Periscope performance at night

[AndyW]

Question to the mod community (please forgive me if that has been discussed before): Is it possible to reduce the sight of the periscope at nights without moon (cloudy weather) to "very bad / dark"?

I'm asking, because in real life submerged night attacks rarely took place, except during clear nights with bright moon. I guess that was also due to the poor night vision capabilities of the attack periscope. Right now I think SH is modelling submerged night attacks way too easy to suceeed as I see the targets very good through the periscope at dark nights.


Modelling a bad periscope performance at dark nights would force the Kaleun to ride a surface attack, which would be the historically appropriate conduct.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

[Sailor Steve]

No ideas here, other than that I think that's a very good one. I've wanted it for a long time, but never asked, as I didn't think it possible.

[ref]

Modelling a bad periscope performance at dark nights would force the Kaleun to ride a surface attack, which would be the historically appropriate conduct.


What would be the difference between a submerged attack and a surfaced attack in terms of visibility if the night is dark?

Ref

[AVGWarhawk]

Modelling a bad periscope performance at dark nights would force the Kaleun to ride a surface attack, which would be the historically appropriate conduct.

What would be the difference between a submerged attack and a surfaced attack in terms of visibility if the night is dark?

Ref

Very rarely was the scope used at night because the visiblity was not great at all. Visibility was better surfaced not to mention there were several eyes looking as opposed to two in a scope at night with water blurring the vision as well. From what I understand the German optics were the best in the world at the time but the scope for night attack was still lacking.

[ref]

My point is that the UZO shouldn't be that much better than the scope, if the night is to dark for one it should be for the other, as for the watch crew my guess is that after detecting a possible target their work is mostly done.

Ref

[AndyW]

I arrived at this conclusion that after having read dozens of memoirs, personal accounts and war diaries of former U-boat Kaleuns...the standard attack at night was a surface attack even if that naturally included a greater risk of being detected. I read very rarely about submerged night attacks and if so only under very beneficial circumstances like full moon & clear weather.

I'm not a physician :88) , but I believe there is a difference in the luminous intesity between the "short" UZO (a night binocular, if you like) and the periscope with all it's mirrors and varying distances between the first ocular and the Kaleun's eye.

From my personal experience, I also tend to say that I see more nuances and more "depth" in darkness with my own eyes compared to using binoculars.

Well, bottom line is, that I think the SH III periscope is way to perfect at night compared to the UZO. I almost never take the risk to attack on surface if I'm also in a good enough position to attack submerged. And that is just not the way the real u-boats scored at night, they did it on surface.

Cheers,

[Mush Martin]

Uzo on Us boats. TDC linked heavy Binocs had slightly better
light gathering properties than early periscopes.
MM

[Sailor Steve]

My point is that the UZO shouldn't be that much better than the scope, if the night is to dark for one it should be for the other, as for the watch crew my guess is that after detecting a possible target their work is mostly done.

Ref
The lens of the periscope is tiny compared to the UZO. It just didn't let in enough light to be useful at night.

[ref]

I can't argue with that, neither of us can, no one on this forum had the chance to compare how much does the u-boats periscopes diminish the amount of light transfered compared to the UZO, I'm going to a much simpler thing, if the night is dark enough (no moon), there's no light to diminish, if you can't see nothing through the scope then most likelly you won't see nothing with the uzo, binoculars or naked eyes, I never been at the sea in a dark night, but I've been plenty of times at night camping away from the city, if there's no artificial light, no moon and the stars are clouded, you can't see your hands in front of your eyes..., much less a ship at 1000 meters.

Quoting the first post :
Is it possible to reduce the sight of the periscope at nights without moon (cloudy weather) to "very bad / dark"?


I don't know what kind of graphic card/monitor combo AndyW has, but with my rig "I" can't see nothing on my scope on that weather conditions.

Ref

[Bill Nichols]

My point is that the UZO shouldn't be that much better than the scope, if the night is to dark for one it should be for the other, as for the watch crew my guess is that after detecting a possible target their work is mostly done.

Ref
The lens of the periscope is tiny compared to the UZO. It just didn't let in enough light to be useful at night.

Sailor Steve gets the prize!
:ahoy:

[sunvalleyslim]

All right you landlubbers, here's my take. I have stood lookout watches on the bridge of a diesel boat many a night. Both with a moon and without. Sailor Steve is right no need to try the scope it's too small and minimum visibilty. On the bridge however the binocs work very well when you have some illumination. They work even better than your eyes.
But no moon, no ships running with lights, just the stars.........you're right, can't see s**t. Better to trust your radarman if you want to take the chance to find something out there.

[Anvart]

My point is that the UZO shouldn't be that much better than the scope, if the night is to dark for one it should be for the other, as for the watch crew my guess is that after detecting a possible target their work is mostly done.

Ref
The lens of the periscope is tiny compared to the UZO. It just didn't let in enough light to be useful at night.
OK.
There is a term the aperture (aperture diaphragm) of the optical device.
Than more the aperture (and lenses accordingly) the better (and cost there is more) visibility.
And losses (dispersion) of light in a periscope it is more than (for example) in the binocular (field-glass).

[Indy676]

Hy Kaleuns

I'm the navigational Chiefpettyoffizier of a german UBoot. Our aktuell Periscope is much better then in WWII even better then 10 jears ago. In dark nights you can sea nearly nothing. You have problems seaing the horizon. And in comparison to our periscops the WWII periscops were very bad. If you are on the surface and using binoculars you have a realy good sight. And the UZO on german WWII UBoots were the best of the world at the time. Tey were build for a realy good nightvision.:o So a bad nightvision for the peri is a realy good idea if it is possible in SHIII. It dont have to be only a bad night vision. I believe the day vision is to good to.:hmm:
Greetings Indy

[GT182]

They fed the UZO and both scopes carrots for SHIII, that's why they're so good a night. :yep: ;)

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Welcome to SubSim, Indy676, and big thanks for your info. Very interesting. :up:

[GT182]

Great info Indy. :up:

Isn't vision for all optics hardcoded in SHIII? If it is, I'd think it would be impossible to change it not having the code.

[cobalt]

where is the periscope file to edit?

[Hartmann]

Modelling a bad periscope performance at dark nights would force the Kaleun to ride a surface attack, which would be the historically appropriate conduct.


What would be the difference between a submerged attack and a surfaced attack in terms of visibility if the night is dark?

Ref

Because light gathering and image resolution depends of the optics diameter.

i know it very well because i like astronomy and telescopes and it´s not the same looking with a 8x30 binocular compared with a 20x80 or 20x100 mm
perhaps periscope lens could be used but don´t expect a very good vision in moonless nights

could be realistic a dark night periscope , but the other part of the game have to work well, in spotting ranges, ia detection and other values , enough for do surface attacks.
But i prefer a working periscope at night for a good gameplay :hmm:

[Vader 1]

Could you not adjust the "red mask" for the periscope. just make it darker.?

So yes you can use the scope, but you will not see that far.