View Full Version : Adversarial gameplay & xbox 360?
Hi,
I hadnt come across too much info re the above mode in SH4 - can anyone shed more light on the subject? number of players? campaign missions playable?
Voice comms?
one other question, please dont get offended ')............... possible xbox360 version? I read somewhere it was being considered. any info?
Mush Martin
02-16-07, 08:56 AM
What Nations will Rival players Sail for ?????????
hyperion2206
02-16-07, 08:58 AM
What Nations will Rival players Sail for ?????????
You can either command an American sub or a Japanese Escort. I think only these 2 nations are available.
I joked about an Xbox version at one point... but I highly doubt it. Xbox isn't considered part of the simulation market.
Also, the devs have said they won't we implementing native voice comms because there was no such communication between attacking subs.
I certainly read somewhere, not on this forum about the console consideration.
Also if you note how they designed the movement around the submarine in SH3, it smacks of console consideration to me, why else do we have to jump to stations around the sub? I think it would be fairly easy to port to 360, and oh the comfort of kicking back on the leather couch with a wireless controller - really dudes its the future for sure, I am another one of those ex pc gamers loving the ease of console after years of pc heartache (and some fun i might add) Silent hunter is the only game I really play on pc.
It wouldnt suprise me if MS arent planning a secret purchase of the dev team! in there search to make the 360 reach as broad as possible, id certainly want this game on my money making creation..............
so the adversarial mode is defo 2 players?
If the Micrsoft purchases the dev team there will be a riot! No bloody way will I accept SH5 being noob-box exclusive!
I think adversarial mode is up to 4 players
These comments make me think about the games broader apeal also, and the route that ubi want to take SH in the future.
"Ubisoft says they want SH4 to appeal to the serious subsim skipper and casual gamer and with "Hollywood Blockbuster" graphics, SH4 should get the attention of the guy strolling through a Wal-Mart with some fishing lures and a sixpack. "One of the aims of the game is to present it like a movie," said Dan. "A historical movie where even the menus are inspired by films such as "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers"
I can see console giving ubi a hood wink here :) lets face it most gamers on this forum arent running high end rigs for gaming anymore, the likely future for sh is console without a doubt, pc gaming has become soooo much more expensive. And the last 30 somethings and more gamers are spending less and less on pc hardware, and more on the 360 or ps3 (and massive TVs!) it is easier and cheaper for us - not to mention more money and less hassle for the developers.
To best the experience of my 360 currently, I would need a 40" monitor running a high end expensive pc at a stupidly high resolution........my pockets would be empty and I wouldnt be any more immersed gaming wise than I am already.
I would go and get SH4 on 360 like a shot £40, no ****ty starforce, and I can play wireless talk to my buddies and drink some red wine at the same time ;)
gosh i have ranted on a bit havent i.......... :rock:
I still don't see it.
And PCs haven't gotten more expensive. A new computer costs just as much now as a new computer 5 or 10 years ago. Nothing has changed.
only prob with a 360 version is there arnt enough buttons for all the commands :up:
Kapitan_Phillips
02-16-07, 10:45 AM
I dont think the SH series will ever go to consoles. As it was said, consoles have never really been simulation minded, and unless (god forbid) it takes an arcadish turn, there will probably be next to no market for a game where you take a good two hours per patrol.
Consoles are more 'pick up and put down' in terms of their games, for example, you can play a few levels on a shooter and not be *too* immersed in the gameplay, unlike Silent Hunter which requires patience and methodical thinking.
And I am NOT going to play multiplayer in a Balao class sub versus anyone by the name of "ur_mum" or something like that. Leave that for shooting games.
"And PCs haven't gotten more expensive. A new computer costs just as much now as a new computer 5 or 10 years ago. Nothing has changed"
The thing thats changed today, is this..............
PC's are getting cheaper and cheaper I agree - however gaming on a pc has gone in the other direction...... you need two gfx cards or more ........... you need dual cores or more................. in order to game "properly" on the pc these days, and compare gaming to my 360 and 40" screen etc you need to spend over £3k to gain the same experience. its these spenders that drive the development of games, and these guyz and gals only have a certain amount of cash, I purchased one 40" sony bravia this year, and I cant see me buying another huge screen to watch the pc stutter on.............................
Nightmare
02-16-07, 12:05 PM
Consoles are more 'pick up and put down' in terms of their games, for example, you can play a few levels on a shooter and not be *too* immersed in the game play unlike Silent Hunter which requires patience and methodical thinking.
This is exactly why console games take an arcade turn, and it’s what I call the “twitch” factor. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of some console games and they can be quite fun. I just don’t believe a console has the interface to handle a real simulation to the caliber of SH or DW.
you need two gfx cards or more ........... you need dual cores or more................. in order to game "properly" on the pc these days, and compare gaming to my 360 and 40" screen etc you need to spend over £3k to gain the same experience. its these spenders that drive the development of games, and these guyz and gals only have a certain amount of cash, I purchased one 40" sony bravia this year, and I cant see me buying another huge screen to watch the pc stutter on.............................
Your post is filled with complete misconceptions. I’m currently building an entirely new Core 2 Duo machine from the ground up to replace my old PC (that has lasted me for 5 years now), and I’m doing it for a lot less than I can pick up a HD LCD or Plasma TV. You don’t need 2 graphics cards to run games, especially if you do some homework before buying. The cost of my new CPU is very close to what I spent on my P4 2Ghz 5 years ago, so buying a dual core doesn’t double the price
The #1 thing PC has over consoles is the upgradeability. I can always buy a faster CPU to throw in my machine if I need. I can always upgrade the video card or go SLI if I want to at a later date. My PS2, Xbox, and GameCube run and look the same as the day I brought them home many years ago.
Safe-Keeper
02-16-07, 12:25 PM
Games have a tendency to grow far more simplistic when ported to consoles, so no.
flintlock
02-16-07, 12:55 PM
gaming on a pc has gone in the other direction...... you need two gfx cards or more ........... you need dual cores or more................. in order to game "properly" on the pc these days, Most games today still aren't threaded and most still don't take advantage of SLI/Crossfire configs, so you usually end up seeing an insignificant gain performance wise with the latter, and on the odd occasion you'l get a slight performance hit with the former.
geetrue
02-16-07, 01:11 PM
SH4 should get the attention of the guy strolling through a Wal-Mart with some fishing lures and a sixpack.
Hey! Watch it with the reference to walking through Wal-mart with a six-pack and fishing lures in your basket ... You must work for security and spotted me ... :lol:
and as for you Nightmare:
Your post is filled with complete misconceptions. I’m currently building an entirely new Core 2 Duo machine from the ground up to replace my old PC (that has lasted me for 5 years now), and I’m doing it for a lot less than I can pick up a HD LCD or Plasma TV. You don’t need 2 graphics cards to run games, especially if you do some homework before buying. The cost of my new CPU is very close to what I spent on my P4 2Ghz 5 years ago, so buying a dual core doesn’t double the price
The #1 thing PC has over consoles is the upgradeability. I can always buy a faster CPU to throw in my machine if I need. I can always upgrade the video card or go SLI if I want to at a later date. My PS2, Xbox, and GameCube run and look the same as the day I brought them home many years ago.
That's both true and false ... I agree with one good gpu video card vs (2) and you can always go to two (2) when the price comes down, but according to my old notebooks that I tear the pages out of and throw away once-in-a-while, systems today cost about the same as they always did.
In fact I've paid over $250 for a 4gb hdd in 98 and today that would purchase a 500gb hdd and that's just a small example.
As far as consoles go ... a game as good as SH4 would be the only game to get me into a $500 box (tax, extra controller, etc) and then my small 27" flat screen Samsung would have to be upgraded too ... for another $600 to $700 dollars.
Plus SH4 would have to have the entire Imperial Japanese Navy after me to make that kind of investment.
Like someone already said, consoles are for casual gamers for some light entertainment. They're there to feed the stupid masses. Not that everyone who plays console games is stupid, they just don't take gaming seriously, or have the console for non-serious gaming. There is no way someone can sit in front a console and do a three or four hour patrol holding a noob-stick.
Consoles are like to computers, as the television is to cinema. A cinema experience forces immersion, whereas television is a casual on the side experience, where you talk to people, eat, do ther stuff, and can be stopped at any point.
Consoles have co-existed with computers since the dawn of electronic gaming. PCs are far too popular at the moment to die. The PC gaming sub-culture is very big.
I would go as far as to say PC gaming is for true enthusiasts, no matter what genre you're talking about. It's all about customisation, making ones own computer better is a fun hobby for many people. It is the PC market that drives graphics technology, not the consoles. PCs are the bleeding edge of gaming, and someone needs to be at the forefront.
Which brings me to the number one most important thing. PC games allow modding!!! Almost every PC game gets modded these days, and it is something that gamers love to have. Imagine SH without mods!
An SH game is getting more and more ridiculous the more I think about it. If you can imagine yourself playing SH5 on a console, then you should ask yourself wheather you really care about what you are playing. There are plenty of other games around that cater for big explosions.
flintlock
02-16-07, 01:28 PM
I hope we never see this wonderful franchise move to the console.
Some genres lend themselves well to the console (racing, sports games etc), and others do not. My experience has been that once a title previously available on a PC is designed with the console in mind, that platform becomes the focus behind the design and it invariable gets dumbed down. The PC usually ends up with a less than ideal console port and it's never the same game again.
I'd love nothing more than to see the Silent Hunter franchise stay on the PC platform, but make no mistake, Ubi doesn't keep it there out of the love for the genre or franchise -- it's simple economics at this stage. Once Ubi decide there's more money to be made by taking the series cross-platform, they'll do it in a heartbeat. Even if it means the realism and authenticity will be sacrificed to bring the title to the broader couch playing masses. There's no romantic love for the genre behind its existence (as some would like to believe). At the end of the day, it's about the economics and ultimately, the bottom line. The franchise exists to make the publisher money, period. If consoles are deemed to increase the profits, that's where the franchise will go, tout de suite.
Its great to have so many opinions thats what a forums is all about, but Boris I think your view of console gaming is somewhat outdated really.
The goal posts really have shifted, not just for me but for many PC gamers of my generation.
The average age of the 360 owner these days is rather higher than you would imagine, try 30 odd - I think the current crop of consoles are for a very different market this time around, it's not about making it all simplistic and dumbing everything down anymore, its about innovation, making gaming a better experience all round. currently for the money the 360 cant be surpassed, even the ps3 represents better value (than pc) without doubt.
I cant see why SH3 wouldnt be exactly the same as the pc version, if it was ported, with some obvious interface changes. The audience is changing and so are the games, there is also no reason why I cant sit on my couch for 4 hours playing silent hunter on a console, Ubi would be crazy to not be wanting this title on console, they would make more revenue for a start...... I for one would love to see it - :yep:
geetrue
02-16-07, 02:40 PM
The audience is changing and so are the games, there is also no reason why I cant sit on my couch for 4 hours playing silent hunter on a console, Ubi would be crazy to not be wanting this title on console, they would make more revenue for a start...... I for one would love to see it - :yep:
That's what it's all about ... they don't make movies or video games for free.
stinger503
02-16-07, 02:42 PM
Not that everyone who plays console games is stupid, they just don't take gaming seriously, or have the console for non-serious gaming. There is no way someone can sit in front a console and do a three or four hour patrol holding a noob-stick.
Hardly I take gaming very seriously as do many 360ers. And on the 3-4 hour patrols, I've done 5 hour races in Nascar Thunder, that's right 5 hours of driving in circles! So trust me I could do patrols.
Consoles are like to computers, as the television is to cinema. A cinema experience forces immersion, whereas television is a casual on the side experience, where you talk to people, eat, do ther stuff, and can be stopped at any point.
I don't think you actually believe this. How many people on this forum have gotten up and eaten or gone to the bathroom or even pause the game while playing SH3? I'd say 99% at least.
An SH game is getting more and more ridiculous the more I think about it. If you can imagine yourself playing SH5 on a console, then you should ask yourself wheather you really care about what you are playing.
Actually alot of people do care about their console games. Take a look at Steel Battalion http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/steelbattalion/index.html?q=steel%20battlion It's a $200 game and if you look at vital stats it says it has almost 1000 people who bought it. A $200 game! Most of this cost is for the keyboard and now Xbox 360 has USB ports you can already plug in you own. No need for controllers. And almost 100 people still play Steel Battalion, a game released in 2002 at $200 a pop.
I'll admist I'm die-hard PC, but I stand by my assertion that consoles are more casual. They cater for a different market, people who don't want to have to care how it works or why. Console games have a habit of being simplified, the mere fact that games have to be playable via a controller force the devs to dum it down, whether they want to or not. Also, because the target audence is even wider, realism and features will suffer. And as I mentioned before, it'll be a cold day in hell before the guys here give up their mods. Modding is what keeps many games and their supporting communities alive.
A console move would be a step backward as far as us players are concerned, who are constantly campaigning for more features and more content. I am glad that most simulation fans feel like this, because we are a niche market. As long as we know and stick to what we want, there will be some corporate fat cat willing to sell it to us. Saying we wouldn't mind playing Silent Hunter on a console is blasphemy you hear... BLASPHEMY! It's like cutting of your own balls.
nuff said :smug:
Kapitan_Phillips
02-16-07, 03:06 PM
Wasnt Steel Batallion that game where you got an entire cockpit peripheral?
-EDIT- Yeah, here it is:
http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.media/steel.jpg
They should make one like this for Silent Hunter :P
Safe-Keeper
02-16-07, 03:09 PM
Exactly. They have to be dumbed down because a keyboard has a hundred keys and a controller has less than a dozen. You could say, "oh, but the X-Box 360 supports a keyboard", but come on, a game that you have to buy a keyboard to play? How many people will pick it up when it comes with that kind of requirement? I can picture arcade players going "OMG Keebored, it muzt b teh r3alizm, run!111" and shun it like the plague.
Take a look at Steel Battalion http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/...eel%20battlion (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/steelbattalion/index.html?q=steel%20battlion) It's a $200 game and if you look at vital stats it says it has almost 1000 people who bought it. A $200 game! Most of this cost is for the keyboard and now Xbox 360 has USB ports you can already plug in you own. No need for controllers. And almost 100 people still play Steel Battalion, a game released in 2002 at $200 a pop.1000 players is nothing. Not exactly lucrative.
Well, how many households don't have a USB keyboard?
That's all the PS3 needs. It has 4 USB ports in the front of the unit.
I bought a PS3 a few weeks ago, mainly because it plays Blueray Discs (Blueray
Disc stand alone players actually cost more than a PS3). After exploring the
thing for a while, I'm starting to think this could be the future.
The PC is not all that upgradeable in my mind. When It's time to upgrade I find
I need a new motherboard, CPU, RAM, Video Card, and power supply (unless I were
to upgrade every year, but performance doesn't increase enough in one year to
justify the price tag).
You can't use the same ram, because the slot type changed. Same with the
video card, agp goes to PCI-e. CPU pins changed. But this brand new 200 dollar
motherboard will accept all these changes. So you end up dropping a thousand
dollars for that new system that will need REPLACING, not upgrading, in two,
maybe three years if you are lucky.
Add to that the new operating system (and the prices of those are skyrocketing)
and you should be starting to see a trend.
How much further COULD the socket 939 have gone? No one really knows for
sure except the architects; of course they will tell you that it was at it's end,
but who knows for sure? It's all a big racket. Buy more, upgrade, blah.
The thing that is lacking in the console market are sims like Silent Hunter, if
UBI stayed true to the simulation it could still be played on a console. They
would just have to make a stand and keep it true to the PC spirit of it.
Playability would not be a factor. Just don't dumb it down.
Now, whether flight sims could survive on a console, I have some doubts. It's
hard to rig up a yoke and rudder pedals to a couch :rotfl:
Just my thoughts, sorry for rambling
Rocco
flintlock
02-17-07, 01:22 PM
Well I feel you're in luck. I don't think you'll need to wait too long to see the Silent Hunter series developed for consoles (then ported to the PC). Ubisoft loves consoles, and takes pride in being multi-platform friendly.
I guess what I'm saying is that the PS3 (can't speak for any others) looks
like it has the potential to BE a PC (in your living room). I would love to
play silent hunter in my chair.
Without the viruses to boot.
No more compatibility problems.
I think the reason why it is shunned by some is because of the brain-dead
games available on the console. I'm just saying it doesn't HAVE to be that
way anymore, "smart" games could survive. Let's face it, how many kids can
afford $500 for a PS3 (I know I never would have got one when I was a kid).
Rocco
Well I feel you're in luck. I don't think you'll need to wait too long to see the Silent Hunter series developed for consoles (then ported to the PC). Ubisoft loves consoles, and takes pride in being multi-platform friendly.
I think you are right. :hmm: Not having the warm, fuzzy feeling about things that I did a few weeks ago. What bothers me is the signs that have piled up lately. Ubi fast-tracks SH4 (I didn't see anything earlier than a late 2007 release), sets a seemingly firm release date (never a great sign for quality), and then pulls their marketing fiascos with different "editions" (ie: get as much money as they can before the consumers hear how buggy the sim is), then the devs announce the possiblity of an SDK...Seems like Ubi wants to push this sim out the door, produce a patch or two (ie: SH2 :doh: ) and get on to something else.
Just my opinion...and I could be waaaaay off base. I certainly hope so.
geetrue
02-17-07, 01:56 PM
Since MS went online with the Xbox and now the Xbox 360 series they have been partial to those king of games, due to the Xbox live money that comes into their greedy hands.
How can you play SH3 on a console? Single game mode? What do the other controllers do? Control another U-boat?
Same with SH4 except we have a hint of IJN destroyer's being AI and controlable in MP ... still not enough for MS to be interested ...
You would have to have the whole US Navy against the whole IJN to be a good online game and that is already being done with Midway, right?
Midway took over four years to get to the store shelves ... I watched it climb from a maybe in 2002 to what it is today.
Give up for sub sims on consoles for 2007, but hey 2008/2009 ... maybe :yep:
You guys are still forgetting that a console move will kill the modding scene. :nope:
Safe-Keeper
02-17-07, 02:53 PM
I guess what I'm saying is that the PS3 (can't speak for any others) looks
like it has the potential to BE a PC (in your living room). I would love to
play silent hunter in my chair.
Without the viruses to boot.Seeing more and more (or all?) consoles are going on-line, do you really think it'll take long before they become infected?
I don't.
Let's face it, how many kids can
afford $500 for a PS3 (I know I never would have got one when I was a kid).
Lots. And those who can't, get them for birthdays and Christmas.
It's a dumb idea and I can't believe people are entertaining the notion.
flintlock
02-17-07, 03:00 PM
You guys are still forgetting that a console move will kill the modding scene. As long as there is PC version, it should remain quite moddable (Ubi claim to be making things more mod friendly these days).
Well, i guess if they still made PC version first, and port that to consoles, that would be just fine. Console to PC ports are notoriously dumbed down though.
Well, i guess if they still made PC version first, and port that to consoles, that would be just fine. Console to PC ports are notoriously dumbed down though.
Why would they do it the other way around, if it's been on the PC for, what,
a decade now?
[quote]I guess what I'm saying is that the PS3 (can't speak for any others) looks
like it has the potential to BE a PC (in your living room). I would love to
play silent hunter in my chair.
Without the viruses to boot.Seeing more and more (or all?) consoles are going on-line, do you really think it'll take long before they become infected?
I don't.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Apple's Macintosh have virus problems? I was under the impression it was
a windows phenomenon (I don't know much about Macs)
edit: I messed up the quote sorry
Rocco
Nightmare
02-17-07, 05:10 PM
Well, i guess if they still made PC version first, and port that to consoles, that would be just fine. Console to PC ports are notoriously dumbed down though.
Problem with that is developers have already started a trend of developing for consoles first and the PC's as an after thought. I offer "Star Trek: Legacy" as an example (go read the PC review on Gamespot). The major gripe with this game is the controls are meant to be played on an X-Box360 controller, and the keyboard response is horrible. It's been "dumbed down" in comparison to previous versions that were strictly PC only. :damn:
Another example (to a much lesser degree) is "Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion." The entire inventory, map, and quest log interface is completely inefficient on the PC version and was stripped down to the point that it could be controller friendly to consoles.
Mylander
02-17-07, 05:37 PM
No, in Mac-world, there is no such thing as a virus. Or any other malicious software. It is a non-issue.:rock: The Mac OS was written with security in mind. Windows is still based on it's original OS that was written before Al Gore had invented the internet or e-mail. This is why there are still huge security holes in windows which hackers and criminals freely exploit. Mac OS is all about security, windows pays lip-service to it. Meanwhile, there is a huge market for "protection money" i.e. McAfee, Norton, etc. folks write software to try to fix your broke-ass PC, and protect it from malicous software threats. It feels a little bit like organized crime: Norton: "This is a nice PC you've got here... We wouldn't want anything to happen to it, now would we?" "For a small fee..." you get the picture. Don't even get me started about all of the trash-ware which is pre-installed on your PC when you buy it.:nope:
I run SH3 with silky-smooth framerates with graphics maxed out. And get this: The Mac machine - - - works! All of the time! :up: I was a diehard windows man until a few months ago. Been at it for 17 years+ I have built my own PCs from the ground up, and I have bought them from Dell, HP etc... Started out on MS-DOS v2. Now, there is no PC out there that can compare to a intel based Mac. The high-end ones actually run windows software faster than the fastest PCs in benchmark tests. Go figure.
My argument against Macs was always "There's no software for them". Now that they have intel-based chips, PCs just plain suck. I no longer spend entire weekends "fixing" windows software and hardware conflicts.:D I only wish that I didn't have to run windows to run SH3, et al. As far as I'm concerned, other than that, windows just wastes space on my HD.
Sorry to rant, but with my Mac, I feel like a man who has just been released from PC prison, and it is hard not to get excited about it and tell other people.
Best Regards,
Andrew
Since when was Al Gore the inventor of the internet and email? :huh:
flintlock
02-17-07, 06:10 PM
I have noticed when a title is to be released on multi-platforms, it seems the design focus and overall consideration is given to the consoles. Within the framework and limitations of such design philosophy springs a PC port, and one that often has the end result feeling quite console-like, and lacking.
If Ubi decide to move the franchise to multiple platforms, no doubt console users will have much to celebrate. PC users, on the other hand, not so much.
Fat Bhoy Tim
02-18-07, 02:23 AM
I still don't see it.
And PCs haven't gotten more expensive. A new computer costs just as much now as a new computer 5 or 10 years ago. Nothing has changed.
And game prices are half, perhaps a 1/3, of what they were 10/15 years ago.
RE: modding.................
IF you think that modding isnt possible on the consoles think again, xbox live arcade? lots of developers now with the tools its only the beggining.
Remember unreal 2004 the king of modifications?
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=158324
All they're saying is that mods are going to be ported to consoles, but they need PCs to be developed on.
They can make simplified console versions of PC games as much as they like, as long as it doesn't kill the PC market.
PC is where the real action is in terms of innovation, and that's where I'm staying.
Big development and innovation require lots of money, games like "unreal 3" will still make wealthy gamers purchase uber pc gaming rigs in turn driving modding and gaming on the pc - but games like SH I am affraid have rather a smaller user base, unless of course it moves to multiplatform? add to that most people playing SH3 probably dont spend a fortune on a gaming rig! so in turn I dont know how the innovation is going to be funded myself.
Ubi want to make money, I want to play on my couch with a wireless controller, and on the odd occasion with some sea dog buddies, ahhh voice comms without any "pc hassle", I look forward to enjoying subbing with people from all around the world, now thats innovation!
come on lets make it happen :) :arrgh!:
Are you saying you actually want silent hunter to be console exclusive?
um, not really........... I wouldnt want to restrict gaming platforms in anyway, rather broaden it to the masses. :up:
Well console players are welcome to it as long as it doen't get made on PC first...
But it would be the first simulation for a console. I don't know of any other simulations for a console, except for arcade action simulations. Not sure how it would do.
flintlock
02-18-07, 12:55 PM
I have a feeling that your average console player may find a WWII sub sim a tad boring. Though I'm sure if Ubi developes it for that platform in the future, they'll spice it up and add a lot of action for that broad audience. PC users will reap the rewards of the new gameplay style I'm sure.
they used to think FPS would never work on console - then came halo.
they also used to think RTS wouldnt work on console, command and conquer 3 might prove them wrong again, halo wars another RTS by "ensemble studios" certainly will without doubt.............
the boogey man is coming :rock:
edit: gosh I cant believe I used an EA game in my post, well thats the first and last.
flintlock
02-18-07, 01:16 PM
I don't know of any other simulations for a console, except for arcade action simulations. Microsoft's Forza, and their upcoming Forza2 for the Xbox 360 is fairly sim-like (certainly as sim-like as you could consider the SH series).
http://forzamotorsport.net/
(http://forzamotorsport.net/)
Motorsport doesn't count, because a great number of people love racing games, and everyone thinks driving is cool.
Learning the intricacies of manual targetting of torpedoes, or radar sensors in a modern flight sim is different.
forza was simply an amazing simulation.......period.
what the developers did was unreal, and it all ran on a 733mhz black box.
forza2 I have high hopes for.
flintlock
02-18-07, 02:54 PM
Motorsport doesn't count, because a great number of people love racing games, and everyone thinks driving is cool. You've lost me here. You're suggesting because it's popular, it no longer counts as a sim?
Learning the intricacies of manual targetting of torpedoes, or radar sensors in a modern flight sim is different. I don't see how it's much different at all. With full realism settings there's a lot to consider: camber, caster, toe, tire choice, bite, tire pressure and gear ratios. There's a slew of aerodynamic considerations, stagger, spring rates and many other suspension dilemmas. You need to consider understeer, oversteer, wedge, ballasts, brakes and the options and considerations all those present. You have a vast choice of engine powerplant settings, torque, displacement, mods, upgrades and acceleration setups. The list goes on and on ad nauseam.
It's a different style of sim, yes, but no less a sim. As with the SH series, realism and difficulty is adjustable.
@Guido: Forza2 is a title that I suspect will give more than a few people a reason to purchase an Xbox 360.
I agree flintoff, even if forza 2 was the same as forza one with HD, It would be huge, however from what I have read its going to surpass pretty much everything they did before and then some .................
I will still keep my german submariners uniform next to my leathers and helmet tho ;) I dont know what to don for the Sh4 campaign - Perhaps I could just wear a cigar? :rotfl:
flintlock
02-18-07, 03:58 PM
All this discussion on whether or not the series will move to consoles is still merely speculation at this stage. Though I've noticed something interesting: there are a few videos around that have more than a few Xbox 360s lying around. Far more units then I suspect a dev team would use for personal entertainment during downtime.
In the following video, you can see a cluster of 360s on the lower left of the video. Things that make one go hmm....
http://www.subsim.com/sh4/demov3.mov (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/../sh4/demov3.mov)
I think that room was used for other game demos too. Some other shots show a big assasin's creed logo on the wall.
flintlock
02-18-07, 04:08 PM
Yeah, you're probably right. I'm just guessing and being a conspiracy theorist.
;)
Seeadler
02-18-07, 04:36 PM
But it would be the first simulation for a console. I don't know of any other simulations for a console...
688 Attack Sub
published 1988 also for the Sega Mega Drive console;)
Sonarman
02-18-07, 04:37 PM
Not sure about sims but the naval stategy/action title "Battlestations Midway" took position 1 in the all-format UK chart last week, a first for a naval title? ..shows that there may be an appetite for more complex games on consoles after all.
Battlestations is anything but complex :lol:
It's what I fear Silent Hunter might become if it got developed for consoles.
Sonarman
02-18-07, 04:49 PM
Battlestations is anything but complex :lol:
It's what I fear Silent Hunter might become if it got developed for consoles.
Yes the last thing I want to see is SH dumbed down. Really all that needs to be done is to add a keyboard to a console to allow more complex games to be played. I think that console manufactures are rather stupid not to do this as they are effectively cutting out a huge number of customers.
If they just added a keyboard it would be like the old days of the Amiga, a level playing field, a dedicated gamesmachine where all games "just worked" and you wouldn't have to worry about the myriad of problems caused by the PC's modular design.
I myself would buy an X360 but in truth at the moment there are so few games that appeal to me , it's simply not worth it.
KrvKpt. Falke
02-18-07, 05:28 PM
Kaleuns, you really scared me! Not so long ago i was a big fan of Ubisofts Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six series. But after they moved it to console (dumbed down it)- well - only Silent Hunter left. Now i hear some people saying they wish to have SH on consoles :huh:
SH series is only title from Ubisoft that im still going to buy and play unless it will become consoles exclusive or will be ported from consoles to PC.:down:
(If that will happen GWX team should found real game studio and make real subsim games for us - for free of course :D:D )
hyperion2206
02-18-07, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't mind if SH4 was available for consoles as long as the development of the console version is kept seperate from the development of the PC version. But what I fear (and I don't think I'm the only one) is that SH could be developed for console and then converted so it runs on PC.
"Star Trek: Legacy" is a good example. It was orignially developed for console and then converted. The outcome was crap! You could hardly control your ships, because the conversion wasn't done very well. Many PC gamers wiped Legacy of their HD pretty soon and I fear SH would share the same fate.
Sonarman
02-18-07, 07:51 PM
"Star Trek: Legacy" is a good example. It was orignially developed for console and then converted. The outcome was crap!
Yes I agree, the controls in Legacy were a disaster, the sub-system targetting in particular was almost impossible on the PC. Very bad UI design too, especially the crap power indicator/diverter thing.
I think the "dum down" card is overplayed to be honest, really the people who want to see SH4 on console consist of the same people who loved to play it on pc, I dont see any need to create a singular "arcade" sub game, when silent hunter 3 already has realism levels incorporated. But you do have to give gamers choice............. for instance I liked a lot the graphic updates from GWX, however realistic sinking times and other changes really detract from MY enjoyment, I want to be immersed in the atmosphere and feel like a real sub captain (on my 40" screen - not my 19" monitor) I dont want to work out every facet of targeting the enemy - I am the captain and I give orders! however I dont mind one bit if other people want to do that, really it should be available to the more "old fashioned" pc gamer, who cares not about eye candy and never has.
The real deal tho, is that the old fashioned pc strategy gamer is on the slide, and will not drive ever more complex (years in the making) simulations - next gen consoles and uber pc's will.
If all you want is to play Silent Hunter games in you living room on your 40" plasma, you know you can already do that right?
And who said manual targetting was old fashoined, and it's proponents don't care about eye candy? I really hate it when people separate graphics from realism. Graphics is the most important part of realism IMO, without awesome graphics, no amount of dials and buttons is going to have any appeal.
From the tone in your post you sound like you want simulations to be dumbed down?
From the tone in your post you sound like you want simulations to be dumbed down?
no, I would rather give people a choice. If I have lots of time one weekend, I might want to dial up the realism myself!
And I dont mean the method of targetting is old fashioned either, just some peoples ideas - :) no offence of course.
If all you want is to play Silent Hunter games in you living room on your 40" plasma, you know you can already do that right?
yeah I already do actualy on my media center pc, but the 4:3 aspect is rather untidy, cant be bothered changing DLL's to alter the resolution. Also sitting with a wireless keyboard on my lap is ok for a bit, but id prefer a wireless controller! and proper next gen gfx. I had thought about getting a trackball for it.
I'm getting the feeling a lot of people haven't seen Blueray Discs in full high
definition. It's absolutely gorgeous, words can't describe it. To see Silent
Hunter in 1080p on my 50" Sony SXRD would be amazing, and I think
everyone would agree if they saw it.
The reason why there are no simulation games on consoles is because no
one has had the balls to try it. If it flopped, a ton of money would be lost.
But taking risks can also pay off big. I don't want to see this series become
anything different than what it is currently. I love it. If I could get the same
game on the PS3, I would probably buy both versions.
I doubt Ubisoft is willing to take that risk though.
Rocco
geetrue
02-19-07, 12:41 PM
The key to getting better games for PC or consoles is for the buying public to do a little research first, instead of picking up a box in their local game outlet and taking a quick glance at the spec's and the marketing hype on the box.
Then rushing to the check out cashier and removing the contents as soon as they get home to install on their PC or plop in the slot of their console, before they find out it is a bad game.
I vote for the first online game web page that sells PC and console games and after you have checked the item to purchase and gone to check out ... a little pop up box comes up asking,
"Do you really want to purchase this game based on what other buyers have commented"?
I know greed won't let it happen, but it sure would make the game industry regulate itself better for higher quality standards. :yep:
flintlock
02-19-07, 12:56 PM
The key to getting better games for PC or consoles is for the buying public to do a little research first I believe mature gamers usually do their due diligence in research before pulling the trigger on a title. However, one pitfall even the latter group fall into is hype. You know the drill: you've been following the development of a new title, let the hype get the better of you and purchase it the moment it's released, or you've pre-ordered weeks ahead of release, only to realize the title's a dud (speaking from experience here).
As always, caveat emptor.
ReallyDedPoet
02-19-07, 01:12 PM
"
The thing thats changed today, is this..............
PC's are getting cheaper and cheaper I agree - however gaming on a pc has gone in the other direction...... you need two gfx cards or more ........... you need dual cores or more................. in order to game "properly" on the pc these days, and compare gaming to my 360 and 40" screen etc you need to spend over £3k to gain the same experience. its these spenders that drive the development of games, and these guyz and gals only have a certain amount of cash, I purchased one 40" sony bravia this year, and I cant see me buying another huge screen to watch the pc stutter on.............................
I'll second that. Good point:up:
The key to getting better games for PC or consoles is for the buying public to do a little research first I believe mature gamers usually do their due diligence in research before pulling the trigger on a title. However, one pitfall even the latter group fall into is hype. You know the drill: you've been following the development of a new title, let the hype get the better of you and purchase it the moment it's released, or you've pre-ordered weeks ahead of release, only to realize the title's a dud (speaking from experience here).
As always, caveat emptor.
No danger of that happening with SH4 I don't think. I was quite happy with SH3, even though it was limited, and SH4 only has more to offer.
flintlock
02-19-07, 01:45 PM
Agreed.
Though it's a little safer bet when you have a previous title in a franchise to base the next iteration on. Oh, and -- I'll admit, I pre-ordered last week. ;)
Drokkon
02-20-07, 03:33 AM
I got my start on subsims in the late 80s on consoles. Anyone here remember Silent Service on the Nintendo. They made a second on for the Super Nintendo but I couldn't find it in any stores in the midwest. Another great console game was 688 Attack Sub. If you wanted to man a russian Alpha sub you had better know your controls well. All the controls were in russian and the voice in the game spoke russian. These games didn't seem dumbed down to me for the time of their release and what these systems could do.Well Silent Service was pretty simple, but all you had was 4 buttons and not much memory on those old cartridges.
The only advantage a company has to do a game for the PC only is that they can release it unfinished then patch it to complete it. What would be great is if the console game came out after the PC gamers had beta tested it.:D I enjoy PC gaming, but to say that they have to dumb it down for the masses on consoles seem a bit rude to mature console players.
squigian
02-20-07, 08:14 AM
It certainly is possible, but there are a number of potential stumbling blocks:
Money: I've no idea how much it would cost to distribute the game for multiple formats, but I think the potential sales figures would probably cover it. Whether the gamble would pay off, though, is another matter...
Time: It will take a fair bit longer to configure the controls and balance for both titles as well as tailor the graphics to suit the different consoles. Add a month or so to the ETA.
Simplification: Before you cry foul, I think that this is inevitable should the console sales come first in the publisher's mind. The fact is, despite the mature gamers playing, that a lot of kids own the platforms and their parents have money. This wouldn't ruin the game, it would still be fun, but I cite the following examples: Deus Ex: Invisible War and Oblivion. Both fun (I'm playing a lot of the second right now) games, but lacking in the depth of their predecessors. To counteract this, the PC must remain the foremost platform in the developer's head.
Perhaps it's perfectly possible to port the periscope to a plethora of platforms, but the PC must remain the dominant market, to my mind, to preserve what we have already.
hi squigian,
you touched on one of my all time faves, deus ex, I agree the follow up was dissapointing in many ways, although i still enjoyed it and completed it.
But equaly i feel that in this short space of time from xbox to 360, the market is steadily shifting. Xbox one was more about MS gaining a foot hold into the console market. unlike now, where more and more gamers are utilising the 360 in preference to the PC - I guess if Warren spector was given the spondoolies to make a proper deus ex on the 360 we might see a much better attempt! I also think the average playing age is rising all time on 360 and other consoles too.
Anyway we can dream about DX3 sometime cant we, in the meantime we have bioshock!:rock:
flintlock
02-20-07, 12:06 PM
The fact is, despite the mature gamers playing, that a lot of kids own the platforms and their parents have money.
If a publisher brings a previously PC exclusive title to the consoles, you bet their first concern is maximizing sales. If this goal can be achived via sacrificing the integrity of the previous PC exclusive, then economics 101 dictates that's what you do. A publisher needs to ensure the UI is easier and the gameplay is faster and packs a lot of action to accommodate for the younger children who will convince mom and dad to buy the game. Sure there's a middle ground that needs to be met because you still have mature gamers to cater too. Inevitably however, you typically end up with a dumbed down (in varying degrees) and consolized version of the former title. The frustration to many PC gamers is they now receive a console port rather than the previous dedicated and focused development cycle afforded the PC (due largely to economics).
examples: Deus Ex: Invisible War and Oblivion. Both fun games, but lacking in the depth of their predecessors. I suspect that the lack of depth may be magnified in a simulation title.
To counteract this, the PC must remain the foremost platform in the developer's head. The reality is the focus and funding goes to where the numbers are, and that is almost always consoles when up against the PC. I enjoy playing on consoles as much as the next gamer, but some genres lend themselves better to specific platforms. Racing games and sports titles in general I prefer to play on a console. A simulation that can be strategic, tactical and generally has a slower gameplay pace - I prefer to play on a PC.
The point is tho flintlock,
as I keep saying me shipmates, the tide is turning, things are changing!
And like global warming it must be stopped! :rotfl:
embrace the future boris - lets toast together :rotfl:
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