U.K Super Database

[STEED]

As most of you folks here in the U.K know that the Government dropped the super database on the ID Card issue on the grounds of cost, but now they want to go ahead with another one? So is this a cheaper one and what's the deferents from the ID Card one they dropped, after all it's still snooping on you and I.

Fraud fears over super-database (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6345965,00.html)

[danlisa]

Damn, STEED, you're fast. Are you subscribed to a RSS feed for the news? I've only just read this 5 mins ago.

It's something we've come to realise about this current government, they manage to get things through a back door.:nope:

[STEED]

Damn, STEED, you're fast. :nope:

I put it down to having three cups of coffee today.

[baggygreen]

So, not having seen many of the plans or anything for this, whats the big deal if the govt wants to put into place an ID card? Provided it was only particular info, why is there a problem, can someone inform me?

[STEED]

can someone inform me?

Read these old threads

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=101099

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=98091

[baggygreen]

Following a latenight skim, it seems the main issue is that of all your data being in the one spot. This would surely only ease a task which is already complicated? atm, a person could research your details and get them in a few hours, maybe a day. This would provide them within minutes (if i understand correctly).

As for police stopping you all in the streets etc, i dont know the facts here. All i know is that you should only be arrested if there is due suspicion of a crime or it is known you committed it. As to the example of being stopped and ID'd on the street, thats pushing it i think. We have cops stop us for a chat, but nothin more than bein friendly..

[STEED]

Following a latenight skim, it seems the main issue is that of all your data being in the one spot. This would surely only ease a task which is already complicated? atm, a person could research your details and get them in a few hours, maybe a day. This would provide them within minutes (if i understand correctly).

As for police stopping you all in the streets etc, i dont know the facts here. All i know is that you should only be arrested if there is due suspicion of a crime or it is known you committed it. As to the example of being stopped and ID'd on the street, thats pushing it i think. We have cops stop us for a chat, but nothin more than bein friendly..

Your info will be open to abuse and makes it a lot more easy for those who would abuse it. And yes we do live in a police state as of Jan 2006 so you ask why are they not going around arresting people? That's because our courts are ruled by liberals and the E.U. human rights act which is the criminals best friend.

[baggygreen]

So i just wanna clarify what the main concerns are, just to make sure they're right in my mind.

one is that it will make the abuse of your personal details easier, because it is in one place rather than needing to search through several different places to gather it?

two, the cops (bobbys, sorry) do actually have the right to detain you for nothing now, and thats why you say its a police state? If thats right, then hrm, i do find it a bit tough to agree to. I do recall that the laws were changed to arrest people and hold them for a longer (indefinate?) period for suspicion of terror charges... is that a part of this?

third n finally, a question - if you arent a part of the EU, then why is it that you're bound by the EU human rights legislation? In fact, why does the EU even have human rights legislation, given as each participating nation already had it to some degree.

:88) :88)

[STEED]

Big Brother row as 400,000 civil servants win right to snoop
UK Daily Mail | September 14 2006 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=405067&in_page_id=1770)

A vast database containing a file on every man, woman and child is being planned by the Government in a 'sinister' expansion of the 'Big Brother' state.
Personal information containing details of every aspect of an individual's life will be available to 400,000 Whitehall civil servants and council workers.
Lord Falconer has ordered privacy laws to be watered down to allow the plans to be forced through.
The plans would allow anyone working for a public body to monitor everything from an individual's driving licence record to whether they had paid their council tax on time.
Critics warned that allowing sensitive financial information to be viewed by all public bodies would leave it wide open to identity fraud. And pensioners who take stands against soaring council tax bills by refusing to pay could have their rights to pension credit withdrawn.


Information is power and power is control. The trouble is that power is open to abuse.



Police gain greater arrest powers
Sun Jan 1, 2006 9:34 AM GMT

LONDON (Reuters) - Police will be able to arrest anyone for any criminal offence, including minor misdemeanours such as dropping litter, under new laws which come into force on Sunday.
Until now police have had the power to arrest only those suspected of committing an offence carrying a sentence of at least five years in prison.
The new law requires only that the police have reasonable grounds for believing that a person's arrest is necessary. This can include a suspect's refusal to give their name and address.
The changes are part of the Serious and Organised Crime Act 2005, which removes the distinction between "arrestable" and "non-arrestable" offences.


It's a police state, granted not an out right one as I pointed out the courts are full of liberals.


To answer your other point in the early 1970's the United Kingdom join the European Common Market which in turn became the European Union, so yes we are a member of the EU.

[baggygreen]

thanks mate

Im about 80% behind the police laws, i think a crime ought to be treated as such - there wouldnt be a law against something if there wasnt a reason for it, but i also like to think commmon sense would be applied ie in the littering example.

Power in that manner is ridiculous. what possible need could there be for every one of those 400,000 public servants to have access to everyones details. While i dont think in ID card is a bad idea per se, i do think that as you've said, the manner in which its proposed is absolute stupidity. Way too open to abuse.

n cheers for the EU answer too mate, much appreciated

[Kapitan]

I dont mind the data base for criminals but not for us normal people!

The con in london is you get cheap fares if you buy an oyster card but the thing is its a tracking device so all they have to do is run a scanner over your card and they know exactly where you have been!

Its just so degrading, to get from the depot to my first road on a monday morning i pass 96 cameras in hackney alone on a 5 mile strech in a day i will pass around 300 cameras easily (not counting the ones ive already passed).

You cant even take a **** in this country without a camera watching you these days.

[KevinB]

http://www.infowars.net/articles/january2007/170107Blair_legacy.htm

[STEED]

The con in london is you get cheap fares if you buy an oyster card but the thing is its a tracking device so all they have to do is run a scanner over your card and they know exactly where you have been!

Your true to a point Kap, if you bought the card from ticket office or a machine they know where the card has gone from A to Z but not the person who used it. I am not sure but I think if you buy the season oyster cards they do know who you are and of course where you have been.

[Captain Nemo]

The con in london is you get cheap fares if you buy an oyster card but the thing is its a tracking device so all they have to do is run a scanner over your card and they know exactly where you have been!

Your true to a point Kap, if you bought the card from ticket office or a machine they know where the card has gone from A to Z but not the person who used it. I am not sure but I think if you buy the season oyster cards they do know who you are and of course where you have been.

You are correct Steed, unless of course you register the card online, which they encourage you to do in order that you don't lose out should you lose the card. I have my annual season ticket on mine and they can track where I've been. But thats not that interesting really Upney to St James's Park five days a week!