Real Weight simulation

[_Seth_]

I read somewhere that firing torpedos would make the sub lighter, making it hard to stay at the designated depth. Could this be simulated in SHIII, considering the fact that a salvo of four torps would make the boat about 4 tons lighter..( if a torp weighs one ton..)?

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes it did but since we cannot trim the boat by ourselves, I believe that it is done automatically for you. You can only do so much.

[azn_132]

I read somewhere that firing torpedos would make the sub lighter, making it hard to stay at the designated depth. Could this be simulated in SHIII, considering the fact that a salvo of four torps would make the boat about 4 tons lighter..( if a torp weighs one ton..)?
Why not? that way I can speed up faster to my homeport, but what about losin weight from using all of the deck gun and flak gun ammo?

[_Seth_]

Would that mean that the crew uses compressed air to trim the boat?

[AVGWarhawk]

I believe water was added to keep the nose down.

[_Seth_]

I believe water was added to keep the nose down.
Off course! Stupid me. Blowing air into the tanks would make it worse....:nope::nope::nope::nope:
My head isnt with me today...:oops:
Thanx for answer, mate!!

[azn_132]

[quote=AVGWarhawk]I believe water was added to keep the nose down.
My head isnt with me today...:oops:
quote]
:rotfl: What u mean by ur head isnt wit u today?

[_Seth_]

[quote=AVGWarhawk]I believe water was added to keep the nose down. My head isnt with me today...:oops:
quote]
:rotfl: What u mean by ur head isnt wit u today?
I left it in a glass of water beside my bed...:nope:
:rotfl:

[azn_132]

U mean ur teeth???????? Or is this some joke?

[_Seth_]

U mean ur teeth???????? Or is this some joke?
It is a joke! In norway, we joke about people doing silly things. We say they have "left their head in a glass of water beside the bed", just like old folks false teehts. :rotfl::rotfl:

[azn_132]

U mean ur teeth???????? Or is this some joke?
It is a joke! In norway, we joke about people doing silly things. We say they have "left their head in a glass of water beside the bed", just like old folks false teehts. :rotfl::rotfl:
I need to get use to Norway people's jokes before Im plannin to head to Norway like in a few years.

[_Seth_]

U mean ur teeth???????? Or is this some joke? It is a joke! In norway, we joke about people doing silly things. We say they have "left their head in a glass of water beside the bed", just like old folks false teehts. :rotfl::rotfl: I need to get use to Norway people's jokes before Im plannin to head to Norway like in a few years.:rotfl::rotfl:We are a funny people!

[joea]

U mean ur teeth???????? Or is this some joke? It is a joke! In norway, we joke about people doing silly things. We say they have "left their head in a glass of water beside the bed", just like old folks false teehts. :rotfl::rotfl: I need to get use to Norway people's jokes before Im plannin to head to Norway like in a few years.:rotfl::rotfl:We are a funny people!

Indeed you are. :p

[hocking]

Whoever mentioned that they would flood their torpedo tubes before firing their torpedos to adjust for the loss of weight is correct. When you the torpedo leaves the boat, the flooded torpedo tube (now full of water rather than a torpedo) helps compensate for the loss of weight from the released torpedo. I think their was still a little bit of lost weight since the torpedos weighed so much, but a UBoat should still be able to stay at periscope depth with just a few minor adjustments that the helmsmen were used to making with percission since they knew exactly how much weight they were going to use each time they fired a torpedo.

[Dowly]

Whoever mentioned that they would flood their torpedo tubes before firing their torpedos to adjust for the loss of weight is correct. When you the torpedo leaves the boat, the flooded torpedo tube (now full of water rather than a torpedo) helps compensate for the loss of weight from the released torpedo. I think their was still a little bit of lost weight since the torpedos weighed so much, but a UBoat should still be able to stay at periscope depth with just a few minor adjustments that the helmsmen were used to making with percission since they knew exactly how much weight they were going to use each time they fired a torpedo.

Actually, the weight loss was compensated by pumping more water to the bow (if bow torpedo was fired) tanks. Atleast, that´s the case in Das Boot book. But that´s for the long run. I think for a short period of time (the time it took to finish the attack), keeping the tubes flooded would help the boat to keep it´s balance even.

[VonHelsching]

I´ve read somewhere that when the U-boat that fired all four torpedoes to hit the HMS Barham (and it did, hitting the ammo magazine) in the Med, it popped to the surface.

Pretty scary. Imagine if it didnt hit the cruiser and had to face some big gunnery on the surface...

Von

[AVGWarhawk]

Anyway, Seth, add something like this in the game is cool but I believe you have enough going on that adding this to the fray would make things even more hectic. Just my thoughts.

Hey, what would you think if the game had the ability for you to be just part of the crew. In other words, you would be a planesmen or the machinist. Would'nt that be weird? Just spend the entire patrol in the engine room or something keeping the diesels working/engaging the electric drives.:hmm:

[Dowly]

Hey, what would you think if the game had the ability for you to be just part of the crew. In other words, you would be a planesmen or the machinist. Would'nt that be weird? Just spend the entire patrol in the engine room or something keeping the diesels working/engaging the electric drives.:hmm:

Well, I have my thumbs up that SHIV would have something similar to B17 II: The Mighty Eight, where you saw your crewmen walking inside the plane, treating wounded etc. I always wanted to be the bombardier or the radio man. Just sitting there and watching the scenery. ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

Hey, what would you think if the game had the ability for you to be just part of the crew. In other words, you would be a planesmen or the machinist. Would'nt that be weird? Just spend the entire patrol in the engine room or something keeping the diesels working/engaging the electric drives.:hmm:
Well, I have my thumbs up that SHIV would have something similar to B17 II: The Mighty Eight, where you saw your crewmen walking inside the plane, treating wounded etc. I always wanted to be the bombardier or the radio man. Just sitting there and watching the scenery. ;)

I still have that game....B-17 the Mighty Eight...talk about game with a lot of potential that was left untapped. Such a shame really. I like playing the bombadier and if my bird was hit badly I would switch to pilot and attempt to bring it home. That game could have been extremely good.

[Sailor Steve]

Something else to remember: they didn't have automatic salvoes in real life. Torpedoes were fired one at a time, even when shooting several at the same ship.

[AVGWarhawk]

Something else to remember: they didn't have automatic salvoes in real life. Torpedoes were fired one at a time, even when shooting several at the same ship.

Very true and I guess they waited about 10 seconds before the next torpedo was sent out. Time enough to control the nose? I'm guessing yes.

[Tikigod]

The original B-17 crew management was also excellent...I would take either....2-d or 3-d version of its crew management system....having fires break out or tending to wounded.....very cool stuff done 15 fricken years ago....that you really haven't seen since....

and to add to this discussion....I think running the crew back and forth to help dive the boat faster would be fun.....it would be so much more das bootish....

I kinda like having alot of things to deal with....I like things complicated to match real world sub crew decission making....I find alot of these games boring for the most part when you aren't attacking boats.....there is pretty much nothing to do or learn from.....something simple that they could do is turn the rest of uboat into mini games....say if you are repairing something you would have puzzle to put it back together.....and your reown would allow you to purchase more tools in port that would let you to solve the puzzles faster....other bonus items would be tools to more accurately navigate, collect different types of weather data, new food sources at different ports to motivate crew.....there just isnt any inventory to track or any responsabilities that come with your uboat.

Age of Pirates has a simple crew and inventory system to manage ship cargo and munitions. It also allows you to make repairs while at sea using the materials you purchased or transferred to your ship located in your cargo hold. You use skills your crew earn along the way to repair different types of damage faster (hull damage using wood, sails using silk, crew can put out fires faster). It makes the game alot more immersiive than just floating around waiting to kill your next ship. The game even allows you to transfer materials between cargo holds from ships you are boarding/capturing to your own. This simple concept would make an excellent resupply/milk cow simulation. You could even use this as a means of capturing prisoners or sensative materials that you could trade in for more reown or whatnot when you go back to port. Eve online even has cargo transfers to take prisoners, blueprints, and other items in cargo. Its a common feature found throughout many of todays games.

Hey, what would you think if the game had the ability for you to be just part of the crew. In other words, you would be a planesmen or the machinist. Would'nt that be weird? Just spend the entire patrol in the engine room or something keeping the diesels working/engaging the electric drives.:hmm:
Well, I have my thumbs up that SHIV would have something similar to B17 II: The Mighty Eight, where you saw your crewmen walking inside the plane, treating wounded etc. I always wanted to be the bombardier or the radio man. Just sitting there and watching the scenery. ;)

[_Seth_]

Anyway, Seth, add something like this in the game is cool but I believe you have enough going on that adding this to the fray would make things even more hectic. Just my thoughts.

Hey, what would you think if the game had the ability for you to be just part of the crew. In other words, you would be a planesmen or the machinist. Would'nt that be weird? Just spend the entire patrol in the engine room or something keeping the diesels working/engaging the electric drives.:hmm:

Your probably right..the last thing on my mind, when sending the Eels into a large battleship, is worrying about the depth of the boat. That's what the crew are for, indeed!

Whole patrol as a crewman...:hmm: Interesting... Could be rather boring on long patrols, but interesting non the less.. In that case we would have all the sub compartments included...:roll::up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Whole patrol as a crewman...:hmm: Interesting... Could be rather boring on long patrols, but interesting non the less.. In that case we would have all the sub compartments included...:roll::up:[/quote]

Yeah, all the compartments. Talk about boring sitting in the aft torpedo room for weeks on end:down: Now we know why the invented alcohol!:dead:

[Bill Nichols]

Whoever mentioned that they would flood their torpedo tubes before firing their torpedos to adjust for the loss of weight is correct. When you the torpedo leaves the boat, the flooded torpedo tube (now full of water rather than a torpedo) helps compensate for the loss of weight from the released torpedo. I think their was still a little bit of lost weight since the torpedos weighed so much, but a UBoat should still be able to stay at periscope depth with just a few minor adjustments that the helmsmen were used to making with percission since they knew exactly how much weight they were going to use each time they fired a torpedo.

Actually, the weight loss was compensated by pumping more water to the bow (if bow torpedo was fired) tanks. Atleast, that´s the case in Das Boot book. But that´s for the long run. I think for a short period of time (the time it took to finish the attack), keeping the tubes flooded would help the boat to keep it´s balance even.

In modern subs (and U.S. WWII Fleet boats) the weight loss (from shooting torpedos) is compensated automatically by flooding a special tank (the Water Round Torpedo, or WRT tank). I don't know about WWII U-boats, but I did read a book once about Russian subs during WWII... there were many cases of subs 'bobbing to the surface' immediately after shooting torpedos. :o That could ruin your whole day!

[hocking]

I agree Dowly. You are correct when you say they would eventually rebalance the boats tanks in the long term. However, for the short term, they would try to make immediate compensations from weight loss by flooding the torp tubes. It would just take to long to try to rebalance the entire boat right after you shot a torp.

[Sailor Steve]

The tubes are flooded before the outer doors are opened, to save on the machinery having to fight the water pressure. After the torpedo is fired the water rushes in, reflooding the tube automatically. There is still a sudden pressure variation to be accounted for with the dive planes.

[AS]

The torpedo´s weight was automatically compensated by water. If they hadn´t done that the bow would have splashed through the surface.

But I think it´s nonsense to argue that the loss of all torps influenced the boat´s weight because a sub´s weight can be levelled by the tanks. Don´t forget that they carried tons and tons of fuel which was replaced by seawater (which is heavier than oil), so a U-boat´s weight is changing all the time, but the difference is always compensated by water (that´s why they had to trim-dive everyday. A single drop of addtitional water-weight was enough to make a sub go up or down, so eating and digesting was enough to change a sub´s weight)

Cheers, AS

[Ducimus]

I read somewhere that firing torpedos would make the sub lighter, making it hard to stay at the designated depth. Could this be simulated in SHIII, considering the fact that a salvo of four torps would make the boat about 4 tons lighter..( if a torp weighs one ton..)?

I'd be much happier if firing torpedo's acutally used compressed air :roll:

[_Seth_]

I read somewhere that firing torpedos would make the sub lighter, making it hard to stay at the designated depth. Could this be simulated in SHIII, considering the fact that a salvo of four torps would make the boat about 4 tons lighter..( if a torp weighs one ton..)?
I'd be much happier if firing torpedo's acutally used compressed air :roll:
Hmm...interesting idea. Should be possible ...If its not hard coded..Could someone give that a try? Good one, Ducimus!!!:up::up:

[Ducimus]

Its been discussed before, i think this is off in the land of hard coded. Compressed O2 is seemingly a non factor in most of the game. Unless your flooding internally due to damage (and hence sinking), it's basically there just for show.

[Uber Gruber]

Not sure if this is usefull at all but on recent WaW patrol using NYGM the compressor was destroyed. I was in the middle of being hevaily hit by three escorts at the time but I'm pretty sure blowing ballast caused the Co2 meter to drop 50%. Once the attack was over the Co2 level slowly reduced during my trip home but never increased.

If the above is correct then I would imagine that the Co2 level limits the number of times you can blow ballast whilst submerged (very necessary if your engines are damaged and hence can't maintain forward momentum in a negatively boyant sub).

Note: in NYGM sub is negatively boyant, i.e. sinks at zero knots. In GWX sub is positively boyant hence rises at zero knots.

Would be nice if someone could either qualify my suspicions above or provide more detailed info.

Cheers, Hans.

[AS]

Why should firing a torp use compressed air? Maybe they used very little to push the torp, but they would give away their position immediately if a big bubble went to the surface while blowing ballast...

There were pumps, too, to get rid of water...

By the way, the German order for using compressed air is "AUSblasen", which means "Blow all tanks UNTIL THEY ARE EMPTY"!!! This is certainly the wrong term (and the wrong concept), the real order is "ANblasen" which means you blow just as much air that is needed to get a positive buoyancy (spelling?). In order to save compressed air, they usually used the Diesel´s exhaust pressure to blow the rest of the water out of the tank, the order is "Mit Diesel AUSblasen" (Fully empty the ballast tanks with the Diesel)

Cheers, AS

[svenks]

Why should firing a torp use compressed air?

Well, basically because it did! You do need something to push out the torpedo and air was used. As far as I remember, there was a device to 'catch' that air (only most of it presumeably) so you wouldn't get this big bubble. So the suquence of events was:
Load the tube, close the inner door.
Flood the tube, open outer doors.
Fire the torpedo, trap the air used for that. Water has now filled the tube.
Close outer doors. Drain the tube, add the same /same amount of water to ballast.
Open inner door, reload.

Close enough, anyway :)
BRGDS
Sven