Tracking SSBNs

[nsquidc]

DW is my first exposure to modern sub sims. (Old SH III player.) Finally starting to get a basic grasp of TMA and other aspects of the sim, love it!

I'm having a bit of trouble on missions that require long term tracking of SSBNs. The issue is that they are usually clipping along around 15 kts or so. In order to keep up, my hull and sphericals are completely washed out, and my TA also has significant noise. To make matters worse, if I'm following along at a similar course, the SSBN tends to be outside the coverage of my TAs, thus forcing me to either rely on the already washed out non-TAs or track on large angles that that bring my TA into coverage. Tracking at large angles makes me travel longer to keep up, forcing me to increase speed, which worsens the passive sonar situation...

Do you guys have some tips on passive detection that would help? I've read through the TACMAN and Notfallmappe (which are great!), but am still a bit frustrated.

Best regards,

~NSC

[NefariousKoel]

Perhaps tracking them while running on a parallel course so as to use your TA to keep an ear on the Boomer. If you have two TAs on your boat, you should use the one built for higher speeds.


I've actually "tracked" hostile boats while travelling directly ahead of them before. :lol:

[nsquidc]

Most scenarios that I've played usually place me behind them initially, so a parallel course on a fast boomer ~5 nm out would still place me outside of my TAs coverage. Furthermore, even my starboard array has significant self noise at 15 kts, and washes out completely at 16-17 kts.

I've tried doing this: getting a good TMA solution at 5 kts, go beneath layer and rush towards the target all ahead / flank (diving deep enough to avoid cavitation), then slowing down again to reacquire the target. Problem with this approach is that I'm usually counterdetected (even if not cavitating), or the boomer has changed course in the interim and I'm far off target.

~NSC

[ASWnut101]

What Submarine are you using? If it's a 688i, do these steps:

1) Get as accurate of a movement solution from TMA as humanly possible.

2) Get as accurate of a speed solution from DEMON as humanly possible.

3) If the boomer is heading at you head on, get slow, deep (but still in the same layer as her!) and along the same course the boat is at.

3.1) If the boomer is heading distinctly to the left or right, (a basic skill in geometry with the eyes is critical here) plot a course that would bring you behind the boat by about a few miles or so.

[Training]-So, let's say that you are heading 180 degrees, at 5 knots, and in the same layer as the boomer. The boomer is directly south of you, heading 090 degrees at 15 knots, with an estimated range of 8,000 yards. With the boomer in this configuration, It would take it 1 hour to go 15 NM, or 30380 Yards. Now, assuming you are educated well enough in geometry, use the Pathagorean Theorem to get your intercept point; the point where the two of you would crash into each other. The only thing is, you want to be BEHIND him, not his new hood ornament. So, aim for a point about 3,000 yards behind it, and set speed for 14 knots. That will put you behind him.


4) Once in his baffles, match his speed.

5) Try your best to stay within 2,000 yards of him or so, so you will have use of your High Frequency Sonar.

6) Use the HF sonar to track him!

[To be]

Don't try that against a modern sub with a towed array though. Pretty much only use that tactic on an Xia.

[Dr.Sid]

Use of HF is nice but unrealistic .. what is used IRL (AFAIK) is moving fast for a while, and then stopping for listening. You should be concerned with DEMON, because you want to know if SSBN changed speed. Change in heading is easier to spot, especially if you are tracking SSBN from behind.

If SSBN goes 15kts, go 20 (totally blind), but each minute or two order stop, mark LOB, check DEMON, and again go 20kts. Sphere sensor is best for this. If it is not possible to detect SSBN on sphere, use the same technique with TA, make longer runs because you will need longer stops (slowdowns). When 'running' go at straight at the collision point. Shortly before stopping turn 30 degrees to side. Sub turns better and faster when moving fast. Also use TA deployed only to 1/3, so it aligns faster.

Keep such distance that you can hear nicely. Don't get too close. There is no need.

SubGuru's first mission of 'Red October' is great mission for this tactic. But beware 'crazy ivan' ! :|\\

[ASWnut101]

Don't try that against a modern sub with a towed array though. Pretty much only use that tactic on an Xia.


First, almost all boomers have just plain crappy sonar. I've gotten withing 5,000 yards of a Delta IV in a 688i without being detected. And at 15 knots, the TA is prettymuch blind, or deaf in this case.:know:

[To be]

The ohio has the same towed array as the 688(i) in LWAMI, so it can't be two bad. And the other SSBNs share arrays with some SSNs, so same. I am not sure the AI has TAs at all in stock. :nope:

[loynokid]

DW is my first exposure to modern sub sims. (Old SH III player.) Finally starting to get a basic grasp of TMA and other aspects of the sim, love it!

I'm having a bit of trouble on missions that require long term tracking of SSBNs. The issue is that they are usually clipping along around 15 kts or so. In order to keep up, my hull and sphericals are completely washed out, and my TA also has significant noise. To make matters worse, if I'm following along at a similar course, the SSBN tends to be outside the coverage of my TAs, thus forcing me to either rely on the already washed out non-TAs or track on large angles that that bring my TA into coverage. Tracking at large angles makes me travel longer to keep up, forcing me to increase speed, which worsens the passive sonar situation...

Do you guys have some tips on passive detection that would help? I've read through the TACMAN and Notfallmappe (which are great!), but am still a bit frustrated.

Best regards,

~NSC


I don't play boomer tracking missions very much, but if it were up to me, i would use a sprint and drift technique. I would try this right behind him in his baffles so that he dosent hear you but then when you get 2 nm or so away from him, just change your speed to his speed, and he should be close enough, where even with him going very fast, you should still be able pick up on his noise.

[Kapitan]

I track boomers a fair bit, your best tactic is to be slightly deeper and to one side but behind if its american SSBN your tracking, if its russian then go ahead of it by about 2nm.

Never ever stay at the same depth as the enamy submarine if it turns you have little to no chance of stopping yourself and turning, if your below him he can ride right over you otherwise your going to slam into him (if your behind).

I will generaly track american boats from the rear to the left hand side about 600 yards - 1000 yards behind where all three of my arrays can hear him and i have a good HF visual.

A boomer traveling at 15 knots is totaly blind and will make so much noise you might as well put a massive arrow saying here i am on it. most boomers i track will generaly not go above 8 knots unless 1) fired on 2) they detect you.

its even harder to track under ice as you then have a massive new problem, in all ive only tracked 2 ohio class SSBN's sucsessfully 1 vangaurd class (SC) a few french boats chinese xia and a han and a fair few others but where i normaly play its only me and other SSN's.

if you want a MP game on it then PM me :D

[loynokid]

I track boomers a fair bit, your best tactic is to be slightly deeper and to one side but behind if its american SSBN your tracking, if its russian then go ahead of it by about 2nm.

Never ever stay at the same depth as the enamy submarine if it turns you have little to no chance of stopping yourself and turning, if your below him he can ride right over you otherwise your going to slam into him (if your behind).

I will generaly track american boats from the rear to the left hand side about 600 yards - 1000 yards behind where all three of my arrays can hear him and i have a good HF visual.

A boomer traveling at 15 knots is totaly blind and will make so much noise you might as well put a massive arrow saying here i am on it. most boomers i track will generaly not go above 8 knots unless 1) fired on 2) they detect you.

its even harder to track under ice as you then have a massive new problem, in all ive only tracked 2 ohio class SSBN's sucsessfully 1 vangaurd class (SC) a few french boats chinese xia and a han and a fair few others but where i normaly play its only me and other SSN's.

if you want a MP game on it then PM me :D


Great thinking Here :up:

[Kapitan]

Don't try that against a modern sub with a towed array though. Pretty much only use that tactic on an Xia.


First, almost all boomers have just plain crappy sonar. I've gotten withing 5,000 yards of a Delta IV in a 688i without being detected. And at 15 knots, the TA is prettymuch blind, or deaf in this case.:know:

It doesnt surprise me the delta IV in game doesnt have a TA hence why he cant hear you and if your both at 15 knots then there no hope he will hear you at all, infact you could march the philomonic orchestra churning out god save the queen on amplifyers and the thing still wont know your there.

688i would be seriously deaf at 15knots one of the TA might work but wont give good reads but tracking russian subs in DW is a piece of piss.

[nsquidc]

Sprint and drift works great for me when it's a one-on-one 688(i) vs. boomer (esp a Delta IV.)

The problem for me is when there's a frigate hanging around as well. (Quite common if you are tracking a boomer as it leaves port.) The sprinting part generally gets me counter-detected, even if I'm under layer. I suppose travelling 20 kts, even if you are not cavitating, still generates significant noise.

~NSC

[ASWnut101]

Unless you've got a Seawolf.:yep:

[Dr.Sid]

Group tactics are made to counterdetect you. There is no general rule how to overcome them.

[zeropoint]

Kaptain,

Why would you want to be behind American boomers if they are more likely to deploy TA?

Just curious, thanks.

[Kapitan]

ive re read what i wrote and my bad i was mistaken what i was ment to say is if your tracking a russian go behind to one side if your tracking an american be in front or on top or below but to one side prefrence being in front and off to the left of her bow.

Sorry my bad.