Porting SH3 ships to SH4 is possible! :) [Archive]

THE_ORZEL

03-21-07, 06:06 PM

I can confirm that porting SH3 ships to SH4 is possible. Just as soon as I got SH4 first thing I did was to make a fast and dirty convert of the Bismark to SH4. It worked fine no major changes needed textures work without converting them to dds. It was late when I made that mod and just didn’t have enough time to convert SH3 AI to SH4 but the one thing I tried was to make Bismark attack my submarine but it didn’t work.The ship's armament can be taken from original SH3 but you need to bring guns.dat and related gun files to the Library folder or just use original SH4 guns from other BB’s.Anyway to make a long story short it works of course more tweaks is needed but in general it is possible.I still want to port a player controlled U-boat to SH4 just to see how it works. This may be a bit more complex but since basic porting works this also should be doable. I wish you all happy modding unfortunately for me I have little time and real life is always preventing me from fully indulging myself in modding.Chris a.k.a. Orzel

Hitman

03-21-07, 06:28 PM

MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH!!!!!

Congratulations Orzel! This :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

I can already see Japanese subs at least as targets!!!!

CCIP

03-21-07, 06:37 PM

:up:

Go go modders!

This is gonna be great. I think the ship rosters can instantaneously be boosted by porting over some of the ships we have, assuming all goes smoothly.

It would also be amazingly cool to confirm that U-boats are addable. The fact that the devs have added another class in the upcoming patch sounds like it MAY just be possible :hmm:

Nightmare

03-21-07, 06:40 PM

Great news! My interest is more in the Pacific, but this great news! Perhaps we'll get that multi-theater game everyone wants! :D

d@rk51d3

03-21-07, 06:47 PM

Maybe we can get some Axis vs Allies MP going later? :hmm:

THE_MASK

03-21-07, 06:59 PM

hahahahaha:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Q: Donnerbote: Will it be technically possible to create an Atlantic mod for us German submarine admirals?
A: Admirals do not command submarines, right? Technically it is perfectly possible, though adding new 3D models is right now a little limted by the lack of a 3D exporter.

gnirtS

03-21-07, 06:59 PM

Looking at file structure etc it appears they've used the SH3 still for just about everything. That at least means porting things like ships, missions and other things should be easy.

Not amazing really given this game was meant to be a SH3 addon in first place.

AG124

03-21-07, 07:04 PM

If we can port SHIII ships, then we should easily be able to kitbash ships from SHIV models and import entirely new ones as well.:up: Eventually, at least.

Of the merchants ships in SHIII, some are already in the game and some are higher priority than others. If I list a ship that actually is in SHIV, then I apologize - I don't have a copy yet and am going by the reports of others.:oops:

Already in SHIV:

Troop Transport (NTR)
LST
T3 Tanker
Fishing Boat.
Trawler.
Tugboat.
Victory.
Liberty.

Higher Priority:
- Coastal Merchant.
- Small Merchant.
- Small Tanker.
- Sergbuto's NPTR clone.
- Sergbuto's NKGN clone.
- Small Coastal Vessel.

Lower Priority:
- Passenger Liner - too modern looking.
- C2 and C3 - I guess we could convert these, but I was hoping to never have to look at them again.:p
- T2 - Poor quality model.

Not sure what British warships are already in SHIV, but all stock US ones seem to be, except the J.C. Butler class (which we could add).

There might be some new SHIII models which could be imported as well, and maybe a few kitbashes (if we are allowed to import those) - although some of my merchants aren't really high enough quality for this game (maybe the Whale Factory and the Pyro would work). Iambecomelife's would definitely look good though.:hmm:

DiveMonkey

03-21-07, 07:08 PM

Does this mean it's possible to move the SH4 campaign to SH3???

I've heard good things about the new campaign, like special missions, rescues, secret ops :cool:

Some of that in SH3 would be very cool. Instead of the "go patrol this grid for 24hr's". :-?

Ducimus

03-21-07, 07:40 PM

Did you try and shoot a torpedo at it?

Are the zones working correctly for the ship?

THE_ORZEL

03-21-07, 07:58 PM

Yeah I did fire 4 torpedoes at it they all exploded and did damage plus I was firing a deck gun as well all hits seem to be working thus zones, water wake etc. is working as it should. It also sails as well I set it to 20 knots and it did. I just wasn't able to make it shoot at me but it was late last night and today I have little time as usual so I’ll leave it to you guys to figure it out more. From what I could notice is that the AI file is slightly different from original SH3 but nothing that can be modified or fixed.

Chris aka Orzel

Shigawire

03-21-07, 08:24 PM

YAY!

We need to merge or import the SH3 into the SH4 engine. With the european theatre being playable of course. I'm more a fan of German U-Boot. But the dynamic campaign in SH4 is much much better than SH3 could ever be. So if we can get a dynamic campaign equally enthralling for SH3 as for SH4 - we could have something very interesting.

P_Funk

03-21-07, 08:37 PM

If there is ever an SDK for SH4 then I don't think you'll be able to stop it from happening. :yep:

Ducimus

03-21-07, 08:42 PM

If there is ever an SDK for SH4 then I don't think you'll be able to stop it from happening. :yep:

I think you'll see an SDK for SH3 before SH4. And even that hasnt surfaced yet.

Sheppard

03-21-07, 09:26 PM

We do need to set up some rules tho; I mean, we can't just upload the Bismarck herself as an addon, since UBISOFT owns the 3d model; so perhaps a converter program needs to be written, so you can drag your SH3 Bismarck folder onto the converter, and out pops a "BismarckSH4" folder

Boris

03-21-07, 09:39 PM

Ubisoft technically owns any modification of the game that is made anyway. So if uploading Ubi property as mods was an issue, they would have stopped it a long time ago.

THE_MASK

03-21-07, 10:13 PM

Mods = way more game sales = UBI happy .

THE_ORZEL

03-21-07, 10:15 PM

Ok I got the Bismark working 100% the problem was double gun info in dat file from old original ships. You need to add only the 3d models and all info not to make doubles otherwise there is conflict. This won’t crash the game but you’ll get wired things in game. Or you can use existing gun links to 3d models and related info from SH4. It kind of look silly if you use King George’s V 14 inch on Bismark but if you don’t want to mess with more files and add more work then original guns from SH4 should work for the beginner.
Boris is right there should be no problem with ported ships.

Chris aka Orzel

elanaiba

03-22-07, 03:16 AM

Mods = way more game sales = UBI happy .

I could see a problem - not with me though - if for example people would buy sh4 and play sh3 in it, but not own sh3, if you get my drift....

On the other hand if people owning sh3 would buy sh4 just so they can play u-boot Kaleun with the improved technology, everything would be dandy.

Now that I think of it, you could for example make a mod that actually copies stuff from a SH3 installation to the SH4 one. So if the guy in question doesn't have sh3 installed, he can't use it. At least not so easy.

urfisch

03-22-07, 03:47 AM

one should give a try, if the sh3-mission files, or stuff like that also works in sh4...the hardest thing i guess, is to get working german subs in place of the us-ones...but, maybe this all is possible.

:hmm:

P_Funk

03-22-07, 05:13 AM

If there is ever an SDK for SH4 then I don't think you'll be able to stop it from happening. :yep:
I think you'll see an SDK for SH3 before SH4. And even that hasnt surfaced yet. I never understood the whole idea of guarding the source data anyway. Although off the top of my head maybe the Pacific Aces mod made them not want to let people potentially create a Pacific mod which would compete with SH4. But that aside it still isn't likely that. A good example is with Knights of the Old Republic 2. That game was severely rushed and there were huge amounts of the game left unfinished. Apparently an entire planet was left out of it. But people found the code for all this in the game files. There were even mountains of recorded dialogue for the parts that were axed.

Kotor2 was developed by Obsidian. Well LucasArts rushed it to release. In fact while Kotor 1 had nearly 3 years to develop Kotor2 had only just over 12 months. However Lucas also prevented Obsidian from creating a patch to add the removed content to the game. Apparently Obsidian wanted to do it for free, for the sake of thier reputation. They just stopped them. No answer just a severence of their professional relationship. I mean that doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't it sell better if there was an article in PC Gamer that stated that they had added huge amounts of content to the game and had made it totally complete? Lucas Arts shot themselves in the toe with that and it doesn't make any bit of sense to me at all. Though the stupidity and annoying Big Brotherness of Lucas can be seen in how Bioware, those seriously well respected and professionals, who made Kotor 1, were hasseled by Lucas Arts to the point that they refused to do Kotor 2.

From a capitalist point of view none of this makes any sense. Mods are the friends of games, particularly niche games like SH3. People still buy it for the mods. I don't bloody well understand! Is it some creepy proprietary sociopathic corporate thing where they don't like to relent their intellectual property rights? Bugger me I'm tired of capitalism... I'm moving to Sweden.:D

DMarkwick

03-22-07, 09:40 AM

I never understood the whole idea of guarding the source data anyway.

Well source data is owned data, by providing the data for a mod from an old game, you are distributing copyright data which is clearly excluded. It may be the case that the devs won't care too much about that (as long as the entire game is not made available) but of course UBI is made of people with no interest in subtleties, a blanket EULA agreement is easier on their working day than a specific exclusion for one instance of one game's modding.

It might make more sense to make the mod in the form of an executeable that first verifies the existence of SH3, perhaps even taking the data from it instead of including it in the mod.

3Jane

03-22-07, 09:48 AM

Maybe we can get some Axis vs Allies MP going later? :hmm:

What about playable Japanese subs/boats and the same for the allies in the atlantic. We could have an MP naval world war . A dynamic campaign played in 1x tc only. :p:rotfl::doh::doh:

AG124

03-22-07, 05:03 PM

Now that I am aware of the composition of the SHIV roster, I think we should convert some warships from SHIII to SHIV (some of these can also be stand-in's for now):

- UK Renown class Battlecruiser (if Gerome doesn't mind).
- UK Illustrious class CV.
- UK Revenge class BB.
- UK Dorchester class CA.
- UK J class DD.

There may be others - I just can't think of them right now.

CCIP

03-22-07, 05:51 PM

Was there not another American carrier somewhere? I distinctly recall an Essex class in one of the mods...

AG124

03-22-07, 07:11 PM

Yes, Cdre Gibs made an Essex class. It is a clone of the Illustrious though - I would rather see a new model for SHIV. I would also hesitate to import my own merchant kitbashes for the same reason - SHIV models have a higher level of detail and quality.:-?

Deep-Six

03-22-07, 07:20 PM

Tigrone

03-23-07, 12:13 AM

So,why not RN ships that were really were there. The Illustrious would be a lot better than just the one-of-a-kind Wasp.

Can a B-24 Liberator be imported too? Or, is a flight model a little too much to achieve.

THE_ORZEL

03-23-07, 01:29 AM

Guys after looking into SH4 I can tell you that basically it is SH3 file structure with minor changes. What is different is the graphics engine but file structure is virtually the same well almost alike. Adding liberator 24 is as easy as it can be almost copy and paste. The only thing needed to be changed in the liberator 24 is the eqp. (the equipment file with bomb load etc.) This file needs new entries added that’s all.

Adding SH3 objects to SH4 is easier than dealing with “windows vista ultimate” you can trust me on that ;)

PS. I just added stock Liberator 24 to SH4 and it even looks way better in SH4 than it was in SH3.

Chris aka Orzel

THE_ORZEL

03-23-07, 02:08 AM

Actually there is Liberator 24 or close looking bomber named long range bomber in SH4 already. But the original Liberator from SH3 looks nice too in SH4.

Chris aka Orzel

FIREWALL

03-23-07, 02:33 AM

Actually there is Liberator 24 or close looking bomber named long range bomber in SH4 already. But the original Liberator from SH3 looks nice too in SH4.

Chris aka OrzelYour work so far is really exciteing.:up:
I hope the planes can be brought over. The ones in SH-4 are imho
ATROCIUS. That B-24doesn't look like anyone i've ever seen. It looks
more German. Also the Corsair was big in the PTO.

Madox58

03-23-07, 03:06 AM

Models themselves, are no more complicated then in SH3.
It's all in the graphics engine.
Shouldn't take long to pump up to the SH4 standards.

urfisch

03-24-07, 08:07 AM

any news on that? anyone tried to import a sh3 commandroom into sh4? or any other interiour graphics?

THE_ORZEL

03-24-07, 05:52 PM

I have ported Type 2 and Type 7B as player controlled ships with interior. It works I had some few minor problems but it shouldn’t be that difficult for hardcore modders or even beginners.

In some instances you need to create don’t remember what now because I’m testing things out in general to see how far I can get, but in some cases you need to add things from dat sh3 to dat sh4 for it to work properly and do the same to related files.

PS. It’s safe to say or it’s a guarantee that in a short while you should see all SH3 ships (objects) including German playable subs ported to SH4 and ready as some sort of mod.

Chris

badhat17

03-24-07, 06:04 PM

Ubisoft technically owns any modification of the game that is made anyway. So if uploading Ubi property as mods was an issue, they would have stopped it a long time ago.

It has been an issue before and they did warn a mod group about making models available for download so I would tread carefully guys. :cool:

THE_ORZEL

03-24-07, 06:34 PM

All you have to do is mod that ship from original structure even minor change makes it legal to have it ready for mod. The only legal issue is if you would use it for different game or it was different company with different copyrights etc.

This is UBI and that Romanian software developer same as in SH3 so tell me how can it be illegal? All you do is promoting SH4 so that more people buy SH4. As far as SH3 well it is already outdated Sim and that’s why they did SH4. They made porting so easy my guess is that they hoped that people would port things from SH3 to SH4. It only benefits SH4 which is the game of today :) and not SH3 which is the game of yesterday.

Legal issue is to modify main exe that runs SH4 but nobody is doing that because there is no need for it unless someone makes a crack for the game which by modifying sh4.exe makes it illegal.

And if there is an issue then I’m sure they will contact SH4 community about it and let us know. Nobody is selling it or using it for material gain.

Badhat17 I like your flag! Arrr matey is it time to rape and pillage! ;)

Chris

matzeesn

03-24-07, 06:37 PM

How you get the type2/7 working? I tryed it too, but for now, my 7c is only in the museum. If I want to start a mission, the game switch to propoise, from which I took the files. I have a lot data manipulated, but I've no success, till now.

Greetings, Matze

THE_ORZEL

03-24-07, 06:41 PM

Just for testing I replaced few of the existing US subs.

Chris

matzeesn

03-24-07, 07:12 PM

Ah, ok. I'm trying to add the old subs.
Did you renamed the old subs to the us subs?

Matze

badhat17

03-24-07, 08:21 PM

Chris,

The previous issue that UBI had with us here was over the pacific aces mod which included models ported from destroyer command into the PA mod for SH2. They were not happy that whoever downloaded the mod would be able to use models from a game they had never bought. Some agreement was reached although I do not know the details of that but I am sure you will agree that it would be a similiar situation if somebody was to make available a mod which allowed a user of SH4 to import models from SH3 and the mod itself included the models.
If the models are user modded from original UBI models then they would still remain the property of UBI .
I never said anything about any legal issues, all I said was tread carefully. At the end of the day I think we would all agree that permission should be sought concerning this, that is only fair. I would not like it if somebody was taking food from my table without asking first.
I have no idea how you came to the conclusion I was promoting SH4 at all, if anything I am saying buy SH3 as well.

Madox58

03-24-07, 08:27 PM

If Ubi is gonna break out the Ruler and slap our hands,
It will come pretty soon.
Seems to me that they left this all WIDE OPEN by design!
It would have been SO easy to prevent it!!!

AG124

03-24-07, 08:54 PM

Also, it's not as if someone is providing Ubisoft's intellectual property for use with another company's game. The models are being imported into one Ubisoft game from another.:yep: This, of course, is still legally preventable by Ubisoft, but the point is that they should worry about abuse of their property, as it is being contained within their own games.

THE_MASK

03-24-07, 08:56 PM

I dont see a problem adding SH3 stuff to SH4 . More sales for SH4 . I do see a problem adding SH4 stuff to SH3 .

Madox58

03-24-07, 09:03 PM

Some of that will most likely be a hardcode issue.
How do you add the parachute guys to SH3?
If no trigger is in SH3 than can't be robbed over.
Dats use some different scheme for skins.
I DOUBT a quick swap will work as I have not seen
this done yet.
It seems to be a two way street with a Bobby directing
traffic!!
:rotfl: :rotfl:

THE_MASK

03-24-07, 09:06 PM

I dont mean a problem literally converting SH4 to SH3 , i meam ethically .

AG124

03-24-07, 09:11 PM

Yes, I imagine Ubisoft wouldn't want the features of their brand new game ported to an older game which has already gained most of its sales for the company (which would be a perfectly reasonable position, IMO). I agree with you about the opposite though - SHIII has been out for a long time now, and taking things from it to improve the new game shouldn't be a moral problem (although a legal one, which just may annoy them although I don't think so).

Madox58

03-24-07, 09:14 PM

I dont mean a problem literally converting SH4 to SH3 , i meam ethically .

Ah, Yes. I see your point.
But like Religion and Politics, I won't debate there. :yep:
Time seems to handle ethics.
I recall the great debate over Survivors in SH3
but that went out the window REAL quick
once it was announced SH4 would have them.
Now we find you can blow em to the next Life?
I wonder how many Survivors have been Gunned down so far?

THE_ORZEL

03-24-07, 09:43 PM

Matzeesn,
Yes I just renamed German subs to US subs.

Badhat17 to be honest with you, comparing SH3 to SH4 is like comparing an older lady of 65 to a young chick of 21 there is no compression :) at least graphically speaking lol.

3d models from SH3 though they look better in SH4 are still much more inferior to SH4 3d models not just the textures.

You right, you didn’t say illegal ok but what did you meant then by saying and I quote you “so I would tread carefully guys.” Like I said if there is going to be an issue they sure will let us know. As far as I can see their work is been reused and I repeat reused in their new game.

It’s more concerning about people pirating SH4 game than actually porting 3d models from an older game to new game. And if they say it is illegal than how can you tell if someone modifies original SH3 3d models and call it his own. From my own experience it can be easily done. And believe me if they forbid people to port SH3 3d models then you’ll see many of them pirated I mean modified and called as someone else’s 3d models.

PS Why the negative thinking what will be will be for now let’s have fun modding SH4 and leave speculations alone or to official UBI judgment.

Chris.

JScones

03-24-07, 09:52 PM

I must admit I am keen to gauge Ubi's reaction to all of this - be it positive or negative.

Only time will tell I guess. ;)

Madox58

03-24-07, 09:56 PM

Right now, we are all Moles.
Anyone Remember the game Whack A Mole?
We are just popping up and waiting to be whacked!
:rotfl: :rotfl:

THE_ORZEL

03-24-07, 11:28 PM

Well I hope UBI will be reasonable I own all Il2 series up to IL1946, SH3 and SH4 I paid for all of my games and I respect copyrights. So I hope they’ll make the just decision after all aren’t we all just having fun with SH4 here?

Personally I don’t see SH4 been hurt financially by modding it. I think if it wasn’t for modding SH3 it would be a dead game a long time ago. The exception is IL2 if the developers didn’t supported IL2 on a regular basis by means of free upgrades and retail add-ons. I don’t think it would have lasted long without any mods.

So I truly think that porting ships from SH3 to SH4 benefits all new players, old players, all modders and UBI.

If they say no then I’m sure many people will collect petitions to allow public porting of SH3 objects to SH4 :)

If not then people would still do it be it in private communities or by other means like modifying original SH3 ship so it would not be recognizable as SH3 original ship.

Chris

Madox58

03-24-07, 11:41 PM

Well, here's my stance.
Tell me NO MORE, I dump the games and move to another
like Neverwinter or such.
I do it for the modding and I pay the money.
Don't want my money?
No problem.
Plenty of games out there to mod.
I'm not makeing a dime and don't care.
Ubi gains kudos and bucks as they should!!!
If it was not for the modders here before me,
Ubi would never have done SH4 anyway.
I've had SH3 since the day it came out
and just came back in December or so
cause of the GW team!!!
Not Ubi!!!
So Ubi got my 50+ dollars
for SH4 because of the mod work!!!