Mounting a 3.7cm SK C/30 on an IXC with a Turm IX/1 tower?

[Ducimus]

I've brought this up before, but i figured id ask again. Cause its one of those things i can't figure out, and i suspect it might be a 3d modelling issue (nodes n such). I also wondered if anyones tried it and ran into some brick wall that makes it impossible.

Now, as near as i can tell, historicaly, the IX/2 tower didnt become available until sometime in 1942. In SH3, IXC uboats have been starting with this tower in 41, when... historically speaking, it shouldn't be. If you look around for pictures, you'll find all sorts of them with an Turm IX/1 tower, and others with the 3.7cm SK C/30 flak gun as well.


Going into the basic.cfg to assign these objects (turm ix/1 and 3.7cm SK C/30 gun) to an IXC in 41 produces some intresting results when you try to man the flak gun. You'll get an undermanned heavy flak, with two crewmembers trying to man the one on the cigerette deck, one being in the "jesus pose".

Trying to shuffle them around, from what i can tell of the games behavior, it seems to be treating the IX/1 tower with the 3.7cm SK C/30, as an IX/3 conning tower. Meaning it seems to be wanting 2 cremembers on the cigerette deck, and at least two (possible more ) on the flak gun.


Now, what i can't understand is, why does this configuration (turm ix/1 w/ deck mounted gun) work for the IXB, and not the IXC? What is different about the IXB that allows this historical setup that the IXC files do not have?

[Ducimus]

The world may never know?

I wish i knew how to fix this. :cry:

[Mush Martin]

Dear Ducimus

The 37 mount has two seats the 20 mm mount has one seat

when you mount 20mm on 37mount it wont work cause it thinks its
missing 50 % of the crew.

when you mount 37 in aa mount I cant remember what happened

when you mount deckgun on 37 mount you get ammo type limits for
37 mm and although you have no deckgun crew. it will still work

however it will dissable two aa seats as they are considered now
part of the deckgun crew so the seats still appear on aa side in F7

what is needed is to change the mount type from whichever you dont
want to whichever you want not in cfg

but with hexeditor and once I have it mastered youll be the first to
know ive seen a similar techinique but am still taking hexedit 101

to facilitate these corrections in Uberboot mod.

MM:|\\

[Mush Martin]

oh yeah I forgot when you mount deckgun you get no usable sights
if its on Secondary type mount

the correction is to change the mount using hexediter
and correct cfgs to match.

then when you put a different gun on that zone your putting it on the
type of mount it was meant for then the crew slots are right and the seats are right and the ammo types are right.

MM

[Ducimus]

Well i can tell you that i vaguely remember looking at mounting/node names in the dat running a file comparision between the IXB (which works) and IXC (which doesnt work), and didn't notice anything.

[Mush Martin]

are you saying that it works differently for both subs?

[Mush Martin]

Its the mounts not the conning tower that determines and creates and interperets the crew positions and seemingly what sights and ammo.

[Mush Martin]

So let me get this straight

IXB when hull mounted aft 37 mm is replaced by what ? works.?

IXC When what is done doesnt work the same?

I think im not following you correctly.:hmm:

[Ducimus]

Ok. You know how the IXB has that single shot heavy flak gun?
It works/ is crewed correctly.

You can place the same tower (ix/1) on a IXC, and assign the same flak gun, and it will not work correctly.

Same gun, same tower, different dat file on uboat. I recall loading them both into (err pack3d?) and looking closely at the nodes and dont remember seeing any difference that i could find. Maybe i overlooked something, i must have.

[Mush Martin]

Try Directly comparing the IXB and IXC Eqp files
from the sub folders

eqp set up follows the "available" towers

so if you make a new tower available you
have to change these entries and apparently
do it in hex as well

thats the part Im stuck at and trying to learn
found the path just have to walk it.


MM

[Ducimus]

I've tried the EQP files. Near as i can tell, all it *seems* to effect is whats displayed in the musem. I could be wrong, but thats all i noticed by editing those.

[Madox58]

I can tell you, as many others can too, I'm sure.
Pack3d is not all incompassing.
It's a great tool! Don't get me wrong.
But there is SO much it does not tell you!
It drops leading 0's, doesn't understand other areas,
so doesn't show them or shows them wrong. Etc, Etc.
Hex Editing and learning the file structures and how they work
will get you what you want.
I've been studying hard for several months now and am still learning
neat little things!!

[Mush Martin]

I've tried the EQP files. Near as i can tell, all it *seems* to effect is whats displayed in the musem. I could be wrong, but thats all i noticed by editing those.
Negative You can change your equipment in the equipment files
by way of example when you examine one it will show

Heres a normal IXB eqp

;equiment cfg file, high level of detail

;coning with 2 AA mounts, A01, S01
[Equipment 1]
NodeName=Z01
LinkName=data/objects/Turm9c_1_hd
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19431231

;coning with 2 AA mounts, A01, A02
[Equipment 2]
NodeName=Z01
LinkName=data/objects/Turm9c_2_hd
StartDate=19440101
EndDate=19451231

;deck mount
[Equipment 3]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=105mm_UDeck_Gun_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19441231

[Equipment 4]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19450101
EndDate=19451231

; conning mounts
;firts AA Mount

[Equipment 5]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=20mmSingle_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19391231

[Equipment 6]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=20mmShield_Single_UFlak_High
StartDate=19400101
EndDate=19411231

[Equipment 7]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=20mmTwin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19420101
EndDate=19421231

[Equipment 8]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=20mmShield_Twin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19430101
EndDate=19451231


; conning mount
;second AA Mount

[Equipment 9]
NodeName=S01
LinkName=37mmM_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19431231

[Equipment 10]
NodeName=A02
LinkName=20mmShield_Twin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19440101
EndDate=19451231

;Snorkel

[Equipment 11]
NodeName=SNK
LinkName=NSS_Uboattype9_SNK_mask
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19430701

[Equipment 12]
NodeName=SNK
LinkName=NSS_Uboattype9_SNK
StartDate=19430701
EndDate=19451231


Heres the altered one from Uberboot

;equiment cfg file, high level of detail

;coning with 2 AA mounts, A01, S01
[Equipment 1]
NodeName=Z01
LinkName=data/objects/Turm9c_1_hd
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19431231

;coning with 2 AA mounts, A01, A02
[Equipment 2]
NodeName=Z01
LinkName=data/objects/Turm9c_2_hd
StartDate=19440101
EndDate=19451231

;third coning with 3 AA mounts, S01,S02,S03 This is new conning
[Equipment 3] entries must be
NodeName=Z01 made for each mount
LinkName=data/objects/Turm7c_4_hd in list below
StartDate=19380101 positions are listed
EndDate=19451231 in order you just put in
the mount designation
;deck mount and what choices of weaps
[Equipment 4] you want for that position
NodeName=M01 as options then move to
LinkName=105mm_UDeck_Gun_High the next position
StartDate=19380101 you must re sequence
EndDate=19441231 [Equipment #'s] to complete

[Equipment 5]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19451230
EndDate=19451231

; conning mounts
;first AA Mount

[Equipment 6]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=20mmTwin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19391231

[Equipment 7]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=20mmShield_Twin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19411231

[Equipment 8]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=20mmShield_Twin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19421231

[Equipment 9]
NodeName=S01
LinkName=37mmM_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 10]
NodeName=S01
LinkName=37mmTSA_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 11]
NodeName=S01
LinkName=105mm_UDeck_Gun_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231


[Equipment 12]
NodeName=S01
LinkName=20mmTwin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;second AA Mount

[Equipment 13]
NodeName=A02
LinkName=20mmTwin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19391231

[Equipment 14]
NodeName=A02
LinkName=20mmShield_Twin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19411231

[Equipment 15]
NodeName=A02
LinkName=20mmShield_Twin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19421231

[Equipment 16]
NodeName=S02
LinkName=37mmM_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 17]
NodeName=S02
LinkName=37mmTSA_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 18]
NodeName=S02
LinkName=105mm_UDeck_Gun_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231


[Equipment 19]
NodeName=S02
LinkName=20mmTwin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;third AA Mount

[Equipment 20]
NodeName=S03
LinkName=37mmM_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 21]
NodeName=S03
LinkName=37mmTSA_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 22]
NodeName=S03
LinkName=105mm_UDeck_Gun_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231


[Equipment 23]
NodeName=S03
LinkName=20mmTwin_UFlak_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231



;Snorkel

[Equipment 24]
NodeName=SNK
LinkName=NSS_Uboattype9_SNK_mask
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19431231

[Equipment 25]
NodeName=SNK
LinkName=NSS_Uboattype9_SNK
StartDate=19440101
EndDate=19440930

[Equipment 26]
NodeName=SNK
LinkName=NSS_Uboattype9_1_SNK
StartDate=19441001
EndDate=19451231




[edit] Sorry thats supposed to be a seperate paragraph but for some
reason I cant get it to recognize the spacings

[Mush Martin]

Any way you dont just change what appears in museum here

what you change is the original equip that comes with the boat
what is available as optional equipment for the boat
what conning towers are available to the boat
what years equip is avaliable to the boat
and provide nodes for equip to hook up


ie if I succesfully hexedit the correction for uberboot what happens is this

Uberboot now = no sights,no crewseats,wrong ammo type

If I successfully hexedit in the change to the mount and turn it from

S03 to M02 then what I will have is

Uberboot then= correct sights,three additional guncrew positions on
F7 and correct ammo types.

the mount supplies the gun i think?:|\\

Zones Nodes and Mounts and Equipment Need to be more clearly defined here

what hexediting does is it hooks it all up in the code more or less
completing the connections indicated here

but with out hexediting if you change your deckgun here and in cfg
to say a twin 4" AI the deck gun appears on your sub
(someone was asking how to put a 14" quad on there you go , go nuts)
however getting an AI gun working on the sub represented to
large a challenge for my limited modding experience at this
point so I made the decision to omit the twins on uberboot
and go with working sub guns set to salvo like the twin mount.

So no it doesnt just change whats in museum

try putting a quad 14" on the Deckgun slot
and set up an in game visual test
MM

What I have to learn is how to define M02 and its location
that I cant do in the configs

[Mush Martin]

Ok time for my first coffee now man I need a life.:doh:

[Mush Martin]

Can One of you more experienced types just leave a quick three point
defintion for the following terms, inexperience is holding me up here.

Zone=

Node=

Equip=

[Ducimus]

What i meant was, I tried editing the equip file. The only changed i noticed was what appeared in the muesum. I even went as so far as to swap the IXB's eqp file with the IXC's (renaming the IXB file to IXC version) - didnt work.

[Mush Martin]

What i meant was, I tried editing the equip file. The only changed i noticed was what appeared in the muesum. I even went as so far as to swap the IXB's eqp file with the IXC's (renaming the IXB file to IXC version) - didnt work.

You wouldve needed to clone that for it to work
but if you had it would have worked I think

MM

[Mush Martin]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img17-2-2007_9.jpg

[Ducimus]

Yeah ive thought about cloning, but im a little short on the "know how" in that department.

Nice VII/4 tower on that type 9. It's been done before.. kinda like a battlewagon against aircraft. err ohh errr, acutally . i dont recall seeing a deckgun on the aft deck before though :rotfl:

[Mush Martin]

Yeah ive thought about cloning, but im a little short on the "know how" in that department.

Nice VII/4 tower on that type 9. It's been done before.. kinda like a battlewagon against aircraft. err ohh errr, acutally . i dont recall seeing a deckgun on the aft deck before though :rotfl:

Eat em and smile their good for ya boy!:arrgh!:

[Mush Martin]

Yeah when I first started modding I had the virtue of not having a clue what
I was doing. it helped I think in someways as the impossible didnt intimidate me because I was unaware of it.:|\\

[Mush Martin]

Cloning and Hexedit Im learning now.
when I find out what works Ill let
you know.
MM:|\\

[Ducimus]

As modding goes, i can reverse engineer, figure out logic - and figure out how things work, but Hex editing is my weakness. I suppose someday i should force myself to look at it but the desire isnt there to that degree. The funny thing is, Hex editing was something i'd do with much zeal years ago. Nowdays, the desire to open up ye old hex editor is about on par with a trip to the dentist.

[bigboywooly]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3475/flakwagen24ty.jpg

'43 FlakWagen SuperSub (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40313&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=320df8cdb1c81fd5140d3d8d4bf614b1)

[azn_132]

Is there a download link for the FlakWagon u make BBW?

[Mush Martin]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3475/flakwagen24ty.jpg

'43 FlakWagen SuperSub (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40313&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=320df8cdb1c81fd5140d3d8d4bf614b1)

Thats weird The F7 screen in the link indicates its a VIIC/1 Tower?

My Mom Grandmother drives a tougher Sub than that!:rotfl:

So You are a Closet Uberplayer then?:arrgh!: Blasphemer!

No I like it!, I like it it's good.

Did you ever take it for a drive

ive done it but I dont get why that one shows VIIC/1

[bigboywooly]

Wasnt mine

Was done by Duke of Earl

Click on this link

'43 FlakWagen SuperSub (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40313&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=320df8cdb1c81fd5140d3d8d4bf614b1)

Will take you to the original thread from July 2005 :o

@MM
Yeah I took it for drive many moons ago
I found the more guns I added the more airraft attacked me
Once shot down around 30 Swordfish in the Channel in late 39 with it
Stock game of course

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3606/flagwagenc59sf.jpg

[Mush Martin]

You cad It might have helped me early on you were holding out on me.

LOL:doh:

[Mush Martin]

Wasnt mine

Was done by Duke of Earl

Click on this link

'43 FlakWagen SuperSub (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40313&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=320df8cdb1c81fd5140d3d8d4bf614b1)

Will take you to the original thread from July 2005 :o

@MM
Yeah I took it for drive many moons ago
I found the more guns I added the more airraft attacked me
Once shot down around 30 Swordfish in the Channel in late 39 with it
Stock game of course
My Best was 211 for a heavy air mission I built its the same architechture
as the mission included in your Neglected and dusty copy of Uberboot
but the one with 211 was much more heavily laden so reduced ubermission
by quite alot.
[edit] Screen bogging.
MM

[bigboywooly]

You cad It might have helped me early on you were holding out on me.

LOL:doh:

To be honest forgot all about it
I noticed the link in my favourites the other day when doing stuff for the info sticky

[Mush Martin]

You cad It might have helped me early on you were holding out on me.

LOL:doh:
To be honest forgot all about it
I noticed the link in my favourites the other day when doing stuff for the info sticky

Thanks for that again by the way it is a great resource
and more will come soon Jimbuna is due to put his in
this week he said.

MM

[bigboywooly]

No problem
probably deleted a load
Spent weeks searching for info when doing GWX

[azn_132]

Wasnt mine

Was done by Duke of Earl

Click on this link

'43 FlakWagen SuperSub (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40313&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=320df8cdb1c81fd5140d3d8d4bf614b1)

Will take you to the original thread from July 2005 :o

@MM
Yeah I took it for drive many moons ago
I found the more guns I added the more airraft attacked me
Once shot down around 30 Swordfish in the Channel in late 39 with it
Stock game of course

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3606/flagwagenc59sf.jpg

IM havin a hard time justin to add the UFlak connin tower on the IXB UBoat (1943).

[Mush Martin]

When I did it I did it on IXB(1939) so uber would be available for campaingns.

what seems to be the trouble azn

Mm

[azn_132]

When I did it I did it on IXB(1939) so uber would be available for campaingns.

what seems to be the trouble azn

Mm

Nvm, but how u add more deck guns inplace of Flak guns so I have a UCrusier like sub not a UFlak.

[Wolfehunter]

Hello master tweakers. I've been trying to restore IXC IX/1 conning tower and use the Heavy flak guns on the rear end of the deck. But as you already know there is a problem with one crew member not aligning with the heavy flak.
Photo below,
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff110/WolfeXhunter/Shot76.jpg

The dude has issues hehehe.

Z01_00=9 ; IX/1
M01_00=0
A01_00=8
S01_00=4
This part is easy.

The hard part is why I can't get it to look like IXB for IXC?

Here is some work I've posted. ubi is down this weekend.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/1061034644/p/2

I'd appreciate any help.

If hex editing required I'll use S3D if nessary. Just tell me which file needs it. Because I can't fine the nodes responsible for the crew placement on the conning tower.

WH