Zig Zag

[robj250]

Howdy.

I have been pestered by aircraft constantly.

Is there a mod that can be installed for SH3 and GWX that will automatically make the sub zig-zag when fighting off aircraft?

It is a terrible job trying to cancel all one's waypoints in oder to make a zig-zag pattern.

Rob

[Sailor Steve]

Do what they really did...DIVE!!!

And no, you can't make the boat zig-zag automatically; but you can just put the rudder over and go in circles. It works about the same, which is not so well.

[robj250]

Do what they really did...DIVE!!!

And no, you can't make the boat zig-zag automatically; but you can just put the rudder over and go in circles. It works about the same, which is not so well.

That takes all the fun out of it. :cry:

But I will try the rudder thingy.

Rob

[Mush Martin]

Howdy.

I have been pestered by aircraft constantly.

Is there a mod that can be installed for SH3 and GWX that will automatically make the sub zig-zag when fighting off aircraft?

It is a terrible job trying to cancel all one's waypoints in oder to make a zig-zag pattern.

Rob

No there is no auto zig zag but I have some advice on it if you do choose
to stay on the surface.

it is really a matter of rythm I as part of Uberboot mod development
end up doing a lot of surface approaches under air attack.

pick your course and aim yourself at it.
then switch your compass dial over to rudder control
in order not to lose speed in the turns only use small increments
of rudder betweeen say 10 and 24 degrees not hard over or you
lose speed to much.

basically to zig zag and have your own hands do it without using
up your concentration its a rythm thing

your orders take a little time to execute so as a baseline technique
I wait for the bow to pass between me and the target as it does so
I reverse the turn after a few seconds the turn is halted as the
bow comes back across your front between you and the target
(or point on the horizon) you repeat the procedure and reverse
your turn. ten minutes of this and you never even think
about it anymore. also you can build delays into this technique
to widen or lessen your zig zag.

an even zig zag is based more on time than space.

there is a great example in the video outgunned
(last link in my siggy)
or come visit us at uberboot development thread where there are
quite a few hands now with surface combat experience.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106453

[bigboywooly]

You dont need to cancel your waypoints anyway Rob

Dive
Zigzag
And then return to course when it is safe to

If you need to adjust the first waypoint then click on the tool you use to add waypoints and as you hold it over the first waypoint it will turn red
Click on it then move it to where you need to

Right click and the tool is gone and your sub follows route

[danlisa]

Just putting this out there. (and no, I have no idea how to do it)

Just like the auto plotting of the Kiel Canal & the changed Plot course button on the NO station, would it be possible to pre-program one of the other automated search patterns to include an 'Aircraft Evasion' option?:doh:

[Keelbuster]

Yea - I usually zig but don't zag. Rather, zig, then dive. When it's safe i return to course.

[Steppenwolf]

robj250,
You can cancel ALL of your waypoints by selecting the triangle tool, then pressing Shift-delete.

danlisa,
As far as I know you can change the three search patterns to whatever you like.
You need to edit \data\Menu\Patterns\Pattern1.mis or Pattern2.mis or Pattern3.mis to whatever you want.

[Mush Martin]

Just putting this out there. (and no, I have no idea how to do it)

Just like the auto plotting of the Kiel Canal & the changed Plot course button on the NO station, would it be possible to pre-program one of the other automated search patterns to include an 'Aircraft Evasion' option?:doh:

yes and no

its is possible

but due to some constraints of ship behaviour it would be a

wider zig zig patten It wont take but about ten or twenty minutes for
that Ill do it in a little while once I am back in mission editor later.

however testing I would have to contract out for are you willing.
if so I just released UBerboot 1.3 beta
(the only boat for aircraft missions and it includes a good one)
so you may want to grab a copy for the tests of the evasion pattern.

MM

MM

[Jimbuna]

Just putting this out there. (and no, I have no idea how to do it)

Just like the auto plotting of the Kiel Canal & the changed Plot course button on the NO station, would it be possible to pre-program one of the other automated search patterns to include an 'Aircraft Evasion' option?:doh:

Good idea Dan....I'm a lazy B...I just hit the 'D' key :D

[IceGrog]

You can cancel ALL of your waypoints by selecting the triangle tool, then pressing Shift-delete.

didn't know that

one time i was so tired of diving because of planes that i stayed on the surface to fight it out, i stayed at the controls to zig and zig.......wow my gunner knock him out of the sky......................but since then i haven't been able to shoot anything down................so a diving i go

[Mush Martin]

So the first attempt is on my File front page for now

if you want it grab it Ill get a chance to test it myself a little

later

Its under pattern one as 2 and 3 were the in and out of Kiel patterns.

Oh it may be a little short but if the spacing works out
ill make a longer one.

[robj250]

I need something Martin, because when I'm using fraps to taht vids, I cannot get to the rudder control because then the bottom panel comes into view in the vid and I don't want that.

Rob

[Mush Martin]

Well I did put it up rob and will correct it with feedback or
my own test a little later however I think if you need it
for filming what Ill do is take a few minutes now and
get a longer one done.

at this point six of you have the old one already.

apologies but i fear i made the pattern only long
enough for testing not for application I will
replace the one thats on my ff and post here
when its done but the name of the file wont change

if your one of the six who d/l'd it already you can
either dl again the replacement or open the
pattern in mission ed via the path posted above.
and just add more waypoints in the same pattern
and save.

BRB
MM:|\\

[Mush Martin]

OK a few further points on zig zag pattern
for the moment im going to take down the
one I put up already.

I am going to build a longer one for application
and take the time to test it thoroughly.
although I havent run through the first one
yet it is apparent I didnt make waypoints
on shallow enough angles and Im betting
that the first report on it will be of a uboat
hooking endlessly around the second or
third waypoint unable to get back around
so Im going to take a day to do it
right.

however for the filming app
Rob im not certain whether or not
you might want to consider a custom
maneuver pattern for filming
that is to say a zig zagging circle is great in an air
attack but aggressive pursuing ships im not so
sure. they do well against a straight circling ship
but not so well against a zig zagging straight
course ship. so i am assuming a zig zagging
circular course would both keep you safe
while filming keep your boat in dramatic
motion and also keep you in the area
of the attack rather than evading it
which for purposes of filming I would
assume to be beneficial.

let me know
MM

[edit] the new straightline zigzag should be available
this evening after testing.

I will make the film makers circular one also
and will just pm a copy to you rob.
although It may make a minorly useful
release as there are other video makers
that may find it useful

[robj250]

I would greatfully appreciate that Martin, but how would I activate it after I have pressed F12 for filming?

Rob

I just thought, a similar pattern might also be useful while submerged while being Depth charged or otherwise when there is a DD up above. hehe.

I don't usually zig zag while a DD is coming at me while I'm at periscope depth. I like to try to get bow shots, when the DD is close enough and is unable to avoid the "fish"

However, yesterday, I had a VW come after me and I waited for the shot like I always do, but it was coming too fast and I had to crash dive and the fish missed. Darn.

Rob

[Mush Martin]

I would greatfully appreciate that Martin, but how would I activate it after I have pressed F12 for filming?

Rob

I just thought, a similar pattern might also be useful while submerged while being Depth charged or otherwise when there is a DD up above. hehe.

I don't usually zig zag while a DD is coming at me while I'm at periscope depth. I like to try to get bow shots, when the DD is close enough and is unable to avoid the "fish"

However, yesterday, I had a VW come after me and I waited for the shot like I always do, but it was coming too fast and I had to crash dive and the fish missed. Darn.

Rob
it happens to us all I would have to spend a good deal more time
on a submerged evasion pattern because avoiding shells and bombs
uses the motion to disrupt aiming.

under water the sub maneuvers slowly. and the escorts work pre determined patterns.
for "SubmergedAutoEvasion" pattern to work I would have to spend
quite a bit more time studying the escort attack patterns. in watching
previously a four ship pattern many times I am somewhat familiar with
the evolutions of the attacks and how they progress.
You too can do this. In freecam just hover about a half mile of the data point they're attacking and at about a thousand feet up to take in all members of the attacking formation.
( not filming and just put boat into a 15 degree circle for the study session) if you rock back and forth on the time compression you will see how One will drift and listen for you. while the others progress through attacks eventually one of the attacking boats will spell out the listener and that ship will then move in to join the attack. and so on. it is actually a
highly realistic simulation of the real world technique of a creeping
or Deliberate attack in the parlance.

in order to do an effective auto evasion I have to determine by repetition and trial and error what positions I need to be in when the corresponding point of the attack is going on. further as in most cases the escort will press even an extensively worked autoevasion might not work at all. also every attack comes usually from a different angle. although most staged videos use missions so you could in that case preset the directon in relation to what
your filming but it would probably be useless tactically speaking in a campaign engagement.
Maybe maybe not.
the best I would recommend is just use the surface one as it by then
will be fast enough in its sloloms that the boat wont overshoot a
waypoint and start to circle endlessly. and the course changes will help.

Normally I still do maneuvers while doing this. but I do not shoot video
yet myself im afraid im still learning other things.

back a little later with tested auto evasion pattern
MM

[robj250]

I would greatfully appreciate that Martin, but how would I activate it after I have pressed F12 for filming?

Rob

I just thought, a similar pattern might also be useful while submerged while being Depth charged or otherwise when there is a DD up above. hehe.

I don't usually zig zag while a DD is coming at me while I'm at periscope depth. I like to try to get bow shots, when the DD is close enough and is unable to avoid the "fish"

However, yesterday, I had a VW come after me and I waited for the shot like I always do, but it was coming too fast and I had to crash dive and the fish missed. Darn.

Rob
it happens to us all I would have to spend a good deal more time
on a submerged evasion pattern because avoiding shells and bombs
uses the motion to disrupt aiming.

under water the sub maneuvers slowly. and the escorts work pre determined patterns.
for "SubmergedAutoEvasion" pattern to work I would have to spend
quite a bit more time studying the escort attack patterns. in watching
previously a four ship pattern many times I am somewhat familiar with
the evolutions of the attacks and how they progress.
You too can do this. In freecam just hover about a half mile of the data point they're attacking and at about a thousand feet up to take in all members of the attacking formation.
( not filming and just put boat into a 15 degree circle for the study session) if you rock back and forth on the time compression you will see how One will drift and listen for you. while the others progress through attacks eventually one of the attacking boats will spell out the listener and that ship will then move in to join the attack. and so on. it is actually a
highly realistic simulation of the real world technique of a creeping
or Deliberate attack in the parlance.

in order to do an effective auto evasion I have to determine by repetition and trial and error what positions I need to be in when the corresponding point of the attack is going on. further as in most cases the escort will press even an extensively worked autoevasion might not work at all. also every attack comes usually from a different angle. although most staged videos use missions so you could in that case preset the directon in relation to what
your filming but it would probably be useless tactically speaking in a campaign engagement.
Maybe maybe not.
the best I would recommend is just use the surface one as it by then
will be fast enough in its sloloms that the boat wont overshoot a
waypoint and start to circle endlessly. and the course changes will help.

Normally I still do maneuvers while doing this. but I do not shoot video
yet myself im afraid im still learning other things.

back a little later with tested auto evasion pattern
MM

A surface evasion patten is sufficient.

Rob

[Mush Martin]

Rob I havent forgotten, I got sidetracked by some
problems with one of my other mods and also
some realworld commitments.

I have it ready but I havent had a chance to test
it properly and I am anticipating at least one
difficult issue with it, in that I have no idea
how im going to get it to work in more than
one direction with out having the user adjust
three dozen waypoints, (definately not the
effect we are trying for )

however I expect to get to solo testing of
auto evasion pattern shortly and will
try my best to be quick.
MM

[robj250]

Rob I havent forgotten, I got sidetracked by some
problems with one of my other mods and also
some realworld commitments.

I have it ready but I havent had a chance to test
it properly and I am anticipating at least one
difficult issue with it, in that I have no idea
how im going to get it to work in more than
one direction with out having the user adjust
three dozen waypoints, (definately not the
effect we are trying for )

however I expect to get to solo testing of
auto evasion pattern shortly and will
try my best to be quick.
MM

Thanks. I just run into my convoy and only have 5 mg (I think the maximum for You Tube is 10 MB), so I have about 5 left for the attack on the convoy, so I may end this part short and start a new one for the convoy.

[Mush Martin]

Hey rob well I finally remembered to delete all my waypoints and
here it is.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img19-3-2007_12.jpg

it works but has a startup issue that should be easy to fix and needs
a little refinement on waypoint positioning as you can see. although
the uneven effect makes it look like its driven by a human for the
purpose of filming. Hmmm.

I was correct essentially it will only work automatically in one
direction. I am able as it is to do three directions but in so
doing anybody using it would lose auto kiel canal entry and egress
and they would only have the three auto choices of evasion direction.

It may be possible to add a fourth
but it is more likely to work better as a packacge
of 8 with tracks covering the compass rose or 16
but less is more its tedious work.

am still working on it for now.
however if you can tell me what
base course you need for your own
auto evasion pattern then if you could
post the current heading of your ship at
the point of initiating the auto evasion
and also what base course you would
like the evasion to run along.
MM:hmm:
(please be a straight line, please be a straight line, please be a straightline)

[robj250]

Hi Martin:

I'm not sure what you mean.

At the moment, I'm trying to finish the war using the stock SH3 heavily modded.

Your picture of the zig-zag look good, but I'm a little confused, can I not cancel the zig-zag when I want to by using new waypoints and have the navigator following it?

When finished, I will then be using the improved version of GWX.

[Mush Martin]

yes that will work or manually maneuvering the boat will work too.

the zig zag pattern will stay plotted though unless you replace it
with something else ie. a course youve plotted.

when you cancel it on nav map I think you need to delete it manually.

as I say this would work fine for filming or in a linear single mission.

but in campaign it has little function.

[robj250]

yes that will work or manually maneuvering the boat will work too.

the zig zag pattern will stay plotted though unless you replace it
with something else ie. a course youve plotted.

when you cancel it on nav map I think you need to delete it manually.

as I say this would work fine for filming or in a linear single mission.

but in campaign it has little function.

You mention delete it after I return to normal navigation. But in my missions, I am constantly being attack by planes in 1944.

[Mush Martin]

yes that will work or manually maneuvering the boat will work too.

the zig zag pattern will stay plotted though unless you replace it
with something else ie. a course youve plotted.

when you cancel it on nav map I think you need to delete it manually.

as I say this would work fine for filming or in a linear single mission.

but in campaign it has little function.
You mention delete it after I return to normal navigation. But in my missions, I am constantly being attack by planes in 1944.

so you are filming your campaign game not a single mission
and in the case of trying to use it in a fluid battle instead
of a setpiece one it wont really work.

[robj250]

yes that will work or manually maneuvering the boat will work too.

the zig zag pattern will stay plotted though unless you replace it
with something else ie. a course youve plotted.

when you cancel it on nav map I think you need to delete it manually.

as I say this would work fine for filming or in a linear single mission.

but in campaign it has little function.
You mention delete it after I return to normal navigation. But in my missions, I am constantly being attack by planes in 1944.

so you are filming your campaign game not a single mission
and in the case of trying to use it in a fluid battle instead
of a setpiece one it wont really work.

Yes, you would see that if you look at my list of movies.

[Mush Martin]

Well to summarize it is possible to make one

the most I feel that could be put into
a game would be three.

the direction of the pattern is the limit

in setpiece filming it would be very useful

in fluid battle it would be useless.

Im sorry rob that I hadnt seen your film list.

none the less Im going to continue looking

into the potential of auto evasion patterns.

MM