Defining the undefinable: The type IX addiction

Ducimus · 03-07-07, 03:39 PM

So there's this little cliche of players who are generally under the umbrella of "IXoholic's anonymous" or the "IX Club" or whatever somebody decides to call it. Im not sure how it started (although i wonder if i had a hand in it :hmm: ), but i think it maybe i'd post about it to help eliminate some confusion.

First, a concession.

The type 7. It IS sleek, it is visually appealing, it is manuverable, and as a submersible underwater it outperforms the type9 in every respect. It was the perfect combination of endurance, weapons payload and manuberablity. What's more, its an icon of an era in history. When people think of german Uboats, they immediatly think of a type 7 with a netcutter on the bow.

So why then would anyone want a boat that is slower to dive, slower in underwater manuverablity, and in general isnt like the type 7?

The reasons are many, and im sure i wont list them all.

- some like the fact that you can see the bow while you stand on the bridge.

- some like the fact that it has more torpedo's and has better surface performance in a type 7. During early war, this is a big big big perk.

- some like the fact that it has more fuel, enableing them to travel faster, or longer, or reach places they'd like to check out. The sirens call to feel like your going someplace exotic.

- Some just like certain theaters of war for whatever reason. Maybe its because its closer to where they live, maybe they like the tonnage or the shipping routes , but for whatever reason, they like to go to certain far away places.

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

- some like being that lone wolf hunter. This is what a type9 was really meant to do, it wasn't really meant as a wolfpack uboat like a type 7.

- for some their true love was a gato submarine, and a type9 is the cloest thing to that.

the reasons are many, and im sure others could add a few more.

But it doesnt stop there. Its also about gameplay in context to a career game. Generally speaking you get a patrol grid, do your 24 hours, and then move on to where you know you'll find traffic. The patrol grid, im wagering, for most is nothing more then a formality to obtain renown. In both a type 7 and a type 9 you do this. Go to grid, do 24, move on. The difference here is that to a type9 career game, a patrol grid isnt just a formality, it represents an entirely different theater of the war.

-If you get a grid to GR, you know your going to the south atlantic and possibly even the indian ocean fuel permitting.
- ED? You know you'll be around port of spain in the carribean.
- CA or DB? you know you'll be off the US east coast.

And now im going to make one assumption but im pretty sure im right. For the most part, i think all of us play the game to
a.) sink ships
b.) survive as long as possible, hopefully even the war.

The second part is key here. If ones goal is to survive for a few years, or even the war, there isn't a better way to do that then in a type 9, for the simple reason that your at sea, per patrol, for a very long time compared to a type7. Your patrols usually go at a 60 day minmum, to as long as 120+ days, and you usually get around only 4 or 5 patrols a year. The crux of this is passage of time as a feeling of accomplishment, and the passage of gametime in a type7 is feels much longer in real world time as compared to a type 9 where the passage of game time is feels much quicker in the same amount of real world time by virtue of having to travel far to reach your grid.

Anyway, im out of time. thats all i got i guess.

AVGWarhawk · 03-07-07, 03:52 PM

Good post! Last night I tried the VIIC and she is a very nice boat! Mostly I like the many torpedos of the IX and the mileage she gets on a full tank of fuel. Other than that, if I had to pick on looks alone, VII for sure. I believe your right that when uboat is brought up, people think of VII.

Kpt. Kozloff · 03-07-07, 04:19 PM

That's ironic. Last time i mentioned the iconic status of the VII type boat i got torpedoed to bits on one of the threads.
Good read Ducimus, you got me thinking of a Caribbean cruise.

Hartmann · 03-07-07, 04:24 PM

I´n not adicted to Ix boats but i rarely use tipe VII boat.

more torpedo load
more torpedoes tubes
more surface speed
more range.
more interesting patrols....

Brag · 03-07-07, 04:48 PM

Ducimus,

Good article!

I also think the variety of conning towers available has something to do with it. Having a new view after an X number of patrols is refreshing.

stabiz · 03-07-07, 04:49 PM

Ducimus ... again?!

:rotfl:

Oh, and:

Quote:

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

Who?

Ducimus · 03-07-07, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stabiz

Ducimus ... again?!

:rotfl:

Oh, and:

Quote:

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

Who?

I did

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...3&postcount=30

Rykaird · 03-07-07, 05:09 PM

It's a good thing we didn't have only VIIB and VIIC boats to choose from, or there would be endless threads debating the merits of the two.

No question, IX adds more variety to the game. It's a long war, and that variety helps. I prefer VII for convoys though - faster to get deep once the escorts are on you.

I've only been playing a few months, so if Ducimus says that long term survival is more likely in the IX than a VII I'll take his word for it. Personally, I've been croaked a lot more in the IX than in the VII, but that's probably my overall lack of expertise showing.

Ducimus · 03-07-07, 05:50 PM

Quote:

so if Ducimus says that long term survival is more likely in the IX than a VII I'll take his word for it.

By virtue of long patrols, more time passes, hence you get farther in the timeline.

In u-125 i had 5 patrols which came out to 324 days at sea, thats not counting time in port. In u-178 i had 3 patrols and 298 days at sea, also not counting time in port.

How much time passes in 3 to 5 patrols for a type 7 career game?

Crazy Ian · 03-07-07, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Quote:

so if Ducimus says that long term survival is more likely in the IX than a VII I'll take his word for it.

By virtue of long patrols, more time passes, hence you get farther in the timeline.

In u-125 i had 5 patrols which came out to 324 days at sea, thats not counting time in port. In u-178 i had 3 patrols and 298 days at sea, also not counting time in port.

How much time passes in 3 to 5 patrols for a type 7 career game?

In my rusty trusty type VIIB I'm on Patrol 7 and it's December 1940....
I have a sneaky suspicion most of my crew will be turning into Thomsen's soon!

Heibges · 03-07-07, 06:17 PM

3 Patrols in a Type VII for me would be about 180 days at sea.
5 Patrols in a Type VII for me would be about 300 days at sea.

I think the Type IX is fun. I went on a 135 day patrol to Capetown that was great. And the best part was, I didn't even sink any ships.

But also think the Type VII brings more tactical considerations into play.

The Type VII:
1. Really forces you to watch your speed, and conserve fuel. This also forces you to really maintain contact with convoys, because you might not have the fuel to find another. I have had to abandon convoy attacks because I was running low on fuel, and didn't dare maintain Flank Speed any longer.
2. Forces you to really manage your torpedo usage. I use the rules for Torpedo Allocation from the Uboat Commanders Handbook, so sinking 5 ships in a Type VII is a great victory. Even using the Torpedo Allocation Guidelines, it's pretty easy to sink 9 ships with the Type IX.

Ducimus · 03-07-07, 06:37 PM

A couple people keep mentioning this fabeled handbook for uboat commanders. I've yet to see it. Im sure it exists, but as an exserviceman, every fiber in my being automatically wants to throw most of it out the window. Books written by REMF's are usually full of crap.

Quote:

I went on a 135 day patrol to Capetown that was great. And the best part was, I didn't even sink any ships.

Thats odd.
This was a convoy attack:

07 Feb 1943
0138 GR 58 Ship sunk! Bogue Class, 15390 tons
0312 GR 58 Ship sunk! Tramp Steamer, 1969 tons
0328 GR 58 Ship sunk! River Class , 1350 tons
0406 GR 58 Ship sunk! River Class , 1350 tons

This was a 2nd convoy attack, same patrol, but off the grid system, SE of capetown.

17 Feb 1943
0445 87 Ship sunk! Troop Transport, 8279 tons
0630 87 Ship sunk! Heavy Transport, 7521 tons

stabiz · 03-07-07, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Quote:

Originally Posted by stabiz

Ducimus ... again?!

:rotfl:

Oh, and:

Quote:

- Some feel that north alantic is dull.

Who?

I did

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...3&postcount=30

I will have you thrown out of the Senate for this, Ducimus!

robbo180265 · 03-07-07, 07:04 PM

http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/stories/s476720.htm

STEED · 03-07-07, 07:26 PM

Face facts guys the ladies like a big boat.

03-07-07, 03:39 PM	#1
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Defining the undefinable: The type IX addiction So there's this little cliche of players who are generally under the umbrella of "IXoholic's anonymous" or the "IX Club" or whatever somebody decides to call it. Im not sure how it started (although i wonder if i had a hand in it :hmm: ), but i think it maybe i'd post about it to help eliminate some confusion. First, a concession. The type 7. It IS sleek, it is visually appealing, it is manuverable, and as a submersible underwater it outperforms the type9 in every respect. It was the perfect combination of endurance, weapons payload and manuberablity. What's more, its an icon of an era in history. When people think of german Uboats, they immediatly think of a type 7 with a netcutter on the bow. So why then would anyone want a boat that is slower to dive, slower in underwater manuverablity, and in general isnt like the type 7? The reasons are many, and im sure i wont list them all. - some like the fact that you can see the bow while you stand on the bridge. - some like the fact that it has more torpedo's and has better surface performance in a type 7. During early war, this is a big big big perk. - some like the fact that it has more fuel, enableing them to travel faster, or longer, or reach places they'd like to check out. The sirens call to feel like your going someplace exotic. - Some just like certain theaters of war for whatever reason. Maybe its because its closer to where they live, maybe they like the tonnage or the shipping routes , but for whatever reason, they like to go to certain far away places. - Some feel that north alantic is dull. - some like being that lone wolf hunter. This is what a type9 was really meant to do, it wasn't really meant as a wolfpack uboat like a type 7. - for some their true love was a gato submarine, and a type9 is the cloest thing to that. the reasons are many, and im sure others could add a few more. But it doesnt stop there. Its also about gameplay in context to a career game. Generally speaking you get a patrol grid, do your 24 hours, and then move on to where you know you'll find traffic. The patrol grid, im wagering, for most is nothing more then a formality to obtain renown. In both a type 7 and a type 9 you do this. Go to grid, do 24, move on. The difference here is that to a type9 career game, a patrol grid isnt just a formality, it represents an entirely different theater of the war. -If you get a grid to GR, you know your going to the south atlantic and possibly even the indian ocean fuel permitting. - ED? You know you'll be around port of spain in the carribean. - CA or DB? you know you'll be off the US east coast. And now im going to make one assumption but im pretty sure im right. For the most part, i think all of us play the game to a.) sink ships b.) survive as long as possible, hopefully even the war. The second part is key here. If ones goal is to survive for a few years, or even the war, there isn't a better way to do that then in a type 9, for the simple reason that your at sea, per patrol, for a very long time compared to a type7. Your patrols usually go at a 60 day minmum, to as long as 120+ days, and you usually get around only 4 or 5 patrols a year. The crux of this is passage of time as a feeling of accomplishment, and the passage of gametime in a type7 is feels much longer in real world time as compared to a type 9 where the passage of game time is feels much quicker in the same amount of real world time by virtue of having to travel far to reach your grid. Anyway, im out of time. thats all i got i guess.

03-07-07, 03:52 PM	#2
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Good post! Last night I tried the VIIC and she is a very nice boat! Mostly I like the many torpedos of the IX and the mileage she gets on a full tank of fuel. Other than that, if I had to pick on looks alone, VII for sure. I believe your right that when uboat is brought up, people think of VII. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-07-07, 04:19 PM	#3
Kpt. Kozloff Frogman Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Jersey - Channel Islands, UK Posts: 305 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	That's ironic. Last time i mentioned the iconic status of the VII type boat i got torpedoed to bits on one of the threads. Good read Ducimus, you got me thinking of a Caribbean cruise. __________________ GWX1.03/Cmdr2.7/plus all sorts of tweaks

03-07-07, 04:24 PM	#4
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	I´n not adicted to Ix boats but i rarely use tipe VII boat. more torpedo load more torpedoes tubes more surface speed more range. more interesting patrols.... __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

03-07-07, 04:48 PM	#5
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ducimus, Good article! I also think the variety of conning towers available has something to do with it. Having a new view after an X number of patrols is refreshing. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

03-07-07, 05:09 PM	#8
Rykaird Weps Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 356 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	It's a good thing we didn't have only VIIB and VIIC boats to choose from, or there would be endless threads debating the merits of the two. No question, IX adds more variety to the game. It's a long war, and that variety helps. I prefer VII for convoys though - faster to get deep once the escorts are on you. I've only been playing a few months, so if Ducimus says that long term survival is more likely in the IX than a VII I'll take his word for it. Personally, I've been croaked a lot more in the IX than in the VII, but that's probably my overall lack of expertise showing.

03-07-07, 06:17 PM	#11
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	3 Patrols in a Type VII for me would be about 180 days at sea. 5 Patrols in a Type VII for me would be about 300 days at sea. I think the Type IX is fun. I went on a 135 day patrol to Capetown that was great. And the best part was, I didn't even sink any ships. But also think the Type VII brings more tactical considerations into play. The Type VII: 1. Really forces you to watch your speed, and conserve fuel. This also forces you to really maintain contact with convoys, because you might not have the fuel to find another. I have had to abandon convoy attacks because I was running low on fuel, and didn't dare maintain Flank Speed any longer. 2. Forces you to really manage your torpedo usage. I use the rules for Torpedo Allocation from the Uboat Commanders Handbook, so sinking 5 ships in a Type VII is a great victory. Even using the Torpedo Allocation Guidelines, it's pretty easy to sink 9 ships with the Type IX. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

03-07-07, 07:04 PM	#14
robbo180265 Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brighton, England.Party capital of the south Posts: 2,255 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	http://www.abc.net.au/canberra/stories/s476720.htm

03-07-07, 07:26 PM	#15
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Face facts guys the ladies like a big boat. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!