What is your expectations on SH4 ? #1 SH4 player

[Shipshape]

Hello all you subsimers out there.

So its time to get your hands on a new subsim, SH4; that, hopefully, will get you many sleepless nights trying to for filling yore missions. A good fought thou, but how is it working when installed on your hi tech spec PC? Well i got my SH4 Collectors Edition yesterday and was off course stund by the graphics, the eye candy. And thinking back to the first time i sat in front off a subsim back in 1984 playing GATO on a IBM XT with CGA graphics its a giant leap to start SH4. but bear in mind that this is a product that is developed by UBISOFT. Go back in time and re alive the time when SH2 and SH3 was released. SH2 got an obsolete graphic interface limited to 768*1024 and did not work properly until it was patch to 1.1 and then patch by enthusiasts several times. The same boring and teadius thing with SH3 that have version 1.4b to work properly. Well all you that bought a UBISOFT product know that there will be patches etc and that what you get out of the box wont work properly, which is the brutal trough about SH4. After more than 15 hours of just doing the basic missions i can find a number of bugs that indicates that you just might stick to the SH3 until SH4 is patch to a more proper functionality. For example:

• Sound bugs exploding that continuous after the ship is gone done under the surface.
• Pounding a merchant vessel by the deck gun with over 50 shells in very close proximity without the ship is blown to smiter ins.
• Or putting five (5) torpedos in a tanker that is semi submersibeld and it stills a float!!.
• Or just like that your diesel fuel is running out like if there is a gigantic hole in your ship, without any enemy ship in any range.
• Check out the “Default key command” leflet, they have forgot Heading to view and view to heading on the keyboard layout, a mishaps probably.
• The mission editor have, as usual no manual.

I will not complain any more about the bugs in SH4 but just start a debate about why we, the paying customers, time after time should get a nonfunctional product from UBISOFT. I´m sure that when SH4 is patched to version 1.4 or ma by 1.5 it will be a god simulator. As of to day it probably will result in frustration and flashbacks from the last time you bought a subsim branded by UBISOFT. And of course some of you under if I have the hardware and latest drivers and experience, yes I've been a PC user and subsimmer since 1986.

Best regards to you all out there.

Shipshape

[malkuth74]

What? Are you complaining about a Game that is not even out yet? Or are you just Predicting the future? That is one strange post, and i'm not even drinking yet.

[CCIP]

Alright, come again.

You got SHIV? :huh:

[CCIP]

And by the way, if you really do...



• Sound bugs exploding that continuous after the ship is gone done under the surface.
• Pounding a merchant vessel by the deck gun with over 50 shells in very close proximity without the ship is blown to smiter ins.
• Or putting five (5) torpedos in a tanker that is semi submersibeld and it stills a float!!.
• Or just like that your diesel fuel is running out like if there is a gigantic hole in your ship, without any enemy ship in any range.
• Check out the “Default key command” leflet, they have forgot Heading to view and view to heading on the keyboard layout, a mishaps probably.
• The mission editor have, as usual no manual.


None of those sound like bugs except MAYBE the diesel fuel one (I can't quite understand what you mean). For the rest - I think torpedo failures are finally implemented (phew!) and the deck gun is no longer 'uber' (phew again!). If you don't like it, I believe there's a realistic damage checkbox in the options...

The keys and manual sound like ommissions.

[Shipshape]

The game was releasd friday 070316 here in Sweden. And, yes, there is more bugs, no predictions.

[THE_MASK]

screen shots then please .

[CCIP]

:o

Well I'll be damned.

So far sounds like minor things though, but I'll qualify that, well, I've not yet seen it!

[fredbass]

Maybe someday he'll realize that PC games always have issues when released, no matter what the venue. It's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

And I find it hard to believe that a Subsim Newb would be the first to tell us about it, as well.

[ReallyDedPoet]

screen shots then please .

This would be nice:up:

[CCIP]

Maybe someday he'll realize that PC games always have issues when released, no matter what the venue. It's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately.
:yep:

Likewise, I don't mean to start an attack on the original poster - but when's the last time you bought a subsim NOT branded by Ubisoft? :hmm:

Please, do show some screenshots. Tell us about more bugs, we can discuss them (the ones you listed so far sound... far from game-killing, shall we say - if they're the worst of it, I think we're looking good!).

You may just be the first person on the biggest Subsim community to have the retail version, and we're dying to know more about it. But do prove it :hmm:

[THE_MASK]

Maybe a sticky thread needs to be started for listing of hardcoded bugs for Sh4 so that they might get fixed in a patch . No i dont have the game but some organisation would be nice instead of rambling on all over the forum , which is what will happen .

[THE_MASK]

Does SH4 support AA on your system ?

[Antrodemus]

screen shots then please .
This would be nice:up:

It would also serve as proof. ;) Right now, Shipshape, I find it hard to believe you'd take the time to write all that verging-on-codswallop you just did when you could be playing and grabbing screens from SH4...

Go on, prove me wrong.

...and please don't use a black font next time. I know, I can just highlight it, but it's an unnecessary pest.

[malkuth74]

Ya post some screens. Someone always likes to come to forums to say they have something (and have made very clever forgeries). But really don't.

And if you do have in, think the store in sweeden jumped the gun.

[THE_MASK]

I think i have been caught hook line and sinker so to speak !!!!!!!!!!!!

[rodan54]

Indeed, some proof that you actually have it would do quite nicely.

And, I have to agree that those "bugs" don't really sound like bugs to me.

• Sound bugs exploding that continuous after the ship is gone done under the surface.
I do believe this is realistic, and is also in SHIII.
• Pounding a merchant vessel by the deck gun with over 50 shells in very close proximity without the ship is blown to smiter ins.
Doesn't sound like a problem to me. I already deal with this on a daily basis in GWX.
• Or putting five (5) torpedos in a tanker that is semi submersibeld and it stills a float!!.
Se above comment.
• Or just like that your diesel fuel is running out like if there is a gigantic hole in your ship, without any enemy ship in any range.
This may be a bug, but I'll hold off until wednseday to pass judgment.
• Check out the “Default key command” leflet, they have forgot Heading to view and view to heading on the keyboard layout, a mishaps probably.
Not exactly an ingame issue/bug.
• The mission editor have, as usual no manual.
If it's anything like SHIII's editor, then I don't see this as that big of an issue.

[Gizzmoe]

Maybe a sticky thread needs to be started for listing of hardcoded bugs for Sh4 so that they might get fixed in a patch .
I had already planned on doing that, but I didn´t know that the game is already out in some countries... :hmm:

[Takeda Shingen]

And so it begins.

hands Gizz the fire extinguisher

[Gizzmoe]

And so it begins.

hands Gizz the fire extinguisher
I´ll probably need more like two f-ing fire departments... <sigh> :lol:

[Arrowhead2k1]

I'm going to assume he's pulling our legs until he presents proof. You can't just come here and basically say you're the only one on the forum who has SH4 and not offer any proof/serious details. Come on...

Tell me, does anti-aliasing work or not?

[Subnuts]

There's nothing really absurd about a merchant ship taking 50 shells and surviving. Unless you aim for the waterline, all you'll do is punch holes in the superstructure. And sinking a tanker in ballast can be ridiculously hard. There were a few instances of Japanese tankers taking five or six torpedoes and remaining afloat and in towable condition.

[Shipshape]

Can somebody tell me how to insert a picture!!

[Antrodemus]

Upload your image(s) to a free hosting site, then use the "insert image" function when you go to make your post. I don't personally know of any sites, since I tend to use my own webspace... but I'm sure someone here will help you.

[OneTinSoldier]

First, about the Deckgun. I think the Deckgun should be somewhat effective. I like GWX's Deckgun. It's pretty accurate if the sea state is very calm. When the sea is rocking your boat somewhat it's accuracy is compromised and you need to get closer. But when you make a hit, it's pretty powerful. I have taken down 7000 tonners with just several shots(5 to 7) when hitting them below the waterline. If I do not hit below the waterline then it can take quite a few more shots, depending on the size of the ship. BUT, it does not take 50 shots with the Deckgun in GWX in my experience. And although I personally think 50 shots to take down a ship sounds a little weak, the good news is that should be moddable. Something to keep in mind is that they could have developed the game in such a way that it is pretty much all closed off and very difficult to mod. But fortunately they seem to make the sim with modding somewhat in mind. A good decision I think, don't you?




I will not complain any more about the bugs in SH4 but just start a debate about why we, the paying customers, time after time should get a nonfunctional product from UBISOFT. I´m sure that when SH4 is patched to version 1.4 or ma by 1.5 it will be a god simulator. As of to day it probably will result in frustration and flashbacks from the last time you bought a subsim branded by UBISOFT. And of course some of you under if I have the hardware and latest drivers and experience, yes I've been a PC user and subsimmer since 1986.

Best regards to you all out there.

Shipshape


As a few folks have already responded, bugs can be expected. It sucks, but as Neal Stevens stated, patches can be expected for nearly all games since the 1993 to 1997 neighborhood. With that as a given, whether a person considers a product to be 'nonfunctional' becomes a matter of personal opinion. For instance, one reason I might consider it to be nonfunctional is if it kept Crashing To Desktop every so often. Where I would draw that line might be hard for me to make though. CTD every 6 hours? 3 hours? 1 hour? For you, the items listed above may be enough for you to consider it to be nonfunctional. But that is your opinion and whether others think the same is naturally up to them, as replies are showing. The good news is, if the past the is any indication we can expect the product to recieve some support in the way of fixes with patches. If I do not receive support then that is when I stop giving my support.


Shipshape, your post pretty much states what was already expected, an imperfect product on release. How imperfect until it's considered nonfuctional is a matter of personal opinion. As far as I'm concerned I don't really see anything listed to where I would consider it as nonfunctional, unusable, or what have you. But that's just my opinion.

Regards

[rodan54]

Here, use imageshack.

http://www.imageshack.us/

[Shipshape]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9208/subsimoe4.jpgThanks for the professionall help. First things first, having SH4 or not;)

[Buggins]

Edit: I take it back, he's got manuals and stuff.

Double edit : Dude, probably a good idea to edit out your CD Key from that picture.

When playing today (at the Ubi preview) I noticed the sound problem, although not during campaign mode. I never had any of the other issues though.

[Antrodemus]

Yeeesh!!!

Allow me to be the first (edit - 2nd) to go munch a large chunk of humble-pie... :oops:

Sorry for doubting you.



(psssst - you may want to reduce the size of the image a little. ;))

[mookiemookie]

Well I'll be darned.

P.S. you might want to blur out or otherwise cover up your registration key (if that's what that is on the manual)

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107766Hello all you subsimers out there.

So its time to get your hands on a new subsim, SH4; that, hopefully, will get you many sleepless nights trying to for filling yore missions. A good fought thou, but how is it working when installed on your hi tech spec PC? Well i got my SH4 Collectors Edition yesterday and was off course stund by the graphics, the eye candy. And thinking back to the first time i sat in front off a subsim back in 1984 playing GATO on a IBM XT with CGA graphics its a giant leap to start SH4. but bear in mind that this is a product that is developed by UBISOFT. Go back in time and re alive the time when SH2 and SH3 was released. SH2 got an obsolete graphic interface limited to 768*1024 and did not work properly until it was patch to 1.1 and then patch by enthusiasts several times. The same boring and teadius thing with SH3 that have version 1.4b to work properly. Well all you that bought a UBISOFT product know that there will be patches etc and that what you get out of the box wont work properly, which is the brutal trough about SH4.
I will not complain any more about the bugs in SH4 but just start a debate about why we, the paying customers, time after time should get a nonfunctional product from UBISOFT. I´m sure that when SH4 is patched to version 1.4 or ma by 1.5 it will be a god simulator. As of to day it probably will result in frustration and flashbacks from the last time you bought a subsim branded by UBISOFT. And of course some of you under if I have the hardware and latest drivers and experience, yes I've been a PC user and subsimmer since 1986.

Shipshape

Shipshape, I don't think patches are limited to SH4 or Ubisoft. Every game I have bought since and including Aces of the Deep has gotten things fixed with patches. I know, and many of you also know, with all games, the publisher sets a deadline and the devs have to meet it. Sometimes the deadline is pushed back, as was the case with SH3. There are never cases where the devs of a game finish early and play pool the last three weeks before the deadline :lol: And it's business as usual for the game to be sent to replication and then the devs keep right on working to finish, improve, and polish it, resulting in a patch on release day.

I won't suggest players ignore legitimate glitches with the game and I think as long as people appear relatively calm in their discussions, they should express their feelings. Post your findings in the bug thread, (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107766) the devs read it.

[Shipshape]

Thank you for notifiing me off the serial number:oops: Ill post game pictures later, its 00.40 and i have a mission, some japanese DD etc to en****er! :D

[Antrodemus]

Shipshape, I hope you can answer this before you delve back into the sim, but, where did you get it? Amazon? UBI? Subsim? Store-shelf? I'm just trying to gauge when to expect it here in the UK. Thanks in advance...

[OneTinSoldier]

Ill post game pictures later, its 00.40 and i have a mission, some japanese DD etc to en****er! :D

I find it interesting that he wants to go back to playing his 'nonfunctional' sim. :hmm:

:lol:

[fullmetaledges]

Ill post game pictures later, its 00.40 and i have a mission, some japanese DD etc to en****er! :D

I find it interesting that he wants to go back to playing his 'nonfunctional' sim. :hmm:

:lol:

I find it interesting that they moved the US release date to the 20th to make it more fair for the rest of the world yet sweeden gets it the 16th. Just a thought.

[Elder-Pirate]

Ill post game pictures later, its 00.40 and i have a mission, some japanese DD etc to en****er! :D

I find it interesting that he wants to go back to playing his 'nonfunctional' sim. :hmm:

:lol:


With the money he has invested in that "Collectors Edition" I don't blame him for jumping back in, buggy or not. ;)


NUTS, Wed 3/21/07 just isn't getting here fast enough, I'll just sit here in my rocker and twiddle my thumbs for a few more days.:cry: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/LETTER11.gifAnd anyone who comes near my SHIV then will get buckshot. :arrgh!:

[CCIP]

Haha, well, congrats, you're hereby declared "The First One" :p

(that is, the first on the Subsim to get the retail SHIV in their hands [Neal and the beta testers don't count, theirs isn't retail])

And ah, nothing surprising with going back to it despite the bugs. I saw bugs in SHIII from day 1, and I'm long past day 600 with that game and have been loving it just as much all along :)

[malkuth74]

It always ticks me off when A store releases it early. Now I think they should release it everywhere for its fair.:rock:

And does this mean that most the places might already have the game (my god if sweeden got it then they must all have them) and it will be on store shelves Tuesday instead of Wends.

[marky]

my expectations are that upon getting it, i will do the following...

grab food and sodas, make beeline to room

play SH4 for the next 48 hours:rotfl::arrgh!::ping::up::yep::D

[Krupp]

• Or putting five (5) torpedos in a tanker that is semi submersibeld and it stills a float!!.

Well, US Mk XIV torpedoes had "only" 500lbs warhead, (if it eventually even detonated) so it din't have too much punch. Example, in October 1943, two US sub's put 20 torpedoes into the 10 000 GRT jap-tanker before she sank. So knowing this, it doesen't bother me if I have to use eel after eel to be able to sink something for the war effort.

Anyways, "Hit'em Harder"

[Ark]

Ill post game pictures later, its 00.40 and i have a mission, some japanese DD etc to en****er! :D

I find it interesting that he wants to go back to playing his 'nonfunctional' sim. :hmm:

:lol:

I find it interesting that they moved the US release date to the 20th to make it more fair for the rest of the world yet sweeden gets it the 16th. Just a thought.



An American Subsim that is released in Sweden first, and also has two contests going for a chance to check it out before release in the U.K. and Romania.

Ubisoft, bass-ackwards much?

Good times. LOL

Edit: Now that other people seem to be installing their copies, I just have to ask (since I lack videogame-self-control), who is the dumbass who planned this "world release" and then managed to bork it?

I have NO problem waiting until the 20th to recieve my copy. However, I DO take issue with paying Overnight Shipping for a product and then noticing that apparently everybody else is getting their copies whiile mine has failed to ship....even though I paid for the most expensive shipping option (which still wasn't much, but it's the principle behind it).

I just have to ask; Did the Ubisoft management take business classes via turn-based email? :P

[clayton]

Well, I'm a soldier and twenty bucks for overnight shipping is twenty bucks!!! I'm upset too...

[Faamecanic]

Double post....please delete this one.... sorry.

[Faamecanic]

Shipshape, I don't think patches are limited to SH4 or Ubisoft. Every game I have bought since and including Aces of the Deep has gotten things fixed with patches. I know, and many of you also know, with all games, the publisher sets a deadline and the devs have to meet it. Sometimes the deadline is pushed back, as was the case with SH3. There are never cases where the devs of a game finish early and play pool the last three weeks before the deadline :lol: And it's business as usual for the game to be sent to replication and then the devs keep right on working to finish, improve, and polish it, resulting in a patch on release day.

I won't suggest players ignore legitimate glitches with the game and I think as long as people appear relatively calm in their discussions, they should express their feelings. Post your findings in the bug thread, (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107766) the devs read it.

Neal and others.....

Not that Im trying to flame here... but I think the reason more and more games are shipping these days half finished is because we ACCEPT the fact that its "ok as long as they patch". And this applies to more than just UBISOFT. EASports is HORRIBLE for releasing half finished games (ie bugs that have carried over through 2 or 3 Madden years, NFL Head coach...)

I can honestly say that if it wasnt for all the EXCELENT modders here...SH3 would have died a quick death on my HDD due to Ubi never FIXING what was blatantly broke in SH3, even after patch 1.4b. I got bored after my first patrol, and disgusted when my Type XXI that I saved up for turned out to be a piece of junk (battery bug, sonar bug...to name two). If it wasnt for GWX re-igniting my passion for SH3...I would have never played past 1 patrol (again THANKS GWX guys...you ROCK)

Now with that said...I sure hope SH4 dosent have a bug fest from day one. Because if we dont buy SH4...what other new subsim is there? Will I buy SH4...of course.... only because the fun factor outweighs the bugs, at least for now.

[CCIP]

Shipshape - sorry about the suspicions before and I again wish ya all the best with the new game - hope we all get it soon!

Please post screenies if you can! There's a nice tutorial for making/posting screens in the SHIII forum if you aren't sure how:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107399

Funny how for once, being first doesn't warrant a prize - it's a much bigger prize in itself :p

[Onkel Neal]

Shipshape, I don't think patches are limited to SH4 or Ubisoft. Every game I have bought since and including Aces of the Deep has gotten things fixed with patches. I know, and many of you also know, with all games, the publisher sets a deadline and the devs have to meet it. Sometimes the deadline is pushed back, as was the case with SH3. There are never cases where the devs of a game finish early and play pool the last three weeks before the deadline :lol: And it's business as usual for the game to be sent to replication and then the devs keep right on working to finish, improve, and polish it, resulting in a patch on release day.

I won't suggest players ignore legitimate glitches with the game and I think as long as people appear relatively calm in their discussions, they should express their feelings. Post your findings in the bug thread, (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107766) the devs read it.

Neal and others.....

Not that Im trying to flame here... but I think the reason more and more games are shipping these days half finished is because we ACCEPT the fact that its "ok as long as they patch". And this applies to more than just UBISOFT. EASports is HORRIBLE for releasing half finished games (ie bugs that have carried over through 2 or 3 Madden years, NFL Head coach...)

I can honestly say that if it wasnt for all the EXCELENT modders here...SH3 would have died a quick death on my HDD due to Ubi never FIXING what was blatantly broke in SH3, even after patch 1.4b. I got bored after my first patrol, and disgusted when my Type XXI that I saved up for turned out to be a piece of junk (battery bug, sonar bug...to name two). If it wasnt for GWX re-igniting my passion for SH3...I would have never played past 1 patrol (again THANKS GWX guys...you ROCK)

Now with that said...I sure hope SH4 dosent have a bug fest from day one. Because if we dont buy SH4...what other new subsim is there? Will I buy SH4...of course.... only because the fun factor outweighs the bugs, at least for now.

I hear you, but it's been said many, many times. I don't know how it's going to change. When will we stop accepting it? I don't know.

[nvdrifter]

Shipshape, I don't think patches are limited to SH4 or Ubisoft. Every game I have bought since and including Aces of the Deep has gotten things fixed with patches. I know, and many of you also know, with all games, the publisher sets a deadline and the devs have to meet it. Sometimes the deadline is pushed back, as was the case with SH3. There are never cases where the devs of a game finish early and play pool the last three weeks before the deadline :lol: And it's business as usual for the game to be sent to replication and then the devs keep right on working to finish, improve, and polish it, resulting in a patch on release day.

I won't suggest players ignore legitimate glitches with the game and I think as long as people appear relatively calm in their discussions, they should express their feelings. Post your findings in the bug thread, (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107766) the devs read it.
Neal and others.....

Not that Im trying to flame here... but I think the reason more and more games are shipping these days half finished is because we ACCEPT the fact that its "ok as long as they patch". And this applies to more than just UBISOFT. EASports is HORRIBLE for releasing half finished games (ie bugs that have carried over through 2 or 3 Madden years, NFL Head coach...)

I can honestly say that if it wasnt for all the EXCELENT modders here...SH3 would have died a quick death on my HDD due to Ubi never FIXING what was blatantly broke in SH3, even after patch 1.4b. I got bored after my first patrol, and disgusted when my Type XXI that I saved up for turned out to be a piece of junk (battery bug, sonar bug...to name two). If it wasnt for GWX re-igniting my passion for SH3...I would have never played past 1 patrol (again THANKS GWX guys...you ROCK)

Now with that said...I sure hope SH4 dosent have a bug fest from day one. Because if we dont buy SH4...what other new subsim is there? Will I buy SH4...of course.... only because the fun factor outweighs the bugs, at least for now.
I have to agree with Faamecanic. PC games these days are being released buggier and more unfinished than ever, with promises to fix them later, because most players will buy the games no matter what. There is one group in this forum that says we are lucky to get any SH4 at all. I partially agree with this thinking. But, I cannot totally agree, because if the publishers of SH4 know that players will buy SH4 no matter how buggy it's released, then that only encourages them to release more and more buggy games later. There should be limits to what we as the paying customers will put up with regarding the purchase unfinished, buggy games. If we buy buggy, half-finished games and tell everyone else to do the same, then it only encourages and rewards the game publishers to release more and more broken, unfinished games. I'm sure that the SH4 development team cares deeply about releasing the best, bug free SH4 that they could. But it's probably the bean counters at Ubisoft publishing that forces an early, unfinished release of their games. Whatever happens with SH4, let's not blame the developers. With all that being said, if they release the SDK's for SH3 and SH4, I have no problems with these two games being unfinished or buggy.

[geetrue]

Whatever happens with SH4, let's not blame the developers. With all that being said, if they release the SDK's for SH3 and SH4, I have no problems with these two games being unfinished or buggy.

They owe us that much ... SDK would be a welcome site ...
the numbers game is hard to understand for those who love
the sub sim experience.

Have merci' Ubi ... did more people buy Swat III and Generals Zero Hour,
because Sierra and EA released the SDK for those games?

It does not hurt game sales for modders to get hold of something they love ...

It increases sales ... :yep:

[GSpector]

Publishers of PC Software have the biggest advantage over Console games. Your Hard Drive and possibly your modem.

It is an accepted practice (though not by us) in the industry to release a game good enough to at least play knowing that it can be updated at a later date.

Now if the game is buggy but has a huge following like SH3, a patch will be released, If not, don't hold your breath because it will not be worth their time & money to patch software that no one plays or complains about despite the sales. If there are bugs, let them know you have an interest in the game/Sim and if enough people show a real interest, a patch will come out.

Console games can not be patched so when they go Gold, they are as good as Gold because they have to be perfect even if it's a bad game, it will play without bugs.

What else can be said, Good or bad, the industry exploits the advantage of update-able software.

[Ark]

Console games can not be patched so when they go Gold, they are as good as Gold because they have to be perfect even if it's a bad game, it will play without bugs.

There are patches for XBOX 360 games released all the time online. There were patches for some of the original XBOX games as well.:)

In fact, R6:Vegas on the 360 just had a patch not that long ago. ;)

[RedTerex]

I think its the marketing dept that places its 'strict time directives' that constantly push the Devs to have 'oversights' in the game, Marketing Depts and their budgets rule, Salesmen on commissions follow and Devs try to reach the goal posts as they move further away.

I just accept bugs now as part and parcel of the package, Its always the case now of hoping that the bugs are slight and dont spoil gameplay..too much and how quick it can be patched.

[GSpector]

Then I stand almost corrected since I take it XBox 360's have a Modem in them. I did after all state that a Modem was one of the advantages that the industry tries to exploit ;) and M$ built an exploitable console :roll:

And I know that M$ seems to be working very hard to merge the two platforms.

[Ark]

I always hear people talk about wishing the Devs could spend more time with games so they are as close to "perfect" as possible, but I don't think many quite understand exactly how much time that could add.

Take a look at some of the development teams that do all their development and production in-house and it quickly becomes evident that "a little extra time", is hardly "little" at all. ED (Eagle Dynamics) case in point. They are currently working on an expansion for Lock On: Modern Air Combat called Lock On: Black Shark. ED is doing all of their development/production in-house and does not abide by any time-constraints. The expansion was originally set to be released in March. March 2006. They have decided to spend "a little extra time" to work out any kinks and add some new features here and there......now the suspected release date is "Hopefully 2007".

I don't know about all of you, but sure I would love games that needed as few patches as possible.....but at the expense of waiting possibly 2 extra years? No thanks.

[Ark]

Then I stand almost corrected since I take it XBox 360's have a Modem in them. I did after all state that a Modem was one of the advantages that the industry tries to exploit ;) and M$ built an exploitable console :roll:

And I know that M$ seems to be working very hard to merge the two platforms.

Sony's console has online capabilites as does Nintendo's. So did the original XBOX as well as the Sony PS2. One of the biggest complaints about the PS2 by many people was it's limited amount of online gaming. It's hardly just a MS thing. It's not like MS is "the big bad wolf out to get us". The money is in online gaming.

MS is a business just like all others, and they, like all others, need revenue to function. ;)

[Shipshape]

Hello again!!

The intention with the tread I started was not to dismiss the new Silent Hunter 4. My intention was to start a debate about the fact that without you all competent users out there who make modds on freeware basis to the SH4 and are experiencend players will be disappointed. Would you buy a car or a 42” flat screen tv knowing that it will not work as intended? How about if your new car suddenly “died” when you used the AC and opened a window at the same time. Or your new flat screen functionality depended on the fact that you could get local support, on freeware basis adjusting it to its intended functionality. The software industry has made us used to the fact that there will be upgrades to make the thing work. Just look at Windows who every month launches security and other uppdates. What have all this to do with SH4 then?

Well I, just as the rest of the subsim community, was looking forward to the new subsim. But when you see all the eunthusiasm in the treads I can’t help thinking back on the history from earlier releases. Imagine that all the competent modders who mostly on freeware basis makes the simulation experience as god as it gets, and it will be very good in SH4, would stop. That they for some reason decided that they wouldn't share theire experiences and work. What would that result in? The real heroes of the software industry is this people, eunthusiasts, who we all depend on. And what is anoying is that the corporate management on UBISOFT etc know this and then let us, the users make the product work. The user has suddenly become the quality-, support-, and developmentdepartment. Without costs for the software development company.

SH4 is, and will be, a great simulator experience thanks to the subsim community. And I´am very glad that the subsim community works as well as it does, and of course an extra thanks to all of you at subsim.com who makes room for me too write this. The problem is do UBISOFT management recognize and contribute to those who make it work, e.g. subsim community etc? Reading youre posts make me think that short term financial reports is more important than deliver what they promised.

In the future, may bee its time to SH5!, and on the Webb you can read, “We will on the 16 of march start selling a brand new subsim that will be a very good simulation experience. In 5 to 6 months after release, when you the user without any cost for us, has finished for us.” What kind of market success would that bee?

I´am a big fan of simulators, it can bee Flight-, Ship-, Sub- or Trainsim, and the software industry all behave at the same way, depending on that there is a community that make it work. Hove long shall we accept this kind of business model? We wouldn't accept it when buying other things, a DVD-player, a book, a.... etc. Until we can influence the software industry we can find trust in the community, so keep up the good work all you modders out there.

Best regards Shipshape.

P.S:
The SH4 outdates earlier subsim,s :up: and is worth waiting for.:sunny:

[Payoff]

We get it. Now more screenshots please.

[OneTinSoldier]

Hello Shipshape,

Thanks for your posts. I still have to argue with some of your points though. As Neal said...


I hear you, but it's been said many, many times. I don't know how it's going to change. When will we stop accepting it? I don't know.


You have to compare apples to apples. A Car, a Toaster, a TV, ect. is NOT Software.

Not only that, if my car was under warranty and it died when I turned on the AC, I would take it in and expect it to be fixed, at no charge to me. And those type of things happen with cars too. This might be hard to believe and be news to you, but cars aren't produced perfectly either! Same for toasters and tv's. If I get home with my new purchase and find it's defective, I take it back and exchange it for a new one, or I get a refund and get my money back. Has everyting you've ever bought been perfect or or something? You've never had any problem with any product you've purchased other than software? :hmm: Did you purchase SHIV thinking it would be perfect and bug free?

It comes down to individuals. An individual must decide whether he is fed up with defective products from a company enough to where he will no longer purchase from that company. If the company has left a bad taste in enough people's mouths, then it may add up to enough people that stop buying from that company to put them out of bussiness. That's what it boils down to. Tired of buggy software? Stop buying it! You send a message to companies with... your wallet. If you did not believe that SHIV would be perfect when it was released, and you wanted it to be perfect but bought it anyway, you just sent them a message that it's ok for them to sell(release) imperfect software.

As I said earlier I expect support from software companies. When I stop getting support in the way of fixes with patches then I will no longer support(purchase from) them.



As for your point about folks who fix stuff on a freeware basis your point is well taken. There were some broken items in SHIII that were fixed by guys and released them as free mods. Things that should have been fixed by the Ubi/Dev team. THAT is the type of thing that gives me pause and makes me wonder... should I be purchasing SHIV? :hmm:

Regards

[Faamecanic]

I think its the marketing dept that places its 'strict time directives' that constantly push the Devs to have 'oversights' in the game, Marketing Depts and their budgets rule, Salesmen on commissions follow and Devs try to reach the goal posts as they move further away.

I just accept bugs now as part and parcel of the package, Its always the case now of hoping that the bugs are slight and dont spoil gameplay..too much and how quick it can be patched.

First..Im glad to see my comment was not taken as a flame... thanks guys.

Second...BINGO Red.... its like two opposite agendas. The Devs love what they do and want the bells and whistles in the game because its a challenge to them. Time tables set by the publishing company restrict that. Its a double edged sword.

I do not blame the devs for SH3 bugs and any possible SH4.... but I do feel the publishing company should allow the devs to at least fix what is wrong after release. But I do understand the publishers are limited by that allmighty bottom line.

[PAW]

Lol, fire extinguishers on stand-by please indeed. :lol:

This forum has done nothing but berate this poor fellow and dismiss him as a fake, up until you practically forced him to post his game box and registration key.
If I was him, I wouldn't post a single picture for any of you.

If I were to have download the game illegally (and before you also launch off at me, I've got mine on pre-order and am waiting very impatiently for the 23rd) I would have been happy to have released some shots, but if all i would get is a telling off from the jealous people here and then kicked from the forum, i think i'd be better off just staying quiet about it.

Am most displeased with the negativity flying around at the moment when we should all be rejoicing that the time IS finally here. :nope:


To continue the debate however...
(and this has been adressed many times before so I think i'm just re-itterating the info)

The games developers for the majority of games DO spend alot of time testing and ironing out bugs.

However, because THEY created the game, THEY know how it should be played. They won't play it like the thousands (hopefully millions) of people who will buy it later and so they will miss several bugs. The Beta testers are supposed to help them with getting rid of bugs that they might not have spotted, however, these (and i appreciate that it is also hard work) lucky people are but a handful in number and not enough to get all of the bugs covered. Any bugs they do find then have to be fixed. These fixes can cause new bugs.

The only real way to get all the bugs ironed out IS to release the game to the paying public and await their response.
It is unfortunate that this occurs. Perhaps they could make a BOT to control the sub and log when faults occur, but again, these are coded by the dev team and so would only perform a few of the routines that they had thought of. What the dev team and publisher CAN do is make sure that patches are frequent and any major bugs that are released are stamped out as soon as possible so that those who pay full price for the game can get what they actually paid for, rather than waiting for the game price to drop and getting it with the majority of bugs already sorted.

I am hoping that the ARMA (armed assault) community will continue to be supported for some time. I mean, you should have seen the state of that game when it was first released. It was laugable. From what you have described to me, your list of bugs indicates that SH4 is already a FAR more finished product than ARMA and ARMA has been released for quite some time.

I bid you happy sailing and good luck shipshape. You're going to need it until more of us can get out in the pacific with you.

[Gizzmoe]

This forum has done nothing but berate this poor fellow and dismiss him as a fake, up until you practically forced him to post his game box and registration key.
If I was him, I wouldn't post a single picture for any of you.
Well, no-one here knew at first that SH4 would be released sooner than the 21st or 23nd in some countries, so the reaction here wasn´t surprising...

[Antrodemus]

Ah, c'mon PAW... we did hold our hands-up and admit we were wrong, and nothing could be more galling than seeing someone (not in this case though) who's pirated the game, rubbing our noses in it when we might not see it for another week yet. People can get real tetchy around release-time for a game that's been hotly anticipated for years.

[fredbass]

Well until I see more posts about whats happening in game, I'll continue to have my doubts about the thread starters comments. It does appear that the agenda isn't SH4.

So prove me wrong. Let's see some substance please and then maybe I'll have a change of heart.

Thanks.

[PAW]

Ah, c'mon PAW... we did hold our hands-up and admit we were wrong, and nothing could be more galling than seeing someone (not in this case though) who's pirated the game, rubbing our noses in it when we might not see it for another week yet. People can get real tetchy around release-time for a game that's been hotly anticipated for years.

Guess I got a bit tetchy aswell :p

[Antrodemus]

Hehee... no worries, most of us are up to high "doh" right now. :up:

[jeff lackey]

There are a couple of problems, though, with the current practice of releasing games with known problems. SH4 is being released with "known functionality problems" - that is in the readme for reviewers that is with the review copy. They state that they know there are functionality problems, but that they will be addressed in a patch in the future.

So - first of all, there will be problems you don't catch, so please fix the problems before release rather than release and fix later. The second issue: reviews will be based on the released version. Yeah, the hard core simmers will buy it no matter what the problems, but to get the sales numbers you really want you want to get the casual gamers, the "browsing Best Buy" gamers, and if they read reviews where the game is a "70%" because of bugs and functionality issues they are likely to pass. If the version reviewed got, say, an 85% because they waited a couple of weeks to patch the known issues, they have a much better chance of getting more sales from casual gamers.

Those issues probably don't matter to hard core simmers such as the folks who live here, so FWIW.

[9th_cow]

Publishers of PC Software have the biggest advantage over Console games. Your Hard Drive and possibly your modem.

It is an accepted practice (though not by us) in the industry to release a game good enough to at least play knowing that it can be updated at a later date.

Now if the game is buggy but has a huge following like SH3, a patch will be released, If not, don't hold your breath because it will not be worth their time & money to patch software that no one plays or complains about despite the sales. If there are bugs, let them know you have an interest in the game/Sim and if enough people show a real interest, a patch will come out.

Console games can not be patched so when they go Gold, they are as good as Gold because they have to be perfect even if it's a bad game, it will play without bugs.

What else can be said, Good or bad, the industry exploits the advantage of update-able software.


i get patches for my Xbox 360 too. to be honest UBI are very reliable. other than some funny stuff that happens its in no need of a patch anyways. dive bombing B-24 anyone ? :)

just for the record, console games do get patched frequently now, in the past they were simply released broken. with no hope of a fix.
hell even sensible world of soccer got a patch this is nowt new.
and like i said UBI are pretty damned impressive, the minor flaws that need fixing get fixed, other publishers arent quite as good.

try shops like Shopto.net who ship the second they get a game instock, and dont wait for release days, be warned, if you buy a console game of them it wont be tradable in england ( they are PAL and work fine but are EU copys, english shops only accept games specifically meant for the UK so our beloved government can continue to charge us way over the odds for everything.)

[fastfed]

I love how all of you for the past months always said " I rather not get the game,until its finished, I am glad they are pushing the game back, I am so happy UBI didn't release the game until its finished "

I just sat back and laughed because every time a new SH comes out you all defend it like you produced it..

Yet, once again the game is released UNFISHED!

I am still excited about getting it, but I knew it was going to turn up the way it did.

[Antrodemus]

Yet, once again the game is released UNFISHED!

:rotfl:

I can see the headlines now...

"Top submarine simulator released to its eager public, WITHOUT TORPEDOES!!!"

[AJ!]

I love how all of you for the past months always said " I rather not get the game,until its finished, I am glad they are pushing the game back, I am so happy UBI didn't release the game until its finished "

I just sat back and laughed because every time a new SH comes out you all defend it like you produced it..

Yet, once again the game is released UNFISHED!

I am still excited about getting it, but I knew it was going to turn up the way it did.

lol aint that the truth

I just hope SH4 will be a damn fun and realistic game..... I see the game as another Sub sim to whet my appetite in the fascinating invention that is the submarine :D

[ReM]

If SH IV brings me half the fun I had (and still have.....I patrolled grid AL 69 earlier this evening!) with SH III it will be worth every penny.....

It is a good thing that there is a great modding community present here.....look what they made of the original SH III with the Grey Wolves expansion....in time SH IV will be made into someting like this as well.....

OK it isn't perfect now...sadly neither am I...

[OneTinSoldier]

Yet, once again the game is released UNFISHED!


Yeah, the subs come UNFISHED?? They have no FISH onboard!?!? Man, in that case I would defintely say the game is UNFINISHED. :lol:

[GSpector]

Yet, once again the game is released UNFISHED!

:rotfl:

I can see the headlines now...

"Top submarine simulator released to its eager public, WITHOUT TORPEDOES!!!"

Thanks for the flashback to the Maiden Voyage of the Enterprise NCC-1701-B when during a shake-down cruise around our Solar System the Enterprise is called upon for a rescue mission: :rotfl:


Just out side the Nexus, the Captain of 1701-B asked Kirk for help and Kirk give suggestions then they exchange words like:

Kirk to Captain: "What do you mean we have no Tractor beams."

Captain: "Won't be installed until Tuesday"

Kirk: "What about Photon Torpedoes?, Tuesday?"

Captain (looking down): ":( No, Thursday"
Poorly quited from Star Trek: Generations.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: