FSAA/Anti-aliasing/Major resolution problem (merged)

[malkuth74]

Why do you guys keep blaming UBI? UBI is the Publisher not the Developer. Rushing the Developer is not the problem. If it doesnt support FSAA then that was a Decision the Devs made not UBI.

[The General]

How much more work would be involved for the Devs to generate the of higer resolution 3D you speak of?Does anybody know?

[stabiz]

Strange that three recent (big) UBI-titles have no AA option then.

[tommyk]

Why do you guys keep blaming UBI? UBI is the Publisher not the Developer. Rushing the Developer is not the problem. If it doesnt support FSAA then that was a Decision the Devs made not UBI.

Yes, but this threat is not about FSAA. Its about the faked resolution...

[Kruger]

My Samsung has a native res of 1280x1024....so I really did not see anything weird. But....this is nasty :-?

[Ragtag]

Why do you guys keep blaming UBI? UBI is the Publisher not the Developer. Rushing the Developer is not the problem. If it doesnt support FSAA then that was a Decision the Devs made not UBI.

You are kinda wrong here;) It's Ubisofts department in Romania that developed the game .

[The General]

Resolution issues aside. SH4 is a considerable improvement on SH3, and that's the really important part right?

[malkuth74]

Why do you guys keep blaming UBI? UBI is the Publisher not the Developer. Rushing the Developer is not the problem. If it doesnt support FSAA then that was a Decision the Devs made not UBI.
Yes, but this threat is not about FSAA. Its about the faked resolution...

There has been a few people since yesterday talking about the game and have not mentioned this yet. (they got them early) I am wondering where you got your copy from, and all the other people that suddenly have the game today thats posting in this thread?

[tommyk]

Resolution issues aside. SH4 is a considerable improvement on SH3, and that's the really important part right?

Sadly, to me it is not... But thats a decision one has to make up for himself...

[Paajtor]

From the Ubi-topic that XanderF(-ulton?) posted:

From the reports I've read the 3d world resolution is locked at 1024x768 only the lower menu and other menus gets to higher resolutions.

So upping the res will not help with the Jaggies one bit since the 3d world is stuck at 1024x768!

The issue isn't AA.
Ubisoft saw wisdom in keeping SH4 locked at 1024x768. Rather then natively support today's contemporary resolutions, they choose to simply upscale the antiquated 1024x768 to higher resolutions.

[gmohr]

I've lurked here for literally years, so an official Hi to everyone.

I'm pressed into posting just to say OMG why? Why would they do this, and how is it that no word of this crept out from the pre-viewers, etc.

Let me say, if they decided to intentionally force 1024x768 then I'll NOT be buying this game. The AA thing had me saying "meh, who cares its just AA". But no hi-rez? I've not been so dissapointed in a long time.

I'm holding on to some small hope that this is merely a bug which can be fixed with some manual config file editing. But... yeaaah.... umm....

:damn: :down:

[AVGWarhawk]

Uhm, I have been looking for any thing stating the game will support higher resolution other than 1024x768. Does anyone have this anywhere?:hmm:

[JasonSK]

It amazes me, they can make such a cool game yet are totaly freaking usless at the engine.. like.. come on.... you dont support fsaa.. you DONT support ANY other rez other then 1024x768.. no ubi...s treatching the SNOT out of it doesnt count.. it relaly shone to light today when I was trying to shell a freighter.. hell.... I think silent service.. had jaggeds

[tommyk]

Why do you guys keep blaming UBI? UBI is the Publisher not the Developer. Rushing the Developer is not the problem. If it doesnt support FSAA then that was a Decision the Devs made not UBI.
Yes, but this threat is not about FSAA. Its about the faked resolution...

There has been a few people since yesterday talking about the game and have not mentioned this yet. (they got them early) I am wondering where you got your copy from, and all the other people that suddenly have the game today thats posting in this thread?

I dont have SH4 but I have eyes and I can think. No need to imply that I have a 'copy'... :down:

Pre-Order of SuperDuperSpecialEdition just cancled...

[Faamecanic]

:dead: Well guys...that settles it for me. After SH3 and the bugs that N E V E R got fixed (until modders did the best they could with no SDK), and now this.... :down: :down:

I will not be buying SH4 unless they patch this mess first. Im perfectly happy playing GWX... modders without a SDK make a better game for free...truly sad.

I have an older Dell 19" LCD with a native res of 1600X1200... with no FSAA, and no REAL Higher res than 1024x768 (cripes Half life 1 shipped being able to support higher resolutions and that was what 10 years ago)... pathetic...truly pathetic.

[RickC Sniper]

Resolution issues aside. SH4 is a considerable improvement on SH3, and that's the really important part right?

The thing is, a lot of us have purchased LCD monitors since sh3, and our widescreens look crappy when not run in their native resolutions. It's not as big a deal if you are still using a CRT monitor. Widescreens simply NEED to stay in their native resolutions. And we were promised high res and widescreen suport.

It needs to be fixed, somehow.

[tedhealy]

Uhm, I have been looking for any thing stating the game will support higher resolution other than 1024x768. Does anyone have this anywhere?:hmm:

I was looking too. I don't recall seeing it anywhere on the official site, but I know I saw one of the devs saying it in a video. Not to mention it gives you the option to select higher res in the menu...which is rather misleading if the 3d world is locked.

[malkuth74]

Resolution issues aside. SH4 is a considerable improvement on SH3, and that's the really important part right?
The thing is, a lot of us have purchased LCD monitors since sh3, and our widescreens look crappy when not run in their native resolutions. It's not as big a deal if you are still using a CRT monitor. Widescreens simply NEED to stay in their native resolutions. And we were promised high res and widescreen suport.

It needs to be fixed, somehow.

So people that don't have WideScreen LCD will not notice? If true glad I kept my trusty CRT, and didn't jump on the LCD bandwagon. Is this current problem everyone in this thread is bitching about just a Widescreen LCD problem? If so then you need to make that clear.

And where the hell did you get the game? Its not even shipped yet.

[stabiz]

You will find it - in writing - in the dev answers-thread at UBI forums.

[Paajtor]

Taking another look at the pictures, it looks like the foreground is in the correct resolution(dials and such) the back picture is definitly something else.

Copied from the anti-aliasing topic (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=450595#post450595):

From the reports I've read the 3d world resolution is locked at 1024x768 only the lower menu and other menus gets to higher resolutions.

So upping the res will not help with the Jaggies one bit since the 3d world is stuck at 1024x768!
The issue isn't AA.
Ubisoft saw wisdom in keeping SH4 locked at 1024x768. Rather then natively support today's contemporary resolutions, they choose to simply upscale the antiquated 1024x768 to higher resolutions.

[stabiz]

Resolution issues aside. SH4 is a considerable improvement on SH3, and that's the really important part right?
The thing is, a lot of us have purchased LCD monitors since sh3, and our widescreens look crappy when not run in their native resolutions. It's not as big a deal if you are still using a CRT monitor. Widescreens simply NEED to stay in their native resolutions. And we were promised high res and widescreen suport.

It needs to be fixed, somehow.
So people that don't have WideScreen LCD will not notice? If true glad I kept my trusty CRT, and didn't jump on the LCD bandwagon. Is this current problem everyone in this thread is bitching about just a Widescreen LCD problem? If so then you need to make that clear.

And where the hell did you get the game? Its not even shipped yet.

Your trusty CRT will notice, if you plan to play above 1024x768. The game is out in several countries now, some have bought it in the US too.

[tedhealy]

You will find it - in writing - in the dev answers-thread at UBI forums.

Can you post a link to the page that answer is on? I just searched those answers and did not see it.

[Ryan]

Uhm, I have been looking for any thing stating the game will support higher resolution other than 1024x768. Does anyone have this anywhere?:hmm:

It's in the recently released developer interview video.

Ryan

[gmohr]

Actually, this isn't an LCD problem. Since the game framework "supports" widescreen, the image will fill the whole physcial screen, however apparently the 3-d world is rendered in low rez, then upscaled.

So LCD and CRT people get equally screwed here...

[MaciejK]

Same as XanderF, got an LCD...without FSAA games look much worse on an LCD, but I prefer LCSs as they are better for my eyes. Mine has got max res of 1280x1024 - does that mean tht I will have a damn jaggy game?not going to cancel my order, though...But I can't believe that after releasing beta version of SH3 they did the same with SH4...

[evil666]

hi folks!

if it is true, it's a NO GO. :down:

just canceled my pre-order a few minutes ago. telling the people, sh4 would support higher resolutions than 1024x768 and now we get this? omg, it's almost the biggest lie and dumbest fake thing i've ever heard of. shame on the devs. :nope:

evil666, disappointed german customer

(sorry for my bad english) :oops:

[JasonSK]

lets just tar and feather them and be done with it

[CCIP]

How many people other than the original poster here have confirmed this issue?
It could be a singular case; in another thread, someone suggested that SHIV needs to be restarted after changing resolution.

Please verify the issue before making such a fuss - I hope all this yelling is justified by more than one report!

On the other hand, it doesn't bother me, since I'm locked at 1024x768 and an old vid card anyway :p

[AVGWarhawk]

Uhm, I have been looking for any thing stating the game will support higher resolution other than 1024x768. Does anyone have this anywhere?:hmm:

It's in the recently released developer interview video.

Ryan


What I have read it is the interface that is adjustablet to higher resolutions. Is not the interface the gauges and buttons on the bottom?

[CCIP]

Also, looking through the forums, I've seen several reports of people running the game at 1600x1200. Are they blind, or is there something possibly wacky about this panic? :hmm:

[DirtyHarry3033]

Jeez I hate that I saw this thread :( Was excited to run out and get SH4 tomorrow, I cut my sub-sim teeth on Silent Service II way back in 1990 and have been waiting 17 years to get back in the Pacific! This is making me think twice but I imagine I'll get it anyway. (What can I say, I ain't the brightest light that shines!)

Personally, I blame the mod community for this (tongue-in-cheek here, OK?) Look what they did for SH3, they turned it into the game that UBI should have released to begin with, and all for free! Can you blame UBI/devs/whoever? I'm sure they were going "Let's just get the game released. The mods will finish it for us and make it a game worth playing, and it won't cost us a cent! Meanwhile we'll make big $$$ on the hype we've generated!!!"

Let's try to look on the bright side, in 6 months or so hopefully, the modders will give us the game we paid UBI for! You guys that make the mods RULE!!!

[stabiz]

You will find it - in writing - in the dev answers-thread at UBI forums.
Can you post a link to the page that answer is on? I just searched those answers and did not see it.

It seems several pages are missing, maybe pre-forum crash.

[AVGWarhawk]

Also, looking through the forums, I've seen several reports of people running the game at 1600x1200. Are they blind, or is there something possibly wacky about this panic? :hmm:

Possible! I see one person stating an issue at this point. We can not doubt his pictures. Does anyone else have any?

Also, I read the interface can be changed. Is not he interface the buttons and dials?

[flintlock]

Resolution issues aside. SH4 is a considerable improvement on SH3, and that's the really important part right? Upscaling a dated 1024x768 resolution to higher resolutions, rather than natively supporting them, may likely be a show stopper for many.

[tedhealy]

How many people other than the original poster here have confirmed this issue?
It could be a singular case; in another thread, someone suggested that SHIV needs to be restarted after changing resolution.

Please verify the issue before making such a fuss - I hope all this yelling is justified by more than one report!

On the other hand, it doesn't bother me, since I'm locked at 1024x768 and an old vid card anyway :p

There's a thread at the official forum in the community tech help section saying the same thing.

[Barkhorn1x]

Uhm, I have been looking for any thing stating the game will support higher resolution other than 1024x768. Does anyone have this anywhere?:hmm:

First let me state that I remember seeing a screenie from the French site that showed a drop-down box of available resolutions and there were MANY that went up to 2900(?) something or other.

Secondly, I was thinking that w/o AA I would run the game at a higher resolution to side-step the issue. Oh well. :nope:

Third, this is horrible! How could they even think to release a sim in this state after all the promises made? :down:

[AVGWarhawk]

Uhm, I have been looking for any thing stating the game will support higher resolution other than 1024x768. Does anyone have this anywhere?:hmm:

First let me state that I remember seeing a screenie from the French site that showed a drop-down box of available resolutions and there were MANY that went up to 2900(?) something or other.

Secondly, I was thinking that w/o AA I would run the game at a higher resolution to side-step the issue. Oh well. :nope:

Third, this is horrible! How could they even think to release a sim in this state after all the promises made? :down:


I'll ask again, is it the interface meaning the dials and such on the bottom that will change to higher resolution? I don't know.

[kiwi_2005]

I can confirm this also.
The 3d game is fixed at max 1024X768.
Buying SH4 must be my worst gaming experience ever. Bye bye SH4

:roll:

No doubt a fix for this will come out. But seriously are some of you going to dump SHIV because of resolution issues? Then go back to your desk duty! I dont care much whether zagged edges are all over my boat, tis really about the gameplay.

SHIV is v1.0 or might even be v0.09 so dont be quick to uninstall the game, wait and have faith in the dev's or modders.:)

[gmohr]

I'll ask again, is it the interface meaning the dials and such on the bottom that will change to higher resolution? I don't know.

Yes, as clearly evidenced by the screen shot snippet that started this thread, the instruments and other "UI" elements are in the correct resolution, while the 3-D world components (you know, the stuff that *matters*) are in low rez and stretched to fit in the high rez window.

No doubt a fix for this will come out. But seriously are some of you going to dump SHIV because of resolution issues? Then go back to your desk duty! I dont care much whether zagged edges are all over my boat, tis really about the gameplay.

SHIV is v1.0 or might even be v0.09 so dont be quick to uninstall the game, wait and have faith in the dev's or modders

Just today, I was trying to get a good range on a large cargo, when the mast kept flickering in and out of visibilty due to the aliasing of such a low rez... and I thought to myself, "well on wednesday I'll be looking at a nice high rez 1680x1050 image."

So ya, this hurts. And for gameplay reasons.

[Faamecanic]

I would love to see more folks screenies confirming this issue. I have seen 1 persons screenies, and 2 or 3 more saying they have the same issue..... anyone?

[AVGWarhawk]

I would love to see more folks screenies confirming this issue. I have seen 1 persons screenies, and 2 or 3 more saying they have the same issue..... anyone?

Yes, more evidence is needed.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'll ask again, is it the interface meaning the dials and such on the bottom that will change to higher resolution? I don't know.


Yes, as clearly evidenced by the screen shot snippet that started this thread, the instruments and other "UI" elements are in the correct resolution, while the 3-D world components (you know, the stuff that *matters*) are in low rez and stretched to fit in the high rez window.

No doubt a fix for this will come out. But seriously are some of you going to dump SHIV because of resolution issues? Then go back to your desk duty! I dont care much whether zagged edges are all over my boat, tis really about the gameplay.

SHIV is v1.0 or might even be v0.09 so dont be quick to uninstall the game, wait and have faith in the dev's or modders

Just today, I was trying to get a good range on a large cargo, when the mast kept flickering in and out of visibilty due to the aliasing of such a low rez... and I thought to myself, "well on wednesday I'll be looking at a nice high rez 1680x1050 image."

So ya, this hurts. And for gameplay reasons.


What I'm getting at is this, the interface is changed to higher res but the 3D world is not change able. In the UBI forums the developer stated interface.

[The General]

How many in this thread have got sh4? EVERYBODY ELSE LAY OFF A MINUTE.

[RickC Sniper]

just a Widescreen LCD problem? If so then you need to make that clear.

And where the hell did you get the game? Its not even shipped yet.

Calm down. I never said I have the game. I can see the screenshots like everyone else.

I only stated that widescreens need to run in their native rez or they look crappy. My old games still look good at forced 4:3 (easily set in video card panel) sizing but they need to run at my monitor's resolution (not widescreen)to look good. If they don't have an option to run at my native resolution then they look better on my old CRT.


I'm not joining any lynching party, but If they advertise widescreen support the needed resolutions are implied. Everyone knows this.

I'll wait and let the dust settle before ordering this game. Perhaps it will be resolved.

[AVGWarhawk]

just a Widescreen LCD problem? If so then you need to make that clear.

And where the hell did you get the game? Its not even shipped yet.

Calm down. I never said I have the game. I can see the screenshots like everyone else.

I only stated that widescreens need to run in their native rez or they look crappy. My old games still look good at forced 4:3 (easily set in video card panel) sizing but they need to run at my monitor's resolution (not widescreen)to look good. If they don't have an option to run at my native resolution then they look better on my old CRT.


I'm not joining any lynching party, but If they advertise widescreen support the needed resolutions are implied. Everyone knows this.

I'll wait and let the dust settle before re-ordering this game. Perhaps it will be resolved.



Perhaps that is the issue. It supports higher resolutions but not on LCD widescreen monitors?

[The General]

Nobody on this thread even owns a copy of SH4, is that it?

[Ryan]

What I have read it is the interface that is adjustablet to higher resolutions. Is not the interface the gauges and buttons on the bottom?

I've just watched the interview video again. It's where he talks about improvements in regards to SH3. About the resolutions he says: "Another improvement to SH3 is that you can play in any resolution you want or your computer can handle".

Nowhere he says that it refers to interface gauges and buttons alone.. which IMO would also be silly if it's just the interface gauges and buttons but not the rendered area-- as this would matters most esp. without AA (higher res could make up for this).

Ryan

[evil666]

Perhaps it will be resolved.

you still believe in santa(in germany it's the christkind)? :know::cool:

let's imagine it's a bug and not a feature, they need to fix it as fast as pssoible. :nope:

[Deep Six]

Well I must say this is dissapointing for the big reso brigade, of which I used to be one of.....Had a CRT that went well over 1600X1200, now I have a viewsonic 1280X1040 but its superfast at 2ms refresh....

About the Reso being capped at SH3 levels....I'm betting that one of the very first mods that will make it's apperance will be a Resolution hack.....Yes it was done for SH3 and it will probably be done for SH4....Do NOT worry....I wish I could remember the modder but it was a great mod that let you run ANY reso after the mod was run, well not really a mod but a hack of a .dll...The main thing was you needed a program from Microsoft to actually start the hack process and once it was all done and you installed the provided d3d.dll and another small file....you could then open the .cfg and WRITE in ANY reso you wanted and voila....You had SH3 running in glorious 1600X1200 or any other res for that matter
With regards the NO FSAA..I'm sure again there will be a work around...Nvidia users will probably use nHancer and FORCE AA on the game.....Plus with every new version there always adding to the profile list, wouldn't be hard to get SH4 on there HDR+AA@16Q just like Oblivion....on a 8800GTX...

Early days yet.....I'm sticking with my order.(Delux Collectors) We have great modders here that can work up miracles......I BELIEVE IN THEM....

Deep Six

[Mud]

Hmm I've played SH1 for years and the ships were flat and a 2d control room with the full 16 colors.
Think I can handle 1024x768 and still can have fun with the game.

Mud

[tedhealy]

Well I must say this is dissapointing for the big reso brigade, of which I used to be one of.....Had a CRT that went well over 1600X1200, now I have a viewsonic 1280X1040 but its superfast at 2ms refresh....

About the Reso being capped at SH3 levels....I'm betting that one of the very first mods that will make it's apperance will be a Resolution hack.....Yes it was done for SH3 and it will probably be done for SH4....Do NOT worry....I wish I could remember the modder but it was a great mod that let you run ANY reso after the mod was run, well not really a mod but a hack of a .dll...The main thing was you needed a program from Microsoft to actually start the hack process and once it was all done and you installed the provided d3d.dll and another small file....you could then open the .cfg and WRITE in ANY reso you wanted and voila....You had SH3 running in glorious 1600X1200 or any other res for that matter
With regards the NO FSAA..I'm sure again there will be a work around...Nvidia users will probably use nHancer and FORCE AA on the game.....Plus with every new version there always adding to the profile list, wouldn't be hard to get SH4 on there HDR+AA@16Q just like Oblivion....on a 8800GTX...

Early days yet.....I'm sticking with my order.(Delux Collectors) We have great modders here that can work up miracles......I BELIEVE IN THEM....

Deep Six

Yes, here's the howto for sh3:

http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Display_Resolution

[malkuth74]

Nobody on this thread even owns a copy of SH4, is that it?

Yes, this is all a he said she said based off one screen shot.

[evil666]

Hmm I've played SH1 for years and the ships were flat and a 2d control room with the full 16 colors.
Think I can handle 1024x768 and still can have fun with the game.

Mud

for sure. but to miss higher resolutions ist not state of the art, not in the year 2007. :-?

[RickC Sniper]

just a Widescreen LCD problem? If so then you need to make that clear.

And where the hell did you get the game? Its not even shipped yet.

Calm down. I never said I have the game. I can see the screenshots like everyone else.

I only stated that widescreens need to run in their native rez or they look crappy. My old games still look good at forced 4:3 (easily set in video card panel) sizing but they need to run at my monitor's resolution (not widescreen)to look good. If they don't have an option to run at my native resolution then they look better on my old CRT.


I'm not joining any lynching party, but If they advertise widescreen support the needed resolutions are implied. Everyone knows this.

I'll wait and let the dust settle before ordering this game. Perhaps it will be resolved.



Perhaps that is the issue. It supports higher resolutions but not on LCD widescreen monitors?

I wish that were true, but based on the posted screenies only the interface is affected by changing game resolutions, type of monitor won't matter.

Let me clarify my statement. A 1024x768 game looks better on my old crt than my lcd. It is in fact quite crappy on my lcd.

I hope there is no misunderstandings.

[malkuth74]

Hmm I've played SH1 for years and the ships were flat and a 2d control room with the full 16 colors.
Think I can handle 1024x768 and still can have fun with the game.

Mud
for sure. but to miss higher resolutions ist not state of the art, not in the year 2007. :-?

Hmmm I think we are being invaded by UBI.com members. And we all know how they act over that way. Everyone that is complaining (except a few) are mostly brand new members. And I'm sure not going to trust someone named evil666. :rotfl:

[tedhealy]

Nobody on this thread even owns a copy of SH4, is that it?
Yes, this is all a he said she said based off one screen shot.

Also reported at the official forum

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921019045/m/1711066245

So at least 2 people have seen this, unless those 2 people are one in the same.

[longam]

Just a couple of systems to rate a game’s performance. I don’t think so.

[JasonSK]

Hardly 1 screen shot, I could post 50 of it, its 1024x768 stretched, distorted and blurred, period, the only way it wont bug you is if your freaking blind, or are locked at 1024x768 its a shame cause the effects are AWSOME.

im running at 1600x900 right now in a window to reduce it a bit, but its still really there, if I ran in a window at 1024x768 its nearly not noticible.. but whats the point of having widescreen..

[Captain Norman]

Why do you guys keep blaming UBI? UBI is the Publisher not the Developer. Rushing the Developer is not the problem. If it doesnt support FSAA then that was a Decision the Devs made not UBI.
Yes, BUT its the publishers job to make sure the final product is good, how could they let this slide?

[malkuth74]

Hardly 1 screen shot, I could post 50 of it, its 1024x768 stretched, distorted and blurred, period, the only way it wont bug you is if your freaking blind, or are locked at 1024x768 its a shame cause the effects are AWSOME

Were did you get the game? And are you the same guy that is complaining on UBI? If so is it possible it is an issue with your setup?

[Mud]

I'll give my honest opinion when I have SH4 which is hopefully tomorrow , but that said I'm prolly the old fart that rates a game more for playability than for resolution settings .... no pun intended.

Mud

[evil666]

Hmmm I think we are being invaded by UBI.com members. And we all know how they act over that way. Everyone that is complaining (except a few) are mostly brand new members. And I'm sure not going to trust someone named evil666. :rotfl:
mh, you're not right. i got the link from a german gamer forum. to hear from this issue makes many people doubtful, me too. so i decided to register here to have my say. maybe you can imagine that. i have nothing to do with ubi.com. :cry:

[OneTinSoldier]

Well I must say this is dissapointing for the big reso brigade, of which I used to be one of.....Had a CRT that went well over 1600X1200, now I have a viewsonic 1280X1040 but its superfast at 2ms refresh....

About the Reso being capped at SH3 levels....I'm betting that one of the very first mods that will make it's apperance will be a Resolution hack.....Yes it was done for SH3 and it will probably be done for SH4....Do NOT worry....I wish I could remember the modder but it was a great mod that let you run ANY reso after the mod was run, well not really a mod but a hack of a .dll...The main thing was you needed a program from Microsoft to actually start the hack process and once it was all done and you installed the provided d3d.dll and another small file....you could then open the .cfg and WRITE in ANY reso you wanted and voila....You had SH3 running in glorious 1600X1200 or any other res for that matter
With regards the NO FSAA..I'm sure again there will be a work around...Nvidia users will probably use nHancer and FORCE AA on the game.....Plus with every new version there always adding to the profile list, wouldn't be hard to get SH4 on there HDR+AA@16Q just like Oblivion....on a 8800GTX...

Early days yet.....I'm sticking with my order.(Delux Collectors) We have great modders here that can work up miracles......I BELIEVE IN THEM....

Deep Six

Isn't all that hack does is allow UPSCALING the 1024x768 resolution to higher res? Does that hack actually make the 3D Rendered world a higher res? I mean, all SHIII shipped with was... 1024x768, nothing else. I don't see how the hack could change that. :hmm:

[stabiz]

Hmmm I think we are being invaded by UBI.com members. And we all know how they act over that way. Everyone that is complaining (except a few) are mostly brand new members. And I'm sure not going to trust someone named evil666. :rotfl:
mh, you're not right. i got the link from a german gamer forum. to hear from this issue makes many people doubtful, me too. so i decided to register here to have my say. maybe you can imagine that. i have nothing to do with ubi.com. :cry:

Dont listen to him, evil. The subsim-is-best-I-am-looking-down-my-nose-on-anybody-else routine is getting old. (I am not from the Ubi forums either, by the way, original subsimmer)

[malkuth74]

Nobody on this thread even owns a copy of SH4, is that it?
Yes, this is all a he said she said based off one screen shot.
Also reported at the official forum

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921019045/m/1711066245

So at least 2 people have seen this, unless those 2 people are one in the same.

If you bother to read the thread you are pointing me too. You will see that its a guy saying that his friend that is Dislexic says that its not turning up. But someone else in the thread says his is fine. Go figure. If your trying to prove a point you chose the wrong thread. :rotfl:

[marius]

Lucky I don't have a widescreen LCD!

But if this is how the game looks in widescreen... in 2007... then I am speechless.

[malkuth74]

Hmmm I think we are being invaded by UBI.com members. And we all know how they act over that way. Everyone that is complaining (except a few) are mostly brand new members. And I'm sure not going to trust someone named evil666. :rotfl:
mh, you're not right. i got the link from a german gamer forum. to hear from this issue makes many people doubtful, me too. so i decided to register here to have my say. maybe you can imagine that. i have nothing to do with ubi.com. :cry:
Dont listen to him, evil. The subsim-is-best-I-am-looking-down-my-nose-on-anybody-else routine is getting old. (I am not from the Ubi forums either, by the way, original subsimmer)
Stabiz, if you don't want SH4 don't buy it. I still am. You guys can keep complaining all you want about a game that has not shipped, you don't have yet. Nor have seen. And keep quoting threads from ubi, from a guy that says his friend in states said so and so. Be my guest. :arrgh!: Have fun. :p

[stabiz]

Well I must say this is dissapointing for the big reso brigade, of which I used to be one of.....Had a CRT that went well over 1600X1200, now I have a viewsonic 1280X1040 but its superfast at 2ms refresh....

About the Reso being capped at SH3 levels....I'm betting that one of the very first mods that will make it's apperance will be a Resolution hack.....Yes it was done for SH3 and it will probably be done for SH4....Do NOT worry....I wish I could remember the modder but it was a great mod that let you run ANY reso after the mod was run, well not really a mod but a hack of a .dll...The main thing was you needed a program from Microsoft to actually start the hack process and once it was all done and you installed the provided d3d.dll and another small file....you could then open the .cfg and WRITE in ANY reso you wanted and voila....You had SH3 running in glorious 1600X1200 or any other res for that matter
With regards the NO FSAA..I'm sure again there will be a work around...Nvidia users will probably use nHancer and FORCE AA on the game.....Plus with every new version there always adding to the profile list, wouldn't be hard to get SH4 on there HDR+AA@16Q just like Oblivion....on a 8800GTX...

Early days yet.....I'm sticking with my order.(Delux Collectors) We have great modders here that can work up miracles......I BELIEVE IN THEM....

Deep Six

All that hack does is allow UPSCALING the 1024x768 resolution to higher res isn't it? Does that hack actually make the 3D Rendered world a higher res? I mean, all SHIII shipped with was... 1024x768, nothing else. I don't see how the hack could change that. :hmm:

Dunno, but here is an unedited screenshot in 1600x1200 from SH3:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/9199/sh32006110901210075ub3.th.jpg (http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh32006110901210075ub3.jpg)

[tedhealy]

Nobody on this thread even owns a copy of SH4, is that it?
Yes, this is all a he said she said based off one screen shot.
Also reported at the official forum

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921019045/m/1711066245

So at least 2 people have seen this, unless those 2 people are one in the same.
If you bother to read the thread you are pointing me too. You will see that its a guy saying that his friend that is Dislexic says that its not turning up. But someone else in the thread says his is fine. Go figure. If your trying to prove a point you chose the wrong thread. :rotfl:

I'm not trying to prove anything. My pre-order is still pre-ordered. I'm just searching for evidence of other people having the problem. I'm searching for a common thread between those that have the problem. Maybe it's the graphic card, or the operating system, or the driver, or whatever. I just don't want it to be the game.

[Iron Knight]

I just cancelled my pre-order today.I'll sit on the sidelines for a few months and see how it works out.I'll be in the Med trying to mixed it up with the Royal Navy.

Thank's for the reviews and opinions Gents.

[malkuth74]

Nobody on this thread even owns a copy of SH4, is that it?
Yes, this is all a he said she said based off one screen shot.
Also reported at the official forum

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921019045/m/1711066245

So at least 2 people have seen this, unless those 2 people are one in the same.
If you bother to read the thread you are pointing me too. You will see that its a guy saying that his friend that is Dislexic says that its not turning up. But someone else in the thread says his is fine. Go figure. If your trying to prove a point you chose the wrong thread. :rotfl:
I'm not trying to prove anything. My pre-order is still pre-ordered. I'm just searching for evidence of other people having the problem. I'm searching for a common thread between those that have the problem. Maybe it's the graphic card, or the operating system, or the driver, or whatever. I just don't want it to be the game.

I don't either. But to be fair the game is not released yet. Maybe wait a few days to be safe when forum members start getting it? I'm sure by wen you will have all the reviews you need to make up your mind. I will post about it if its true, trust me.

[Rykaird]

We're what - 36 hours from having a number of reviews, on different machines and monitors, and more screenshots than we can possibly handle.

I'm not disappointed in the game - don't know enough about it yet - but I can't say I'm impressed with some of the posts today. Used to be the best forum I've ever participated in. Hopefully that spirit will return.

I'm going to the Atlantic, see you all in three days.

[tedhealy]

I don't either. But to be fair the game is not released yet. Maybe wait a few days to be safe when forum members start getting it? I'm sure by wen you will have all the reviews you need to make up your mind. I will post about it if its true, trust me.

Yes the game is not released yet, but enough people have it to make things worrisome.

It will be in my hands wednesday afternoon by the grace of overnight shipping either way, I'm just a bit concerned as I have a widescreen lcd. While I will be rather upset if the game fakes widescreen support, by no means will I return or cancel my pre-order over that issue.

[evil666]

@malkuth74

guess i misunterstood your problem. i said i canceled my pre-order, just don't want to buy it, when it is more than a pre-release thread (or myth) on subsim.com. ;)

when the guys in romania fix it soon, i would still buy it when it's already launched. but it's no reason to be so harshly here. :down:

[Deep Six]

Tin soldier, nope the mod injected a d3d.dll(Direct3D) that changed the reso completely.....Not just upscaling but TRUE resolution.....

Deep Six

[Sulikate]

I havent seen anti-aliasing that horrendous in a game in over 10 years.
100% agreed.:nope::cry:

[Snakeeyes]

This looks more like a painting rather than an in game pic. Sometimes the way SH 4 is shown the more I'm dissapointed ( that's sometimes :-? ).
BUT WHAT RESOLUTION IS THIS SET AS? If it's on the friggin' moon then my framerates will be the footspeed of Peppo the Dwarf.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/SH4Sub.jpg
BUT WHAT RESOLUTION IS THIS SET AS? If it's on the friggin' moon then my framerates will be the footspeed of Peppo the Dwarf.

[malkuth74]

Ok I'm doing a little test. Maybe this test doesnt mean much I don't know. But basically I took SHIII and shut off AA in my Drivers. Since SHIII uses 1024*768 and people in this thread are saying that the 3d In SHIV only uses 1024*768 they should be comparable. Now to test this I have an image at 1024*768 taken from sime (jpg might downgrade a little) And a second pic of the same picture Resized to 800*600. You tell me what you think?

First Pic 1024*768
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8830/shiiiyj3.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shiiiyj3.jpg)

Again at 800*600
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/9092/shiiion8.th.jpg (http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shiiion8.jpg)

Another Pic 1024*768
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/194/shiii2no5.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shiii2no5.jpg)

Same at 800*600
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7687/shiii2ou6.th.jpg (http://img391.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shiii2ou6.jpg)

[XanderF]

Just a thought, here, but...maybe...I dare not hope, but MAYBE...could it be...

Everyone remembers the .DLL for SH3 that allowed resolutions other than the 'locked-in' 1024x768 (http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Display_Resolution), right?

As the DLL is changing how the rendering occurs...it SHOULD be possible for something like this to resolve the FSAA limitations.

And DXTweaker allows for tweaks in the rendering engine to fix issues with Jane's F/A-18 (http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=15&Number=2147206&Searchpage=2&Main=232167&Words=Xander+Fulton&topic=0&Search=true#Post2147206) on modern systems with video cards and FSAA.

Can anyone with Sh4 do some exploring in this area?

[DirtyHarry3033]

Nobody on this thread even owns a copy of SH4, is that it?
Can't speak for anyone else, but at this moment you're right, I don't own it. Tomorrow when it's released in US, I will, if I can find a copy. I'll try hard to overlook any faults I find and hope that patches and the mods to come will fix any probs ;)

But you gotta admit, the OP's screenie looks pretty bad. Only one of 2 possibilities I can see:
It's how the game really looks. Not promising.
The OP took a lo-rez shot, and a hi-rez shot, then cut-pasted the hi-rez HUD onto the lo-rez 3D world. Why would he go to all that trouble? Don't make sense...At any rate, I'll find out tomorrow, if I can find a copy. As long as the gameplay is absorbing, that's really all I care about. Awesome eye-candy is cool, but it don't make a game really. The 2 most engrossing games I ever played were F-19 Stealth Fighter (1988) and Silent Service II (1990) on my Commodore Amiga 1000 and I bet the young guys here wouldn't give either a 2nd look. 300x200 rez, 32 colors, blocky graphics, no way they would ;) But the gameplay was fantastic!

That said, I'll go on to say it will be a little disappointing if UBI is upscaling 1024x728. Not a deal-breaker for me, because I want it ;) But a disappointment. If the gameplay is good, I'll be happy. Because it's the gameplay that counts, right?

[malkuth74]

This is a pic of SHIV from Gronbeck lastnight. Look in the Screenshot forum and you decide if the pics are faked by Downgraded a 1024*768 pic to smaller one to hide the Jaggies And the Resolution of the game.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8647/craft2pu8.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=craft2pu8.jpg)

I also noted that the OP uses a Gif for his screen shots. Which can cause some problems.

[XanderF]

From the Ubi-topic that XanderF(-ulton?) posted:

From the reports I've read the 3d world resolution is locked at 1024x768 only the lower menu and other menus gets to higher resolutions.

So upping the res will not help with the Jaggies one bit since the 3d world is stuck at 1024x768!

The issue isn't AA.
Ubisoft saw wisdom in keeping SH4 locked at 1024x768. Rather then natively support today's contemporary resolutions, they choose to simply upscale the antiquated 1024x768 to higher resolutions.

If true, that's....quite shocking. Not hard to believe, lots of older games do that, but...wow.

That would explain why the aliasing looks so BAD in the screenshots, too.

[Sgian Dubh]

:roll:

No doubt a fix for this will come out. But seriously are some of you going to dump SHIV because of resolution issues? Then go back to your desk duty! I dont care much whether zagged edges are all over my boat, tis really about the gameplay.

SHIV is v1.0 or might even be v0.09 so dont be quick to uninstall the game, wait and have faith in the dev's or modders.:)


What he said. If the guts are great, I can overlook a good deal of stuff on the surface.

[flintlock]

the mod injected a d3d.dll(Direct3D) that changed the reso completely.....Not just upscaling but TRUE resolution..... Unfortunately that's not true. Widescreen resolutions were still distorted (stretched) to accomadate 16:10 aspect ratio resolutions. The dll hack was better than nothing, but it absolutely didn't provide true native widescreen resolution. Nothing short of the devs painstakingly engineering and coding that into their engine could accomplish that.

[cherbert]

This is a pic of SHIV from Gronbeck lastnight. Look in the Screenshot forum and you decide if the pics are faked by Downgraded a 1024*768 pic to smaller one to hide the Jaggies And the Resolution of the game.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8647/craft2pu8.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=craft2pu8.jpg)

I also noted that the OP uses a Gif for his screen shots. Which can cause some problems.

That is a 1024 x 768 pic. The majority of this discussion is regarding widescreen hi-res configurations.

[StandingCow]

http://www.demowarp.se/video/sh4.wmv

That video is from the sticky above. You can see the lack of AA in the entire thing.

[malkuth74]

This is a pic of SHIV from Gronbeck lastnight. Look in the Screenshot forum and you decide if the pics are faked by Downgraded a 1024*768 pic to smaller one to hide the Jaggies And the Resolution of the game.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8647/craft2pu8.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=craft2pu8.jpg)

I also noted that the OP uses a Gif for his screen shots. Which can cause some problems.
That is a 1024 x 768 pic. The majority of this discussion is regarding widescreen hi-res configurations.

It is? But if SHIV only has 1024 *768 then the screens should be simular. Even with scaled down. They don't look simular to me. The question in the thread is if the 3d Part of the game is actually 1024*768. If that is true then their should be some simularities between My pics from SHIII and The pics of SHIV.

[tedhealy]

Or the other answer is all these sh4 shots we've seen that appear to have AA have been touched up...even though the official forum faq denied it.

I call conspiracy :rotfl:

[StandingCow]

From the Ubi-topic that XanderF(-ulton?) posted:

From the reports I've read the 3d world resolution is locked at 1024x768 only the lower menu and other menus gets to higher resolutions.

So upping the res will not help with the Jaggies one bit since the 3d world is stuck at 1024x768!
The issue isn't AA.
Ubisoft saw wisdom in keeping SH4 locked at 1024x768. Rather then natively support today's contemporary resolutions, they choose to simply upscale the antiquated 1024x768 to higher resolutions.
If true, that's....quite shocking. Not hard to believe, lots of older games do that, but...wow.

That would explain why the aliasing looks so BAD in the screenshots, too.

Yea... this is really odd.. when you upscale anything it gets worse looking.. .. I am going to wait till I get the game and actually see it before I start to be disappointed though.

[ParaB]

The screenshots on this page are clearly not taken with FSAA. They look like 1024x768 shots that have been resized to around 800x600 resolution. Of course, if you scale down the whole pic, the jaggies are scaled down, too. And JPEG compression further decreases image detail, blurring the jaggies.

So far I haven't seen a single screenshot of SH4 with enabled FSAA.

[RickC Sniper]

Is there anything (bug) that could be preventing the game from accepting the new selected resolutions? In the bugs thread one user said his higher resolutions had to be reset every time he started the game. It also did not remember his sound settings.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/RickC/sh4.jpg



That setting says game resolution not interface resolution. I have to believe something is just amiss here. And yes, I do believe in Santa Clause. :p

[tedhealy]

This is a pic of SHIV from Gronbeck lastnight. Look in the Screenshot forum and you decide if the pics are faked by Downgraded a 1024*768 pic to smaller one to hide the Jaggies And the Resolution of the game.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8647/craft2pu8.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=craft2pu8.jpg)

I also noted that the OP uses a Gif for his screen shots. Which can cause some problems.
That is a 1024 x 768 pic. The majority of this discussion is regarding widescreen hi-res configurations.
It is? But if SHIV only has 1024 *768 then the screens should be simular. Even with scaled down. They don't look simular to me. The question in the thread is if the 3d Part of the game is actually 1024*768. If that is true then their should be some simularities between My pics from SHIII and The pics of SHIV.

If you play a game locked to 1024x768 on a monitor that displays 1024x768, it's not going to look too bad. You aren't going to notice some of the jaggies.

If you play that same game on a LCD widescreen at 1680x1050 or whatever res, that image is going to be scaled up, either by the monitor or the game. When that happens, the minor imperfections hardly noticed on the 1024x768 monitor willl suddenly become huge and quite unsightly.

If you want to do a picture test, take a non AA 1024x768 sh3 shot and resize it to something much larger.

This is very similar to HD tvs. If you have a HD tv and watch SD content, it won't look so good. If you watch that same SD content on a SD tv it will look much better. Why? Because the HD tv has to increase the size of that SD content thereby blowing up any of the small imperfections that went unnoticed on the SD tv.

[Snakeeyes]

Or the other answer is all these sh4 shots we've seen that appear to have AA have been touched up...even though the official forum faq denied it.

I call conspiracy :rotfl:

I think you're right.

[tedhealy]

Is there anything (bug) that could be preventing the game from accepting the new selected resolutions? In the bugs thread one user said his higher resolutions had to be reset every time he started the game. It also did not remember his sound settings.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/RickC/sh4.jpg



That setting says game resolution not interface resolution. I have to believe something is just amiss here. And yes, I do believe in Santa Clause. :p

There's a problem with that though. The interface is clearly at a higher resolution while the game engine's 3d world is not at that higher resolution. Unless the screenshots are faked or there is a setup or simple bug problem, the game is faking support for higher resolutions. It would be the lazy approach to higher resolution support, just make the interface capable of higher resolutions, but simply scale the 3d world from 1024x768 to whatever higher res you want.

[malkuth74]

This is a pic of SHIV from Gronbeck lastnight. Look in the Screenshot forum and you decide if the pics are faked by Downgraded a 1024*768 pic to smaller one to hide the Jaggies And the Resolution of the game.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8647/craft2pu8.th.jpg (http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=craft2pu8.jpg)

I also noted that the OP uses a Gif for his screen shots. Which can cause some problems.
That is a 1024 x 768 pic. The majority of this discussion is regarding widescreen hi-res configurations.
It is? But if SHIV only has 1024 *768 then the screens should be simular. Even with scaled down. They don't look simular to me. The question in the thread is if the 3d Part of the game is actually 1024*768. If that is true then their should be some simularities between My pics from SHIII and The pics of SHIV.
If you play a game locked to 1024x768 on a monitor that displays 1024x768, it's not going to look too bad. You aren't going to notice some of the jaggies.

If you play that same game on a LCD widescreen at 1680x1050 or whatever res, that image is going to be scaled up, either by the monitor or the game. When that happens, the minor imperfections hardly noticed on the 1024x768 monitor willl suddenly become huge and quite unsightly.

If you want to do a picture test, take a non AA 1024x768 sh3 shot and resize it to something much larger.

This is very similar to HD tvs. If you have a HD tv and watch SD content, it won't look so good. If you watch that same SD content on a SD tv it will look much better. Why? Because the HD tv has to increase the size of that SD content thereby blowing up any of the small imperfections that went unnoticed on the SD tv.

Ok but the problem is that we all want to run it at a higher res since SHIV does not have AA. Now is the problem only going to happen to Widescreen (which funny was my original question 2 pages back) or is it going to effect all Monitors if we want a higher res?

[flintlock]

Is there anything (bug) that could be preventing the game from accepting the new selected resolutions? In the bugs thread one user said his higher resolutions had to be reset every time he started the game. I truly hope something is simply amiss here. Unfortunately, if this is working as intended, that drop-down resolution selection menu may simply be telling the engine to take this 1024x768 fixed resolution and scale it to selection X.

[XanderF]

Yea... this is really odd.. when you upscale anything it gets worse looking.. .. I am going to wait till I get the game and actually see it before I start to be disappointed though.

Oh, wow, some very damning screenshots over in this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107923&page=2).

So...

1) No FSAA
2) Locked at 1024x768 '3d world'

AwesomeR!!1!ONE

[StandingCow]

Yea... this is really odd.. when you upscale anything it gets worse looking.. .. I am going to wait till I get the game and actually see it before I start to be disappointed though.
Oh, wow, some very damning screenshots over in this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107923&page=2).

So...

1) No FSAA
2) Locked at 1024x768 '3d world'

AwesomeR!!1!ONE

Yea, thats really interesting.. the menu is changing res, but not the game world... should be really interesting to find out if this is a bug or not.

[Sectus]

This effect isn't limited to resolutions above 1024x768.

Here's some screenshots I took while playing at 1024x768:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4781/sh4img193200773814687zn6.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img193200773814687zn6.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/558/sh4img19320077433328zc8.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img19320077433328zc8.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2332/sh4img193200775042734bb3.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img193200775042734bb3.jpg)
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/1937/sh4img193200775148843bl1.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img193200775148843bl1.jpg)http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2849/sh4img193200775228531mo3.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh4img193200775228531mo3.jpg)

Notice the plane on the second screenshot and the boat in the fourth screenshot. You'll notice clearly that it's even upscaled when playing in 1024x768. Water in the horizon also gets a rather ugly shimmering effect because of this.

I think this is actually a feature of the game. Hellgate: London obviously uses the same effect for most of its screenshots, and if I remember correctly Deus Ex 2 and some other games used the same effect. It's an attempt to smoothen the graphics and hide jaggies. But unfortunately it also removes a ton of detail from the scene and adds ugly shimmering.

I really really realy hope Ubi will add a patch which makes this toggleable (the game needs a patch for other reasons as well, the game is quite buggy).

All in all though, I think some people here are over-reacting. Sure, it's an ugly effect and it would better if it weren't here... but the game still looks ton better than SH3 and the gameplay itself seems much more fun than SH3. I don't regret my purchase of the game, I'm hoping this graphical effect will be togglable in a future patch but I can live with it anyway.

[jeff lackey]

Well, when I take a screenshot and look at it in ACDSee or Photoshop, the info is that it is 1024x768, even when I've "set" the resolution higher.

Also, when I set the resolution higher in the options, then restart the game, the resolution (as well as the music setting) is always back to 1024x768, and music on. The gameplay settings are fine, and the graphic options (other than resolution) stick.

[tedhealy]

Ok but the problem is that we all want to run it at a higher res since SHIV does not have AA. Now is the problem only going to happen to Widescreen (which funny was my original question 2 pages back) or is it going to effect all Monitors if we want a higher res?
Making an assumption (and we all know the problem with assumptions) that this is indeed the problem and they are faking higher res support, then anyone *running* the game with a significantly larger resolution than 1024x768 will notice it.

If you have a crt monitor and run the game at 1024x768, the monitor will actually draw 1024x768 and you may not notice things so much.

If you have that same CRT and run at 1900x1200, you will notice it.

What hampers LCD now is that even if we run the game at 1024x768, the monitor will upscale to the native resolution of the monitor which will be much higher than 1024x768. So things won't look so good. Many monitors have an option at 1:1 scale to disable that upscaling, but then you are stuck playing the game in a little tiny box on a huge monitor.

[evil666]

@Sectus

what kind and type of monitor do you use?

[malkuth74]

Well, when I take a screenshot and look at it in ACDSee or Photoshop, the info is that it is 1024x768, even when I've "set" the resolution higher.

Also, when I set the resolution higher in the options, then restart the game, the resolution (as well as the music setting) is always back to 1024x768, and music on. The gameplay settings are fine, and the graphic options (other than resolution) stick.

Hey jeff change it in the Cfg and see if it sticks. Maybe if this is true its just another crappy bug, and its not sticking in the CFG file.

[Snakeeyes]

http://www.demowarp.se/video/sh4.wmv

That video is from the sticky above. You can see the lack of AA in the entire thing.

Man 'O man.... did you see the deckgun?!!! AWFUL! LOOKS LIKE ITS MADE OUT OF LEGGOS!

Even the characters are blocky! I thought we were out of the Atari age!!!!!!!!!!!

I wanted SILENT HUNTER IV NOT FREAKIN' PONG!

[StandingCow]

http://www.demowarp.se/video/sh4.wmv

That video is from the sticky above. You can see the lack of AA in the entire thing.
Man 'O man.... did you see the deckgun?!!! AWFUL! LOOKS LIKE ITS MADE OUT OF LEGGOS!

Even the characters are blocky! I thought we were out of the Atari age!!!!!!!!!!!

I wanted SILENT HUNTER IV NOT FREAKIN' PONG!

Yea, I agree... but on the flip side, as long as the gameplay is good, I don't care about graphics all that much, hell, silent hunter was fun on nintendo.

But my issue is them stating otherwise... saying the screen shots posted were not touched up, the entire resolution thing... but those could just be bugs.

Meh, guess I will find out when I get it.

[cappy70]

Wooow,,what reactions over some screenshots and 85% doesn't have the game yet and everybody expect the same reactions/effects to their own hardware no matter what config. compared to whatever hardware produced the screenshots..........WOW,,and then everything get hanged up on AA, that is really connected to what-graphic-card-do-I-have.

I know that a lot of people jump out of the boat if the slightest /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ is visible and it's not --------------------------.

I have friends that react the same about the their home-sound systems if a DVD movie doesnt's sound as good as the latest movie they watched.

[OneTinSoldier]

Wooow,,what reactions over some screenshots and 85% doesn't have the game yet and everybody expect the same reactions/effects to their own hardware no matter what config. compared to whatever hardware produced the screenshots..........WOW,,and then everything get hanged up on AA, that is really connected to what-graphic-card-do-I-have.

I know that a lot of people jump out of the boat if the slightest /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ is visible and it's not --------------------------.

I have friends that react the same about the their home-sound systems if a DVD movie doesnt's sound as good as the latest movie they watched.

Yeah, I guess we should all just hand over our money to Ubi like sheep, no matter what kind of wool they're trying to pull over our eyes. :roll:

[malkuth74]

Wooow,,what reactions over some screenshots and 85% doesn't have the game yet and everybody expect the same reactions/effects to their own hardware no matter what config. compared to whatever hardware produced the screenshots..........WOW,,and then everything get hanged up on AA, that is really connected to what-graphic-card-do-I-have.

I know that a lot of people jump out of the boat if the slightest /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ is visible and it's not --------------------------.

I have friends that react the same about the their home-sound systems if a DVD movie doesnt's sound as good as the latest movie they watched.

Yeah, I guess we should all just hand over our money to Ubi like sheep, no matter what kind of wool they're trying to pull over our eyes. :roll:

Ever play dangerous waters? Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste for different wools. :rotfl:

[Fer32]

I can confirm this also.
The 3d game is fixed at max 1024X768.
Buying SH4 must be my worst gaming experience ever. Bye bye SH4

:roll:

No doubt a fix for this will come out. But seriously are some of you going to dump SHIV because of resolution issues? Then go back to your desk duty! I dont care much whether zagged edges are all over my boat, tis really about the gameplay.

SHIV is v1.0 or might even be v0.09 so dont be quick to uninstall the game, wait and have faith in the dev's or modders.:)

Just what I was going to say, some people just read the bad news and inmediately cancel orders! How many of you would have to order it again because of this bug that I am sure will be fixed very soon. Do we have a lot of Sub sims to choose?, so take it easy and play a game that has much more gameplay to offer that just jaggies.

[tedhealy]

If this issue is not a bug, then all of this could have been avoided with ubi stating that while the game supports resolutions higher than 1024x768, the 3d engine will scale to that resolution. Instead it's left out there that the game supports higher resolutions without actually clarifying that it's just the 2d interface that supports higher resolutions. What else are people going to assume other than the game actually runs in higher resolutions like nearly every other game released today? I can live with the jaggies, I'm just miffed that we were given the scent that the game would be hi-res when it appears that it is not.

[malkuth74]

If this issue is not a bug, then all of this could have been avoided with ubi stating that while the game supports resolutions higher than 1024x768, the 3d engine will scale to that resolution. Instead it's left out there that the game supports higher resolutions without actually clarifying that it's just the 2d interface that supports higher resolutions. What else are people going to assume other than the game actually runs in higher resolutions like nearly every other game released today? I can live with the jaggies, I'm just miffed that we were given the scent that the game would be hi-res when it appears that it is not.

That doesn't make any sense though. Why have interface at higher res? Whats the point? Why would they do that? It doesn't make any sense.

[evil666]

Ever play dangerous waters? Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste for different wools. :rotfl:

thanks to all the fan boys out there, who are going to buy everything in every quality. maybe thats a reason for software products getting worster, and worster. the pubs have no remorse for publishing betas and they don't care at all, why should them, they know some "sheeps" swallow everything! :know:

[tedhealy]

If this issue is not a bug, then all of this could have been avoided with ubi stating that while the game supports resolutions higher than 1024x768, the 3d engine will scale to that resolution. Instead it's left out there that the game supports higher resolutions without actually clarifying that it's just the 2d interface that supports higher resolutions. What else are people going to assume other than the game actually runs in higher resolutions like nearly every other game released today? I can live with the jaggies, I'm just miffed that we were given the scent that the game would be hi-res when it appears that it is not.
That doesn't make any sense though. Why have interface at higher res? Whats the point? Why would they do that? It doesn't make any sense.
2 reasons:

1 Making the interface support higher-res would be many times easier than making the 3d world support higher res.

2 if you are going to make the game world of 1024x768 scale to a higher res, forcing the interface to do so will make text very hard to read (or at least very ugly). Therefore you need to actually have the interface support a higher res and not just fake it by scaling it up.

[flintlock]

Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste... Fair enough and quite true.

What some people fail to grasp is while the graphics in SH4 look to be stunning, everyone would appreciate that the graphics maintain integrity on their hardware. Currently, it appears this may not be the case for those with widescreens and others running their software at contemporary resolutions. Built in native support for larger resolutions are what people are expecting. This is accomplished when developers engineer their game engine to natively support higher resolutions: not by taking an antiquated 17-year old 1024x768 4:3 XGA resolution and simply scaling it upwards. This is a quick fix and will work, but at the expense of quality, and in fact will look terrible.

I'm reserving judgement on this as I don't have the game and am convinced something must be amiss. Until I witness it for myself or read Ubisoft state otherwise, I refuse to believe they would intentionally design a 2007 "A" title in this manner.

The jury is still out.

[Reece]

Could someone with a copy of SH4 please post a picture with, and without the hollywood setting please, same view ofcourse.:yep:

[malkuth74]

Ever play dangerous waters? Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste for different wools. :rotfl:
thanks to all the fan boys out there, who are going to buy everything in every quality. maybe thats a reason for software products getting worster, and worster. the pubs have no remorse for publishing betas and they don't care at all, why should them, they know some "sheeps" swallow everything! :know:

Fanboy? I have bought only 1 game this year. Addon to Galatic Civs. So no I don't buy just anything. Sorry.

Are you sure your not from the UBI forum? They talk like that alot. :hmm:

[evil666]

Fanboy? I have bought only 1 game this year. Addon to Galatic Civs. So no I don't buy just anything. Sorry.

Are you sure your not from the UBI forum? They talk like that alot. :hmm:
hihi. anyhow, sure not. :lol:

no one in ubi forums speaks german (ok, who knows?), if you ask me, i'll give you a taste of my native skills in my favourite language. :know:

[OneTinSoldier]

Ever play dangerous waters? Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste for different wools. :rotfl:
Yep, I own Dangerous Waters. Bought it when it first came out with the 575 page manual. Sure, the game doesn't have the greatest graphics, but at least it supports Anti-Aliasing(forced) so I don't have to look at jaggy and shimmering crap all over the place!

If I want jaggies and shimmering then I will go back to playing games that are over ten years old. When puchasing present day games, that is not acceptable to me. For the people that find that acceptable, fine. Buy SHIV and enjoy!

But more than anything, I am realizing this comes down to a feeling of trust. When seeing the screenshot of the 'Graphic Setting' interface with a pull-down menu showing multiple resolutions for 'GAME RESOLUTION', and then finding out from users that you are not actually getting that resolution but are instead getting a 'scaled up from lower res' resolution, is the point where I realize they are trying to deceive me to get my money. That not only does not sit right with me, it makes me angry! :mad:

They also said the game would use Imperial units, not the metric system.


As I said, I'm starting to realize this is coming down more to a matter of trust, and there is a point where I start drawing the line with whom I'm willing trust when it comes to spending my money. For me, they have crossed the line. If somehow I find out later on that this has all been some kind of mistake and we have not been decieved then I will apologize and they will get my money.

[Onkel Neal]

My Samsung has a native res of 1280x1024....so I really did not see anything weird. But....this is nasty :-?

My 19" Samsung 931B runs at 1280x1024, too. I use the Radeon 1650 Pro. I guess either I am used to this and didn't notice, or it doesn't look that bad on my screen.

DragonRR1, which mission is that? I will take a screen and see how it looks on my system.

[nhall70]

Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste... Fair enough and quite true.

What some people fail to grasp is while the graphics in SH4 look to be stunning, everyone would appreciate that the graphics maintain integrity on their hardware. Currently, it appears this may not be the case for those with widescreens and others running their software at contemporary resolutions. Built in native support for larger resolutions are what people are expecting. This is accomplished when developers engineer their game engine to natively support higher resolutions: not by taking an antiquated 17-year old 1024x768 4:3 XGA resolution and simply scaling it upwards. This is a quick fix and will work, but at the expense of quality, and in fact will look terrible.

I'm reserving judgement on this as I don't have the game and am convinced something must be amiss. Until I witness it for myself or read Ubisoft state otherwise, I refuse to believe they would intentionally design a 2007 "A" title in this manner.

The jury is still out.

Yea, it really is hard to believe. I'm still waiting for someone to deliver the good news that this is not the case. However, I'm beginning to think that Ubisoft is capable of almost anything.

I think this may be a very cold, calculated move by Ubisoft to try and put an end to complaints about frame-rate and poor performance. Lock the game at 1024x768 and disallow FSAA...problem solved. Right?

They have been SOOOO quiet about questions regarding these issues in their recent games. They take all of us for fools. Actually, as a group we are fools, so Ubisoft will probably win. Despite this shameless behavior, they may very well sell 200,000 copies of SH4 which only teaches them to do it again.

[Onkel Neal]

Ever play dangerous waters? Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste for different wools. :rotfl:

thanks to all the fan boys out there, who are going to buy everything in every quality. maybe thats a reason for software products getting worster, and worster. the pubs have no remorse for publishing betas and they don't care at all, why should them, they know some "sheeps" swallow everything! :know:

Ok, don't start insulting people here. You're not going to play SH4, that's ok, go your own way.

Neal

[evil666]

Ok, don't start insulting people here. You're not going to play SH4, that's ok, go your own way.

Neal
no no, please unterstand me, it is not my intention to insult someone. i mean it in a very general way. :cool:

[nhall70]

Ever play dangerous waters? Not everyone that is a fan of these type of games play for just the graphics. But I guess everyone has different taste for different wools. :rotfl:
Yep, I own Dangerous Waters. Bought it when it first came out with the 575 page manual. Sure, the game doesn't have the greatest graphics, but at least it supports Anti-Aliasing(forced) so I don't have to look at jaggy and shimmering crap all over the place!

If I want jaggies and shimmering then I will go back to playing games that are over ten years old. When puchasing present day games, that is not acceptable to me. For the people that find that acceptable, fine. Buy SHIV and enjoy!

But more than anything, I am realizing this comes down to a feeling of trust. When seeing the screenshot of the 'Graphic Setting' interface with a pull-down menu showing multiple resolutions for 'GAME RESOLUTION', and then finding out from users that you are not actually getting that resolution, is the point where I realize they are trying to deceive me to get my money. That not only does not sit right with me, it makes me angry! :mad:

They also said the game would use Imperial units, not the metric system.


As I said, I'm starting to realize this is coming down more to a matter of trust, and there is a point where I start drawing the line with whom I'm willing trust when it comes to spending my money. For me, they have crossed the line. If somehow I find out later on that this has all been some kind of mistake and we have not been decieved then I will apologize and they will get my money.

Well said.

If this turns out to be true, they have crossed a line that no other publisher has ever crossed before. They have set a dangerous precedent in the game industry and the game industry will be worse for it.

[Onkel Neal]

My Samsung has a native res of 1280x1024....so I really did not see anything weird. But....this is nasty :-?

My 19" Samsung 931B runs at 1280x1024, too. I use the Radeon 1650 Pro. I guess either I am used to this and didn't notice, or it doesn't look that bad on my screen.

DragonRR1, which mission is that? I will take a screen and see how it looks on my system.

Also, if I am not mistaken, can't this game be played in a window, for people with gigantic montiors? Educate me, I don't know a lot about this.

[stabiz]

Yes it can, but the option is usually used by people with low end specs, since it uses less juice that way.

[jeff lackey]

Well, when I take a screenshot and look at it in ACDSee or Photoshop, the info is that it is 1024x768, even when I've "set" the resolution higher.

Also, when I set the resolution higher in the options, then restart the game, the resolution (as well as the music setting) is always back to 1024x768, and music on. The gameplay settings are fine, and the graphic options (other than resolution) stick.
Hey jeff change it in the Cfg and see if it sticks. Maybe if this is true its just another crappy bug, and its not sticking in the CFG file.

You know, I had a thought, and sure enough the main.cfg file in my My Documents/SH3... etc folder was set as read only. Easy fix...

[Onkel Neal]

Since this seems to be the single biggest negative about the game, merged.

[nhall70]

My Samsung has a native res of 1280x1024....so I really did not see anything weird. But....this is nasty :-?

My 19" Samsung 931B runs at 1280x1024, too. I use the Radeon 1650 Pro. I guess either I am used to this and didn't notice, or it doesn't look that bad on my screen.

DragonRR1, which mission is that? I will take a screen and see how it looks on my system.

Also, if I am not mistaken, can't this game be played in a window, for people with gigantic montiors? Educate me, I don't know a lot about this.

I'm not sure if SH4 will run in a window or not but it's not common for games to support windowed mode these days.

However, the problem is that I have a 24" widescreen moniter with a native resolution of 1920x1200. If I run SH4 in a window at 1024x768, it would literally take up less than 1/4 of my screen.

This would pretty much kill the immersion factor I'm afraid. :-?

[evil666]

mh, punch me, afaik, to run a game in window mode needs a bit more performance than run it in fullscreen. but i could surely wrong. :hmm:

[Sectus]

@Sectus

what kind and type of monitor do you use?
21" 4:3 CRT monitor.

[RickC Sniper]

My Samsung has a native res of 1280x1024....so I really did not see anything weird. But....this is nasty :-?

My 19" Samsung 931B runs at 1280x1024, too. I use the Radeon 1650 Pro. I guess either I am used to this and didn't notice, or it doesn't look that bad on my screen.

DragonRR1, which mission is that? I will take a screen and see how it looks on my system.

Also, if I am not mistaken, can't this game be played in a window, for people with gigantic montiors? Educate me, I don't know a lot about this.


Absolutely, you can force 4:3 aspect ratio and get the nearly square screen. (I can do this in my geforce video card control panel, it isn't windowed it's just forcing 4:3 aspect.)


BUT: The higher the native resolution of the monitor the worse a lower resolution looks, even at the 4:3 scale.
Ever see a high def widescreen tv recieving an analog feed? Utterly horrible.

[Onkel Neal]

My Samsung has a native res of 1280x1024....so I really did not see anything weird. But....this is nasty :-?

My 19" Samsung 931B runs at 1280x1024, too. I use the Radeon 1650 Pro. I guess either I am used to this and didn't notice, or it doesn't look that bad on my screen.

DragonRR1, which mission is that? I will take a screen and see how it looks on my system.

Also, if I am not mistaken, can't this game be played in a window, for people with gigantic montiors? Educate me, I don't know a lot about this.

I'm not sure if SH4 will run in a window or not but it's not common for games to support windowed mode these days.

However, the problem is that I have a 24" widescreen moniter with a native resolution of 1920x1200. If I run SH4 in a window at 1024x768, it would literally take up less than 1/4 of my screen.

This would pretty much kill the immersion factor I'm afraid. :-?

Ok, I guess my next naive question is, if you run it windowed, with a black wallpaper, will the overall size of the window be the same as someone with a 19" monitor at 1280*1024 ? And the image quality would be better? Next question (and I am not trying to be a smart ass here :)) what do other games look like on your 24" freaking huge montior? (Ok, that freaking huge part was uncalled for, but I'm jealous). How do they accomodate the theater size montiors?

I guess it comes down to running it windowed, or skipping it.

[flintlock]

I have a 24" widescreen moniter with a native resolution of 1920x1200. If I run SH4 in a window at 1024x768, it would literally take up less than 1/4 of my screen. This would pretty much kill the immersion factor I'm afraid. That's an understatement.

Even little 15" 4:3 LCDs use a native resolution of 1280x1024. You'd have to find a 13" 4:3 LCD to support an XGA natively.

[flintlock]

I guess it comes down to running it windowed, or skipping it.
The challenge some may also encounter is this: although you can cancel scaling via your driver settings, some LCDs will override this and rescale it across the entire screen again. The only way around this is if the game supports windowed mode, and unfortunately many do not.

[RickC Sniper]

My older games pretty much all support my 1680x1050 native resolution (22 inch monitor) and I run them at 4:3 aspect ratio. They run fullscreen top to bottom with some wasted area on the sides. They look fine, if they run at that resolution....at 800x600 or 1024x768 pretty crappy.

[Onkel Neal]

I guess it comes down to running it windowed, or skipping it.
The challenge some may also encounter is this: although you can cancel scaling via your driver settings, some LCDs will override this and rescale it across the entire screen again. The only way around this is if the game supports windowed mode, and unfortunately many do not.

Ok, I didn't realize this. Of course, you are talking to a guy who has been using a 17" monitor from Wal-mart for 6 years... I just bought the 19" LCD a few weeks ago. Honestly, I think SH4 looks brilliant. I guess maybe it doesn't on 24" montiors. Are other games like Halflife 2 and Age of Empires 3 able to run and look good on those montiors?

You could always by my 17" for SH4... cheap! :yep:

[nhall70]

My Samsung has a native res of 1280x1024....so I really did not see anything weird. But....this is nasty :-?

My 19" Samsung 931B runs at 1280x1024, too. I use the Radeon 1650 Pro. I guess either I am used to this and didn't notice, or it doesn't look that bad on my screen.

DragonRR1, which mission is that? I will take a screen and see how it looks on my system.

Also, if I am not mistaken, can't this game be played in a window, for people with gigantic montiors? Educate me, I don't know a lot about this.

I'm not sure if SH4 will run in a window or not but it's not common for games to support windowed mode these days.

However, the problem is that I have a 24" widescreen moniter with a native resolution of 1920x1200. If I run SH4 in a window at 1024x768, it would literally take up less than 1/4 of my screen.

This would pretty much kill the immersion factor I'm afraid. :-?

Ok, I guess my next naive question is, if you run it windowed, with a black wallpaper, will the overall size of the window be the same as someone with a 19" monitor at 1280*1024 ? And the image quality would be better? Next question (and I am not trying to be a smart ass here :)) what do other games look like on your 24" freaking huge montior? (Ok, that freaking huge part was uncalled for, but I'm jealous). How do they accomodate the theater size montiors?

I guess it comes down to running it windowed, or skipping it.

LOL :rotfl: It's ok, I'm not offended.

Most current games support 1920x1200 resolution natively in fullscreen mode. Of course it takes a pretty hot graphics card to run a game at this resolution but most games don't prevent you from doing this if you've got the setup for it.

You know, running windowed is actually the best suggestion I've heard yet. I might actually be willing to give that a try, but it's hard to imagine being satisfied with it. It's been many years since I've run a game windowed.

[Onkel Neal]

LOL :rotfl: It's ok, I'm not offended.

Most current games support 1920x1200 resolution natively in fullscreen mode. Of course it takes a pretty hot graphics card to run a game at this resolution but most games don't prevent you from doing this if you've got the setup for it.

You know, running windowed is actually the best suggestion I've heard yet. I might actually be willing to give that a try, but it's hard to imagine being satisfied with it. It's been many years since I've run a game windowed.

Well, I can imagine it's not the best solution. :oops: It seems each Silent Hunter game has been a little behind the curve on resolution. SH2 ran at 800x600, in early 2002. We had some clever guys make a conversion kit to get it up to 1024x768x32. Are you telling me 1024*768 res is dated? :rotfl:

[flintlock]

[Are other games like Halflife 2 and Age of Empires 3 able to run and look good on those montiors?
I can't speak for AoE as that's one strategy title I don't own, though HL2 looks fantastic, as it supports 1920x1200 (the native resolutions on 24" LCDs).

You could always by my 17" for SH4... cheap! :yep:
lol - no doubt. :D

[evil666]

@Sectus

what kind and type of monitor do you use? 21" 4:3 CRT monitor.

already a nice dimension. it's sort of weird to run the game in 1024x768, i would guess. :hmm:

[RickC Sniper]

Do you ATI owners have this option in your settings? It is not windowed, it runs fullscreen but forces the aspect ratio.?? I use it if a game doesn't support widescreen. Looks fine if my native rez is supported.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/RickC/aspect.jpg

[flintlock]

1024x768 was a respectable resolution when first released, but it just doesn't hold the same awe factor seventeen years later. ;)

@ RickC Sniper, yes we do. The option is referred to as "centered timings."

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t287/idachs/subsim/untitled-3.jpg

[RickC Sniper]

GOOD! :)

[evil666]

hu, flintlock is still running the old (and much more slooooower) control center. :lol:

[flintlock]

hu, flintlock is still running the old (and much more slooooower) control center. :lol: It's the most recent CCC released with the latest 7.2 Catalyst drivers. Perhaps you're confused by the skin?

[evil666]

It's the latest CCC released with the latest 7.2 Cats.
really sure? i thought the new one is smaller and slimmer. :hmm:

Perhaps you're confused by the skin?

That's quite possible.

[flintlock]

I simply changed the skin from the default. I like this new CCC because it seems to work a lot faster then the previous one -- even loads super quick now too. If you have the latest CCC, open it up and under preferences change the default skin to CATALYST_SteelBlue and you should see the same as I posted above.

:up:

[evil666]

oh ok, that's it! :yep:

[Ark]

I am still amazed that people think the missing ability of pre 8xxx-nvidias is a Ubi-Bug :D

It is a purely nVidia-bug, because the video-cards cannot render Post-Processing and FSAA in the same time. Honestly, even 8xxx use a work-around. That is not limited to Ubi or something. It's the same with HL2, BF2142 and any other game, that uses HDR-Effects and runs with pre 8xxx nVidias. If you want to get rid of it, stop complaining about a software-bug in the game and get a next generation nVidia. Or even better: If you pay attention to texture and screen quality, drop your fanboyism and get an ATi-card.:stare:





IT DOES NOT WORK ON AN ATI CARD.

IT IS AN ENGINE ISSUE...NOT A VIDEOCARD ISSUE.

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

I'm thinking of just changing my signature to information about FSAA in SHIV not working with ATI cards either. LOL

[JasonSK]

Ug...
I tryed really hard.. I dumped it to 1600x900.. I ran it in a window.. everything, I really tryed to overlook this but after 3h's I have a fckign splitting headack, its a PAIN IN THE ASS to deal with anything from a distance because its nothing but a mess of jaggedness... what cluster Fck of a moron would EVER think that faking high rez's is a good idea?? christ....if you even suggested that where I work you would be shot on the spot, twice, in the head, then burned and your remains mixed with salt and set on fire..


For the poster above, they are just in denial, they belive we are all full of it and missing a simple check box, tunes will change once more pepople have it, Ive already got the nylon hangmans noose ready!

[Ark]

http://www.demowarp.se/video/sh4.wmv

That video is from the sticky above. You can see the lack of AA in the entire thing.

Omg...

That looks like crap.

Wtf did I just buy? LOL

This dev team just put itself at the top of my "beware" list. Congrats.

They were hoping people would not notice the 1024x768 3D? They tried it anyways, depsite the huge outcry before? You have to be kidding me. LOL!

I actually feel somewhat betrayed.

[flintlock]

Jason, you're unhappy -- fair enough. But please, respect the rules of these forums. No need to degenerate the conversation to this level. Lets keep the discussion at a mature level.

[Onkel Neal]

Ug...
I tryed really hard.. I dumped it to 1600x900.. I ran it in a window.. everything, I really tryed to overlook this but after 3h's I have a fckign splitting headack, its a PAIN IN THE ASS to deal with anything from a distance because its nothing but a mess of jaggedness... what cluster Fck of a moron would EVER think that faking high rez's is a good idea?? christ....if you even suggested that where I work you would be shot on the spot, twice, in the head, then burned and your remains mixed with salt and set on fire..


For the poster above, they are just in denial, they belive we are all full of it and missing a simple check box, tunes will change once more pepople have it, Ive already got the nylon hangmans noose ready!

Welcome to Subsim, Jason. You are probably new here, let me point out the basic rules. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=susbim_faq_item#faq_new_faq_item_langu age)

The Radio Room forum is not the place for flaming, spewing, or otherwise mouthing off. We do not allow posts where people are called idiots, morons, etc.

You are probably used to the Internet as a crazy place where people say all kinds of rude things and it's no big deal. Not here, thanks :yep:

cheers
Neal

[DJSatane]

http://www.demowarp.se/video/sh4.wmv

That video is from the sticky above. You can see the lack of AA in the entire thing.

Omg...

That looks like crap.

Wtf did I just buy? LOL

This dev team just put itself at the top of my "beware" list. Congrats.

They were hoping people would not notice the 1024x768 3D? They tried it anyways, depsite the huge outcry before? You have to be kidding me. LOL!

I actually feel somewhat betrayed.

There is more blocks due to compression of the video than you actually will see when you play the game. Sure I am aware of lack of aa I was the one that noted this month ago, not many people cared then. But the game itself still looks nice and I am happy with the quality sub sim to be out. There are no other alternatives of this kind last time I checked. I am buying 2-3 copies this week depending how many of my friends will be playing online with me. I am ware of shortbacks with the game already, I do hope they fix at least half of the major issues with few patches. Graphically though the game is substantial upgrade of SH3.

[evil666]

is there a chance for an official ubi statement? maybe within the next days?

[MikeJW]

Even if it only looked as good as SH3 I'd be happy. I guess I'm a neo-Luddite or something since I only play on a 17" CRT anyway. This is why simulations are a dying breed: a few flaws and people are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater despite this being the only game in town. I've seen the sim racing scene fade away into nothing because of similiar attitudes and that was a bigger market than sub sims so lets be thankful for what we do have.

[Ark]

http://www.demowarp.se/video/sh4.wmv

That video is from the sticky above. You can see the lack of AA in the entire thing.

Omg...

That looks like crap.

Wtf did I just buy? LOL

This dev team just put itself at the top of my "beware" list. Congrats.

They were hoping people would not notice the 1024x768 3D? They tried it anyways, depsite the huge outcry before? You have to be kidding me. LOL!

I actually feel somewhat betrayed.

There is more blocks due to compression of the video than you actually will see when you play the game. Sure I am aware of lack of aa I was the one that noted this month ago, not many people cared then. But the game itself still looks nice and I am happy with the quality sub sim to be out. There are no other alternatives of this kind last time I checked. I am buying 2-3 copies this week depending how many of my friends will be playing online with me. I am ware of shortbacks with the game already, I do hope they fix at least half of the major issues with few patches. Graphically though the game is substantial upgrade of SH3.


Compression or not, 1024x768 without FSAA just looks....bad. lol

I just tried out some of my current games at that resolution with no FSAA and it was laughable at best.

I wonder if there will be a D3D tweak like there was for SH3. I hope there will be, or I just don't see myself playing this one.

[Ark]

Even if it only looked as good as SH3 I'd be happy. I guess I'm a neo-Luddite or something since I only play on a 17" CRT anyway. This is why simulations are a dying breed: a few flaws and people are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater despite this being the only game in town. I've seen the sim racing scene fade away into nothing because of similiar attitudes and that was a bigger market than sub sims so lets be thankful for what we do have.

Actually, racing is still huge on the PC.

GTR/GTR2
LFS
rFactor
NR2003 (still being played)


There are still a LOT of people still playing racing games on the PC. It has hardly faded away into nothing. :)

[MikeJW]

Even if it only looked as good as SH3 I'd be happy. I guess I'm a neo-Luddite or something since I only play on a 17" CRT anyway. This is why simulations are a dying breed: a few flaws and people are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater despite this being the only game in town. I've seen the sim racing scene fade away into nothing because of similiar attitudes and that was a bigger market than sub sims so lets be thankful for what we do have.

Actually, racing is still huge on the PC.

GTR/GTR2
LFS
rFactor
NR2003 (still being played)


There are still a LOT of peopel still playing racing games on the PC. It has hardly faded away into nothing. :)

And out of those you listed how many can you go into a store and buy? On a typical night how many are on a server? How many also attract a decent following of casual players who become simmers like the Papyrus titles did? Other than GTR2 none of those are likely to "recruit" more people into the genre.

[Ark]

Even if it only looked as good as SH3 I'd be happy. I guess I'm a neo-Luddite or something since I only play on a 17" CRT anyway. This is why simulations are a dying breed: a few flaws and people are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater despite this being the only game in town. I've seen the sim racing scene fade away into nothing because of similiar attitudes and that was a bigger market than sub sims so lets be thankful for what we do have.

Actually, racing is still huge on the PC.

GTR/GTR2
LFS
rFactor
NR2003 (still being played)


There are still a LOT of peopel still playing racing games on the PC. It has hardly faded away into nothing. :)

And out of those you listed how many can you go into a store and buy? On a typical night how many are on a server? How many also attract a decent following of casual players who become simmers like the Papyrus titles did? Other than GTR2 none of those are likely to "recruit" more people into the genre.


RFactor has a rather huge following, as does LFS. One thing is for sure...the racingsim forums are sure busier then any other type of game I have seen, except for maybe Avsim. A lot of people run Rfactor races quite often, same with LFS.

Some the SimHQ guys run community races with the various games quite often. Heck, I know a bunch of guys at WWII Online who still play NR2003. :)

[XanderF]

Even if it only looked as good as SH3 I'd be happy. I guess I'm a neo-Luddite or something since I only play on a 17" CRT anyway. This is why simulations are a dying breed: a few flaws and people are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater despite this being the only game in town. I've seen the sim racing scene fade away into nothing because of similiar attitudes and that was a bigger market than sub sims so lets be thankful for what we do have.

That's why we have boardgames, man - LOL (see the sig!).

To be fair, I *realize* it's the only game in town, so I'm willing to forgive a LOT.

That said...I mean, seriously, 3d locked at 1024x768? No FSAA?

Gimme a break! That was passe years ago. It's only painful, now.

Ah, well, as I pointed out earlier in the thread - don't open it, you can always return it. Sucks that we'd even want to, but...maybe eventually some patch will come out that fixes it and we can buy it at a lower price, anyway. Or, not, and it's just money you save outright. I'm hardly so desperate that I'll buy absolutely ANYTHING, regardless of quality, because it has the right theme.

[MikeJW]

Hey, everbody makes judgements on whats worth their money. I dont see a big deal of 1024x768 and no FSAA as long as the gameplay is there. Its just trivial to me but not others, I guess. Ark, guess what? I'm one of those who still play NR2003, or I did until recently. For me it was the last racing sim that grabbed me and I culd spend hours just running a track setting up my car. Tried GTR but it lacked soul to me and I never could get my wheel set up right.

[Ark]

Hey, everbody makes judgements on whats worth their money. I dont see a big deal of 1024x768 and no FSAA as long as the gameplay is there. Its just trivial to me but not others, I guess. Ark, guess what? I'm one of those who still play NR2003, or I did until recently. For me it was the last racing sim that grabbed me and I culd spend hours just running a track setting up my car. Tried GTR but it lacked soul to me and I never could get my wheel set up right.

NR2003 is a good time. :)

Check out rFactor if you have the time. There are quite a few mods for it (with more on the way) that should suit just about any taste.

[XanderF]

Hey, everbody makes judgements on whats worth their money. I dont see a big deal of 1024x768 and no FSAA as long as the gameplay is there. Its just trivial to me but not others, I guess. Ark, guess what? I'm one of those who still play NR2003, or I did until recently. For me it was the last racing sim that grabbed me and I culd spend hours just running a track setting up my car. Tried GTR but it lacked soul to me and I never could get my wheel set up right.

To be fair, I definitely understand the "graphics don't matter" camp. Hell, I mostly play board games that have no '3d graphics' AT ALL! Indeed, with this Sh4 debacle, I'll happily stick with the earlier and 'graphically less advanced' Sh3. And 'Harpoon 3' (where you just have NATO 'stick figure' displays of ships) is great!

Difference?

Well, see, I see a chasm between 'graphics don't matter', where they are just utilitarian, and 'graphics designed to cut corners', where they are patently offensive to watch. I can watch 2d displays all day to conduct a surface strike if they serve a function. If the sawtooth edges of a 3d rendered scene keep swimming by while looking around the con so often that it makes me literally sick...well...that's a problem.

As I just mentioned in another thread (but is relevant here):

Those same effects (and FSAA) are done on the XBox360 and PS3 on a regular basis - and certainly CAN be done on the PC, but aren't. Why? Well, the XBox360 and PS3 REQUIRE game devs to provide FSAA in all titles. The PC 'platform' doesn't. So, what are the devs to do? Well, clearly, get lazy and aim for the lowest common denominator.

THAT is what pisses me off the most. Same thing that irks me with Rainbow 6 and Ghost Recon 2. They are ALL FSAA'd on the consoles, but NONE on the PC. For no technical reason at all, it's just because the consoles REQUIRE it and the PCs don't, and the devs are interested in delivering as little as possible to get paid. It's just sad!

[Ark]

All this HDR and Post-Processing effects and transparent water..

BUT...

No FSAA and a locked 3D resolution of 1024x768.


Reminds me of what one of my military buddies used to say.

"You can't polish a turd."

lol

That guy cracked me up.

[Crosseye76]

All in all though, I think some people here are over-reacting. Sure, it's an ugly effect and it would better if it weren't here... but the game still looks ton better than SH3 and the gameplay itself seems much more fun than SH3. I don't regret my purchase of the game, I'm hoping this graphical effect will be togglable in a future patch but I can live with it anyway.


QFT

[Guido]

"you cant polish a turd" lol made me laugh!

Anyway, I imagine most of the crowd that dont care about AA so much arent running 40" screens that will just look awful without decent levels of AA.

I feel its certainly an oportunity missed by the developers here to enlarge the sims appeal, this is really what they were hoping to achieve with the more hollywood look and feel about the game, so to let it out with an inability of using AA really is deeply a backward step - and if its true that the image is upscaled when the res is changed thats also poor. Many people will just not bother with it because it may look like a jigsaw on there 2k screen, remeber theres a whole spectrum of people who could be interested in it, not just the guyz playing on a 17" crt who will buy it regardless.

[OneTinSoldier]

and if its true that the image is upscaled when the res is changed thats also poor.

Poor? I thinks it's an outrage! Can someone tell me how many other games/sims that, when you select a 1600x1200 resolution actually throw out a rendering that's upscaled from a lower resolution? I think this is the first one! One things for sure, I feel deceptive practices are at work by Ubi here to try to get you to part with your money and I almost wonder if they couldn't be sued over such a thing.

[Guido]

OT slightly but..............


Originally Posted by StandingCow
http://www.demowarp.se/video/sh4.wmv

That video is from the sticky above. You can see the lack of AA in the entire thing.


this movie, has a soundtrack which to me sounds very much like "lost patrol" from the amiga days, and of course the title would fit well, anyone else notice?
or am I the only amiga geek.

[IRONxMortlock]

One things for sure, I feel deceptive practices are at work by Ubi here to try to get you to part with your money and I almost wonder if they couldn't be sued over such a thing.

Oh Gawd! Here come the "I'm taking legal action" threads.:88)

[Immacolata]

One things for sure, I feel deceptive practices are at work by Ubi here to try to get you to part with your money and I almost wonder if they couldn't be sued over such a thing.

Oh Gawd! Here come the "I'm taking legal action" threads.:88)

Yes. Have to be an american :)

Listen you AA people. Read this article. Its scary but also explaining part of the problem.

The future of Anti-Aliasing (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2947)

[DaMaGe007]

I just cant believe they did it again...

Lying about resolutions

Lying about visibility distance

Lying about Imperial mesurements

What next...Liferafts that arent shootable, nuclear powered gato's ??...

Im feeling disapointed already and I havent even bought the damn game yet.

Where is the honesty and integrity gone from comuter game companies...

:nope:

[enemyminds81]

stop being a cry baby!

very few people own the game yet, if AA isnt supported, i mean give me a break!!

you act like we have a plethora of sub sims being thrown at us left and right. i honestly will play the game even it only supported 800x600.

besides if you have a good LCD, they scale pretty nicely from lower res.

heck on my sam sung 22@1680x1050. i play certain games like bf2 at 1280x1024 with 4x aa, and 8x AF on, and it looks fantastic at non native, and even better if i do run it on native. but i would prefer a better frame rate in those games over slight PQ.

at any rate, this game isnt just about graphics or jaggies, its about gameplay.

im sure a fix will pop up soon enough anyway either by the devs or some modder

no big deal
now take your panties out of a bunch and get your skibbies on sailor! lol

[DaMaGe007]

For me personally Its not a big deal.

I run a 19" monitor, I would be running 1024x768 with no fsaa anyway, and being an Australian, metric is probably preferable, although I would use feet if it were available for historic reasons.

So these things arent a problem for me, I just dont like being lied to, if they had been honest about these things on the forums before hand I wouldnt be mentioning my disapointment.

Fudging the resolution is still a very shady thing to do.

[Immacolata]

Maybe its the image processing (hollywood effects) that does it? To me it looks as if even the 1024x768 screenshots are too jaggy for it to be normal.

[Safe-Keeper]

"Lying" and "feeling certain enough that a given feature will be in to promise its insertion, for then to have it cut short because of unexpected hindrances" are two very different things.

Where is the honesty and integrity gone from comuter game companies...Most developers are good people. Many publishers are good people. Too many games are rushed these days, but most developers I don't have a problem with.

[Immacolata]

"Lying" and "feeling certain enough that a given feature will be in to promise its insertion, for then to have it cut short because of unexpected hindrances" are two very different things.


Yes, yes, but that balanced view completely ruins the emo's hissyfits, throwing toy out of pram and what not. I'll do the wait and see approach to this game I think, not going to get worked up over it. If I can keep up my resolve I will wait till after first patch to buy it.

Most developers are good people. Many publishers are good people. Too many games are rushed these days, but most developers I don't have a problem with.

I actually think Ubi is working up a slightly troubled track record on buggy releases. Its not just SH4, its just about every game these days. Take EA for instance, their games are much less buggy. Not flawless of course, but they just work better out of the box.

if Ubi really wants to beat EA they better up their quality standards a bit.

[Dragonhammer]

Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.
It even said so in the readme of those games.
Wih games like vanguard,splintercell3 and Silent hunter 4 they had the common sense to disable AA so the support people and the boards would net get flooded with people whining and moaning that the games crashes and has graphical glitches.

For future games that are going to come out and that use HDR and shader 3 i can tell you this there will be no AA

[DragonRR1]

Just an update on my original post:

I am almost 100% certain now that anything 3D is locked at 1024x768

I've tried the SH3 res fix.. doesn't seem to work.

I've searched through the config files and other files to find a fix and cannot find anything obvious.

It seems that anything 2D is rendered at the set resolution - in my case 1920x1200 - for example on the navigation map screen everything excluding event cameras is at full resolution.


A programmer friend of mine thinks that it would actually be more difficult for the devs to render the 3D in this way (he thinks they are rendering to a back buffer first rather than direct rendering) so he suggests that they could probably fix it if they chose to.

For me the problem is disappointing to say the least. I have gone back to SH3+GWX with the old SH3 res fix to run at 1920x1200 for now.. imho it looks, in the main, better than SH4.

The problem isn't a complete show stopper but it is just ludicrous that at 1920x1200 distant objects and even the sub's railings look pixellated.

Here's a shot I took of Sh3 with GWX at 1920x1200.. no jaggies or pixellation.. AND NO AA!! for those of you that think this is an AA problem ;)

[img=http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8100/sh3xe0.th.gif] (http://img59.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3xe0.gif)

Interestingly if you enable the software AA at 1920x1200 (shift-pageup/dwn I think) in SH3 it starts to look more like SH4! I've tried various key combinations in SH4 but can't find anything to turn off s/w AA (if it's there at all)

[shell]

Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.
It even said so in the readme of those games.
Wih games like vanguard,splintercell3 and Silent hunter 4 they had the common sense to disable AA so the support people and the boards would net get flooded with people whining and moaning that the games crashes and has graphical glitches.

For future games that are going to come out and that use HDR and shader 3 i can tell you this there will be no AA

You are totally wrong. Please read the Thread.

[RocketDog]

DragonHammer, HDR can be combined with FSAA. ATi flagged this long ago for all their Radeon X1k series cards. I would expect it also works on the Nvidia equivalents. The issue with SH4 appears to be because of post-processing effects.

Cheers,

RD.

[Snakeeyes]

Well, this is no-go for me. Have seen screenshots here and elsewhere, and SH4 looks awful. Its washed out and strange looking, bland colours and terrible jaggies. (Kinda like GRAW (another UBI no AA-debacle)

I have also read about mad stuttering with high end systems, even with high fps.

Preorder cancelled by stabiz.

I agree Stabiz. It looks gloomy. I posted that about a week ago. All the screehshots looked dark and foreboding to me. Others said no, this was a hollywood effect type deal. I guess it is not.

So... to clarify...

A. I can't force AA through my Geforce 7800... right?

B. The game natively does NOT support AA.... Things are going to look blocky no matter what we do... right?

C. There appear to be problems with higher resolutions NOT reducing the blockiness.


What is it with UBI and WEIRD LIGHTING EFFECTS! GRAW was all stupidly colored. They always told us it was because of Mexico City's polution but for Christ's sake we had to make our own patch to take it out. A lot of SHIV's pre-release screen shots were damn dark and I wonder if it's to hide the jaggies? Probably not, but SHIII's coloring was, well, easier on the eyes. Mine arrives in 2 days so I'll see if the color is as weird as it looks. Keeping my fingers crossed that I can live with it but I totally understand Stabiz. Mine will be heading back if it looks as bad as some of those videos.

[stabiz]

All those are correct. We still havent heard if its possible to override it somehow. The engine is supposed to be a juiced up SH3-engine, and I would happily give up the Hollywood Effect(!) for FSAA.

The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.

[nhall70]

All those are correct. We still havent heard if its possible to override it somehow. The engine is supposed to be a juiced up SH3-engine, and I would happily give up the Hollywood Effect(!) for FSAA.

The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.

I'm still holding out hope on the resolution "bug". I agree that it's beyond belief that Ubisoft would truely think that this is acceptable.

However, I have no hope whatsoever regarding FSAA. Normally, I would chalk it up to a bug that will be fixed...but I've already seen Ubisoft's response to this in GRAW and R6. I've pretty much completely given up hope. It appears that Ubisoft has decided quite intentionally that FSAA is a bad idea.

For those of you that are hoping for an FSAA patch...keep this in mind. GRAW came out almost a year ago. There is still no support for FSAA in GRAW and Ubisoft has stated very clearly that there never will be.

[StandingCow]

I pretty much keep all forms of AA off in games that support HDR anyway.

[ParaB]

I pretty much keep all forms of AA off in games that support HDR anyway.

So do I. But then I simply switch to a higher resolution (like 1280x960) to improve image quality.

For me this whole AA/resolution problem is by no means a reason not to buy SH 4. It's just that I absolutely can't understand why the devs on one side implement (IMHO unnecessary) eye candy like the post-processing "Hollywood effect" and at the same time neglect the most basic image-quality improving features like AA and the support for higher resolutions.

[jeff lackey]

After changing the main.cfg file so that it is no longer "read only" I can change resolutions and have them stick, and there is 100% no doubt that at 1920x1200 the 3D models are identical to 1024x768. Pretty jagged, etc. In fact, it may look a little worse when upscaled to that resolution. I like the extra space on the maps, etc. I get from the higher resolution, so I've compromised at 1600x1200 4:3.

Yeah, the graphics are not nearly what you'd expect in a game in 2007. And it is a bit weak that they let you think you're changing the game's resolution. But it's far from unplayable. While I'm still in review mode, I'm enjoying the game - I'm a sub sim fanatic, and especially one with a dynamic campaign (sub sims with static, predictable missions? What's the point?) I'm much more focused on how well the sonar and radar works, how the enemy AI behaves/reacts, bugs, historical accuracy/"feel", etc.

FWIW

[Snakeeyes]

[quote=stabiz]All those are correct. We still havent heard if its possible to override it somehow. [quote]

I want to yell something that starts with 'mother' but I will refrain in deference to Lord Neal who I respect and honor.

Adding eye-candy but now removing what I call "The Leggo Effect" just shows.... well... err.... let's just say ULTIMATE poor judgement on the part of our developers.

Oh... and you're right. UBI pretty much told us to ____ ourselves in terms of GRAW's AA Madness.

It was the video with the deck gun that had me swearing uncontrollably. Looked like something out of the Atari 7800. Whats the use of having cool special effects if there is not a single smooth part of a surface? What are they thinking?!!! They made it work in SHIII! SO WHAT IF THE RESOLUTION WAS LOCKED BACK THEN?! It appears locked out of the box now anyway.

[OneTinSoldier]

The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.


If that's true then I may actually calm down and purchase the game.

Are you absolutely certain this going to be fixed? If so, I would like to ask how it is that you know.

And just to be clear and make sure you are talking about the same 'bug' that I think/hope you are, what I am referring to is higher resolutions aren't really higher resolutions but are instead just an 'upscale' of 1024x768. I'm not referring to a resolution choice not sticking because a .cfg file is read-only.

[stabiz]

The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.

If that's true then I may actually calm down and purchase the game.

Are you absolutely certain this going to be fixed? If so, I would like to ask how it is that you know.

And just to be clear and make sure you are talking about the same 'bug' that I think/hope you are, what I am referring to is higher resolutions aren't really higher resolutions but are instead just an 'upscale' of 1024x768. I'm not referring to a resolution choice not sticking because a .cfg file is read-only.

I am sure because anything else is to hard to fathom. They have stated time and time again that resolutions can be changed, and a 2007 title that doesnt support widescreen is for me the wierdest game suicide ever. I mean, that literally locks out tons of potential customers. Another thing is FSAA, if they want to attract the casual gamer, they should know FSAA is more important to the casual gamer than post processing. I didnt join in on the FSAA thread until now, since I always expected it could be forced, like in SH3. What a let down this is.

[tommyk]

I very much hope upscaled 1024 will be fixed soon for all SH4 skippers but I doubt it so much that I stay with GWX (preorder cancel)

[nhall70]

The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.


If that's true then I may actually calm down and purchase the game.

Are you absolutely certain this going to be fixed? If so, I would like to ask how it is that you know.

And just to be clear and make sure you are talking about the same 'bug' that I think/hope you are, what I am referring to is higher resolutions aren't really higher resolutions but are instead just an 'upscale' of 1024x768. I'm not referring to a resolution choice not sticking because a .cfg file is read-only.

None of us really know for sure. Ubisoft has yet to say anything at all about this. We're just speculating that Ubisoft is an experienced enough publisher that they wouldn't do something this deceptive. In other words, we're giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding the resolution "bug".

I honestly don't know what the hell is going on over at Ubisoft anymore. You would think at the very least that they would be sick of seeing this same HUGE outcry all over the Internet every single time they release a game.

[Snakeeyes]

The resolution "bug" will be fixed, anything else is unbelievable.

If that's true then I may actually calm down and purchase the game.

Are you absolutely certain this going to be fixed? If so, I would like to ask how it is that you know.

And just to be clear and make sure you are talking about the same 'bug' that I think/hope you are, what I am referring to is higher resolutions aren't really higher resolutions but are instead just an 'upscale' of 1024x768. I'm not referring to a resolution choice not sticking because a .cfg file is read-only.

I am sure because anything else is to hard to fathom. They have stated time and time again that resolutions can be changed, and a 2007 title that doesnt support widescreen is for me the wierdest game suicide ever. I mean, that literally locks out tons of potential customers. Another thing is FSAA, if they want to attract the casual gamer, they should know FSAA is more important to the casual gamer than post processing. I didnt join in on the FSAA thread until now, since I always expected it could be forced, like in SH3. What a let down this is.

If I know UBI soft, YES the resolution thing will be fixed. DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH for the AA! Ubisoft hates it and their latest engines appear to be cost-savers. The only way AA can be added is if this engine driving the game is NOT the same used in GRAW. From what I see in the demo videos IT IS IDENTICAL to GRAW. STILL... at least the game does not come from GRIN... those guys were simply the worst when it came to PC titles.

[DaMaGe007]

I have doubts that the resolution upscaling will be fixed to tell you the truth.
The other screens are at higher resolutions and it gives the impression that the game is running in a higher rez, I dont think they ever had any intention of making the 3d run at a higher rez.
Sh3 was locked at a lower rez and its the same engine with a few enhancements.

Sh3 was never fixed...

[piperprinx]

Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.
I played Oblivion for hours with AA+HDR, both with ATI and Nvidia cards, without a single crash. ANd with 8800GTX the graphic is *stunning*.

SH4 is simply crap on my 1920*1200 dell. A shame for a 2007 game.
I'm not a graphic fanboy but hey, SH4 is so UGLY that I really cannot think of play it....

I could stand AA, but 1024 is a shame....even N64 emulator looks better.... at least it has AA...

[Snakeeyes]

Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.

I played Oblivion for hours with AA+HDR, both with ATI and Nvidia cards, without a single crash. ANd with 8800GTX the graphic is *stunning*.

SH4 is simply crap on my 1920*1200 dell. A shame for a 2007 game.
I'm not a graphic fanboy but hey, SH4 is so UGLY that I really cannot think of play it....

If it's as bad as I think It's going back.

[SteamWake]

It is curious that after 18 pages of debate no definative answer has been reached.

Also that many of the doom sayers are also the ones that play "hardcore" with no external views :hmm:

Yup I'd prefer to have fsaa available after all I spent alot of money on my video card to do such things.

Will it "break" my game experience? Not really.

[Shaffer4]

Quite honestly, For me, the only reason that I adjust the Graphics level above 1024x768 is to make the text smaller. so, doesn't really look like an issue to me. Same for AA; didn't bother me in SH3, shouldn't bother me here.

[Snakeeyes]

Everyone has different standards and tastes. If you like it then go crazy man! Play it out! I don't have any problem with ANYONE liking SHIV! I hope we ALL do.

It's just that weirdo graphics that appear to be as bad as these are going to be so distracting that I don't think I'll keep it. NOW... if the leggo effect is not as bad as it looks in video I'll give it a whirl. The sad thing is that I'm worried in the year 2007 by Thursday afternoon I'll be playing GWX again and there will be a box for Fed Ex pickup containing a $60.00 game on the stairs.

Graphics that CAN'T be smoothed in 2007?! We've been fracked.

Just sad what has appeared to have happened. I was really excited you know? :nope:

[OneTinSoldier]

I have doubts that the resolution upscaling will be fixed to tell you the truth.
The other screens are at higher resolutions and it gives the impression that the game is running in a higher rez, I dont think they ever had any intention of making the 3d run at a higher rez.
Sh3 was locked at a lower rez and its the same engine with a few enhancements.

Sh3 was never fixed...

Yeah, I'm still not convinced. I thought maybe stabiz had some kind of inside info. But it seems he's just going with a feeling that Ubi will do what's right.

Sorry stabiz, but I feel otherwise. I think Ubi is seeing what they can get away with here to get our money rather than do what's right. The only way I believe that the 3D world rendered resolution will be fixed and give us what's advertised in the game's options... is when Ubi says they they are going to fix it. Somehow, I don't think it's a small deal to fix.


Can anyone elaborate on what it would take for them to make the 3D world rendered at the, ah-hem, actual resolutions that are selectable in the game's options?

[piperprinx]

Hey my first post.
After seeing a couple of post of whining and moaning about AA i couldent resist any more and registered to make a reply and give you the low down about AA and the future of AA.

We all want are games to look as real as possible, to do this direct x 9 has some new features like HDR(high dynamic range lighting) this makes light look like real light because it has more tone colors and intensities,before there was HDR light only had 2 options it was on(bright white whit no variations) or off.
Also there is shader 3 its a couple of effects that for example make water look wet and steel glimmer in the sun.

These features come at a price and the price is that they DO NOT support AA.
We can see that in a number of games that are out now like Oblivion,battle for middle earth2,splinter cell 3,vanguard and so on.

With Oblivion and battle for middle earth you could force the game into AA but the game would crash and or you would have graphicall anomalys if you had HDR and advanced shaders activated.
I played Oblivion for hours with AA+HDR, both with ATI and Nvidia cards, without a single crash. ANd with 8800GTX the graphic is *stunning*.

SH4 is simply crap on my 1920*1200 dell. A shame for a 2007 game.
I'm not a graphic fanboy but hey, SH4 is so UGLY that I really cannot think of play it....
If it's as bad as I think It's going back.

Mine's going back...I think someone should be completely drunk to think about a game stuck on 1024 in 2007

[DaMaGe007]

Really ?
I think stabitz is being optimistic, and aplying a bit of wishfull thinking, but I would be happy for a UBi or developer comment about this issue, they must be reading...

also if Stabitz has some inside info I would be glad to hear it, mabe he is a beta tester or somthing...

Edit: the foreboding silence from ubi/developers is pretty much giving me the answer anyway.

[RocketDog]

Can anyone elaborate on what it would take for them to make the 3D world rendered at the, ah-hem, actual resolutions that are selectable in the game's options?

The famous dll fix on SH3 allows the game to be run with resolutions above 1024x768 with no apparent ill affects. I run SH3/GWX at 1600 x 1200 with 4xFSAA and 4xAF and it whizzes along at very respectable frame rates. I would expect that something similar could be done for SH4. If this were possible, running it in very high resolutions might mitigate the lack of FSAA - but it's still pretty shocking that a sim can be marketed in 2007 without a routine IQ feature like FSAA. I guess that anisotropic filtering is also ruled out?

More pertinently, on a big monitor (I use a 22" Iyama CRT) the IQ at 1024 x 768 with no FSAA is going to be truly horrible. If the IQ is degraded to be no better than SH3, why should I bother with SH4 when GWX has probably raised the gameplay beyond stock SH4 anyway?

Cheers,

RD.

[DaMaGe007]

Can anyone elaborate on what it would take for them to make the 3D world rendered at the, ah-hem, actual resolutions that are selectable in the game's options?

The famous dll fix on SH3 allows the game to be run with resolutions above 1024x768 with no apparent ill affects. I run SH3/GWX at 1600 x 1200 with 4xFSAA and 4xAF and it whizzes along at very respectable frame rates. I would expect that something similar could be done for SH4. If this were possible, running it in very high resolutions might mitigate the lack of FSAA - but it's still pretty shocking that a sim can be marketed in 2007 without a routine IQ feature like FSAA. I guess that anisotropic filtering is also ruled out?

More pertinently, on a big monitor (I use a 22" Iyama CRT) the IQ at 1024 x 768 with no FSAA is going to be truly horrible. If the IQ is degraded to be no better than SH3, why should I bother with SH4 when GWX has probably raised the gameplay beyond stock SH4 anyway?

Cheers,

RD.

It might have been broken due to the Upscaling of the 1024 image, I think someone posted that the resolution fix for sh3 doesnt work with sh4...

[RocketDog]

It might have been broken due to the Upscaling of the 1024 image, I think someone posted that the resolution fix for sh3 doesnt work with sh4...

That would be a real pain. I can't imagine playing anything in 1024 without FSAA. Anyway, I have cancelled my pre-order and will see if either high resolutions or FSAA become available in future. Man, what a disappointment after all the waiting.

Cheers,

RD.

[Ragtag]

Geforce 8800 card series supports HDR+FSAA but the problem is that there are no drivers wich supports it yet even though the card does.

[DragonRR1]

The SH3 res fix doesn't "appear" to work. I had a couple of tries with it. It did "something" - the text screens looked a bit odd... but didn't fix the issue.

As I've already mentioned my programmer friend has suggested that they might be rendering the 3D to a 1024x768 back buffer which, he says, is more complicated than just rendering directly. If he is right then the devs may well be able to fix the issue quite easily. There may well be a fixed 1024x768 setting hardcoded which they may just simply need to remove.

Whether they actually WILL fix the problem is debateable. I remember that they said with SH3 that changing screen res was just not possible... and yet someone proved them totally wrong. They may have had some issues with high res 3D and decided that they would just not enable it for support or FPS reasons..

Anything I or anyone else says (except UBI and the Devs) regarding whether the issue will be fixed is just educated guess work.

[OneTinSoldier]

Thanks DragonRR1. It should be interesting to see what Ubi has to say about this faked high resolution issue, if they aren't to scared to talk that is.

They were obviously too afraid to answer whether the game would support any Anti-Aliasing(how hard can it be to answer that question) which was
asked a number of times in the weeks before the game was released.

[DaMaGe007]

Im almost positive they wont say anything, they want people to think they are going to patch it.

Sad but most likely true. If sh3 is anything to go by.

[malkuth74]

From an Article someone Posted a link to in this Thread.

<u>When games (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2947&p=2#) that could benefit from AA on current hardware don't offer the option, we have no choice but to look to the driver for support. Of course, we do have bigger problems on the horizon. Some developers are currently choosing options such as deferred rendering for their games. Current techniques make use of multiple render targets (MRTs) to render objects or effects which are later combined to form a final image. MSAA does not play well with this technique, as one of the basic requirements is knowing what surfaces overlap a single pixel on the screen. Forcing AA on in the driver can cause problems in games where MSAA simply will not work. Current examples of this can be seen in these games:

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter
Rainbow Six: Vegas
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.</u>Imagine that, seems that you might want to add SHIV to this article. If this is true then I see AA Going to the wayside soon. And then what is everyone going to do?

But this should be combated with being aloud to have higher Resolutions. And no excuse for not doing that.

[Ragtag]

From an Article someone Posted a link to in this Thread.

<u>When games (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2947&p=2#) that could benefit from AA on current hardware don't offer the option, we have no choice but to look to the driver for support. Of course, we do have bigger problems on the horizon. Some developers are currently choosing options such as deferred rendering for their games. Current techniques make use of multiple render targets (MRTs) to render objects or effects which are later combined to form a final image. MSAA does not play well with this technique, as one of the basic requirements is knowing what surfaces overlap a single pixel on the screen. Forcing AA on in the driver can cause problems in games where MSAA simply will not work. Current examples of this can be seen in these games:

Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter
Rainbow Six: Vegas
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.</u>Imagine that, seems that you might want to add SHIV to this article. If this is true then I see AA Going to the wayside soon. And then what is everyone going to do?

But this should be combated with being aloud to have higher Resolutions. And no excuse for not doing that.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R supports Aniso and FSAA. I'ts in the advanced options in the video section.

[RickC Sniper]

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921019045/m/8611018145

In that thread there is an ubi moderator showing us the dev interview video where he states that high resolutions are supported.

I think UBI is as surprised as us at the resolution issue. We need a dev to respond so we can know for sure why they made this programming choice. I still believe it can be fixed if the desire is there.


I needed a new monitor and went with a widescreen over a square LCD because it was stated that sh4 would support it. The last 2 games I've purchased support it.

I'll get the game because I love subsims, but I sure hope I don't have to ask my son to give me back my old crt so I can enjoy it.

:p

[piperprinx]

Geforce 8800 card series supports HDR+FSAA but the problem is that there are no drivers wich supports it yet even though the card does.

you should tell to my 8800gtx, playing oblivion perfectly HDR+AA since first driver release.....

And I can play It with ATi too.....

[XanderF]

Imagine that, seems that you might want to add SHIV to this article. If this is true then I see AA Going to the wayside soon. And then what is everyone going to do?

But this should be combated with being aloud to have higher Resolutions. And no excuse for not doing that.

AA won't be "going to the wayside soon". Microsoft finds it critical enough a feature that ALL games that come out on the XBox360 (http://www.nforcershq.com/article3041.html) MUST PROVIDE FSAA. It isn't an option that can be turned off, all those games MUST be AA'd...period.

Indeed, the same games that "can't be" AA'd on the PC somehow manage to get AA on the 360 - GRAW, and R6:V just the most popular examples. Same effects as on the PC, and nearly same graphics core (the Xenos chip in the 360 is basically identical to a Radeon X1950).

So, why does it work on one 'platform' and not the other? Simple developer laziness. If you put out a 360 game, Microsoft REQUIRES FSAA, so developers provide it. If you put out a PC game, "nobody" (in the industry) cares whether you have AA or not, so...why bother? Just because the CUSTOMERS expect it, but....pfft...seriously, what do they matter? They'll buy anything with the appropriate cover on it to match their interests, regardless of content!

[Snakeeyes]

Imagine that, seems that you might want to add SHIV to this article. If this is true then I see AA Going to the wayside soon. And then what is everyone going to do?

But this should be combated with being aloud to have higher Resolutions. And no excuse for not doing that.

AA won't be "going to the wayside soon". Microsoft finds it critical enough a feature that ALL games that come out on the XBox360 (http://www.nforcershq.com/article3041.html) MUST PROVIDE FSAA. It isn't an option that can be turned off, all those games MUST be AA'd...period.

Indeed, the same games that "can't be" AA'd on the PC somehow manage to get AA on the 360 - GRAW, and R6:V just the most popular examples. Same effects as on the PC, and nearly same graphics core (the Xenos chip in the 360 is basically identical to a Radeon X1950).

So, why does it work on one 'platform' and not the other? Simple developer laziness. If you put out a 360 game, Microsoft REQUIRES FSAA, so developers provide it. If you put out a PC game, "nobody" (in the industry) cares whether you have AA or not, so...why bother? Just because the CUSTOMERS expect it, but....pfft...seriously, what do they matter? They'll buy anything with the appropriate cover on it to match their interests, regardless of content!

You Go boy!:rock:

[stabiz]

Just to clearify: I have no inside information, nor am I a beta tester. I just see it as a total sham if there indeed will never be possibilities to scale the resolutions, AS THEY PROMISED! So yes, I am being optimistic (and maybe naive) when I say I think they will fix this.


I got an email today, which said my preorder could not be cancelled, since it was sent today.:nope: Damn it. Sending it back is such a hazzle that maybe I`ll just shelf it instead. Maybe one day ...

The way I see it I will get a buggy game (saw that one coming) with uglier graphics than SH3 (definately didnt see that one coming) in the mail. Oh the joy.

[Ark]

DragonHammer, HDR can be combined with FSAA. ATi flagged this long ago for all their Radeon X1k series cards. I would expect it also works on the Nvidia equivalents. The issue with SH4 appears to be because of post-processing effects.

Cheers,

RD.


If that is true, it would be pretty sad since WWII Online has PPE and FSAA working at the same time on pretty much any medium range videocard....and that effect was added in close to a year ago. LOL

I won't even make mention of WWII Online's very small budget and very small development team.

No excuses, SHIV Devs.

[U-139]

These two threads probably shouldn't have been merged. I understand people's gripes about FSAA, but I haven't actually picked-up or paid the balance on my reserved copy of SH4; and I just have one question for anybody who actually has the game. If I had the game loaded and set the game resolution to match the native resolution of my LCD monitor (24" @ 1920x1200), will the 3D part of the display be at 1920x1200, or will it be at 1024x768 & stretched to fit my monitor? If it is the latter, I'm going to try and get my deposit back and wait to see if this issue is ever resolved before even thinking about spending my money on this lump of loaf. :nope:

[cherbert]

I hope the devs read this one!

I am gobsmacked at how they can work on this game over in Romania day in day out looking at what everyone else have started to witness and NOT ONCE think this is unacceptable?

The guy in the demonstration video was running the game on a 37" Toshiba LCD TV for gods sake!

I am running this game on a DELL 21" at 1920x1200 (with ATI X1950pro). And I'm sure others with similar screens will agree this game is just awful - and I mean AWFUL! to look at. The engine obviously has nice touches but these are just worthless additions now and totally ruined by lack of high resolution. If the engine actually ran at 1920x1200 I'm not sure I would notice lack of FSAA too much.

Even if the devs intend on fixing this problem there is still NO EXCUSE for not diving onto these forums and the official ones and making a statement of somekind. What is going on here is only the beginning of a massive community backlash. Look how many pi**ed off people there are already and there are stil thousands yet to receive their game!

If I were them I would try and salvage my business by letting people know the facts and any possible solutions regarding this issue.

To keep it quiet from us throughout the development is like a stab in the back. Everyone has been screaming for better support for Higher Resolution and Widescreen modes since SH3 was released. This must go down as the worst decision in gaming history for UBI Software Romania.

There have now been two working days for those guys to say something - and nothing. I am really looking forward to how much of a ripping the reviewers here and throughout the world give this game because of the let down on visuals.

I don't argue that SH4 is not just about visuals - but from what I am reading the game is riddled with bugs.

I even noticed that a bug that was fixed in an SH3 patch is now broke again! i.e you cannot play the gramaphone (or radio) if the music is switched off in the settings!!

I cannot identify any targets becuase they are just distance blurs of jaggyness.

SH4 was meant to be an expansion pack - well it feels like one!

[Paajtor]

Someone should sue them....Ubi, I mean. :()1:

[DragonRR1]

These two threads probably shouldn't have been merged. I understand people's gripes about FSAA, but I haven't actually picked-up or paid the balance on my reserved copy of SH4; and I just have one question for anybody who actually has the game. If I had the game loaded and set the game resolution to match the native resolution of my LCD monitor (24" @ 1920x1200), will the 3D part of the display be at 1920x1200, or will it be at 1024x768 & stretched to fit my monitor? If it is the latter, I'm going to try and get my deposit back and wait to see if this issue is ever resolved before even thinking about spending my money on this lump of loaf. :nope:

Basically the 3D (view from the bridge etc.) is stretched to fit (from about 1024x768) but anything 2D such as Nav maps and menu's are at the full 1920x1200 resolution. The periscope view, to me personally, seems to be a slightly higher resolution...

Yes this is not really related to the FSAA issue. As far as I can see there is at least some AA on the screen (probably s/w AA) anyway. If you look at my original post and zoom in on the bigger picture there is some aliasing going on at the edges.

[nhall70]

Someone should sue them....Ubi, I mean. :()1:

Please let's not start that kind of talk here. It's not constructive and it's not going to help anything.

[nhall70]

These two threads probably shouldn't have been merged. I understand people's gripes about FSAA, but I haven't actually picked-up or paid the balance on my reserved copy of SH4; and I just have one question for anybody who actually has the game. If I had the game loaded and set the game resolution to match the native resolution of my LCD monitor (24" @ 1920x1200), will the 3D part of the display be at 1920x1200, or will it be at 1024x768 & stretched to fit my monitor? If it is the latter, I'm going to try and get my deposit back and wait to see if this issue is ever resolved before even thinking about spending my money on this lump of loaf. :nope:

Basically the 3D (view from the bridge etc.) is stretched to fit (from about 1024x768) but anything 2D such as Nav maps and menu's are at the full 1920x1200 resolution. The periscope view, to me personally, seems to be a slightly higher resolution...

Yes this is not really related to the FSAA issue. As far as I can see there is at least some AA on the screen (probably s/w AA) anyway. If you look at my original post and zoom in on the bigger picture there is some aliasing going on at the edges.

If they really are up-scaling a low resolution image, that might explain why there appears to be "some" AA going on. The resampling process would have a tendancy to soften things up a bit. This is not AA though, software or otherwise.

[Gildor]

Someone should sue them....Ubi, I mean. :()1:

Sue Ubi? Under what legal grounds?

[ENIGMAXXI]

These two threads probably shouldn't have been merged. I understand people's gripes about FSAA, but I haven't actually picked-up or paid the balance on my reserved copy of SH4; and I just have one question for anybody who actually has the game. If I had the game loaded and set the game resolution to match the native resolution of my LCD monitor (24" @ 1920x1200), will the 3D part of the display be at 1920x1200, or will it be at 1024x768 & stretched to fit my monitor? If it is the latter, I'm going to try and get my deposit back and wait to see if this issue is ever resolved before even thinking about spending my money on this lump of loaf. :nope:
...it'll be the latter. Only your Interface, ie. the gauges and icons and message window will be resized to the higher res, 3D will still be 1024x768 but stretched to fit your screen.

Yeah, tell me about it....

Since someone has mentioned WWIIOL in here, I'll go play some now, since i have yet to be able to reach midway or the Jawa Sea from PH cos SH4 keeps crashing to desktop when in 1024TC, dropping out to 1 when deck watch spots something inane and i'll click on bridge icon to go check it out. In WWIIOL at least you can kill KILLER or DOC sometimes :)


Oh, right, System specs *o_0*:
Athlon XP3000+
2GB
X1600pro 512MB
WinXP SP2
Catalyst 7.2

[Gildor]

These two threads probably shouldn't have been merged. I understand people's gripes about FSAA, but I haven't actually picked-up or paid the balance on my reserved copy of SH4; and I just have one question for anybody who actually has the game. If I had the game loaded and set the game resolution to match the native resolution of my LCD monitor (24" @ 1920x1200), will the 3D part of the display be at 1920x1200, or will it be at 1024x768 & stretched to fit my monitor? If it is the latter, I'm going to try and get my deposit back and wait to see if this issue is ever resolved before even thinking about spending my money on this lump of loaf. :nope:
...it'll be the latter. Only your Interface, ie. the gauges and icons and message window will be resized to the higher res, 3D will still be 1024x768 but stretched to fit your screen.

Yeah, tell me about it....

Since someone has mentioned WWIIOL in here, I'll go play some now, since i have yet to be able to reach midway or the Jawa Sea from PH cos SH4 keeps crashing to desktop when in 1024TC, dropping out to 1 when deck watch spots something inane and i'll click on bridge icon to go check it out. In WWIIOL at least you can kill KILLER or DOC sometimes :)

Maybe I will go play WW2Online as well. It's been a few days. I got wacked by KILLER once too. But a few campaigns back I got him.

[DragonRR1]

These two threads probably shouldn't have been merged. I understand people's gripes about FSAA, but I haven't actually picked-up or paid the balance on my reserved copy of SH4; and I just have one question for anybody who actually has the game. If I had the game loaded and set the game resolution to match the native resolution of my LCD monitor (24" @ 1920x1200), will the 3D part of the display be at 1920x1200, or will it be at 1024x768 & stretched to fit my monitor? If it is the latter, I'm going to try and get my deposit back and wait to see if this issue is ever resolved before even thinking about spending my money on this lump of loaf. :nope:
Basically the 3D (view from the bridge etc.) is stretched to fit (from about 1024x768) but anything 2D such as Nav maps and menu's are at the full 1920x1200 resolution. The periscope view, to me personally, seems to be a slightly higher resolution...

Yes this is not really related to the FSAA issue. As far as I can see there is at least some AA on the screen (probably s/w AA) anyway. If you look at my original post and zoom in on the bigger picture there is some aliasing going on at the edges.
If they really are up-scaling a low resolution image, that might explain why there appears to be "some" AA going on. The resampling process would have a tendancy to soften things up a bit. This is not AA though, software or otherwise.

[img=http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5866/1024bj3.th.gif] (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1024bj3.gif)

Upscaling can be done with and without AA.. Regardless if you zoom in on the 1024x768 piccie in the link you can see some AA going on here and there, especially the rounded edge areas (The picture was taken at 1024x768 I haven't done any manual scaling up or down.). Of course it could be upscaling from an even lower resolution of course ;)

[nhall70]

These two threads probably shouldn't have been merged. I understand people's gripes about FSAA, but I haven't actually picked-up or paid the balance on my reserved copy of SH4; and I just have one question for anybody who actually has the game. If I had the game loaded and set the game resolution to match the native resolution of my LCD monitor (24" @ 1920x1200), will the 3D part of the display be at 1920x1200, or will it be at 1024x768 & stretched to fit my monitor? If it is the latter, I'm going to try and get my deposit back and wait to see if this issue is ever resolved before even thinking about spending my money on this lump of loaf. :nope:
Basically the 3D (view from the bridge etc.) is stretched to fit (from about 1024x768) but anything 2D such as Nav maps and menu's are at the full 1920x1200 resolution. The periscope view, to me personally, seems to be a slightly higher resolution...

Yes this is not really related to the FSAA issue. As far as I can see there is at least some AA on the screen (probably s/w AA) anyway. If you look at my original post and zoom in on the bigger picture there is some aliasing going on at the edges.
If they really are up-scaling a low resolution image, that might explain why there appears to be "some" AA going on. The resampling process would have a tendancy to soften things up a bit. This is not AA though, software or otherwise.

[img=http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5866/1024bj3.th.gif] (http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1024bj3.gif)

Upscaling can be done with and without AA.. Regardless if you zoom in on the 1024x768 piccie in the link you can see some AA going on here and there, especially the rounded edge areas (The picture was taken at 1024x768 I haven't done any manual scaling up or down.). Of course it could be upscaling from an even lower resolution of course ;)

I see what you mean. It looks like it's being applied in some places, but not in others.

I tell you, this is the wierdest graphics engine I've ever seen (not necessarily a good thing). It almost looks as if they're rendering the scene in layers and compositing it all back together at the very end.

[U-139]

Thanks for the replies fellas. So much has been said today that I'm not really sure what to believe. I think I'll be holding off on purchasing SH4 for now. Don't really see spending $50 on something like this, especially with how dishonest ubi's been about supporting widescreen res. I'll wait and see if it works itself out...hopefully it will. Maybe it'll be like R6 Vegas, and some friendly user will make a hack that supports a bunch of the (not quite so rare anymore) widescreen resolutions. :arrgh!:

[Paajtor]

Someone should sue them....Ubi, I mean. :()1:
Sue Ubi? Under what legal grounds?
I don't know, whatever...I'm no lawyer. :rotfl:

Anyway, I have no grounds to sue them myself, as I cancelled SH4.:cry:

[sjw985]

Extreme disappointment here. I can verify everything people have said about poor quality rendering at high resolution, as well as the ineffectiveness of AA. I'm trying to run 1920x1200 on a 37" LCD with a 7950 GX2, so the low rez 3D is REALLY killing me.

I also have the sound loop on torpedo hits. Audigy 2ZS.

I would get past the rendering issue in the short term IF AA worked well, but I would still expect the resolution issue to be fixed in an early patch. Unfortunately, I can't see clearly enough to even identify ship types visually. Nor can I see the gauges clearly in the control room except for the big depth gauge right in front of me.

It kills me because I see SO MUCH POTENTIAL in this sim even in the short couple of hours I have played it. But I will not go blind trying to stare at blurry gauges and looking at the blocks hanging in space that are supposedly ship superstructures. I zoom in and they are beautiful, even low-res. Zoom out... blocks.

Verdict: pretend I didn't buy it, put it on the shelf, come back after the first patch and/or after someone in the forum finds a resolution work around. Then - and only then - will I embrace SH4 once again.

[flintlock]

I can verify everything people have said about poor quality rendering at high resolution, as well as the ineffectiveness of AA. I'm trying to run 1920x1200 on a 37" LCD with a 7950 GX2, so the low rez 3D is REALLY killing me. Welcome to Subsim!

I have a feeling this particular issue of a fixed XGA resolution of 1024x768 scaling to higher resolutions may well be working as Ubi intended. I think the best way around this is to try and keep the resolution as close to 1024x768 as you can. The native res on my widescreen is 1680x1050, so I will likely get similar blocky graphics to what you're experiencing. Luckily I also have a 4:3 19" LCD that has a native res of 1280x1024, so I'll use that for SH4 as the quality degradation will be less evident as it's in the same aspect ratio and doesn't have as far to scale.

Not the ideal solution, but it's one I can live with.

[Onkel Neal]

Extreme disappointment here. I can verify everything people have said about poor quality rendering at high resolution, as well as the ineffectiveness of AA. I'm trying to run 1920x1200 on a 37" LCD with a 7950 GX2, so the low rez 3D is REALLY killing me.

I also have the sound loop on torpedo hits. Audigy 2ZS.

I would get past the rendering issue in the short term IF AA worked well, but I would still expect the resolution issue to be fixed in an early patch. Unfortunately, I can't see clearly enough to even identify ship types visually. Nor can I see the gauges clearly in the control room except for the big depth gauge right in front of me.

It kills me because I see SO MUCH POTENTIAL in this sim even in the short couple of hours I have played it. But I will not go blind trying to stare at blurry gauges and looking at the blocks hanging in space that are supposedly ship superstructures. I zoom in and they are beautiful, even low-res. Zoom out... blocks.

Verdict: pretend I didn't buy it, put it on the shelf, come back after the first patch and/or after someone in the forum finds a resolution work around. Then - and only then - will I embrace SH4 once again.

37 inch? That's pretty big, the game probably was not meant to be played on movie theaters :)

I got an e-mail from a guy who has a review copy, he writes for a major game magazine. He read this thread and wonders what the fuss is about.


Hi Neal,

So I'm curious to know what all the flap is about re SH4's graphics issues (as read on Subsim's and Ubi's message boards). I understand the FSAA thing (there's no in-game FSAA setting and forcing it at the videocard level doesn't seem to work—the jaggies are still there) but the "locked" 1024x768 thing doesn't make any sense at all. I know they did that with SH3 but I'm running SH4 at 1680x1050 on my 16:10 widescreen LCD monitor and there is no distortion or "stretching" of any kind at the GUI screen or the 3D screen. I have the screenshots to prove it too—everything's in 1680x1050 and they all look great (the occasional jaggy notwithstanding).

What the hell's everyone going on about? Do you and I have different builds than everyone else?



I asked him to send me a screen from his PC, here's what he sent. I converted the bmp to a jpg and compressed it a bit, but I think it looks fine.


(Gizzmoe, don't ban me for the giant screen, I won't do it again)
http://www.subsim.com/sh4/SH4Img@16-3-2007_14.20.13_828.jpg

[StandingCow]

Yea, thats a big reason I am not throwing a fit yet, I don't have the game so I haven't tried it for myself...

Thanks for the update neal :D

[cherbert]

I can see jaggies on that ship. Besides, its already been reported that the scope view seems to be slightly higher res or is running some kind of softening filter.

If you are on deck and use the binoculars you will also see the graphics seems to suddenly have some kind of aa/softening applied to 3D world.

That screenshot doesn't look much different to my experience at scope - what he needs to be looking at is the external view!!!

Whatever way you look at it the 3D rendering is 1024 x 768 despite what it may seem.

[Arrowhead2k1]

If the image is compressed, than it's not a clear representation of what it's going to look like fullsize. Show us none compressed images please. Use imageshack if you must.

[Onkel Neal]

You can see jaggies on the ship....ok, you're either going to have to leanr to live with it or pass on SH4. I've played quite a few games that had some jaggies, even games with AA, never lost any sleep over it. :)


Here's a shot from the exterior of the sub. Yes, the cable has some jagginess... again, I'm shocked to think this is a showstopper... but that's a decision everyone has to make for himself.


http://www.subsim.com/sh4/SH4Img@19-3-2007_13.54.20_328.jpg

[cherbert]

Another good way to prove it...

In your widescreen mode just move the camera around the command room...

then switch to 1024 x 768 and do the same...

you will see your field of view in the widescreen mode is far tighter and you feel more cramped in the command room. Why? Because in the wide modes they are zooming your the field of view to remove the need to have to stretch the 1024 x 768 to your widescreen display.

I hope you understand what I mean ;-)

[cherbert]

Neil, please understand these discussions aren't about jaggies anymore.. its about the simple fact that the 3D world you are seeing there is rendering at 1024 x 768 and not at the resolution of your instruments!

This is the basis of why everyone is getting upset.. if you switch to 1024 x 768 and take that same screenshot you they will be identical apart from your instruments will look stretched.

[tedhealy]

If the game truly can run at any res and it's not just scaling a smaller image, then running it on a 37" 1080p monitor would look gorgeous...as do nearly all games released today.

[sjw985]

Hi Neal,

Let me preface this by clarifying that I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller type of guy... I spent alot of time with SH3, read Subsim quite a bit, but never really had anything usful to contribute that had not already been covered in excruciating detail. That's a compliment to the quality of the board and the members!

I hate that my "first post" has to be a complaint, but the fact is my disappointment compelled me to comment.

Anyway, you are correct that the GUI and 2D components of the display are fine. They scale appropriately with resolution. The problem is that the actual "action" image is not showing the proper level of detail that should be associated with the extra pixels on a high-res display.

As suggested above, I ran SH4 in 1024x768 mode. The GUI/panel was appropriately upsized, but the action images looked perhaps a little better - still distorted, but more smooth, and in 4:3 or therabouts instead of widescreen. Basically what I would expect for 1024x768. In any other application that I have used (running the gamut from DLL'd SH3 to rFactor to FSX to Supreme Commander and more than I frankly care to admit) 1920x1200 would be a knock-your-socks-off improvement in detail and clarity - literally a VHS to HD-DVD type of come-to-Jesus rendering joy. That is DEFINITELY not happening here.

The attached screenshot is about right for a zoomed image. By the time you see the ship that close, you're well into your attack run. The problem is that due to the poor resolution, longer range (less zoomed) views are not good at all. Again, in a normal game or application upping the resolution should clear that up no questions asked. That dynamic is absolutely not at work here. I have tried.

I hope that this is something that "got broke" right before Gold and nobody caught it, but I suppose only time will tell. What is indisputable to me is that the program IS NOT rendering the quality that should be present at 1920x1200.

And it's one of those 37" Westinghouse 1080P displays... definitely the best "upgrade" I've ever made! :)

Anyway, here's to hoping that the devs or some smart guy in the Subsim community figures out how to make the renderer work properly.

Just my humble opinion, but I think the complainants actually have a point here.

[OddjobXL]

I don't know if these reports about scaling are correct. One guy, on another forum, who is a professional sim reviewer was responding to comments along these lines. He's using widescreen and high resolution and seems to think it's working fine in SH4 with no distorting or cropping. One point he made was that screenshots in 1024x768 32bit always come out at 2.3mb while his screenshots for SH4 in 1680x1050 are coming out at 5mb.

So...maybe there's something else at work here?

[nhall70]

Thanks for forwarding the shot Neal. It's helpful to see a full size screenshot regarding this matter.

I'm really not sure what to make of all this. I've seen shots that look pretty decent (lack of FSAA notwithstanding) and I've seen shots that look down right awful!

I don't think it's fair for someone to pull a screenshot of a game at it's worst possible moment and focus in on a game's weakest spot. All games have things they do well, and things they don't do well. It's the quality of the overall scene that matters most.

Based on what I've seen so far, it's very difficult to tell if SH4's fundamental rendering quality is up to snuff. At the very least, I think SH4 is doing some really wierd things regarding rendering and this worries me.

[cherbert]

I don't know if these reports about scaling are correct. One guy, on another forum, who is a professional sim reviewer was responding to comments along these lines. He's using widescreen and high resolution and seems to think it's working fine in SH4 with no distorting or cropping. One point he made was that screenshots in 1024x768 32bit always come out at 2.3mb while his screenshots for SH4 in 1680x1050 are coming out at 5mb.

So...maybe there's something else at work here?
Sigh. Which is exactly what would happen because the entire image is being upscaled to 1680x1050! What did he expect?

The point everyone is making is that the 3D is being rendered in a low resolution of 1024 x 768 and then simply being scaled/cropped to higher modes and widescreen ratios.

I'm gonna stay out the argument now because I'm getting bored explaining it. There are plenty of other people here who fully appreciate what is going on. I'll come back when its all patched up.

I'm by no means gonna chuck it in the bin - its still got promise, I'm just disapointed that with all the effort they went to with the graphical tweaks they didn't bother to give us true high resolution rendering so we can fully appreciate those said tweaks.

[malkuth74]

I don't know if these reports about scaling are correct. One guy, on another forum, who is a professional sim reviewer was responding to comments along these lines. He's using widescreen and high resolution and seems to think it's working fine in SH4 with no distorting or cropping. One point he made was that screenshots in 1024x768 32bit always come out at 2.3mb while his screenshots for SH4 in 1680x1050 are coming out at 5mb.

So...maybe there's something else at work here?

That is interesting. But a Pic at 1680 1050 is going to be bigger then a 1024 768. Remember people are saying the guages etc scale, but not the 3d.

[Ark]

One of my biggest gripes so far, is that with the Post-Processing Filter turned on, the darker colored objects look black. Not dark. Black.

[flintlock]

literally VHS a to HD-DVD type of come-to-Jesus rendering joy.
That bit almost had me spraying a mouthful of coffee on my monitor!

:D

[Onkel Neal]

Hi Neal,

Let me preface this by clarifying that I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller type of guy... I spent alot of time with SH3, read Subsim quite a bit, but never really had anything usful to contribute that had not already been covered in excruciating detail. That's a compliment to the quality of the board and the members!

I hate that my "first post" has to be a complaint, but the fact is my disappointment compelled me to comment.

Anyway, you are correct that the GUI and 2D componenets of the display are fine. They scale appropriately with resolution. The problem is that the actual "action" image is not showing the proper level of detail that should be associated with the extra pixels on a high-res display.

As suggested above, I ran SH4 in 1024x768 mode. The GUI/panel was appropriately upsized, but the action images looked perhaps a little better - still distorted, but more smooth, and in 4:3 or therabouts instead of widescreen. Basically what I would expect for 1024x768. In any other application that I have used (running the gamut from DLL'd SH3 to rFactor to FSX to Supreme Commander and more than I frankly care to admit) 1920x1200 would be a knock-your-socks-off improvement in detail and clarity - literally VHS a to HD-DVD type of come-to-Jesus rendering joy. That is DEFINITELY not happening here.

The attached screenshot is about right for a zoomed image. By the time you see the ship that close, you're well into your attack run. The problem is that due to the poor resolution, longer range (less zoomed) views are not good at all. Again, in a normal game or application upping the resolution should clear that up no questions asked. That dynamic is absolutely not at work here. I have tried.

I hope that this is something that "got broke" right before Gold and nobody caught it, but I suppose only time will tell. What is indisputable to me is that the program IS NOT rendering the quality that should be present at 1920x1200.

And it's one of those 37" Westinghouse 1080P displays... definitely the best "upgrade" I've ever made! :)

Anyway, here's to hoping that the devs or some smart guy in the Subsim community figures out how to make the renderer work properly.

Just my humble opinion, but I think the complainants actually have a point here.

Ok, I'll go along with it, especially since I'm pretty much a large-monitor-idiot-savant... minus the savant part. It would be great if this is something that broke in the last RCs before gold, and they can fix it, but I won't bet on it. Like I said in another post somewhere, seems like the SH series has always been a step behind in resolution choices. So, it appears one of the system requirement should be "not suitable for viewing on large monitors".

Thanks for the kindly introduction, you remind me why we started this website in the first place.

cheers
Neal

[Onkel Neal]

literally VHS a to HD-DVD type of come-to-Jesus rendering joy.
That bit almost had me spraying a mouthful of coffee on my monitor!

:D

Yeah? What size is your montior? When I spit coffee over something funny, I have to deliver the stream with pinpoint precision or it misses the monitor.

I'm feeling monitor-envy around here... :ping:

[XanderF]

I don't know if these reports about scaling are correct. One guy, on another forum, who is a professional sim reviewer was responding to comments along these lines. He's using widescreen and high resolution and seems to think it's working fine in SH4 with no distorting or cropping. One point he made was that screenshots in 1024x768 32bit always come out at 2.3mb while his screenshots for SH4 in 1680x1050 are coming out at 5mb.

So...maybe there's something else at work here?

That is interesting. But a Pic at 1680 1050 is going to be bigger then a 1024 768. Remember people are saying the guages etc scale, but not the 3d.

Exactly.

Here is how to see this - take a screenshot at 1600x1200. Then, take a screenshot at 800x600, and using Photoshop, resize it to 1600x1200. Notice how the '3d world' looks identical between the two images, and the only thing different is the gauges? That shouldn't be the case!!

Now, using the SH3 'fix', do the same thing in SH3. Take a screenshot at 800x600 and resize it to 1600x1200, then another at true in-game 1600x1200. Notice how they look very different. The "true" 1600x1200 shot will look MUCH sharper.