How effective are CM's?

[Captain Nemo]

Decided to fire up DW (first time in several months) and play a quick ASW mission in an LA class boat. Managed to pick up the enemy sub fairly quckly using both sphere and towed array. Got a good solution at around 5,500 yards and decided to fire a MK48 active torpedo at the enemy enabling after a run of about 4,500 yards. Within about 15 seconds of launching the enemy sub fired off a snapshot. I decided to run away from the enemy torp at about 24 knots whilst retracting my towed array at around 800 feet depth. Launched a passive and active CM. After about a minute I launched another couple of CM's and did a 90 degree course change and went very deep at 1,500 feet. Then the pinging started. From looking at the active intercept in sonar it looked like the torp had acquired my boat and was heading straight towards my stern. At this point I decided to launch two active CM's and do another 90 degree course change in the hope of throwing off the torp. No luck there, the torp changed course and is still on my tail. Launched two more active CM's and another 90 degree course change, towed array is now reeled in so increase speed to 32 knots. Pinging is now more intense and rapid than ever and torp is still homing in on me. As a make or break I decide to launch two more active CM's and another 90 degree course change. Managed the turn then its all over I'm heading to the bottom.

Whilst this is all going on my MK48 has acquired the enemy subs CM and is heading for the surface. Torp passes CM after broaching the surface and re-acquires and heads deep. After about a minute the enemy sub is heading for the bottom. Some consolation at least.

Anyway my question is how effective are CM's? The AI one seemed quite effective even though the end result was the same. In my case I launched several CM's but none of them seemed to have any effect whatsoever on the enemy torp. Replay confirmed this. I'm using LWAMI 3.02 and am patched to 1.03.

Nemo

[Dr.Sid]

In both stock and LWAMI torpedo homes on the nearest contact. If it is CM, it with some random chance skips to next contact. It also somehow depends which contact (you or CMs) will enter torpedoes sensor cone first.

So what works is:
1) drop more then one CM .. they have some chance of being ignored. Against AI there is no need to drop (or even load) passive CMs.
2) Keep evading away from the torpedo. Torpedo must see the CMs first.

LWAMI adds yet one more trouble. Torpedo in LWAMI does not explode on CM and will try to reaquire. But it can be fooled into direction you want.

Example tactic: turn away from the torpedo. While doing slight 45 degree turn drop 3 CMs (or better more) to create CM path. Then turn hard right and away .. torpedo will home on first, second and then third CM .. and will continue in last direction (slightly to the left) .. while you went to the right.
But situations really vary a lot and I don't know any universal tactic.

But don't forget what was said earlier .. doing 2 hard turn may take you closer to the torpedo .. always start by leaving CM as a bait between you and the torpedo. Try to know EXACTLY where the torpedo is. Also don't panic .. pinging does not mean torpedo is homing on you. Against human also consider that they can shoot without knowing your position just to scare you out .. passive CM can be easily TMA-ed because the speed of CM is known to be zero. Full speed is most of the time not needed. Cavitation also seems to attract torpedoes more.

Best tactic is still the same: avoid being shoot at. And when it happens, clear the area before the torpedo is there.

[Molon Labe]

CMs are most likely to lure a torp when the torp's seeker is "dragged" across the CM by the subs course change. It's entirely possible that your pattern could have done that, but it isn't clear that each turn had that potential. Instead of dropping and making 90 degree turns, I suggest an initial turn away from the torp, but offset by a small angle (10-30 degrees). Release the appropriate CM (not both kinds), wait a few seconds, then turn on a new course behind the decoys. As the torp turns to the new intercept course, the seeker will sweep across the decoy and it might acquire.

Dr. Sid is correct in stating that it's a good idea to have a line of decoys such that another decoy is in position to attract the torp. It's very important not to be on the other side of the decoys when the torp comes through, having such a line buys you more time to move away.

Torp evasion in LW/Ami is extremely difficult. ADCAPS and UGST's are like mad dogs; once they get a bite, they don't let go. However, the seeker ranges of the torpedoes are shorter, and it is easier to go undetected. By far, your best options are to (First) not get shot at, and (second) to evade the torpedo by clearing datum and preventing an acquisition. Keep in mind that a human opponent can set the torp to turn in your direction after passing the decoys though, so if he's still alive and listening, you might be screwed no matter what (unless you've got a Seawolf, maybe).

If you think 3.02's bad, give 4 a try. Some advanced torpedoes are more likely not to acquire decoys, and many have preset/programmed re-acquisition modes to make the torp "smarter" when it comes out the other side of a decoy screen! This capability is offset by the fact that the wires get cut after some distance. Always a balance!

[Captain Nemo]

Best tactic is still the same: avoid being shoot at. And when it happens, clear the area before the torpedo is there.

Thanks for the replies and advice. I agree, Dr Sid, prevention is better than cure. Although I must admit I did enjoy trying to outwit that torpedo.

Nemo

[Madman_GNSF]

Whenever I have active torps on me - I change depth to just above the layer - or go shallow. When the pinging gets intense, I drop 3 CM's wait a few seconds then turn hard 90 degree's away and change depth to 9999 feet. This make my boat dive very fast. I have used this tactic a lot and it works i would say 95% of the time. (remember to change depth back to 1900 or so..lol)

Also, in single player I fire torpedo's at myself for testing. I confirmed this tactic works very well after watching my own torps go after the CM's and not me.

The only time i have trouble is against an experienced diver who turns the torpedo around. The Computer can't do this.

When this happens I just keep going back and fourth reusing the same CM's.

LT Madman TF74
GNSF

[Captain Sub]

special forces are the most effective CM's btw.

[Molon Labe]

special forces are the most effective CM's btw.

Does anyone know if "the Hitman" is off for a week?
Because I really, really, want to go there.
But I know I shouldn't.

[Enigma]

Does anyone know if "the Hitman" is off for a week?
Because I really, really, want to go there.
But I know I shouldn't.


I'm lost.

However, I've found that turning my boat to the complete opposite direction of the incoming torpedo, going to flank speed, andf going deep works. As soon as your tail is turned, relase a set of CM's. Run at speed for a while., then make a 90 degree turn and listen. She still coming? Back 90 degrees to where you were, flank, CM's...repeat. Works well for me.

[Captain Nemo]

Whenever I have active torps on me - I change depth to just above the layer - or go shallow.

In my case there was no layer to hide behind, I'd already checked. The problem with going shallow at high speed is that you cavitate but I suppose if they are active torps that are in pursuit this won't be an issue unless someone else is out to get you as you will be very noisy and easy to detect.

Nemo

[Madman_GNSF]

Whenever I have active torps on me - I change depth to just above the layer - or go shallow.

In my case there was no layer to hide behind, I'd already checked. The problem with going shallow at high speed is that you cavitate but I suppose if they are active torps that are in pursuit this won't be an issue unless someone else is out to get you as you will be very noisy and easy to detect.

Nemo

True. Well the idea is to give yourself room to manouver. You can start this manouver from deep then go shallow. If there is a layer I prefer to use that. Also I dont mind cavitating if the torpedo's already has me acquired.

LT Madman TF74
GNSF