SH4 removes some functionality from SH3

[Tikigod]

Although they have added what looks like alot more immersive content...they removed these two features:

1. "Due to the accelerated development cycle of this title, the damage control screen and radio stations are simplified from previous versions. The damage control center does not have a sub cutaway with little compartments, fires, and flooding animations. However, the player is given the ability to group several damage teams with experts and more efficiently prioritize the tasks."

2. "There is no dedicated station depicting a radio room, simply a clipboard with the radio traffic. "
"The lack of a radio room station is a casualty of an aggressive schedule, and can in no way be construed as a showstopper. However, for a title that rightfully prides itself on bleeding edge graphics and ambiance, realistic animated crews and 3D environments, this is a small step back. If anything, I was hoping SH4 would include all the stations present in SH3, and possibly expand into new compartments. The radio room and captain’s quarters in SH3 had no real gameplay function but don’t discount the value they have on creating the mood while playing the game."

http://www.subsim.com/sh4/demo_sh4.php

[hyperion2206]

Although they have added what looks like alot more immersive content...they removed these two features:

1. "Due to the accelerated development cycle of this title, the damage control screen and radio stations are simplified from previous versions. The damage control center does not have a sub cutaway with little compartments, fires, and flooding animations. However, the player is given the ability to group several damage teams with experts and more efficiently prioritize the tasks."

2. "There is no dedicated station depicting a radio room, simply a clipboard with the radio traffic. "
"The lack of a radio room station is a casualty of an aggressive schedule, and can in no way be construed as a showstopper. However, for a title that rightfully prides itself on bleeding edge graphics and ambiance, realistic animated crews and 3D environments, this is a small step back. If anything, I was hoping SH4 would include all the stations present in SH3, and possibly expand into new compartments. The radio room and captain’s quarters in SH3 had no real gameplay function but don’t discount the value they have on creating the mood while playing the game."

http://www.subsim.com/sh4/demo_sh4.php

True, but I don't really mind because IMHO damage control and the radio room are 'just' eye candy. It would have been nice to have the radio room but gameplay won't suffer I guess.

[DanCanovas]

so how will damage control work exactly. i think this is a major feature of any sub sim, the excitement of repairing and limping away!

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

so how will damage control work exactly. i think this is a major feature of any sub sim, the excitement of repairing and limping away!

Same as before, just minus the animations which didn't really add anything. As long as the information telling you when flooding, for example, has been brought under control - suits me.

[Boris]

I can understand leaving the radio room out due to time constraints... but the damage repair screen?
How hard could it be to come up with some 2d graphics for it? Hell I could do it in a day. Not sure how much programming would have to go into it, but I can't imagine that it would be that hard. Than again I might be wrong.

[Safe-Keeper]

Look at the tiny submarine image. It wouldn't exactly be easy to implement too many details. And as was said (as I understood it), damage won't be represented in the image anyway, so what's the use.

[Hartmann]

I think is the most important screen of your boat, were you can see how damaged is with a glimpse. what compartment is in red, yellow or blue (flooding). :doh:

Damage screen of Sh1

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1613/sh000sm0.jpg

[flintlock]

It would have been nice to have the radio room but gameplay won't suffer I guess.I was quite surprised to read this snippet from Neal's article. I would have expected the next iteration of the series to add to the sections modeled within the subs, not subtract from the already arguably limited list as it stands. I'll concede that while the radio room isn't as critical as the control room, having it modeled serves an important function for many--it adds to the immersion of the experience. And that shouldn't be underestimated.

Whilst on patrol, all you have is the sub you're sailing in. At various times on patrol, I would appreciate and enjoy the freedom of exploring various compartments of my sub (contol room, engine room, torpedo room, etc). To have this ability adds immeasurably to the level of immersion you experience in a sim such as this. As good as SH4 is looking, I was dissapointed to read the develpment cycle for SH4 is being rushed. I would've preferred the devs had an unaccelerated development timeline, rather than be constrained by a limiting "accelerated development cyle" snapping at their heels.

While I can certainly appreciate that modeling extra compartments is time and resource consuming (read dollar), in the end I can't help but believe Ubi would deliver a superior product, period. Personally, I would've been willing to pay extra and wait longer for SH4's release. That being said, it is what it is. I can't deny the project looks exciting, and while I eagerly await the release--I can't help but wonder how much better it could have been.

[Shaffer4]

seems to me that the only reason for the inclusion of the Radio Room in SH3 was the fact that it was also the Radar station and that radio traffic was presented... on a clipboard as well, so the radio equipment shown was merely eye candy. Judging by neil's wonderful preview there is a radar station in the game... so... I can hardly see where any functionality is lost there, other than some eye candy.

The change in the Damage control station is minor to me, as the crew Automation has lessened its need somewhat, and the new crew shift setup has taken up most of the screen where the damage information was displayed. It seems a fair compromise to me.

[Iron Budokan]

Will it take ten seconds to repair the damage like in stock SH3? :roll:

[CCIP]

Will it take ten seconds to repair the damage like in stock SH3? :roll:

That's the part that worries me.

Otherwise I would say that it's not true that it removes functionality. Why, we may have had a separate radio room, but it all still came down to a notepad which, thanks to the canned comms of the game, was really almost useless. This may reduce the amount of screen space dedicated to it, but if it makes radio comms more dynamic - then it's an increase in functionality.

Then there's the damage control - I think we'll see about this. What functionality did we have, other than an open compartment graphic that showed flooding levels? As soon as we have 1) reports of what's damaged; 2) reports of how long it takes to fix, I think we're good. And unless SHIV goes the way of 'health' for the sub (and I know the devs aren't stupid enough to do that), I think it would again be an increase in functionality as we're already promised a 'smart' repair team that will switch compartments on their own.

[TheSatyr]

I was afraid that adding in the S-Class would cause them to take something out...apparently I was right.

As nice as it is to have S-Class subs i would have rather of had the radio rooms and an improved damage control screen...oh well.

[donut]

:up: I think is the most important screen of your boat, were you can see how damaged is with a glimpse. what compartment is in red, yellow or blue (flooding). :doh:

Damage screen of Sh1

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1613/sh000sm0.jpg :rock: How much time does this take? Remember some repairs could be done only surfaced.

[peterloo]

Anyway, this is the blame to the agreesive timetable...

But modders will make it all right... With them, it is not a tough problem... Even in SH2, we have mod to transform every stuff from Atlantic to Pacific...

[AJ!]

I was afraid that adding in the S-Class would cause them to take something out...apparently I was right.

As nice as it is to have S-Class subs i would have rather of had the radio rooms and an improved damage control screen...oh well.

Well you see thats the problem. No ones ever happy :up:

If it was the other way around people would be complaining there is no S class.... I think we should be happy with all the cool new stuff in game and not dwel on two small losses.

Like people have said they were just eye candy really and while i am alittle dissapointed at the loss of damage control and radio room its not that huge an impact.

[StandingCow]

I was disappointed when I heard about the damage control system... but, I am going to wait and see how it is handled.. maybe it will be more realistic or just as fun.

[Hartmann]

Also when the engine room have a heavy flooding the engines take damage by water. very bad if is a electric engine because the speed is reduced.

I will play later some single mission in sh1 to see repair times for "historical gameplay reference" :rotfl:

[TteFAboB]

I like the damage control screen just because it helps me scale and measure the size of the boats. It's simply cool. Who doesn't like gazing over colored cutaways? If I were Ubisoft I'd delay the game a month to, by the contrary, add animated cutaways. No, not just fire and flood! I'd add the crew members in there! Walking, working, sleeping, reloading torpedos. Ahh, my own little toy sub. And it's alive! It doesn't even has to be good actually. The cutaway from the original B-17 sim would suffice. Dull animation is better than no animation at all. That's why I liked the damage screen. To me its removal is a drawback and will force me to search for boring black & white or blue & white cutaways on the internet.

Perhaps there is hope for the screen to be modable. Even if you can't make it functional, at least give me a damned static cutaway. Pleeeease! :cry:

[Tikigod]

I agree...since everyone doesn't care about the "eye candy" they should remove all the graphics of sh3/sh4 and just give us complete real working 2-D compartment models....they could probably design SH5 using macromedia flash which would save ubisoft alot of money and time on developing the current limited gaming engine. I'm sure no one would mind if they remove all of the 3-D environment. Its all just "eye candy" anyway and there is no real need for it. It seems many of the older games that simply use 2-D environments have more interesting gameplay than their 3-D counterparts.

I'm looking forward to SH5 I hope its 2-D all the way :up: We could certainly do away with the control room next (I have 2-D interfaces and gauges that provide more functionality, than standing around looking at the helm in 3-D) I mean what were the developers thinking when they designed these 3-D compartments?! 3-D compartments just get in the way of things.

I'm pretty upset they removed the 2-D damage control screen. They didn't even replace it with a 3-D model. Instead they are replacing it with TEXT. I'm starting to see a pattern here. Maybe plans for SH6 will be to turn the Silent Hunter series into a MUD server and have the entire game in plain text that way they can remove the graphics all together! :o

I think is the most important screen of your boat, were you can see how damaged is with a glimpse. what compartment is in red, yellow or blue (flooding). :doh:
Damage screen of Sh1

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

I agree...since everyone doesn't care about the "eye candy" they should remove all the graphics of sh3/sh4 and just give us complete real working 2-D compartment models....they could probably design SH5 using macromedia flash which would save ubisoft alot of money and time on developing the current limited gaming engine. I'm sure no one would mind if they remove all of the 3-D environment. Its all just "eye candy" anyway and there is no real need for it. It seems many of the older games that simply use 2-D environments have more interesting gameplay than their 3-D counterparts.

I'm looking forward to SH5 I hope its 2-D all the way :up: We could certainly do away with the control room next (I have 2-D interfaces and gauges that provide more functionality, than standing around looking at the helm in 3-D) I mean what were the developers thinking when they designed these 3-D compartments?! 3-D compartments just get in the way of things.

I'm pretty upset they removed the 2-D damage control screen. They didn't even replace it with a 3-D model. Instead they are replacing it with TEXT. I'm starting to see a pattern here. Maybe plans for SH6 will be to turn the Silent Hunter series into a MUD server and have the entire game in plain text that way they can remove the graphics all together! :o

I think is the most important screen of your boat, were you can see how damaged is with a glimpse. what compartment is in red, yellow or blue (flooding). :doh:
Damage screen of Sh1



That's a very long winded spelling of 'facetious'.

[Iron Budokan]

:rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl:

[hyperion2206]

I agree...since everyone doesn't care about the "eye candy" they should remove all the graphics of sh3/sh4 and just give us complete real working 2-D compartment models....they could probably design SH5 using macromedia flash which would save ubisoft alot of money and time on developing the current limited gaming engine. I'm sure no one would mind if they remove all of the 3-D environment. Its all just "eye candy" anyway and there is no real need for it. It seems many of the older games that simply use 2-D environments have more interesting gameplay than their 3-D counterparts.

I'm looking forward to SH5 I hope its 2-D all the way :up: We could certainly do away with the control room next (I have 2-D interfaces and gauges that provide more functionality, than standing around looking at the helm in 3-D) I mean what were the developers thinking when they designed these 3-D compartments?! 3-D compartments just get in the way of things.

I'm pretty upset they removed the 2-D damage control screen. They didn't even replace it with a 3-D model. Instead they are replacing it with TEXT. I'm starting to see a pattern here. Maybe plans for SH6 will be to turn the Silent Hunter series into a MUD server and have the entire game in plain text that way they can remove the graphics all together! :o

I think is the most important screen of your boat, were you can see how damaged is with a glimpse. what compartment is in red, yellow or blue (flooding). :doh:
Damage screen of Sh1



Don't understand why you're so upset, after all the radio room in SH3 was only a shack where 2 guys where turning wheels. Nothing one could really do. Ok, it's nice to go there and see how "hard" your guys are working but it does not improve the gameplay.:p
Oh, and if you want 'immersion' you can got to the command room or the conning tower as well.:p

[Safe-Keeper]

I was disappointed by the removal of the radio room, too, but I don't really mind it too much. The game is obviously allocated less time than it needs to, and it's far better that they sacrifice esthetical features than actual game-play.

To illustrate, Silent Hunter III had a radio room - it also had empty harbours and gave you the same "Patrol grid XXAA for 24 hours" objective every patrol.

[The WosMan]

http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/1177/img2870xr2.jpg
I believe this is the radio room on a Gato Class. I took this when I was at the USS Cod in Cleveland back in August. If I remember correctly it was pretty far away from the command room, up toward the officers quarters near the front of the boat. Directly in front of the command room was the galley and kitchen. Maybe this is why it isn't modeled because you would have to walk though all that other stuff to get to it and of course they wouldnt want to do all that.

[Torpex752]

I like everything I read about SHIV, but let me assure anyone who wishes to simulate real submarining that real submariners WWII to present eat, breathe, and sleep damage control. Not giving a subsim a damage control screen is reverting SH4 to an SH2 style, in my experience taking a huge step backwards.

Commanding Officers ALWAYS make tatical decisions based on the condition of their boat's readiness, and when damaged you absolutely must know how long certain repairs will take. You also must be able to dictate what the priorities are for the damage control team are at critical moments! I would sure hate to need my tubes fixed first and the programmer decided that flooding must always be fixed first! Especially if I sit in 60 feet of water and have a dire need to shoot my tubes.

So my hope is that this will be remedied in the first patch. (PLEASE) :)


Frank
:cool:

[The WosMan]

I just hope they include that awesome linoleum floor on the sub like you see in my picture.

Personally, the damage control screen doesn't bother me that much. Until I know more about how the crew reports damage will dictate my final view. I can tell you they didn't have realtime graphics of a sub with animated fires and flooding in real life back in WW2. I doubt a modern nuke sub would have this.

If you want realism then what you should get is an announcement over the PA of your crew screaming damage and then you tell your guys what to do and expect them to fix it. I would have liked to see more of the ship modeled though but that is a pretty tall task to do it for each type of submarine. US boats were pretty darn big. The Cod (Gato) is a huge upscale hotel inside compared to what the germans were stuck in. There was quite a bit of room to move around in and it suprised me because I thought it was going to be a bit more clustrophobic.

[flintlock]

I just hope they include that awesome linoleum floor on the sub like you see in my picture.Me too, that stuff is chic. Didn't realize vinyl linoleum was around during the '40s. That sure is a sexy green though. ;)

[Shaffer4]

Its not Vinyl... its Linoleum...

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/linoleum.htm

;)

[hyperion2206]

I like everything I read about SHIV, but let me assure anyone who wishes to simulate real submarining that real submariners WWII to present eat, breathe, and sleep damage control. Not giving a subsim a damage control screen is reverting SH4 to an SH2 style, in my experience taking a huge step backwards.

Commanding Officers ALWAYS make tatical decisions based on the condition of their boat's readiness, and when damaged you absolutely must know how long certain repairs will take. You also must be able to dictate what the priorities are for the damage control team are at critical moments! I would sure hate to need my tubes fixed first and the programmer decided that flooding must always be fixed first! Especially if I sit in 60 feet of water and have a dire need to shoot my tubes.

So my hope is that this will be remedied in the first patch. (PLEASE) :)


Frank
:cool:

Did you play Aces of the Deep? I liked how the devs made the damage control screen: it was a blue print of your sub and the CE circled the damaged parts of the sub. You could click on them and get detail info, I want that back.:rock:;)

[Jimbuna]

I like everything I read about SHIV, but let me assure anyone who wishes to simulate real submarining that real submariners WWII to present eat, breathe, and sleep damage control. Not giving a subsim a damage control screen is reverting SH4 to an SH2 style, in my experience taking a huge step backwards.

Commanding Officers ALWAYS make tatical decisions based on the condition of their boat's readiness, and when damaged you absolutely must know how long certain repairs will take. You also must be able to dictate what the priorities are for the damage control team are at critical moments! I would sure hate to need my tubes fixed first and the programmer decided that flooding must always be fixed first! Especially if I sit in 60 feet of water and have a dire need to shoot my tubes.

So my hope is that this will be remedied in the first patch. (PLEASE) :)


Frank
:cool:

DITTO :up:

[Torpex752]

I like everything I read about SHIV, but let me assure anyone who wishes to simulate real submarining that real submariners WWII to present eat, breathe, and sleep damage control. Not giving a subsim a damage control screen is reverting SH4 to an SH2 style, in my experience taking a huge step backwards.

Commanding Officers ALWAYS make tatical decisions based on the condition of their boat's readiness, and when damaged you absolutely must know how long certain repairs will take. You also must be able to dictate what the priorities are for the damage control team are at critical moments! I would sure hate to need my tubes fixed first and the programmer decided that flooding must always be fixed first! Especially if I sit in 60 feet of water and have a dire need to shoot my tubes.

So my hope is that this will be remedied in the first patch. (PLEASE) :)


Frank
:cool:

Did you play Aces of the Deep? I liked how the devs made the damage control screen: it was a blue print of your sub and the CE circled the damaged parts of the sub. You could click on them and get detail info, I want that back.:rock:;)

Yes I did, played nearly every subsim that was ever made electronically. (not braggin just answering the question) and I base my "experience" on having served in the submarine force for 20 years and having studied WWII subs for over 30 years. My comment is based on an unbiased comparison/study of the three areas together, subsim experience WWII history and personal experience in the sub community. Not Bragging, Its just been my passion since I was twelve...even joined the navy and choose subs to dive in as deep as I could. While there it was amazing to see how similar the roles of the crew in subs have remained. The technological advances and the remaining similarities. All in all SH3 has the best atmosphere, and I was so hopeful that SH4 would build straight "up" and continue to enhance and expand on all of what was already there. It sounds like SH4 has done most of that but has neglected one large area. Sure, we didnt have a 3d rendered grafics screen showing water and fire on our boats, the stuff was there!. However when you are not on a sub and cannot "feel" the heat, humidity, cold, high CO2, low O2 levels, experience the pounding headaches, smell the smells, choke on the smoke, having a visual representation of these items to "see" the mess and make decisions based off of that mess is and should be part of the experience. Modern submarine simulations continue to lack those visual (one of the senses yes?) elements and IMHO are only half done. Could they be better? Why not? If they can model crew management, why remove damage control management? Are they not truely interlaced? You cant have one without the other as far as I have ever seen. So while I am excited that SH4 looks and does the things it does have I am sad not to see the item that makes up almost 50% or a submariners life neglected (or so it seems).

Thanks for letting me reply.

Frank

:cool:

[The WosMan]

Shaffer4Its not Vinyl... its Linoleum...

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstart...a/linoleum.htm (http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/linoleum.htm)

Hahaha, yeah and the best part was when it was first invented back in the 1800s it wasn't considered a cheap floor covering like that article says. You were the cats a$$ if you could put it in your house and only the rich people could afford it. Saw that on the History channel.

Never placed Aces but I like the way that sounds. A blueprint is what you should have and then as damage accumulates the graphic looks like somebody with a pencil in handwriting circles the area and writes what the damage is. As it is fixed the writing gets erased.

[elanaiba]

Due to the accelerated development cycle of this title, the damage control screen and radio stations are simplified from previous versions. The damage control center does not have a sub cutaway with little compartments, fires, and flooding animations. However, the player is given the ability to group several damage teams with experts and more efficiently prioritize the tasks.

Neal's article says simplified, not eliminated.

[Torpex752]

Due to the accelerated development cycle of this title, the damage control screen and radio stations are simplified from previous versions. The damage control center does not have a sub cutaway with little compartments, fires, and flooding animations. However, the player is given the ability to group several damage teams with experts and more efficiently prioritize the tasks.

Neal's article says simplified, not eliminated.


True, "simplified" is the word, however damage control is not simple. I could deal with out the cutaway as long as they dont simplify what is damaged by giving the damage a % or worse yet, generalizing anything that could get damaged into a compartment group %. SH3 had it about as simple as it should ever be as it didnt really say what was wrong with something, IE: an engine, but gave a time to repair what was wrong. Simplifying the damage control teams to mirror the US navy's system of a Watch Quarter and station bill (still used today), would definitly feel simplified compared to SH3's method (or lack of).
So I get a tad bit nervous because I have seen what "simplified" damage control results in. Should it be simplified because the dev team figured that a Commanding Officer didnt need to be bothered with certain details, may want to reconsider that. The Officer Submarine qualification program of the 30's contained many of the same elements as todays in that the there was a pipeline of training and duties that every CO went through. Basically, one was to understand submarines, submarine construction, and engineering thoroughly and know many, many details. So in combat, when the CO hears that an inner torpedo tube gasket has failed, he understands the priority that needs over a leaking periscope packing, a few cracked battery cells, or blown trimp pump fuses.
Sorry if I seem overly anal I just think that while how things look does deserve attention, so does the mechanics of the submarine and her crew in order to continue giving a greater feel for the complexities of submarine warfare and how interlaced a crew becomes with their boat.

Frank
:cool:

[Hartmann]

I hope that they only simplified the visual eye candy , the essential and detailed information must be there. :hmm:

i can live without a cutaway of the boat with animated effects and i will use the cuts from sh1 at least for a bit eye candy but i think that is a step back.

[Sailor Steve]

I really liked the SHI animated fires and flooding, but in fact AOD's blueprint with the damaged areas circled was much more realistic. As long as I get reports telling me what's going on I'll be satisfied.

[flintlock]

Its not Vinyl... its LinoleumLinseed oil, pigments, pine rosin and pine flour--who'd guessed?

[Skywolf]

Hmm.. UBI rushes again?

I'd rather have the so-called "eye-candy".

If they, Ubi or the Devs, are not going to do it in the retail version (Which is what is going to happen according to the interviews and posts)....

PLEASE do an expansion that includes ALL the interiors and revamped Damage control screen!!!

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

BTW... I've bought the SH games before this. SH1 through SH3. So you'd be loosing a long time customer of the franchise. :down:

[Sorry if I sound passionate, I love the work that the Devs have done in the past and now, but whenever I hear about a "accelerated schedule" I can't help but thinking of some CEO only looking at some rushed profit and not really caring about the game or the potential of what the Devs could truly do if given a non-rushed schedule.]

[flintlock]

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.
I'd prefer the whole sub be modeled too but c'mon, you know you'll still buy SH4. Resistance is futile. ;)

[Nightmare]

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

You aren’t going to buy SH4 because all the compartments aren’t modeled? This is just silly to me. You do realize that simulations in general aren’t a hot item on the gaming market, don’t you? Even then, flight sims sell better than naval/submarine sims by a wide margin. We should be thankful that there are developers and game publishers out there that still see this small market. People not buying the game very well means we won’t see SH5, or at the very least not for a very long time.

SH4 has been in development for less than year. Ubi put a tight timetable since it uses SH3 as base to build off of, and this is the only reason why we are seeing SH4 so soon after the release of SH3. Modeling compartments takes time, then on top of that you have to code crew behavior in those compartments. Can you imagine this forms reaction if you didn’t actually see the crew reloading those torpedo tubes? Again that takes a lot of time, time which could be put else where on game play improvements (like not being stuck at playing the game at 1024x768 resolution).

Completely OT gripe: I’m super excited about the release of SH4 and can’t wait for it to get here, but I’m increasingly starting to dread it at the same time. I fear the forms are going to be nothing but complaining and disappointment from people who had high (unrealistic) expectations. Sh4 is nothing more than Sh3 in the Pacific with some graphical and game play fixes/additions that had roughly a year development cycle.

[Sailor Steve]

I fear the forms are going to be nothing but complaining and disappointment from people who had high (unrealistic) expectations. Sh4 is nothing more than Sh3 in the Pacific with some graphical and game play fixes/additions that had roughly a year development cycle.
And with good reason. That's exactly what happened with SHIII: lots of complaining. Of course there were a lot of others who said "So what? This is still the best subsim ever."

Of course there will be complaints, and a lot of them will be of the "I didn't get exactly what I wanted" variety. That's the way it goes. If the game can make me forget SHI and immerse myself in the feel of it, I won't complain at all.

Well, maybe a little...:lol:

[fire-fox]

Hmm.. UBI rushes again?

I'd rather have the so-called "eye-candy".

If they, Ubi or the Devs, are not going to do it in the retail version (Which is what is going to happen according to the interviews and posts)....

PLEASE do an expansion that includes ALL the interiors and revamped Damage control screen!!!

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

BTW... I've bought the SH games before this. SH1 through SH3. So you'd be loosing a long time customer of the franchise. :down:

[Sorry if I sound passionate, I love the work that the Devs have done in the past and now, but whenever I hear about a "accelerated schedule" I can't help but thinking of some CEO only looking at some rushed profit and not really caring about the game or the potential of what the Devs could truly do if given a non-rushed schedule.]

this is a COMPUTER GAME, if you wont to go and load torpedos in the tubes your self go and sine up.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Hmm.. UBI rushes again?

I'd rather have the so-called "eye-candy".

If they, Ubi or the Devs, are not going to do it in the retail version (Which is what is going to happen according to the interviews and posts)....

PLEASE do an expansion that includes ALL the interiors and revamped Damage control screen!!!

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

BTW... I've bought the SH games before this. SH1 through SH3. So you'd be loosing a long time customer of the franchise. :down:

[Sorry if I sound passionate, I love the work that the Devs have done in the past and now, but whenever I hear about a "accelerated schedule" I can't help but thinking of some CEO only looking at some rushed profit and not really caring about the game or the potential of what the Devs could truly do if given a non-rushed schedule.]

Och, just hud yer weesht

[flintlock]

Why are so many hard on Skywolf?

Everyone has their own opinion and though it may differ from yours, that doesn't make it any less valid. Different things hold different importance to different people for different reasons. This is subsim.com, full of sub simming enthusiasts! Spirited conversation with unique opinions makes for interesting reading. :)

[tommyk]

well said flintlock!

I very much like to take my time in SH3. Get out of habour... Watch the seagulls... admire the scene... plan the course... spend time at captains bunk and listening to songs of Rina Ketty... all not realy vital action parts of modern games but I like the way SH3 gameplay flows until the prey is sighted and the hunt finally begins... love it!

I hope SH4 brings more of that SH3 immersion and does not have "killed 80 planes in 5 minutes, yeah" focus in gameplay...

[flyingdane]

well said flintlock!

I very much like to take my time in SH3. Get out of habour... Watch the seagulls... admire the scene... plan the course... spend time at captains bunk and listening to songs of Rina Ketty... all not realy vital action parts of modern games but I like the way SH3 gameplay flows until the prey is sighted and the hunt finally begins... love it!

I hope SH4 brings more of that SH3 immersion and does not have "killed 80 planes in 5 minutes, yeah" focus in gameplay...

Hehehe..Like this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/flyingdane/whitepoop5ne.jpg

btw Im not the auther of this pic.

[flintlock]

lol -- awesome pic! :up:

[Skywolf]

Geez... didn't mean to bother everyone so much.

Conceed to point 1. "It's just a computer game!!!"

Yes it is.

Point 2. It's a submarine SIMULATION. A Simulation that forgets to simulate other areas of the ship besides just the control/command room.

:o) Anyway, maybe I should repost in a more postive manner.

Everything that I have seen of SH4 I do like. I just wish that it had more. And, quite frankly, if I hadn't heard about a "rushed" cycle then I wouldn't have been so down on the lack of compartments issue.

[flyingdane]

Geez... didn't mean to bother everyone so much.

Conceed to point 1. "It's just a computer game!!!"

Yes it is.

Point 2. It's a submarine SIMULATION. A Simulation that forgets to simulate other areas of the ship besides just the control/command room.

:o) Anyway, maybe I should repost in a more postive manner.

Everything that I have seen of SH4 I do like. I just wish that it had more. And, quite frankly, if I hadn't heard about a "rushed" cycle then I wouldn't have been so down on the lack of compartments issue.

Hey your Cool.:up:

[Skywolf]

If they do a SH5 and do NOT have the interiors then I am NOT buying SH5 at all. I may not buy SH4 either. I am still waiting to decide.

You aren’t going to buy SH4 because all the compartments aren’t modeled? This is just silly to me. You do realize that simulations in general aren’t a hot item on the gaming market, don’t you? Even then, flight sims sell better than naval/submarine sims by a wide margin. We should be thankful that there are developers and game publishers out there that still see this small market. People not buying the game very well means we won’t see SH5, or at the very least not for a very long time.

SH4 has been in development for less than year. Ubi put a tight timetable since it uses SH3 as base to build off of, and this is the only reason why we are seeing SH4 so soon after the release of SH3. Modeling compartments takes time, then on top of that you have to code crew behavior in those compartments. Can you imagine this forms reaction if you didn’t actually see the crew reloading those torpedo tubes? Again that takes a lot of time, time which could be put else where on game play improvements (like not being stuck at playing the game at 1024x768 resolution).

Completely OT gripe: I’m super excited about the release of SH4 and can’t wait for it to get here, but I’m increasingly starting to dread it at the same time. I fear the forms are going to be nothing but complaining and disappointment from people who had high (unrealistic) expectations. Sh4 is nothing more than Sh3 in the Pacific with some graphical and game play fixes/additions that had roughly a year development cycle.

Yes, I do understand that subsims don't have a large market. I work in a similar small market area myself so everything becomes harder to come by and more expensive in general. It is.. what it is. I'll probably end up buying the game anyway, but it just really shocked me that the damage control screens appeared to take a step back as well as the lack of the radio room. (ESPECIALLY since this is being built on the SH3 engine).

But in the end, like I've said before, I don't blame the Devs. They've done an AMAZING job!! Hey.. If I'm the only person that wants the other compartments then of course it's not going to get done. No money involved with one person's wishes being met.

[Subnuts]

Hmm. Loose a little functionality, get a (somewhat) new graphics engine, a new theater with new enemies, new subs and weapons to play with, photo recon and lifeguard missions, streamlined crew management, and historical battles. Not a bad tradeoff I'd say.

[flintlock]

get a (somewhat) new graphics engine, a new theater with new enemies, new subs and weapons to play with, photo recon and lifeguard missions, streamlined crew management, and historical battles. When you put it that way, you make it sound like an expansion pack.

[Loaf]

As far as I am concerned, if reparing damage takes a realistic amount of time I won't be so worried about having a visual portrayal of it.

Really the only purpose of a damage control screen is to make it easier for the player to grasp the information needed to make decisions. Having said that, I am not clear on how SHIV will handle this - will you just receice verbal/text reports of damage as it occurs?

As far as the radio room goes, it's pure eye-candy. What the hell can you do in there you can't do some other way?

What we will spend a LOT of time doing in SHIV is looking at radar screens. Anybody who played SHI will understand how gameplay is transformed when you have two fully functional radars to use (as opposed to the semi-useless radar we know from SHIII). If I was going to whine for another compartment view, it would be the radar room. If that's an actual room... I can't remember off the top of my head where the radar was located in US subs.

[Rykaird]

well said flintlock!

I very much like to take my time in SH3. Get out of habour... Watch the seagulls... admire the scene... plan the course... spend time at captains bunk and listening to songs of Rina Ketty... all not realy vital action parts of modern games but I like the way SH3 gameplay flows until the prey is sighted and the hunt finally begins... love it!

I hope SH4 brings more of that SH3 immersion and does not have "killed 80 planes in 5 minutes, yeah" focus in gameplay...

That's me too. It isn't an action game for me, it's a role-playing game, where my role is the Kaleun.

Can't have everything, but for me the perfect game would clearly include the ability to walk from the bow to the stern through every compartment. I still always go to the Radio Room and wait while the "morse sounds" are playing, before the message downloads, rather than just hit the "M" key. And I pass through the conning tower on my way to the bridge (easier to read dials in there, for one thing).

It's a small thing, but I would like to have a full sub sim, not just a sub warfare sim. To me that includes the sub.

[Sailor Steve]

I disagree about the "Sub" part. I was a radioman (although on a destroyer), and the Captain visited us about once per month. Any message was fully decoded and prepared, then taken to the Captain or the Officer Of the Day on the bridge; they never came to us for messages.

Walking through the entire sub is fine, but it would probably mean giving up the internal motion, just as we lose it now when walking around the control room interior. That may be a fair trade-off, but I'm happy just the way it is.