[REL]Visual and Hydrophone detection issue: a new workaround

[Rubini]

Update Released!
March 29, 2007
"Stay Alert - crew fix" mod for GWX and Stock game version 1.c
This is a 8km version only.
This version have the new fix for the visual airplanes detection.
================================================== ==================
Here the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/23281282/Stay_Alert__crew_fix_v1c.7z.html

Notice that inside you have two versions:GWX and stock. Install only the correct one for your game after adjust the file structure.
JSGME ready after choose your version to use.
Please read the readme inside.

Any feedback is welcome!

Thanks mates!:up:

Rubini.




================================================== ======================
================================================== ======================
First post:
================================================== ======================

I'm working on a complete revision of the Visual and Hidrophone detection issue. These two are very important and at same time bugged conditions of the game.

================================================== =====================


The problems:

a) Visual detection
In stock Sh3 and mainly after 16km mod we have two main problems on the Visual detection, some of them continue present even in the big mods.

1.The more easily noticiable stock problem with Visual detection by player crew is that the player frequently can spot the ships far before the most skilled crew, sometimes so annoying that even with external camera you can see the smokes and the crew stay blind!
Some players could prefer this way, they then can then detect the ships before the crew...but sometimes the crew is so blind that the first thing that you will see is a warship firing at you! Needs fix!

2.The other, which appears or become worst after the 16km mod, is that the player crew frequently is blind at fog conditions. This appears because ppl tried to solve that vampire night vision - 16km mod related, also present in stock, just less noticiable- and to soften this problem they introduced a annoying side effect: blind crew at fog conditions.

Also frequently the big mods uses the same sensors files for both mods: 16km and 8km what makes the 8km blind crew even worst!

The vampire night crew don't have a good solution (is in truth a stock bug) and if you try to fix it you always will make the crew blind at fog at some level. So, whatever solution that we acquire for the first problem we will also make the vampire night vision a bit more noticiable again. This is why I will at first only work with 8km installations.

b)Hydrophone detection
Here we have 5 main problems. Anyway some of them are a bit more subjetive problems, so if somebody have others results/comments let me know.

1. The player can always detect ships far before the more skilled crew. Just make a full stop and you can listen a single small merchant at least 30km away. A skilled crew only will detect this same ship 17-20km away at best. The player ability to detect at 30km is hardcoded and can't be fixed. I tried to mess with the hydrophones on sensors.dat and also raising the ambient_hydrophone sound but no dice.

2. The crew only have ability to follow nearest contact order for contacts at 25km or less even after changing the settings for max distance on sensors.dat file or adjusting the sensors.cfg. Seems that this is also hardcoded or will mess with a lot of others things to fix it.

3. You only will see the ship identification on notepad on Hydrophone room after you are at least at less than 10km of a ship. Before this or is not possible to have a identification or you have a "unknow contact" on the notepad. Seems that this is also hardcoded or will mess with a lot of others things to fix it.

4. SH3 don't shows differences distances to detect a warship, a single merch or a convoy. However, in real life these are very different conditions like you can see below during WWII:

If a submarine speed was 4 knots, the submarine's underwater sound detector average distance of detecting another object was:
- for a destroyer- 5 to 10 nautical miles,
- for a cargo ship- 3.5 to 7.5 nautical miles,
- for a convoy- up to 50 nautical miles.

Uboat.net has a article regarding underwater sound detection here
http://uboat.net/articles/id/52

5. I also don't see any difference when tried to mess with the hydrophones settings on sensors.cfg for sea state. So the same detection distance for a calm day or for a 15m/s day is present.

Obviously the final detection distance is always a bit random (not always the exactly same valour) and the max distance is easily adjusted on sensors.dat files but with the limitations exposed above.

The proposal workaround:
(First of all don't forget that a skilled crew is always necessary)

For the visual problem
-make the crew and the player see the smokes/ships at the same time to have a better behaviour in TC...and I think that you don't want to sail far away with a dumb crew, no?
-stop with the blind crew at fog conditions.
-also make the max distance the major possible to improve realism.

For the Hidrophone problem
-Make the max range detection the same for crew and player.
-make the max crew distance detection a bit major (25km) to have a better middle ground between a single merch detection and a convoy. 25 km to avoid the follow nearest contact min distance bug.

Possible side effects/limitations/actual stage of the mod:

-The visual problem is already fixed and tested for the 3 main goals: crew and player see now the ships almost at same time and no more blind crew in fog conditions The max distance is now also better than before. But take in mind that the vampire nigt vision crew is present but not more than stock in 8km. Notice that these fix break partially the Long range Gunnery mod present on GWX. The LRG mod is not well fitted for Sh3 anyway as it is now on GWX and in truth have more side effects than good things IMHO. However the good things of LRG mod will yet stay intact.

-The player will continue to listen far before the crew on hydrophones. It's possible to make the crew listen at 30km (raising the max distances for hydrophones on sensors.dat) but this brakes the "follow nearest contact" order (after 25km) and is to much for single ships. So I will go with a middle ground without brake the "follow nearest contact" order. The player needs to avoid to cheat the game using the hydrophones unless when you are following a convoy which in RL could be listen even far way than the 30km present on SH3. The crew will now always listen at 20-25km anyway, what is far more useful.

Any idea/comment is welcome!
I intend to release the mod in few days.

[bigboywooly]

Nice one mate

Now stop talking and get on with it
Before you disappear for the weekend again
:rotfl:



:up:

[poor sailor]

I will wait for your mod!:up: Keep up the good work!

[HanSolo78]

Will this be an independent mod or a gwx only?

[Rubini]

Will this be an independent mod or a gwx only?
At first for GWX. But the essence is just corrected settings on sensors files (sim.cfg, sensors.cfg, sensors.dat and AI_sensors.dat) and my start point is the stock not the GWX settings. So I gues that in the end will be suitable for GWX and any stock installation. I just yet don't know how it will be fit for NYGM though. (IIRC NYGM only uses 16km).

[EmeAzul]

Rubini, this looks very promising and seems to adress a couple of real issues, which I for one would like to see solved. On the visual one, our having the ability to see better than the crew just doesn't make sense, although you can certainly keep the simulation going with the issue.

The Hydrophone one, however, is a bigger problem in that your sub may be missing out on some good enemy traffic, due to your crew not hearing the hydro sounds correctly. Anything that restores this capability would be a big plus for me.

I was curious about one thing though and that was your comment about making these changes for the 8Km version before moving on to the 16Km version. Wouldn't the changes to the sensor files affect both versions?
I'm on the 16Km version. Thx EmeAzul (Brasileiro transplantado)

[Rubini]

Olá EmeAzul!
Hi EmeAzul!

Yes, obviously the same files are used for both versions (8km and 16km). But what is evident after you work a bit with the settings is that they need to be at least slight different to avoid some side effects here or there for each mod.

Rubini, this looks very promising and seems to adress a couple of real issues, which I for one would like to see solved. On the visual one, our having the ability to see better than the crew just doesn't make sense, although you can certainly keep the simulation going with the issue.

The Hydrophone one, however, is a bigger problem in that your sub may be missing out on some good enemy traffic, due to your crew not hearing the hydro sounds correctly. Anything that restores this capability would be a big plus for me.

I was curious about one thing though and that was your comment about making these changes for the 8Km version before moving on to the 16Km version. Wouldn't the changes to the sensor files affect both versions?
I'm on the 16Km version. Thx EmeAzul (Brasileiro transplantado)

[gabeeg]

This is great! My biggest pet peeve with SHIII is that I can get on the hydrophones and hear very distinct and obvious warship screws and my crew does nothing. If you can solve this in anyway (what you have suggested already seems an excellent solution) I will be a very happy man. Good luck!

P.S. I am using a modded stock install with 8km atmosphere...sounds like this will be indeed compatible...I hope it will.

[danurve]

This "sounds" interesting indeed if it can be used outside of gwx.
Something to help resolve the retarded sonarman deal.

http://mysh3.info/WAC/images/wac_2.jpg

[Reece]

That's good news Rubini, I use 8km & the main problem is the hydrophones, when submerged there are no reports from hydraphone yet on external camera there is a ship above, probably within 2km, but hydraphone reports "Unknown Contact" and this is not in a blind spot, I assume hydraphone should find a known contact way before a visual one! :-?
Sometimes I click on "follow nearest contact" I get the report "No Contact", so I manually listen & shows contact type warship, I then click on "follow nearest contact" and away they go! I'm sure their asleep sometimes!! This may be another problem though!:oops:
Thanks.

[HEMISENT]

Hi Rubini
Sounds great and looking forward to it. If anyone can do it you can. Keep up the good work.

[It762]

Hi there!

maybe a suggestion to "workaround" the fog problem (vampire sight) by limiting the density fo the fog. In otherwords - At the moment fog can limit visibility to as much as 250 metres. How about changing this to like 600 metres, so crew will spot ships when you really see them. Otherwise its just cheating and annoying anyway if the ai crew sees ships that a player doesn't.

hope i understood it correctly.

[Rubini]

Here the first comparison table results for GWX 8km (default), stock SH3 and the new workaround on sensors.

First of all take in mind that SH3 have a good default random results on these numbers, isn't always the same result for the same condition. It's better speaking in probability for band of results.

I tested in 3 differents times during day, so the day time results are an average results. I also tested at deep night. I don't noticed so much difference between 6m/s or 12 m/s. Seems that Sh3 don't put so much waves/wind on the formula in the end.

Like I said I tested each fog condition in 3 different times per day plus one at night at least 6 times each one...was really a big and tedious work ; ).
The results are quite curious. The Devs made the crew blind probably thinking that the players could like to detect the ships by yourself...but this makes the crew too dumb for serious players. Here the table (it's not easy to make a good table with the forum text editor no?):

1. For GWX 8km, Stock or these new settings the player always can see using binoculars at these distances max:

No fog, daytime: 9000m...............................at night: 8200m
Light fog, day time: 5500m...........................at night: 5300m
Medium fog, day time: 2500m........................at night: 2300m
Heavy fog, day time: 350m...........................at night: 300m

Notice that we don't have so much difference between day and night for the players eyes. Obviously at night also depends on what Env files you are using. The more darker, more difficult to see. Anyway why these values (night and day) are so close? It's because Sh3 have preset distances where the fog is put on and is the same for night and day (sky dome and fog)! So even if you make the sensors very larger in distances and the crew start to see longer the player only will start to see anything at the above distances anyway.


2.Now the main results for the crew:

Day time(distance in meters when the crew start to see the ships in 90% of the time):
......................GWX(crew).....Stock(crew)... .....new settings(crew).......max player eyes
No fog...........7400-8100A......6800-7900...........8700-9200......................9000
Light Fog.......4100-4400A......4200-4500..........5700-4900.......................5500
Med. Fog.......1800-2100A......1600-1900A........2000-2600......................2500
Heavy Fog.......280-300AA.......220-300AA.........300-350A........................350



Night time:
...................GWX(crew).........Stock(crew).. .....new settings(crew).......max player eyes
No fog..........6700-7900..........5700-6600..........7000-8400....................8200
Light Fog......3800-4100..........3500-4300..........4500-5200....................5300
Med. Fog......1700-1900A........1500-1900A.......1800-2300....................2300
Heavy Fog....NoEncounter?.......150-200A...........200-300A.....................300

Comments:
1. Notice that with the new settings the crew and the player "see" almost at same time now.
2. At night is not so important to see at same time because is very difficult to see anything anyway.
3. These new settings have a slight more vampire vision at clear nights with calm weather but this is the unique small side effect. And this isn't a so frequent condition (weather) in game. This happens because the new settings are in truth a "11 km mod" with better adjusted sensors files. I limited to 9300 the max distance for visual detection by the crew because the game don't draw anything before 9000m (unless if we have a new sky dome and scenes.dat adjusts). This will avoid eagle eyes on the crew.
Just as an example, FYI, Manuel Ortega made a new sky dome and others adjusts on scene.dat to make the game start to draw at far away for 16kmod. ; )
4.Stock and GWX have a very blind dumb crew for visual purposes. Notice that in GWX frequently the player is attacked first!! This is a mix of blind crew and LRG mod (but can be and must be adjusted by the team)
==>A=frequently attacked first,
==>AA=always attacked first.
5. The new settings also made the crew better to detect (visually) airplanes.
6. At night and with fog the results are more random. With heavy fog is better to only stay at surface if you have a radar! (for all settings).
7. The game is really far better to play now! Seems more intelligent.

Tomorrow I will post about the hydrophones adjusts and results.

[It762]

This sounds so good i would like to use it. If needed I come back with some range results if you want after I played a bit. I would use it in combination with RuB1.45

[Rubini]

This sounds so good i would like to use it. If needed I come back with some range results if you want after I played a bit. I would use it in combination with RuB1.45

Yes, thankyou. Any feedback after the release will be welcome. Some fine tunning could be always needed.;)

[Jimbuna]

This looks very promising sir....looking forward to this :up: :arrgh!:

[Lanzfeld]

This sounds great but I would be worried that it will break something in GWX without us knowing it.

[Reece]

I'm not!!:lol: if your using JSGME then you can always uninstall it, nothing ventured nothing gained!:yep:

[Dantenoc]

Thanks Rubini, this adjustments that you speak of are sorely needed in GWX. My sub just got surprised by a destroyer in a clear night. I only noticed it because I could hear someone firing a deck gun... after manualy droping down the TC (even though it should drop automatically when being hunted) I found myself face to face with a destroyer firing at me!!! I barely had time to order crash dive and was still hit by the destroyer running over me, and all the while, my bridge crew never acknowleged seeing anything :nope:

I survived but really, things like this take away from the gaming experience.

Thanks again for your work and I'm looking forward to instaling your mod/tweak :up:

[Txema]

Really looking forward to this mod !!!

:sunny:

Thank you !!!


Txema

[Rubini]

The mod is ready!
I will release at the weekend.

But I should like some beta testers first .
Please PM me if you can test it.
I guess that it´s already the final version so the guys who will test could have it now!;)

It´s JSGME ready, so if you don´t like it just uninstall it.

Thanks!

[Reece]

I thought you'd forgotten us!:cry: Playing SH4!;) I have PM'd you with my email for testing.

[Rubini]

Yes, send me a PM with your email and also what mods are you using!
I made a GWX and Stock version. Also with some choices: a slight more easy AI for GWX that uses Jungman excellent AI_sensors settings (that can be used also for stock). The sensors.dat have also two versions: a GWX one and the stock with Stiebler´s radar fix.

Later I can also add this fix to Ducimus'/NYGM Ai_sensors for GWX.

I guess that we will have the best options!;)

[Reece]

My PM will give you a headache!!:rotfl:

[Rubini]

My PM will give you a headache!!:rotfl:

Sure! LMAO!:D

[Reece]

This always happens, have to take a leave of absense, will be away for a couple of days, what a poo!:damn::oops:
Please others offer testing as well, I will continue Sunday.:yep:
Cheers.

[Rubini]

I forgot to say that the mod is for 8km users only.
If it works as intend and the ppl really want it (SH4 arrived, our audience will drop for sure) I can look at 16km later.

Rubini.

[poor sailor]

I'm now using 16km mod but looking for your mod and then will start to use 8km mod. I'm now started patrol in WaW and cannot try your beta mod, sorry, maybe if finish patrol earlier I'll contact you to send the mod to me. Also Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM is for 16km and I'm using it right now, but as I said looking for your mod to be released. Thanks for your work!:up:

[Rubini]

If you want it you can install mid patrol without problem. Just goes to 8km first (Env files and scenes.dat).:yep:

I'm now using 16km mod but looking for your mod and then will start to use 8km mod. I'm now started patrol in WaW and cannot try your beta mod, sorry, maybe if finish patrol earlier I'll contact you to send the mod to me. Also Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM is for 16km and I'm using it right now, but as I said looking for your mod to be released. Thanks for your work!:up:

[poor sailor]

If you want it you can install mid patrol without problem. Just goes to 8km first (Env files and scenes.dat).:yep:

I'm now using 16km mod but looking for your mod and then will start to use 8km mod. I'm now started patrol in WaW and cannot try your beta mod, sorry, maybe if finish patrol earlier I'll contact you to send the mod to me. Also Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM is for 16km and I'm using it right now, but as I said looking for your mod to be released. Thanks for your work!:up:
So, I must do disable in JSGME Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM and then GWX 16km mod and I may use your mod in the middle of patrol?! If so this will be great, In my patrol grid there is convoys and I will test your mod well.

[poor sailor]

Rubini, You have a PM !;)

[Jimbuna]

Testing GWX v1.03 right now but am definitely interested in a 16km mod :arrgh!:

[poor sailor]

Testing GWX v1.03 right now but am definitely interested in a 16km mod :arrgh!:
How it's going with 1.03? Will soon be released?

[Jimbuna]

Testing GWX v1.03 right now but am definitely interested in a 16km mod :arrgh!:
How it's going with 1.03? Will soon be released?

Very soon now....possibly within the week :arrgh!:

[Rubini]

I'm now using 16km mod but looking for your mod and then will start to use 8km mod. I'm now started patrol in WaW and cannot try your beta mod, sorry, maybe if finish patrol earlier I'll contact you to send the mod to me. Also Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM is for 16km and I'm using it right now, but as I said looking for your mod to be released. Thanks for your work!:up:[/quote]
So, I must do disable in JSGME Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM and then GWX 16km mod and I may use your mod in the middle of patrol?! If so this will be great, In my patrol grid there is convoys and I will test your mod well.[/quote]

Well, this new mod can be enabled middle patrol without problems...but I dunno about Ducimus files and the Env/scene dat. I guess that is better to you to wait a new patrol.:hmm:

Or just try it. If your patrol don´t start after all you always can redone yours changes using JSGME...

Later i will also provide a version with Ducimus' files.

[poor sailor]

I'm now using 16km mod but looking for your mod and then will start to use 8km mod. I'm now started patrol in WaW and cannot try your beta mod, sorry, maybe if finish patrol earlier I'll contact you to send the mod to me. Also Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM is for 16km and I'm using it right now, but as I said looking for your mod to be released. Thanks for your work!:up:
So, I must do disable in JSGME Ducimus sensors mod from NYGM and then GWX 16km mod and I may use your mod in the middle of patrol?! If so this will be great, In my patrol grid there is convoys and I will test your mod well.[/quote]

Well, this new mod can be enabled middle patrol without problems...but I dunno about Ducimus files and the Env/scene dat. I guess that is better to you to wait a new patrol.:hmm:

Or just try it. If your patrol don´t start after all you always can redone yours changes using JSGME...

Later i will also provide a version with Ducimus' files.[/QUOTE]
Well, the Ducimus mod contains directories: air, cfg, library, sea and in that directories are only the sensors files. Maybe I could try it to disable that mod and the GWX 16km mod and then install your mod, or to wait?:hmm: Anyway You could send me the mod by e-mail I sent to you in PM.

[Rubini]

@poor sailor
Email sent!

=============================
I myself have the first feedback:

I noticed one problem (in truth a Sh3 engine problem):

Looking at external camera or even when you are at the Observation tower, Sh3 don´t show anything in front of you in angle of more or less 120 to 150 degrees until you reach 5500m from the ship in a light fogged day. This is ok.. But on the edges you can see sometimes a smoke more than 8km even with light fog.
So, for the same weather condition you have in truth 2 possible distances to see things on the horizon (SH3 stock engine bug). The first one, more short, is the correct in this case - 5500m for a clear light fogged day. The second one, on the edges, is the wrong one, more than 8000m for a clear light fogged day. (we are speaking about 8km installations)

So the fix will works for the first correct situation. But not for the second wrong one. Anyway this is more noticiable only on the above condition and is far better than the GWX original or stock anyway, where your crew only will detect the ships 3500m away on this case. The fix will detect them 5400m away.;)

[EmeAzul]

Rubini, Oi Paulista! I'm very encouraged by your results thus far on the 8Km version, so when you have a chance to do the same with the 16Km version, I would be really interested. I'm not sure I would be a good tester for you, since I use so many mods over GWX 1.02 (40 & counting), but I'll give it a shot if you like.

As much as I would like to return to the Pacific (SH1 & SH2-PA), due to computer limitations, I'll be staying with SH3 for the foreseable future. No doubt there are others in the same "boot", as well as folks who prefer the increasingly higher tension of the Atlantic war. Chau

[poor sailor]

Well, I'm successeful installed your mod. Now finishing my WaW patrol with your visual and hydrophone settings. Also I installed your mix mod for lighter 8km and open hatch by diving duck. First experience I had with airplane, (1943 year, have a FUMO30 installed) crew tells me "Aircraft spotted" at 5.5km on map (calm sea, clear night without clouds), and I immediately crash dived safely. Now looking for ships. Thanks for your work, I will posted the results but only I haven't external camera enabled but I think that is no need.

[Rubini]

Well, I'm successeful installed your mod. Now finishing my WaW patrol with your visual and hydrophone settings. Also I installed your mix mod for lighter 8km and open hatch by diving duck. First experience I had with airplane, (1943 year, have a FUMO30 installed) crew tells me "Aircraft spotted" at 5.5km on map (calm sea, clear night without clouds), and I immediately crash dived safely. Now looking for ships. Thanks for your work, I will posted the results but only I haven't external camera enabled but I think that is no need.

Thanks mate!

All the settings can be fine adjust if needed. In game is always slight different from the results that we get on a controled "always the same group of environments".
The airplanes spotting issue can be easily adjusted. ;)

[Jan Kyster]

Mail report sent :ping:

SO seems to have a gap between - in this first case - 25.5km and 10.0km, where he reports "No sounds contact, Sir!" Tried different depth with same result. After picking up sound again at 10km, he was able to keep it.

All the way to "She's going down...." :arrgh!:

[Rubini]

I setted all the hydrophones to max range=30000 and precise range=28000 on the files that you are using. In my tests they always get the contact and follow them correctly.

Let´s wait more reports.;)

Mail report sent :ping:

SO seems to have a gap between - in this first case - 25.5km and 10.0km, where he reports "No sounds contact, Sir!" Tried different depth with same result. After picking up sound again at 10km, he was able to keep it.

All the way to "She's going down...." :arrgh!:

[shegeek72]

Eagerly waiting for this one! :up: The dumb crew was always a liability. :nope:
--
http://tarafoundation.org/sh3_wac_banner3.jpg
sub skin, many sound tweaks, new video card (woopee!)

[Rubini]

Second report.

Type VIIb (using DD awesome new interiors!)
Jan 31, 1940
Grid AM53
6m/s, partial cloudy, light fog, day time.

Received 2 convoy radio reports but at long distance.
Then ordered to 25m to try any other contact.
As soon as the boat was at 12m my SO listenned a single contact 17km SSE medium speed!
Ok. Surfaced and start to run full ahead to intercept the target.
Minutes later my WO: visual contact at 5700 200degree. I barely could see the smoke in horizon! Bingo! the mod is working!:up:

More some minutes later I ordered PD to start the submerged torpedo procedures...then my SO: Sound contact Sir! merchant bering 021, long range. He listenned a convoy 27km away! Bingo again!

It´s a pleasure to have a smart and well trainned crew now!
This is now a challenge game as it should be since the first day!:arrgh!:

Rubini.

[Jimbuna]

Second report.

Type VIIb (using DD awesome new interiors!)
Jan 31, 1940
Grid AM53
6m/s, partial cloudy, light fog, day time.

Received 2 convoy radio reports but at long distance.
Then ordered to 25m to try any other contact.
As soon as the boat was at 12m my SO listenned a single contact 17km SSE medium speed!
Ok. Surfaced and start to run full ahead to intercept the target.
Minutes later my WO: visual contact at 5700 200degree. I barely could see the smoke in horizon! Bingo! the mod is working!:up:

More some minutes later I ordered PD to start the submerged torpedo procedures...then my SO: Sound contact Sir! merchant bering 021, long range. He listenned a convoy 27km away! Bingo again!

It´s a pleasure to have a smart and well trainned crew now!
This is now a challenge game as it should be since the first day!:arrgh!:

Rubini.

Congrats Rubini :up:
Don't forget the 16km pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze :lol:

[poor sailor]

Congratulations Rubini for your results, I will play tonight and maybe tomorrow posted more results, but for now everythings looks fine for me. :up:

[Shepelly]

Second report.

Type VIIb (using DD awesome new interiors!)
Jan 31, 1940
Grid AM53
6m/s, partial cloudy, light fog, day time.

Received 2 convoy radio reports but at long distance.
Then ordered to 25m to try any other contact.
As soon as the boat was at 12m my SO listenned a single contact 17km SSE medium speed!
Ok. Surfaced and start to run full ahead to intercept the target.
Minutes later my WO: visual contact at 5700 200degree. I barely could see the smoke in horizon! Bingo! the mod is working!:up:

More some minutes later I ordered PD to start the submerged torpedo procedures...then my SO: Sound contact Sir! merchant bering 021, long range. He listenned a convoy 27km away! Bingo again!

It´s a pleasure to have a smart and well trainned crew now!
This is now a challenge game as it should be since the first day!:arrgh!:

Rubini.

Mate, this is fantastic, where do we get it:up:

[von Zelda]

Rubini, I played around with some minor changes to the sensor.dat file with fairly good results when I first began playing the SH3 stock version. The two main areas that I tried changing were visual identification distance and hydrophone identification distance. I think I got visual identification up to around 9000 meters.

I did not make these changes when I switched to Grey Wolves and then to GWX because I felt the developers surely had a handle on this.

I am eagerly waiting to see your mod.

[HEMISENT]

Hi Rubini
Great work as always. looks like you've solved one of the problems that has plagued us since the beginning. I really would like to see this in the 16km version if that can be fitted into your schedule. I play with GWX now exclusively and for WAW I like the longer range.

Keeping a close eye on this topic.

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini
Great work as always. looks like you've solved one of the problems that has plagued us since the beginning. I really would like to see this in the 16km version if that can be fitted into your schedule. I play with GWX now exclusively and for WAW I like the longer range.

Keeping a close eye on this topic.

Hi Hemisent!
How are you mate?
I see you other post, sorry, busy RL and I miss the time to reply...

I only will start to mess with 16km after have sure that all is working as intend in 8km. Then perhaps in a week. Any help will be welcome too!;)
The feedback of the first ppl that are using the mod is really necessary to fine adjust if needed.

[Kpt. Kozloff]

Hi Rubini,
Looking forward to it.
How do the sensors from this mod compare to these from Atmosphere Mod 8km version 2.0? (a bit ancient history, i know)
Thanks.

[Rubini]

Rubini, I played around with some minor changes to the sensor.dat file with fairly good results when I first began playing the SH3 stock version. The two main areas that I tried changing were visual identification distance and hydrophone identification distance. I think I got visual identification up to around 9000 meters.

I did not make these changes when I switched to Grey Wolves and then to GWX because I felt the developers surely had a handle on this.

I am eagerly waiting to see your mod.

Thanks for the interest!

Yes, the mod is in truth only fine adjusting on the sensors files. Frequently the stock settings are very near of the best ones.
I always thought that when you mess so much with these settings soon you will not more knows exactly what are you doing and an unbalanced gameplay await you in the end. The worst is that you will not notice the side effects...

With this in mind and after these two years of accumulated knowledge by this community i started again from the stock settings to do this. Trust me, few changes are needed to acquire the best results on this matter.;)

[Kpt. Kozloff]

Hi,
Sorry to bug you with yet another "silly" question but is using the stock scene.DAT file going to cause any incompatibility with your mod, even when used with GWX?
Thanks.

[Rubini]

Hi,
Sorry to bug you with yet another "silly" question but is using the stock scene.DAT file going to cause any incompatibility with your mod, even when used with GWX?
Thanks.

This mod uses only four files: Sensors.cfg and Sensors.dat (these two are player/uboat crew related) and Sim.cfg and Ai_Sensors.dat (AI related only).

The Scene.dat from GWX 8km (default) is compatible with the stock one but if you use the stock one you will lose the clouds fix and moon reflection at least.

[poor sailor]

My report is very similar to Rubini's. Have a large convoy contact at 22.5km hydrophone and visual spotting target at 5.1km. Early morning, light fog and wind 7m/s.

[von Zelda]

When do you plan to release the mod? Sounds like all the tests are coming out just fine.

[Jan Kyster]

Have tried now with a "clean" install - which btw. made my last patrol invalid. It had an carrier down in it :damn: :rotfl:

...but there are still issues with SO loosing contact between 20 and 10km? And sometimes between 10 and 6km...
Perhaps caused by impatient use of TC (max 16 used) :hmm: - not verified yet.
He now reports from sometimes over 30km and other times at 22km - depending of sea (?)

Lookouts are great! Alerted and sharp!
Saved our butts a couple of times from some *very* annoying Swordfishs :|\\

Jan

Using
GWX 1.02, 8km, SH3Commander
From Rubini mod:
AI_Sensors.dat - is Jungman's AI_Sensors.dat
Sensors.dat - is Sensors_30km_GWX.dat
sensors.cfg - is Rubini default "false"

[Rubini]

Thanks mates for the feedback!

I only didn´t release it yet because I´m trying to make a last minute adjusts on Hydrophones issue.

I ran 2 complete patrols and the mod is working great.
The hydrophones are really hardcoded (until now) for some features. No matter what you change on Sensors.cfg, you can´t make it better (just worse) or with settings that have a lot of side effects. On the Sonars.dat (player uboat sensors geometry) the unique good change are about distances of hydrophones.
So probably we will have the better sonarman until now but not a perfect one. In the other hand, the visual issue is very, very good!

I will release it today or tomorrow at max!:up:

[Dantenoc]

I will release it today or tomorrow at max!:up:

:rock:

[Rubini]

Ok, finishing the readme and packing the mod...

Even the sonarman is now very, very more smart and less deaf now!

[Rubini]

Me again...:D

Somebody knows if at Periscope depth the hydrophones worked well on uboats at WWII?

It´s easily to adjust this on Sensors.dat. For example we can set a min heigh to the hydrophones work at 17m (an example). If this is realistic the game will be even more challenge.:hmm:

[Rubini]

Releasead!
8km only - link on the first post.

Please read the readme inside (a bit large but full of good info).

I will only make the 16km if we have good feedback from the 8km users.
Any feedback is welcome!

Rubini.

[Jan Kyster]

Somebody knows if at Periscope depth the hydrophones worked well on uboats at WWII?Well... :hmm:
As I'm using the GHG, I've wondered why I can't use the hydrophone all the time? As you know, it's an arced array of microphones located on each side of the hull around and above the hydroplanes. So they are in the water all the time...

Off to download the package! :rock:



U-33 will be reporting in later.

[Maraz]

I will only make the 16km if we have good feedback from the 8km users.


Thanks a lot for your work, I hope you will at last make the 16Km version too... :D

Maraz

[P_Funk]

Yes I would love a 16km one. I'd be more than willing to beta test too. I can't bear to return to 8km though so if it doesn't come to 16km I might never get to enjoy this breakthrough.

[Paajtor]

Yes I would love a 16km one. I'd be more than willing to beta test too. I can't bear to return to 8km though so if it doesn't come to 16km I might never get to enjoy this breakthrough.
Same here...I love this idea, but I'm quite fond of my 16k-game. My rig can handle it easily.:D

Keep up the good work, Rubini!:up:

[Reece]

Hi Rubini, between entertaining guests & testing SH4 I have been kind of off track, sorry about that chief!:cry::yep: I notice you have the mod out already, that's great, not sure when I will be back to SH3!;)
Cheers.

[Wilcke]

Hi Rubini,

Started a new career 1940 in a VIIC, so far so good, no problems noted and I really like the additional assistance on the plot. The circles are really nice, have had a few contacts with the hydrophone and the WO is working well.

Will try the periscope depth as you posted above. Also, am going to cut this patrol short and load the GWX 1.03 patch, then reload and do some missions, for instance go straight away into Happy Times mission, dive and silent run while doing the hydrophone "hunt".

So far so good, and 16km gets my vote plus beta testing. Nice work man!:up:

[von Zelda]

This may be a stupid question but I'll ask anyway.

Is this newly released visual hydrophone workaround compatible with the newly released 1.03 GWX update?

[von Zelda]

There was a question on the SH3 forum regarding radar detection of the snorkel.

I remember an early modification (pre-Grey Wolves) of radar height from .5 to 1-meter (maybe) to decrease radar dection.

In your work with the sensor files, etc., can you maybe shed some light on this radar detection question and a possible fix to reduce detection of the snorkel.

[Rubini]

There was a question on the SH3 forum regarding radar detection of the snorkel.

I remember an early modification (pre-Grey Wolves) of radar height from .5 to 1-meter (maybe) to decrease radar dection.

In your work with the sensor files, etc., can you maybe shed some light on this radar detection question and a possible fix to reduce detection of the snorkel.
I was awaiting a for this question...

Yes, Jungman was the first that discouver this issue and since then all big mods already have it incorporated, so it's on GWX and on this mod (both versions).

But...Jungamnn in truth made it for AI_visual and for generic AI_radar only not for individual radars...When i was working on this mod I notice that GWX also only have these fix (AI_Visual and on generic AI_radar) but not in all AI radars like the Airplanes ones (same as Jungman did). As nobody make any comment about this until now I left this as it is on GWX and Jugman settings...

If someone start to have a so much air attacks (with GWX) when sailing with snorkel we can adjust this easily, ok?:up: (now speaking by the GWX team)

And yes, my mod is patch 1.03 compatible.;)

[gabeeg]

Rubini,

Actually now that you mention this...I have wondered why it was that when I have the snorkel exposed I tend to get just as many...if not more air patrols coming at me than when surfaced....this might explain that. I believe another fix for this was at one time someone decreased the default amount of snorkel that was exposed above water when it was deployed...I might be wrong about that. I would like to test what happens with the individual radars tweaked...

[Rubini]

Rubini,

Actually now that you mention this...I have wondered why it was that when I have the snorkel exposed I tend to get just as many...if not more air patrols coming at me than when surfaced....this might explain that. I believe another fix for this was at one time someone decreased the default amount of snorkel that was exposed above water when it was deployed...I might be wrong about that. I would like to test what happens with the individual radars tweaked...

This is simple to do. Just open the AI_sensors.dat with TTweak and adjust all the active radars MinHeight from 0 to 1 (meter)! Mainly the ones used by aircraft (ASVMark - alltypes)!
Done!:up:

[gabeeg]

beautiful! thanks. (taking a look now)

[von Zelda]

I opened you sensors cfg file which has "radar sensor height factor=0" If I recall correctly, the stock game had height at .5 and jugman's mod made it 1. I'm not sure of the stock GWX.

I can not open the sensor dat files.

Is it possible that changing the radar sensor height factor to 1 in the sensor cfg file may eliminate the detection of the snorkel without changing any thing else in the dat files?

There doesn't appear to be any thing to change in the sim cfg file.

If necessary, can you tweak the dat files to make radar sensor height =1 and post an optional update. But this might not be necessary if the change to radar sensor height works well at 1. Can you test this therory?

I just noticed you had Jugman's A1 dat file as an option. What are the radar sensor height factors in this optional file? Maybe this optional file is all we need along with the one change in the sensor cfg file??

[gabeeg]

Rubini,

Ok...just for clarification, Jungmans SensorPak mod(s) altered sensors.dat by fixing the radar detector ranges as follows:

Metox: 4km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Metox: 10km range @ 15 sec sweep New
Borkum: 5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Borkum: 15km range @ 10 sec sweep New
Naxos: 7.5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Naxos: 20km range @ 10 sec sweep New
Tunis: 10km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Tunis: 25km range @ 5 sec sweep New

He did do a snorkel fix (I was not sure of this but looked back and found it!) that was moded in the AI_Sensors.dat where the snorkel will now be under the AI radars MinHeight value (1?)

Also, he did some changes to the DD/DDE "Super Sonar Detection" problem by changing AI_Sonar.dat:

The minimum Sonar Range was changed from default zero to 150 meters.
The maximum Sonar Bearing angle was reduced from -+ 90 degrees bow, to 60 degrees.

And depth charge blast radius was changed from 15 to 20 meters.

My question to you is what of the above is included in your mod and what if any of the above is not modded like Jungmans sensor pak but uses the stock values?

All of this is in Jungmans "SensorPak" mod (also apart of "SH3 Bugfixer & Small Enhancements" mod by Syxx_Killer) I am not sure if you can find these separately anymore...they have all been absorbed into all of the "Major Mods" in some form or another. I though, do not use any of the Major mods and just use a heavily modded stock install (The reason for this is that I run SHIII on my laptop and have to stay away from most of the eye-candy).

[Rubini]

I opened you sensors cfg file which has "radar sensor height factor=0" If I recall correctly, the stock game had height at .5 and jugman's mod made it 1. I'm not sure of the stock GWX.

I can not open the sensor dat files.

Is it possible that changing the radar sensor height factor to 1 in the sensor cfg file may eliminate the detection of the snorkel without changing any thing else in the dat files?

There doesn't appear to be any thing to change in the sim cfg file.

If necessary, can you tweak the dat files to make radar sensor height =1 and post an optional update. But this might not be necessary if the change to radar sensor height works well at 1. Can you test this therory?

I just noticed you had Jugman's A1 dat file as an option. What are the radar sensor height factors in this optional file? Maybe this optional file is all we need along with the one change in the sensor cfg file??

You are messing with the wrong file.
Sensors.cfg and Sensors.dat are player uboat related.
Sim.cfg and AI_sensors.dat are AI behaviour/geometry related. The changes for Snorkel fix are or need to be made on AI_sensors.dat.

[Rubini]

Rubini,

Ok...just for clarification, Jungmans SensorPak mod(s) altered sensors.dat by fixing the radar detector ranges as follows:

Metox: 4km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Metox: 10km range @ 15 sec sweep New
Borkum: 5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Borkum: 15km range @ 10 sec sweep New
Naxos: 7.5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Naxos: 20km range @ 10 sec sweep New
Tunis: 10km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Tunis: 25km range @ 5 sec sweep New

He did do a snorkel fix (I was not sure of this but looked back and found it!) that was moded in the AI_Sensors.dat where the snorkel will now be under the AI radars MinHeight value (1?)

Also, he did some changes to the DD/DDE "Super Sonar Detection" problem by changing AI_Sonar.dat:

The minimum Sonar Range was changed from default zero to 150 meters.
The maximum Sonar Bearing angle was reduced from -+ 90 degrees bow, to 60 degrees.

And depth charge blast radius was changed from 15 to 20 meters.

My question to you is what of the above is included in your mod and what if any of the above is not modded like Jungmans sensor pak but uses the stock values?

All of this is in Jungmans "SensorPak" mod (also apart of "SH3 Bugfixer & Small Enhancements" mod by Syxx_Killer) I am not sure if you can find these separately anymore...they have all been absorbed into all of the "Major Mods" in some form or another. I though, do not use any of the Major mods and just use a heavily modded stock install (The reason for this is that I run SHIII on my laptop and have to stay away from most of the eye-candy).

I already put all the Jungman changes on the Ai_sensor.dat - optional folder for GWX version, default on stock version: RWR range, Snorkel fix, uber sonars, etc (the depth charges and almost all this are already tweaked by GWX anyway). I also put there some tweaks by me and others that are accumulated after Jungaman first discouver. So these files are more "actual" than the Jungman first fix from almost two years ago. All the changes are on the readme...
The unique (perhaps) necessary adjust will be make the MinHeight for all AI active radar=1 that aren´t on original Jungman release neither on GWX.

But, like I said, I suggest that we play the game first. Others small settings also can interfere with this and I guess that the final result is already correct. If needed its so easy to adjust later.;)

[Rubini]

Attention 16km users. I need a help to start the work on it.

The hydrophone fix will be the same that are in the 8km version. So, it´s already done.
For the visual settings I need these below tables complete (short time to make a lot of tests again). So with somebody help me we can also adjust the 16km mod.

1. What is max player eyes distance on 16km mod (in meters)?
No fog, daytime: ...............................at night:
Light fog, day time: ...........................at night:
Medium fog, day time: ........................at night:
Heavy fog, day time: .........................at night:



2. How is the maximum actual distance for the crew?

Day time(distance in meters when the crew start to see the ships in 90% of the time). Also annotate if the Ai attack your uboat before the crew see the enemy.
......................GWX(crew).....Stock(crew)... ....max player eyes
No fog
Light Fog
Med. Fog
Heavy Fog


Night time:
...................GWX(crew).......Stock(crew).... .........max player eyes
No fog
Light Fog
Med. Fog
Heavy Fog

Thanks for any help! If I have these infos I can start to adjust the 16km mod!;)

[Reece]

Hi Rubini & thanks, so far the 8k GWX version is very good, my WO on a clear day spots targets at 9000mts & after movnig away then diving I'm getting reports from hydraphone operator from atleast 20k, this is an auto response, no selecting on my part!:up: haven't tried further yet as I do not have map updates on so I have to calculate manually, will keep you informed as game progresses.:yep:

[von Zelda]

Thanks, Rubini.

D/L new 1.03 and installed your great mod. Began new career with Type II out of Kiel.

Using medium to high TC, crew spoted target at 5000 meters during the night in light fog and a target at 8900 meters during the day in light fog. Well done!

Have not tried hydrophone yet.

[Rubini]

Thanks for the feedback mates!

Yesterday at night I run one more (entire) full of encounters patrol. The mod is working great. IT's now a "serious" game.
My now "alert crew" makes the Kriegsmarine proud! They are always alert and report the visual contacts always in time and at the longer distance possible without eagle eyes.

The hydrophone is awesome now, the sonarman always detect at the longer distance possible...and I'm not using the 30km version!

You don't need to worry anymore about your crew job!

I forgot so say the correct order to install it:
GWX original
Patch 1.03
Visual_Hydrophone workaround.

Always roll back SH3Cmdr prior to install this mod.
Sh3Cmdr uses, beyond others files, the AI_sensors.dat as default. If you not roll back first then the mod will not work as intend.

I will now take a deep look at the Airplanes visual detection issue. I yet feel that its not so good.

[q65]

Well done
I installed the mod last evening and my crew spotted a Passenger/cargo at about 5000m at night under good conditions. I was able to get myself in a good position without being spotted. 11K in the books for only one ship.That is the first time I can recall I have sunk a ship in 39 over 3K and I seem to spend alot of my time in 39 early 40's. It is the first time that I saw them and they didnt see me and start to zig zag and call in the heavier guns. When I went up to the bridge I was able to see the ship through the binoculars. I believe that if I did not install this mod my crew would have missed and we would have been 2 ships that sailed past in the night. To me this seems more realistic. I wasnt on top of the ship when it was spotted and I had time to do my thing.

Looking forward to seeing what the sonar operator might do. In my last patrol I was evading a destroyer. I thought I had lost him. I was lazy and didnt check the hydrophone myself and I asked my operator for any contact. Nothing there so I thought I was safe and preceded up to Periscope depth only to hear at the last moment the high pitch whine of the screws. Needless to say I was rammed and sent to the bottom.

[Reece]

Yeh this is really kicking some ass!:up: Like a whole new game ... things work now!!:D

[Rubini]

Good news!!:sunny:

I cracked the blind crew to spotting aircraft!
Just an example (stock game) in a clear unfogged day, at mid day, an Hurricane approching at your right (90 degress) only will be dected by the crew between 800-1300m average. I achieve it far from 8.3km away (i know that this is so much...)!!!

Now is just a matter of fining tunning. I will probably drop to 3.5km away.
I also noticed that others (GWX and NYGM) already have made something similar but never in a complete package to have a really "Alert crew fix" for ships, airplanes and Hydrophones, as it should be since the SH3 release.

This fix also make a better job on small ships like a Fish boat for example that yet was not well detected by the crew (visual) even with my anterior fix.

Expect a new complete version of the mod in 2 days!

PS: Somebody knows (in RL, WWII era, visual only) what could be a good distance to detect a Hurricane in the above conditions?

[poor sailor]

That's great news Rubini, looking forward to this!:up:

[Paajtor]

PS: Somebody knows (in RL, WWII era, visual only) what could be a good distance to detect a Hurricane in the above conditions? I live right next to an airport (Maastricht-Aachen-Airport...the strip is approx. 1km away from my house lol), and on a clear mid-day, I can see small aircrafts for up to 4km away.
But under certain conditions (depends on wind-direction and air-humidity), I can hear them earlier!
I think the engine-sound would be heard even earlier out at sea, if weather and seas are calm...certainly a high-power Merlin-engine, with hardly any exhaust-damping.
A trained watch-crew would hear the low rumble from miles away, I think.

Is there a way, to put the watch on high-alert, when they "hear" an engine, and start scanning in a rough direction that they think they hear the sound coming from?

[Rubini]

Thanks Paajtor!
Then just imagine what you could see with a good binoculars and also when 4 or 5 ppl are scanning the sky together!
I will probably adjust the small aircrafts (hurricanes) to 5km and the big ones to 7km. What do you think?

This distance also could mimic the sound detection what isn't moddable on the game...:hmm:

Like I said I can make it detectable more than 8km away if needed. We just need good RL references like you give us.



PS: Somebody knows (in RL, WWII era, visual only) what could be a good distance to detect a Hurricane in the above conditions? I live right next to an airport (Maastricht-Aachen-Airport...the strip is approx. 1km away from my house lol), and on a clear mid-day, I can see small aircrafts for up to 4km away.
But under certain conditions (depends on wind-direction and air-humidity), I can hear them earlier!
I think the engine-sound would be heard even earlier out at sea, if weather and seas are calm...certainly a high-power Merlin-engine, with hardly any exhaust-damping.
A trained watch-crew would hear the low rumble from miles away, I think.

Is there a way, to put the watch on high-alert, when they "hear" an engine, and start scanning in a rough direction that they think they hear the sound coming from?

[Paajtor]

Ok, so this was during optimal conditions.

Rubini, do you know, if the SH3 wind-directions can be used, to determine if a plane is heard (and seen after a little while) early or late?
Suppose there's a stiff breeze (5-6bft, don't know the kmh-equivalents right now), blowing in your face from over the bow...can the game's wind-speed and -direction be used, to make it so that the watch-crew has a much earlier contact from a target nearing up ahead?

5km for small, and 8km for big planes sounds good, btw...maybe need more opinions?

[Jan Kyster]

We can handle those Swordfish, we've been playing with the last couple of days :roll: They are pretty close, but we can just handle them...

But the Hurricanes... :huh:

Damn, they are fast!


U-33 volunteers for testing!

\edit:
Second thought: a fighter ~600km/t reach us in 30 secs if only first spotted at 5km... gulp :o

[Reece]

I always had the problem of running high TC, then TC drops to 1x, an explosion, direct hit on boat, then the WO says "Aircraft", thats when I kick him fair in the kyber!:lol:
Hope this fixes that, prior to your mod I have been using Der teddy bars (NYGM 2.2) sensors.dat & sensors.cfg to improve visual aircraft detection, and seemed to work:yep:
Thanks Rubini.:up:

[nikbear]

How do I download this mod,rapidshare isn't playing ball and keeps telling me my download session is invalid:nope: Ive waited 85 mins twice now and each time its the same:cry:

[Reece]

I don't think Rubini will mind, try here:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=29084 (http://www6.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=29084)
Cheers.

[Rubini]

It´s done!:sunny:

Sh3 have a separated setting for the "size" of the contact on sensors.dat for each sensor called "surface". On visual sensor (sensors.dat) it is equal 150 for stock and in GWX it is equal 100 (I can´t open NYGM Sensors.dat).
This setting control mainly how the small contacts will be detected. Bigger number means less detectable small units. Lesser number, then the small units are more detectable. Obviously the settings on the Sensor.cfg also will have important influence on the final result.

Then I will release two versions: one with surface=90. Hurricane will be detected (average) on a clear day, no fog, at 2500meters (stock and GWX at 1500m), the big plane, B24 at 6800 meters( stock/GWX at 5900) . The other with surface=60. Hurris at 3500 and B24 at 8000 meters. At night these distances are a half and with fog is even lesser.

Hummm...B24 spotted 8000m away? Remember that is a clear unfogged day using binocular, and 5 ppl out there scanning the horizon and sky... I don´t know, i guess that is possible in RL. Anyway I will use it (surface=60) for the main reason below:

We have a good side efect here: These settings also mess with the small vessels. A simple fishboat using stock/GWX settings are detected very late at 3500m (clear calm day). The player can see it´s smoke 7500m away! Now just imagine an English Armed Trawler or an Elco boat...they will start to shoot at you before your blind crew see them (they are clearly visible but your crew don´t see them!). Use the surface=60 and your crew will now detect also these small ships a bit early (one minute or two) before they can see you! (Of course these are average distances, not exactly the same all the time).

I spent all the time in tests trying to not put values that could fix one thing but unbalance other. This is my compromise, this is why we have choices.

I will release it with the two settings above. Use what you feel that is more your play stile.;)

@ Can someone also provide another link? Seems some guys are having problems in download from RS.
Hehe...thanks Reece!:up:

[Reece]

Great news Rubini, looking forward to the new release.:up:

You should become a member of file front, you can then have your own download site free, and no adds or spyware etc, I can certainly reccomend it, also this site is better than rapidshare IMO::up:
http://www6.rapidupload.com/
Cheers.

[poor sailor]

Here is another link http://files.filefront.com/Visual_Hydrophone_workaro1b7z/;7053739;/fileinfo.html

[LGN1]

Hi Rubini,

your results sound very good :up:. Unfortunately at the moment my personal
version is a heavily modded NYGM installation. Thus, I cannot test the
mod. However, I will closely follow the development. At the moment I
have two questions for which you may have an answer.

In the thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106663&page=3 it
seems that changing the waves amplitude and attenuation in Sim.cfg has
an influence on a graphical glitch. Someone in this thread has asked
if changing these values has any side effects. I guess it has, but I
am not sure. Can you comment on this?

If I ask my sonar man to follow the nearest warship he does not follow
the nearest warship, but the next warship he can hear. For example,
one warship is at bearing 50 degrees, range 1000m and one bearing 270
degrees, range 500m. If the sonar man has bearing 0 degree (more
general 270 < his bearing < 50) at the moment I order him to follow
the nearest warship he follows the contact at 50 degrees. If I wait
until his bearing is greater than 50 degrees he follows the warship at
270 degrees. Have you or anyone else encountered similar problems? It
is really strange. It seems to me that the order is not follow the
'nearest' but follow the 'next' contact.

Any comments on these two subjects are highly welcomed.

Cheers, LGN1

[cyclop_si]

If I ask my sonar man to follow the nearest warship he does not follow
the nearest warship, but the next warship he can hear. For example,
one warship is at bearing 50 degrees, range 1000m and one bearing 270
degrees, range 500m. If the sonar man has bearing 0 degree (more
general 270 < his bearing < 50) at the moment I order him to follow
the nearest warship he follows the contact at 50 degrees. If I wait
until his bearing is greater than 50 degrees he follows the warship at
270 degrees. Have you or anyone else encountered similar problems? It
is really strange. It seems to me that the order is not follow the
'nearest' but follow the 'next' contact.

Hi,
Same behaviour in my case as well, using GWX 1.02 without other additional modes.
Bye

[Woof1701]

Hi Rubini

First of all thanks for this mod!!!
When I first read about it here, my immediate idea was to combine it with Ducimus' additional AI visual nodes. I had always been a little annoyed with my crew's performance in fog and on the hydrophone, as well as the fact that the AI had the same visuals as my own boat. Ducimus fixed the second problem with his additional AI nodes, while you now finally fixed the hydrophones and the visuals of my crew. Considering that uboats and surface ships each have different properties that make them see or be seen more or less easily, with combining your and Ducimus' mod we'd have the best of both worlds.

Now I'm trying to put the two together but have no idea though how to do it. Since both you and Ducimus altered the sim.cfg and AI_sensors.dat we'd most certainly have a mixup here and just using your player sensors.cfg and sensor.dat with Ducimus mod might produce quite unsatisfactory effects.

Could you please describe what changes in the AI files do exactly? Since I thought this mod was about player problems with hydrophone and visuals, I'm not sure how AI behaviour was changed?

Thanks a lot.
Best regards


BTW: Link to Ducimus thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956

[von Zelda]

It´s done!:sunny:

Great work there! When will this be released?

Thanks.

[nikbear]

Thanks for the new links everyone,and to rubini for the mod:up: :rock: ;) :D You Sir are a gentelman and a scholar!:|\\

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

your results sound very good :up:. Unfortunately at the moment my personal
version is a heavily modded NYGM installation. Thus, I cannot test the
mod. However, I will closely follow the development. At the moment I
have two questions for which you may have an answer.

In the thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106663&page=3 it
seems that changing the waves amplitude and attenuation in Sim.cfg has
an influence on a graphical glitch. Someone in this thread has asked
if changing these values has any side effects. I guess it has, but I
am not sure. Can you comment on this?

If I ask my sonar man to follow the nearest warship he does not follow
the nearest warship, but the next warship he can hear. For example,
one warship is at bearing 50 degrees, range 1000m and one bearing 270
degrees, range 500m. If the sonar man has bearing 0 degree (more
general 270 < his bearing < 50) at the moment I order him to follow
the nearest warship he follows the contact at 50 degrees. If I wait
until his bearing is greater than 50 degrees he follows the warship at
270 degrees. Have you or anyone else encountered similar problems? It
is really strange. It seems to me that the order is not follow the
'nearest' but follow the 'next' contact.

Any comments on these two subjects are highly welcomed.

Cheers, LGN1

LGN1,
I was so busy adjusting the "Stay Alert - crew fix" mod (The name idea is from Jan Kyster - thanks) that I did not notice that thread.

Well, GWX for sure also plays with these two settings (ampl/atten), this makes part of the LRG mod. So, if you mess with them and left the others LRG settings intact you will have some (bad) impact on gameplay. The Amplitude and atten. on GWX helps the player to hide between into waves depression what in a LRG scenario is very important.

For guys that are using the "Stay Alert crew fix" mod this isn't a problem because I altered the LRG mod FOV anyway and the amp/att values are already lesser on sim.cfg.;)

But if those adjusts really fix this texture problem then its the way to go but a effort to test the changes on Ai behaviour for gameplay balance is necessary.

Your second question...well I never noticed it. But seems that cyclop also have it, so probable it's another stock bug...perhaps someone could fix it? The first tip is to search for this on the commands_*.cfg files. Perhaps could be only a matter of change commands (SH3 have a lot of unused commands...)?:hmm:

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini

First of all thanks for this mod!!!
When I first read about it here, my immediate idea was to combine it with Ducimus' additional AI visual nodes. I had always been a little annoyed with my crew's performance in fog and on the hydrophone, as well as the fact that the AI had the same visuals as my own boat. Ducimus fixed the second problem with his additional AI nodes, while you now finally fixed the hydrophones and the visuals of my crew. Considering that uboats and surface ships each have different properties that make them see or be seen more or less easily, with combining your and Ducimus' mod we'd have the best of both worlds.

Now I'm trying to put the two together but have no idea though how to do it. Since both you and Ducimus altered the sim.cfg and AI_sensors.dat we'd most certainly have a mixup here and just using your player sensors.cfg and sensor.dat with Ducimus mod might produce quite unsatisfactory effects.

Could you please describe what changes in the AI files do exactly? Since I thought this mod was about player problems with hydrophone and visuals, I'm not sure how AI behaviour was changed?

Thanks a lot.
Best regards


BTW: Link to Ducimus thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956

Woof 1701,

For now Ducimus' mod are incompatible with the "Stay Alert - crew fix" mod. In the end, after we have finish any fine adjust (if needed) i will make them compatible.
The main problem is that Ducimus's mod is for 16km and mine for 8km. Then some adjusts on his Ai_sensors.dat is necessary. If I have time I will release together with the new update (with Airplane fix), probably next friday.;)

Edited: A last comment. Ducimus/NYGM new Ai visual sensors for different units makes a good work on 16km where obviously we have major distance to play with. For 8km I can't see so much advantage as the max visaul range is limited to 9300m anyway. I dunno if this deserve the effort. Perhaps this could wait to the moment that we fix also the 16km version (if I will do it...). I continue to wait help from 16km users...

[Jimbuna]

I continue to wait help from 16km users...
What help do you require mate ? :D

[Rubini]

I continue to wait help from 16km users...
What help do you require mate ? :D

See post 79 on page 4 of this thread!;)
Thanks jimbuma!

[Woof1701]

@Rubini
Thanks mate. That's excatly what I wanted to hear. Currently I'm using Ducimus' mod with NYGM values together with GWX 1.03 and I'm pretty satisfied with the results. It's a very good mod, and if you really can patch them together for a 16 km version, it'd be a real definite improvement. After that's done I can hardly find any more faults with SH3 :up:

Waiting for a while doesn't matter, since currently I have no time to play anyway. Sorry that I cannot help you developing the 16 km version of the "Stay alert Mod" :oops: :cry:

[Paajtor]

Rubini, is this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109446) for both versions, or for 16k only?

[Rubini]

Rubini, is this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109446) for both versions, or for 16k only?

Well, its for the Stay Alert crew fix mod that for now is only for 8km.
However, notice that some fix from this 8km version will go directly (without any necessary adjust) to the 16km future work - the hydrophone fix is an example. I guess that also the Airplanes fix. So that research will be used for both version in the end.;)

[nvdrifter]

Hi Rubini old pal. I haven't gone anywhere. I'm ready to shelve that piece of crap SH4 and 'come back home' to SH3. I have been watching this thread closely. Excellent work. :up:

[Wilcke]

Rubini,

Downloaded the file again yesterday. Restarted another career, visual is working very well.

The weather turned very nasty, hydrophone still working well, SO was reporting merchant ship contact and we were on track towards him....lots of racket in the ocean from the gale force winds and wave action. SO worked very well....we eventually lost the contact Long Range and moving away.

This is just a great thing and brings the boat alive. I really like the assitance yet you can jump in and take over. I do not really like to be in a sub with a bunch inactive crewmembers.

Well done. Do I need to redownload the mod again? Or just keep testing my current setup. We are on day three. Even with TC on 128 and 256, I was getting plenty of callouts which then drops TC to 1.

Let me know.

Wilcke

[gabeeg]

Rubini,

I just wanted to report that after a patrol and a half I have had nothing but good results from this mod with my heavily modded 8km stock version of SHIII. This one is a keeper! Thanks for your hard work...this is one of those handful of truly game changing (for the better) mods!

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini old pal. I haven't gone anywhere. I'm ready to shelve that piece of crap SH4 and 'come back home' to SH3. I have been watching this thread closely. Excellent work. :up:

Hi buddy!
And the best is that it's Long Repair Time mod absolutely compatible!
I always plays with it!

Nice to see you again with us mate!:up:

[Rubini]

Wilcke,
gabeeg,

Many thanks for your feedback. This makes proud. :know:
I and Nvdrifter will not stop to mod until we have really a challenge gamepaly! lol

Anyway just wait for the upcoming crew visual fix for Airplane detection! Now your crew is really a Kriegsmarine one! :arrgh!:

( will be added to the actual mod. Yes, will be need to redownload it)

[Jan Kyster]

Anyway just wait for the upcoming crew visual fix for Airplane detection! Now your crew is really a Kriegsmarine one! :arrgh!:

June 20, 1940
From U-33, location AF74.

fordeck and flak damaged stop need new eyes stop swordfishs everywhere stop position not good to wait stop

Oberleutnant z.S. Janus Küster

[Wilcke]

Roger, that....and excellent work Rubini and the same goes to NVdrifter...!

I cannot tell you how good SH3 is looking with GWX1.03 and the current technical mods.

Visually it is hard to believe it came out in 05, this thing has legs and will keep me entertained for hundreds of hours. The initial learning is steep but man it is sweet.

I set out on patrol in a Type IID dressed in Fubars camo skin....SH3 Weather bit cloudy and sprinkly to start. In a day and half I a now in a full blown gale....amazing to see that little boat pitching and heaving in the swell.

Looking forward to the updated mod....let us know and we will Beta some more.


OH, and SHIV is still in the box! I did look at the contents....put it back in the closet on the shelf!

Wilcke

[Rubini]

Hi mates,

First post updated with the link for the new version:
"Stay Alert - crew fix" mod for GWX and Stock game version 1.c
This is a 8km version only.
This version have the new fix for the visual airplanes detection issue.

Read the readme inside!
Good hunting
Any feedback is welcome.



Rubini.

[poor sailor]

Here is another link http://files.filefront.com/Stay_Alert__crew_fix_v1c7z/;7063930;/fileinfo.html

[Jimbuna]

I have tried out this fantastic mod on my v1.03 installation and am so impressed I am currently converted to playing 8km in-game :up:
I look forward to the 16km version :yep:
Much appreciated Rubini :arrgh!:

[Matyas]

Hi Rubini,

As everyone here seems to be highly satified with your mod, I have decided to switch back from 16km to 8km to be able to try it out (was a tough decision for me, though).

However, I have some questions before I start using it:

1. Does cloudiness have an influence on visual detection ranges (especially during night time)? In RL you can hardly see anything in the night when the sky is overcast...

2. Are the visual detection ranges for airplanes the same for the nighttime and for the daytime? It's hardly imaginable to spot a Hurricane during a cloudy (or overcast!) night from 4 km...

Thanks for your reply in advance.

Matyas

[Cheapskate]

It's hardly imaginable to spot a Hurricane during a cloudy (or overcast!) night from 4 km..
Matyas
You are certainly correct there! But detection of aircraft is only not only visual but also aural. You may not see it but you could probably hear it from that distance - maybe from even further away. Not sure about Hurricane's noise levels but if it was an Avenger you definitely would have heard it - have had RL experience of those noisy b*****s :yep:

Haven't actually got this mod running yet, so can't comment on the rest of your questions. No doubt someone will though.:)

[Woof1701]

Don't forget that the uboat Diesels are making a noise as well.

[Cheapskate]

Hi Woof

No, I wasn't completely overlooking the ambient noise side of things. But how much noise did the diesels actually make on a WWII sub ? particularly if they were just on tickover for a battery recharge?

Seriously, there are so many imponderables here. Personally, I think Rubini was right to take an educated stab at a rough approximation and see how things work out in practice.

If we don't find the results to our liking, we can always change them with TT's minitweaker :D

[von Zelda]

Thanks Rubini for all your hard work in putting this wonderful mod together for us all.

Aside from Grey Wolves and GWX super mods, your Stay Alert Crew Mod is the greatest improvement to game play that I've seen so far. Well done!

[jimmie]

Wow, this sounds promising! Thanks for another effort making the game better. I also wish for NYGM compatible 16km version :up:

[Woof1701]

Hi Woof

No, I wasn't completely overlooking the ambient noise side of things. But how much noise did the diesels actually make on a WWII sub ? particularly if they were just on tickover for a battery recharge?

That's one of those things noone of us will ever be able to find out :)


Seriously, there are so many imponderables here. Personally, I think Rubini was right to take an educated stab at a rough approximation and see how things work out in practice.

If we don't find the results to our liking, we can always change them with TT's minitweaker :D

Yes that's true. Basically apart from the technical data almost every aspect of such a simulation is based on guesswork. After all how are we to judge how many aircraft attacks through the Biskaya were normal, how like it was to be hit on a depth charge or hedge hog attack. How many uboats didn't sink because they were hit, but because the boat was sloppily welded or repaired and cracked at 150 meters. Or what it was effect it had on the crew to have several sick crew members aboard. What effect on morale continued boredom had. The list is endless :)

[Capt.Crackerjack]

:up: Thanks to Rubini for a truly great mod!:yep:

Also, thanks to Poor Sailor for the FileFront links!:up:

[bert8for3]

I continue to wait help from 16km users...
What help do you require mate ? :D

See post 79 on page 4 of this thread!;)
Thanks jimbuma!

I'm running 16k, and am presently in heavy fog and just picked up a convoy on hydrophones. I'll play around with it tonight and see what sort of visual distances I'm getting vs crew, and post back here.

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

As everyone here seems to be highly satified with your mod, I have decided to switch back from 16km to 8km to be able to try it out (was a tough decision for me, though).

However, I have some questions before I start using it:

1. Does cloudiness have an influence on visual detection ranges (especially during night time)? In RL you can hardly see anything in the night when the sky is overcast...

2. Are the visual detection ranges for airplanes the same for the nighttime and for the daytime? It's hardly imaginable to spot a Hurricane during a cloudy (or overcast!) night from 4 km...

Thanks for your reply in advance.

Matyas

Hi Matyas,

This is an always important question.
First of all yes, at night, mainly with fog, your visibility range was much less even in this mod.

But as i already said - and this is the main problem also with 16km mod - SH3 just diminish the visibility range in a percent of the main mid clear day one. So the high that this "perfect conditions" distance are, the major the distance that you will detect things also at night and/or fog - here is where that vampire night vision born - a stock bad implementation. The parameters that controls specifically the light and fog factor also will mess with the less lighted hours of the day even when you yet have good visibility what will bring again a blind crew for half the day if you carry so much on these factors.

Then we need a compromise for these settings. To have a more smart crew you need to make them detect things early and this can occur once in a while on the edges of the vampire night vision on some hours of the night or with fog. This is why I don't made it for 16km. 16km is already a tweak. Then a tweak over a tweak could have a not so good results.

The settings that I made can be easily tuned down or high. I just need feedbacks.
But I'm sure that the game is far better now than before. At least you are changing a very odd behaviour (to say the minimum) to a 90% right behaviour now.;)

Feedbacks please!:D

Rubini.

[cardician]

Sorry, I'm not clear on something. I've read through this whole thread and am very excited for a 16km version (not willing to give that up ;)). Anyway, what is vampire night vision? I just don't understand the reference. Vampires able to see really well at night? I mean vampire bats certainly can't see for squat...and I didn't see any explanation anywhere on what that means.

Anyway, thanks for creating what sounds like a very valuable mod. I can't wait for it to work with 16km so I can d/l it for GWX :D

[Reece]

Once again Rubini, Thanks Very Much! I had some sort of virus stuffed up files on my HDD so I ghosted & the ghost image got 1/4 through & errored, had to get an old build and fix, now have to set up SH3 as well as other applications before I can continue!:-? My VCR just died as well, always some damn thing! Should have stayed in bed!:cry::yep:

[Rubini]

Sorry, I'm not clear on something. I've read through this whole thread and am very excited for a 16km version (not willing to give that up ;)). Anyway, what is vampire night vision? I just don't understand the reference. Vampires able to see really well at night? I mean vampire bats certainly can't see for squat...and I didn't see any explanation anywhere on what that means.

Anyway, thanks for creating what sounds like a very valuable mod. I can't wait for it to work with 16km so I can d/l it for GWX :D

Yes, the Vampire night vision was a term that was born when the guys started to dig the 16km mod. After the first moment of excitement they noticed that SH3 had a bad implementation for night range view and to solve this was necessary to adjust the light factor on Sensors.cfg file but in a huge way what also started to bring some side effects: the main one was a blind crew at night with fog.
All this is written on that old thread and is clear how Jungman start to be disappointed when they found this vampire night vision and he noticed that a perfect adjust was impossible. The guys tried then to find a middle ground and this is what we have today on 16km mod.
I hope that with patience and a lot of tests perhaps could be possible to have the Stay Alert crew fix also for 16km.

In truth the Hydrophones fix is the same. Only the visual needs special adjusts to 16km mod.;)

[Matyas]

Hi Rubini,

Thanks for your reply. On my current patrol I'm using your mod. I have just sunk my first merchant (an ore carrier). My WO spotted it at 5300 meters. Winds 6 knots NE, sky partly cloudy, light fog, daytime (around 2 pm). When the WO announced a ship was spotted, first I couldn't find it with the binoculars, but after a while (about half minute or so) it slowly slipped out of the fog and I started to see its contours and its smoke column. :up: (I don't bore you with further details: at the end the merchant went to the bottom of the ocean after my perfectly aimed two-torpedo salvo shot. :arrgh!:)

So my WO is a bit "eagle-eyed" but his performance is pretty close to mine. He is better than me maybe because I had no kriegsmarine training like he had. :D

So this far I'm happy with your mod. Thanks for it! :up:

More feedbacks coming soon.

Matyas

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

Thanks for your reply. On my current patrol I'm using your mod. I have just sunk my first merchant (an ore carrier). My WO spotted it at 5300 meters. Winds 6 knots NE, sky partly cloudy, light fog, daytime (around 2 pm). When the WO announced a ship was spotted, first I couldn't find it with the binoculars, but after a while (about half minute or so) it slowly slipped out of the fog and I started to see its contours and its smoke column. :up: (I don't bore you with further details: at the end the merchant went to the bottom of the ocean after my perfectly aimed two-torpedo salvo shot. :arrgh!:)

So my WO is a bit "eagle-eyed" but his performance is pretty close to mine. He is better than me maybe because I had no kriegsmarine training like he had. :D

So this far I'm happy with your mod. Thanks for it! :up:

More feedbacks coming soon.

Matyas

Thanks!
But don´t forget that the range that the WO/Sonarman will detect things will always vary a bit (SH3 engine). So sometimes they will see a bit far, sometimes bit late, but always more like you can do it...and the best is that pratically ships no more will see you first - (visual related only). This is exactly the soul of this mod!

[Reece]

Hi Rubini, I have a problem now with Sonar, using "GWX - Stay Alert _crew fix_v1c" I was at Periscope depth & selected Sonar to give constant reports, this was ok, then I surfaced, but he kept on giving reports "SO: Reports ....", this keeps going until ship is sunk!:cry:

[Murdock]

Hello
I think this is a stock SHIII Bug i have N.Y.G.M and G.W.X and a heavy Moded version of the game and if my memory serves i have seen this all throughout me having the game if i forget to to turn the sonar guys report to sweep before i surface he carrys on giving me the report.

[cardician]

Yeah, that's definitely a stock SH3 thing. I have that happen all the time. Can be very annoying.

[bert8for3]

Here are a couple of observations running 16k.

1. Day/cloud abt 6/10. Vis abt 75% relative to perfect. Some fog towards horizon, so I'd say low fog. Small merchant picked up by me at abt 8000 m., spotted by crew at 7700 m.

2. Day. Same conditions. Large cargo seen by me at abt 8500-9000 m., spotted by crew at 8100 m. Moving away from target, crew lost sight at 9500-10,000 m.

I'll do some more on the weekend.

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini, I have a problem now with Sonar, using "GWX - Stay Alert _crew fix_v1c" I was at Periscope depth & selected Sonar to give constant reports, this was ok, then I surfaced, but he kept on giving reports "SO: Reports ....", this keeps going until ship is sunk!:cry:

Yes, this is a stock bug. Nothing we can do until now.:hmm:

[Rubini]

Here are a couple of observations running 16k.

1. Day/cloud abt 6/10. Vis abt 75% relative to perfect. Some fog towards horizon, so I'd say low fog. Small merchant picked up by me at abt 8000 m., spotted by crew at 7700 m.

2. Day. Same conditions. Large cargo seen by me at abt 8500-9000 m., spotted by crew at 8100 m. Moving away from target, crew lost sight at 9500-10,000 m.

I'll do some more on the weekend.

Thanks for the info mate. Just one question: Is this using Stay Alert fix over 16km or you are reporting the results from a clean 16km installation?

Another requestion: please also report yours distances at night and what tipe of fog. If you see a airplane also report the distance, ok?

[bert8for3]

Here are a couple of observations running 16k.

1. Day/cloud abt 6/10. Vis abt 75% relative to perfect. Some fog towards horizon, so I'd say low fog. Small merchant picked up by me at abt 8000 m., spotted by crew at 7700 m.

2. Day. Same conditions. Large cargo seen by me at abt 8500-9000 m., spotted by crew at 8100 m. Moving away from target, crew lost sight at 9500-10,000 m.

I'll do some more on the weekend.

Thanks for the info mate. Just one question: Is this using Stay Alert fix over 16km or you are reporting the results from a clean 16km installation?

Another requestion: please also report yours distances at night and what tipe of fog. If you see a airplane also report the distance, ok?

From a clean 16k install of GWX102. ... didn't think/know there was a fix yet for the 16k, thought you still needed some input of 16k obs ... so let me know if this is still useful for you.

[Rubini]

Here are a couple of observations running 16k.

1. Day/cloud abt 6/10. Vis abt 75% relative to perfect. Some fog towards horizon, so I'd say low fog. Small merchant picked up by me at abt 8000 m., spotted by crew at 7700 m.

2. Day. Same conditions. Large cargo seen by me at abt 8500-9000 m., spotted by crew at 8100 m. Moving away from target, crew lost sight at 9500-10,000 m.

I'll do some more on the weekend.

Thanks for the info mate. Just one question: Is this using Stay Alert fix over 16km or you are reporting the results from a clean 16km installation?

Another requestion: please also report yours distances at night and what tipe of fog. If you see a airplane also report the distance, ok?

From a clean 16k install of GWX102. ... didn't think/know there was a fix yet for the 16k, thought you still needed some input of 16k obs ... so let me know if this is still useful for you.

Yes, thanks, totally useful and this is the unique possibility that I have to work on 16km (i don't use it)...if someone help me with the spotted distance , like you are doing. Continue posting!

[bert8for3]

... Yes, thanks, totally useful and this is the unique possibility that I have to work on 16km (i don't use it)...if someone help me with the spotted distance , like you are doing. Continue posting!

ok, tks/good, I should be able to do some more during the weekend.

[Kpt. Kozloff]

Hi Rubini,
I've installed your mod and i'm testing it on another patrol at the moment (1941).
So far it works nicely and up to the description.
The only thing i've noticed is those pesky Elco boats can still suprise you with their typical charm even in good weather. Which is fine with me 'cause that's their role i guess. It's not about being immune right? Within identical weather conditions my WO spotted a Commerce Raider at just below 8000m but for an Elco it was close to 1000m (ca. 2300hrs, wind 6, no precipitations, no clouds, calm). I got attacked twice that way. They're scary when they storm at you with guns blazing.
Overall, it appears to be a MUST HAVE mod (at least for 8km atmo.)! I'm curious how it's going to work further on in my career when air cover gets thicker and radars come into use.
Thanks for your hard work.
Thumbs up!
:up: :up:

[Jimbuna]

Yes, thanks, totally useful and this is the unique possibility that I have to work on 16km (i don't use it)...if someone help me with the spotted distance , like you are doing. Continue posting!

I think it's only fair to let you know the reason why your not receiving any info from me :yep:
I'm playing your 8km now....you've totally converted me from the 16km :up: :arrgh!:

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,
I've installed your mod and i'm testing it on another patrol at the moment (1941).
So far it works nicely and up to the description.
The only thing i've noticed is those pesky Elco boats can still suprise you with their typical charm even in good weather. Which is fine with me 'cause that's their role i guess. It's not about being immune right? Within identical weather conditions my WO spotted a Commerce Raider at just below 8000m but for an Elco it was close to 1000m (ca. 2300hrs, wind 6, no precipitations, no clouds, calm). I got attacked twice that way. They're scary when they storm at you with guns blazing.
Overall, it appears to be a MUST HAVE mod (at least for 8km atmo.)! I'm curious how it's going to work further on in my career when air cover gets thicker and radars come into use.
Thanks for your hard work.
Thumbs up!
:up: :up:

Thanks by the report mate!
Yes, the small ships (and small airplanes too) are very difficult to see at night. Especially a Elco because they don't make so much noise (when you are surfaced) and don't have enough smoke. I guess that with a small and without smoke ship the situation is really that: you are the big fish!

I can adjust this on my settings but we will start to have some side effects. Anyway I think that the above exposed situation is very reasonable. What do you think?

OT: I, another day, noticed a GWX/SH3 little flaw: a small sail boat was detected by my SO (hydrophone) like all others loud ships: 20km! But this is true also without my mod. It's a Sh3 limitation. (the sail boats have a engine attached to them, so the SO will detect them).

[Rubini]

Yes, thanks, totally useful and this is the unique possibility that I have to work on 16km (i don't use it)...if someone help me with the spotted distance , like you are doing. Continue posting!

I think it's only fair to let you know the reason why your not receiving any info from me :yep:
I'm playing your 8km now....you've totally converted me from the 16km :up: :arrgh!:

LOL!
That is good! At least for me that also prefer the 8km for all the above exposed (on this thread and in the 16km original thread)...
And how it's going? Any problem with the mod?:hmm:

[Jimbuna]

And how it's going? Any problem with the mod?

Non whatsoever...it's nice to see the watch crew identify at the correct point in time :yep:
This is very much appreciated....but I can't help wonder if I'll eventually change back when the 16km version is perfected :D :damn:

[Kpt. Kozloff]

I can adjust this on my settings but we will start to have some side effects. Anyway I think that the above exposed situation is very reasonable. What do you think?



No adjustments needed here. I think that the surprise/ambush factor is right in this instance. On the other hand u-boat has similar advantage against a merchant.
When it comes to spotting aircraft, it's pretty much analogic.
So far, very happy with both.
:up:

[Gedscho]

tried the mod today, and i collided with something while on 1024 TC. second collision sunk me. ofcourse i couldnt do anything to prevent it.

strange thing is, i really dont know what happened. was running surfaced and course was fine too.

if i understand this mod correctly, it only adjusts some variables for sensor behaviour...so i would say it shouldnt be the mods fault, but it sure was strange.... :hmm:

[Laffertytig]

i have to say i much prefer using 16km visibility. im just about to start a gmx patrol so how far of from a 16km version of this mod are we and when its released can it be added mid patrol?

[Rubini]

tried the mod today, and i collided with something while on 1024 TC. second collision sunk me. ofcourse i couldnt do anything to prevent it.

strange thing is, i really dont know what happened. was running surfaced and course was fine too.

if i understand this mod correctly, it only adjusts some variables for sensor behaviour...so i would say it shouldnt be the mods fault, but it sure was strange.... :hmm:

Well, the mod isn't absolute, SH3 always put some random error on the results, what I think is good.
But, are you sure that you installed it correctly?
Probably you collided with a mine or a subnet. Do you saw on what you collided?:hmm:

[Rubini]

i have to say i much prefer using 16km visibility. im just about to start a gmx patrol so how far of from a 16km version of this mod are we and when its released can it be added mid patrol?

Yes, it can be enabled middle patrol...but I don't have a prevision to 16km yet. And I don't know if I will release one anyway.
Thanks for the interest!;)

[Laffertytig]

i aint a modder but wouldnt it just be a case of doubling whatever values u have with 8km for 16km?

[Kar]

Can you make only hidrophone mod for 16km gwx ?

[Rubini]

Can you make only hidrophone mod for 16km gwx ?

The hydrophone and airplane section of the mod will be the same that are in the 8km version (99% sure).

In 16 km mod sometimes your game only stop from a TC with airplanes over you?:hmm:

[Henri II]

Can you make only hidrophone mod for 16km gwx ?
The hydrophone and airplane section of the mod will be the same that are in the 8km version (99% sure).

In 16 km mod sometimes your game only stop from a TC with airplanes over you?:hmm:

Is that an actual question? I usually don't go above 128x in AC patroled areas, and so far I never had an AC attack where I could not crash dive away safely. Sometimes I even take the time to decide if I should dive or fight it out.

[Rubini]

Can you make only hidrophone mod for 16km gwx ?
The hydrophone and airplane section of the mod will be the same that are in the 8km version (99% sure).

In 16 km mod sometimes your game only stop from a TC with airplanes over you?:hmm:

Is that an actual question? I usually don't go above 128x in AC patroled areas, and so far I never had an AC attack where I could not crash dive away safely. Sometimes I even take the time to decide if I should dive or fight it out.

Hummm...but you have RWR enable, no? I'm refering to crew visual detection only..this normally on stock and big mods in general only occurs over you head even in low TC...:hmm:

With RWR enable even without the Stay Alert crew this isn´t a problem. This mod only refers to visual and hydrophone.;)

[Henri II]

Nope, no RWR. Usually I sail around early in the war, when hardly anyone has radar. With a watch officer and a pettyofficer with watch quallification I'm hardly ever surprised by anything. Planes are usually spotted well before I can see them with binocculars.

[Rubini]

Nope, no RWR. Usually I sail around early in the war, when hardly anyone has radar. With a watch officer and a pettyofficer with watch quallification I'm hardly ever surprised by anything. Planes are usually spotted well before I can see them with binocculars.

That´s better then! Seems that 16km version will not need the airplane fix section.
GWX settings are really better for 16km than 8km for visual purposes. The LRG mod push it in this direction.;)

[Venatore]

Update Released!
March 29, 2007
"Stay Alert - crew fix" mod for GWX and Stock game version 1.c
This is a 8km version only.
This version have the new fix for the visual airplanes detection.
================================================== ==================
Here the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/23281282/Stay_Alert__crew_fix_v1c.7z.html


Thankyou very much for your hard work in researching and making this into a mod.

[Samwolf]

Can you make only hidrophone mod for 16km gwx ?
The hydrophone and airplane section of the mod will be the same that are in the 8km version (99% sure).

In 16 km mod sometimes your game only stop from a TC with airplanes over you?:hmm:

Is that an actual question? I usually don't go above 128x in AC patroled areas, and so far I never had an AC attack where I could not crash dive away safely. Sometimes I even take the time to decide if I should dive or fight it out.

Hummm...but you have RWR enable, no? I'm refering to crew visual detection only..this normally on stock and big mods in general only occurs over you head even in low TC...:hmm:

With RWR enable even without the Stay Alert crew this isn´t a problem. This mod only refers to visual and hydrophone.;)

I play early war with no RWR and use 64 TC in aircraft patroled areas. I almost always have time to crash dive. I'm using the 16km mod .

[Rubini]

Can you make only hidrophone mod for 16km gwx ?
The hydrophone and airplane section of the mod will be the same that are in the 8km version (99% sure).

In 16 km mod sometimes your game only stop from a TC with airplanes over you?:hmm:

Is that an actual question? I usually don't go above 128x in AC patroled areas, and so far I never had an AC attack where I could not crash dive away safely. Sometimes I even take the time to decide if I should dive or fight it out.

Hummm...but you have RWR enable, no? I'm refering to crew visual detection only..this normally on stock and big mods in general only occurs over you head even in low TC...:hmm:

With RWR enable even without the Stay Alert crew this isn´t a problem. This mod only refers to visual and hydrophone.;)

I play early war with no RWR and use 64 TC in aircraft patroled areas. I almost always have time to crash dive. I'm using the 16km mod .

Yes, the aircraft fix will be not necessary for 16km. The Hydrophone is already done. We just need more reports about the visual section and the mod could then finally arrive.

[Capt.Crackerjack]

Excellent mod, Rubini!:up:

I have two versions loaded into my JSGME (39-41 Jungman and 42-45 standard) so that a simple selection covers the entire war in a much more realistic manner.:yep:

Thanks so much for your fine efforts!

[Laffertytig]

ok heres a question then. im to attached to the 16km mod to ditch it but the hydrophone changes interest me. in gwx the AI sonar man can only hear up roughly 17km away correct? it gets really tediuos to man the sonar station every few hours so is it possible to just implement your hydrophone changes until u make this mod 16km friendly?

if it is possible i assume i could add the changes during a patrol simply by rolling back sub commander?

thanx in advance

[Rubini]

ok heres a question then. im to attached to the 16km mod to ditch it but the hydrophone changes interest me. in gwx the AI sonar man can only hear up roughly 17km away correct? it gets really tediuos to man the sonar station every few hours so is it possible to just implement your hydrophone changes until u make this mod 16km friendly?

if it is possible i assume i could add the changes during a patrol simply by rolling back sub commander?

thanx in advance
Yes and yes.

Probably tomorrow I will release only the hydrophones section for 16km, ok?;)

[Rubini]

Excellent mod, Rubini!:up:

I have two versions loaded into my JSGME (39-41 Jungman and 42-45 standard) so that a simple selection covers the entire war in a much more realistic manner.:yep:

Thanks so much for your fine efforts!

Yes, this is as i´m using. I just made some more ajusts over Jungman ones (over the one in the last release of this mod) and now I have a yet more balanced gameplay.;)

[HEMISENT]

ok heres a question then. im to attached to the 16km mod to ditch it but the hydrophone changes interest me. in gwx the AI sonar man can only hear up roughly 17km away correct? it gets really tediuos to man the sonar station every few hours so is it possible to just implement your hydrophone changes until u make this mod 16km friendly?

if it is possible i assume i could add the changes during a patrol simply by rolling back sub commander?

thanx in advance
Yes and yes.

Probably tomorrow I will release only the hydrophones section for 16km, ok?;)

Boy Rubini, that would be great. I'd really appreciate getting the hydrophones up to speed for once. Thanks for all the effort.

[Rubini]

ok heres a question then. im to attached to the 16km mod to ditch it but the hydrophone changes interest me. in gwx the AI sonar man can only hear up roughly 17km away correct? it gets really tediuos to man the sonar station every few hours so is it possible to just implement your hydrophone changes until u make this mod 16km friendly?

if it is possible i assume i could add the changes during a patrol simply by rolling back sub commander?

thanx in advance
Yes and yes.

Probably tomorrow I will release only the hydrophones section for 16km, ok?;)

Boy Rubini, that would be great. I'd really appreciate getting the hydrophones up to speed for once. Thanks for all the effort.

Ok. Give me one day!:D

[bert8for3]

Here are a couple more visual observations in 16k. I spent a while bouncing around with a convoy, then realized that it's better to have just one target, since it helps for the crew to be reporting the same target you're looking at <g>. So I started a new career, also with activated map/target updates, auto id, etc 'cause that helps getting the info more precise.

I'm going to give more info than is probably necessary but I don't know all the variables that are built into the game (vs real life) for visual distance.
This is pretty accurate on the distances, since I also had a bit of a system. I run t/c until pick up a contact by crew sighting. Then get ship id and speed/course. Then I run ahead but parallel out of crew visual range and then wait for ship to reappear. This means I'm sighting the target myself at earliest moment since I know where to look.

1. Night. 2100. September. Cloud 10/10. Sea abt 4 (on 10). I would say low fog, although it's hard to distinguish sometimes between distant cloud cover and fog. Merchant (like a goof I forgot to get ship id :damn: , so this is probably useless ... not the largest merchant class, but not smallest), sighted by me @abt 9000 metres or a bit less. Crew sighted at 8400 m.
2. Day. 1126. September. Cloud 10/10. Sea abt 2/10. Lightning (occasional). Low fog. Large cargo sighted by me @10,000. Note @10k I could only just see the merchant without binoculars, and because I knew where to look. The merchant was in plain sight at more like 9000 m. Crew sighted at 8200 m. and lost visual at 9500 m. or a bit more. Interesting point, I then flanked ahead and cut hard right to look for another target, in doing so the crew re-acquired visual on the target ... @8700 m. So it's not a constant given same weather conditions? :hmm:

Now that I have the hang of it, I'll be able to do a bunch more pretty quickly over the next couple of days. Stay tuned.

[Rubini]

Here are a couple more visual observations in 16k. I spent a while bouncing around with a convoy, then realized that it's better to have just one target, since it helps for the crew to be reporting the same target you're looking at <g>. So I started a new career, also with activated map/target updates, auto id, etc 'cause that helps getting the info more precise.

I'm going to give more info than is probably necessary but I don't know all the variables that are built into the game (vs real life) for visual distance.
This is pretty accurate on the distances, since I also had a bit of a system. I run t/c until pick up a contact by crew sighting. Then get ship id and speed/course. Then I run ahead but parallel out of crew visual range and then wait for ship to reappear. This means I'm sighting the target myself at earliest moment since I know where to look.

1. Night. 2100. September. Cloud 10/10. Sea abt 4 (on 10). I would say low fog, although it's hard to distinguish sometimes between distant cloud cover and fog. Merchant (like a goof I forgot to get ship id :damn: , so this is probably useless ... not the largest merchant class, but not smallest), sighted by me @abt 9000 metres or a bit less. Crew sighted at 8400 m.
2. Day. 1126. September. Cloud 10/10. Sea abt 2/10. Lightning (occasional). Low fog. Large cargo sighted by me @10,000. Note @10k I could only just see the merchant without binoculars, and because I knew where to look. The merchant was in plain sight at more like 9000 m. Crew sighted at 8200 m. and lost visual at 9500 m. or a bit more. Interesting point, I then flanked ahead and cut hard right to look for another target, in doing so the crew re-acquired visual on the target ... @8700 m. So it's not a constant given same weather conditions? :hmm:

Now that I have the hang of it, I'll be able to do a bunch more pretty quickly over the next couple of days. Stay tuned.

Thanks mate!

About the weather, to we have the same condition to compare, always ask to your WO what is the weather and then relate it on the report, ok?

In game we have only 4 types of fog: no fog, light, medium and heavy. Night and day. I made my tests in an absolutelly controled environment for 8km then was more easy and quickly to have the correct results and also to test the changes. I always used a same single mission, just changing the weather and time on the mission editor and so on.;)

[bert8for3]

...
About the weather, to we have the same condition to compare, always ask to your WO what is the weather and then relate it on the report, ok?

ok, I'll do that. :up:

...
In game we have only 4 types of fog: no fog, light, medium and heavy. Night and day. I made my tests in an absolutelly controled environment for 8km then was more easy and quickly to have the correct results and also to test the changes. I always used a same single mission, just changing the weather and time on the mission editor and so on.;)

Uummm ... I've never used the mission editor, I can imagine how it would speed things up, ... I'll see if I can figure it out, but if I can't (more likely :doh: ) I'll have to keep doing it through career.

[tonyeh]

Hi Rubini,

This is a great mod...thanks!

But, I think the spotting ability of the crew is a little overdone at the moment. My crew can spot ships before they're onscreen. Last night my crew spotted a ship in clear daylight, but it actually took about 2 or 3 minutes before the smoke from the tanker they saw actually appeared faintly.

Is is possible to turn their sight down a liittle bit?

Or am I the only one who has experienced this?

The Hydrophones are a great improvement too!

Tony

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

This is a great mod...thanks!

But, I think the spotting ability of the crew is a little overdone at the moment. My crew can spot ships before they're onscreen. Last night my crew spotted a ship in clear daylight, but it actually took about 2 or 3 minutes before the smoke from the tanker they saw actually appeared faintly.

Is is possible to turn their sight down a liittle bit?

Or am I the only one who has experienced this?

The Hydrophones are a great improvement too!

Tony
Thanks for the feedback. I pushed the visual section a bit to away after the aircraft adjust.
So, I also noticed in my last patrol that my crew sometimes are seeing things some minutes before I can see. I will lower this eagle eyes a bit. But probably the crew will becomes again a bit blind to small ships and small airplanes. This balance is very dificult to achieve and sometimes just impossible due SH3 limitations.

Please continue to post feedbacks. This is the unique way to we have a better balanced mod!:up:

[tonyeh]

Cheers Rubini,

I mst say again that it's a pleasure to have sombody at the hydrophones who can hear!!!:up:


Tony

[Capt.Crackerjack]

Excellent mod, Rubini!:up:

I have two versions loaded into my JSGME (39-41 Jungman and 42-45 standard) so that a simple selection covers the entire war in a much more realistic manner.:yep:

Thanks so much for your fine efforts!

Yes, this is as i´m using. I just made some more ajusts over Jungman ones (over the one in the last release of this mod) and now I have a yet more balanced gameplay.;)

Have been on patrol using the Jungman AI sensor. I think it is ok for 1939, but it should be stepped up for 40-41: about halfway between Jungman and Standard AI? Will you be able to do that and provide us with the three AI sensor files?

Also, I think the visual eagle eye crew is fine, although a slight (!) reduction might be ok, but please do not decrease this too much!

Lastly, here are some sightings data:

1) Crew sighted DD in late afternoon at 8800m with partial clouds, no precip, no fog; I spotted* it at 8400m.

2) Sonar contact with MV coastal merchant at 21.4km.

3) Crew sighted same MV coastal merchant at 5000m during night with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 4800m.

4) Crew sighted Swordfish aircraft at 3500m with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 3200m.

*I normally do not spend much time scanning with binocs, because that is why I have the Watch Officer and crew on deck. I usually spot after being alerted by the WO.

This is truly a great mod, Rubini, and I prefer it with the default 8km mode. Thanks for your great efforts!

[bert8for3]

@Rubini:
So I have the mission editor figured out, at least to the point that I can set up a simple visual sighting mission. I see what you mean about being able to set the weather conditions. It'll be easy to set up a series of different missions with different weather conditions.

Here's a first one, mainly as an example for you, under "controlled" conditions:
Day / light fog / merchant - Large tanker / weather report "Clouds clear, precipitations none, fog light, wind speed 5 mps, direction 0" / Player sights merchant at 8600 m / Crew sights merchant at 8600 m. /

This prompts a few questions before I go any further:

Should I have realistic sensors selected in difficulty?

Should the player visual acquisition distance be based on the naked eye under best possible circumstances? i.e. using binoculars and knowing where to look for the target, I could just make it out at as a pretty faint blur at 8800-9000 m or maybe even a bit more than 9000. But under normal conditions scanning the horizon, and without binoculars, it is very unlikely that I would have seen the target before it showed a better outline with a touch of smoke on the horizon, which is the 8600 m. distance.

Does AoB of sighting make a difference? This was at pretty much 90deg.
There are obviously a lot of in-game variables. How many and which of these should be tested for each ship. And how many ships, or types?

[Rubini]

Excellent mod, Rubini!:up:

I have two versions loaded into my JSGME (39-41 Jungman and 42-45 standard) so that a simple selection covers the entire war in a much more realistic manner.:yep:

Thanks so much for your fine efforts!

Yes, this is as i´m using. I just made some more ajusts over Jungman ones (over the one in the last release of this mod) and now I have a yet more balanced gameplay.;)

Have been on patrol using the Jungman AI sensor. I think it is ok for 1939, but it should be stepped up for 40-41: about halfway between Jungman and Standard AI? Will you be able to do that and provide us with the three AI sensor files?

Also, I think the visual eagle eye crew is fine, although a slight (!) reduction might be ok, but please do not decrease this too much!

Lastly, here are some sightings data:

1) Crew sighted DD in late afternoon at 8800m with partial clouds, no precip, no fog; I spotted* it at 8400m.

2) Sonar contact with MV coastal merchant at 21.4km.

3) Crew sighted same MV coastal merchant at 5000m during night with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 4800m.

4) Crew sighted Swordfish aircraft at 3500m with partial clouds, no precip, light fog: I spotted* it at 3200m.

*I normally do not spend much time scanning with binocs, because that is why I have the Watch Officer and crew on deck. I usually spot after being alerted by the WO.

This is truly a great mod, Rubini, and I prefer it with the default 8km mode. Thanks for your great efforts!

Again, thanks for the feedback and is good to know that you also have good results as I have.:up:

And yes, I have now three AI_sensors: The more like Jungman ones (that are in the mod), a second a bit more hard over Jungman's one and finally the adapted GWX one (also on the mod). If you want it (the second one) just PM me with your email.

About the reduction on the crew hability to see things...it's really only necessary a slight reduce...but all we need to not forget that SH3 always put some random on calculation (what is good in my opinion) so we never will have always the same exact spot for the player and the crew, but we in truth will have the best average distances where the crew and player will almost see at same time.

I will not release a new update with new adjusts, etc, etc.
I will say how to make this by yourself, I´m sure that this is the more democratic way.
The trick is simple: open your sensors.cfg (on data/cfg folder) - I´m speaking about the files that are in this mod - don´t use others files outside this mod because you will not get the same result.
It´s a text file. Locate this entry under visual section:

[SensorParameters]
; Sensors Detection Parameters

;Visual.
Visual range factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual fog factor=0.8 ;[>=0]1 (use 0.9 to 0.8)
Visual light factor=0.9

And change (raise) it to 0.82 or 0.83 to have a less eagle eyes crew.
Lower it to have a more eagle eye crew. Notice that I already wrote the possible interval for this mod on that line: (0.9 to 0.8), 1 was the stock number.;)
Remember that I said that the devs left it almost balanced? lol.
The changes needs to be very slight because if you do so much you will have a non balanced game in the end (poblems in fog or at night, etc)

Hopes that this could help and open new possibilities to all users of this mod.
I adjusted my game to 0.82 after some patrols. This is necessary because after i made the adjusts for airplanes this value becomes a bit to the "eagle eyes" side. Then a small adjust will be enough if you really want it!:know:

[Rubini]

@Rubini:
So I have the mission editor figured out, at least to the point that I can set up a simple visual sighting mission. I see what you mean about being able to set the weather conditions. It'll be easy to set up a series of different missions with different weather conditions.

Here's a first one, mainly as an example for you, under "controlled" conditions:
Day / light fog / merchant - Large tanker / weather report "Clouds clear, precipitations none, fog light, wind speed 5 mps, direction 0" / Player sights merchant at 8600 m / Crew sights merchant at 8600 m. /

This prompts a few questions before I go any further:

Should I have realistic sensors selected in difficulty?

Should the player visual acquisition distance be based on the naked eye under best possible circumstances? i.e. using binoculars and knowing where to look for the target, I could just make it out at as a pretty faint blur at 8800-9000 m or maybe even a bit more than 9000. But under normal conditions scanning the horizon, and without binoculars, it is very unlikely that I would have seen the target before it showed a better outline with a touch of smoke on the horizon, which is the 8600 m. distance.

Does AoB of sighting make a difference? This was at pretty much 90deg.
There are obviously a lot of in-game variables. How many and which of these should be tested for each ship. And how many ships, or types?

You are learning fast my friend!

Yes i also uses the ME (mission editor) and make a simple single mission to test the visual contact. I always use these main settings: 12:30 and 23:30, near equator line and runs my tests windowed without sounds but listening music to make this process less boring.
Then after each test you could just clik on your ME that is opened on the background, changes the weather varibales, save the SM again and restart the patrol without restart the game. I also uses a special mini mod with empty campaign files that i enable or disable with JSGME only for testing purposes to speedy up my load times more than five times. I also always test with small and big ships, small and big planes, day and night with all the four fog types. Also After good results i tested on the transition between day and night (SH3 makes different results here...). And i make this at least 5 or 6 time per test. Ufff... I´m crazy!
Ah, don´t forget that you will have medium and heavy fogs only using the heavy clouds on ME. Check this on the tests.;)

Yes, always use the Realistic sensors checked!

The best distance for the player is that where you can see the smoke (even a faint one) using binoculars on the tower watch. This probably will show some individual limitation between all us and is also dependant of how dark is the room where you are making the test. So an average one is enough! :cool:

And to finish, yes the AOB makes a huge difference. In the edges SH3 shows a smoke that isn´t visible in a +/- 45 degrees from your ahead. I made this mod using +/- 90 degrees maximum!

After all this I´m waiting yours reports to make the 16km mod.
Just kidding! I´m really without free time for the next days....

[bert8for3]

@Rubini:

Not sure what you mean by this: "I also uses a special mini mod with empty campaign files that i enable or disable with JSGME only for testing purposes to speedy up my load times more than five times." AFAIK, I'm not working any campaign files, just single mis files.

edit: Oh, and btw, the results I posted just earlier were with realistic sensors on.

[Rubini]

@Rubini:

Not sure what you mean by this: "I also uses a special mini mod with empty campaign files that i enable or disable with JSGME only for testing purposes to speedy up my load times more than five times." AFAIK, I'm not working any campaign files, just single mis files.

edit: Oh, and btw, the results I posted just earlier were with realistic sensors on.

You don´t are messing with the campaign files but SH3 ready them and all the hundreds of units inside each time that you fire a simple single mission...then the load time is very long...

Here. Install using JSGME at anytime that you need to make tests!
http://rapidshare.com/files/24059901/Empty_campaign.7z.html

[bert8for3]

You don´t are messing with the campaign files but SH3 ready them and all the hundreds of units inside each time that you fire a simple single mission...then the load time is very long...

Here. Install using JSGME at anytime that you need to make tests!
http://rapidshare.com/files/24059901/Empty_campaign.7z.html

Ah, understood, it was indeed taking a very long time to load. Tks.

[Rubini]

You don´t are messing with the campaign files but SH3 ready them and all the hundreds of units inside each time that you fire a simple single mission...then the load time is very long...

Here. Install using JSGME at anytime that you need to make tests!
http://rapidshare.com/files/24059901/Empty_campaign.7z.html

Ah, understood, it was indeed taking a very long time to load. Tks.

I forgot to say that I always use 128TC to test (a middle ground to an average player in game situation). And I also set my game to pause when find a contact what always will give me the right distance, which i can measure with the rule or just unpause and ask to my WO!

[Capt.Crackerjack]

Thanks, Rubini and please check your PM!:yep:

[Rubini]

Ok!
Check your email!;)

[mikaelanderlund]

Can you make only hidrophone mod for 16km gwx ?
The hydrophone and airplane section of the mod will be the same that are in the 8km version (99% sure).

In 16 km mod sometimes your game only stop from a TC with airplanes over you?:hmm:

Is that an actual question? I usually don't go above 128x in AC patroled areas, and so far I never had an AC attack where I could not crash dive away safely. Sometimes I even take the time to decide if I should dive or fight it out.

Hummm...but you have RWR enable, no? I'm refering to crew visual detection only..this normally on stock and big mods in general only occurs over you head even in low TC...:hmm:

With RWR enable even without the Stay Alert crew this isn´t a problem. This mod only refers to visual and hydrophone.;)

I play early war with no RWR and use 64 TC in aircraft patroled areas. I almost always have time to crash dive. I'm using the 16km mod .

Yes, the aircraft fix will be not necessary for 16km. The Hydrophone is already done. We just need more reports about the visual section and the mod could then finally arrive.

Hi Rubini,

do you have any news of "Stay Alert - crew fix 16km version" ? I think your 8km mod works great :up: but I would like to have a 16km version if possible. Are you still planing a 16 km version?

Mikael

[Rubini]

Thanks for the interest mate!

Like I said the Hydrophone section is almost done and the visual (and even the airplanes section) needs a lot of tests. I'm really short in free time until next wednesday...meanwhile 2 others Kaleuns are making the tests...so I can't promisse..but I guess that in the other weekend we will have good news.;)
Stay tuned!

[Jimbuna]

Music to my ears kaleun :up: (still playing your 8km version) :rock:

[Woof1701]

Great Rubini!! Thanks a lot for the effort. Are you already working on including Ducimus' mod as well, or is that reserved for the next step?

Have a nice Easter Holiday everyone.

[Hitman]

Rubini, would you mind when you finish your tweaks adding a list of the exact changes done with the Minitweaker in the AI_Sensors.dat file? I'm interested in trying to ocuple your mod together with CB's Des mod, and I think both can be made very compatible, so that at the same time AI sensors and behaviour is improved. I'm doing it for a small "super-mod" I'm working on, which would make only gameplay tweaks, no eye-candy, with the purpose of being good for people who either have low-end computers or want to add eye-candy one by one to their liking or hardware possibilities.:up:

Thanks

[Rubini]

Great Rubini!! Thanks a lot for the effort. Are you already working on including Ducimus' mod as well, or is that reserved for the next step?

Have a nice Easter Holiday everyone.

If the 16km version arrive I will make also a compatible version with Ducimus' AI_sensors!;)

[Rubini]

Rubini, would you mind when you finish your tweaks adding a list of the exact changes done with the Minitweaker in the AI_Sensors.dat file? I'm interested in trying to ocuple your mod together with CB's Des mod, and I think both can be made very compatible, so that at the same time AI sensors and behaviour is improved. I'm doing it for a small "super-mod" I'm working on, which would make only gameplay tweaks, no eye-candy, with the purpose of being good for people who either have low-end computers or want to add eye-candy one by one to their liking or hardware possibilities.:up:

Thanks

Hi Hitman,

I already made a "big" readme with all the values that I changed well explained. Do you read it? It´s on the mod package...

About adjusts and compatibility with others sensors package...well, what I did needed alot of tests and fine tuning. But i guess that with patience and alot of detailed observation is possible to adjust my mod for any package. Just don´t forget that you need to mess with the four files: Sim.cfg, Sensors.cfg, Ai_sensors.dat and Sensors.dat to have coherent results in the end.:up:

[mikaelanderlund]

Great Rubini!! Thanks a lot for the effort. Are you already working on including Ducimus' mod as well, or is that reserved for the next step?

Have a nice Easter Holiday everyone.

If the 16km version arrive I will make also a compatible version with Ducimus' AI_sensors!;)

That would be great:rock: :rock: :rock:

Mikael

[Hitman]

Hi Hitman,

I already made a "big" readme with all the values that I changed well explained. Do you read it? It´s on the mod package...



Arghhh...me idiot had somehow skipped that part :nope: Just found it, thanks:up:

About adjusts and compatibility with others sensors package...well, what I did needed alot of tests and fine tuning. But i guess that with patience and alot of detailed observation is possible to adjust my mod for any package. Just don´t forget that you need to mess with the four files: Sim.cfg, Sensors.cfg, Ai_sensors.dat and Sensors.dat to have coherent results in the end.:up:

The great thing about CB's pack is that it does not touch the sensors almost at all, but instead more the enemy AI behaviour, so I think both mods can be well complementary.

[Woof1701]

Great Rubini!! Thanks a lot for the effort. Are you already working on including Ducimus' mod as well, or is that reserved for the next step?

Have a nice Easter Holiday everyone.

If the 16km version arrive I will make also a compatible version with Ducimus' AI_sensors!;)

Great. Thanks Rubini. Can't wait :up:

[Wilcke]

Hi Rubini,

Still out on Patrol with your mod and its working very well. Nothing going wrong as far as I can see....I will stick to this mod and 8k. If you release a 16k...GREAT...let me know if you need a Beta tester.

Thanks and well done!

Wilcke

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

Still out on Patrol with your mod and its working very well. Nothing going wrong as far as I can see....I will stick to this mod and 8k. If you release a 16k...GREAT...let me know if you need a Beta tester.

Thanks and well done!

Wilcke

Thanks Wilcke!

Sorry for the delay in reply, I was in a trip all the holiday.
I will receive the first test results on the next wednesday. Then i will start the work on 16km version. I will contact you for the beta tests ok?;)

[Wilcke]

Oh, no problem, at all, been away also having "fun" away from the computer....I will be ready whenever the MOD is ready!

Thanks!

Wilcke

[Reece]

After quite a while using the 8k version I can say that it is a VAST improvement over the stock/GWX version both visual & hydraphone sensors, the only problem I'm having at the moment is uber DD's, I just installed the AI_Sensors_Jungman_GWX.dat file & will give this a go!:up:
Thanks again Rubini.:yep:

[Rubini]

Thanks for the feedback Reece!

The 16km version will arrive in some days!;)

[Jimbuna]

The 16km version will arrive in some days :up:

[Wilcke]

Rubini,

No need to respond, I am on a longer patrol now, VIIB, 09/1940. The Stay Alert 8k continues to work real well and no glitches. This is superb.

Ready for the 16k Beta, have another fresh install of GWX 1.03 awaiting!:up:

Good work man!

Wilcke

[Redfox11]

The 16km version will arrive in some days :up:


:up: :up: :up:

[Alex]

:cool:

:up:

[mikaelanderlund]

Thanks for the feedback Reece!

The 16km version will arrive in some days!;)

Thanks Rubini. Can't wait! :D . This mod together with the upcoming GWX 1.04 will make my day:sunny: .

Mikael

[Reece]

This is not so good news ... started a new patrol using AI_Sensors_Jungman_GWX.dat file & this works great, though does seem to be an overkill now with DD's almost deaf, well that's what it seems & now my hydraphone operators are deaf again, I thought the AI sensors would have no effect, but at periscope depth and the DD about 1km away on a bearing of 65 degrees the crew reports no contact, I could then proceed with TC greater than 32! I definitely only changed that 1 file!:cry:

[Jimbuna]

Personally mate, I'd take Jungman out :arrgh!:

[Makr]

This is not so good news ... started a new patrol using AI_Sensors_Jungman_GWX.dat

What is this? Is this file part of the mod, or something you added in?

[Reece]

It's in the options folder, can use mod as is or replace the dat & cfg files with others supplied!:yep:
Rubini, I do use SH3 Commander & that may have altered the AI sensor file, (I didn't roll back when putting the new file in) I will try again but I doubt that this would cause uboat hydraphones to change! I always seem to get myself in the Poo!:lol:

[Wilcke]

I know what you mean sometimes you just forget especially late at night!:dead: I am so glad I have a backed up SH3 1.4b fresh and ready to go! Saves a lot of time after I bungle up an install!

Wilcke

[Rubini]

Hi guys,

I started the work on 16km after the great help of bert8for3 which provide me a complete bunch of tests for GWX 16km version.

The first conclusion is that the main problem is really with the 8km version on GWX and stock (probably also on others big mods). The 16 km, despite also have a slight blind and deaf crew, rarely have that annoying problem to be stopped from a TC under enemy fire. This is really more common on 8km version because, like I said, the big mods only provide one set (the same files) of sensors files for both 8km and 16km versions, and this settings are normally more adjusted for 16km.
Definitively, each version needs it's own sensors files.

I will be out on the weekend but expect the 16km fix mod for the next week.;)

@Reece: well, yes, Jungman AI_sensors is a bit more easy to play with. This is why I suggest to only use it on the early war. But the problem that you describe is probably some type of mess that you made with yours files. Install the mod again!

[Jimbuna]

I will be out on the weekend but expect the 16km fix mod for the next week.

Nice one Rubini :up: :arrgh!:

[Wilcke]

Rubini,

Have a good one! :up:

Wilcke

[Reece]

Thanks for the reply Rubini, yes I have found SH3 Commander have varying AI_Sensors.dat files & cfg files that mess things up a bit, I have rolled back & removed them from the various random folders etc. Mod seem to be functioning properly now.:up: One unusual thing is that I often get no contact, then going to Hydraphone, point to ship sound, shows the type, THEN the crew start reporting the contact, but as soon as I leave to external view all goes quiet again! until I press "H", is this a stock bug?:-?

[Rubini]

Thanks for the reply Rubini, yes I have found SH3 Commander have varying AI_Sensors.dat files & cfg files that mess things up a bit, I have rolled back & removed them from the various random folders etc. Mod seem to be functioning properly now.:up: One unusual thing is that I often get no contact, then going to Hydraphone, point to ship sound, shows the type, THEN the crew start reporting the contact, but as soon as I leave to external view all goes quiet again! until I press "H", is this a stock bug?:-?
Yes, I think so.
The hydrophones is the most important thing that was left unfinished by the Devs. Raduz that was also working with Hydrophones also find a lot of small bugs on it.

Anyway this mod don´t makes any deep change on hydophones (in truth in any settings). On Hydrophones I just raised it´s deafult range and "velocity" of the detection by the crew. So this type of bug that you describe is not related with these changes. I also had noticed them before this mod.;)

[Reece]

Thanks Rubini, I finally came across plenty of aircraft near Scapa Flow (early 1941), been a bit scarce till now, although visual sightings & hydraphones have been great this does not apply to aircraft, twice I have had to reload the game, as soon as the aircraft is spotted it is too late, there is no time to dive, if you stay on the surface and fight, bombs drop directly on deck and kill you, if you do manage to dive they drop bombs on deck and you die!:x This is the 8k version, is there a way to spot them earlier & make them not quite so Uber?:cry: I double checked the files:
Sensors.dat (30k version)
AI_Sensors.dat (Jungman)
Sim.cfg & Sensors.cfg
They are definitely the correct ones.:yep:
Any help would be appreciated.

[panzerschutze12ss]

Does anybody have this MOD posted on FileFront? Can not download it off Rapidshare and would really like to try this MOD. If nobody has it up on FileFront could sombody please let me know if they would be willing to send it by e-mail to me. Thank You

[poor sailor]

Does anybody have this MOD posted on FileFront? Can not download it off Rapidshare and would really like to try this MOD. If nobody has it up on FileFront could sombody please let me know if they would be willing to send it by e-mail to me. Thank You
I already posted another link in this thread but here you go again http://files.filefront.com/Stay_Alert__crew_fix_v1c7z/;7063930;/fileinfo.html

[panzerschutze12ss]

Thanks PoorSailor! I'm pretty good in serching the threads for the answers to my prob. But in haste I missed your post. As they say it's the one you don't see that gets you. THANKS AGAIN!

NOW I"LL GO AND :damn: AGAINST THE BULKHEAD!!!!

[Rubini]

Thanks Rubini, I finally came across plenty of aircraft near Scapa Flow (early 1941), been a bit scarce till now, although visual sightings & hydraphones have been great this does not apply to aircraft, twice I have had to reload the game, as soon as the aircraft is spotted it is too late, there is no time to dive, if you stay on the surface and fight, bombs drop directly on deck and kill you, if you do manage to dive they drop bombs on deck and you die!:x This is the 8k version, is there a way to spot them earlier & make them not quite so Uber?:cry: I double checked the files:
Sensors.dat (30k version)
AI_Sensors.dat (Jungman)
Sim.cfg & Sensors.cfg
They are definitely the correct ones.:yep:
Any help would be appreciated.

I can ensure to you that the planes are now detected far before than in the original GWX/Stock...and it is plane size dependant. Anyway the small aircraft are yet not detected in a good distance, but the medium and big ones probably will be. It's always possible to put this yet far distant but we will notice some small side effects...the small ships will become to be detected also so far away.
Another necessary comment is about fog presence. The game really makes the airplanes/small ships a bit more difficult to detect when you have fog.

Anybody more have some feedback on planes detection or noticed some other odd side effect? If needed I can adjust the planes detection to go yet more distant.;)

@Reece: can you test a adjusted version of the Sensors.dat when the airplanes detection will be the double distance that you have now?

[Reece]

@Reece: can you test a adjusted version of the Sensors.dat when the airplanes detection will be the double distance that you have now? Yes there is a saved version about 300k before the area of this incident, or, if required I can restart a new patrol, go back there, & deliberately "hang around" to see what happens!:up:
The planes are Hurricanes I think, sound sluggish, 1 prop.
Thanks, eagerly wait for link!:yep:
Cheers.

PS. Was a clear day.

[Rubini]

@Reece: can you test a adjusted version of the Sensors.dat when the airplanes detection will be the double distance that you have now? Yes there is a saved version about 300k before the area of this incident, or, if required I can restart a new patrol, go back there, & deliberately "hang around" to see what happens!:up:
The planes are Hurricanes I think, sound sluggish, 1 prop.
Thanks, eagerly wait for link!:yep:
Cheers.

PS. Was a clear day.
Yes, you can enable middle patrol. Then you can use your saved game.;)
I will post the link some hours later (i'm at my work now).

[Reece]

Thanks, don't rush, It's just after midnight here so I'm off for my beauty sleep now!:88)
Cheers.

[poor sailor]

I can ensure to you that the planes are now detected far before than in the original GWX/Stock...and it is plane size dependant. Anyway the small aircraft are yet not detected in a good distance, but the medium and big ones probably will be. It's always possible to put this yet far distant but we will notice some small side effects...the small ships will become to be detected also so far away.
Another necessary comment is about fog presence. The game really makes the airplanes/small ships a bit more difficult to detect when you have fog.

Anybody more have some feedback on planes detection or noticed some other odd side effect? If needed I can adjust the planes detection to go yet more distant.;)

I did some test in my patrol. It's a 1943 and there is a lot of planes in Bay of Biscay :)
Well, because I use assisted plotting mod I haven't the right measure of distance because the line is dotted, but usualy when I have "Radar signal message" I dive to be safe, in this test I let the crew to tell me "Aircraft spotted", when It's happened I instantly ordered crash dive and I had a little damage to my VIIC, about 3%, the plane got me before I dived (Weather is clear, night, early morning, about 4:30AM). In previous test I did when your mod came out I haven't same problem and I dive safely. Maybe some little adjustments needed to see a plane on time to dive safely? Anyway great mod and in my list of favourite mods!:up:

[Rubini]

I can ensure to you that the planes are now detected far before than in the original GWX/Stock...and it is plane size dependant. Anyway the small aircraft are yet not detected in a good distance, but the medium and big ones probably will be. It's always possible to put this yet far distant but we will notice some small side effects...the small ships will become to be detected also so far away.
Another necessary comment is about fog presence. The game really makes the airplanes/small ships a bit more difficult to detect when you have fog.

Anybody more have some feedback on planes detection or noticed some other odd side effect? If needed I can adjust the planes detection to go yet more distant.;)

I did some test in my patrol. It's a 1943 and there is a lot of planes in Bay of Biscay :)
Well, because I use assisted plotting mod I haven't the right measure of distance because the line is dotted, but usualy when I have "Radar signal message" I dive to be safe, in this test I let the crew to tell me "Aircraft spotted", when It's happened I instantly ordered crash dive and I had a little damage to my VIIC, about 3%, the plane got me before I dived (Weather is clear, night, early morning, about 4:30AM). In previous test I did when your mod came out I haven't same problem and I dive safely. Maybe some little adjustments needed to see a plane on time to dive safely? Anyway great mod and in my list of favourite mods!:up:

Thanks for the feedback mate!

You said that this test was at night. Well, at night is really difficult to see the aircraft and the game (and the mod) shows this correctly i think.:hmm:
But I´m absolutelly open minded in this question. The mod can (and must) be adjusted for what we think that is the best for gameplay (and realism if possible).
I will post a version with more smart crew to detect airplanes visually. Have choices is the best part of the mods!;)

Or i can show how to make this by yourself...what I trhink that is the best way to go:D
It´s just one value on the Sensors.dat file!

[poor sailor]

Or i can show how to make this by yourself...what I trhink that is the best way to go:D
It´s just one value on the Sensors.dat file!
That's no problem, show me what to do and I will do it myself. And of course, which opening tool I need to made that change in sensors.dat? Thanks for your help!

[Rubini]

Ok!
Open the Sensors.dat from the Stay Alert crew fix mod using TT tweak (you will need the sensors_dat.txt for TTtweak specifically for GWX - someone post it here at this forum some days ago).

Locate this line under "Visual":
Surface=60 and lower it (I suggest something between 40 to 20).

That is all. Don't forget to delete the copy that TT tweak put automatically on the library folder and you are ready to go. The planes will start to be detected (visually) far away now. Can be made middle patrol.

Please post comments later if you try it!;)

[poor sailor]

Ok!
Open the Sensors.dat from the Stay Alert crew fix mod using TT tweak (you will need the sensors_dat.txt for TTtweak specifically for GWX - someone post it here at this forum some days ago).

Locate this line under "Visual":
Surface=60 and lower it (I suggest something between 40 to 20).

That is all. Don't forget to delete the copy that TT tweak put automatically on the library folder and you are ready to go. The planes will start to be detected (visually) far away now. Can be made middle patrol.

Please post comments later if you try it!;)
Many thanks, I will post the results later, of course!:up:

[Spytrx]

Ok, I read a lot about Jungmans Sesor Mod and some other mods in this topic that deal with this problem, but a board search doesn't throw up any valid d/l links to check those out (and I hate to comment on something that I know nothing about) - is one of you chaps kind enough to share them with me?

[Alex]

The 16km version will arrive in some days!;)

http://www.crypticmadness.com/Forum/images/Smiles/party20.gif

:arrgh!: :p

[Rubini]

The 16km version will arrive in some days!;)

http://www.crypticmadness.com/Forum/images/Smiles/party20.gif

:arrgh!: :p

It's now definitively on the way.
I spent all my night time yesterday on the first series of adjusts.;)

[Maraz]

It's now definitively on the way.

Thanks!!! :up:

Maraz

EDIT: great, now I too look like Totò !!! :D
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0869451/

[HEMISENT]

The 16km version will arrive in some days!;)

http://www.crypticmadness.com/Forum/images/Smiles/party20.gif

:arrgh!: :p

It's now definitively on the way.
I spent all my night time yesterday on the first series of adjusts.;)

Hi Rubini
Just letting you know I'm sitting here waiting anxiously for this one. Cant wait for another example of your fine work to come out.

[bruschi sauro]

Update Released!
March 29, 2007
"Stay Alert - crew fix" mod for GWX and Stock game version 1.c
This is a 8km version only.
This version have the new fix for the visual airplanes detection.
================================================== ==================
Here the link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/23281282/Stay_Alert__crew_fix_v1c.7z.html

Notice that inside you have two versions:GWX and stock. Install only the correct one for your game after adjust the file structure.
JSGME ready after choose your version to use.
Please read the readme inside.

Any feedback is welcome!

Thanks mates!:up:

Rubini.




================================================== ======================
================================================== ======================
First post:
================================================== ======================

I'm working on a complete revision of the Visual and Hidrophone detection issue. These two are very important and at same time bugged conditions of the game.

================================================== =====================


The problems:

a) Visual detection
In stock Sh3 and mainly after 16km mod we have two main problems on the Visual detection, some of them continue present even in the big mods.

1.The more easily noticiable stock problem with Visual detection by player crew is that the player frequently can spot the ships far before the most skilled crew, sometimes so annoying that even with external camera you can see the smokes and the crew stay blind!
Some players could prefer this way, they then can then detect the ships before the crew...but sometimes the crew is so blind that the first thing that you will see is a warship firing at you! Needs fix!

2.The other, which appears or become worst after the 16km mod, is that the player crew frequently is blind at fog conditions. This appears because ppl tried to solve that vampire night vision - 16km mod related, also present in stock, just less noticiable- and to soften this problem they introduced a annoying side effect: blind crew at fog conditions.

Also frequently the big mods uses the same sensors files for both mods: 16km and 8km what makes the 8km blind crew even worst!

The vampire night crew don't have a good solution (is in truth a stock bug) and if you try to fix it you always will make the crew blind at fog at some level. So, whatever solution that we acquire for the first problem we will also make the vampire night vision a bit more noticiable again. This is why I will at first only work with 8km installations.

b)Hydrophone detection
Here we have 5 main problems. Anyway some of them are a bit more subjetive problems, so if somebody have others results/comments let me know.

1. The player can always detect ships far before the more skilled crew. Just make a full stop and you can listen a single small merchant at least 30km away. A skilled crew only will detect this same ship 17-20km away at best. The player ability to detect at 30km is hardcoded and can't be fixed. I tried to mess with the hydrophones on sensors.dat and also raising the ambient_hydrophone sound but no dice.

2. The crew only have ability to follow nearest contact order for contacts at 25km or less even after changing the settings for max distance on sensors.dat file or adjusting the sensors.cfg. Seems that this is also hardcoded or will mess with a lot of others things to fix it.

3. You only will see the ship identification on notepad on Hydrophone room after you are at least at less than 10km of a ship. Before this or is not possible to have a identification or you have a "unknow contact" on the notepad. Seems that this is also hardcoded or will mess with a lot of others things to fix it.

4. SH3 don't shows differences distances to detect a warship, a single merch or a convoy. However, in real life these are very different conditions like you can see below during WWII:

If a submarine speed was 4 knots, the submarine's underwater sound detector average distance of detecting another object was:
- for a destroyer- 5 to 10 nautical miles,
- for a cargo ship- 3.5 to 7.5 nautical miles,
- for a convoy- up to 50 nautical miles.

Uboat.net has a article regarding underwater sound detection here
http://uboat.net/articles/id/52

5. I also don't see any difference when tried to mess with the hydrophones settings on sensors.cfg for sea state. So the same detection distance for a calm day or for a 15m/s day is present.

Obviously the final detection distance is always a bit random (not always the exactly same valour) and the max distance is easily adjusted on sensors.dat files but with the limitations exposed above.

The proposal workaround:
(First of all don't forget that a skilled crew is always necessary)

For the visual problem
-make the crew and the player see the smokes/ships at the same time to have a better behaviour in TC...and I think that you don't want to sail far away with a dumb crew, no?
-stop with the blind crew at fog conditions.
-also make the max distance the major possible to improve realism.

For the Hidrophone problem
-Make the max range detection the same for crew and player.
-make the max crew distance detection a bit major (25km) to have a better middle ground between a single merch detection and a convoy. 25 km to avoid the follow nearest contact min distance bug.

Possible side effects/limitations/actual stage of the mod:

-The visual problem is already fixed and tested for the 3 main goals: crew and player see now the ships almost at same time and no more blind crew in fog conditions The max distance is now also better than before. But take in mind that the vampire nigt vision crew is present but not more than stock in 8km. Notice that these fix break partially the Long range Gunnery mod present on GWX. The LRG mod is not well fitted for Sh3 anyway as it is now on GWX and in truth have more side effects than good things IMHO. However the good things of LRG mod will yet stay intact.

-The player will continue to listen far before the crew on hydrophones. It's possible to make the crew listen at 30km (raising the max distances for hydrophones on sensors.dat) but this brakes the "follow nearest contact" order (after 25km) and is to much for single ships. So I will go with a middle ground without brake the "follow nearest contact" order. The player needs to avoid to cheat the game using the hydrophones unless when you are following a convoy which in RL could be listen even far way than the 30km present on SH3. The crew will now always listen at 20-25km anyway, what is far more useful.

Any idea/comment is welcome!
I intend to release the mod in few days.
i WANT TO ASK UBISOFT FOR MY MONEY BACK, SO I CAN GIVE IT TO WHO WORK ,
ALL MODDERS PUT MORE HEART AND SOUL INTO THIS WORK THAN UBI AND DEV TEAM:yep:

[Jimbuna]

Really looking forward to this mate :rock:

[Alex]

It's now definitively on the way.
I spent all my night time yesterday on the first series of adjusts.;)

Great, mate ! http://yelims5.free.fr/TopOuNul/Super13.gif
Can't wait to see this ! :D

[von Zelda]

Ok!
Open the Sensors.dat from the Stay Alert crew fix mod using TT tweak (you will need the sensors_dat.txt for TTtweak specifically for GWX - someone post it here at this forum some days ago).

Locate this line under "Visual":
Surface=60 and lower it (I suggest something between 40 to 20).

That is all. Don't forget to delete the copy that TT tweak put automatically on the library folder and you are ready to go. The planes will start to be detected (visually) far away now. Can be made middle patrol.

Please post comments later if you try it!;)

Rubini, do you plan to post an update of the sensor.dat file to detect aircraft at further distances than in your current Stay alert Crew mod for 8km?

[Rubini]

Ok!
Open the Sensors.dat from the Stay Alert crew fix mod using TT tweak (you will need the sensors_dat.txt for TTtweak specifically for GWX - someone post it here at this forum some days ago).

Locate this line under "Visual":
Surface=60 and lower it (I suggest something between 40 to 20).

That is all. Don't forget to delete the copy that TT tweak put automatically on the library folder and you are ready to go. The planes will start to be detected (visually) far away now. Can be made middle patrol.

Please post comments later if you try it!;)

Rubini, do you plan to post an update of the sensor.dat file to detect aircraft at further distances than in your current Stay alert Crew mod for 8km?

Hi von Zelda,

Well, like I said above the aircrafts are alreay detected early by the crew on Stay Alert mod than in GWX/stock game...but perhaps not yet enough to avoid them in some cases. Like exposed above it's easy to adjust them...but you could notice a side effect with small ships also being detected far away.

I'm working on 16km and I can say that is a pain in the ass, it's ten times more difficult to adjust than the 8km version (because it is already a tweak over stock game). I even guess that we will not have so good results in the end as we achieve with 8km version.
I will release the mod as a complete package with 8km and 16km and also with Ducimus AI_sensors (for 16km). I will also revise the 8km and perhaps a more tuned version for aircraft detection can appears.;)

[Wilcke]

As with all things in life a compromise is just fine! Looking forward to both 8k and 16k. I am now running two installs of GWX 1.03 side by side one with the current Stay Alert Mod and the other awaiting the 16k.

All systems go....well done Rubini!:up:

Wilcke

[Rubini]

As with all things in life a compromise is just fine! Looking forward to both 8k and 16k. I am now running two installs of GWX 1.03 side by side one with the current Stay Alert Mod and the other awaiting the 16k.

All systems go....well done Rubini!:up:

Wilcke
Yes ... a compromise is the main goal. After more insane tests...I will definitively left behind the LRG mod as it is on GWX also for 16km: it's really impossible to adjust your crew to see the enemy before they see (and engage) you in a lot of situations...I will go with a half Long Rnage Gunnery mod: If the world on SH3 is at 16km and the crew can't see nothing after this distance why the Ai will see far away?.
I will adjust all the sensors (player/crew and AI) to something near 16/18km and then I guess that a compromise will be acquired for 16km version too!;)

[Wilcke]

Makes sense to me!

Wilcke

[Rubini]

Hi mates,

After I work on this the last 5 days, 6 hours per day, during the night, without a good sleep time, I´m sad in say (as I guessed since the beginning...) that isn´t possible to have an alert crew for 16km mod without some annoying side effects.

...And I´m very stubborn with all work that I put my hands on...

The main problem is that old one for 16km: To have a good Alert crew we will also get a very noticiable vampire night vision, mainly in the clear unffoged nights. The result is that we will have almost the same crew visual detection distance for day and night.
Also the detection of differents units size like small ships and small planes are also a problem without good solution (balance) in 16km/alert crew matter.

However, I should like to say that the original GWX sensors/visual behaviour for 16km is already good: good detection at day and at night the enemy will almost never detect you first. Exception for small ships and small planes and when in heavy fog conditions. Ths is why the guys that uses 16km with GWX don´t have much problems with it (very different from GWX 8km situation indeed...)

So, that is all.
Sorry guys.
I´m very grateful for all you that put here encourage words to we try to fix this annoying problem. Special thanks to bert8for3 that help me with a very well made measurement work for the visual detection distances on 16km mod.
I was defeat by the Sensors' bugged SH3 engine...it´s a pity.:shifty:

Thanks to all!
Thanks to support and use the mods from this great community!
I will start now my retired time from SH3 mod work and finally play the game once for all!
And the Stay Alert crew fix for 8km is working very well!:know:
See you guys!

Rubini.

[Reece]

We thank you for all your time and patience put into this, I prefer the 8k mod & find it most excellent!:yep: I have altered the Surface=60 to 30 in the sensors.dat file, but typically haven't come accross aircraft yet!!:lol: I will post in your other thread when test results come back. Also have to update my thread on uber DD's, as I changed tactics & works well!
Cheers.:up:

[P_Funk]

You can't do a thing for even the hydrophone operator?:p

[Kpt. Lehmann]

You can't do a thing for even the hydrophone operator?:p

@P_Funk

The hydrophone works fine in GWX when using the 16 km mod and a qualified crewman.

I just ran another quick test that you can duplicate.

Open the single mission "Gibralter."

Select Type VIIC 1941

Go ahead slow.

Submerge to say 40 meters...

Use low (64x) time compression a bit if you like.

Select "normal sweep" for your hydrophone operator.

You will soon have a hydrophone contact to the north.

My crew detected it 24 km away. (This is well beyond visual range capability in SH3/GWX.

(DO NOT FORGET that the GHG hydrophone has a "dead zone" directly ahead!!! It is perfectly realistic for you to not to detect targets in this dead zone as it was a limitation of the GHG in RL.) There is also a dead-zone / cone of silence to the stern as well.

The KDB also had directional limitations that are also modelled correctly in GWX... However, since having to replace my PC... much of my info is difficult to find, having been bundled for backup. ATM I cannot be more specific.

[Samwolf]

Thanks for trying, Rubini. Your efforts are much appreciated.:up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Rubini is a tough cookie and a good man.:ping:

[Alex]

For sure :yep: !

I will start now my retired time from SH3 mod work and finally play the game once for all!
And the Stay Alert crew fix for 8km is working very well!:know:
See you guys!

Rubini.

I love the 8km version :D
Thanks anyway for trying to make the 16km real ! ;)

SINK 'EM ALL !!!!!! :rock::rock: :rock:

[bert8for3]

Having done a small bit of testing to give Rubini a hand, just let me raise my hat in thanks and in salute to him for all his efforts. He's put a huge amount of work into this; and it is meticulous, painstaking work. :up:

And let me raise my hat a second time in recognition of all modders. As a mod-user but basically having no knowledge of the process, I've imagined that there must be a lot of work involved, but doing this bit of testing has given me a better idea of just how extensive and detailed that work is. These guys are dedicated pros and my thanks to them all. :up:

[von Zelda]

I have altered the Surface=60 to 30 in the sensors.dat file, but typically haven't come accross aircraft yet!!:lol: I will post in your other thread when test results come back. Also have to update my thread on uber DD's, as I changed tactics & works well! Cheers.:up:

Rubini, can you post one extra file for us? That being an optional sensor.dat file changing the Surface=60 to Surface=30

Some of us (myself included) do not have your know-how and talent for changes these files. I think this one extra optional file might be a nice addition to your already GREAT, Alert Crew Fix.

[P_Funk]

My crew detected it 24 km away. (This is well beyond visual range capability in SH3/GWX.
Thats interesting since I'll routinely recognize merchant screws on the Hydrophone before my operator detects it. I'll hear it, then switch back to the Command Room, then ask for a contact and he says "No Sound Contact". One of them was rather easy to hear too. Although I was only at Periscope depth. Is there any merit to those people that say you should go down to 30 meters?