Why is "no map contact update" so cheap in realism percents (GWX)?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I play GWX and 100% realism settings. I like the sunk ships icons on the map that I see on screenshots of some of you and I tried to find the way to have them on my map too. And what I found is "No map contact update" option in realism settings. I've always had it switched on, so I've no idea, what it is responsible for. But now the strange thing - switching that option off still gives you total of 100% realism. So let's try, I thought.

And what I found was just smashing! With this option off I have free access to so vast load of information, that my head blows off. With INSTANT bearing and distance to all the targets around me at least 10 km away from me:
- I don't have to manually estimate the target's course,
- I don't have to manually estimate the target's speed,
- I don't have to operate sonar personally, as it's a one look on the map and I see them all, the bloody DD's and how they are trying to hurt me bad.

So...
- I don't have to look for my target any more after my SO tells about a new contact,
- I also never loose my target with that option on,
- I find the target much, much faster than usually, as I don't have to estimate it's coordinates, course and speed by sonar manually.
And possibly some other remarks.

Das opschion iz evil!

I've got only one question: how the hell come that with that option you are still able to play "100% realism settings"? I think it should be punished much more or at least equal as external camera or event camera.

[HunterICX]

It is cheap because it was as well in StockSH3

you dont lose % if you disable/enable it.

if you compare WO assistance / Manual targeting.

WO assistance is cheaper then Manual targeting but its exact the same thing...only you have to do more work to get the Torpedo settings right

[danlisa]

I think the 'learning curve' from having Map Updates to No Map Updates is so large that there is an argument for it being an enjoyment killer.

So having this as a 0% realism option enables everyone to benefit from playing at 100%.(full renown + no warping).

Not everyone will agree that this is an enjoyment killer and I have to agree that if you can take the step to manual target plotting etc that you are experiencing the game to the fullest.

However, I hav'nt taken that step. Too much like hard work.:rotfl:

[raduz]

how the hell come that with that option you are still able to play "100% realism settings"? I think it should be punished much more or at least equal as external camera or event camera.

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking of since beginning. I have been a litlle bit disappointed by the GWX because it prefers DD evading than manual tagetting and hydrophone tracking target.

first of all, retrieving info concerning targets speed, distance and AOB have been possible in the stock game - you could identify the propelers sounds quite easily via hydrophone and there was also Greyriders wonderful RPM chart allowing you to identify target and learn its speed by counting RPM. alas, this feature no longer exists since GW because the original propelers sounds have been replaced by some other sounds.. No need to say that there is no RPM chart for these new sounds, so you cant use the RPM for speed calculations... :nope:

I do mind this: the kaleuns that used to use a full manual targetting and hydrophone in the stock game, are not rewarded for their abilities in the GWX. there is no difference between "no map contact update" ON and OFF. Hence, the players having this feature unchecked are not penalized at all... I dont think this is just:down:

on the other side, unchecking "no noise meter" costs 12 percent!! it seems a little bit unbalanced to me...

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Yes, "unbalanced", that's the correct word. It's not the matter of penalizing anyone for not playing the 100% flavour, but for assuring, that 100% means really the toughest gameplay, and that 100% means 100%, not 105% nor 95% (in other words, that 100% means always the same).

From now on I'll state "101% realism settings" in my sig instead of "100%". :)

[Karl-Heinz Jaeger]

I leave 'No Map Contact Update' off and also allow my Weapons Officer to gather information too but I don't consider it a 'cheat' or unbalanced, and heres why. Anytime I spot a ship or convoy, I ALWAYS manually plot its course and speed. I maneuver the boat ahead of the contact, and move into a good firing position all based on my calculations.

Then I decide based on target value, how the attack will proceed. Night surface? Dusk submerged? If I attack on the surface, my Weapons Officer sets up and fires the torpedoes, I get the boat into position. If I fire submerged, then I do everything myself, speed, AOB the works.

This is to simulate practicality, no U-boat Kaleun had to perform all of those tasks himself and it takes away from the game for me to have to. Reading Iron Coffins, when Werner is Exec of U-230 under Captain Siegmann it struck me how Siegmann would maneuver the boat but leave the firing to Werner as the Exec when they attacked on the surface. This is how I work my attacks, the downside is my Exec isn't as accurate as I can be myself but thats the risk I take. On the flipside, when attacking submerged the Captain is the one who calls out distance, speed, AOB from his position in the conning tower at the attack periscope. This is why I input everything manually when attacking at depth.

[melnibonian]

I do not play at 100% realism as I cannot be bothered to do manual targeting and identification (everything else is on btw). I get a bit frustrated with SH3 for not allowing me the same renown as the 100% guys but unfortunatelly there is nothing we can do about. I chose to play the game the way I like it and I accept these downsides. I do agree though that if you play with too low realism settings is an enjoyment killer, but each to their own I guess.

[danlisa]

I get a bit frustrated with SH3 for not allowing me the same renown as the 100% guys but unfortunatelly there is nothing we can do about.
Yes there is.:up:

Give me a 'mo & I'll post the thread.

Edit - :damn: Can't find it. But basically, there is a cfg file which applies the percentage to each 'realism' factor. You need to find it (at work at the mo) and change the percentages for the items that you don't use to 0.

A word of caution, the total of all of these must equal 100.

For example, If you don't use Manual Targeting, change the value for this to 0 and add it to Dud torpedoes. Continue like this until the options that you dont want to use all equal 0 but their original value has been added to another item. Also, if you want to use the external cam and not get hit for % points do the same.

Mel, if you're not happy doing this then I can sort you out. That's if someone doesn't come along and explain it better.

[Chaotic42]

No one else plays on 26% realism? :rotfl:

[Mooncatt]

I do not play at 100% realism as I cannot be bothered to do manual targeting and identification (everything else is on btw). I get a bit frustrated with SH3 for not allowing me the same renown as the 100% guys but unfortunatelly there is nothing we can do about. I chose to play the game the way I like it and I accept these downsides. I do agree though that if you play with too low realism settings is an enjoyment killer, but each to their own I guess.

i agree playing on low realism is a bit boring but ideal for beginers though.
i cant remember what realism i play on. the only thing i dont have ticked is manual targeting, ext. cam and contact updates so i think its quite high. i keep meaning to try manual targeting but it all seems complicated even with the tutorials peeps have posted here

[melnibonian]

Mel, if you're not happy doing this then I can sort you out. That's if someone doesn't come along and explain it better.
Dan thanks a lot for that. I'll catch up with you on TS later on and we'll talk about it. I would like someone to show me how to do things in case I mess up my beloved GWX;) :D

Thanks again I really appreciate this:up:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

It's not as much complicated as it seems at first glance. It's only like wasting 20-30 torpedoes and then you know almost everything about firing them accurately. :)

But I think we lost the point. This thread was certainly NOT meant to be another discussion about what realism setting is the best, or which option is better than another. :) What I ask is to make "no map contact update" option not equal to '0%' in realism, but some grater value (at least 1%, but I personally think it should be much more).

If it's too much trouble to change this one settings (then you have to adjust the others so that they sum to 100 points total), maybe making to highest total possible HIGHER is a choice? Let's say the max is 105%, and with map contact updates it'd be 100% 'only'? :)

I don't care if you get 100% of your renown when playing at lower realism settings. If you want to get 100% renown, get it and enjoy your game as much, as I and others do. It's all for fun, any way you play it. :)

[zzsteven]

data/Cfg/GameplaySettings.cfg Scroll the bottom to the "RealismPercentage" block, change it to what you want. The numbers must equal 100.

Roll back Commander first.

zz

[Jimbuna]

:roll: :arrgh!:
:rotfl:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Hmm... :)

[Sailor Steve]

I hope I can explain this properly. In stock SH3 'Map Contact Updates' does cost a large chunk of 'Realism', but it also gives a huge amount of information that no real captain could ever have.

NYGM (I know GWX was mentioned but this is important)...NYGM intentionally changed the 'Realism' loss to zero because it included the Assisted Plotting Mod. This mod removed all automatic updates anyway, and replaced them with a believable amount of information. It gave you a blank map which would reveal all the ships you could see, but only one at a time when you passed the cursor over them. Even then you would only see a circle with the tag 'Unknown', unless you had specifically targetted that ship with the periscope or UZO, then the information would appear with the targetted circle. Also, hydrophone contacts no longer had a solid line that ended at the exact distance of the target; they now were dotted lines that went all the way to the edge of the map. The NYGM devs felt that this was the truly realistic way to go, so they made 'Map Contact Updates' cost zero 'Realism'. I agree.

I have no idea what method is used in GWX, since I can't currently play. If it includes 'Assisted Plotting Mod' as described here then it really shouldn't cost anything. If not, then you're right, it should cost something.

[Lanzfeld]

Like Sailor Steve said:
I think the assisted plotting mod is the best answer to this problem of too much info. I hope somebody makes it GWX friendly by the time I try GWX at the end of the month.

The other option I may try is turning map updates off and just estimating everything from my eyeball and firing spreads. This would certainly cut down on the high tonnages we are seeing.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Like Sailor Steve said:
I think the assisted plotting mod is the best answer to this problem of too much info. I hope somebody makes it GWX friendly by the time I try GWX at the end of the month.

The other option I may try is turning map updates off and just estimating everything from my eyeball and firing spreads. This would certainly cut down on the high tonnages we are seeing.

I don't know about anyone else, but I play with external camera on (for screenshots and eye candy; the graphics are amazing and a delight to watch at times) and manual torpedo off. All my intercepts and calculations I do myself. Granted, it was still early years for my one patrol (SEP40 -JUL41) but I still managed to sink just under 361,000 tonnes before being transferred to train.

I'm sure running with map updates off will cut down on high tonnage, but that's also not needed to have decent patrols either. If you really want to trim down the 'fat' :p go to full manual targeting. Now that's a challenge!

[Lanzfeld]

I always do full manual targeting. I never miss.

I never miss because I setup my solutions with the data that I plot using the assisted plotting mod.

[Scheisskopf]

with the no map contact update thing checked do you still get ship updates on the map with no information or do you get nothing and are just lucky if a ship or convoy shows up?

i play on 100% realism, manual targeting and all that crap but ive never had the "cajones" to do the no map update thing. :-?

Schkpf :-j

[raduz]

To Scheisskopf:
I already wrote this somewhere else but I have to ask again: what the heck is Tzyczkchevczyhevi??:o

[Scheisskopf]

a ridiculously long name that i came up with for a hometown in slovakia

im acutally from the US, but im only a 3rd generation american and my family is strongly slovakian. that town/village name actually is a close spelling of the town/village where my ancestors lived before they came here, but i just added a bunch of c's and z's to make it look funny and really long, plus i wanted to see if anyone really noticed it

but now that everyone knows, im changing it to my real hometown, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

[raduz]

take mesto nepoznam.
I dont know such town.

[Ducimus]

Well, as stated you can always change the realism values to what you feel is approrpiate.

Why did GWX not penalize more on no map contact updates? I can only guess, but i beleive the general theme was to make the game accessiable to everyone. To strike a balance between realism and gameplay, always a precarious proposition as there are many definitions for those terms.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

The other option I may try is turning map updates off and just estimating everything from my eyeball and firing spreads. This would certainly cut down on the high tonnages we are seeing.
Not necessarily. I've never used the contact updates and I still manage to sink as much as 175k, 104k and current 104k + 9 torps left with my IXB. :) But that needs tons of patience, caution and precise plotting.

with the no map contact update thing checked do you still get ship updates on the map with no information or do you get nothing and are just lucky if a ship or convoy shows up?
Yes, you still get the radio reports from time to time, about ships, convoys and task forces.

take mesto nepoznam.
I dont know such town.
Bo nie ma takiego miasta. :)
Cause there is not such a city.