I hate the RDF Loop in GWX 1.02!

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Im on the brige and have this RDF lood roteing in front of me. I hate it! Its anoying and gets in my way. Is there a way to lower it or something? :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

[mr chris]

Well if you hate it that much go back to playing with the Dec 23rd corrections.;)

[danlisa]

I like it.:yep: Another broken feature that is now fixed.

It is a shame however that there is no 'trigger' available to raise or lower it.
Ref has already stated as much in another thread.

[irish1958]

WS
I suspect that during WWII, the loop was always up during surface running, as it extended the "view" exponicially. It would be a pity to miss a convoy just over the horizon just because it spoiled your view of an empty ocean.:damn::damn:

By the way, do your missions work with GWX v1.02?

[WilhelmSchulz.]

@ irish1958
Yes they should. :hmm:

[ref]

Im on the brige and have this RDF lood roteing in front of me. I hate it! Its anoying and gets in my way. Is there a way to lower it or something? :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
To be absolutelly honest I don't like it either :D , I've just made it because the amount of requests, normally the DF antenna should be higher than it's in GWX, but due to the inhability to lower it, if I made them in the correct position they'll stick out of water at PD.

I'll make a lowered DF antenna version to enable it with JSGME.
Expect the release by Sunday.

Ref

[bigboywooly]

WS
I suspect that during WWII, the loop was always up during surface running, as it extended the "view" exponicially. It would be a pity to miss a convoy just over the horizon just because it spoiled your view of an empty ocean.:damn::damn:

By the way, do your missions work with GWX v1.02?

Any that contain the AMM need it changing to a type=100
Also take note of the S and Q class entry dates

Other than that nothing else was changed to cause a problem

[STEED]

I like it, now I can string out a washing line and hang up my skivvy's. :lol:

[ref]

I like it, now I can string out a washing line and hang up my skivvy's. :lol:

The problem is that they'll be twisted.

Ref

[STEED]

I like it, now I can string out a washing line and hang up my skivvy's. :lol:

The problem is that they'll be twisted.

Ref

Outdoor fresh air spinner. :lol:

[JU_88]

OOHHH STOP MOANING!!! :D

Dont understand why the hell people are complaining about a fix of all things!
makes no sense to me, :doh: as the hoop is just a nice touch (eyecandy) that dont effect game play, its not like it obscures your UZO view or something.

No ones going to miss a Sh1tting convoy because of the hoop!!! :rotfl: (excuse my french)

Its just that some are not used to it, I reckon if the hoop had been in stock, no one would have complained about it really.

Well i like it anyway - so thanks MR REF for your hard work. :up:

[ref]

so thanks MR Anvart for your hard work. :up:

:huh:

Ref

[mr chris]

JU Matey Ref is the creater and brains behind the loop apearing in GWX. :yep::up:

[melnibonian]

Ref I'm sorry if I'm wrong but wasn't you that did the rotating antena mod?

[JU_88]

Oops :o post edited (sorry Ref)

[ref]

We (Anvart and I) where working on the antennas at the same time, after the release of GWX, I realized that Anvart's approach for raising/lowering was very good, so I took the Idea and implement it for the 1.02 patch, adapting it so the fixed radars can also be used (FUMo29), although I use Anvarts aproach (he's idea of using a dial controller is brilliant :up: ) I've reworked most of the watch towers models to make it work with both types of radar.
The DF antenna implemented in GWX is my work, totally different from Anvart's, to be clear I'm not saying my mod is better than his, just that we used different methodologies.

Ref

[Anvart]

JU Matey Ref is the creater and brains behind the loop apearing in GWX. :yep::up:
Mr Chris.
Yes, Ref there is one of the best modders of this forum (especially HexEdit).
I very much respect with its and its hard work.
But I should mention that fact, that first DF antenna rotation mod for GWX, have been made by me and published 12/21/2006.
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7851/oldbd6.gif

[Anvart]

...
The DF antenna implemented in GWX is my work, totally different from Anvart's, to be clear I'm not saying my mod is better than his, just that we used different methodologies.

Ref
I absolutely agree.

[ref]

But I should mention that fact, that first DF antenna rotation mod for GWX, have been made by me and published 12/21/2006.
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Anvart, I'm not denying that fact, but the official DF antenna rotation included in GWX is my version, I'll say it again so it's clear, my method of doing it is no better than yours, just different.

Ref

[JU_88]

Well thank you both.
hey ref, I know youre a busy man :lol: but....
you never replied to my PM regarding turrets :oops:
not that it hurt my feelings or anything :cry:

;)

[Anvart]

But I should mention that fact, that first DF antenna rotation mod for GWX, have been made by me and published 12/21/2006.
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/font]

... but the official DF antenna rotation included in GWX is my version, ...

Ref
I do not understand in what distinction, but I do not argue with it. http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9845/iconabuselv4.gif
I wish success you.
:up:

[mr chris]

JU Matey Ref is the creater and brains behind the loop apearing in GWX. :yep::up: Mr Chris.
Yes, Ref there is one of the best modders of this forum (especially HexEdit).
I very much respect with its and its hard work.
But I should mention that fact, that first DF antenna rotation mod for GWX, have been made by me and published 12/21/2006.


:oops:Sorry about that Anvart will remember that in future. :yep:

[ref]

Well thank you both.
hey ref, I know youre a busy man :lol: but....
you never replied to my PM regarding turrets :oops:
not that it hurt my feelings or anything :cry:

;)

I didn't have time to look at a solution for the animation problem, don't worry I haven't forgot you :D , hopefully I'll have some time to work on that the weekend.

Ref

[Hartmann]

I love DF :up: antenna, it ads a lot of atmosphere and is a broken feature forget by dev team like other radars and dolphins.

[Txema]

I love DF :up: antenna, it ads a lot of atmosphere and is a broken feature forget by dev team like other radars and dolphins.


Ditto !!!

Ref, Anvart, thank you very much for your excellent work !!!


Txema

[ReallyDedPoet]

I love DF :up: antenna, it ads a lot of atmosphere and is a broken feature forget by dev team like other radars and dolphins.

Love this:up:

[d@rk51d3]

I've found that when I dive, the antenna dissapears / retracts, and pops back up again when I surface. While it is a bit distracting, I love the overall effect. Well Done.:up:

[Venatore]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. This is an accurate addition to the overall gaming experience. To have this on the conning tower (rotating) as it should be is what its all about. I understand that you are entitled to your own opinion, but how can you hate this device that was real and used by the U-boats. But if you want it shoved away thats your right too, but U-657 is keeping it !


I would like to thank the developer who created this.

Some lite reading to make up your own mind.


Radio direction finders of German U-boats in WWII

Introduction
Every time when someone uses any communication device which transmit electromagnetic waves, it can be detected and its position can be fixed. In WW2 almost every surface ship or a submarine were equipped with radio stations. Because of that the Allies and the Axis forces established radio direction-finder services. The service's duty was to find position of enemies' radio stations. Intention of this article is to explain radio detection finders fitted on German submarines in WW2, tactics of their use and how the Allies ships could reduced efficacious of the radio direction finder. the radio direction finder.

http://uboat.net/photos/u67.jpg

Technical description of DF

Radio direction finder is a system consisted of a receiver and an antenna. The antenna has to be specially designed for direction finders purpose. German submarines in WW2 were fitted with a loop type DF antenna. The antenna had to be able rotate on its axis. The rotation mainly was by hand, by means of a handle. Picture number 1 shows radio direction finder consisted of receiver (1), loudspeaker (2), loop antenna (3) and a handle (4).

Picture 1: Radio direction finder:

http://uboat.net/articles/images/huff_duff_1.gif


Picture number 2 shows external look of radio direction finder loop antenna.
Picture 2:

http://uboat.net/articles/images/huff_duff_2.gif


The loop antenna was designed for two maximum fields of reception and two minimum fields of reception. By rotation of the antenna on its axis operator was able to determine direction of the electromagnetic source i.e. radio-azimuth. The radio-azimuth is angle between true meridian and direction of reception of the electromagnetic (or radio) waves. Problem was because the loop antenna had two maximum fields of reception and because of that the operator could to make mistake of 180 degrees. Solution of that problem is explained in the next chapter. Picture number 3 shows layout (view from above) of a radio-direction finder loop antenna. Maximum fields of reception are marked by "+" and minimum fields of reception are marked by "-".

Picture 3: Layout of a loop antenna.

http://uboat.net/articles/images/huff_duff_3.gif

Direction finder tactics

As mentioned in chapter 2, radio-direction finders used on the Kriegsmarine U-boats were able to determine direction of the Allies ships, with possible error of 180 degrees. In this chapter two possibilities how that problem can be solved will be seen.

Picture 4:

http://uboat.net/articles/images/huff_duff_4.gif


Picture number 4 shows situation when single submarine (1) receives radio signal from the Allied surface ship or a convoy (2). The submarine determines two possible radio-azimuths, 315 (3) and 135 degrees (4). But, because of previous experience, the submarine knows usual routes of the Allied convoys (5). The submarine knows that the true radio-azimuth is 315 degrees. The submarine transmits the radio-azimuth to another submarines and to her base (Headquarter). By continuous watching of the ship's or the convoy radio traffic, the submarine will know the ship's or the convoy speed.

Picture 5:

http://uboat.net/articles/images/huff_duff_5.gif


Picture number 5 shows situation when (at least) two submarines receive radio signal from the Allied surface ship or a convoy. Both submarines receive the same radio signal.
Also the both submarines determine two possible radio-azimuths. One submarine (1) has two possible azimuths, 45 (2) and 225 (3) degrees. Another submarine (4) also has two possible radio-azimuths, 315 (5) and 135 (6) degrees. But, after the submarines communicate with one another, or after the submarines communicate with their base (Headquarter), the submarines will find out real radio-azimuths, 45 and 315 degrees. In this case correct position of the ship or the convoy is known. How many radio direction finders (fitted on a surface ship, a submarine or a coastal DF), so much is more easy to determine position of the electromagnetic (radio signal) source.

Conclusion

There was a great progress of radio communications ( and electronics at all ) in the WW2. When ships got possibility to communicate by means of radio stations, it was impossible to expect that they gave up of that possibility. But, there was also great improvement of electronics counter measures in the WW2. Every side involved in the WW2 had their own services of radio direction finders ( also known as Huff-Duff, which mean High Frequency Direction Finder). Because of all that mentioned above, it was necessary that radio operators used their radio stations with high level of professionalism, technical knowledge and discipline. First, every ship before went on her way, got plan of radio communications. The plan was consisted of list of call signs, list of identification codes, list of codes used in messages and list of frequencies. It was essential that the radio operators made radio communications exactly by the plan. Second, every communication had to be short as much as possible, because if the message was short it was less possibility that the radio direction finders would determine position of radio station (i.e. position of a ship or a convoy). Third, there should be just necessary radio communications between a ship and a convoy with their bases and ports. Inside a convoy ships could communicate one to another by means of Aldis -lamp. All three rules mentioned above couldn't interrupt work of the radio direction finders but the work was more difficult and less precise. Because of great growth of the Allies' merchant marine and because of big losses of merchant marine ships and their crews, period of training of new radio operators was more and more short. Because of that, the fresh radio operators made mistakes and their mistakes sometimes had a big cost.
This article explains working system of a radio direction finder fitted on German U-boats during the WW2. But, on the same way also worked coastal radio direction finders. On the same way Germans located illegal radio stations located on whole territory of (those days) occupied Europe, radio stations which worked in Great Britain etc.

[Anvart]

Venatore, http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3994/iconapplauseqo6.gif

[joea]

I love this mod!!!!:up:

[OneTinSoldier]

I like it. Something that was broken is now fixed, thank you Ref! :) I would say that most of the time I'm on the bridge I'm using binoc's and it doesn't seem to be in the way then. Personally, even without binocs it doesn't bother me.

It adds that extra touch of atmosphere :up: like the Captain's Bunk/Sonar/Radio room compartment, which I hear we're not going to have in SH IV! :cry:

[odinfish]

I love the new additions! Keep 'em coming!:rock:

[JCWolf]

so thanks MR Anvart for your hard work. :up:

:huh:

Ref


:o ...:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Cheapskate]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. This is an accurate addition to the overall gaming experience. To have this on the conning tower (rotating) as it should be is what its all about.


With you on that Venatore :up:

I would hate to go back to the bad old days where the antenna just stayed locked away festering and neglected in its bin.

However, I can appreciate WilhelmSchultz's point of view. The RDF loop in GWX is mounted very low down in the slot. Consequently much more of it is visible in the player's direct field of view when it rotates - which is all of the time. Could imagine this being an intense irritation to some people.

Anvart's version (which I use in a modded Stock 1.4 installation) has a longer shaft. Most of the loop rotates above the horizon and IMHO this isn't so distracting . Besides if it does get on your nerves, you can always send the radio operator off duty and the rotating will stop.

Ref's version does have an advantage though. The sweep pattern i.e.scanning forward and then backward, plus the slower turn rate, gives a better impression of the operator turning the wheel and trying to establish a contact. The faster, full 360 deg turn, in Anvart's implementation gives the impression of being an automatic/motorised process.

Would really like a version of the RDF mod combining the best of Ref's and Anvart's work.

Anyway,' hats off ' to both Ref and Anvart for the work they have done in this and other areas of the game. A better pair of ' new-ground ' breakers would be hard to imagine :rock: :rock: :rock:

[ref]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. This is an accurate addition to the overall gaming experience. To have this on the conning tower (rotating) as it should be is what its all about.


With you on that Venatore :up:

I would hate to go back to the bad old days where the antenna just stayed locked away festering and neglected in its bin.

However, I can appreciate WilhelmSchultz's point of view. The RDF loop in GWX is mounted very low down in the slot. Consequently much more of it is visible in the player's direct field of view when it rotates - which is all of the time. Could imagine this being an intense irritation to some people.

Anvart's version (which I use in a modded Stock 1.4 installation) has a longer shaft. Most of the loop rotates above the horizon and IMHO this isn't so distracting . Besides if it does get on your nerves, you can always send the radio operator off duty and the rotating will stop.

Ref's version does have an advantage though. The sweep pattern i.e.scanning forward and then backward, plus the slower turn rate, gives a better impression of the operator turning the wheel and trying to establish a contact. The faster, full 360 deg turn, in Anvart's implementation gives the impression of being an automatic/motorised process.

Would really like a version of the RDF mod combining the best of Ref's and Anvart's work.

Anyway,' hats off ' to both Ref and Anvart for the work they have done in this and other areas of the game. A better pair of ' new-ground ' breakers would be hard to imagine :rock: :rock: :rock:

The relative lower position of the DF antenna in my version of the mod has an explanation derived from the GWX sub behaviour, as the loop can't be lowered in order to make it "dissapear" when submerged is don via a controller that tells the game "don't render this object underwater", the problem is this: if the object is partially submerged then the part above water is rendered and the part below isn't, as the sub has a positive bouyancy in GWX and tends to go shallower than the user selected depth when the weather is rough the higher part of the loop keeps appearing and dissapearing when the waves pass, giving an undesirable effect, for that reason I raised them to the minimum height possible without it colliding with the tower when it rotates.
I remark this to clarify why some things are done in a certain way and not the other, I do know that the loops where raised higher in RL, but the unfinished features in sh3 keeps making us to take some arbitrary measures to keep things balanced.

Ref

[ref]

Also adding to the previous post, about the unfinished features, there is a radioDF sensor defined on the program structures, but it isn't functional, I've made a lot of tests adding a DF sensor trying it on different situations but I didn't get a radio signal detected from the radio operator in any case.

Ref

[alexoscar]

I have a problem with this antenna:

http://i16.tinypic.com/4g97n0w.jpg

It was working fine. I went to 25m depth and the antenna got down and stayed in that position. Now, although Im in the surface, the antenna is not going up and dont rotate either.

Any idea?

Thanks in advance and a BIG THANK YOU for GWX supermod guys.

[Anvart]

I have a problem with this antenna:

It was working fine. I went to 25m depth and the antenna got down and stayed in that position. Now, although Im in the surface, the antenna is not going up and dont rotate either.

Any idea?

Thanks in advance and a BIG THANK YOU for GWX supermod guys.
Turn on radar.

[alexoscar]

Well, I saved my career and closed SHIII aplication. Later I have restarted my saved game and the antenna is in correct position and rotating.

@Anvart: Next time I will try your recommendation. Thanks again.

Regards.

[alexoscar]

Turn on radar.

Yep, it worked. Thanks mate.

Regards.

[Pirate]

So, is the JSGME patch for having the DF antena lowered at GWX 1.02 coming out?

I hate the effect of the DF antenna at PD operations, because of the waves, looks like a ghost antenna that shows up above the water :down:

[JScones]

So, is the JSGME patch for having the DF antena lowered at GWX 1.02 coming out?

I hate the effect of the DF antenna at PD operations, because of the waves, looks like a ghost antenna that shows up above the water :down:
Impatience. :nope: Read post #6 in this thread again.

You can always do it yourself if you are in a hurry. :yep:

Oh, and it's not a patch - it's an optional mod. A patch implies a fix for something that's broken. This ain't broken - Ref is spending *his* time creating an alternative option to make everyone happy.

[Pirate]

That's great! Post #6 says it will be released by tomorrow :D

Oh! I'm sorry for the wrong choice of words, and I apologise if I've heart your feelings ;)

[Cheapskate]

The relative lower position of the DF antenna in my version of the mod has an explanation derived from the GWX sub behaviour, as the loop can't be lowered in order to make it "dissapear" when submerged is don via a controller that tells the game "don't render this object underwater", the problem is this: if the object is partially submerged then the part above water is rendered and the part below isn't, as the sub has a positive bouyancy in GWX and tends to go shallower than the user selected depth when the weather is rough the higher part of the loop keeps appearing and dissapearing when the waves pass, giving an undesirable effect, for that reason I raised them to the minimum height possible without it colliding with the tower when it rotates.I remark this to clarify why some things are done in a certain way and not the other, I do know that the loops where raised higher in RL, but the unfinished features in sh3 keeps making us to take some arbitrary measures to keep things balanced.

Ref

Thanks for explaining the reasons for the low mount position of the RDF aerial and the removal option for those who don't like it.

I did realise that if you had not adopted the high mount position, there must be a good reason for it. My initial reaction was that there was enough extra travel on the scopes to offset the deeper periscope depth ( required by the positive buyancy " feature " ), without the RDF breaking surface.

Never thought about the effect in heavy seas though :oops: ... had been waiting for patch 1.02 to arrive before running a campaign in GTX., and didn't see too much rough water in the training missions, or the couple of trips up the NOK ( :up: for Holtenau btw) which is all that I have done so far.

Anyhow, have decided to give RDF a shot of Viagra by applying Anvarts mod. Hope the loop visibility isn't detectable by the opposition though :hmm:

[JScones]

That's great! Post #6 says it will be released by tomorrow :D

Oh! I'm sorry for the wrong choice of words, and I apologise if I've heart your feelings ;)
It takes a bit to heart [sic] my feelings. ;)