Defining the undefinable: The type IX addiction

[Ducimus]

So there's this little cliche of players who are generally under the umbrella of "IXoholic's anonymous" or the "IX Club" or whatever somebody decides to call it. Im not sure how it started (although i wonder if i had a hand in it :hmm: ), but i think it maybe i'd post about it to help eliminate some confusion.


First, a concession.

The type 7. It IS sleek, it is visually appealing, it is manuverable, and as a submersible underwater it outperforms the type9 in every respect. It was the perfect combination of endurance, weapons payload and manuberablity. What's more, its an icon of an era in history. When people think of german Uboats, they immediatly think of a type 7 with a netcutter on the bow.

So why then would anyone want a boat that is slower to dive, slower in underwater manuverablity, and in general isnt like the type 7?


The reasons are many, and im sure i wont list them all.

- some like the fact that you can see the bow while you stand on the bridge.

- some like the fact that it has more torpedo's and has better surface performance in a type 7. During early war, this is a big big big perk.

- some like the fact that it has more fuel, enableing them to travel faster, or longer, or reach places they'd like to check out. The sirens call to feel like your going someplace exotic.

- Some just like certain theaters of war for whatever reason. Maybe its because its closer to where they live, maybe they like the tonnage or the shipping routes , but for whatever reason, they like to go to certain far away places.

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

- some like being that lone wolf hunter. This is what a type9 was really meant to do, it wasn't really meant as a wolfpack uboat like a type 7.

- for some their true love was a gato submarine, and a type9 is the cloest thing to that.

the reasons are many, and im sure others could add a few more.

But it doesnt stop there. Its also about gameplay in context to a career game. Generally speaking you get a patrol grid, do your 24 hours, and then move on to where you know you'll find traffic. The patrol grid, im wagering, for most is nothing more then a formality to obtain renown. In both a type 7 and a type 9 you do this. Go to grid, do 24, move on. The difference here is that to a type9 career game, a patrol grid isnt just a formality, it represents an entirely different theater of the war.

-If you get a grid to GR, you know your going to the south atlantic and possibly even the indian ocean fuel permitting.
- ED? You know you'll be around port of spain in the carribean.
- CA or DB? you know you'll be off the US east coast.

And now im going to make one assumption but im pretty sure im right. For the most part, i think all of us play the game to
a.) sink ships
b.) survive as long as possible, hopefully even the war.

The second part is key here. If ones goal is to survive for a few years, or even the war, there isn't a better way to do that then in a type 9, for the simple reason that your at sea, per patrol, for a very long time compared to a type7. Your patrols usually go at a 60 day minmum, to as long as 120+ days, and you usually get around only 4 or 5 patrols a year. The crux of this is passage of time as a feeling of accomplishment, and the passage of gametime in a type7 is feels much longer in real world time as compared to a type 9 where the passage of game time is feels much quicker in the same amount of real world time by virtue of having to travel far to reach your grid.


Anyway, im out of time. thats all i got i guess.

[AVGWarhawk]

Good post! Last night I tried the VIIC and she is a very nice boat! Mostly I like the many torpedos of the IX and the mileage she gets on a full tank of fuel. Other than that, if I had to pick on looks alone, VII for sure. I believe your right that when uboat is brought up, people think of VII.

[Kpt. Kozloff]

That's ironic. Last time i mentioned the iconic status of the VII type boat i got torpedoed to bits on one of the threads.
Good read Ducimus, you got me thinking of a Caribbean cruise.:up:

[Hartmann]

I´n not adicted to Ix boats but i rarely use tipe VII boat.:88)

more torpedo load
more torpedoes tubes
more surface speed
more range.
more interesting patrols....

[Brag]

Ducimus,

Good article! :up:
I also think the variety of conning towers available has something to do with it. Having a new view after an X number of patrols is refreshing.

[stabiz]

Ducimus ... again?!

:rotfl:

Oh, and:

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

Who?

[Ducimus]

Ducimus ... again?!

:rotfl:

Oh, and:

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

Who?

I did :88)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=436713&postcount=30

[Rykaird]

It's a good thing we didn't have only VIIB and VIIC boats to choose from, or there would be endless threads debating the merits of the two.

No question, IX adds more variety to the game. It's a long war, and that variety helps. I prefer VII for convoys though - faster to get deep once the escorts are on you.

I've only been playing a few months, so if Ducimus says that long term survival is more likely in the IX than a VII I'll take his word for it. Personally, I've been croaked a lot more in the IX than in the VII, but that's probably my overall lack of expertise showing.

[Ducimus]

so if Ducimus says that long term survival is more likely in the IX than a VII I'll take his word for it.

By virtue of long patrols, more time passes, hence you get farther in the timeline.

In u-125 i had 5 patrols which came out to 324 days at sea, thats not counting time in port. In u-178 i had 3 patrols and 298 days at sea, also not counting time in port.

How much time passes in 3 to 5 patrols for a type 7 career game?

[Crazy Ian]

so if Ducimus says that long term survival is more likely in the IX than a VII I'll take his word for it.
By virtue of long patrols, more time passes, hence you get farther in the timeline.

In u-125 i had 5 patrols which came out to 324 days at sea, thats not counting time in port. In u-178 i had 3 patrols and 298 days at sea, also not counting time in port.

How much time passes in 3 to 5 patrols for a type 7 career game?

In my rusty trusty type VIIB I'm on Patrol 7 and it's December 1940....
I have a sneaky suspicion most of my crew will be turning into Thomsen's soon! :D

[Heibges]

3 Patrols in a Type VII for me would be about 180 days at sea.
5 Patrols in a Type VII for me would be about 300 days at sea.

I think the Type IX is fun. I went on a 135 day patrol to Capetown that was great. And the best part was, I didn't even sink any ships.

But also think the Type VII brings more tactical considerations into play.

The Type VII:
1. Really forces you to watch your speed, and conserve fuel. This also forces you to really maintain contact with convoys, because you might not have the fuel to find another. I have had to abandon convoy attacks because I was running low on fuel, and didn't dare maintain Flank Speed any longer.
2. Forces you to really manage your torpedo usage. I use the rules for Torpedo Allocation from the Uboat Commanders Handbook, so sinking 5 ships in a Type VII is a great victory. Even using the Torpedo Allocation Guidelines, it's pretty easy to sink 9 ships with the Type IX.

[Ducimus]

A couple people keep mentioning this fabeled handbook for uboat commanders. I've yet to see it. Im sure it exists, but as an exserviceman, every fiber in my being automatically wants to throw most of it out the window. Books written by REMF's are usually full of crap.

I went on a 135 day patrol to Capetown that was great. And the best part was, I didn't even sink any ships.

Thats odd.
This was a convoy attack:

07 Feb 1943
0138 GR 58 Ship sunk! Bogue Class, 15390 tons
0312 GR 58 Ship sunk! Tramp Steamer, 1969 tons
0328 GR 58 Ship sunk! River Class , 1350 tons
0406 GR 58 Ship sunk! River Class , 1350 tons

This was a 2nd convoy attack, same patrol, but off the grid system, SE of capetown.

17 Feb 1943
0445 87 Ship sunk! Troop Transport, 8279 tons
0630 87 Ship sunk! Heavy Transport, 7521 tons

:D

[stabiz]

Ducimus ... again?!

:rotfl:

Oh, and:

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.
Who?
I did :88)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=436713&postcount=30

I will have you thrown out of the Senate for this, Ducimus!:stare:

[robbo180265]

http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/stories/s476720.htm;)

[STEED]

Face facts guys the ladies like a big boat. ;)

[robbo180265]

Face facts guys the ladies like a big boat. ;)

Lots of range, more ammo - what woman wouldn't eh?:rotfl:

By the way I don't have a favourite,but I am using a IX at the moment:roll:

[Ducimus]

I will have you thrown out of the Senate for this, Ducimus!

Im a senator? Wow. News to my ears. :88)



I know the topics old, my hope was by defining it, we could put it to rest, but i know that wont stop friendly good natured rivalry :D

[robbo180265]

I know the topics old, my hope was by defining it, we could put it to rest, but i know that wont stop friendly good natured rivalry :D

Was only joking with you guys, nothing serious meant:lol: ;)

I think that everybody feels pretty strongly about their boats, and will argue their boats corner till the bitter end. The fact that we all feel so strongly about about them, and also the difference in their handling/use shows just how good the game is and how immersed we become in it.

But the argument IMO is quite subjective and I don't really think that there is a better sub, it's really just the one that you personally feel comfortable using(and of course what you want out of your patrols)

Hope this makes sense, First Officer Dal whinnie is on the watch:D

[Heibges]

A couple people keep mentioning this fabeled handbook for uboat commanders. I've yet to see it. Im sure it exists, but as an exserviceman, every fiber in my being automatically wants to throw most of it out the window. Books written by REMF's are usually full of crap.

Dude, you should definitely pick this up. Get it at Amazon for $8.95. The best money a subsimmer can spend. The best part it was written by Doenitz and his staff, and constantly updated based on reports by commanders during the war. It's as good or maybe even better than the Ranger's Handbook as military manuals go.

Thats odd.
This was a convoy attack:

07 Feb 1943
0138 GR 58 Ship sunk! Bogue Class, 15390 tons
0312 GR 58 Ship sunk! Tramp Steamer, 1969 tons
0328 GR 58 Ship sunk! River Class , 1350 tons
0406 GR 58 Ship sunk! River Class , 1350 tons

This was a 2nd convoy attack, same patrol, but off the grid system, SE of capetown.

17 Feb 1943
0445 87 Ship sunk! Troop Transport, 8279 tons
0630 87 Ship sunk! Heavy Transport, 7521 tons

:D

I didn't see one ship. The crew was greatly disheartened after all that time at sea. :)

[Ducimus]

My crew died after a 3rd convoy attack. :cry:

GWX acutally as quite a few convoys running down there. At least one route i know of comes from austrila, and it has an escort carrier in it. Theres another that runs from capetown to durban, and another that runs form the persian gulf to durban or capetown.

I ought to know, i made em - well the orginal version of the traffic additions there anyway. ( was on gwx team for a short spell) Im sure its been revised so extensivly it looks nothing like my orginal work though. :88) However, I am surpised they left that escort carrier in the Fremantle to Capetown convoy. I put it there as sort of a surpise against surface/end round attacks. Works too, i had to REALLY work hard to get ahead of that convoy, damn planes kept putting me in the cellar.

[stabiz]

I will have you thrown out of the Senate for this, Ducimus!
Im a senator? Wow. News to my ears. :88)



I know the topics old, my hope was by defining it, we could put it to rest, but i know that wont stop friendly good natured rivalry :D

Nah, I just seem to recall reading something about a Ducimus in the Roman Senate of old, but I may be wrong. I googled for 20 seconds to no avail. (Thats my Google-stamina)

Anyway, Type VII`s are the best, I`m glad we all agree!:D

*topic closed with barbed wire and old sofas*

[Ducimus]

I see we think alike. I do grab user names from Roman origin normally. In a few other games ive gone by "Rapax". (my favorite usename acutally)

I got Ducimus from somewhere else. Was creating a character for the first time when Everquest first launched. I coudlnt think of an orginal name so i started staring at anything in the room for an idea. Some "wallpaper" stood out, (http://www.redhorseassociation.org/photos/image.php?source=51 )
typed the name, used it ever since.

Later on reserved the domain name of the same name. My intent was to create a website similar to the one i just linked to. Ambition fell short it seems.

And here im sure some folks thought i had a huge ego, "guy gets a domain on his user name.. wow he's full of himself!"

[AVGWarhawk]

How about Gludious Maximus?:rotfl: :rotfl:

[stabiz]

How did you guys get through the barbed wire and over the sofas?

Duci: :up:

AVG: :huh:

[Ducimus]

http://www.wpclipart.com/recreation/games/card_deck/clubs_9.png

:smug:

[Spray]

So there's this little cliche of players who are generally under the umbrella of "IXoholic's anonymous" or the "IX Club" or whatever somebody decides to call it. Im not sure how it started (although i wonder if i had a hand in it :hmm: ), but i think it maybe i'd post about it to help eliminate some confusion.


First, a concession.

The type 7. It IS sleek, it is visually appealing, it is manuverable, and as a submersible underwater it outperforms the type9 in every respect. It was the perfect combination of endurance, weapons payload and manuberablity. What's more, its an icon of an era in history. When people think of german Uboats, they immediatly think of a type 7 with a netcutter on the bow.

So why then would anyone want a boat that is slower to dive, slower in underwater manuverablity, and in general isnt like the type 7?


The reasons are many, and im sure i wont list them all.

- some like the fact that you can see the bow while you stand on the bridge.

- some like the fact that it has more torpedo's and has better surface performance in a type 7. During early war, this is a big big big perk.

- some like the fact that it has more fuel, enableing them to travel faster, or longer, or reach places they'd like to check out. The sirens call to feel like your going someplace exotic.

- Some just like certain theaters of war for whatever reason. Maybe its because its closer to where they live, maybe they like the tonnage or the shipping routes , but for whatever reason, they like to go to certain far away places.

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

- some like being that lone wolf hunter. This is what a type9 was really meant to do, it wasn't really meant as a wolfpack uboat like a type 7.

- for some their true love was a gato submarine, and a type9 is the cloest thing to that.

the reasons are many, and im sure others could add a few more.

But it doesnt stop there. Its also about gameplay in context to a career game. Generally speaking you get a patrol grid, do your 24 hours, and then move on to where you know you'll find traffic. The patrol grid, im wagering, for most is nothing more then a formality to obtain renown. In both a type 7 and a type 9 you do this. Go to grid, do 24, move on. The difference here is that to a type9 career game, a patrol grid isnt just a formality, it represents an entirely different theater of the war.

-If you get a grid to GR, you know your going to the south atlantic and possibly even the indian ocean fuel permitting.
- ED? You know you'll be around port of spain in the carribean.
- CA or DB? you know you'll be off the US east coast.

And now im going to make one assumption but im pretty sure im right. For the most part, i think all of us play the game to
a.) sink ships
b.) survive as long as possible, hopefully even the war.

The second part is key here. If ones goal is to survive for a few years, or even the war, there isn't a better way to do that then in a type 9, for the simple reason that your at sea, per patrol, for a very long time compared to a type7. Your patrols usually go at a 60 day minmum, to as long as 120+ days, and you usually get around only 4 or 5 patrols a year. The crux of this is passage of time as a feeling of accomplishment, and the passage of gametime in a type7 is feels much longer in real world time as compared to a type 9 where the passage of game time is feels much quicker in the same amount of real world time by virtue of having to travel far to reach your grid.


Anyway, im out of time. thats all i got i guess.

You contradict yourself, you go on to say how the type 7 outclasses the type 9 in every retrospect. Maybe add an accept for Surface Speed, Torp Tubes, Range, Firepower, Torpedoes. Im sure there could be some others out there. Just correcting an error mate. Now one sec I attempted jumping across the barbed wire and it seems to have cut me all over. Ill be right back with bedadine for any other IXB users who attempted the same thing.

[STEED]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2344/milktray1ua6.jpg

[Spray]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2344/milktray1ua6.jpg

Bigger is better :rotfl:I woulda thought ladies would hate IX captains :rotfl:.

[Ducimus]

You contradict yourself, you go on to say how the type 7 outclasses the type 9 in every retrospect.

NOoooo i did not , i said.

as a submersible underwater it outperforms the type9 in every respect.

Bold part highlighted to improve reading comprehension. In submarine terms a submersible is a ship capable of going underwater.

So let me rewrite this sentence for you in smaller words.


"as a ship capable of going underwater, while its underwater it outperforms the type 9 in every respect."

:stare:

[g8rk0k]

I am so used to the type VII that when I went to a type XIV I was killed during my first patrol.

It just seems that once a destroyer has your scent it is really very very hard to shake him off and you are pung repeatedly. Plus the XIV just turns so slow. Even at moderate depth of 40-50 meters in the type VII, and if I can keep the hunters behind me more or less, I rarely, if ever get hit with a sonar ping (this has changed recently for me - as it is late '43 in my campaign and the allies have developed some uber type of sonar that is just evil).

I played the XIV in a previous campaign and stuck to areas way out in the Western BE or BD areas, sometimes going to the coast of Florida or down around Curacao. I went in to the gulf of Mexico once but air cover was horrible.

In my new patrol I like to stick close to England and brave places I would never try with the type XIV - like camping out at 15 meters within 25 km of Merthyr or penetrating the Irish strait and laying in wait for ships.

[Jimbuna]

Helluva post Ducimus :up:

IXB :rock: Not all wolves hunt in packs :arrgh!:

[Spray]

You contradict yourself, you go on to say how the type 7 outclasses the type 9 in every retrospect.
NOoooo i did not , i said.

as a submersible underwater it outperforms the type9 in every respect.
Bold part highlighted to improve reading comprehension. In submarine terms a submersible is a ship capable of going underwater.

So let me rewrite this sentence for you in smaller words.


"as a ship capable of going underwater, while its underwater it outperforms the type 9 in every respect."

:stare:

Thats an edit I swear but the IXB still beats the Type 7 as a submersible under water having a higher torpedo capacity so it doesn't have to surface to load up the externals.

[Linavitch]

Good post Ducimus. Thoughtful and well written.

I have used type VII in all but one of my campaigns, and the only type IX campaign lasted one patrol with GWX. Admittedly it was my own fault for trying to take on convoys with the same tactics as I'd used with the VII.

I have just upgraded my PC and reinstalled and have just started a new career with a IX. Just saved 200km out of port for SH3Gen at bedtime ready for extended play this weekend. Hopefully I've learnt enough no utilise this big boat to the max. Wish me luck.

[Spray]

Good post Ducimus. Thoughtful and well written.

I have used type VII in all but one of my campaigns, and the only type IX campaign lasted one patrol with GWX. Admittedly it was my own fault for trying to take on convoys with the same tactics as I'd used with the VII.

I have just upgraded my PC and reinstalled and have just started a new career with a IX. Just saved 200km out of port for SH3Gen at bedtime ready for extended play this weekend. Hopefully I've learnt enough no utilise this big boat to the max. Wish me luck.

Which IX boat are you using is it the IXB? When I switched the only difference I noticed was 3 times more torps. :rotfl: