"Auto-aiming" for weak spots in GWX screwed up??

[VipertheSniper]

After doing 3 patrols in GWX, I noticed that on some ships the weak-spot "auto-aiming" doesn't work right, I think it was on the ammunition freighter, where I clicked that the torpedo should run into the forward ammunition depot, and when I fired it the stern ammunition depot was hit, I haven't had the opportunity to try if this works the other way round tho, e.g. when I aim for the stern depot, that the torp runs for the forward one, but on less than 1000m without the ship changing course or speed that's too much of an error in aiming. Second ship I noticed, where auto aiming seems screwed up is the second big cargo in the recognition manual, no matter which compartment I click at, the gyro angle won't change and at a range of 400m it certainly should, when I click first to aim for the rudder, and then for the fuel tank. When I fired the torp it hit the middle of the ship... if it would've happened only once I wouldn't even have noticed, but after I've sunk 4 or 5 from this ship type, always with the same procedure, going for the fuel tank first and hoping for a secondary explosion, and the torp always landing in the middle instead of a bit more forward, without any changes of the ships speed or course before the impact, I decided to investigate this matter, and saw that I can select any compartment I want the gyro-angle will always be set for the middle of this ship.

I know the obvious solution is to aim manually, but it's just convenient to use this.

Is there anyway to play with unlimited weapon supply? Because I'd like to create a mission with all merchants available to check this out

[bigboywooly]

Try it on one of the stock ships
It may be it doesnt work with the new modded ships
Maybe it doesnt work due to the rezoning for damage modelling

To be honest I dont think any of the GWX team knew that function existed so its not something done deliberately
If it does no longer work in GWX then its a cool side effect

[Boris]

You can auto aim certain spots? Never knew this, but I've never used noob targetting, ever.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

You can auto aim certain spots? Never knew this, but I've never used noob targetting, ever.

It existed even at 100% realism. In the vanilla version, if you were within 500 - 1,000 meters, within approx. +/- 20 degrees of 90 degrees AoB and with a gyro angle within +/- 30 degrees (all approx; not sure of the exact values) you would see different compartments (ex. fuel bunker, engine room) appear on the ship profile in the recognition manual. You could then click on which one you wanted and the game would automatically set your torpedo data to hit there.

[Ducimus]

You can auto aim certain spots? Never knew this, but I've never used noob targetting, ever.


Yeah, i used to do that when i first starting playing SH3. You have to get to within (under) 1000 meters to your target. Have Automatic TDC enabled, with the recognition manual open. You can acutally pick out where you want the torped to hit. Engine room, fuel bunker, ammo bunker, etc. Everythign except the Keel, which was represented, but didnt work right.

The sum of it is, you literally blow ships apart with 1 torpedo every time. Because a "targeted" shot like that, resulted in a critical hit every time, hence, KABOOM. I think this is what's called the AutoTDC's "silver bullet effect", or rather, all you have to do is have a torpedo hit one of those compartments regardless if you aimed for it or not. Instant critical hit, 100% every time, garunteed. Playing like this, if you have 22 torpedo,s your garunteed 22 sunken ships.

After awhile it got old, the game was too easy, and the tonnage highly unrealistc. I honestly felt embarrased for ever having posted a single "looky what i did" post having autoTDC enabled at the time.. It was my primary reason for shifting to manual targeting.

[Carotio]

Someone, not me, has investigated GWX zones.cfg file to put back this feature without altering the damage model of the ships or torpedo strength!

I haven't seen him posting this mod here, but he did at ubi forum...

[ref]

Someone, not me, has investigated GWX zones.cfg file to put back this feature without altering the damage model of the ships or torpedo strength!

I haven't seen him posting this mod here, but he did at ubi forum...

There's no need to strip the DM to do that, the auto-targeting boxes are defined in each ship cfg file
ie :
[2DCompartments]
UnitPos=75,6,366,22
NbOfComp=6
Name1=Propulsion
Area1=79,5,29,20
Name2=Keel
Area2=151,1,200,11
Name3=Fore Ammo Bunker
Area3=346,13,16,16,
Name4=Aft Ammo Bunker
Area4=149,13,16,16
Name5=Engines Room
Area5=233,13,62,16
Name6=Fuel Bunkers
Area6=297,13,26,16



Ref

[bigboywooly]

So basically for new ships the method employed at Ubi wont work I presume - ?
The 2d compartment coordinates are obviously not moved in new models to reflect the correct areas

[VipertheSniper]

You can auto aim certain spots? Never knew this, but I've never used noob targetting, ever.


Yeah, i used to do that when i first starting playing SH3. You have to get to within (under) 1000 meters to your target. Have Automatic TDC enabled, with the recognition manual open. You can acutally pick out where you want the torped to hit. Engine room, fuel bunker, ammo bunker, etc. Everythign except the Keel, which was represented, but didnt work right.

The sum of it is, you literally blow ships apart with 1 torpedo every time. Because a "targeted" shot like that, resulted in a critical hit every time, hence, KABOOM. I think this is what's called the AutoTDC's "silver bullet effect", or rather, all you have to do is have a torpedo hit one of those compartments regardless if you aimed for it or not. Instant critical hit, 100% every time, garunteed. Playing like this, if you have 22 torpedo,s your garunteed 22 sunken ships.

After awhile it got old, the game was too easy, and the tonnage highly unrealistc. I honestly felt embarrased for ever having posted a single "looky what i did" post having autoTDC enabled at the time.. It was my primary reason for shifting to manual targeting.

Well it seems a bit more complicated than that tho, on my last patrol I aimed for the rudder on one of those big cargos, I talked about above, that I already struck with my second last torpedo, so I fire my last fish for his rudder, manually, magnetic pistol, it explodes right below his rudder, yet the screw was still turning, when it probably shoul've been destroyed. the weather wasn't good, so I thought I'll force him to stop, and wait until I can finish him with my deckgun. He was sailing on merrily in the convoy and I had to let him go... So I guess there's more to it than just one hit kills, which btw, don't happen much anymore even with the original ships now in GWX

[ref]

So basically for new ships the method employed at Ubi wont work I presume - ?
The 2d compartment coordinates are obviously not moved in new models to reflect the correct areas

Exactly, as I never use auto targeting I never bother to correct the 2d compartments.
In any case as Ducimus pointed the chance of a critical hit is increased by ten (not allways evident on GWX because the critical chance in most compartments has been reduced), and also the torpedo allways hit that zone with it's maximum power, so it's a covered cheat.

Ref

[bigboywooly]

@ Viper

Possibly
Maybe the torpedo charge was weak on that fish


Shortly after dawn one morning, Looks sighted the Second Support Group through his periscope. As the sloops passed, he fired a torpedo in the general direction of the nearest - Starling. On the sloop's bridge, Walker spun around at an excited shout from a lookout to see the track of the torpedo approaching his stern, homing on the propellers. There was no time to increase speed or to take violent avoiding action. His mind raced.
Starling was doomed. With eyes fixed on the line of bubbles, he rapped out orders: "Hard aport....Stand by depth charges....Shallow setting....Fire." Suddenly the air was rent by two almost simultaneous shattering roars. The first came from the depth charges and the second, from the torpedo, which had gone off 5 yards from the sloop's quarterdeck. The depth charges had countermined the torpedo a second before it struck.

http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/images/walkerstarling3.jpg

This was an actual photo of the depth charges being set to "shallow" as the torpedo homed in


http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/walker.html

[VipertheSniper]

@ Viper

Possibly
Maybe the torpedo charge was weak on that fish


Shortly after dawn one morning, Looks sighted the Second Support Group through his periscope. As the sloops passed, he fired a torpedo in the general direction of the nearest - Starling. On the sloop's bridge, Walker spun around at an excited shout from a lookout to see the track of the torpedo approaching his stern, homing on the propellers. There was no time to increase speed or to take violent avoiding action. His mind raced.
Starling was doomed. With eyes fixed on the line of bubbles, he rapped out orders: "Hard aport....Stand by depth charges....Shallow setting....Fire." Suddenly the air was rent by two almost simultaneous shattering roars. The first came from the depth charges and the second, from the torpedo, which had gone off 5 yards from the sloop's quarterdeck. The depth charges had countermined the torpedo a second before it struck.

http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/images/walkerstarling3.jpg

This was an actual photo of the depth charges being set to "shallow" as the torpedo homed in


http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/walker.html

Had the pleasure to read that already, I don't think that merchant had depth charges tho... I guess I'll make a mission with as much ships as my PC can handle and fire manually for the screws, and see if this phenomenon is connected or I just wasn't lucky.

[bigboywooly]

lol I meant that even with the depth charge going off shallow close to the stern and the torp exploding 5m from the quarter deck there there was nothing wrong with Starling in so much that next they went flank and charged to sub
Eventually sinking it

but yes ordinarily you would expect the props damaged at least but as you said the weather wasnt good so maybe the torp exploded prem close by

Damn hope mercs dont have DC
Bad enough when they get guns

[VipertheSniper]

lol I meant that even with the depth charge going off shallow close to the stern and the torp exploding 5m from the quarter deck there there was nothing wrong with Starling in so much that next they went flank and charged to sub
Eventually sinking it

but yes ordinarily you would expect the props damaged at least but as you said the weather wasnt good so maybe the torp exploded prem close by

Damn hope mercs dont have DC
Bad enough when they get guns


Yeah I knew what you were getting at, but I've watched that torp going right where it should.

[TriskettheKid]

I've noticed this problem, too, but it seems to be sporadic. I remember it working on an attack against the HMS Hood while it was in port, but not against a Whaling ship. I remember it working against a large tanker, but not against some of the other ships.

However, the damage spots do show up on the Recognition manual, so all you really have to do is just aim the crosshairs of your scope where the damage spot is. I've been able to sink most ships pretty easily this way.

I think some of the bigger ships are more armored than they need to be, though. I mean, for a test, I saved a game when I had a perfect shot lined up on a BB. I tried different scenarios in regards to what methods of hitting the BB work best.

I found that one fish was not enough to seriously harm the ship, even when hit in the ammo bunker. Yet I found that even a second shot on the same location did nothing. Or a third.

I think, and I'm sure that the GWX devs would back me up on this, that it is better to sink the bigger ships through multiple holes. Though I do think that a hit on the ammo bunker might be able to do more damage (not critical, but why would two consecutive shots on an ammo bunker spark no fires or smoke?).

But in the end, if you really want to use the damage points, just try and "shoot from the hip" by aiming your scope in accordance with your recognition manual.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

[Samwolf]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

GWX ain't no arcade game :up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

GWX ain't no arcade game :up:

Thank you. Infact, I'd like to see that "feature" broken in ALL ships in GWX if it isn't too difficult to do.

Yes I have a bee in my little white hat.:arrgh!:

[TriskettheKid]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

I'm just wondering, though, there are critical hits still for those spots, right? The chance of such has just been reduced? I mean, I think that makes sense, considering that a shot to an ammo or fuel bunker should have a greater chance of a critical hit than such a shot to an engines room, or bow of the boat.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

I'm just wondering, though, there are critical hits still for those spots, right? The chance of such has just been reduced? I mean, I think that makes sense, considering that a shot to an ammo or fuel bunker should have a greater chance of a critical hit than such a shot to an engines room, or bow of the boat.

Simply put... we did not remove the opportunity for a critical hit to occur!

We removed the CERTAINTY that a critical hit would occur.

[Carotio]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

Okay, please don't get me wrong here:
GWX offers a lot of new things compared to stock, NYGM, RuB, IUB, Living_SH3, UWAC and whatever there are of modpacks out there!
Especially, I think of all the new eye candy things of GWX such as bridges, new units and other stuff, and I wonder of all of these new things have ever been offered as single mods through subsim or UBRS?

I know, I am somehow "special" in the eyes of GWX team or its users, because I say this: we are some people who like the new eye candy of GWX and other mods, but actually prefer some of the arcade game style from stock!
Please don't just say choose GWX or don't choose GWX!
This has been a main reason for me to make tweak mods, not to destroy anything, just to get the eye candy for an arcade game style! A kind of "kids version" as another subsim user expressed it once...

So, if you or any other team member won't "unfix" GWX features back to stock version, whether because of time or interest, do you then mind if I or any other do it then?

(If you cannot read between the lines, then this was actually a permission question...;))

[Paajtor]

Let me try to get this straight:

So I have a target locked (L-key) in F3-scope, range <1000m.
Manual Targetting OFF. (everyone should be able to play as he wants, right?)
I have only 1 torpedo left.
I want to lame my target, by hitting his propulsion-area, and surface to end with deckgun after coast is clear.
I get a solution on midship, open tube, unlock, aim for that stern-area, and fire a steam on highest speed, set on impact/magnetic at rudder-depth.
It's a preferred attack I like to use in those conditions (almost out of torps), and it's a 75% chance of a good hit, so there's a bit of luck involved...it's a matter of inches, if the torp explodes or zipps by.
After all, range and AOB changed a little bit, because I moved my aim along the enemy ship, back to it's stern...I just hope the magnetic setting compensates for this.
And if it works, I have a garanteed sink (of a T3, or other juicy target).
One torp midship won't give me that garantee, so I take the chance.

I haven't tried this tactic in GWX yet...but did use it in IUB and vanilla SH3.
So in GWX, this isn't possible anymore?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

Okay, please don't get me wrong here:
GWX offers a lot of new things compared to stock, NYGM, RuB, IUB, Living_SH3, UWAC and whatever there are of modpacks out there!
Especially, I think of all the new eye candy things of GWX such as bridges, new units and other stuff, and I wonder of all of these new things have ever been offered as single mods through subsim or UBRS?

I know, I am somehow "special" in the eyes of GWX team or its users, because I say this: we are some people who like the new eye candy of GWX and other mods, but actually prefer some of the arcade game style from stock!
Please don't just say choose GWX or don't choose GWX!
This has been a main reason for me to make tweak mods, not to destroy anything, just to get the eye candy for an arcade game style! A kind of "kids version" as another subsim user expressed it once...

So, if you or any other team member won't "unfix" GWX features back to stock version, whether because of time or interest, do you then mind if I or any other do it then?

(If you cannot read between the lines, then this was actually a permission question...;))

@Carotio,
Then you are being an opportunist and hijacking this thread.

To answer one of your questions above... NO! Much of what is in GWX was made by the GWX dev team and was not offered anywhere else. Too much to list here right now. There are literally THOUSANDS of elements that were made specifically for GWX.

Now SHOVE OFF and stop pestering me!

[bigboywooly]

As I understand it its not too hard to fix in the new ships
Not that hard to " break " it in the old stock ships either :rotfl:

Personally I cant see the point of playing so that you know exactly where the torpedo will hit so you get a one shot kill
May as well be playing stock

Learn to use manual targetting or take the chance your fish will miss
I never knew that facility existed but I do use auto targetting most times so you adapt - learn to fire early or late to get the shot you want

Cant remember too many pics of allied freighters with the kill zones marked on the side for uboats to aim at

But each to their own I suppose
If you like arcade sims that is :rotfl:

[bigboywooly]

Let me try to get this straight:

So I have a target locked (L-key) in F3-scope, range <1000m.
Manual Targetting OFF. (everyone should be able to play as he wants, right?)
I have only 1 torpedo left.
I want to disable my target, by hitting his propulsion-area, and surface to end with deckgun after coast is clear.
I get a solution on midship, open tube, unlock, aim for that stern-area, and fire a steam on highest speed, set on impact/magnetic at rudder-depth.
It's a preferred attack I like to use in those conditions (almost out of torps), and it's a 75% chance of a good hit, so there's a bit of luck involved.
After all, range and AOB changed a little bit, because I moved my aim along the enemy ship, back to it's stern...I just hope the magnetic setting compensates for this.

I haven't tried this tactic in GWX yet...but did use it in IUB and vanilla SH3.
So in GWX, this isn't possible anymore?

It isnt possible with the new ships and probably wasnt in GW either
As explained by Ref above the coordinates for the 2d compartments are in the cfg file
Am 99% sure not one shipbuilder changes those co ordinates for his new ship ergo it doesnt work
Stock ships it still works on as already posted above

[Carotio]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

Okay, please don't get me wrong here:
GWX offers a lot of new things compared to stock, NYGM, RuB, IUB, Living_SH3, UWAC and whatever there are of modpacks out there!
Especially, I think of all the new eye candy things of GWX such as bridges, new units and other stuff, and I wonder of all of these new things have ever been offered as single mods through subsim or UBRS?

I know, I am somehow "special" in the eyes of GWX team or its users, because I say this: we are some people who like the new eye candy of GWX and other mods, but actually prefer some of the arcade game style from stock!
Please don't just say choose GWX or don't choose GWX!
This has been a main reason for me to make tweak mods, not to destroy anything, just to get the eye candy for an arcade game style! A kind of "kids version" as another subsim user expressed it once...

So, if you or any other team member won't "unfix" GWX features back to stock version, whether because of time or interest, do you then mind if I or any other do it then?

(If you cannot read between the lines, then this was actually a permission question...;))

@Carotio,
Then you are being an opportunist and hijacking this thread.

To answer one of your questions above... NO! Much of what is in GWX was made by the GWX dev team and was not offered anywhere else. Too much to list here right now. There are literally THOUSANDS of elements that were made specifically for GWX.

Now SHOVE OFF and stop pestering me!

When I'm not asking, I'm accused of being a thief!
When I finally do ask, I'm pestering you????

I'm sorry! But this way, you just give the perfect pretext for me or anybody else NOT to ask in the future!
You said it yourself earlier! An apology means nothing if the behaviour continues!
Now, I broke my previous behaviour and DID ask, and what is the reply?
quote: "SHOVE OFF"

Somehow, I just knew something like this would be the answer... Anything I do from now on in your eyes is bad, whether I ask or not? Hmmm... :hmm:

Well, I'm not hi-jacking this thread in any way, cause I just give the info again:

@anybody else wanting the auto-aim back
yes, it has been done (but not by me!), the mod was only offered in ubisoft english forum, as far as I know!
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/3211059025

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Regarding the inability of players to the "auto-target" function mentioned here to hit specific critical locations on a ship:

1) If we broke it... I'M GLAD BROKE IT!!!

2) I see it as Ref sees it... I feel it to be a really rotten cheat. It allows for an automatic critical hit that delivers maximum force. (Personally I feel it is STUPID.)

3) As long as I'm the GWX project manager... It will remain as it is... disabled. Yes I feel quite strongly about this.

4) We will not build a modlet that fixes it.

5) Sorry if I sound harsh... feel free to complain... Don't bother trying to talk me out of it... and don't pester GWX Dev Teamers about a fix. I'm not backing up from this position. Even casual gamers can learn to live without this in GWX.

Okay, please don't get me wrong here:
GWX offers a lot of new things compared to stock, NYGM, RuB, IUB, Living_SH3, UWAC and whatever there are of modpacks out there!
Especially, I think of all the new eye candy things of GWX such as bridges, new units and other stuff, and I wonder of all of these new things have ever been offered as single mods through subsim or UBRS?

I know, I am somehow "special" in the eyes of GWX team or its users, because I say this: we are some people who like the new eye candy of GWX and other mods, but actually prefer some of the arcade game style from stock!
Please don't just say choose GWX or don't choose GWX!
This has been a main reason for me to make tweak mods, not to destroy anything, just to get the eye candy for an arcade game style! A kind of "kids version" as another subsim user expressed it once...

So, if you or any other team member won't "unfix" GWX features back to stock version, whether because of time or interest, do you then mind if I or any other do it then?

(If you cannot read between the lines, then this was actually a permission question...;))

@Carotio,
Then you are being an opportunist and hijacking this thread.

To answer one of your questions above... NO! Much of what is in GWX was made by the GWX dev team and was not offered anywhere else. Too much to list here right now. There are literally THOUSANDS of elements that were made specifically for GWX.

Now SHOVE OFF and stop pestering me!

When I'm not asking, I'm accused of being a thief!
When I finally do ask, I'm pestering you????

I'm sorry! But this way, you just give the perfect pretext for me or anybody else NOT to ask in the future!
You said it yourself earlier! An apology means nothing if the behaviour continues!
Now, I broke my previous behaviour and DID ask, and what is the reply?
quote: "SHOVE OFF"

Somehow, I just knew something like this would be the answer... Anything I do from now on in your eyes is bad, whether I ask or not? Hmmm... :hmm:

Well, I'm not hi-jacking this thread in any way, cause I just give the info again:

@anybody else wanting the auto-aim back
yes, it has been done (but not by me!), the mod was only offered in ubisoft english forum, as far as I know!

@Carotio
Negative, you are indeed hijacking the thread and you have basically just admitted to doing so.

You are simply trying to maneuver the situation to get what you want and to (yet again) make yourself out to be a martyr in the process. This is a continuance of the SAME OLD BEHAVIOR YOU'VE EXHIBITED BEFORE!

LOL. Same old same old vulture stuff from you.

"Mommy! Daddy! The big bad Grey Wolves are picking on me! They're being bullies! WAAAaaaa!!!"

You can continue to expect resistance any time you screw with GWX files.

Without our help, you won't be able to properly implement automatically targetable zones for the new GWX ships anyway.

[Carotio]

@Carotio
Negative, you are indeed hijacking the thread and you have basically just admitted to doing so.

You are simply trying to maneuver the situation to get what you want and to (yet again) make yourself out to be a martyr in the process. This is a continuance of the SAME OLD BEHAVIOR YOU'VE EXHIBITED BEFORE!

LOL. Same old same old vulture stuff from you.

"Mommy! Daddy! The big bad Grey Wolves are picking on me! They're being bullies! WAAAaaaa!!!"

You can continue to expect resistance any time you screw with GWX files.

Whatever...

Without our help, you won't be able to properly implement automatically targetable zones for the new GWX ships anyway.

As I wrote: I didn't do it, someone else did it, and it works! So don't need your help, as if you ever wanted to help...

[Kpt. Lehmann]

@Carotio
Negative, you are indeed hijacking the thread and you have basically just admitted to doing so.

You are simply trying to maneuver the situation to get what you want and to (yet again) make yourself out to be a martyr in the process. This is a continuance of the SAME OLD BEHAVIOR YOU'VE EXHIBITED BEFORE!

LOL. Same old same old vulture stuff from you.

"Mommy! Daddy! The big bad Grey Wolves are picking on me! They're being bullies! WAAAaaaa!!!"

You can continue to expect resistance any time you screw with GWX files.

Whatever...

Without our help, you won't be able to properly implement automatically targetable zones for the new GWX ships anyway.

As I wrote: I didn't do it, someone else did it, and it works! So don't need your help, as if you ever wanted to help...

Yawn.:|\\

[Venatore]

:dead: Zzzzzzzz

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q237/Venatore/Alternate/Image1.jpg

[VipertheSniper]

Could we please now stop the fighting here??? :down: :down: :down:

Take that somewhere else, PM's or whatever...

Back on TOPIC:

I know it's not hard to do my aiming with the periscope, but my point is, a hit in the rudder (which I did aim for manually, AOB was 130° or something), should most probably cripple the screw and the rudder, in the few cases it doesn't, well tough luck, but making it almost impossible to destroy rudder or screws, just by breaking "features" isn't my idea of realism.

I take it, it wasn't possible to take the auto-target zones out of the recognition manual? Maybe even in a way that it would be switched off with certain realism settings? apart from the fact that on the new ships those target zones aren't even assigned to the right areas...

I really don't know how the damage system works, so bear with me, if you find this suggestion too arcardey, but can't you at least assign the damage zone for the rudder to the rudder, and make those zones disappear in the recognition manual (if this is feasible)?

[Boris]

Whether or not the zones appear in the manual or not is totally independant from the actual damage zones of the ship.
The damage model itself is still fine and not broken at all. There is still a chance of crippling the engine, destroying the screw, hitting ammo or fuel etc. It's just that you won't be told where they are. Nothing has changed in terms of being able to hit certain areas of the ship, only improved. What is different, is that you are not 100% guaranteed to get the same effect every time. Hitting near the screw might destroy it, but there is a chance it might not.
It's all in the name of trying to create the impresion of a more realistic damage model, where nothing is certain.

[VipertheSniper]

Whether or not the zones appear in the manual or not is totally independant from the actual damage zones of the ship.
The damage model itself is still fine and not broken at all. There is still a chance of crippling the engine, destroying the screw, hitting ammo or fuel etc. It's just that you won't be told where they are. Nothing has changed in terms of being able to hit certain areas of the ship, only improved. What is different, is that you are not 100% guaranteed to get the same effect every time. Hitting near the screw might destroy it, but there is a chance it might not.
It's all in the name of trying to create the impresion of a more realistic damage model, where nothing is certain.

I guess I have misunderstood the post talking about the 2d compartments then... ok, nevermind my babbling then.

[SleazeyWombat]

Instead of 1000 meters, what about shortening the range to 400 meters or 350 or so? Instead of totally disabling it, make it much harder to use.

It would seem that at that short of a range, it would be very feasible to aim at a particular part of the ship, and hit within a meter or two of the aimpoint.

Is there a real life justification for this? Did sub captains aim at different points of a ship to try to achieve critical hits? Were there intelligence reports on some ships to say where the critical points were? Leave some ships without compartments defined, to simulate missing intelligence data.

I would assume that any captain could make good guesses where various critical compartments were.

[Sailor Steve]

I would assume that any captain could make good guesses where various critical compartments were.
I would too, but I know they didn't have pictures telling the mediocre ones where to shoot.

[Boris]

Instead of 1000 meters, what about shortening the range to 400 meters or 350 or so? Instead of totally disabling it, make it much harder to use.

It would seem that at that short of a range, it would be very feasible to aim at a particular part of the ship, and hit within a meter or two of the aimpoint.

Is there a real life justification for this? Did sub captains aim at different points of a ship to try to achieve critical hits? Were there intelligence reports on some ships to say where the critical points were? Leave some ships without compartments defined, to simulate missing intelligence data.

I would assume that any captain could make good guesses where various critical compartments were.

I would take far too long to fix it. Too much effort for something that comes up hardly ever. You're not going to be within 3 or 400 too often. At that range you don't need pictures telling you where to hit. Use your common sense as a real Kaleun would have done. The fact that it doesn't work is a feature rather than a bug.

[edjcox]

Mods can be made by anyone so if you want to mod the GWX game back to allowing easy critical hits do so.

There is only one caveat and that is that you are no longer sympatico with the rest of us using GXW....

Since th MP aspect of this game is so crude and little used Mod it so that it suits you and play it as an arcade type game.

There are some who want more challenge in the game....

Feel free to Mod it back and post it somewhere's for others to change if they desire...

Shouldn't bug anyone...

Say man keep as cool as you can, face piles of trials with smiles.......


:smug:

[VonHelsching]

There is a very easy way of targeting a specific area of the ship using auto target. Just line up your Uboat with the periscope "0" *without loking the target*. Then just press "fire". The torpedo will hit the exact spot of your periscope "0".

Von

[Kpt. Lehmann]

There is a very easy way of targeting a specific area of the ship using auto target. Just line up your Uboat with the periscope "0" *without loking the target*. Then just press "fire". The torpedo will hit the exact spot of your periscope "0".

Von

ExactoMUNDO!!! :arrgh!:

Only you don't get the cheesy automatic critical hit every time.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

OTLite:

Please guys stop telling others how they should play or how they should not. The game is for everyone — hard core realism lovers maneuvering and navigating manually, and those who prefer 'shoot and go' style with everything automatic in pink. I belong to the first group, but I would NEVER be so hostile and offending to tell someone he is worse or his play-style is. Because he doesn't target manually…

Also please stop telling people to use GWX as is or not to use it at all.

Kpt. Lehmann wrote in the preface (that I found very interesting to read): ”I guess I asked too many questions, pestered too many people, and irritated at least one who basically told me to go and build my own mod if I didn't agree with what was available...”. And now does the same, but says ”Go and try, but you cannot do this without my assistance, which you will not get”. Is that really how it should be said and done? I don't think so. Sad.

[hyperion2206]

OTLite:

Please guys stop telling others how they should play or how they should not. The game is for everyone — hard core realism lovers maneuvering and navigating manually, and those who prefer 'shoot and go' style with everything automatic in pink. I belong to the first group, but I would NEVER be so hostile and offending to tell someone he is worse or his play-style is. Because he doesn't target manually…

Also please stop telling people to use GWX as is or not to use it at all.

Kpt. Lehmann wrote in the preface (that I found very interesting to read): ”I guess I asked too many questions, pestered too many people, and irritated at least one who basically told me to go and build my own mod if I didn't agree with what was available...”. And now does the same, but says ”Go and try, but you cannot do this without my assistance, which you will not get”. Is that really how it should be said and done? I don't think so. Sad.

I think such behaviour is (sadly) just human. As long as your just a user you have your own oppinion and "pester" everyone to change certain things to *your* liking. But as soon as *you* build a mod to *your* liking you defend it if someone else criticizes your baby!:p:arrgh!: It's sad but I guess everyone would react like this.:shifty:

[ref]

Don't take this as a direct attack, but what most of the users are forgetting is that this is a free mod, made with a lot of love and work, spending a lot of nights without sleeping, and a lot of critics are harsch or bad intended, I wish to know how many users of SH3 (or any other game) spended that much time sending mails to the publishers company asking to make the game easier...
When you BUY a game and you don't like it you put it in a drawer and forget about it, I think that GW team has been very supportive and "user friendly", but after all we are only humans, and we deserve the right to get pissed from time to time...


Ref

[melnibonian]

Don't take this as a direct attack, but what most of the users are forgetting is that this is a free mod, made with a lot of love and work, spending a lot of nights without sleeping, and a lot of critics are harsch or bad intended, I wish to know how many users of SH3 (or any other game) spended that much time sending mails to the publishers company asking to make the game easier...
When you BUY a game and you don't like it you put it in a drawer and forget about it, I think that GW team has been very supportive and "user friendly", but after all we are only humans, and we deserve the right to get pissed from time to time...


Ref
Well said Ref:up: :up: :up:

[hyperion2206]

Don't take this as a direct attack, but what most of the users are forgetting is that this is a free mod, made with a lot of love and work, spending a lot of nights without sleeping, and a lot of critics are harsch or bad intended, I wish to know how many users of SH3 (or any other game) spended that much time sending mails to the publishers company asking to make the game easier...
When you BUY a game and you don't like it you put it in a drawer and forget about it, I think that GW team has been very supportive and "user friendly", but after all we are only humans, and we deserve the right to get pissed from time to time...


Ref

You're right but I think it's just plain wrong to be pissed and show it. Everyone gets mad once in a while, so if you do go punch a pillow or do whatever you need to get down, but don' rant because that is really childish.

[ref]

Don't take this as a direct attack, but what most of the users are forgetting is that this is a free mod, made with a lot of love and work, spending a lot of nights without sleeping, and a lot of critics are harsch or bad intended, I wish to know how many users of SH3 (or any other game) spended that much time sending mails to the publishers company asking to make the game easier...
When you BUY a game and you don't like it you put it in a drawer and forget about it, I think that GW team has been very supportive and "user friendly", but after all we are only humans, and we deserve the right to get pissed from time to time...


Ref

You're right but I think it's just plain wrong to be pissed and show it. Everyone gets mad once in a while, so if you do go punch a pillow or do whatever you need to get down, but don' rant because that is really childish.

You're missing part of the concept I was trying to explain (english isn't my native languaje), the normal critics/suggestions from the average user don't have a rude answer by any GW member, if you check the thread and look for the first posts, they all have been informative (besides some replies to specific "modders" with a long history of problems with the team), but if anybody repeatedly asks us to implement a feature (in the first place not a GWX related issue, if I'm not mistaken no ship bulder ever corrected the cfg file to reflect the zone changes) that is not compliant with the GWX filosophy, and besides that it'll take a LOT of time to make it and a minimal part of GW users would take advantage of it... you do the math...

If you need the autoaiming feature you've picked up the wrong mod, I'm not beeing rude with this concept, just being realistic, aiming is the least of your problems when using GWX.

Ref

[danlisa]

Everyone is entitled to their own style of play!

I can understand if players want the targeting zones replaced/updated.

However, I know that the GWX dev's have worked really hard to escape the label of 'Eye Candy', and they have!

We now have a realism mod! Probably as real as we can get without a SDK.

With this progression to Realism and the benefits of increased simulation we will have to abide by their interpretation of this. We can't ask them to re-introduce a part of SH3 which will almost certainly undo all of their hard work.

On a personal note, when I first started playing SH3 I used the auto-targeting of compartments too often and quickly became bored. Where's the enjoyment in being able to spot a ship, find it in the recog manual, line up your boat, fire, know that it is sunk & then move onto the next target.

The enjoyment for me now lies in approach and evasion, the sinking of tonnage is almost secondary(still nice though).:arrgh!:

We are afterall playing a simulation.

[melnibonian]

As Dan and Ref said everyone is entitled to their own style of game. It is understandable for people to ask modifications and changes to the game but that does not mean the GWX Devs will have to implement all those changes. After all it's their mod and they follow a particular approach and view of how they want the game to be. If one of the changes someone asks is not implemented there are three options in my opinion.
1. DIY. The person in question sits down and does the changes himself. I'm sure the devs will be more than happy to help and suggest alternatives.
2. Uninstall the mod (if the changes one wants are so fundamental for him) and try something else.
3. Keep playing and keep asking in a polite manner. That way a civilised discussion will occur and everyone will benefit from it. What someone should not do is to be rude and act like the Devs owe something to him.

I think that's the important issue here. The fact that people like playing with auto or manual targeting is of secondary importance.

Obviously that's just my opinion and I'm not trying to enforce it to anyone, so let's all enjoy the game and concentrate on sinking ships in any way we like;) :up:

[hyperion2206]

Don't take this as a direct attack, but what most of the users are forgetting is that this is a free mod, made with a lot of love and work, spending a lot of nights without sleeping, and a lot of critics are harsch or bad intended, I wish to know how many users of SH3 (or any other game) spended that much time sending mails to the publishers company asking to make the game easier...
When you BUY a game and you don't like it you put it in a drawer and forget about it, I think that GW team has been very supportive and "user friendly", but after all we are only humans, and we deserve the right to get pissed from time to time...


Ref
You're right but I think it's just plain wrong to be pissed and show it. Everyone gets mad once in a while, so if you do go punch a pillow or do whatever you need to get down, but don' rant because that is really childish.
You're missing part of the concept I was trying to explain (english isn't my native languaje), the normal critics/suggestions from the average user don't have a rude answer by any GW member, if you check the thread and look for the first posts, they all have been informative (besides some replies to specific "modders" with a long history of problems with the team), but if anybody repeatedly asks us to implement a feature (in the first place not a GWX related issue, if I'm not mistaken no ship bulder ever corrected the cfg file to reflect the zone changes) that is not compliant with the GWX filosophy, and besides that it'll take a LOT of time to make it and a minimal part of GW users would take advantage of it... you do the math...

If you need the autoaiming feature you've picked up the wrong mod, I'm not beeing rude with this concept, just being realistic, aiming is the least of your problems when using GWX.

Ref


I know what you mean and I agree: the devs are allways helpfull when I have a problem.:up: However I think that one should try to be firendly and patient even if someone makes you go mad. This forum is the friendliest I know and it should stay that way. Therefore everyone should stay friendly even if one is pissed off.:smug:

[bigboywooly]

Easier said than done sometimes

A chance to actually play the game would b nice
Since GWX release my post count has gone up by around 400+
Most of them answering questions already answered - ah the search function
Or helping ppl understand other things

and I have had the grand total of 2 patrols

Some of us are still working :damn:

[ref]

I know what you mean and I agree: the devs are allways helpfull when I have a problem.:up: However I think that one should try to be firendly and patient even if someone makes you go mad. This forum is the friendliest I know and it should stay that way. Therefore everyone should stay friendly even if one is pissed off.:smug:

I agree with you, although sometimes is difficult (and that's for me, maybe the most patient of the group) :roll:

Ref

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Just an hour ago, I finished the first FULL patrol for the sake of my own personal pleasure... in more than a year. I spent about 3-4 hours per day on my off-duty days to do it.

The funny thing is that I felt guilty for doing it... knowing there were many pressing issues regarding different things that users never see happenning in the background... and I felt guilty that I wasn't here answering questions.

No one here should EVER accuse anyone on the GWX dev team of not being responsive to the user. Just because we may not implement every cotton-picking suggestion thrown at us... doesn't mean that the idea wasn't at least considered.

DO YOU REALIZE how big the GWX download would be if we tried to put everybody's everything in it???

Yeah, I can agree with the idea of total stoicism and "not showing occasional anger" if we were getting paid to do what we do.... BUT WE AREN'T GETTING PAID LOL! We do it for the love of the game and because we are passionate about U-boats.

Now, I can't blame the oblivious joe-schmoe that just danced into the room for not knowing... but here is the deal:

More than a year ago, the GW dev team started out as the little guy in the corner working away while they all pointed and laughed. We've withstood ridicule, espionage, theft, accusations, stupid-as-hell flame wars, hundreds of man-hours of labor, sleepless nights, and survived very real personal crisis and tragedy to see this thing through. We've earned our right to stand here.

Still, we actively support the GWX user and assess problems on a continuous basis. Our guys sacrifice their "play-time" on a regular basis... so that you can enjoy yours if you decide to use GWX as your base-mod.

THEREFORE, when we give you a considerate answer that may include our opinion... You can JUST DEAL WITH IT or move along. If you want a team that is totally dispassionate when dealing with the whining of those quibbling over insignificant crap... you are barking up the wrong damn tree.

There are BUCKETS of things you can do without involving futher work from GWX modders to make your game easier... beginning with setting your "realism levels" selection IN-GAME!

By the time of our final update in the spring... ALL AUTOMATICALLY TARGETTABLE critical zones on GWX ships will be made non-functional.

Feel free to consider this an executive decision. (Yes I can do that... cuz I get all the grief that comes with wearing the white hat BUSTER!)

End of discussion.:stare:

Greywolves, please don't waste any more time on this issue.

[EDIT: We aren't telling anyone how to play their game. We are stating how we (the GWX Dev Team) choose to mod GWX.]

[heartc]

Holy $hit. I can tell you are pissed off, Kpt Lehmann. But why get so worked up about it. The demands some people make are ridiculous and this is plain to see for anyone with half a brain. "Everyone should be able to have his style of play yadayada". Sure. But it strikes me as...odd...when someone d/l 700+ MB of a mod which explecitely focuses on improving the REALISM of this SIMULATION, as stated in the manual, the readme's and in fact over half the internet, and then complains his favourite arcade feature is gone. "But I want just the Eye-Candy!" My advise: Delete GWX and install HL2. You got eye-candy. But leave simulations alone. If you ppl haven't realized, recent simulations coming out are dumbed-down by the devs as default more and more often already to account for the higher number of kids in the market today. Thank God when the game is then open enough for modders to jump in and mod it up to what once were simulation standards. The 90s of Harpoon, SHI, AOD, Falcon, Longbow etc etc and times where you actually had to type a few lines or - the horror - configure an autoexec.bat to play a game are long gone. Today every illiterate can use a PC and the internet, and it shows. I hear some screaming "Elitism!!111!!" No. Just facts.

Regards
heartc

[Corsair]

Holy $hit. I can tell you are pissed off, Kpt Lehmann. But why get so worked up about it. The demands some people make are ridiculous and this is plain to see for anyone with half a brain. "Everyone should be able to have his style of play yadayada". Sure. But it strikes me as...odd...when someone d/l 700+ MB of a mod which explecitely focuses on improving the REALISM of this SIMULATION, as stated in the manual, the readme's and in fact over half the internet, and then complains his favourite arcade feature is gone. "But I want just the Eye-Candy!" My advise: Delete GWX and install HL2. You got eye-candy. But leave simulations alone. If you ppl haven't realized, recent simulations coming out are dumbed-down by the devs as default more and more often already to account for the higher number of kids in the market today. Thank God when the game is then open enough for modders to jump in and mod it up to what once were simulation standards. The 90s of Harpoon, SHI, AOD, Falcon, Longbow etc etc and times where you actually had to type a few lines or - the horror - configure an autoexec.bat to play a game are long gone. Today every illiterate can use a PC and the internet, and it shows. I hear some screaming "Elitism!!111!!" No. Just facts.

Regards
heartc
Couldn't say it better myself...:up:
Ah the Dos souvenirs the name autoexec.bat brought back...

[melnibonian]

Just an hour ago, I finished the first FULL patrol for the sake of my own personal pleasure... in more than a year. I spent about 3-4 hours per day on my off-duty days to do it.

The funny thing is that I felt guilty for doing it... knowing there were many pressing issues regarding different things that users never see happenning in the background... and I felt guilty that I wasn't here answering questions.

No one here should EVER accuse anyone on the GWX dev team of not being responsive to the user. Just because we may not implement every cotton-picking suggestion thrown at us... doesn't mean that the idea wasn't at least considered.

DO YOU REALIZE how big the GWX download would be if we tried to put everybody's everything in it???

Yeah, I can agree with the idea of total stoicism and "not showing occasional anger" if we were getting paid to do what we do.... BUT WE AREN'T GETTING PAID LOL! We do it for the love of the game and because we are passionate about U-boats.

Now, I can't blame the oblivious joe-schmoe that just danced into the room for not knowing... but here is the deal:

More than a year ago, the GW dev team started out as the little guy in the corner working away while they all pointed and laughed. We've withstood ridicule, espionage, theft, accusations, stupid-as-hell flame wars, hundreds of man-hours of labor, sleepless nights, and survived very real personal crisis and tragedy to see this thing through. We've earned our right to stand here.

Still, we actively support the GWX user and assess problems on a continuous basis. Our guys sacrifice their "play-time" on a regular basis... so that you can enjoy yours if you decide to use GWX as your base-mod.

THEREFORE, when we give you a considerate answer that may include our opinion... You can JUST DEAL WITH IT or move along. If you want a team that is totally dispassionate when dealing with the whining of those quibbling over insignificant crap... you are barking up the wrong damn tree.

There are BUCKETS of things you can do without involving futher work from GWX modders to make your game easier... beginning with setting your "realism levels" selection IN-GAME!

By the time of our final update in the spring... ALL AUTOMATICALLY TARGETTABLE critical zones on GWX ships will be made non-functional.

Feel free to consider this an executive decision. (Yes I can do that... cuz I get all the grief that comes with wearing the white hat BUSTER!)

End of discussion.:stare:

Greywolves, please don't waste any more time on this issue.

[EDIT: We aren't telling anyone how to play their game. We are stating how we (the GWX Dev Team) choose to mod GWX.]
Well said Kpt:up: Harsh but fair if you ask me;) :yep: :yep: :up: