though. The poor intro and credit movies, the annoying menu music, mediocre menu art, not to forget the totally unfriendly gameplay. For a game of this difficulty, one would expect a whole range (at least 10+) of training missions, covering all aspects of the game.
SH3. I like playing around with this game, even modded the entire in game music with Das Boot soundtrack, dynamic BGM and everything, but, as you pointed out, game play gets repetitive after a while. Too bad I got it early on for 50 bucks...
Well, I have learned now: a game which is worth playing is worth waiting for. I will only get SH4 when it drops within my price range. Before then DW and SC will sustain my appetite. :ping:
LuftWolf
03-30-07, 02:18 AM
I do have a problem with DW's overall presentation, though. The poor intro and credit movies, the annoying menu music, mediocre menu art, not to forget the totally unfriendly gameplay.
Ouch, I hope Frying Tiger has a good sense of humor about himself. :)
Fortunately, you can mod out the music (finiteless sound mods, kind of trippy, but nice and ambient, soothing... something you can listen too for a LONG time without freaking out or getting annoyed) and I don't spend enough time in the menus to really notice, but in fact I kind of like the in game art.
You can also disable the intro and credit movies in the .ini file.
DW feels to me like exactly what it is... a well done 2001 game with a contract simulator built on top of it, and then hacked up and covered with moderately priced artwork for sale to the general public.
Not that this is a bad thing... it's the only way a game like this could be made for available to us, so get down on your knees and prey to your idols of Jamie. :arrgh!:
In regards to the gameplay: well NO one said commanding seven (7) modern naval weapon systems would be EASY! :|\\ :ping:
Cheers,
David
goldorak
03-30-07, 02:45 AM
I do have a problem with DW's overall presentation, though. The poor intro and credit movies, the annoying menu music, mediocre menu art, not to forget the totally unfriendly gameplay. For a game of this difficulty, one would expect a whole range (at least 10+) of training missions, covering all aspects of the game.
Yes here you have a very good point.
DW is very rough around the little details, little details that add nontheless to the overall enjoyment of the game.
The main problem is not that the gameplay is unfriendly as much as the total lack of a good tutorial.
The manual is excellent, but it leaves out important details : tactics and how to employ the units. :rotfl:
DW has a very steep learning curve, and it is made much steeper by not having any kind of ingame tutorial.
desertisland
03-30-07, 04:01 AM
Yes, goldorak. Friendliness and difficulty are two different things.
A game can be difficult and friendly at the same time if it is patient enough to explain itself to newbies.
LuftWolf
03-30-07, 04:07 AM
Yes, goldorak. Friendliness and difficulty are two different things.
A game can be difficult and friendly at the same time if it is patient enough to explain itself to newbies.
I guess I misunderstood you.
Well yeah, I'll be the first to point out that although community support for DW is generally very good, the most obvious thing we have all (the developers and the community) overlooked is a comprehensive tutorial mission and documentation set for every platform.
Cheers,
David
desertisland
03-30-07, 04:51 AM
Ouch, I hope Frying Tiger has a good sense of humor about himself. :)
Is he the graphic designer?
My apologies if I offend anyone.:o
but it is not my intention to throw accusations around, just providing my uninformed opinion...:yep:
LuftWolf
03-30-07, 06:04 AM
Is he the graphic designer?
He's the graphics design lead... and also currently a moderator on this forum and the representative of SCS to the community. :know:
I think he's used to it, after all he works for Sonalysts (a police state). :rotfl:
Cheers,
David
Gorshkov
03-30-07, 08:05 AM
Hi!
As for DW 1.04 graphics: It is good with LWAMI 3.08 mod except this nasty Akula 3D model! I have read here it is hard to replace by third-party moddlers because Akula is a playable unit.
Can't Sonalysts make any new Akula desing at all??? :-?
Sonalyst can't make anything anymore I'm afraid ..
Gorshkov
03-30-07, 12:42 PM
Sonalyst can't make anything anymore I'm afraid ..
I don't keep up with recent developments. So why they can't???
As for DW 1.04 graphics: It is good with LWAMI 3.08 mod except this nasty Akula 3D model! I have read here it is hard to replace by third-party moddlers because Akula is a playable unit.
Can't Sonalysts make any new Akula desing at all??? :-?
The SCX Akula model can the substituted for the DW Akula model with reasonable results for anyone that's willing to go through the trouble to learn how.
lb
Gorshkov
03-30-07, 12:59 PM
As for DW 1.04 graphics: It is good with LWAMI 3.08 mod except this nasty Akula 3D model! I have read here it is hard to replace by third-party moddlers because Akula is a playable unit.
Can't Sonalysts make any new Akula desing at all??? :-?
The SCX Akula model can the substituted for the DW Akula model with reasonable results for anyone that's willing to go through the trouble to learn how.
I am a newbie in this game so unfortunately I can't modify it yourself using game editors and other similar tools because of lack of necessary knowledge. Well, if it isn't possible to replace Akula model easily, I will rather stay with this ugly stock one...
PS. What is "SCX Aluka" model and where can I see it?
My impression is that the SH series are basically "Submarine Adventure Games", not really simulators per se.
YES !!! DW the real simulator
Permission of sh4 players:-? :up:
In www.simulacionnaval.com (http://www.simulacionnaval.com) all multiplayer misions for sh3 are historical by wolfpack strategy .
But in Pacific any submarine attack in strategy wolfpacks.
This is serius problem to play historical misions.Yes...in single is possible run sh4 to play historical missions .
DW?
No have for secrets reasons missions to play historical missions
But this is only real "simulator"
To be honest with you. With all the enthusiasm, and mod activity for the series, I'm thinking about going out and buying a copy of SHIV myself.
As for DW 1.04 graphics: It is good with LWAMI 3.08 mod except this nasty Akula 3D model! I have read here it is hard to replace by third-party moddlers because Akula is a playable unit.
Can't Sonalysts make any new Akula desing at all??? :-?
The SCX Akula model can the substituted for the DW Akula model with reasonable results for anyone that's willing to go through the trouble to learn how.
I am a newbie in this game so unfortunately I can't modify it yourself using game editors and other similar tools because of lack of necessary knowledge. Well, if it isn't possible to replace Akula model easily, I will rather stay with this ugly stock one...
PS. What is "SCX Aluka" model and where can I see it?
Ramius is showing off one of the models here and XabbaRus is showing an unfinished one (that was never released). http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=87722&highlight=Akula
Its not that difficulat to swap, as long after your comfortable with DWEdit. Look in the Mod forum for tips.
LuftWolf
04-02-07, 02:41 PM
Sonalyst can't make anything anymore I'm afraid ..
I don't keep up with recent developments. So why they can't???
I'm not exact sure they can't... in fact, it at least appears they are interested in fixing DW further, but it is hard to judge for actual fact, as opposed to appearances.
I'm hopeful they're not completely out of steam yet, but more patches just means more chances for them to mess something else up, so be careful what you wish for. SCS has a below average track record when it comes to creating new bugs in updates.
Cheers,
David
Kapitan
04-03-07, 04:26 PM
Still in command but taken a big break as i havnt been able to get online or even play DW for a while, so my submarine is in for major overhaul and refit :D
Frying Tiger
04-05-07, 08:29 AM
Now, now, I'd have to say our track record on creating new bugs in patches is actually quite above average.... (g,d,r)
Gorshkov
04-05-07, 09:01 AM
Now, now, I'd have to say our track record on creating new bugs in patches is actually quite above average.... (g,d,r)
Are you DW graphics designer? If so, I think new Akula 3D-model should be atop of your priority list! Each other playable sub is quite well modeled except this ugly Akula. She looks like being found in scrapyard...:cry:
PS. Second huge bug in the stock DW needed fixation is an issue of Russian 65 cm torpedo parameters. Where did you find such messy data about it??? Look at LWAMI mod for example. Implementation of its 65-76 torpedo data in the stock DW is the simplest way to correct this problem. ;)
Now, now, I'd have to say our track record on creating new bugs in patches is actually quite above average.... (g,d,r)
Are you DW graphics designer? If so, I think new Akula 3D-model should be atop of your priority list! Each other playable sub is quite well modeled except this ugly Akula. She looks like being found in scrapyard...:cry:
PS. Second huge bug in the stock DW needed fixation is an issue of Russian 65 cm torpedo parameters. Where did you find such messy data about it??? Look at LWAMI mod for example. Implementation of its 65-76 torpedo data in the stock DW is the simplest way to correct this problem. ;)
Man you really are naive if you expect another patch.
Gorshkov
04-05-07, 01:01 PM
Man you really are naive if you expect another patch.
Man, you are really a man of little faith...:rotfl:
Frying Tiger
04-05-07, 01:07 PM
Dr. Sid, no decision one way or the other has been made as to patches or add-ons or anything else about the future of DW. No point in driving off the few customers we have, okay? (grin)
I'm taking bug reports and suggestions, which should let you know everything is still on the table.
Tiger, I'm just teasing you to spill some info. It worked great on Jamie :up:
Frying Tiger
04-05-07, 02:32 PM
I figured that... Jamie warned me about you guys!
I honor of your attempt, I'll let you know Akula is the next model I'd like to redo as well, if I get the chance.
Gorshkov
04-05-07, 05:25 PM
I honor of your attempt, I'll let you know Akula is the next model I'd like to redo as well, if I get the chance.
Great news!
Having added new Akula 3D model this game will be just completed in the playable subs graphics area! :up:
Molon Labe
04-05-07, 08:40 PM
I honor of your attempt, I'll let you know Akula is the next model I'd like to redo as well, if I get the chance.
Great news!
Having added new Akula 3D model this game will be just completed in the playable subs graphics area! :up:
Not quite. The Kilo will still need a 3D prop.
Not that I mean to suggest that graphics should be a priority over, well, anything.
Frying Tiger
04-06-07, 08:27 AM
Yeah, well, graphics are my bag, baby!
Note that I'm not promising anything, just letting you know what I'd like. and the Kilo model would look much nicer with a 3d prop, wouldn't it?
The P-3 model could use some lovin' to lose the hump up forward, too! (grin)
If you whine a litlle more Tiger maybe some modder will listen to you :rotfl:
OneShot
04-06-07, 09:51 AM
On the P-3 issue ... I certainly would love to see a nice detailed modell. Question is ... will one of our resident model creators try creating one?
Cheers
OS
XabbaRus
04-06-07, 02:49 PM
Akula made but having hassle with the torp doors
goldorak
04-06-07, 02:51 PM
Akula made but having hassle with the torp doors
You finally fixed the sail issue ? :doh:
Awww... no love for the Seawolf? :(:cry:
I'm still around, guys. Just a alot shorter on time than I used to be. DW is just too time consuming for me right now, but I do miss it....
I even have my North Korea campaign all but finished! Just havent had the time to add the finishing touches and release it... :cry:
Sub Sailor
04-11-07, 12:58 PM
I prefer the Nuke subs, and 688i, SC with SCX, and DW, but I would buy SH4 but having to buy a new processor and video card puts it out of my reach at the moment.
I have read up on it and it certainly sounds like a great Sim, but I am unable to bear the cost of being able to play it.
Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret):damn:
Driftwood
04-14-07, 06:36 AM
Let's get a little love for the Seawolf! :D And while you're at it, dropping in a VA class would be nice! :up:
goldorak
04-14-07, 06:40 AM
Let's get a little love for the Seawolf! :D And while you're at it, dropping in a VA class would be nice! :up:
After the Akula. ;)
Lets have a high polygon model for the russian sub. :yep:
We poor russian skippers still have to take a sausage out to sea. :arrgh!: :rotfl:
TLAM Strike
04-15-07, 12:19 PM
Awww... no love for the Seawolf? :(:cry: Its the best looking sub model in the (default) game! :lol: Which isn't saying much I'm afraid... :-?
Awww... no love for the Seawolf? Its the best looking sub model in the (default) game! :lol: Which isn't saying much I'm afraid...
No way! Not even close!:lol: The dimensions are all wrong, and the aft control planes and propulsor are mal-formed :( ... The Kilo's pretty darn good for stock though.
TLAM Strike
04-18-07, 02:17 PM
The Kilo's pretty darn good for stock though.
As long as you don't look at the stern... :lol:
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