Seawolves editorial

[Bis71]

Now I know you dont want to hear this but please bear with me. Last September, I started work on an article about possible stolen mods. I asked for volunteers here and one person came forward. I need more. I'm not out to make X1 legally vulnerable but the gaming community needs to know where to get the best mods and where not to spend their money.

If you feel your mods have been ripped off, PM me with details.

Thanks.

[Subwolf]

Well since I bought those mods I mailed their support and asked about this. And the answer was that a few small freeware mods are integrated in the products, with the authors permission. I believe them, X1 is a large publisher of gaming software, why should they lie or do something stupid. And it looks like they are getting pretty sick and tired of these accusations. I don't want another discussion about it, just stating what I think.

[CWorth]

And it looks like they are getting pretty sick and tired of these accusations.

Truth hurts doesn't it

I don't want another discussion about it, just stating what I think.

Then dont bring it up if you don't want a discussion on it.

What you think and believe is irrelavant when it is a proven fact that they stole mods..heck one of the people even admitted to having one of sergbutos ship mods in the add-on without his permission over at the SimHq forums.

[Subwolf]

We probably don't need another discussion because we wont agree on this anyway. But this "one of the people" could be any nickname pretending to be one of them.

[Jimbuna]

And it looks like they are getting pretty sick and tired of these accusations.

Truth hurts doesn't it

I don't want another discussion about it, just stating what I think.

Then dont bring it up if you don't want a discussion on it.

What you think and believe is irrelavant when it is a proven fact that they stole mods..heck one of the people even admitted to having one of sergbutos ship mods in the add-on without his permission over at the SimHq forums.

There not worth the typeing effort my friend :nope:

[Wulfmann]

No one here wants or cares about reality on this subject. They are the Frankenstein mob at its mere mention.

What they do not know and/or refuse to understand is.
The guys that made this are just a couple individuals not a big company (speaking for the Med project and my work helping CombatPlanes, as I never worked with X-1 once) and they only get a small royalty for each sale.

I gave them historical information and offered to beta test it. One reason was so I could see what they were doing and spot anything stolen. I notified them about anything I suspected and they were always glad to remove it and make a new one themselves. But, I simply do not know all the facets so what I missed and they missed became a conspiracy to defraud the mod world. I can assure you Combat Planes did not want anything in that pack that was not authorized but Kristalnacht will continue!

It is simply not on the level of Greywolves and the fact people say they stole from Greywolves when Seawolves was released before the first TGW is further proof facts have no relevance but hatred rules and ignorance is king.

The fact there are many people that do not add mods but will buy an expansion is another offense to the elite cult. I got nothing but condemnation and my only reason to help SW-Med was so those other people would sustain and interest and help promote the series to insure UBI’s continuation and to keep an eye on SW so I could prevent any further misunderstandings.
But, the hate fanboys want me banned because I dared to keep a close watch on SW and gave them some tips.
Even in that SW stated they were not making their pack for serious simmers but more for casual gamers and often ignored my historic advice. That was fine as I understood the purpose.

However, I did what I did because I knew and still believe it was in the best interest for this community and could care less for those small minded, short sighted people that believe making their site “Wulfmann Frei” is any different than 1938 all over again.

Wulfmann

PS, its not "MY" quote but go a head and slame TJ and the rest of our forefathers if you feel better for it

[Subwolf]

But, the hate fanboys want me banned because I dared to keep a close watch on SW and gave them some tips.

Don't worry, you are not the only one they want banned because you don't agree with them.

The moderators disappears behind PMs about silly complaints, I've had my share in here too, but have yet to PM any mod about it. Can handle a couple of pudels up my legs without running to the mods and hide behind their backs all the time.

[Dowly]

Ffs! Stop crying SubWolf!!! Yes, we dont agree with you that innocent civilians deserved to die, just because they had a fracking lunatic as a leader! Grow up! Judging by your posts, I really doubt that you are a airline pilot! Actually, I really doubt that your age is more than 9years. You dont know anything about the SW incident so stfu!

Can handle a couple of pudels up my legs without running to the mods and hide behind their backs all the time.

Yea, instead of PMing a mod, you cry about it in public. "Mommy mommy, the guys bully me!! :cry:"

[Subwolf]

Dowly, I haven't stated anywhere that civilians deserve to die. About the rest of your post I don't care what you think. Thought you had me on your ignore list, I think you should by now.

[Dowly]

I don't think I could care less about the civilians in Berlin and other cities who were bombed day and night, they asked for it.

:roll:

Anyways, this is not the topic for this. Sorry, for 'borrowing' your topic Bis71. ;)

[Ducimus]

http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~bartmac/stfu.jpg

[Subwolf]

Yes, give it to Dowly...looks like he needs a cup of that ;)

[Dowly]

Yes, give it to Dowly...looks like he needs a cup of that ;)

Thanks mate. I needed that. Now, please take this pistol and shoot yourself. Thank you and have a nice day.

[Subwolf]

You're welcome, and please stay on topic next time. Remember that's what the mods wants you to do.

[Ducimus]

Not Dowly. The Seawolf, X1 fanboys with an agenda.

Shut up about it already. Nobody here likes your precious expansion that you needlessly spent your cash on. Accept it, Get over it ,and move on already.

[Bis71]

Guys, I don't want discussion or flames., Just any facts as PMs.

Thanks.

[Dowly]

You're welcome, and please stay on topic next time. Remember that's what the mods wants you to do.

Actually, it was you who went to the side fracking tracks on this topic. :yep:

[Subwolf]

Shut up about it already. Nobody here likes your precious expansion that you needlessly spent your cash on. Accept it, Get over it ,and move on already.

Are you talking to me? You know, once again I noticed that a member asked a few innocent questions about the X1 add on, and again they receive the usual treatment. I don't like to see that. If you can't answer the questions, simply don't post or do ignore the thread. There are many users of this mod, and they should be allowed to ask questions about it in a subsim forum like this one.

[Dowly]

But you gotta understand how the modders whom work X1 stole feel about it. I´ve done very little 3D modeling and I respect the ones who do big models like ships and stuff. It´s really hard and time consuming work to do. They have every right to be angry to X1 and their mod of the many many many hours of work they stole without permission.

[clayton]

Just curious Subwolf, but would you support X1 or whoever developed the game to compensate developers/modders whose mods are proven to be in Seawolves? :hmm:

NSDQ

[Safe-Keeper]

We probably don't need another discussion because we wont agree on this anyway.Apparently not, even though we've presented evidence and proven that X-1 stole mods from the community. This thread is as useless as your average evolution vs. Creation debate.

Anyone who can assist Bis71, PM him. For the rest of us - let's let this thread die.

[HunterICX]

:x

STOP! IT NOW!

stop those personal attacks and baiting actions!

I,m getting sick and tired of seeing threads been messed up by these useless discussions. really stop it now.

Ignore each other and dont try to fire a ''Last Word'' post against eachother.

the problems you guys causing arent worth all this. and you only give more work for mods to close this thread.

really guys nock it off, or else you really piss me off!

HunterICX

and maybe, some also have to know these Threads where SW,X1 are mentioned, stop making those. no matter if your PRO or CON and want to share something about it, dont share it with the comunity , because it always turned out in a slapfight between members.

[Gizzmoe]

Yes, couldn´t agree more!

[CCIP]

I'm afraid I'll have to kill this otherwise decent thread if there are any more posts that are of the same nature as, well, all the ones after the original post.

I really wish jasonb885 was around. Try to PM him - he put together quite a detailed case about the X1 story back in the day. Likewise, try to get in touch with Terrapin, he knows this in solid detail.

[sergbuto]

heck one of the people even admitted to having one of sergbutos ship mods in the add-on without his permission over at the SimHq forums.

Yes, he admitted that on SimHq forums both for Seawolves and SW-Med addons. That person was Leonard Hjalmarson, as I understand the owner of Combat Planes. He was in e-mail and PM contact with me about those mods. I told him that they should not use my mods after the scandal about their intention to release free mods as payware without modders permission but they did it anyway.

I have already described before how anyone can easily check that himself, provided the person really wants the facts, not speculations. Coincidence of 8-digit identification codes for every single object in a number of 3D models in my mods and SW addons tells it all. This coincidence is impossible unless the files were copied.

When the first rumours, that X-1 Software is going to release first Seawolves addons with free mods without modders permission, appeared X-1 Software people denied that. In followed-up discussions owner of X-1 Software Trombke (if I remember correctly the spelling) went as far as making anti-Jewish remarks on UBISOFT's forums and posting porno on Subsim's forums, although later he said that it was done by his younger relative using his nick while he was away.

When it was proved that X-1 Software people are lying about not having free mods without modders permission, they had to remove the mods but they removed only those which were named/pointed out to in discussions and kept the rest, like some of my mods. And they did the same thing for the second addon SW-Med.

Now, if some want to believe this kind of people, represented X-1 Software and Combat planes during SW scandals, that is their choice of the principles in live. But I believe those some will not convince the majority of Subsim forum visitors that X-1 Software and Combat planes people were unaware of their wrong doing with both SW addons.

Now back on topic.

Bis71,
Unfortunately, most of modders who were doing their work on SH3 in the past are not visiting Subsim's forums. They moved on. Therefore, they are unaware of your call. I may suggest to send e-mail to Nico. That is the guy who managed to force Combat Planes people to remove the stuff from SW by threatening to sue them. But I do not know whether all the stuff he was talking about was removed or not.

[Onkel Neal]

Let's keep this thread on topic.

[Onkel Neal]

heck one of the people even admitted to having one of sergbutos ship mods in the add-on without his permission over at the SimHq forums.
Yes, he admitted that on SimHq forums both for Seawolves and SW-Med addons. That person was Leonard Hjalmarson, as I understand the owner of Combat Planes. He was in e-mail and PM contact with me about those mods. I told him that they should not use my mods after the scandal about their intention to release free mods as payware without modders permission but they did it anyway.

I have already described before how anyone can easily check that himself, provided the person really wants the facts, not speculations. Coincidence of 8-digit identification codes for every single object in a number of 3D models in my mods and SW addons tells it all. This coincidence is impossible unless the files were copied.

When the first rumours, that X-1 Software is going to release first Seawolves addons with free mods without modders permission, appeared X-1 Software people denied that. In followed-up discussions owner of X-1 Software Trombke (if I remember correctly the spelling) went as far as making anti-Jewish remarks on UBISOFT's forums and posting porno on Subsim's forums, although later he said that it was done by his younger relative using his nick while he was away.

When it was proved that X-1 Software people are lying about not having free mods without modders permission, they had to remove the mods but they removed only those which were named/pointed out to in discussions and kept the rest, like some of my mods. And they did the same thing for the second addon SW-Med.

Now, if some want to believe this kind of people, represented X-1 Software and Combat planes during SW scandals, that is their choice of the principles in live. But I believe those some will not convince the majority of Subsim forum visitors that X-1 Software and Combat planes people were unaware of their wrong doing with both SW addons.

Now back on topic.

Bis71,
Unfortunately, most of modders who were doing their work on SH3 in the past are not visiting Subsim's forums. They moved on. Therefore, they are unaware of your call. I may suggest to send e-mail to Nico. That is the guy who managed to force Combat Planes people to remove the stuff from SW by threatening to sue them. But I do not know whether all the stuff he was talking about was removed or not.
Very good summary.

I think Bis' editorial is a good idea. The problem is substantiating enough facts and evidence. That could be hard to come by. But at the very least, he can interview people who are mod creators and community leaders. Serg's credentials are pretty well-established. I concur that my experience during this period matches his. The porn spamming the forums, the BS Stefan tried to pull on people who came up with the mod ideas and made them work, they blatant disregard for the mod work done by others.

Over the years I have seen a few people plagurize other people's work. In the case of Seawolves/X1, they were caught using Subsim mods without permission. Of course, when the whistle was blown, the X1 guy started e-mailing all the modders and tried to smooth things over by "asking" for their permission with the promise of a complimentary copy of the SW mod and full credit. I know because several modders filled me in on this with documentation.

Maybe Wulfman and SubWolf believe X1 was honest and on the up-and-up, but I was there too, and I came away with a very different opinion.

[Letum]

Thanks for the facts Niel and Sergbuto. :up:


Facts like those speak for them selves and opinions are not necessary.

[Bis71]

Boyh Neal and Serbuhto are my main sources. I have a lawyer covering.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

BUMP...

[Subwolf]

Well according to Wulfmann there are elements of the Seawolves mods in GWX, so looks like we got a who stole mods from who...

But my point is that there are a lot of X-1 product users out there, and it's kind of ridicilous that they can't discuss those add ons here without being attacked by other members...just because the Seawolves mods contains a ship model or a couple of small freeware mods used without permission. In my opinion it's time to put this behind us, those products will always be around anyway.

But posts about this issue often ends up in a fight between members, nothing can control that, just stopped when damage is already done. So on the other hand I can understand why the moderators here don't like threads about it.

[fredbass]

Well according to Wulfmann there are elements of the Seawolves mods in GWX, so looks like we got a who stole mods from who...

But my point is that there are a lot of X-1 product users out there, and it's kind of ridicilous that they can't discuss those add ons here without being attacked by other members...just because the Seawolves mods contains a ship model or a couple of small freeware mods used without permission. In my opinion it's time to put this behind us, those products will always be around anyway.

But posts about this issue often ends up in a fight between members, nothing can control that, just stopped when damage is already done. So on the other hand I can understand why the moderators here don't like threads about it.

Wulfmann's comments were incorrect and have already been clearly refuted.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well according to Wulfmann there are elements of the Seawolves mods in GWX, so looks like we got a who stole mods from who...

But my point is that there are a lot of X-1 product users out there, and it's kind of ridicilous that they can't discuss those add ons here without being attacked by other members...just because the Seawolves mods contains a ship model or a couple of small freeware mods used without permission. In my opinion it's time to put this behind us, those products will always be around anyway.

But posts about this issue often ends up in a fight between members, nothing can control that, just stopped when damage is already done. So on the other hand I can understand why the moderators here don't like threads about it.

Just because Wulfmann says a thing is true... does not mean that it is true.

Just because you want this thread to go away... does not mean that it will.

It is time for proof of accusations. Both Wulfmann and you have leveled accusations of theft at the GW/GWX mod / Dev Team.

Bring it on.

[Jimbuna]

Well according to Wulfmann there are elements of the Seawolves mods in GWX, so looks like we got a who stole mods from who...

But my point is that there are a lot of X-1 product users out there, and it's kind of ridicilous that they can't discuss those add ons here without being attacked by other members...just because the Seawolves mods contains a ship model or a couple of small freeware mods used without permission. In my opinion it's time to put this behind us, those products will always be around anyway.

But posts about this issue often ends up in a fight between members, nothing can control that, just stopped when damage is already done. So on the other hand I can understand why the moderators here don't like threads about it.

:roll: YSFNB

[clayton]

Subwolf, please answer my question. Should the modders whose product is in Seawolves be fairly compensated? Or are they out!!! Very, very simple question...

NSDQ

[Subwolf]

I think the whole thing is silly, and I have no idea about any stolen mods in GWX, was refering to Wulfmann's comment.

I just hope that you all can behave when some poor member asks an innocent question about the Seawolves mods.

[clayton]

How about this: Take your product back, keep your money, and the folks here will make sure you get all the free downloads you need so you have a better game expierence! I promise you'll get all the support you need!!! Man, dont you feel ripped off???

NSDQ

[danlisa]

....<snip>....Just because Wulfmann says a thing is true... does not mean that it is true.

Just because you want this thread to go away... does not mean that it will.

It is time for proof of accusations. Both Wulfmann and you have leveled accusations of theft at the GW/GWX mod / Dev Team.

Bring it on.


:eek: The Kpt's in the house.

What's the safe distance to avoid any fallout?:huh:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I think the whole thing is silly, and I have no idea about any stolen mods in GWX, was refering to Wulfmann's comment.

I just hope that you all can behave when some poor member asks an innocent question about the Seawolves mods.

Typically what I have observed is that when new users come here and ask for support regarding an X-1 product, is that the user is not "attacked" as you say.

Generally speaking advice has been to remove said X-1 product and install one of the freeware mod packages available here.

You were quoted above contributing to the idea that files were stolen from whatever X-1 product is mentioned there.

This thread is about documenting proof of accusations and putting the matter to rest.

The time for you (or whoever) to do so is now.

[Pants]

Well regarding certain sounds that i have made for and are in GWX are mine from scratch, But according to Wulfmann the said sounds came from that X-1 trash...i would like Wulfmann to knock on my front door and ask me personally If i stole from X-1. This in not a threat, i would like him to put up or shut up.
Oh and by the way i have all the proof i need to disbute that comment, starting from the original place where i got said sounds ( Of which i do have Photo's and cam corder footage) Including all the stages from the original (22MHz mono) sound all the way to the finished article 44Mhz surround stereo).Unlike boris's work that was stolen by Donots76, Boris had photo's to back him up, However i do have files, Dates/ times..that can all be corroborated.

[Subwolf]

I'm comparing the sounds Wulfmann is talking about, I'll probably believe you.

[Wulfmann]

First thru seventh! I never said GWX stole anything from X-1.
Please show me that thread.

Second, I never said GWX took sounds from SW-Med.
I said some of the same sounds were in SW-Med and I found it very funny.

For one, I came to associate those sounds when testing SW-Med and being I play TGW (and now GWX) I felt they made GWX cheaper than I thought it should be. This because SW-med is meant as a gamer add on and GWX a superior sim like add on.
I however, made it clear that my thoughts were only because of the association with testing SW-Med and not meant the sounds were really less credible.

I did not mean every sound, just enough that the attack, explosions, DCes, engines etc made GWX sound like I was in SW-Med.
Now, as for Pants. The 20MM is certainly a completely new never heard before sound to me. What other sounds did you make? I will run them side by side with those in SW-Med and tell everyone how they are different so I don't have to go over to your house and knock on your door.
Now, as far as the many times it has been said SW one or SW-Med have stolen from TGW or GWX may I remind you both of those SWs were released before either TGW or GWX.
I had absolutely nothing to do with the first SW and as I said one reason I beta tested the Med one was to look for any mods that were not authorized and admit I am limited to know what to look for. What were you guys doing except crying and throwing tantrums while I did my best to look for those mods (and when I did Len thanked me as he was trying to not use anything not authorized)
Forget what I just wrote, lets free Barabas instead!
May I also remind you UBI sift owns the copyrights to all those files and even if they used a UBI owned modified file they were legally entitled to

I certainly realize most here will read what I post, ignore what they can't use against me, edit and translate whatever I say to something that suits their flame mob Kristalnacht mentality and as was written above that certainly continues.
Look at my explanation above. Not one person has commented on that nor has anyone ever offered any evidence any of it is not the truth.
What those that have their panties in a knot just don't seem to understand is I am amused by their passion for negativity and wasted energy not upset by it.
It would have to be true to bother me. As yet, I am not bothered; do the math!

Keep on throwing those hissy fits; I enjoy laughing at them.

Wulfmann

[Kpt. Lehmann]

First thru seventh! I never said GWX stole anything from X-1.
Please show me that thread.

Second, I never said GWX took sounds from SW-Med.
I said some of the same sounds were in SW-Med and I found it very funny.

For one, I came to associate those sounds when testing SW-Med and being I play TGW (and now GWX) I felt they made GWX cheaper than I thought it should be. This because SW-med is meant as a gamer add on and GWX a superior sim like add on.
I however, made it clear that my thoughts were only because of the association with testing SW-Med and not meant the sounds were really less credible.

I did not mean every sound, just enough that the attack, explosions, DCes, engines etc made GWX sound like I was in SW-Med.
Now, as for Pants. The 20MM is certainly a completely new never heard before sound to me. What other sounds did you make? I will run them side by side with those in SW-Med and tell everyone how they are different so I don't have to go over to your house and knock on your door.
Now, as far as the many times it has been said SW one or SW-Med have stolen from TGW or GWX may I remind you both of those SWs were released before either TGW or GWX.
I had absolutely nothing to do with the first SW and as I said one reason I beta tested the Med one was to look for any mods that were not authorized and admit I am limited to know what to look for. What were you guys doing except crying and throwing tantrums while I did my best to look for those mods (and when I did Len thanked me as he was trying to not use anything not authorized)
Forget what I just wrote, lets free Barabas instead!
May I also remind you UBI sift owns the copyrights to all those files and even if they used a UBI owned modified file they were legally entitled to

I certainly realize most here will read what I post, ignore what they can't use against me, edit and translate whatever I say to something that suits their flame mob Kristalnacht mentality and as was written above that certainly continues.
Look at my explanation above. Not one person has commented on that nor has anyone ever offered any evidence any of it is not the truth.
What those that have their panties in a knot just don't seem to understand is I am amused by their passion for negativity and wasted energy not upset by it.
It would have to be true to bother me. As yet, I am not bothered; do the math!

Keep on throwing those hissy fits; I enjoy laughing at them.

Wulfmann

Your carelessly worded and unecessary posts found on the link to the locked thread below can be construed as an acusation of theft. Whether your accusation is veiled or direct the distinction between the two is irrelevant.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102653 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102653)

It is obvious to me and many others that you (and Subwolf) enjoy planting the seeds of chaos wherever you travel in these forums... as you have done at the Ubisoft forums.

Furthermore, based on the timelines of various release dates... opportunity certainly existed for members of the "Seawolves-Battle in the Mediterranean" developers to extract whatever they wished from GW material released prior to their work.

The Grey Wolves Version 1.0 released - March 19 2006

The Grey Wolves Version 1.1 update released - April 22 2006
some sound changes were made based on player feedback.

The Grey Wolves Version 1.1 1024 Cfg/Bearing overlay hotfix - April 23 2006 (No sound changes)

The Grey Wolves 1.1a release - June 15 2006 (No files changed... GW 1.0 and all update files are simply bundled together and given an auto installer for player ease of use.)

GWX released - December 16 2006


Regarding your sniveling martyrdom, and implications that we are behaving like Nazis, I am not going to address those here. These sort of hateful remarks from you and Subwolf have been constant. I will only suggest that the reader review your previous posts and the context in which they are found to determine exactly who it is that has a "passion for negativity."

Regarding legal entitlement: IIRC this concept does not include original intellectual property.

[Subwolf]

Lehmann, why don't you relax for a change...:roll:

[Dowly]

Lehmann, why don't you relax for a change...:roll:

I still have the pistol reserved for you. Just ask if you need it. :up:

[gouldjg]

Lehmann, why don't you relax for a change...:roll:

Ones got to ask

"why do you constantly bait them though"

It appears that way to me but maybe I am wrong.

I dont think they are easily baited but I do notice the usual dig at them when it is uncalled for (kinda sad really).

[danlisa]

Lehmann, why don't you relax for a change...:roll:

I still have the pistol reserved for you. Just ask if you need it. :up:

It's just aswell people quote you, otherwise I wouldn't know what you said....

As for KL relaxing, are you thick????

You and Wulfmann have accused him and his team of stealing. That can not go unanswered. They have spent months of their freetime developing this.

He has a right to be p*ssed off.:stare:

[Subwolf]

I haven't accused them for stealing anything, talk to Wulfmann about that story.

And I'm not in the mood for your games tonight, watching a movie...so close the hatch.

[fredbass]

I haven't accused them for stealing anything, talk to Wulfmann about that story.

You know, when someone says it appears that this or that is happening based on what they've seen or heard, then to me, it's really not much better than actually coming out and making an outright accusation.

[AVGWarhawk]

Me thinks it is going to get ugly in here.....battle stations! Periscope Depth! Incoming!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I haven't accused them for stealing anything, talk to Wulfmann about that story.

And I'm not in the mood for your games tonight, watching a movie...so close the hatch.

Dealing with legal matters is anything but a game.

[AVGWarhawk]

In all reality men, if this has become a legal matter it would be best to defer conversation about it because it will turn into an OJ Simpson "If I done it" case. Best to leave it alone. One's position can be compromised....

[Subwolf]

Lehmann, why don't you relax for a change...:roll:

Ones got to ask

"why do you constantly bait them though"

It appears that way to me but maybe I am wrong.

I dont think they are easily baited but I do notice the usual dig at them when it is uncalled for (kinda sad really).

Yes you are wrong. Since Lehmann and his team appears to become desperate if someone says a bad word about GWX, specially if they come from me, I agreed with the moderators not to discuss very much of the GWX-mod.

But this is kinda hard if Lehmann keeps hanging on my back all the time. So Lehmann, just stay away from me and you don't have to worry..

[Wulfmann]

KK, So no one has to click the link I am pasting what I wrote in the thread.

I repeat, I never intended to infer GWX stole anything. What I was saying was it is ironic that with all the accusations of SW stealing mods (inspite of SW-Med being released in France before TGW1.0 was released anywhere) that now GWX sounds like SW-Med.
To me that was simply funny in an ironic way.

Anyway, here is the post. Rip it apart!

No matter how I put it this will be taken wrong.

But, the sound in GWX is the sound from Seawolves or at least the same sound I assume by the sound maker who sold it to Seawolves then gave it to GWX.
I have had these sounds since the first beta SW-Med a year ago. They were in SW-Med when it was released before the first TGW so please don’t start the SW stole it stupidity. Simple math dictates this.
Here is the irony for me. I take SW as a mod for those that don’t DL and tweak for whatever reason don’t mind paying to get an add on and not for those of us that are more serious about making this a better sim for U-Boaten.
Therefore these sounds remind me of the gamer version of SH3 add ons and not the serious side.
It might just be my association and maybe these are better but I hear gamey and I am moving the GW1.1, RUB, NYGM and other individual sound mods I have acquired into GWX because in spite of what some may think I do not want GWX to sound like Seawolves.
It does seem a little funny, GWX copied SW, even if it was unintentional, that is what happened. Excuse me if I

Wulfmann

[Onkel Neal]

I had absolutely nothing to do with the first SW and as I said one reason I beta tested the Med one was to look for any mods that were not authorized and admit I am limited to know what to look for. What were you guys doing except crying and throwing tantrums while I did my best to look for those mods (and when I did Len thanked me as he was trying to not use anything not authorized)
Yeah? How is Len associated with Stefan? What is Len's forum username? Which one of those guys spammed the Subsim forums with porn?
Like I said, I experienced the deception and BS first hand. You can choose not to believe me, that's fine.

May I also remind you UBI sift owns the copyrights to all those files and even if they used a UBI owned modified file they were legally entitled to.
If that is true, then it must be ok to take the Seawolves mod and pass it out as a free download. Or even better, repackage it and sell it as a new add-on. Seth! You were right all along ;)

It sure seems unethical to collect mods and assemble them for sale without the mod creator's permission. What if the owner of this forum decided all user accounts belongs to him and he decided to log in as Wulfmann and post a bunch of crazy stuff? :)

I certainly realize most here will read what I post, ignore what they can't use against me, edit and translate whatever I say to something that suits their flame mob Kristalnacht mentality and as was written above that certainly continues.
Look at my explanation above. Not one person has commented on that nor has anyone ever offered any evidence any of it is not the truth.
What those that have their panties in a knot just don't seem to understand is I am amused by their passion for negativity and wasted energy not upset by it.
It would have to be true to bother me. As yet, I am not bothered; do the math!

Keep on throwing those hissy fits; I enjoy laughing at them.
Just make sure you are not provoking people, this forum only allows a minimum of that, you know. :nope:

[gouldjg]

KK, So no one has to click the link I am pasting what I wrote in the thread.

I repeat, I never intended to infer GWX stole anything. What I was saying was it is ironic that with all the accusations of SW stealing mods (inspite of SW-Med being released in France before TGW1.0 was released anywhere) that now GWX sounds like SW-Med.
To me that was simply funny in an ironic way.

Anyway, here is the post. Rip it apart!

No matter how I put it this will be taken wrong.

But, the sound in GWX is the sound from Seawolves or at least the same sound I assume by the sound maker who sold it to Seawolves then gave it to GWX.
I have had these sounds since the first beta SW-Med a year ago. They were in SW-Med when it was released before the first TGW so please don’t start the SW stole it stupidity. Simple math dictates this.
Here is the irony for me. I take SW as a mod for those that don’t DL and tweak for whatever reason don’t mind paying to get an add on and not for those of us that are more serious about making this a better sim for U-Boaten.
Therefore these sounds remind me of the gamer version of SH3 add ons and not the serious side.
It might just be my association and maybe these are better but I hear gamey and I am moving the GW1.1, RUB, NYGM and other individual sound mods I have acquired into GWX because in spite of what some may think I do not want GWX to sound like Seawolves.
It does seem a little funny, GWX copied SW, even if it was unintentional, that is what happened. Excuse me if I

Wulfmann

Ironic seems a popular word today:lol: .

To be honest, my immpressions of what you wrote are exactly what you predicted in the first line of that thread. (maybe I am just simple minded)

I cannot help but to think that you were, in some way trying to say that GWX dev team took inspiration if not the works from this so called SW med mod.

Well considering that GWX was a large team of people whom all had their own works compiled to go into the mod, I cannot see that they would lower themselves to taking such work from elsewhere. In fact I can never recall any conversation about X1 or SW.

No wonder they get slightly peeeed off at people when this kind of stuff pops up.
I probably would have gotten myself banned in my responce to a thread like that.

Just the way it reads mate, despite the ironic side to it.

[Onkel Neal]

But my point is that there are a lot of X-1 product users out there, and it's kind of ridicilous that they can't discuss those add ons here without being attacked by other members...just because the Seawolves mods contains a ship model or a couple of small freeware mods used without permission. In my opinion it's time to put this behind us, those products will always be around anyway.

But posts about this issue often ends up in a fight between members, nothing can control that, just stopped when damage is already done. So on the other hand I can understand why the moderators here don't like threads about it.

I agree, people who bought Seawolves should NOT be attacked in this forum. But I believe they are entitled to know the genesis of the SW package and some of the history.

[_Seth_]

If that is true, then it must be ok to take the Seawolves mod and pass it out as a free download. Or even better, repackage it and sell it as a new add-on. Seth! You were right all along ;)
:up::up::rotfl::rotfl:
(I will not enter this debate, you all know what i think...):rock:

[The Munster]

I haven't accused them for stealing anything, talk to Wulfmann about that story.

And I'm not in the mood for your games tonight, watching a movie...so close the hatch.

Top line [translation] = it wasn't me, it was somebody else

Bottom line [translation] = I'm just gonna make like an Ostrich and stick my head in the sand until the dust settles then start antagonising again.

[Ducimus]

What i don't understand is how one or two people can so adamantly defend X1 and subwolves to any degree. What's their stake in all this? Why give a rat's ass?

Small time software companies like X1 have been scouping up and repackinging mods and user created maps off the internet and burning them on commercial CD's since the days of Doom and DukeNukem3d. So what makes X1 so special? It smacks of special or personal intrest on the part of the defenders.

[Wulfmann]

I do not disbelieve you Neal. I have never had any contact with Stefan unless he was the one German I went after on the UBI forum for remarks made to the Avon Lady while the so called righteous said nothing!

As for copyrighted material. UBI owns it. Modifying their material does not make it yours, it still belongs to them. They have given SW permission to use their copyrighted material. Nonetheless, Len tried not to use anything that was modded even though he legally could have. What ever I identified as such he always thanked me and removed it but, as I said my ability is limited on SH3 files.
UBI still owns those files so you distributing them without their permission may not be considered the same as SW having their permission.
I am not a part of UBI nor X-1 nor Combat Planes. I allowed Len to ask me historic related questions, made historic suggestions and beta tested the Med version partially to see what mods were in it. Your welcome!
I am, however, the closest thing that can be attacked and vented on by anyone that dislikes them and now includes you.

I have no idea what any of their user names are or ever were.
I emailed Len and only Len and that was my only communication except for CDs of each beta as it progressed coming in the mail. He also sent me the first SW which I have never installed.

Neal, have you read the above post on this? All the post? Really, each one and what they have said without any evidence?
Can you believe accusations with no proof!
How many times in this thread is it stated that I claimed GWX stole mods from SW. Now, please quote where I said it.
I did not, they did not, sorry, GWX and SW-Med sound very much alike to me.
I still find that ironic, don’t you?

Wulfmann

[Subwolf]

I haven't accused them for stealing anything, talk to Wulfmann about that story.

And I'm not in the mood for your games tonight, watching a movie...so close the hatch.

Top line [translation] = it wasn't me, it was somebody else

Bottom line [translation] = I'm just gonna make like an Ostrich and stick my head in the sand until the dust settles then start antagonising again.

Yeah I guess there are some people in this thread looking for another fight, or maybe I should say another high temp discussion. But I happened to come across a movie on tv which is more interesting than you guys...

[stabiz]

Submann pissed of alot of people a way back, and now he seems to have joined up with enemies of those he pissed off. Very Sun Tzu, and somewhat funny.

As for Wulfwolf? My guess is hes just lacking social intelligence, and owns 99% of the X1 shares.

[Safe-Keeper]

Ironic seems a popular word today:lol: .If that was directed at a certain thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102789), I'd like for you to excuse me while I accidentally kick you.
[Boot]
Thanks:up:.

Since Lehmann and his team appears to become desperate if someone says a bad word about GWX [...]Correction: If someone tactlessly says something bad about GWX. I and several others have critizised the mod openly without receiving as much as warning shot or red flare in return (see the "GWX Issues"-thread).

[Onkel Neal]

I do not disbelieve you Neal. I have never had any contact with Stefan unless he was the one German I went after on the UBI forum for remarks made to the Avon Lady while the so called righteous said nothing!

Ok. And I told Bis the same thing--I don't expect him to take my testimony as evidence, it's strictly my account of what I saw. I am firm in my belief that X1/SW was a pretty underhanded way to make a few thousand bucks (probably $10,000~$20,000 or so).

Btw, I Serg and I forgot to mention the leaked FTP of the X1 SW mod package, that had the original mods with their related readme files written by the original mod designers :o


As for copyrighted material. UBI owns it. Modifying their material does not make it yours, it still belongs to them. They have given SW permission to use their copyrighted material. Nonetheless, Len tried not to use anything that was modded even though he legally could have. What ever I identified as such he always thanked me and removed it but, as I said my ability is limited on SH3 files.
UBI still owns those files so you distributing them without their permission may not be considered the same as SW having their permission.


What do you want to bet I could get permission from Ubi, if I wanted to?

And again, why can't people take the SW Battle in Med, disassemble the pieces, reassemble with new names, and give them out? That's the question I would like an answer to.



I am not a part of UBI nor X-1 nor Combat Planes. I allowed Len to ask me historic related questions, made historic suggestions and beta tested the Med version partially to see what mods were in it. Your welcome!
I am, however, the closest thing that can be attacked and vented on by anyone that dislikes them and now includes you.


I hope this is not seen as "attacking" you. I disagree with the Seawolves/X1/scooping up mods without express permission and using them for profit.


Neal, have you read the above post on this? All the post? Really, each one and what they have said without any evidence?
Can you believe accusations with no proof!
How many times in this thread is it stated that I claimed GWX stole mods from SW. Now, please quote where I said it.
I did not, they did not, sorry, GWX and SW-Med sound very much alike to me.
I still find that ironic, don’t you?


I think from reading this post and the breathlessly worded GWX has the same sound as Seawolves Med!!! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102653) post it would be fair to say you inferred GW borrowed some sounds from SW. "It does seem a little funny, GWX copied SW, even if it was unintentional, that is what happened."

I'm pretty sure you knew that would upset some people, too. ;) I've made the statement several times in the last few months that we should try to be courteous to each other. The GW guys worked really hard to get a good mod package for the greater community to enjoy. They have learned a few PR lessons along the way, stuff they probably thought they would not have to deal with, since they were giving freely of their time, energy, and talents. We all know that it doesn't take much to sour the mood of a community. I don't pull out the extinguisher at the first sign of sparks but if this continues, doggone it, we need to step back, exercise some common courtesy and restraint, and let this die down. Or I'll make Bernard a moderator and who knows what that could lead to. :ping:

[bigboywooly]

Noooooooooooooo
Dont release the Bernard on us

[Subwolf]

Since Lehmann and his team appears to become desperate if someone says a bad word about GWX [...]

Correction: If someone tactlessly says something bad about GWX. I and several others have critizised the mod openly without receiving as much as warning shot or red flare in return (see the "GWX Issues"-thread).

I don't agree with you there Safe-Keeper. Actually, in my own case, I have a very few posts about the GWX-mod. I remember one were I mentioned that a ship which can see a U-boat first in the dark is unrealistic, and we know that IS unrealistic. But seconds later Lehmann & Co were all over me. As you can see this happens whether it's "tactlessly" or not. I wish I knew why they jump on me the moment I say the word GWX :hmm:

Anyway...

It's too bad that there seems to be groups of enemies in here formed by the fact that we do not always agree in discussions. But then again there cannot be a discussion if we all agree on everything.

But I will get involved in discussions if I mean that the words said in them are wrong. However you don't have to keep throwing rocks at me because you will never make me cross the line anyway. I'm trained to handle a lot of stress, they bounces right off, and I know exactly where the line is drawn.

I hope that we can see future discussions without personal attacks, and that includes those who would like some help with the X-1 products.

[Wulfmann]

neal, a recap of a few expressed post regarding myself

KL said It is time for proof of accusations. Both Wulfmann and you have leveled accusations of theft at the GW/GWX mod / Dev Team.

Bring it on.

Please show me where I leveled an accusation. Bring it on!

Pants said
Well regarding certain sounds that i have made for and are in GWX are mine from scratch, But according to Wulfmann the said sounds came from that X-1 trash...i would like Wulfmann to knock on my front door and ask me personally If i stole from X-1. This in not a threat, i would like him to put up or shut up.

I never said the sounds you made came from SW. I only referred to the general sounds that are the same files, apparently all of those are old files by their dates.

Danlisa says You and Wulfmann have accused him and his team of stealing. That can not go unanswered. They have spent months of their freetime developing this.

He has a right to be p*ssed off

I have never accused KL, the GW team of stealing anything. The inference of the use of the same sounds that is being taken to mean that is solely a fabrication by anyone wanting to create something that is not there and was never intended. It is what some desire to believe to vent their hatred of SW and with no one else here to attack that falls on me.
I don’t mind being the whipping post but not the untrue accusation fabricated to fit the mood.

Gouldjg said; I cannot help but to think that you were, in some way trying to say that GWX dev team took inspiration if not the works from this so called SW med mod.

Well considering that GWX was a large team of people whom all had their own works compiled to go into the mod, I cannot see that they would lower themselves to taking such work from elsewhere. In fact I can never recall any conversation about X1 or SW.

I believe you want to take it like that. I never thought GWX took any inspiration from SW-Med. What I found so ironic was the fact they sound so much alike knowing they would never have intended that and I am sure if they had run SW-Med and heard the sounds they would have changed them, even though they could use them fine but just because there is a similar sound atmosphere. That is why it is so ironic

Stabiz said; As for Wulfwolf? My guess is hes just lacking social intelligence, and owns 99% of the X1 shares.

Well now that proves I am a liar. After all, I said I never got one cent and have nothing to do with any company. But, since you are so sure a nice $10.000.00 wager would be a sure thing, right?

Neal said; What do you want to bet I could get permission from Ubi, if I wanted to?

I mean this with no disrespect. I don’t care! I have nothing to do with these companies, I do not benefit in any way financially. How does your getting permission to do anything from UBI have anything to do with me? Once again and this time please read it. I beta tested SW-Med as a means of spotting unauthorized mods as well as gave historic advice.
Verstanden, Katalavenies?
So get permission too make a mod, release all the SW files for free. They are not of the type anyone here wants. They are for non-downloading gamers. Serious SH3 simmers will never want SW-Med but will insist on GWX or NYGM so getting permission to give away SW-Med will do what??? And, what will I care if you do??? You seem to think I somehow represent SW. I do not. Please state how many times I need to post that so it sinks in.

KL, above I put KK on a post, it was a typo and was not meant to degrade KL in any way but I want to apologize in advance to avoid a new conspiracy thread!

Sadly, talk about Ironic, I will likely run a GWX patrol every day until SH4 except for Gun shows and those days I have to go over to Pants house and knock on his door. He misses me so!

Except for historic related threads and, of course the entertaining SW threads I get a laugh out of I am doing GWX too much to even know who Bernard is

Wulfmann

[Dowly]

I remember one were I mentioned that a ship which can see a U-boat first in the dark is unrealistic, and we know that IS unrealistic.

On a clear night, the wake from a submarine can be seen very far away, even an airplane can spot the wake. Also, the ships have way better optics than the watch crew of your sub. Also, it´s not possible to make SHIII as real as people would want due the limitations of the engine. So, for example, it doesnt matter if it´s a clear night or if there´s a few clouds covering the moon in SHIII, the engine doesnt model moonlight AFAIK. It all comes down to try and achieve the balance on the sensors.

[HunterICX]

Since Lehmann and his team appears to become desperate if someone says a bad word about GWX [...]

Correction: If someone tactlessly says something bad about GWX. I and several others have critizised the mod openly without receiving as much as warning shot or red flare in return (see the "GWX Issues"-thread).

I don't agree with you there Safe-Keeper. Actually, in my own case, I have a very few posts about the GWX-mod. I remember one were I mentioned that a ship which can see a U-boat first in the dark is unrealistic, and we know that IS unrealistic. But seconds later Lehmann & Co were all over me. As you can see this happens whether it's "tactlessly" or not. I wish I knew why they jump on me the moment I say the word GWX :hmm:

Anyway...

It's too bad that there seems to be groups of enemies in here formed by the fact that we do not always agree in discussions. But then again there cannot be a discussion if we all agree on everything.

But I will get involved in discussions if I mean that the words said in them are wrong. However you don't have to keep throwing rocks at me because you will never make me cross the line anyway. I'm trained to handle a lot of stress, they bounces right off, and I know exactly where the line is drawn.

I hope that we can see future discussions without personal attacks, and that includes those who would like some help with the X-1 products.


1. The problem that we respond with agression lies in the Fact that if you have an Issue with GWX or think it isnt correct. you do not suppose just yell ''UNREALISTIC'' and nothing more that is of use to us to check it. those statements just pisses us off..if you just yell its unrealistic and dont tell us what you did, we cant help you.

if you explain the issue or thingy that isnt realistic in a usefull way, by telling us ''WHAT HAPPEND?'' WHAT DID YOU DO'' we can check it, we can research it. and then we can tell you that we can fix that, or explain that the Engine of SH3 doesnt allows us to moderate it or tell you that what you did was just not the way it worked.

now because the SH3 engine can be a big pain in the ass, that the realism factors we try to moderate have LIMITS. remember that

2. good for you mate, I,m exact the same. I can handle a lot of bullet hits without making me crossing the line. why should I? does it help me ? No, so screw him I will continue doing it my way.

3. Now Subwolf, Place yourself as an Moderator in a Team creating a very good Supermod for a Flight Simulator, because of ur experiences in a Boeing 737 and you know alot about Boeing ur doing every moderation on the boeings in the original Flightsimulator. the Mod is fantastic! people love it. but 4 months later a company called X-1 turns up with an Expansion pack for the Flightsim. you try it out...and when you dig in the files you see its YOUR work! its been made by you and they are gaining profit of it! you shared it with an community for free and they used your Work WITHOUT letting u know it or asking permission. now back on the community people have problems with the X1 product and tell the boeing have lots of issues. what would you tell them?

I know ''Uninstall the X1 product, download our giving Supermod that's Free and the problems are solved'' and you explain them that the X1 product has used mods in them without aksing permission and its the same as the supermod you shared for free with the community.

becaus why would you waste time to research the problem in the X1 product when your own made supermod with the team hasnt have those issues?

thats why most people of the community are against X1 and the SW pack, we dont bite the people who have it, but when someone asks help, we simply tell them to uninstall it and download the free giving supermod thats exactly the same.
but in those threads there are a few people who just cant resist to get the thread of track and get a fight started because it turns into a different discussion.


have a nice day,

HunterICX

[clayton]

C'mon subwolf answer my question. I'm not baiting you, I just want to know your feeling on this...'Should modders, whose mods are part of a product being sold for profit, be paid or compensated for their work'...

NSDQ

[Subwolf]

Well Clayton, that question is not relevant. If someone steals something he probably wouldn't come back later and pay for it, now would he? But I understand what you mean.

[Subwolf]

HunterICX, thread ends like this: We agree about a few freeware mods used in the X-1 products without permission, that's bad, old, over and done with. But those products are still out there used by many subsimmers. We also agree that no X-1 mod is used in GWX.


I agree, people who bought Seawolves should NOT be attacked in this forum. But I believe they are entitled to know the genesis of the SW package and some of the history.
That is my conclusion as well.