RL Submariners

[wetwarev7]

I've allways been interested in hearing navy stories and hearing about what it was like living aboard ship, and now that I'm into SH3 and DW, I'd like to hear about life aboard a submarine. If any RL submariners would like to share, I would love to hear about it, specifically things like living conditions, the food, the various gadgets you got to mess around with on(or off) duty, what anemenities you missed most when the novelty of being on a sub wore off, and what kind of adjusments you had to make when your tour of duty was over(like trying to sleep in a room all by yourself, with no alarms going off, etc..:) )

Oh! I especially like hearing about jokes you played on others to overcome the boredom :P

[timmyg00]

I've allways been interested in hearing navy stories and hearing about what it was like living aboard ship, and now that I'm into SH3 and DW, I'd like to hear about life aboard a submarine. If any RL submariners would like to share, I would love to hear about it, specifically things like living conditions, the food, the various gadgets you got to mess around with on(or off) duty, what anemenities you missed most when the novelty of being on a sub wore off, and what kind of adjusments you had to make when your tour of duty was over(like trying to sleep in a room all by yourself, with no alarms going off, etc..:) )

Oh! I especially like hearing about jokes you played on others to overcome the boredom :P

I've got an article in the upcoming Subsim Almanac that describes much of what you're interested in...

http://www.subsim.com/almanac/

TG

[Kapitan]

OH MY GOD IT CANT BE !

timmy goo is back wow

Ok sorry for the hijack here

[timmyg00]

Never really left... been very busy. I need to clear my schedule so i can start re-exploring DW... it's been too long.

TG

[Bellman]

Great news Timmyg00 - 'Leadership position still open !'

Joflo :''Tim I hope that you will continue both to be standard bearer and the standard setter for our game. Your contribution has been and is immense.''

http://www.subclub.info/phpBB_subclub/viewtopic.php?t=14202&sid=a1b34a9c7e0bfc9c725535688102516b

The MP game badly needs you as a key stone.

With Patch 1.04, new LuwAmi mods and this news, DWs future is assured. :|\\

[Rip]

SUre, I'll share. I'll tell you the story about the second scariest event I ever had while poking holes in the ocean.

Twas the middle of the year in 82, and I was aboard the USS Jacksonville. Having been on the commisioning crew and just being commisioned the previous year. We were undergoing some type of readiness training which is what a newly commisioned boat or one coming from overhaul will do for almost a year after returning to actual sea duty. Anyway I am a little green behing the ears, although nearly qualified. Still a non-qual puke though and one without much experience in the realism level of at sea drills. Particularly the inspection ones.

Subs never announce that a situation is a drill. They want you to experience the real stresses of an emergency. I was aware of this but usually when you are drilling amonst the crew, there is still often some awareness that a certain type of drill may be going off in the next XX hours.

When the inspectors are on board it is constant monitoring and little about what might happen next is known among the crew. By the time you are in day 3 or 4 of the trip you are beat, because there is always something going on that requires you to be awake and on station. Often twiddling your thumbs wondering how much longer it may last.

Well several days in, I am offwatch and we have been without a shipwide drill long enough I am in a deep slumber. Dreaming about what I might do in various drills of course. My berthing area was on the middle level just forward of the galley, and coincidently the 3 inch signal launcher.

Suddenly I awake from my slumber to hear the most godawful loud flow noise I had ever heard in my life, and people yelling over the top of the deafoning noise. I couldn't make out words though. I lept from my top rack head a spining wondering what the hell was amiss. I felt my feet hit cold water as they hit the floor. Still dark I heard at almost that same moment the collision alarm. FLOODING in the LAUNCHER!!! OMFG I am going to friggin DIE! My knees almost buckled, but I kept my composure. Realized immedietly that my normal path to my station would be blocked by the on scene damage control party. I took the alternate path to reach my station and for the almost 2 hours that followed still believed that we had experienced a true flooding incident.

Only later would I find that clever use of a high pressure air line and a few buckets of cold water had accomplished the desired goal of determining how we might react when we truly did believe the emergency was real.

Never again did I have to wonder in the back of my mind if I could stay focused when faced with a deadly situation. If I hadn't lost my cool in that moment I was going to be just fine.

[Rip]

Here is a coll video I haven't noticed anyone else posting as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MUBgG6rzO8

[Bellman]

:D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIjZtgyPhS0&mode=related&search=

[timmyg00]

Great news Timmyg00 - 'Leadership position still open !'

Joflo :''Tim I hope that you will continue both to be standard bearer and the standard setter for our game. Your contribution has been and is immense.''

http://www.subclub.info/phpBB_subclub/viewtopic.php?t=14202&sid=a1b34a9c7e0bfc9c725535688102516b

The MP game badly needs you as a key stone.

With Patch 1.04, new LuwAmi mods and this news, DWs future is assured. I'll say one more thing and then we can let this thread get back on topic... I really wish i had the time. I'm currently taking programming classes, preparing to get married in the spring, and house-hunting. It doesn't leave much time for administrative duties, though i could probably get a game in here and there in MP, and fiddle around with SP.

Subs never announce that a situation is a drill. Things must get more slack with each succeeding generation... back in the 90s, when i was in, we always knew when there were drills (which makes me worry for the future!)... but maybe during ORSE and TRE, the time and place of drills were less well-known to the crew.

TG

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Subs never announce that a situation is a drill.

We had one captain who would run his own drills in the middle of the backwatch, sundays, whenever he thought that we needed to get sharp. He would get someone and they would grab one or two others and that was the total of the brief. Sometimes he would brief you 3 or 4 hours ahead of time. Something like go to RCC-1 and SCRAM the reactor or go and trip out a SSTG. The memorable one was when he had the AMR call away a sudden depressuization of the O2 generator (AKA the 'bomb'). Those who know that piece of gear KNOW that can be a BAD thing. He was asleep in his rack when that one happened. People were about to crap themselves when they announced (the COTW was in on it and purposely mis-reported to the OOD the values) the hydrogen partial presure in the boat. It was these total suprise drills that told you the difference betweeen what you know and what you THINK you know.

He was a tricky SOB but you know what? When they ran the TRE or ORSE drills, you could sleepwalk thru them. I still respect that man to this day and would go back in if he asked me to.

[LoBlo]

Here's a real life submarine question I've always wondered about...

How many toilets are there on an LA? :p
I'm thinking for 115 guys... one bad night for the cook and no matter how many there are its not going to be enough!:o :lol: :doh:

[Henson]

Here's a real life submarine question I've always wondered about...

How many toilets are there on an LA? :p
I'm thinking for 115 guys... one bad night for the cook and no matter how many there are its not going to be enough!:o :lol: :doh:

Up forward there are 8-10 if you count urinals (it's been awhile.)

Back aft? The official answer is none. :up:

[LoBlo]

Up forward there are 8-10 if you count urinals (it's been awhile.)

Back aft? The official answer is none. :up:

Official answer huh? What's the unofficial answer... when you gotta go,... pee into the nearest equipment hole! :o [j/k]

[Henson]

Up forward there are 8-10 if you count urinals (it's been awhile.)

Back aft? The official answer is none. :up:
Official answer huh? What's the unofficial answer... when you gotta go,... pee into the nearest equipment hole! :o [j/k]
:arrgh!: If it leads to the Waste Oil or some similar tank...

I never did this of course (I don't work back there.)

[SeaQueen]

:arrgh!: If it leads to the Waste Oil or some similar tank...

I never did this of course (I don't work back there.)

So there are the real nuke/conner divide is an issue of smell huh?

[Bellman]

'' Unlocking the key to the flatulence-free bean has been something of a holy grail for some time.''
Let us not forget the latest cutting edge research into this problem:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbtoday/F2767103?thread=1434169
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19980527/ai_n14158626
http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?id=67320-beans-flatulence

Further learned contributions can be sourced at 'Bilge' :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=85791&highlight=Bilges

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Here's a real life submarine question I've always wondered about...

How many toilets are there on an LA? :p
I'm thinking for 115 guys... one bad night for the cook and no matter how many there are its not going to be enough!:o :lol: :doh:

1 full service in the CO/XO head, 1 standup and 1 full service in the officer head, 1 full service in the goat locker, 1 standup and 3 full service in between forward and aft crews berthing, 1 full service in lower level across from 21 man berthing.

6 showers among the whole thing as well.

BUT, as someone stated, any old drain funnel will do in a pinch. ANY bubblehead who says they have not whipped it out and relieved themselves in a funnel is full of it.

Oh, and someone asked what if the cook screws up?? Well... In Lisbon, Portugal, a certain FT Toptorp and I know put 100 times too much chlorine in the potable water we received just before we left. It gave the WHOLE crew the screaming meanies if you know what I mean. It was the ONLY time I ever heard them say TAKE A HOLLYWOOD! to the whole crew. Leave it running. They had to flush both the potable water tanks. We ran the rain maker pretty much 24 hours for a few days lined up to the potable water tanks. A-gang was blowing the sans 2-3 times a watch. The whole crew did not become regular for 3 or 4 days. Offgoing watch was running from the head, releaving the on-watch so they could dash to the head, and then run back themselves. Normally, you could take care of biz and read a book or relax in the ONLY place you could truly be alone. Well, they had to put a watch in the heads (all were open to the crew except the CO/XO head which was reserved for control/upper level folks at the time) to ensure you got in, and got out... and to pass the paper when they ran out.

The FT in question was hiding pretty much the whole trip back to the states. The CO never did anything to him, he figured that it would pale compared to what the CREW was going to do to him.

[LoBlo]

heh heh. Good stuff. To be honest with you that's a lot more heads than I was expecting... I was thinking 1 toilet and 1 shower per deck... guess the lines would impinge on productivity.

Here's another question for ya... (its always the little things that amaze me btw)... how much food does it take to feed 120 guys at one setting?

I mean, whenever I think of catering for 100 people the amount of food is huge... and to think that the cook has to do that for 4 meals per day and store enough food to last 3 months. It just amazes me to think that that much food gets squeezed into such a small space. I'm thinking 130 cheese burgers would fill my entire frig... multiply that by 3 meals per day times 90 days = 32400 cheeseburgers!! It would take a semi-truck sized frig to store that it seems.

Is there just one huge store room where all the food it piled in?

[Henson]

Big storeroom, yeah. Well, kinda big. Small, actually.

The rest gets shoved into nooks and crannys of the engine room on the (flawed) theory that putting eggs outboard of a heat exchanger allows them to keep longer.

[timmyg00]

Not everyone eats at every sitting... a lot of the off-watch guys are sleeping. Probably 2/3 to 3/4 of the crew is eating at any given meal... but if any all-hands evolutions are taking place (field day, drills), more people are interested in eating... so then you get closer to the whole crew being in line for chow :huh:

TG

[Rip]

I can remember before going on some very long cruises actually walking on a layer of #10 cans which covered much of the decks in the forward compartment. It took us 3 or 4 weeks to eat down to the floor.

Managing what goes where and in what order was a very difficult and important task. Things needed to be in a certain order so as to not need to dig to the bottom of a storage area for the box you needed. Nothing would piss the supply officer off faster than having to go to the old man and tell him they couldn't find a needed ingredient for something on the menu. No one wants to be the supply officer on a nuclear sub. No respect from either direction and lots of grief from both.

[timmyg00]

I can remember before going on some very long cruises actually walking on a layer of #10 cans which covered much of the decks in the forward compartment. It took us 3 or 4 weeks to eat down to the floor.
Managing what goes where and in what order was a very difficult and important task. Things needed to be in a certain order so as to not need to dig to the bottom of a storage area for the box you needed. Nothing would piss the supply officer off faster than having to go to the old man and tell him they couldn't find a needed ingredient for something on the menu. No one wants to be the supply officer on a nuclear sub. No respect from either direction and lots of grief from both. Oh yeah, good old diamond-tread on top of the cans...

On 688(I) there's a berthing area for E-6 (Petty Officer First Class, a fairly senior NCO) in the forward compartment lower level. Presumably, it's supposed to be a benefit of attaining such seniority that E-6s get their own berthing area. Well let me tell you, it was only a benefit for the guys in the outboard racks. The inboard racks were subject to all the noise of people transiting lower level between the torpedo room and AMR, the people hanging out near the laundry shooting the sh!t, the people in the smoker's line (our official smoking area was AMR, max 2 smokers at a time, so it got busy right after chow), the line of guys waiting to use the lower level head, and last but most certainly not least, the mess cranks diving into the Aux Trim Tank to retrieve ingredients for the next meal. Most often, the ingredients were canned items, which the cranks gleefully plopped onto the deck right in front of the inboard racks in 21-man berthing. Seems the galley caused cranks to forget about sound silencing...

I had better racks as a non-qual and an E-5!!

Man, how did I miss all this stuff in my Almanac article!!

TG

[Captain Norman]

Im interested in knowing what kinds of foods u guys eat, whether u always bring hotsauce with u to improve it if it sucks :P, and whether or not anything they make is good.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Im interested in knowing what kinds of foods u guys eat, whether u always bring hotsauce with u to improve it if it sucks :P, and whether or not anything they make is good.

We ate well. Too well in fact. You could REALLY pack the weight on if you were not careful. All it took was a few barbs and you would start to watch what you ate. If that did not work, you HAD to do something when you could not get into your uniform. It was not like you could go down to the PX and buy new ones.

The food depended on who was reading the reciepe cards. If you had someone who did it all by the book, then things were bland but, as we used to say, 'It makes a turd'. If you had a cook who was not afriad to play with the reciepe you could have some REALLY outstanding food.

As for types of food?

Breakfast was mostly scrambled eggs, muffing, bacon sometimes, grits & grits, oatmeal, and sometimes pancakes.

Lunch and dinner? Well,I remember LOTS of corned beef, or, as we called it Babboon Ass. Fried Chicken, Hamburgers (sliders), shrimp, pasta and other pretty ordinary items. I remember pizza was every friday night. Beanie Weenies or coldcut sandwiches were common on the midrates.

You have things that you could freeze a LOT of, be high in nurient content, and be as compact as possible. If you could not find it frozen, it had to be availble in #10 cans. Frying was used a LOT. If the deep fat fryer was broke, the variety of meals drops WAY down.

If you want to be a RICH man, figure out how to can FRESH lettuce and other easily perishible items. When a bubblehead hits port, the first thing he grabs is NOT a beer, but a FRESH glass of milk and the largest FRESH salad you could lay your hands on. Then you wash it down with a beer.

[Captain Norman]

Interesting, that doesnt sound half bad lol
I guess its a good thing Im goin to culinary school then, ill open up shop outside a navy base :D

[sonar732]

It seemed that we ate Ravioli all the time on mid-rats. :rotfl::rotfl::damn::damn::doh::doh:

[Captain Norman]

Up forward there are 8-10 if you count urinals (it's been awhile.)

Back aft? The official answer is none. :up:

Official answer huh? What's the unofficial answer... when you gotta go,... pee into the nearest equipment hole! :o [j/k]
Lmao oddly enough, I can picture that happening. But hey, when u gotta go, you dont care where it is, as long as u can find a place.

[Rip]

Im interested in knowing what kinds of foods u guys eat, whether u always bring hotsauce with u to improve it if it sucks :P, and whether or not anything they make is good.

There were certain periods of time away from port that were key. A few weeks out no more fresh milk or lettuce etc. A few weeks late no more eggs. I for one couldn't stand powdered milk or eggs. Anything that was frozen or canned was good for the duration. Although with the limited size of the freezer, at the end of a long trip it was canned or nothing.

I think the 2 most popular meals other than Surf&Turf was Pizza or Sliders(Cheeseburgers). Pizza was usually scheduled for poker night, which IIRC was Saturday night.

[timmyg00]

Slider night (Thursdays) and pizza night (Saturdays) were very popular, as were the major holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving... the MSC didn't mess around. We had a full spread for those meals! As the oncoming watch after one of those meals, i was so stuffed with food as to be nearly useless...

I didn't mind the powdered eggs too much... it beat eating cereal with powdered milk!

One of the things that really brings me back is whenever I smell bread baking in an oven... I remember a lot of the smells from the boat... most of them ranging from unpleasant to horrendous... but the smell of rolls baking in the galley was something altogether different. It felt like home, and made us look forward to eating the rolls - if nothing else about the meal with which they were served :p I liked to smell the bacon being cooked for breakfast too.

TG

[sonar732]

Ahhh....White Death...good times, good times. :rotfl::rotfl::arrgh!::arrgh!:

[LoBlo]

Here's another question for RL submariners...

How does HotBunking work? Is it just a matter of two guys one bed, whoever gets there first gets to sleep?

Or is there something more to it? Just curious.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Here's another question for RL submariners...

How does HotBunking work? Is it just a matter of two guys one bed, whoever gets there first gets to sleep?

Or is there something more to it? Just curious.

Ok, here is an easy way to understand it.

1) Subs are on 18 hour days vs your normal 24 hour days. That is three 6 hours watchs in rotation that make up each 'day'.

2) 3 people share 2 racks. They are all on a different watch. That way ONE of the three is ALWAYS on watch and thus not needing a rack. The other two can thus sleep if they need to. You work out who gets what rack beforehand if you have to get picky. For the most part, unless you get a real retentive rackmate, you just grab the empty one.

3) Of the 2 rackpans, One guy each gets 2/3 of a pan and the 3rd guy gets the remain 1/3 of each rack for his stuff. In case you are wondering, it is not a lot fo space. About the equivelant of 1 medium sized dresser drawer and you have to make sure that nothing breakable is in it.

4) Called "hot racking" becuase when you get off watch, you can climb into a pre-warmed bed.

And there you go.

[LoBlo]

Ok, here is an easy way to understand it.

1) Subs are on 18 hour days vs your normal 24 hour days. That is three 6 hours watchs in rotation that make up each 'day'.

2) 3 people share 2 racks. They are all on a different watch. That way ONE of the three is ALWAYS on watch and thus not needing a rack. The other two can thus sleep if they need to. You work out who gets what rack beforehand if you have to get picky. For the most part, unless you get a real retentive rackmate, you just grab the empty one.

3) Of the 2 rackpans, One guy each gets 2/3 of a pan and the 3rd guy gets the remain 1/3 of each rack for his stuff. In case you are wondering, it is not a lot fo space. About the equivelant of 1 medium sized dresser drawer and you have to make sure that nothing breakable is in it.

4) Called "hot racking" becuase when you get off watch, you can climb into a pre-warmed bed.

And there you go.

Hm... that doesn't really sound that bad. Since a person on shift isn't using there rack its a waist not to put it to use... as long as the person in the rack before you doesn't smell like crap:o :doh: :dead: :lol:

[Molon Labe]

And as long as the patrol sock caught everything.

[ASWnut101]

Did you guys get Jell-O on your ships, also?



And how often can you shower/bathe?

[sonar732]

And as long as the patrol sock caught everything.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Darn...Bill doesn't have a 'barf' emotioncon.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Hm... that doesn't really sound that bad. Since a person on shift isn't using there rack its a waist not to put it to use... as long as the person in the rack before you doesn't smell like crap:o :doh: :dead: :lol:

As long as your fellow rackmates shower fairly regular and the bedding is washed weekly it is not too bad. Patrol socks are HIGHLY discouraged among hot rackers. You take matter in hand elsewhere..

Speaking of laundry. You have ONE day a week that you may do laundry. That is, your division is allotted one day a week. Thus only so many people can do laundry. Normally, we assign a laundry queen for that day who does all the laundry they can for everyone else on 'our' day. Once you get ahold of the ONE washer & drier on board, you do not want to let it go.

Remember that little rackpan I told you about? What if I told you I could fit 30 pairs or skivvies, 30 tee-shirts, 30 pairs of socks, 6 'poopie suits (one peice blue jumpers), 4 pairs of dungarees, toilety articles, a few books, music, some candies (hey, the creature comforts count!), shoes and a backpack all in there and still make it close. Why 30 pairs of undergarments you ask? Well, you will find that you can re-wear your outer stuff for days if you have to, but you want some clean underwear daily and you might miss your laundry day due to 'operational constraints' I.E drills, the desire to minimize the use of water, sound considerations ,etc etc etc. 30 pairs means you can go for about 3 weeks and do not laundry if you have to.

[Rip]

Did you guys get Jell-O on your ships, also?



And how often can you shower/bathe?
Sometimes, although I don't recall it being a poular item. For desert everyone likes it when the soft serve ice cream machine is up and loaded. Just grab a cone and eat away.

You could normally take a shower daily unless drills or other operational constraints caused reduced water usage to be ordered. Usually not for too long since the boys that work back aft make the water and they don't like getting all stinky. Unlike the machinists that work up front and make the air and remove the CO/CO2.

Showers should always be submarine showers however. Meaning you get wet, turn off the shower head and soap up. The turn the water back on rinse and get your ass out. 30 minutes standing under the spraying water is very much frowned upon. Again especially by the aft machinists that have to make it. Overdoing it is called taking a hollywood shower and is not something you want to be associated with unless you wear lots of gold.

:|\\

[Rip]

and a quick comment on hot racking. It is not unheard of (especially if you are a nub(very junior)) to have 2 guys sharing 1 bunk. But not to fear that usually means they will put you in port/starboard duty as well. Meaning you are 6 hours on and 6 hours off. I can remember at times when we were carrying riders having to share bunks that were just metal trays slid into torpedo storage racks in the bow, or even sleeping on an air mattress in the sonar equipment space. I like the sonar space better since you seldom got disturbed as the sonarman never clean the compensators like they are supposed to. The TMs on the other hand seem to need to move weapons around multiple times daily. Especially whe I was off watch:damn:

[wetwarev7]

Showers should always be submarine showers however. Meaning you get wet, turn off the shower head and soap up. The turn the water back on rinse and get your ass out. 30 minutes standing under the spraying water is very much frowned upon.
:|\\

Of all the ones I've read, this is the scariest - I can't function unless I can take a 30 minute shower in the morning! :lol:

I lept from my top rack head a spining wondering what the hell was amiss. I felt my feet hit cold water as they hit the floor. Still dark I heard at almost that same moment the collision alarm. FLOODING in the LAUNCHER!!! OMFG I am going to friggin DIE! My knees almost buckled, but I kept my composure.

Heh, I once woke up to the bedroom floor being flooded due to a water heater malfunction in my apartment. Had I been in a sub at the time, I'd probably of been reduced to a gibbering idiot...lol

These are great! Please keep sharing!

[LoBlo]

Here's another question (I have a billion of them... becuase I live vicariously thru other people :p ... and I'm researching for the sub novel that I will one day write when I'm old enough to retire:cool: )...

... since subs aren't deployed year-round... how much time off do sailors get between deployment?

For example, I've heard that USN SSBN have two entirely different crews... what does the 2nd crew do during six whole months of shore time?.... besides party? I'm thinking training of course, some paper shuffling problably... but other than that seems like there should be a lot of opprotunity to relax with the family and friend for the next 6 months. Am I right?

[ASWnut101]

here's one, how close did your ship ever come close to firing on another ship?

[Rip]

Here's another question (I have a billion of them... becuase I live vicariously thru other people :p ... and I'm researching for the sub novel that I will one day write when I'm old enough to retire:cool: )...

... since subs aren't deployed year-round... how much time off do sailors get between deployment?

For example, I've heard that USN SSBN have two entirely different crews... what does the 2nd crew do during six whole months of shore time?.... besides party? I'm thinking training of course, some paper shuffling problably... but other than that seems like there should be a lot of opprotunity to relax with the family and friend for the next 6 months. Am I right?
It would be nice if it were that easy. SSBNs do have 2 crews(Gold crew and Blue crew0, so only one is deployed at sea at any given time. That just means that the off crew works out of a building when off patrol. They are busy training, preparing for the turnover loadout/refit, and also taking some leave if they can. Just like everyone else you just get 30 days of leave a year. They are fortunate to get to work pretty much 8-5 M-F on offcrew time with little watchstanding. But far from an R&R time. Closer to being like shore duty.

SSNs on the otherhand have only one crew and still spend 50%+ of their time actually at sea. Difference is when they are in port 1/3rd of the crew min needs to be on board at any given time. That is a sufficient number to set sail if required and maintain a safe/secure watch on the boat 24X7. Essentually that means 3 section duty. So once every 3 days you don't go home. You would typically have to stand 6-8 hours of duty watch on your duty day. Of course none of this precluded you from working the other weekdays you didn't stand duty, often beyond the 8-5 workday. So you could actually expect to get a Saturday AND a sunday off about once a month in port. Assuming you were not in some kind of workup or god forbid DINQ!:88)

Not sure we have discussed quals much, but that is where the word Dinq is derived from. A derogatory shortening of delinquent. Meaning off the required pace for qualifications, earning your dolphins. Esentually anyone newly assigned to a sub must obtain a qualified in submarines status within 1 year. This can be extended slightly with the Captains permission, but that pretty much means you are a perm. DINQ and will probably still get some flak from the boys even after getting qualified.

A great breakdown can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Warfare_Insignia

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Here's another question (I have a billion of them... becuase I live vicariously thru other people :p ... and I'm researching for the sub novel that I will one day write when I'm old enough to retire:cool: )...

... since subs aren't deployed year-round... how much time off do sailors get between deployment?

For example, I've heard that USN SSBN have two entirely different crews... what does the 2nd crew do during six whole months of shore time?.... besides party? I'm thinking training of course, some paper shuffling problably... but other than that seems like there should be a lot of opprotunity to relax with the family and friend for the next 6 months. Am I right?

I was on a fast boat and we had a saying....

One Boat, One Crew, One Shaft and One Screw

We had the boat 24/7/365 and if you were not deployed you were working up to deploy, working up for a cert (TRE,ORSE, Etc etc). In port my boat was on 3 shift duty days. Meaning every 3rd day you were on the boat 24 hours. When you did not have duty you mustered at 7am and left when the job was done. We did not have things like 'day after duty' when you left as soon as you were relieved. So as you can see, it was not uncommon to have a 110 hour work week.

When you were on duty you had to stand watches and handle the normal day to day things. Sometimes you could have the non-duty people help you but they did not have to if they had other jobs they had to do. Once they left for the day the duty section had the whole show.

By doing the 3 day watch rotation, they always had enough crew on-board to get the boat underway in an emergency. It would not be fun, but you could do it (I did it once and it sucked.. NO watch relief!)

[Bubblehead Nuke]

here's one, how close did your ship ever come close to firing on another ship?

Oh the stories some of us could tell you.......

But we ain't called the silent service for nothing...

[timmyg00]

I can only echo what BN and Rip have said, except that on my boat, most of the time, coners had 4-section duty unless we were in drydock or some other special in-port period. That's because the duty sections had to supply fire and saftey watches for the shipyard-type work that was going on. Nukes more often than not had 3-section duty.

Additionally, while we did have "day-after-duty" (go home early after your duty day), it was totally up to your LCPO as to whether you got to enjoy it or not... if you had work to do, you weren't going anywhere... nobody else was going to do it for you!

TG

[ASWnut101]

here's one, how close did your ship ever come close to firing on another ship?

Oh the stories some of us could tell you.......

But we ain't called the silent service for nothing...


Ahh, that sucks:cry:. Thakns anyway.:)

[Snowman999]

For example, I've heard that USN SSBN have two entirely different crews...


Boomers have THREE crews: the Gold, the Blue, and the Other. The Other crew breaks everything . . .



what does the 2nd crew do during six whole months of shore time?


Patrol cycles are about 105 days, so it's three months, not six. As others have said it's moslty training, schools, paperwork, and PT, but I found enough time to take $10 USAF space-A flights to Europe.

[sonar732]

I can only echo what BN and Rip have said, except that on my boat, most of the time, coners had 4-section duty unless we were in drydock or some other special in-port period. That's because the duty sections had to supply fire and saftey watches for the shipyard-type work that was going on. Nukes more often than not had 3-section duty.

TG
Nothing like sitting fire watch during the mid-watch trying to stay awake holding a fire extinguisher. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::damn::damn::damn::dam n:

[OptimusX]

Sorry for straying OT...but I've been gone a long time myself...but holy crap, heya TG! Been lurking for like a year now...finally decided to post when i saw a familiar face from the old matchup days.

[Molon Labe]

Why lurk when we've finally got a decent setup now? DW's back!

Good to see you around again.:D

[LoBlo]

Good stuff, good stuff. Okiedokie. Next Question for the RLB (Real-Life-Bubbleheads)

When your on patrol... do you get to updates on non-military world news? Like the sorta stuff that would show up on ABC or CNN, but isn't directly related to military happenings.

Say for instance... the contaminated lettuce stories that was so big a few months ago, or who won the Oscars or Britney Spears having a baby or the latest UN resolution etc. If so, is it from a network news broadcast like ABC, NBC, CNN? I'm just wondering how uptodate submarines are on what's happening in the outside world whenever they are away from it all.

[Rip]

Good stuff, good stuff. Okiedokie. Next Question for the RLB (Real-Life-Bubbleheads)

When your on patrol... do you get to updates on non-military world news? Like the sorta stuff that would show up on ABC or CNN, but isn't directly related to military happenings.

Say for instance... the contaminated lettuce stories that was so big a few months ago, or who won the Oscars or Britney Spears having a baby or the latest UN resolution etc. If so, is it from a network news broadcast like ABC, NBC, CNN? I'm just wondering how uptodate submarines are on what's happening in the outside world whenever they are away from it all.
Hopefully things have improved in this regard. In my day (mid 80s) we copied wire news off the satellite if we happened to be up and operations allowed it. Often we would only get some of it as operational tasks often interferred, and like family grams they were of little priority. It was nice working in the radio room on long patrols though and getting alook at the scores and news first as it was printing out. We would also use the gear to listen in on radio broadcasts on some of the EW gear if we happened to be somewhere we could pick something up that was in a language you could understand.

Another good time for this type stuff is if you did some type of personel or equip transfer. Often they would come lugging mail/newspapers.

[timmyg00]

Sorry for straying OT...but I've been gone a long time myself...but holy crap, heya TG! Been lurking for like a year now...finally decided to post when i saw a familiar face from the old matchup days.
Good to see you again Op...

I can only echo what BN and Rip have said, except that on my boat, most of the time, coners had 4-section duty unless we were in drydock or some other special in-port period. That's because the duty sections had to supply fire and saftey watches for the shipyard-type work that was going on. Nukes more often than not had 3-section duty.
Nothing like sitting fire watch during the mid-watch trying to stay awake holding a fire extinguisher. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::damn::damn::damn::dam n:
That did suck...

TG

[XabbaRus]

what were punishments for screwing up while at sea? I don't mean dropping the ball during an exercises where you didn't hear the OPFOR sub but for something like putting a piece of kit in the wrong place or something like that.

[ASWnut101]

They lock you inside a torpedo tube for three hours.:lol:

[Rip]

what were punishments for screwing up while at sea? I don't mean dropping the ball during an exercises where you didn't hear the OPFOR sub but for something like putting a piece of kit in the wrong place or something like that.

Being restricted to the boat is often an effective punishment. Always serveed during port time. Nothing worse than having to spend 30 extra days onboard after returning from a 90+ day deployment. Well maybe having to crank twice but that is usually viewed as cruel and unusual punishment.:rock:

[Bubblehead Nuke]

what were punishments for screwing up while at sea? I don't mean dropping the ball during an exercises where you didn't hear the OPFOR sub but for something like putting a piece of kit in the wrong place or something like that.

Being restricted to the boat is often an effective punishment. Always serveed during port time. Nothing worse than having to spend 30 extra days onboard after returning from a 90+ day deployment. Well maybe having to crank twice but that is usually viewed as cruel and unusual punishment.:rock:

I cranked not once, not twice, but THREE times.

1st time - I was the first nuke on the boat to crank. We did not have any new coners to crank so I was picked. EDEA and COB about had a WAR over it. C.O stepped in and made the final call. New C.O. as well and he wanted to re-enforce the 'one boat, one crew, one shaft, one screw' policy

2nd time - never dink again... never dink again... never dink again... 'nuff said

3rd time - one of 3 nukes foreward cranking for a TRE exam. We were the initial casuality response team. Senior TRE member was seen calling the CO a sneaky S.O.B when we found out that he had 3 sub qual'd nukes working the mess decks.

[sonar732]

I was lucky enough that our sonar division was very short and even grabbed a few other division personel to obtain their BSO designations. So, with that being said, I didn't have to crank at all during first patrol...helped that we were heavy in non-division personell too...seaman apprentices and the like.

[XabbaRus]

What is to crank?

I'm lost with that one.

Seriously, you ever lock anyone or hear of anyone being locked in a torp tube?

[Rip]

What is to crank?

I'm lost with that one.

Seriously, you ever lock anyone or hear of anyone being locked in a torp tube?

Basically a slave to the cooks. All new enlisted personnel arriving to the boat who are not qualified in submarines are eligible to be assigned to what is offically call mess cook duty. Most boats only force nuclear qulified personnel to do this if there are no remaing front ender non-quals left.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

I will say, when I was cranking that second time, I had all the people I needed to sign off for me cornered. They could not hide, could not say that they did not have the time. I was the night crank and they came out to watch the movies... and I had them. It was like moths to a flame. And if they didn't want to talk to me then "No popcorn for them!"

About 2 weeks into it I had all my sigs and they would not give me a board. I cornered an LT and asked when he would hold my qual board. He decided to give me a board, on the mess desk, during movie time right NOW. In fact, he turned OFF the movie and announced that he was holding a sub qual board right then and there and he needed some people for the board.

That was a rough board as just about EVERYONE who was off watch took turns tormenting me. They were not amused by the interruption of the movie. It was a bloodbath.

The board lasted THROUGH the midwatch till breakfast.

I am proud to say that my qual sheet has almost EVERYONE who was sub qual'ed sign off on it. They ALL sat my board. It was a 'beat up a nuke night'. From the XO on down, someone had a question. Heck, half the time it was get this, show me that, the whole board roved the boat looking for things to beat me up on.

I still have that qual signoff sheet. 19 years after the fact. When I wonder if I can accomplish something I pull it out and look at it. It is still one of the proudest moments of my life. I can close my eyes and 'walk' the boat in my mind, remembering all the strangest details.

Sometimes I wonder why I got out....

[timmyg00]

I will say, when I was cranking that second time, I had all the people I needed to sign off for me cornered. They could not hide, could not say that they did not have the time. I was the night crank and they came out to watch the movies... and I had them. It was like moths to a flame. And if they didn't want to talk to me then "No popcorn for them!"

About 2 weeks into it I had all my sigs and they would not give me a board. I cornered an LT and asked when he would hold my qual board. He decided to give me a board, on the mess desk, during movie time right NOW. In fact, he turned OFF the movie and announced that he was holding a sub qual board right then and there and he needed some people for the board.

That was a rough board as just about EVERYONE who was off watch took turns tormenting me. They were not amused by the interruption of the movie. It was a bloodbath.

The board lasted THROUGH the midwatch till breakfast.

I am proud to say that my qual sheet has almost EVERYONE who was sub qual'ed sign off on it. They ALL sat my board. It was a 'beat up a nuke night'. From the XO on down, someone had a question. Heck, half the time it was get this, show me that, the whole board roved the boat looking for things to beat me up on.

I still have that qual signoff sheet. 19 years after the fact. When I wonder if I can accomplish something I pull it out and look at it. It is still one of the proudest moments of my life. I can close my eyes and 'walk' the boat in my mind, remembering all the strangest details.

Sometimes I wonder why I got out.... AWESOME story... I don't know too many people who wouldn't have failed that board! How many lookups did you have?

TG

[Rip]

Big mistake. You must have known your S**T when they were done. I liked the other approach. I used to take coffee to the late night watches, check to make sure peoples relief were up, and assist people doing PMs and such. Anything for some enlightenment and a sig.:yep:

I hear what you say about stuff you can't forget. If anyone every asks me where the main steam shutoff valves are, or the power panel that supplies juice to the O2 generator, or how the CO2 scrubbers work, or ask me to properly put on an OBA I'm covered. I think to this day you could put me next to the shaft seals with an EAB with the faceplate blocked and I could still make it to the torpedo room. Probably not as fast as I once did, but I'd make it.:rock:


Just thought of another (somewhat embarrassing) story you guys will enjoy.

Sometime around 83 or 84 I was standing topside watch around 2 AM at the pier in Norfolk. I remember it was cold as I was wearing an exposure suit. We had just returned from some type of cert deployment becasue I remember I was dog tired, had worked the radar forever on manuevering watch coming in, got stuck with duty first day in.

The evening watch before me had left a ****load of cups he said he would take down with him. I went to take draft readings came back, and they were still there. I got on watch around 2300 and had been trying to get the belowdecks watch to bring me up a coffe. He was busy and hadn't made it. SO anyway here comes the duty officer to make a tour. The navigator, who was my dept head was on duty. Great! He is obviosly tired and not in good spirits. Looks about checks, my log, then begins eating my ass about getting rid of the coffee cups. I am by the forward escape trunk and he walks forward past the sail. I though to go below decks.

SO here I am tired and pretty aggravated myself. I mean WTF does he expect me to do with them? Eat them? I mean I been trying to get the BD watch to come up since I got on watch. So in a moment of disgust and irrational thought I picked up the stack and chucked it right over the side. Of course at that very moment the duty officer was rounding the sail on the way back. He turned 3 shades of purple and yelled at me for a good 10 minutes. I ended up with a reprimand but lucked I didn't get Captains Mast.:oops:

They actually have to have the divers dive the piers in Norfolk every year just to pick up cups. SO I guess I wasn't the only lazy piece of crap standing topside watch.

[timmyg00]

You didn't amuse yourself by bouncing them off the hull tiles? :lol:

TG

[sonar732]

That was a great story about the cups as it brought back memories for me.

It was the first time I'd ever seen the northwest early March and was beautiful for at least 2 weeks. We started to take off the non-skid topside, plastic everywhere doubletaped on the edge to make sure that one flake of this material didn't fall into the drink. Oh, the joys of deck division. Our COB came up to inspect the job we were doing and turned to look at me...now, Renken....make sure you don't get one *******king flake of that sh*t overboard or the environmental freaks will have a hay day and fine the Captain. A few days later, when we were applying the first coat and it started to rain. Now I realized why we hated the northwest as we tried everything to dry our paint job. The rain finally stopped and we rushed to finish the job just to go on deployment within our timeframe.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

AWESOME story... I don't know too many people who wouldn't have failed that board! How many lookups did you have?

TG

let me pull it out.... four lookups on it.

1) CKT EH (signal circuit to close the snorkel induction mast isolation valve when it gets wet if I remember correctly)

2) modes of a MK-48 torpedo (pertaining to the active & passive modes, presets etc).

3) Power supply to to the radar (doh... )

4) emergency shutdown conditions and recovery operations of the LP blower.

I got a written note of 'impressive!' on it... I forgot who wrote it. I remember being told I should have been qual's sooner, I knew too dang much.

[Rip]

AWESOME story... I don't know too many people who wouldn't have failed that board! How many lookups did you have?

TG
let me pull it out.... four lookups on it.

1) CKT EH (signal circuit to close the snorkel induction mast isolation valve when it gets wet if I remember correctly)

2) modes of a MK-48 torpedo (pertaining to the active & passive modes, presets etc).

3) Power supply to to the radar (doh... )

4) emergency shutdown conditions and recovery operations of the LP blower.

I got a written note of 'impressive!' on it... I forgot who wrote it. I remember being told I should have been qual's sooner, I knew too dang much.

The radar panel is P-15 IIRC.;)

[timmyg00]

AWESOME story... I don't know too many people who wouldn't have failed that board! How many lookups did you have?

TG
let me pull it out.... four lookups on it.

1) CKT EH (signal circuit to close the snorkel induction mast isolation valve when it gets wet if I remember correctly)

2) modes of a MK-48 torpedo (pertaining to the active & passive modes, presets etc).

3) Power supply to to the radar (doh... )

4) emergency shutdown conditions and recovery operations of the LP blower.

I got a written note of 'impressive!' on it... I forgot who wrote it. I remember being told I should have been qual's sooner, I knew too dang much.

The radar panel is P-15 IIRC.;) That sounds familiar... but you guys seem to have retained much more than i did. Wouldn't take me long to re-qual, though, I bet :ping:

[Bubblehead Nuke]

That sounds familiar... but you guys seem to have retained much more than i did. Wouldn't take me long to re-qual, though, I bet :ping:

When you got your butt reamed over it... you tended to remember it.

[LoBlo]

Okiedokie then. Here's a question a of opinion to the RLBHs:

Which person had the "easiest" job on the boat... meaning who has the least things to juggle up in the air at the same time? Was there any position that was obviously the easiest? I'm thinking that the cook probably has one of the hardest working, but also simplest jobs to keep 100+ fed. Also, the radar operators would probably have one of the simplest jobs since (from what I read and understand) seems like once a ship leaves port it will probably not use its radar but very very rarely until it gets back.

Am I right?

ps) pardon the necro.

[Rip]

Okiedokie then. Here's a question a of opinion to the RLBHs:

Which person had the "easiest" job on the boat... meaning who has the least things to juggle up in the air at the same time? Was there any position that was obviously the easiest? I'm thinking that the cook probably has one of the hardest working, but also simplest jobs to keep 100+ fed. Also, the radar operators would probably have one of the simplest jobs since (from what I read and understand) seems like once a ship leaves port it will probably not use its radar but very very rarely until it gets back.

Am I right?

ps) pardon the necro.

Well the radar operator is one of the forward ETs and would stand either navigation watch or ESM watch when not on the surface. I would suggest the ESM watch could be considered one of the easiest, especially if like it was for me many patrols it is one guy who is on call. Basically while in transit we would just go to PD two or three times a day. Of course if at any point we had to stay at PD for extended periods that could backfire on you. Typically if we were on a mission where we would be at PD a lot then we would have at least 2 ESM operators on the watchbill. But on a 688 huge amounts of PD time are the exception not the rule.

As far as perception the sonar and radioroom(including ESM) watchstanders usually get the flack for being the biggest "NO LOADS":cool:

[sonar732]

As far as perception the sonar and radioroom(including ESM) watchstanders usually get the flack for being the biggest "NO LOADS":cool:

Those are fighting words!:arrgh!::arrgh!:

The sad part is most of the accidents that happen start in sonar.

:doh::doh:

[Bubblehead Nuke]

As far as perception the sonar and radioroom(including ESM) watchstanders usually get the flack for being the biggest "NO LOADS":cool:

Ahh.. Sonar. They work so hard in that cold air conditioned space. Those on my boat had a habit/history or taking a shower before and AFTER their watches. These guys were regular water buffalos.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Favourite line to call a new guy when they are behind on quals....

'Rack stealing, food eating, air breathing, san filling, load on my air conditioning system...'

Ahh the abuse you could deliver...

[LoBlo]

More questions for the RL submariners! :D

Question #1: On each of the various classes (SW, Los Angeles, etc), how many of the crew had to hot-bunk? And how was it decided who had to hot bunk and who got their own bunk?

Question #2: Was hot-bunking all that bad? Did people mind?

Qeustion #3: What about when special forces were aboard? On a long transit (1 + week), were those guys just sitting in their racks all day? Did they get duties (cleaning, cooking, etc)? Did they have to hotbunk too or did they get special treatment?

by the way, sorry to resurect this thread, but I always thought this thread was fasinating. I love hearing the RL skinny from those folks that have "been there and done that". Other than the fine folks on this forum, I've only met 1 other person that had been on a submarine during deployment. Hope no one minds.

[Rip]

hot-bunking varied based on whether there were riders or extra bodies on board. like midshipman, which is another reason they were usually given somewhat of a hard time. The first candidates are usually non-quals and non-rated and is often a source of some discourse when a non-rated qualified person or a rated non-qual have to be hot racked and the other not. My belief is the qualified person prevails and that is (IMHO) the usual decision. I have seen it go the other way and it caused great discourse. It usually isn't all that bad if you are rotating with someone of similar hygene and rating.

I have seen much animosity when you have let's say a sissy boy two shower a day no-load sonarman, hot racking with a greasy, non-showering, knuckledraggin ape of an a-ganger. But you know what they say. "A bitchin sailor is a happy sailor!" :ping:

[Neptunus Rex]

I have seen much animosity when you have let's say a sissy boy two shower a day no-load sonarman, hot racking with a greasy, non-showering, knuckledraggin ape of an a-ganger. But you know what they say. "A bitchin sailor is a happy sailor!" :ping:

Oh, and don't forget about the ESM ET's! If your not at PD, they have NOTHING to do!:up:

I once went into ESM when not at PD (when at PD ESM was off-limits to all but a few) and these guys were all wearing Hawai'ian shirts, paper hats and throwing paper airplanes all over the place.

[LoBlo]

That's interesting to know. Thanks. Had any experience about special forces and how they kept busy when onboard? Just curious.:hmm:

[LoBlo]

Here's another question:

What did submariners on the fast attack boats do to keep in shape? Or was it not possible at all? I heard that some boomers run around the missile silo, but on a fast attack that's not possible? Was there any excercise equipment? Chin up bars?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

We made barbells out of barstock and TDU weights. We wrapped them in foam and electrical tape so that if they got dropped they would not clank.

In the engineroom, we had designated pull up bars on various pipes. They had signage posted so you knew it was a safe place to workout without getting burned or electricuted, or create a soundshort. You could do a pushup just about anywhere you wanted to as long as it was not in a passageway. If you could hook your toes you did sit-ups where you could.

The one thing you could not do was run. Instead we had an excercise bike stashed in the mezzenine over the shaft in shaft alley. We also had a stairmaster port side aft of the main electric switchboards. It blocked a ladder access, but you could work around that.

You got creative in working out. You just adapted and figured out a way to do it.

[Frame57]

Here's another question:

What did submariners on the fast attack boats do to keep in shape? Or was it not possible at all? I heard that some boomers run around the missile silo, but on a fast attack that's not possible? Was there any excercise equipment? Chin up bars?On the 637 class we used to do push ups using the port and starboard torpedo racks. the center isle was spaced between those by about 3.5 feet. Depending on our weapons loadout we would strap extra aluminum racks here also, usually when we had "spooks" on board (yes, I said spooks...) Junior NFG's usually got these racks.

[Frame57]

I will say, when I was cranking that second time, I had all the people I needed to sign off for me cornered. They could not hide, could not say that they did not have the time. I was the night crank and they came out to watch the movies... and I had them. It was like moths to a flame. And if they didn't want to talk to me then "No popcorn for them!"

About 2 weeks into it I had all my sigs and they would not give me a board. I cornered an LT and asked when he would hold my qual board. He decided to give me a board, on the mess desk, during movie time right NOW. In fact, he turned OFF the movie and announced that he was holding a sub qual board right then and there and he needed some people for the board.

That was a rough board as just about EVERYONE who was off watch took turns tormenting me. They were not amused by the interruption of the movie. It was a bloodbath.

The board lasted THROUGH the midwatch till breakfast.

I am proud to say that my qual sheet has almost EVERYONE who was sub qual'ed sign off on it. They ALL sat my board. It was a 'beat up a nuke night'. From the XO on down, someone had a question. Heck, half the time it was get this, show me that, the whole board roved the boat looking for things to beat me up on.

I still have that qual signoff sheet. 19 years after the fact. When I wonder if I can accomplish something I pull it out and look at it. It is still one of the proudest moments of my life. I can close my eyes and 'walk' the boat in my mind, remembering all the strangest details.

Sometimes I wonder why I got out....The nukes on both the Archerfish and the R.B. Russell never had to to crank. In my mind that worked for me because I will be quite frank here. The nukes bust their butts in many different qual aspects than the coners did. Next to the nukes only the A-div worked as hard. I remember the one question that we like to ask on a qual board was..."You are a molecule of sea water, now explain how you become carbon monoxide once inside the boat...?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

"You are a molecule of sea water, now explain how you become carbon monoxide once inside the boat...?

We would ask "You are a molecule of H20, explain how you get into the boat and out again."

This was also an intelligence and motivation test. We did not ask for any specifics. As you know, there are MANY ways to get on and off the boat as a molecule of water. We wanted to see if this prospective submariner would take the easy way or the hard way. Would he choose something related to his divisional duties/resposibility? Or would he cop out and use something real easy. Would they be creative and give you something diffrerent? (<= more on this in a later post maybe)

You could tell what kind of shipmate you had by this ONE question and see how he considered his answer.

[LoBlo]

Good stuff, good stuff. Okiedokie, here's another a couple more...

1)If you had to bring just *one* luxary item (besides pictures of family) onboard the submarine what would it have been? A picture of the sky? Extra sweets? A favorite video game?

2) Hypothetically, say you could change the design of the boat to include *one more creature comfort* for the submariners onboard without impacting the function of the boat. What would it have been? The inclusion of a exercise gym (about the size of the torpedo room)? A hot tub like the Typhoons supposedly have? A rack for every submariner so no one had to hot bunk? What would it be?

You are a molecule of sea water, now explain how you become carbon monoxide once inside the boat...?

? How can a molecule made of hydrogen and oxygen become a molecule containing carbon? There's no carbon in H20.... I think I would have failed. :doh: :dead:

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Good stuff, good stuff. Okiedokie, here's another a couple more...

1)If you had to bring just *one* luxary item (besides pictures of family) onboard the submarine what would it have been? A picture of the sky? Extra sweets? A favorite video game?

2 pounds of gummy bears. It was so nice to have something sweet and fruity to bring a smile to my face. Also, these were not your 5 pounds for $4.99 kind. No sir, these were the $10+ a pound ones. The GOOD ones you had to go to a sweet shop for.

Later, when I had a key to the supply lockers (the chop trusted me), I cleared a supply locker that was accessable via my rack (yes, the door was in my RACK!) and lined it with foam and stored 6 CASES of various soda's in it. There was NOTHING like sitting at a movie on the backwatch eating my ration of gummy bears and pop the top on a soda. Granted, I only did this AFTER the soda machine ran out of sryup or invariably broke.

2) Hypothetically, say you could change the design of the boat to include *one more creature comfort* for the submariners onboard without impacting the function of the boat. What would it have been? The inclusion of a exercise gym (about the size of the torpedo room)? A hot tub like the Typhoons supposedly have? A rack for every submariner so no one had to hot bunk? What would it be?

A room, not very large, were you had a COMFORTABLE chair, non-florecent lighting and soundproof. Someplace where, for maybe 15 minutes, you can not hear the incessant hum of a fan, people chatting. Maybe put in a scent of growing grass, maybe a sea scent. Someplace were you could be alone and AWAY from the boat, even for a few minutes

You are a molecule of sea water, now explain how you become carbon monoxide once inside the boat...?

? How can a molecule made of hydrogen and oxygen become a molecule containing carbon? There's no carbon in H20.... I think I would have failed. :doh: :dead:

Short version:

You come in via the aux seawater system bonded with two of you buddies know as hydrogen. You then go to a device that ensure that nothing but you and your twins get through; the rest goes back overboard. You then go to the O2 generator and get divorced from your H2 partners and then you are then stored in a large bottle for a while till they let you out. Then you float through the air till you are inhaled by a carbon based life form. You then are used to facilitate the conversion of matter to energy in said carbon based life form after which you are exhaled with the byproduct known as carbon you have now become bonded to.

And there you go, that is how a oxygen molecule becomes carbon dioxide.

[Neptunus Rex]

Frame57
The nukes on both the Archerfish and the R.B. Russell never had to to crank. In my mind that worked for me because I will be quite frank here. The nukes bust their butts in many different qual aspects than the coners did. Next to the nukes only the A-div worked as hard. I remember the one question that we like to ask on a qual board was..."You are a molecule of sea water, now explain how you become carbon monoxide once inside the boat...?

No one on the boats I served was spared. I cranked for only about 3 weeks :lol: , then overhaul started and the galley and mess deck were ripped out.

[LoBlo]

You come in via the aux seawater system bonded with two of you buddies know as hydrogen. You then go to a device that ensure that nothing but you and your twins get through; the rest goes back overboard. You then go to the O2 generator and get divorced from your H2 partners and then you are then stored in a large bottle for a while till they let you out. Then you float through the air till you are inhaled by a carbon based life form. You then are used to facilitate the conversion of matter to energy in said carbon based life form after which you are exhaled with the byproduct known as carbon you have now become bonded to.

And there you go, that is how a oxygen molecule becomes carbon dioxide.

Aye. But the question wasn't how do a oxygen atom become part of a carbon monoxide molecule. It was how does a H2O molecule become a carbon monoxide molecule. Now if you assume that the question was pertaining not to the molecule as a whole, but the invidual atoms of the molecule, then yep, the question is doable. But if you assume that the "molecule" itself, must be perserved, then its a non sequitur.:p

[Rip]

I have seen much animosity when you have let's say a sissy boy two shower a day no-load sonarman, hot racking with a greasy, non-showering, knuckledraggin ape of an a-ganger. But you know what they say. "A bitchin sailor is a happy sailor!" :ping:
Oh, and don't forget about the ESM ET's! If your not at PD, they have NOTHING to do!:up:

I once went into ESM when not at PD (when at PD ESM was off-limits to all but a few) and these guys were all wearing Hawai'ian shirts, paper hats and throwing paper airplanes all over the place.

Indeed. I loved being the only ESM ET and being on call when on missions where we transited a lot and seldom went to PD. They couldn't make you hot-bunk, and you could make it to EVERY meal. Never got so much sleep and watched so many movies. That was the life! :rock:

[Rip]

You come in via the aux seawater system bonded with two of you buddies know as hydrogen. You then go to a device that ensure that nothing but you and your twins get through; the rest goes back overboard. You then go to the O2 generator and get divorced from your H2 partners and then you are then stored in a large bottle for a while till they let you out. Then you float through the air till you are inhaled by a carbon based life form. You then are used to facilitate the conversion of matter to energy in said carbon based life form after which you are exhaled with the byproduct known as carbon you have now become bonded to.

And there you go, that is how a oxygen molecule becomes carbon dioxide.
Aye. But the question wasn't how do a oxygen atom become part of a carbon monoxide molecule. It was how does a H2O molecule become a carbon monoxide molecule. Now if you assume that the question was pertaining not to the molecule as a whole, but the invidual atoms of the molecule, then yep, the question is doable. But if you assume that the "molecule" itself, must be perserved, then its a non sequitur.:p

Son are you trying to be a smart ass with this qual board? I think I am going to have to rip up your qualification card and let you start all over? I am sure when you return we can expect you to have a little more respect for you superiors!

:rotfl:

[Rip]

Frame57
The nukes on both the Archerfish and the R.B. Russell never had to to crank. In my mind that worked for me because I will be quite frank here. The nukes bust their butts in many different qual aspects than the coners did. Next to the nukes only the A-div worked as hard. I remember the one question that we like to ask on a qual board was..."You are a molecule of sea water, now explain how you become carbon monoxide once inside the boat...?
No one on the boats I served was spared. I cranked for only about 3 weeks :lol: , then overhaul started and the galley and mess deck were ripped out.

We actually had one nuke who not only cranked but later volunteered to crank a second time when we hit the point that all non-quals had cranked already. He was a little strange and seemed to be an outcast in the backend. He earned a lot of respect from the junior personnel up front though. I recall many of us lending him a hand cleaning up the mess decks and shooting trash out the TDU and such.

I never realized how fondly I would look back on some of those very difficult times.

I remember on TM chief that loved to ask, ok so everything is made of atoms and they are spaced relatively far away from each other. So why can't I put my hand through this table? He would also make you go into detail explaining the difference between Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Neutron radiation and identify appropriate shielding/containment of each. It is suprising how much I learned about such things without really having to use much of it in doing my rated work. Of course when you get down to damage control and weapons security guard stuff it really is good they make sure you know so much. I always felt a comfort level with such things that I don't think skimmer squids get.

[Frame57]

Yep RIP, I agree that being a submariner was a different animal. I had a short tour of neutral duty on the Simon Lake and had to work in the R-9 (repair shop). It was downright scary working with those guys. They did not know much of anything and were doing major repairs on mostly boomers. Some of them did not know the difference between a pipe wrench and crescent wrench. When I reported back to my boat I think i kissed the HY-80 and vowed i would never set foot on a tin can again after the experience I had with the AS-33. I am eternally grateful for having been a bubblehead. I would not be where i am today had i not taken that route in my life. In fact many years later I am going to look up the recruiter providing he is still amongst the living and buy him the best steak dinner. He told me if i went into sub duty that I would make rate quicker, that I would get the best schools and pay the Navy could offer. He did not lie...oh and the chow was incredible...

[LoBlo]

Son are you trying to be a smart ass with this qual board? I think I am going to have to rip up your qualification card and let you start all over? I am sure when you return we can expect you to have a little more respect for you superiors!


:oops: No disrespect intended.

[Rip]

Son are you trying to be a smart ass with this qual board? I think I am going to have to rip up your qualification card and let you start all over? I am sure when you return we can expect you to have a little more respect for you superiors!

:oops: No disrespect intended.

Now I am sure you would have made a good bubblehead.

One of my favorite qualification endeavors was "the walk around". There were a number of types of qualifications that included a walk around, and they could be some of the most challenging things to get past. Essentially you would stroll around the boat with whoever was supposed to "sign off" on you and they (as well as anyone in the are when they passed) would drill you. What is this? Where can I find this? How do I secure the power/water/etc to this? If the insert alarm went off right now, what would you do? Where are you supposed to go? What would be happening right here where we are standing? You get the idea. Can be close to torture and some of them went on for legendary lengths. I had one that almost went for a whole watch. Of course the guy was on watch so he wasn't in any hurry.:doh:

[LoBlo]

By the way. Much appreciation for all the responses. The way it "really was/is" is so fascinating to all us civillian sub enthusist.

Here's a random question:

Have any of you RL submariner (Rip, BH, Frame, Rex, Henson, SubGuru, and all others) ever considered writing a fiction novel? Something drawing on your naval experience to produce a naval warfare or sub novel. The book market is sore in need of good modern sub fiction. Its hard to find good reads. *hint, hint*:know:

[Rip]

I for one would love to write such a thing. I'm just not that good of a writer. I have the imagination just not the literary skills. It would be cool to work on a joint project with a bunch of like minded individuals. The hard part would be finding the person with ability to put the story into an enjoyable book format I imagine.

[Dr.Sid]

Just keep posting, and soon somebody will get inspired enough.

Except it's going to be comedy, 'Down periscope' style :rotfl:

[bottomcrawler]

New here, but I have a few questions for you RL submariners.

1. While out to sea but surfaced, is the "main deck" (the upper surface of the hull) off limits, or can you climb down and walk about in reasonably calm weather (assuming you're wearing some kind of safety harness)?

2. I take it that various marine life forms collide with, and live on, the outer hull. Does the hull smell because of this? Knowing how the "wet" part of my parents' boat smelled when we hauled it back onto land at the end of the season, I can only imagine how bad a huge submarine hull would smell, but does it really?

3. Ummm, I had a third one, but it got lost somewhere in my brain...

[Bubblehead Nuke]

New here, but I have a few questions for you RL submariners.

1. While out to sea but surfaced, is the "main deck" (the upper surface of the hull) off limits, or can you climb down and walk about in reasonably calm weather (assuming you're wearing some kind of safety harness)?


When you leave the dock and bring the linehandlers down, you rig the escape trunks for dive. From that point on you can not break the 'rig for dive' without the OOD's expressed permission. If you DO break rig for dive, it had BETTER be for a dang good reason as it takes two people to sign off on it..



2. I take it that various marine life forms collide with, and live on, the outer hull. Does the hull smell because of this? Knowing how the "wet" part of my parents' boat smelled when we hauled it back onto land at the end of the season, I can only imagine how bad a huge submarine hull would smell, but does it really?



Actually, i does not smell that bad at all. The deep ocean does not have a 'smell'. When you are at sea, that 'sea smell' is refered to as the smell of LAND. Thats right, while at sea, you do not have much of an ocean smell at all. That is limited to the more littoral waters

[bottomcrawler]

When you leave the dock and bring the linehandlers down, you rig the escape trunks for dive. From that point on you can not break the 'rig for dive' without the OOD's expressed permission. If you DO break rig for dive, it had BETTER be for a dang good reason as it takes two people to sign off on it..

I've no idea what "linehandlers" or "escape trunks" mean...

So, short answer seems to be: No, unless there are extraordinary circumstances. Right?


Actually, i does not smell that bad at all. The deep ocean does not have a 'smell'. When you are at sea, that 'sea smell' is refered to as the smell of LAND. Thats right, while at sea, you do not have much of an ocean smell at all. That is limited to the more littoral waters

Ah! Cool!

[Neptunus Rex]

Actually, only the Captain can authorize a break from "rigged for dive". Once while underway, I was in Control when the OPEN/SHUT indicator for the forward access hatch on the Ballast Control Panel went from SHUT to OPEN. (A green 0. A green horizontal dash indicates shut, hench "straight board".) I don't think I've have ever seen over a dozen sets of eyes come out of their sockets at the same time, including my own.

I went forward to the forward access trunk and after testing the 7MC to Control, asked for permission to open the lower drain valve to check for flooding. Permission granted and I cracked the valve, no water, but it could be clogged.:shifty:

Mind you, we were not on the surface, but not too deep!

Then came the big one, permission to open the lower hatch! A few minutes later, Capt says OPEN it. I crack the hatch about as slow as I could until the seal cracked. No Water.:lol:

Undogged full and open and reported the lower hatch open and latched.

Now I had to climb up into the trunk, but I could see the problem. During an inport upkeep, someone had dismantled the upper hatch dogging mechanism, did not mark the gears for relative position and reassembled the mechanism with the operating gears not matched up as before. The operating gear could not operate in its full range and the bayonet ring was only half engaged with the matching lugs on the hatch ring, and as a result, the magnet for the hatch switch was not in fully closed position. (On a submarine, there is no such thing as half shut or half locked. If it's not fully shut or locked, then it's open or unlocked!):rock:

The only thing preventing the ocean from coming in was the sea pressure itself seating the hatch. (The hatches are designed that way.)

The XO came in and asked if I could do anything. Not with the bayonet rings, but I could adjust the magnet to get a SHUT indicator. CO gave his okay and that's what I did.

Someone (and their Chief) did get his BH reamed over undocumented and sloppy work, but you can rest assurded that that hatch was the first priority when we hit port.

Thank god it didn't happen during spec op.

During the 5 or 10 minutes this happened, I sweated more water than there was in that trunk.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Let me add an experience along a similar theme:

After a hatch ring repair job, we had to go into the escape trunk to verify NO leakage on the upper hatch seal. Well, a bright (read DUMB!) person saw that the dogs were not fully engaged and gave the operating ring a twist to fully engage the dogs. Once we surfaced and came into port, we could NOT undog the hatch.

You have to remember that he hull (and hatch) COMPRESSES when you dive. When we went shallow, the hatch uncompressed and now the hatch was dogged TOO tight and could not be opened. As this is how you get people topside (well, ONE of the ways) we could not go into port (we were at the point of putting people topside when we found this out). We had to go BACK out, dive to a deeper depth (thank gawd for logs to tell us how deep we were for the test) and undog the hatch. I mean FULLY undog the hatch and then resurface, redog the hatch, then go back down again.

[LoBlo]

Q1: What do you are RL submariners think of DARPAs Tango Bravo Project? Do you think that it will be successful? Or that it will make any real change in the way submarines are designed/operated?

http://www.darpa.mil/STO/solicitations/tangobravo/proposers.htm

Q2: Do you think that the heavy media speculation of the impact of UUVs is correct? Everything I hear states that it will "revolutionarize"(sp?) the way subs operate in littoral waters. What impact do you think they will make? Will subs now stay far off and let a UUV do the ISR, anti-mine for them?

[Frame57]

:rotfl: Neptunus...problem with your hatch was probably because those no-loads from the Simon Lake worked on it.

[Frame57]

Q1: What do you are RL submariners think of DARPAs Tango Bravo Project? Do you think that it will be successful? Or that it will make any real change in the way submarines are designed/operated?

http://www.darpa.mil/STO/solicitations/tangobravo/proposers.htm

Q2: Do you think that the heavy media speculation of the impact of UUVs is correct? Everything I hear states that it will "revolutionarize"(sp?) the way subs operate in littoral waters. What impact do you think they will make? Will subs now stay far off and let a UUV do the ISR, anti-mine for them?As technology advances so does the submarine fleet. I think I read where the Virginia class boats no longer have conventional periscopes, nor the standard steering and diving control system that has been used for decades, but rather one "joystick" to control the boat. Personally I think we will see much more automation and fewer crew billets in the future. I think it is a fair prediction that UUV technology will improve and play an even greater role in surveillance and other capabilities. Various hydrodynamic drive systems have been toyed with but have been failures, so I think that the concept of shaftless drive systems will venture into peripheral electic drives systems that will be built on the current retractable technology used today.

[Neptunus Rex]

Not only that, but it's one watchstander! And I think I read that they also combined the SCP and BCP, so that one watchstander is no longer the junior section member but a Chief Petty Officer!

[Frame57]

Not only that, but it's one watchstander! And I think I read that they also combined the SCP and BCP, so that one watchstander is no longer the junior section member but a Chief Petty Officer! So it seems that the helmsman/planesman and COW have been combined into one watch station! Damn the torpedoes...Driving the boat was the most fun I had as a nub. Heck, now you would have to be an E-7 before you can have some fun. Eh! maybe one day I will get to take a tour of one of these.

[Rip]

Let me add an experience along a similar theme:

After a hatch ring repair job, we had to go into the escape trunk to verify NO leakage on the upper hatch seal. Well, a bright (read DUMB!) person saw that the dogs were not fully engaged and gave the operating ring a twist to fully engage the dogs. Once we surfaced and came into port, we could NOT undog the hatch.

You have to remember that he hull (and hatch) COMPRESSES when you dive. When we went shallow, the hatch uncompressed and now the hatch was dogged TOO tight and could not be opened. As this is how you get people topside (well, ONE of the ways) we could not go into port (we were at the point of putting people topside when we found this out). We had to go BACK out, dive to a deeper depth (thank gawd for logs to tell us how deep we were for the test) and undog the hatch. I mean FULLY undog the hatch and then resurface, redog the hatch, then go back down again.

I was just about to recount almost that same exact story. I guess it isn't as uncommon of a mistake as I had thought. I feel for the dumbass that dogged it while we were a test depth though. He became known for the incident. Also we didn't return to sea, they had the tender land a ****load of lead onto the hatch so it could be undogged. A few hundred pounds per square inch can add up when spread across an escape hatch.:D

[LoBlo]

Let me know if these questions are coming too fast or too randomly. They really sorta come to me randomly through the day whenever I read about sub life.

Here's are a few general questions about life of a submariner...

1) What motivated you to go into the submarine force? What did you see in the sub force that made you say "that's where I want to serve"? Was it a person that you met and made it sound like a great place to be? Or was there someone that you met that inspired you that subs were more noble? Did you know that you wanted to be a submarine before you even joined the navy?

2) Once you joined the sub force, was the experience what you expected it to be? Better? Worse? Different? If so, how?

3) Do most submariners on there first duty return for a 2nd tour? (if "tours" are what you call them). Why did the ones that stayed stay, and why did the ones that went go?

4) How much more or less is the pay of a submariner than the pay of a 'equally ranked' surface ship sailor (if its not too rude to ask). I guess a good comparision would be a fresh-first-time-on-any-ship-surface-sailor versus a fist-time-fresh-on-any-boat-submariner (if they can be compared). Did pay difference effect decisions to stay?

5) How much more diffulcult was it on your family for a submariner versus a surface ship sailor? Did you see them less often than a surface-ship sailor? Or talk to them less? Were relationships harder to maintain/sustain for a submariner versus other sailors?

6) What do you miss the most about the service?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

I was just about to recount almost that same exact story. I guess it isn't as uncommon of a mistake as I had thought. I feel for the dumbass that dogged it while we were a test depth though. He became known for the incident. Also we didn't return to sea, they had the tender land a ****load of lead onto the hatch so it could be undogged. A few hundred pounds per square inch can add up when spread across an escape hatch.:D

That is a SERIOUS amount of lead.

We just opted to go back out. They made sure to post on the POD the name of the dumb*** who cost us a day in port. Want to know the REAL fun part, when we got back in, there was a team standing by to perform an exam. The ORSE team. Yeah, fun time for all. A suprise ORSE to add to that weeks fun.

That week has some choice memories when I go back and read my diary.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Let me know if these questions are coming too fast or too randomly. They really sorta come to me randomly through the day whenever I read about sub life.

Here's are a few general questions about life of a submariner...

1) What motivated you to go into the submarine force? What did you see in the sub force that made you say "that's where I want to serve"? Was it a person that you met and made it sound like a great place to be? Or was there someone that you met that inspired you that subs were more noble? Did you know that you wanted to be a submarine before you even joined the navy?

I did it to be different. I am from a LONG line of aviators. My dad was an LtCdr while I was an enlisted puke (both in at the same time!) Anyway, I just wanted to be different. I turned down a chance at the Naval Academy (I had a free ride if I had wanted it) and looked to enlist to start my own life. I passed the NFQT and decided that I needed to do things on my own. Once I made it out of nuke school subs seemed to be the place to be. All my instructors who were suface nukes seemed to have a corncob up the rectum and the bubbleheads were just laid back.

2) Once you joined the sub force, was the experience what you expected it to be? Better? Worse? Different? If so, how? It was ... different. You can not understand the pressure and expectactions that are placed on you. You can not understand the bonds that are formed unless you are there to experience them. The only thing I rate higher in my life is having kids. Nothing else compares to the experience.

6) What do you miss the most about the service?

1) The PRIDE of doing a job.

That is where the politics came into play. If I could have just done my JOB, I would have retired from it. But alas, you have to play the game. It is a game with hard rules and harder consequences for failure to abide by them. It is about getting a 'ticket punched', getting that 'bullet' billet. It is not about being the best you can do at your job, it is how well you network and who you do not piss off in doing your job.

2) Trust

I was an oddball on my boat. Everyone picks on everyone to some extent. People would razz me all the time becuase I was easy to razz and just let it roll off me. But when things went wrong or you NEEDED someone who knew their job, I was one of the first asked to be there. I knew I was valued when we had an actual emergency in the engineroom. The question was asked quickly "who is ERUL?" and the answer was 'Merc'; they told me later that they knew everything was going to be cool, They knew I had my end handled and could trust in my abilities.

[Frame57]

Joining the Submarine Service was an act of divine providence. I was painting the navy recruiters house and he did what all recruiter are good at and talked me into it. He promised the best schools, pay and chow and he was right in all aspects.

Subs sailors get "sea pay" and "hazardous duty pay" which I believe Teddy Roosevelt authorized after he toured one of the early boats. I am not sure what the figures would be today, but back 20 plus years I guess we made about 30 to 40 percent more money than sailors who did not have those extra pay perks.

The navy invests a lot of time and money in their sub sailors so once you are a bubblehead you remain one unless you get in trouble. So one does not go from subs to lets say a tin can at his discretion. Planned rotation dates (PRD's) came up every two years and often crew members would transfer to another boat or take a stint of shore duty if they were up for it and wanted it.

I found a profound difference between the surface fleet and the sub fleet. I found submariners to be very detail minded and professional and we got things done with little red tape. I found the surface fleet to be oddly disfunctional at times and had little "esprit de corp". I saw intense dislike toward us from skimmers as we called them, especially when tied up to a sub tender. It was not uncommon to have them curse us and try to fight with us when tied next one. yet this behavior on their part was common knowledge and their superiors never did anything to stop them. I vowed to never have anything to do with the surface navy again after those experiences.

What makes one stay? For me it was a sense of belonging. Ithink most sub sailors feel and are an integral part of that sub and its missions. A true sense of accomplishment. I would do it all over again...

[Neptunus Rex]

Think about it.

Submariner.

It is a unique occupation. It has no civilian counterpart.

[Dr.Sid]

What about infantry soldier ? :arrgh!:

[Neptunus Rex]

Police officer. SWAT member.

[Dr.Sid]

Ok .. then artillery crew, ICBM silo crew :|\\

[Frame57]

If I had to compare ICBM silo duty with snoopin and poopin on a fast attack, it would be like watching the paint dry as opposed to stalking game in the wilderness. Oh, wait I think EA is coming out with a ICBM silo sim....NOT!:haha: Even though those people are vital to national security I would have to say it would be terminally boring duty. I often thought about getting a job with one of those underwater exploration outfits. But for now it is just supporting the Naval Submarine League and keeping the Pompanito afloat...

[Neptunus Rex]

Ok .. then artillery crew, ICBM silo crew :|\\

Aviation Mechanic

Aviation Electronics Tech

Sheet Metal Worker

NASA Contractor

ESA Contractor

Bomb Squad/EOD

[Neptunus Rex]

keeping the Pompanito afloat...

Down Periscope!

[Rip]

Myself, I was born in SE Indiana which meant the only opportunities I saw around me was farming or factory worker. Neither was something I could stand. I had a taste for adventure and I had never seen a submarine or the ocean. So it was my kind of jumping off the cliff into something that promised the most awakening experience.

It was that and more. The time really formed my moral character and my self teaching tendency. Submarine qualifications IMHO are about way more than the knowledge you obtain in that year. It trains you to seek information and find it yourself. With perseverance and attention to detail. I quit high school to join and really got nothing guaranteed but a chance in the submarine program. I got way more than I bargained for and certainly more than the rest of high school and college could have given me.

I actually skirted a number of red tape hurdles miraculously allowing me to obtain an electronics rating and a number of difficult to get in programs. Without graduating HIGH SCHOOL! Today I own and operate a computer and networking consulting company. Most everything I learn by researching and reading myself. I loath "schools".

All that I have done in my 20 years since I got out I can say would not have been possible without having served that time. The skills I will use till I become senile. Then I will probably run for government office!:har:

[Frame57]

Myself, I was born in SE Indiana which meant the only opportunities I saw around me was farming or factory worker. Neither was something I could stand. I had a taste for adventure and I had never seen a submarine or the ocean. So it was my kind of jumping off the cliff into something that promised the most awakening experience.

It was that and more. The time really formed my moral character and my self teaching tendency. Submarine qualifications IMHO are about way more than the knowledge you obtain in that year. It trains you to seek information and find it yourself. With perseverance and attention to detail. I quit high school to join and really got nothing guaranteed but a chance in the submarine program. I got way more than I bargained for and certainly more than the rest of high school and college could have given me.

I actually skirted a number of red tape hurdles miraculously allowing me to obtain an electronics rating and a number of difficult to get in programs. Without graduating HIGH SCHOOL! Today I own and operate a computer and networking consulting company. Most everything I learn by researching and reading myself. I loath "schools".

All that I have done in my 20 years since I got out I can say would not have been possible without having served that time. The skills I will use till I become senile. Then I will probably run for government office!:har:I knew an IC man from your neck of the woods. Yep, you scored well on your ASVAB as did I, but I became a knuckle dragger instead...Got my GED when I was on my second boat and then received 64 sem hours of college credit with the CLEP program during shore duty. Finally got my electronics though when i got out of the service and my electronics professor was a retired sub officer off of diesel boats. what a small world it is...

[Rip]

Indeed. I always felt it improved my school performance returning from the fleet. I knew what I needed to learn and I knew how it would help me. I don't think I would have been able to maintain 90 averages had I went before I had spent the couple years in the fleet I did.

It also helped me get by being a somewhat sloppy sailor. The instructors generally cut me a lot of slack because I had my dolphins. I think they did the same for any surface warfare guys. But I don't recall seeing hardly any non-rated surface warfare guys. Since it wasn't a requirement most skimmers didn't get qualified for MANY years.

I think it probably got me layed a few times in Orlando as well. Salty sub sailor with a car and a hotel room with a bathtub full of beer. Instant boot camp graduation party!

Tragic that there is no more RTC Orlando:down:

That was the only thing I bargained for besides subs. It was January and he said "When can you leave for Boot?" My answer was simple. Depends on where? Great lakes, call me this summer. Orlando, I will go home and pack!:rock:

[Frame57]

RIP:har: I can relate to it... My electronics professor actually rode me harder because i was a submariner. He expected more of me I guess. I cannot knock him now because I actually still remember how to "thevenize" a circuit. Not that it does me any good now that 99% of the time when I repair a medical device I just swap out a PCB. As far as Orlando goes, I guess the same hold true for San Diego. I have to admit our PT was a joke in boot camp. I remember sitting on the bleachers sipping a coke after 20 minutes of PT watching the recruits over the fence at MCRD dressed in full combat gear running a 5 miler. No wonder they hated us at times. When I graduated Boot camp I was waiting for my orders to get cut for New London and their was a hold up, so I spent a couple of days in TJ. Oh Lordy...I cannot post here what transpired there, but at that time it was a single man's paradise, this was before there were STD's that can kill you. Anyway when a few of us got back to NTC the chief at the holding barracks asked who just came in from TJ. I was stupid and spoke up. The next thing i know I was getting yet another penicillin shot in the ass. The corpman just grinned and said, "If you wanna play you gotta pay".

My orders came in and i was supposed to report to the USS Tarawa. I was in shock! I called up the detailer and told him I was in the Subfarer program and that I was going to groton conn. Thank God they got it right finally. I reallly hated the chow hall at NTC. The grub was horrible. When I got to Groton and saw the sign at the chow hall that said, "through these lines pass the best fed sailors in the world" I knew i was in the right place. That coupled with 50 cent draft beers at the NCO club, hell, I was in heaven...

[Rip]

Woke up on Rosarita Beach myself a few times.

As far as Groton I remember the most about the Grotto(sp?) where the boomer widows hung out. Or Bank St. for those of us hardcore enough.

San Diego I usually could be found on Ocean Beach.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

As far as Groton I remember the most about the Grotto(sp?) where the boomer widows hung out. Or Bank St. for those of us hardcore enough.

Dang, I forgot about the boomer widows.

We fast boat guys never had that problem for the most part. Let me tell you, when we spent time up there in the floating drydock, it was an eye opening experience.

[Frame57]

As far as Groton I remember the most about the Grotto(sp?) where the boomer widows hung out. Or Bank St. for those of us hardcore enough.

Dang, I forgot about the boomer widows.

We fast boat guys never had that problem for the most part. Let me tell you, when we spent time up there in the floating drydock, it was an eye opening experience.I have to admit that we stayed away from the Boomer Widows. We had some respect for our fellow brethren. There was a good Rock-n-Roll bar called the back door farther down bank street on the outskirts of the down town area. We would just walk the railroad tracks and cross the old train bridge to get into New London. I have no idea why none of us had a car at the time, but it was fun anyway. When I was mess cookin, a fellow nub at the time who hailed from Sacramento and could and should not drink, got real mouthy in an all black bar on bank street one night. Well, they busted his jaw and somewhow I managed to talk my way out of letting them haul his mothy but out of there. The COB loved this because he had his jaw wired. What a way to learn a lesson in life...I heard a lot of stories about bank street, but never had a problem as long as we behaved. The chiefs used to like to hang out at Rosies just outside the base, we called this place the "Hogger" bar because it seemed like that was all that was in there. Ouch! I am getting a hang over just remembering all this stuff:salute:

[Bubblehead Nuke]

I have to admit that we stayed away from the Boomer Widows. We had some respect for our fellow brethren. There was a good Rock-n-Roll bar called the back door farther down bank street on the outskirts of the down town area. We would just walk the railroad tracks and cross the old train bridge to get into New London. I have no idea why none of us had a car at the time, but it was fun anyway. When I was mess cookin, a fellow nub at the time who hailed from Sacramento and could and should not drink, got real mouthy in an all black bar on bank street one night. Well, they busted his jaw and somewhow I managed to talk my way out of letting them haul his mothy but out of there. The COB loved this because he had his jaw wired. What a way to learn a lesson in life...I heard a lot of stories about bank street, but never had a problem as long as we behaved. The chiefs used to like to hang out at Rosies just outside the base, we called this place the "Hogger" bar because it seemed like that was all that was in there. Ouch! I am getting a hang over just remembering all this stuff:salute:

I remember the first time I met a boomer widow. She walked up to me and told me I could come back to her place. No intro, no hello's. I was shocked. She said I looked lonely and a decent enough looking fellow. She filled me in about the boomer wives. Like you, I have more respect than to do that. Even though I was not even stationed at Groton and I could have gotten away with it. I did get a home cooked meal out of being a gentleman.

Now 'hogging', that was a regional sport in Groton. I watched a senior chief we had onboard win the $1500 pool we had built up on that topic. Not only that, he brought back souveniers to show after he won the pool (they were not needed to win btw), and went back out the next night with her.

Tell me, am I letting out too much here about the secret lives of bubbleheads?

[Dr.Sid]

Hey enlighten us dry fellows a bit more .. boomer widows ? :o

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Hey enlighten us dry fellows a bit more .. boomer widows ? :o

A boomer widow is this:

Husband (or boyfriend) is stationed on a boomer. You know when they are leaving and when they are coming back. Spouses know ships movements schedules regardless of what the navy thinks.

Anyway, the man leaves, pictures get turned around or put away. The wedding ring comes off if she is married. The lady then looks for company for the time she knows that the he will be gone. She looks for someone single and ensures that there will be no attatchments. He leaves a day or two before the boat comes back.

Want to hear something REALLY twisted. I KNEW two guys that had the same girlfriend. They were on different crews on the same boat. Thus they never interferred with each others activities except for that oh so brief turnover between deployments. Want to talk about hot racking!!

Before you ask about hogging: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hogging

[Dr.Sid]

Hot racking indeed :rotfl:

[Zachstar]

That is just... wrong :o

[Rip]

Hopefully the Blue Crew guy isn't a dirtbag.

:timeout:

[Frame57]

One salty old Chief once told us his secret to getting "Hoggers" was to stand outside of Rosies and tie an ear of corn to a fishing line and cast it into the bar...:haha:

[LoBlo]

Not to break topic guys, but here's another couple of questions.

1) How often does a submarine go to dry dock?
2) How often do submariners have to go into the ballast tanks for maintenance on the bow planes, hydraulics, TA, etc in the ballast tanks? Every port? Is it dry in there when the sub is surfaced?
3) Aside from the propulsion system (meaning the reactor, turbines, gears, shaft, etc), what part of the ship is most maintenance intensive?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Not to break topic guys, but here's another couple of questions.

1) How often does a submarine go to dry dock?
2) How often do submariners have to go into the ballast tanks for maintenance on the bow planes, hydraulics, TA, etc in the ballast tanks? Every port? Is it dry in there when the sub is surfaced?
3) Aside from the propulsion system (meaning the reactor, turbines, gears, shaft, etc), what part of the ship is most maintenance intensive?

1) As required and only when ABSOLUTELY neccesary. There is a HUGE amount of prep work required to haul a boat out of the water. You tend to backlog as much as possible before you need to go in there. Once you are in there you do EVERYTHING you can think of, you look ahead and see if there are things that you can do early and get done ahead of schedule.

Another thing to consider is the stess on the hull while in dry dock. It is not insubstantial and can cause unforseen problems.

2) You can not go into the ballast tanks unless you are in dry dock. The ballast tanks are open to the sea on the bottom. They can not be entered due to closed space restrictions. Once in a dry dock it takes some serious prep to ensure safe entry into them.

3) The Crew.

[LoBlo]

2) You can not go into the ballast tanks unless you are in dry dock. The ballast tanks are open to the sea on the bottom. They can not be entered due to closed space restrictions. Once in a dry dock it takes some serious prep to ensure safe entry into them.

That's interesting. I find this somewhat surprising considering that there's the bow planes, torpedo tube doors, hydraulics and such all in the ballast tanks. I would have thought that they would need at least eye-balling quite often just for the sake of "looking under the hood and checking the oil". How easy do you think it would be to have ventral doors on the ballast tanks so that they are water free when the sub is surfaced and docked? Is it possible?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

That's interesting. I find this somewhat surprising considering that there's the bow planes, torpedo tube doors, hydraulics and such all in the ballast tanks. I would have thought that they would need at least eye-balling quite often just for the sake of "looking under the hood and checking the oil". How easy do you think it would be to have ventral doors on the ballast tanks so that they are water free when the sub is surfaced and docked? Is it possible?

Nah, there are operational checks to be done sure, but most of the testing can be done remotely. Hydraulic? Hydrostatic testing, Limit switches? There are multiple redundancies. There are no real operational issues. The inspections are saved for when you have to drydock. If something SERIOUS happened and BROKE one of these neccessary devices then you go into the dock, and then you take care of as much as you can while you are in there.

MBT on most modern NUKE boats are open to the sea. This allows for faster filling and simplier operation. You go out and open the MBT vents and you sink. You KNOW they are going to flood when you open the vents.

A diesel boat may have MBT bottom seacocks, but this is because the MBT may do double duty as a fuel tank. I'll bet you that any non-fuel capbble MBT is open to sea at the bottom with no seacock to seal the tank at the bottom.

Why no hatches on top you ask? They may be damaged and leak. They could be opened by the shock of a depth charge. They may make flow noise around the hinge or around the peremeter of the hatch. There are all kinds of problems that I see if you put an access panel in the top of the MBT's. I see no positives in it at all. Would YOU want your MBT's to not hold air due to an undersea collision like the San Fransisco? If there are no openings, then there is nothing to leak air in the event of a problem.

[LoBlo]

Hm... that's interesting as well. Did the San Francisco's tanks still hold air after it's crash? That ballast tank looked like a floating disaster. http://www.maritimequest.com/in_the_news_pages/uss_san_francisco_grounding/04_uss_san_francisco_damage.jpg

What intriguing is that all the design reviews and research recommendations are urging to push more and more stuff into the bow and aft. The Defense Science Task Force recommended "bomb-b (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/docs/sotf.htm)ay" approaches, and the USN Darpa is asking for "shaftless propulsion" and "external weapons (http://www.darpa.mil/STO/solicitations/tangobravo/proposers.htm)", even the Virginia Block III is proposing ditching the 12 verticle tubes for 2 large SSGN type tubes in the bow, so it seems that it will be unavoidable for more bow/ballast tank access as a must, unless all the research will just end up whistling dixie...

[Dr.Sid]

I heard Russians use seacocks on MBTs too. With open MTB, the air inside is at pressure of bottom hole depth, which is about 3 atmospheres for nuke.
Russians blow, then close the seacocks, then open vents. That reduces pressure inside MBTs to 1 atmosphere. So actual weight of the air insied is lowered 3 times, which makes flooding faster.

As for the picture of crashed LA .. LA uses sonar dome in front of the pressure hull, which is covered by fiberglass to smooth the shape. Pressure hull starts at the green wall (IMHo). While it's bended, I'd say it holded.
First wents are actually about 2 meters in front of the active sonar warning reciever, which is the small black thingy right next to the first guy above.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Hm... that's interesting as well. Did the San Francisco's tanks still hold air after it's crash? That ballast tank looked like a floating disaster. http://www.maritimequest.com/in_the_news_pages/uss_san_francisco_grounding/04_uss_san_francisco_damage.jpg


I have better pictures, but I am unable to post them.

Anyway, there are 3 forward MBT's on a 688. They are divided into further divided into two tanks. One port, One starboard.

Think of them like this:

<bow>
1a/1b
2a/2b
3a/3b

You have a fibreglass done that covers the sonar sphere. (Quick qual question: How many watertight compartments are there on a 688? Anyone? Anyone? FOUR. They are the sonar sphere, the forward compartment, the reactor compartment, and the aft compartment)

Anway, the 1a was voided to sea and useless. 1b & 2a were leaking badly. You had to keep pumping air into them and it was leaking out about as fast as you could pump it in there.

That left 2b, 3a &b to support the mass of the submarine at the bow. The sonar sphere (that forward most watertight compartment) was flooded due to the damage.

That they survived is a testimate to the training they had and how well we build boats. There was also some luck involved of course

Here is something I think you might like, it is the account from the DOOW on the San Fran:
February 12, 2005 - DOOW Account


To say the world went to shyte in a hand basket would be an understatement. I would put it closer to a nightmare that becomes reality.

The seamount that is a large part of the discussion the last 2 weeks is un-named. The charts we carried onboard were up to date as far as we cantell. No modern geographic data for this area was available to us onboard as it is a remote area not often traveled by the Navy. We have one of the BEST ANav's in the fleet onboard, a true quartergasket that takes pride in his job. We have RLGN's onboard, when they are running, they are accurate as hell for our position, they also drive Tomahawks.

We knew where we were. All of my depth gauges and digital read the same depths as we changed depth to our SOE depth for flank. I can't discuss alot, because I'm still a participent of at least 2 investigations....LOL.

I was the Diving Officer of the Watch when we grounded. If you read the emails from ComSubPac, you will get some of the details, from flank speed to less than 4 knots in less than 4 seconds. We have it recorded on the RLGN's-those cranky bastages actually stayed up and recorded everything.
For you guys that don't understand that, take a Winnebego full of people milling around and eating, slam it into a concrete wall at about 40mph, and then try to drive the damn thing home and pick up the pieces of the passengers.
As for the actual grounding, I can tell you that it was fortunate that myself and the Chief of the Watch were blessed by somebody. I was standing up, changing the expected soundings for a new depth on the chart (yes, we had just moved into deeper water) leaning against the ship's control panel with a hand grip, and the COW was leaning down to call the COB on the MJ.

The next thing to cross my mind was why am I pushing myself off of the SCP and where the hell the air rupture in the control room come from? I didn't know it, but I did a greater than 3g spiderman against the panel, punched a palm through the only plexiglass gauge on the SCP and had my leg crushed by the DOOW chair that I had just unbuckled from. The DOOW chair was broken loose by the QMOW flying more than 15 feet into it and smashing my leg against a hydraulic valve and the SCP. I don't remember freeing myself from it. If I had been buckled in, I don't think I would be writing this.

The COW was slammed against the base of the Ballast Control Panel, and only injured his right arm. He could of destroyed the BCP, he was a big boy.Everybody else in control, with the exception of the helm, was severely thrown to the deck or other items that were in their way, and at least partially dazed.

Within about 5 seconds of the deceleration! , we blew to the surface, it took that 5 seconds for the COW to climb up the BCP and actuate the EMBT blow.

We prepared to surface right away and got the blower running asap, I didn't know how much damage we had forward but knew it was not good, I wanted that blower running.



I would say that about 80% of the crew was injured in some way, but do not know the number. We grounded in the middle of a meal hour, just after field day, so most of the crew was up. Once we got the boat on the surface and semi-stable with the blower running the rest of the ship conditions started sinking in to our minds.We were receiving 4MC's for injured men all over the boat. I was worried that those reports were over whelming any equipment/boat casualties that could make our life worse. I had teams form up of able bodied men to inspect all of the forward elliptical bulkhead, lower level, and tanks below those spaces. I couldn't believe that we did not have flooding, it just didn't fit in. At one pointI looked around in the control room, and saw the disaster. The entire control room deck was covered in paper from destroyed binders, and blood. It looked like a slaughterhouse, we had to clean it up.




I knew that Ash was severly injured and brought to the messdecks, he was one of my best men, and one of our best sailors onboard, he was like a son to me. After surfacing I was the control room supervisor, I had a boat to keep on the surface and fight and knew that if I went below to see how he was doing, it would teeter me on the brink of something that the ship did not need, the ship needed somebody who knew her. I have to say that the design engineers at Electric Boat, NavSea and others have designed a submarine that can withstand incredible amounts of damage and survive. We lost no systems, equipment, or anything broke loose during the impact. The damage to our sailors was almost all from them impacting into the equipment.



The crew is a testament to training and watch team backup. When a casualty occurs, you fight like you train, and train like you fight. It kept us alive during that 2+day period.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the choppiness, I had to edit a few things out.


Here is something a little more official:
The nuclear reactor plant, propulsion train and electrical distribution systems were unaffected by the incident. The primary material concern is buoyancy. Main ballast tanks 1A/1B/2B and the sonar sphere are assessed to be partially flooded and compromised, resulting in a slight port list, increased draft and slight down angle. To maintain adequate buoyancy for normal surface transit, the low pressure blower is operating continuously on the forward main ballast tanks. The ship is holding steady at a zero-degree trim angle with a port two-degree list. There is visible damage topside to the sonar dome.

An emergency procedure was developed by NAVSEA and provided to the ship to allow use of the diesel as a blower for the forward ballast tanks in the event the LP blower fails. Diesel crank web deflections are satisfactory.

[Frame57]

:har: :har: You guys said "sea-cocks":har:

[Rip]

:har: :har: You guys said "sea-cocks":har:

Of course, what else would you find in you sea-socks!:yeah:

[Dr.Sid]

I meant valves if it's not clear.
If it's just funny, it's ok with me. :arrgh!:

[Frame57]

You were clear Sid. Just some American humor where anything sounding remotely naughty makes us laugh.:salute:

[Dr.Sid]

You call this 'remotely' ? :rotfl:

[Frame57]

Yep! I used to like the Beevis and butthead cartoon where they did this type of humor often.:)

[LoBlo]

Anway, the 1a was voided to sea and useless. 1b & 2a were leaking badly. You had to keep pumping air into them and it was leaking out about as fast as you could pump it in there.

That left 2b, 3a &b to support the mass of the submarine at the bow. The sonar sphere (that forward most watertight compartment) was flooded due to the damage.

That they survived is a testimate to the training they had and how well we build boats. There was also some luck involved of course

Truely a testimate to the sturdiness of the boats. That's good engineering...:o :cool:

[LoBlo]

Random question for the RL submariners.

Do submarines have regular washer and dryers on board for clothe washing or are they specially made units for "ultraquiet" operation?

I just wondered since I can hear my own washer across my apartment with all doors closed.:hmmm:

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Random question for the RL submariners.

Do submarines have regular washer and dryers on board for clothe washing or are they specially made units for "ultraquiet" operation?

I just wondered since I can hear my own washer across my apartment with all doors closed.:hmmm:


On a 688, there is ONE washer, and ONE dryer. They are stacked one on top of the other near AMR in the lower level. They can handle a LOT of clothes. They are rather efficient little machines.

As for beinh special built? Well, they are small but not overly quiet. They ARE sound isolation mounted BUT, if you need to be quiet you do not use them.

People used to wonder WHY an experinced bubblehead would go to sea with 30 pairs of t-shirts, underwear and socks. You can go for a month without having to do laundry.

[Neptunus Rex]

Patrol Quiet you have to ask permission from the OOD (or Capt) through the Chief of the Watch.

Ultra Quiet, no wash, no dry. Better have extra's.

Oh, and if the fresh water evaporator breaks down (and it would), no wash. (or shower for that matter).

[LoBlo]

Thanks for the info guys. That begs the question.... what's the longest that you've seen a submariner on patrol go without a shower? 90 days?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Um.. no.. If someone went more than a DAY without a shower we would have 'helped' him get clean. There is enough stink on a boat without someone intentionally being a dick.


You ALWAYS get a shower after EVERY watch unless something bad happens. You never knew when it was going to be your last for a while. Taking a shower filles the san tanks with water. When they are full you have to pump (or blow) them over the side. This make NOISE. Noise is BAD. If you get into a situation when you can't afford to make noise you secure the showers fairly soon.

Sea Story time:

We had ONCE, the failure of both the rainmaker and the baby rainmaker. These are the primary distilling plant and its much smaller emergency backup.

The main plant broke on the back watch on a sunday and would not clear the salinity alarms. We fired up baby and it would not clear ITS salinity alarms either.

To those other bubbleheads reading this, yes, we performed the sacred rites, chicken bones and all. We made the proscribed sacrifices. The naked rain dance failed to correct the issue as well. I have a photo SOMEWHERE around here of 15 or so guys dancing naked around the the evap. It is funny as hell as we did not know our chief had a sense of humor and he took the photo and had a bajillion copies made.

Anyway, we could not make ANY fresh water and that is a bad thing. Drinking water you can do without for a bit, but the PLANT had to have a supply if we were going to keep steaming.

I was pulled off the watchbill monday morning with 4 others with the expressed duty to get ONE of them running. Yep, they dropped the whole MM side of the engineroom to port/starboard watches to get this fixed. We decided to dismantle and rebuild BOTH of them at the same time. Ambitious guys huh??

You have to understand, we were UNDERWAY at the time. We could not just 'pull in' and get it fixed and we were a bit distant from the nearest support facility. These are industrial grade pieces of hardware. Fixing them in port is a pain. Doing it underway was even worse.

The whole crew was put on no showers, double and triple up before a flush (I know.. EWWWW), watch what you drink, etc etc etc.

You have NEVER heard such a whine from the sonar boys. They would come back and tell us to do our jobs so they could take a shower.

Anyway, come FRIDAY morning, baby clears it salinity alarm and we can put water forward to the potable water tanks. About 2 hours after that the big guy clears its alarms and we are back in biz. High fives all around. We were the freaking GODS and we knew it. Nothing could touch us after we got BOTH of them fixed.

About 20 minutes later they announce the weekly friday Field Day.

Up till that point I had not realized that I had been awake and functioning since I came on watch monday morning for the balls watch (midnight on monday morning when the logs say 00:00). It was now 08:00 friday morning and we were expected to start cleaning up the engineroom. Ahh.. the stamina of youth. Except for the coffee and the occasional sandwiches we had worked non-stop on this.

Anyway, we get it running and we were NOT allowed to take a shower nor get to sleep. That is till doc found out that we had been going non-stop. He put his foot down and we got a hot hollywood and unlimited rack time till we woke up on our own.

[OneShot]

Anyway, we get it running and we were NOT allowed to take a shower nor get to sleep. That is till doc found out that we had been going non-stop. He put his foot down and we got a hot hollywood and unlimited rack time till we woke up on our own.Just out of curiosity, was that (i.e. the NOT showering ,etc.) the idea of an officer or a NCO?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Just out of curiosity, was that (i.e. the NOT showering ,etc.) the idea of an officer or a NCO?

The Eng was the one who said it was an "all hands" evolution and it would be over in 4 hours anyway. With the berthing lights on he felt we would have been unable to go to sleep anyway.

I don't remember my head hitting the pillow.

[LoBlo]

More thanks :up:...

... and more questions. The evaporator makes me wonder. Seems like a fairly energy intensive process to evaporate enough seawater per day for the crew. Does anyone know if diesel boats use evaporators too or do they carry all their freshwater with them from port?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

More thanks :up:...

... and more questions. The evaporator makes me wonder. Seems like a fairly energy intensive process to evaporate enough seawater per day for the crew. Does anyone know if diesel boats use evaporators too or do they carry all their freshwater with them from port?

Dude, this is a nuke boat. We had power to spare. We could make FAR more water than we could use in a day. The reason for the large capacity?? You do not have to use it as long to meet your needs thus less time to make noise.

As for the desiel boats, well, the baby rainmaker was essentially the same one that was used on the non-nuke boats. It is electrical while the main evap uses steam. Why a different power source for evaporation? If the plant is down you could still make water. It was efficient enough we could use it when on the diesel in the event of a main plant casualty. Also, if the power plant is down you do not NEED to make that much water.

As for carrying your water from port, do you realize just how MUCH water you use in a day? I mean really, think about it. You use it for EVERYTHING. Your food, sanitary, drinking, equipment operation, etc all use soe amount of water. You could not carry more then two or so days with you. And that would be with rationing. Then you would not have room for food, parts, etc.

[LoBlo]

As for carrying your water from port, do you realize just how MUCH water you use in a day?

I guess we could crutch through the numbers.

An average person will conservatively need about 2 liters of total fluid intake per day. If you take "sponge baths" you will need about 3-4 liters per day for cleaning yourself which adds to about 5-6 liters per day per person. Most diesel boat crews are about 30 persons, so your looking at about 150-180 liters per day of clean water. An average diesel patrols for about 50-70 days at a time, meaning 150x50 to 180x70 which equals 7500 to 12600 liters per patrol. One cubic meter of H20 equals 1000 liters so we're looking at about 7.5 to 12.6 cubic meters of space to store the H2O. 7.5 cubic meters is about a box 1.9 meters per side and 12.6 cubic meters is a box about 2.6 meters per side just for sizing.

Seems doable for a 2000 ton boat.

I guess if its not too energy intensive to make fresh water then it would better housing more diesel fuel (since all the energy of the submarine will ultimately be supplied by the diesel one way or another) to make more water than to carry the water itself. Question that would need to be answered is... how many liters of water can a liter of diesel fuel make...? If a liter of diesel fuel can make 2 or more liters of water than it would be better to carry the fuel I guess... so yeah your probably right.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

I guess we could crutch through the numbers.

An average person will conservatively need about 2 liters of total fluid intake per day. If you take "sponge baths" you will need about 3-4 liters per day for cleaning yourself which adds to about 5-6 liters per day per person. Most diesel boat crews are about 30 persons, so your looking at about 150-180 liters per day of clean water. An average diesel patrols for about 50-70 days at a time, meaning 150x50 to 180x70 which equals 7500 to 12600 liters per patrol. One cubic meter of H20 equals 1000 liters so we're looking at about 7.5 to 12.6 cubic meters of space to store the H2O. 7.5 cubic meters is about a box 1.9 meters per side and 12.6 cubic meters is a box about 2.6 meters per side just for sizing.

Seems doable for a 2000 ton boat.

I guess if its not too energy intensive to make fresh water then it would better housing more diesel fuel (since all the energy of the submarine will ultimately be supplied by the diesel one way or another) to make more water than to carry the water itself. Question that would need to be answered is... how many liters of water can a liter of diesel fuel make...? If a liter of diesel fuel can make 2 or more liters of water than it would be better to carry the fuel I guess... so yeah your probably right.

Those numbers might work in an ideal enviroment, but a sub is far from it.

I can think of several factors that would increase the water usage listed by a factor of 10.

To be honest, the still (the correct name for the electric powered one) is VERY energy efficient and once lit off and making water would consume VERY little electricity. It would be more than sufficent for a small crew.

There are other technologies such as reverse osmosis that are even more energy efficient and in fact are passive rather than active water purification.

Anyway, small water tanks means more room for fuel, food, or whatever else you might need that you could not make out of the material all around you.

[timmyg00]

You have NEVER heard such a whine from the sonar boys. They would come back and tell us to do our jobs so they could take a shower. And this is why we called them "Shower Techs" ("ST" being the abbreviation of their rate) :haha:

TG

[LoBlo]

Thanks for the stories btw. Good stuff. Sorry for the randomness of the questions, they just come to me out the blue after I read something/see something and I don't know any RL sailors/submariners to ask.

Here's something I've always wondered about. On the Sturgeon class and LA class boats, how did the commanders keep track of all the contacts/ranges and actual tatical geometry that was happening around them. I found myself in DW mostly needing the NavMap to keep everything straightened otherwise the contacts all get confusing... do RL commanders on the LA/Sturgeons use a NavMap type of aid to keep things straightened out or was everything just kept in their head?

[Frame57]

One the Sturgeons we had a "Dot plotter". This was for a tracking party. Bearings on contacts were called out periodically and a grease pencil was used to mark the track which was positioned over a map. The Nav team also had a layout map for the CO or OD to view.

Our washer and dryer on the Archerfish really sucked. Ultra quiet definitely mandated not using them or even using (flushing) the crapper. Under the polar ice cap the dryer was forbidden because the damn thing caught fire all too often. Our blue coveralls were called "poopy suits" for a reason.:arrgh!:

[LoBlo]

Our blue coveralls were called "poopy suits" for a reason.:arrgh!:

:haha::up:

[Rip]

Thanks for the stories btw. Good stuff. Sorry for the randomness of the questions, they just come to me out the blue after I read something/see something and I don't know any RL sailors/submariners to ask.

Here's something I've always wondered about. On the Sturgeon class and LA class boats, how did the commanders keep track of all the contacts/ranges and actual tatical geometry that was happening around them. I found myself in DW mostly needing the NavMap to keep everything straightened otherwise the contacts all get confusing... do RL commanders on the LA/Sturgeons use a NavMap type of aid to keep things straightened out or was everything just kept in their head?

The best thing for maintaining a tactical awareness IMHO was the Geoplot. Basically a table that had a mechanical light (we called the bug) that moved around the table based on ownships course/speed.

We would use a ruler attached to an arm on the table to draw bearing lines onto the paper placed on top of the table. The plot coordinator (one of the jobs I did) would then lay down various solution possibilities using rulers calibrated to different speeds.

After changing courses and speeds some solutions would be eliminted until the actual solution would remain. Even with all the fancy computers this tool was very popular with the most talented of the OODs.

[jmr]

^^^
The old subsim, Fast Attack (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack.html) simulates that nicely. There's no picture of the drawn plot shown in that review but based on your input, Rip, it functions just as you described. What I never understood was how in the hell did you find a good solution on a track. It seems like there could be an infinite number of course/speed solutions you can find using your speed strips.

[Dr.Sid]

Just managed to get fast attack and even to run in dosbox. Generally the plotting screen is more or less same as on FFG in DW right ? Except it can be zoomed and moved at will. It's pretty tricky to really make solution like this. I ended shooting torpedo at actual target bearing and leaving it to the seeker. Then I used the wire to measure the exact range .. it was 60% off. :)

So no funky tactical map as we know it from the Hunt movie ?

[LoBlo]

^^^
The old subsim, Fast Attack (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack.html) simulates that nicely. There's no picture of the drawn plot shown in that review but based on your input, Rip, it functions just as you described. What I never understood was how in the hell did you find a good solution on a track. It seems like there could be an infinite number of course/speed solutions you can find using your speed strips.

[*nostalgic*] .I miss the good old days of fast attack
"Con, FireControl, weapon reattack on port side.... Weapon Acquired!"

I wish that DW used that sort of active voice feedback for weapons. Its more realistic.

The best thing for maintaining a tactical awareness IMHO was the Geoplot. Basically a table that had a mechanical light (we called the bug) that moved around the table based on ownships course/speed.

We would use a ruler attached to an arm on the table to draw bearing lines onto the paper placed on top of the table. The plot coordinator (one of the jobs I did) would then lay down various solution possibilities using rulers calibrated to different speeds.

After changing courses and speeds some solutions would be eliminted until the actual solution would remain. Even with all the fancy computers this tool was very popular with the most talented of the OODs.

Thanks for the insight. Does that mean that the ubiquitous Computer "Tracker" that Fast Attack and DW uses to magically track the target for the FC bearings was really just a guy shouting out bearing lines at standard intervals?

[jmr]

Be sure you guys grab the training guide available at subsim (http://www.subsim.com/subsim_files/patches2005.html#fastattack). It talks about how to get better use out of the plotting table.

[Rip]

^^^
The old subsim, Fast Attack (http://www.subsim.com/ssr/fastattack.html) simulates that nicely. There's no picture of the drawn plot shown in that review but based on your input, Rip, it functions just as you described. What I never understood was how in the hell did you find a good solution on a track. It seems like there could be an infinite number of course/speed solutions you can find using your speed strips.

The key is changing the speed in the line of sight. The hardest part is determining range. Sonar will usually provide a fairly close speed. There are two techniques that help a lot.

One is by using what is called a lag leg. Which basically means moving in the opposite direction of a contact in the line of sight bearing lines will cross between you and the target. This provides an absolute minimum range.

Next you change directions in the line of sight and if possible overlead him. This will cause bearing lines to cross beyond the target. Bang absolute maximum range. Between that you just try to get a certain target solution to fit the bearing lines as you alter ownship course and speed creating legs that will only allow one solution to match the bearing lines thought your maneuvers. The more legs the better the solution.

The fire control systems really do the same things it just displays the bearing errors as a stack of dots. If you make the dots stack perfect the solution fits all the bearing lines.

[Rip]

[*nostalgic*] .I miss the good old days of fast attack
"Con, FireControl, weapon reattack on port side.... Weapon Acquired!"

I wish that DW used that sort of active voice feedback for weapons. Its more realistic.



Thanks for the insight. Does that mean that the ubiquitous Computer "Tracker" that Fast Attack and DW uses to magically track the target for the FC bearings was really just a guy shouting out bearing lines at standard intervals?

There are computer trackers but they just track the acoustics from sonar. That provides all bearing output. There are different types (Narrowband, broadband. Analog, digital.) and quatities of trackers. The fire control system applies it to those system automatically. The fire control system has a geographical display of it's own. I never found the OODs to fancy that though. They usually liked the FC system to be on the dot stacking display. For the plot a guy reads the digital display out loud every minute and that bearing is manually layed down on the plot on a white tracing paper scrolled over the geoplot table. As you get to the edge of the table the paper is scrolled and the "bug" in the table is repositioned by cranking some knobs on the table.

[LoBlo]

That's interesting. I heard that the OOD did this on British submarines, but didn't realize that American submarines did it too. Were all plots kept on the same paper? (in the case of multiple contacts of interest?)

[Rip]

There was only one table so everything that was being plotted at once had to go onto the same sheet. Now we would pull the paper and start another for a new contact at a later time. We didn't plot all contacts only ones being tracked or those important to the current tactical situation. Also the plot wasn't always being used. Only if the tracking party was stationed which usually meant a particular contact of interest was being engaged.

[Dr.Sid]

In Clancy's 'Submarine' there is talk about automatic solution. It is said that Brits use only this, and that US use both automatic and manual.
Which is which ? Is 'automatic' stacking dots on fire control or is there some other station ? I did full auto TMA by least square method and it was quite good, so I guess navy uses something like that too.
Is 'manual' plotting desk ?

Also I'm bumping the request about 'link' contacts. Where are they displayed ? Or is whole 'link' on subs just a fantasy ?

[Rip]

In Clancy's 'Submarine' there is talk about automatic solution. It is said that Brits use only this, and that US use both automatic and manual.
Which is which ? Is 'automatic' stacking dots on fire control or is there some other station ? I did full auto TMA by least square method and it was quite good, so I guess navy uses something like that too.
Is 'manual' plotting desk ?

Also I'm bumping the request about 'link' contacts. Where are they displayed ? Or is whole 'link' on subs just a fantasy ?

The fire control system can do a dot stacking on it's own. Sometimes good, sometimes out in left field. You can also stack dots yourself. Plot table is purely manual.

We never had "link" info on the boats I was on. Not certain f that is something they now have. We only got info on contacts via text message and that was often old locations.

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Also I'm bumping the request about 'link' contacts. Where are they displayed ? Or is whole 'link' on subs just a fantasy ?

Links exist, but you are asking a question nobody with real info will be real comfortable answering.

One of those operational security things...

[Dr.Sid]

Link exist is totally fine for me. For game purposes, it could be done that older subs and small navies would rely on text message/voice message and manual plot, while modern subs could use some tactical display and digital link (like DW has).

[Neptunus Rex]

There was only one table so everything that was being plotted at once had to go onto the same sheet. Now we would pull the paper and start another for a new contact at a later time. We didn't plot all contacts only ones being tracked or those important to the current tactical situation. Also the plot wasn't always being used. Only if the tracking party was stationed which usually meant a particular contact of interest was being engaged.

Actually, there is one paper plot where sensor bearings to all contacts are made. It's called the Contact Evaluation Plot or CEP.

[Rip]

Actually, there is one paper plot where sensor bearings to all contacts are made. It's called the Contact Evaluation Plot or CEP.

This true. I was referring to the geo plot though. I always thought the CEP was a waste of time. Not updating it properly and timely has gotten many a sailors in the wringer though. Usually one of the key pieces requested in any collision investigation.:know:

[LoBlo]

Here's a general question:

In general, what was your favoriate *type* of mission? What was your least favorite *type* of mission and why?

[Rip]

Here's a general question:

In general, what was your favoriate *type* of mission? What was your least favorite *type* of mission and why?

I'll have to give favorite some thought and post it later. Least favorite is easy. Prep mission for some type of inspection is the worst. Whether is be ORE or something else, it is a guaranteed drill and field day packed deployment. Major crapfest!

[Frame57]

NTPI's and ORSE's sucked.... Hunting outbound Soviet boomers was the best IMO because you actually felt like you were doin something other than punching holes in the ocean.:salute:

[Dr.Sid]

Yet one thing about the plots. Contact symbols.

DW uses different symbol sets for friendly, neutral, hostile and unknown. It has symbols for weapon, missile, mine. Are these symbols any realistic ? Do manual plots use colors ?

Or are only the bearing lines plotted ?

[Rip]

The fire control system used symbols, the geoplot much more simplistic. About the only symbols I recall using was the contact designator i.e. M1 or S23 etc.

[Rip]

I'll have to give favorite some thought and post it later. Least favorite is easy. Prep mission for some type of inspection is the worst. Whether is be ORE or something else, it is a guaranteed drill and field day packed deployment. Major crapfest!


OK I gave this some thought and I would have to say (excluding port visits for propaganda in Perth or something) that my favorite would be a HULLTEC mission. Nothing cooler than giving another ship or sub a close up visual keel inspection without them being aware.

Rip

[Neptunus Rex]

OK I gave this some thought and I would have to say (excluding port visits for propaganda in Perth or something) that my favorite would be a HULLTEC mission. Nothing cooler than giving another ship or sub a close up visual keel inspection without them being aware.

Rip

Oh the underhulls!