Deck gun damage.

[Reece]

Hi, After 4 days patrolling the only thing I just came across was a Coastal Tanker, & it took 55 shells to sink it!:-? Could someone point to where this can be changed please!:D Shipping in GWX is rather quiet!!:yep:

[Mush Martin]

got to sticky mod tools

get mini tweeker

and other tools

in mini tweek you will find

sub guns dat. and shells

settings are in there

read documentation

have a blast

[Reece]

Hi, I had minitweaker but wasn't sure of the file, thanks:up:

Edit: Nothing in there to do with damage!!:-?

[azn_132]

Its ethier guns.sim,GUN_SUB.sim,shells.sim, or shells.zon.

[Reece]

None of those either!:cry:

[Mush Martin]

not damage Hitting power

damage model is local to the ship your hitting

what you set here is how hard you hit.

Shell zon.

min effect max effect.

sub guns

rate and projectile speed. and reload time.

[Reece]

Well I don't know what has happened but now I have no ammo!:cry:
So I assume min & max effect in shell zon will be the ones to adjust?:yep: once I figure out the problem above!

[Reece]

I just reinstalled GWX then patched to 1.02 & in naval accademy - Artillery, there is still no ammo, could someone please help!!:cry::yep:

[joea]

Try manning your gun then clicking on the shell icon...it simulates having to prep the gun.

[NiKuTa]

Hi, After 4 days patrolling the only thing I just came across was a Coastal Tanker, & it took 55 shells to sink it!:-? Could someone point to where this can be changed please!:D Shipping in GWX is rather quiet!!:yep:
Shiping in GWX are ... ?? i dont understand this :(.
But if you said that ships in GWX are hard to sunk, you mistake a little :).

[Reece]

I have been doing gun tests here & next thing, no ammo, I have reinstalled the second time, now all ok, I think it had something to do with the zones.cfg file?:damn:
The shipping I was referring to is the traffic, in 4 days a coastal tanker is all I had come across!:-?

[Reece]

What is going on (in GWX), when going to Accademy - Artillery, then place 3 men to the deck gun, man them manually, there is no ammo, If I set the men to fire automaically they have the magic touch & fire away, then if I man the guns manually the ammo is there!!:-? This has to be a fault!
Could someone else do a test please, I don't want to keep searching for a problem that I created if it is a fault with GWX!:yep:
Thanks.

Edit: What I was origionally testing for, damage caused by deck gun, is still there, shell zon has no effect, I fired 60 shells into a coastal merchant & still couldn't destroy it!:down: Gave up on trying to sink it with deck gun!!!:nope::nope: If anyone can offer some advise hear I would appreciate it.

[Reece]

Summing up, I have edited the following:
Shells.zon
zones.cfg
guns.zon
GUNS_SUB.zon
None of these seem to have any effect on the damage to a ship, a coastal tanker will still take around 60 shots to sink and a C2 around 100 shells!!:cry: Most frustrating!!:cry:

[Jimbuna]

If your installation is faultless there should be absolutely no problem with sinking merchants......in fact some people might say it's quite easy. I would suggest you aim below the waterline along the length of the hull to simulate flooding in as many compartments as possible :arrgh!:

[danlisa]

Summing up, I have edited the following:
Shells.zon
zones.cfg
guns.zon
GUNS_SUB.zon
None of these seem to have any effect on the damage to a ship, a coastal tanker will still take around 60 shots to sink and a C2 around 100 shells!!:cry: Most frustrating!!:cry:

Hi Reece, IIRC there is a .zon file for EVERY vessel. So you need to find the .zon file for the coastal tanker and the C2 and edit those. Basically you are looking to reduce the hit points on the zones of each vessel.

Oh, shoot, did you remember to remove the backup copy that mini-tweaker makes each time you edit a file. The changes will not work with the backup in the same folder.

[Reece]

Jim, I have actually installed 3 times now & all are the same, & I always aim just below waterline, so that you see an explosion as well as sea spray.:-?
Dan, Since I have tried everything else It is probably the ship zon file, the testing I did was to use JSGME testing with various stock SH3 1.4b files, but I didn't know about a backup in the same folder will cause the new edited version not to work, so even though it's a different name the game will still go for the old one? - Crazy!!:doh:
Do you know how I can edit the zon file, in particular the hit points?:D
Thanks again for the help guys!:up:

[Cheapskate]

Realised after several abortive and frustrating attempts at the Naval Artillery mission that my mistake was firing until I got the " she's going down" message.

With the new damage model in GWX, the target has often taken critical damage much earlier...maybe after as few as 5 or 6 waterline hits... and will sink if given enough time.

Have given up trying to fire the gun myself, now delegate this to 1WO and the gun crew. I just concentrate on observing the results and steering the vessel into a reasonable range - 1000/1500 metres seems OK. If the target shows any signs of slowing, listing, or settling down at bow or stern, I instruct WO to cease fire. Then change to another target (if one is in range) or go after it if isn't.

This works just fine and I never fail to sink all 5 targets...sometimes with as many as 40 (or more), shells left in the magazine,

[danlisa]

Dan, Since I have tried everything else It is probably the ship zon file, the testing I did was to use JSGME testing with various stock SH3 1.4b files, but I didn't know about a backup in the same folder will cause the new edited version not to work, so even though it's a different name the game will still go for the old one? - Crazy!!:doh: I'm afraid so, the only way to make your changes stick is to remove the backup.

Do you know how I can edit the zon file, in particular the hit points?:D
Thanks again for the help guys!:up: Ok, there should be .zon files supplied with Mini-Tweaker for each vessel. The tricky part is that they may or may not be GWX compatible. I'm not that sure so I will have to defer to someone else. Maybe VonHelsching as he reworked all the GWX damage files.

[Reece]

Ah .... so VonHelsching is to blame for all my frustrations!:D You are probably right cheapskate (gee I'd change this name if I were you), due to dd's around at the time I couldn't wait! I had to leave, so no renown!:cry: Dan, I didn't think minitweaker had the zon files for any of the ships, only those found in the Library folder, trying to dig up standard zon files for each new ship would be quite a job, but what of the other files, sim etc!!:roll: Hmmm may be not doable!:damn: Boo Hoo!!

[Morts]

Summing up, I have edited the following:
Shells.zon
zones.cfg
guns.zon
GUNS_SUB.zon
None of these seem to have any effect on the damage to a ship, a coastal tanker will still take around 60 shots to sink and a C2 around 100 shells!!:cry: Most frustrating!!:cry:
coastel tanker 60 shells? fire 5-20 shells below the waterline and it will sink
C2 100 shells ?
fire 10-30 shells below the water line and it will sink

[danlisa]

MT does have .zon files for ships.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4271/mtfv2.th.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mtfv2.jpg)

I'm no expert with these damage zones, but I'm pretty sure that certain class merchants share files. I think you need to find the proper designation for the vessels you want to change. For example - NKC3.zon might be for the C3 Cargo (Large Cargo) *shrug*

[Reece]

Oh the pain - Oh the pain!!:rotfl:You must have a later version of mini tweake, I don't have listings for any ships, I will check with timetravellers site!:up:
Cheers.

[danlisa]

Only one vesion of MT mate.:up:

But you need the Tweak Files which you can get from TT's site.(just below the MT d/l)

[Mush Martin]

Realised after several abortive and frustrating attempts at the Naval Artillery mission that my mistake was firing until I got the " she's going down" message.

With the new damage model in GWX, the target has often taken critical damage much earlier...maybe after as few as 5 or 6 waterline hits... and will sink if given enough time.

Have given up trying to fire the gun myself, now delegate this to 1WO and the gun crew. I just concentrate on observing the results and steering the vessel into a reasonable range - 1000/1500 metres seems OK. If the target shows any signs of slowing, listing, or settling down at bow or stern, I instruct WO to cease fire. Then change to another target (if one is in range) or go after it if isn't.

This works just fine and I never fail to sink all 5 targets...sometimes with as many as 40 (or more), shells left in the magazine,

Reece I think from the symptoms your doing everything right
it just seems like you havent clicked on the ammo icon like they said.
you should be working

[Cheapskate]

Yes MM, I reckon you're right there :up:

Seem to remember that I had to click on the shell to get any ammo.. but that was a while ago. I only tried using the gun myself about twice before realising that the gun crew got better results than I did. They did miss more but seemed to get more decent waterline shots in.

The "wait and see what happens" technique works in exactly the same way with torpedos.... although I do still fire them myself.

If you can get about 6 telling shots home with the gun, or a torpedo hit or two, chances are something favourable is going to happen. The target will almost definitely slow down and become a straggler. Maybe it'll stop or, if you're really lucky, sink.

Anyhow, Reece why the devil were you doing surface gunnery with DDs in the offing?? Wouldn't catch me doing that :rotfl:

[Mush Martin]

Thats the other thing reece back as long ago as Silent service on 8 bit nintendo I would put in a single fish to soften the target and finish with
guns as a major technique of ammo extension I just never think about
it anymore.

[Reece]

Unless it's rough seas then 2 fish!:smug: Had to say that MM!:rotfl:
About the ammo, right through SilentHunterIII, on a campaign, I have never had to click on ammo before, it always worked, maybe this is only in Artillery tutorial.:roll:
Cheapskate, I don't have the gods eye on and although I knew there were DD's in the area after four days & this being the only contact, I was going to sink this mother!:D
Dan, I probably would have grabbed the wrong thing again!:yep:
Thanks all!:rock:

[Mush Martin]

Unless it's rough seas then 2 fish!:smug: Had to say that MM!:rotfl:
About the ammo, right through SilentHunterIII, on a campaign, I have never had to click on ammo before, it always worked, maybe this is only in Artillery tutorial.:roll:
Cheapskate, I don't have the gods eye on and although I knew there were DD's in the area after four days & this being the only contact, I was going to sink this mother!:D
Dan, I probably would have grabbed the wrong thing again!:yep:
Thanks all!:rock:

Its not like that in vanilla but it is a gwx thing you should also have less
ammo icons showing now only the ammo you have on each station shows
an Icon.
in vanilla it would have showed all four types but highlighted what you have.

[Reece]

Yes I did notice that the HE shell is all that is shown, I haven't checked but AA guns now only show their ammo!:up:
I checked the ships zon files & they are the same as stock (except new ships) so nothing to change here, am doing some changes to the the hit points in Shells.zon file now (mustn't forget the backup), see what that does!:yep:

[Reece]

Atlast, it was the Shells.zon, replacing with stock (hit points weren't really that much different) has reduced the ammo used from 60 shells on a coastal merchant to 40 (roughly) shells, many below waterline, before getting the "NA! She's going down", even then it still takes a while to sink, now I like that!!:D:up:
Thanks all.

[Cheapskate]

Glad to hear you're getting better results now after reversing your tweak/s :)

40 shells still a bit high though IMHO. Morts thinks so too (about 12 posts back). Reckon you could reduce that considerably if you held fire and watched and waited after firing about half that number.

Mind you we're not the only ones questioning your tactics. Was in BDU HQ couple of days ago and overheard the Big Man ( KD, no less ) talking to your Korvettenkapitan.

" Reece has reported sinking a canoe, a fairly large row-boat and two harbour buoys with expediture of 279 rounds 88mm HE. This reckless pursuit of renown will cripple our war effort more than the Ami and Tommy air raids combined. When or, in view of his use of deck gun when enemy DD's are nearby, IF he returns, give him a desk job. ABER NICHT BEI UNS. Wilhelmshaven Municipal Waste Disposal Unit has need of a supervisor. Ensure Matrosen Reece gets the post."

Anyway all this deck gun business may soon be a thing of the past. Rubini is going to do a fix http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102096&page=40
post #791.

He's going to fix the automatic surfacing feature in GWX too. Then I can use the extended RDF loop without being butchered by an Armed Trawler like what happened to me yesterday!

Cheers

[Morts]

Atlast, it was the Shells.zon, replacing with stock (hit points weren't really that much different) has reduced the ammo used from 60 shells on a coastal merchant to 40 (roughly) shells, many below waterline, before getting the "NA! She's going down", even then it still takes a while to sink, now I like that!!:D:up:
Thanks all.
dont shoot untill it sink

fire 7-10 shells
wait some times (2 hours maybe) game time
if its listing give it more time
but if it doesnt go down
well....fire 5-8 shells

and repeat:up:

[Cheapskate]

@ Morts

genau :up:

[NiKuTa]

Ship are to easy to sunk by a deck gun in GWX :(. Few shells and ship is sunking. Once i sunk a ship when i hit him only once, and big bala boom :(. Ship 20000 BRT and less them 20-30 hits :/ ships 2000-3000 BRT and less them 10 hits :(.

[Cheapskate]

I am sure it depends where you hit them. Your single shot must have hit something volatile like aviation fuel or explosives or something.

Wouldn't say ships were very hard to sink with deck-gun except that tramp steamer directly in front of you in the Schiffsartillerieschule exercise in Academy.

That seems to take far too many hits before sinking ......the C2 is easier.

Doesn't seem right somehow :hmm:

[Jimbuna]

I am sure it depends where you hit them. Your single shot must have hit something volatile like aviation fuel or explosives or something.

Wouldn't say ships were very hard to sink with deck-gun except that tramp steamer directly in front of you in the Schiffsartillerieschule exercise in Academy.

That seems to take far too many hits before sinking ......the C2 is easier.

Doesn't seem right somehow :hmm:

The problem is tramp steamers always carry a special cargo.............cork :D :arrgh!:

[Cheapskate]

The problem is tramp steamers always carry a special cargo.............cork :D :arrgh!:

:o CORK!!! Mein Gott. That's fiendish!!

:hmm: Most cork comes from Spain!!

Reaches for phone:

" von Ribbentrop have a serious word with Franco. This dangerous trade must be stopped. OUR KALEUN'S RENOWN INCREASES MUST BE PRESERVED AT ALL COSTS "

[Morts]

I am sure it depends where you hit them. Your single shot must have hit something volatile like aviation fuel or explosives or something.

Wouldn't say ships were very hard to sink with deck-gun except that tramp steamer directly in front of you in the Schiffsartillerieschule exercise in Academy.

That seems to take far too many hits before sinking ......the C2 is easier.

Doesn't seem right somehow :hmm:

The problem is tramp steamers always carry a special cargo.............cork :D :arrgh!:
:o
oh my god............"dønitz...we have a problem":rotfl:

[Reece]

Reece has reported sinking a canoe, a fairly large row-boat and two harbour buoys with expediture of 279 rounds 88mm HE
I was gratefull that you didn't mention to Bdu that I expended all rounds to my service revolver as well!:up:

The only reason I keep pounding the ship with shells is that I want to get the "NA: She's going down", so that I can get my renown & then continue on mission! I should have a little more patience!:yep: Often it doesn't pay to hang around.;)

[Cheapskate]

I was gratefull that you didn't mention to Bdu that I expended all rounds to my service revolver as well!:up:
:huh: Strewth! You didn't ... did you? Really ? :rotfl:

Well, if you didn't tell BDU about the shell wastage. Who did? Wasn't me....I was ashore remember! Besides, I'm one of the good guys. I only listen to Die Fahne Hoch and S.A Marschiert because they are rousing tunes and get the circulation going in the mornings. I'm also hiding an American airman back home in the family cow shed. Strange guy, sardonic, chews gum a lot and wears a baseball glove.

I'd take a closer look at your Funker if I were you. Specially if he dresses smartly, is always clean shaven and has slicked back hair. If this description fits, check his records. If it turns out he was brought up in South America and returned to Germany to fulfill his duty to the Fatherland...suggest immediate transfer to the aft torpedo room...and right off your boat when/IF you get back.

AAARGH better change tack now. Beginning to believe this scenario is actually true :roll:

Yes , did realise you were trying to hurry up the SGD message and get renown for sinking. But you might have got that anyway without risking life or limb ( see Morts post no 37) . The GWX damage model is very fair, I think - cork filled tramps aside!!. A stricken vessel will often take 5 or 6 kilometers either to slow down, stop or sink and that's just in the training missions...probably more in career mode???. Creates some nice decision making dilemmas......do I carry on expending my deck gun ammo, or give it another torp, for a quick kill. Or just shadow and hope to hear (or see ) it going down, or close in for the kill when the hydrophones indicate that the escorts have left! The choice, as they say, is yours.

Crikey, Reece, here's me lecturing you on tactics. Bet you've seen more SH3 active service than I have. Don't get outside of the Kanal in GWX although have been known to zoom out to Helgoland for the weekend...but only in WAC. :D

:up:

[Reece]

Well although I'm retired and play almost everyday, I have only ever completed a campaign once! As quick as I set off on a patrol I think of a new mod or find a new mod, or edit the campaign files or change the sound files etc etc & usually have to start campaign over again and again,:lol: sometimes having soooo many mods is too much of a good thing ..... but I can't seem to help myself!!:damn:
I'd take a closer look at your Funker if I were you. Specially if he dresses smartly, is always clean shaven and has slicked back hair. If this description fits, check his records. If it turns out he was brought up in South America and returned Germany to fulfill his duty to the Fatherland...suggest immediate transfer to the aft torpedo room...and right off your boat when/IF you get back. Yes I checked his service records & guess what his first name is .......Bernard! Lucky I expended all my pistol ammo or I may have had an unscheduled visit to see the Fuehrer!:rotfl:
Cheers.

[Cheapskate]

Well although I'm retired and play almost everyday, I have only ever completed a campaign once!

Lucky you...you got to finish a career. Despite getting the game on release day I never have.:oops: Mostly my own fault though. Refused to upgrade to WinXP because game ran fine on Win98. More accurately, it did until first patch came out, then it wouldn't save mid-patrol. Was into 1942 on a career then, but version 1.0.was so buggy I just gave up. Still played but never on a full career basis. About 8 months ago bowed to the inevitable and got XP.

Since then, we've had all the major mods and all the other add-ons. Like you , I spend all my time tinkering with this and that never starting a career except for test purposes. Way things are going atm doesn't look like that's going to change much either. Some great stuff around now - definitely irresistible. Know where Oscar Wilde was coming from when he said " I can resist anything but temptation ".
Still at least I got pretty competent on GWX training missions. Glad I did, can appreciate how good their damage model is.

Yes I checked his service records & guess what his first name is .......Bernard! Lucky I expended all my pistol ammo or I may have had an unscheduled visit to see the Fuhrer!:rotfl:
Cheers.

Now why aren't I surprised at that.:lol: Still if you had kept one cartridge for a rainy day, and Bernard was no more, your interview with Der Fuehrer may have been a pleasant one. My guess is Ritterkreutz at least, maybe even the Gold Cross.

Prost :up:

[Reece]

Still if you had kept one cartridge for a rainy day, and Bernard was no more, your interview with Der Fuehrer may have been a pleasant one. My guess is Ritterkreutz at least, maybe even the Gold Cross.
OooH, ya think! wonder if I have a spare clip!!:rotfl: