The Laymens Manual Targeting Tutorial

[Reece]

Hi, well I said I would do it so here it is:
http://files.filefront.com/Laymens_manual_TDC_Tutorrar/;6516638;;/fileinfo.html
There were too many pictures to fit here, so I decided to make a a downloadable manual in wordpad format. I tried all different ways to get here & my math skills aren't all that good so the final method I feel is about the quickest & easiest method to do the calculations. Both the "Map Update" & "WO assistance" turned off, and was still relatively easy,:D now if I can do it anyone can!:88)
Hope this is of value & if there are any problems/errors please let me know.:up:
Cheers.

PS. If there is any other tutorial out there, like this, it is purely coincidental.

[dertien]

Hello Reece,

I had a look at your tutorial and it's complete but I have some remarks, if you don't mind.

Aob is superbly documented. but is it necessary?

I have this to say: I have found the method you use to determine speed, which is the stock way of determining speed in SH3 to be very inaccurate. That's why I moved to Wazoo's way of determining speed.

You can determine speed in a number of different ways, which IMHO is the most important figure you need to get torps on target, together whith the bearing , while AOB can be pretty much guesstimated.

I don't think you will have the time to compute with pinpoint accuracy different target's AOB's when in a convoy.

Furthermore Dönitz instructed his men (if possible) to fire at a target within 600 m range, and with an AOB of approximately 90° Stb or Pt, as the torpedo detonation pistols were very unreliable at the time.

Now to guestimate the AoB:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9540/mantdcct4.jpg

Imagine the AoB dial with the point of the needle towards the 'zero' as the bow of the ship you're targeting and then turn the needle as how a person on the targeted ship would see your U-boat, then you have a pretty good guesstimate using your reference manual, how many degrees you should input there without having to do lengthy calculations per ship. I have tried this again and again and again, It's not a disaster if the AoB is not completely accurate. I say again: Speed and Bearing are very important.

Now consider you input beforehand the data you can influence yourself, such as Aob (you can set up your boat in order to have a 90 ° AoB on the target) and data you can look up in the reference manual, such as draft (depth of target in the water), then you know which things you can input without needing to calculate, so you can concentrate on more pressing matters at hand such as speed calculation.
Bearing can also be set to 0, remember that there will be errors, the further you offset your bearing needle to port or starboard. Zero bearing, (meaning the torp doesn't describe an arc but goes straight to the target) is still the best bearing you can have.

As for speed

There are different methods available:

Wazoos (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/)

and a very nice one by

Dimitrius (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103166)


and as you said übung ist das halbe leben.

[GT182]

Thanks Reece. :up:

Any tutorial help from anyone is always appreciated by all of us, even tho they might use different means to aquire the needed end result. ;)

[Morts]

how did you get the TDC in the periscope

[Hrvoje]

how did you get the TDC in the periscope

Yes, how did you?:hmm:

[Reece]

Dertien, I have tried Wazoos methods & I am not quick enough to to the calculations, by the time I have worked it out the target ship is miles away, his method is great for a math genius! This method is a lot simpler & works well, I have used this method with the Whizz Wheel for calculating the AOB & was thinking of adding a suppliment. Please, if you can do a tutorial, I am serious here, by all means do so, the only thing that matters is an easy way of setting up the TDC either directly or via the Stadimeter. Wazoos tutorial is too hard, call me stupid if you like :88) but that is why I sat down to simply apply the actual angles using compass & protractor, no formulas.:) Wazoos method (I have it printed out) uses a mod to SH3 adding another tool, I don't even know where to get the tool now, it is used in section II of his manual.:-?

[Corsair]

how did you get the TDC in the periscope
You guys should read on the Mod Workshop forum, there are at least two or three versions available with or without the 6 dials slideout since GWX came out...;)

[dertien]

how did you get the TDC in the periscope
Uuh, having a hard time finding the one I use but there's one in this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103248

and here's another (changes other things too) GWX compatible

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102761

and here's another one

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103116

They're all slideouts (read the readmes) mine is bigger and fixed, dunno how to extract it from my SH3 installation again, I open a mod and install it immediately from the zip file.

[dertien]

Sorry If I barged in on your post as an elephant in a china shop, ser.:oops:

his method is great for a math genius!
I am by no means a math genius, if I ever find a genie in a bottle, that's the first thing on my wish list, after Gwyneth Paltrow.

the only thing that matters is an easy way of setting up the TDC either directly or via the Stadimeter.
I agree,

We have 5 different figures to imput. Some need to be dead accurate, and some not IMHO. Ok when knowing this what do we need to input:

- Target Speed (needs to be dead accurate)
- Target Draft (needs to be very accurate)
- Target Distance (doesn't need to be accurate)
- Target Bearing (needs to be more accurate if being further away from your target)
- AOB (guesstimate is more than enough)

And then we need to tweak some things according to the situation, such as Torp speed, Salvo shot yes/no and Magnetic vs Contact detonation.

SPEED the constant figure and a pain in the @rse:
------------------------------------------------

I'm using this method for calm seas (stadimeter is usable) and this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103166) way in rough seas.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2210/speedcalculationez0.jpg


- You raise your perisope and take note of two things:

A) read the BEARING to the target ship in degrees (Precision Periscope Mod required download here (http://mpgweb.de/downloads/index.php?act=view&id=499) (will not mess with GWX nor stock install of SH3) and WRITE it down on a piece of paper. Yes, Yes real paper.:yep:

B) Measure the DISTANCE using the stadimeter (calm seas provided) and WRITE it down as well.

C) if you noted these two, IMMEDIATELY start the stopwatch provided. And lower the persicope.

Now a little word of explanation on the screenshot above:

Markierung 1: Position of my u boat engines dead going 0 knots
Markierung 6: position of the target just after measuring A and B and doing C. Just use a ruler and for 1675 meters for example draw a line that is 16.75 cm on a piece of paper.

D) keep an eye on the stopwatch and when it reaches 2.45' raise the periscope again.

repeat steps A and B and WRITE them down on a piece of paper.

Markierung10: postition of the target AFTER 3 minutes 15 secs. say this is 1500 m

connect both Markierung 10 and 6 and MEASURE the distance. if this is 600m then your target is going 6 Knots, if it's 700m your target is doing 7 Knots, if its 750 then your taget is (youve guessed it 7.5 knots)

No calculations involved here, using the 3.15 minutes rule.


A note on using the stadimeter. To correctly use the stadimeter using the reference manual, choose the CORRECT freighter/warship and use the stadimeter on the CORRECT mast. This can be a problem sometimes. Here's a picture of what I mean:

The correct mast you will need to pick using the stadimeter.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6516/referencemanualub1.jpg

DRAFT or manual vs magnetic detonation
---------------------------------------

Depending on sea state ( I would not advise using magnetic detonation in anything else than calm seas) I set the torp depth running for magnetic about half a meter more than the ships draft. In heavy seas I keep the AoB close to 90° before taking a shot and set the running depth of a torp at 5-6 meters for Merchants.

DISTANCE: torpedo arming itself beyond the imput range ?
--------------------------------------------------------

I never worry about this much, for example, if my target is at 2000 m I don't set it to 300 but at about 1200m or 1000m

BEARING
--------

Have one last look through the persicope/Uzo and be sure to keep this to a minimum to minimize errors. (the torp must describe a minimal arc after leaving the tube)

AOB
----

If your target looks like the munitions freighter depicted above then your AOB is 90° STB, set the needle accordingly and let her rip. If the pos is not 90° you can always wait, and use a combination of Hydrophone and Periscope to track the target until it has an approximate 90° AOB starboard/port position.

No complicated formulas were used and you have all the required figures for the manual TDC.

- Torp speed: I set them to fast (less likely the target will spot and evade my torp and only available with steam driven tropedoes)

-Salvo yes/no: 1 torp for the small merchants - 2 torps for the bigger merchants - all torps for the battleships


Wazoos tutorial is too hard, call me stupid if you like :88) but that is why I sat down to simply apply the actual angles using compass & protractor, no formulas.:)

I would by no means treat you such unkind words ser, and formulas are unnecessary. As you can see I don't use them either, the only thing I do is measure distances.

Wazoos method (I have it printed out) uses a mod to SH3 adding another tool, I don't even know where to get the tool now, it is used in section II of his manual.:-?
No tools needed, this can even be done (with some practice) with the stock tools.

[mr chris]

Thanks very much for this Reece:up:

[Jimbuna]

Very informative :yep:
Thanks Reece :up:

[Reece]

Thanks Dertien, I am going to print out your post & see what my bwain can do with it!:rotfl:
Thanks for the positive responses, spending too much time with my old K100, hopefully will get around to doing more tests soon with the data (from Dertiens remarks above) and come up with an improved version.:up:
Cheers.

[demowhc]

where can i get the attack periscope mod with the pretty picture on it? :smug:

[Jimbuna]

You could try his download page on his sig :hmm: