View Full Version : Converting SH3 in SH4
I just read an article about Bohemia Interactive starting a project to convert the 5 years-old Operation Flashpiont to its succeessor, Armed Assault.
Now what do you think, should we urge the dev team to do this with SH3 and 4?:D
Schatten
12-19-06, 06:46 PM
It's got my vote, but I'm not going to hold my breath any.
:ping:
TDK1044
12-19-06, 08:36 PM
Why? SH4 will be a superior sim with fewer bugs and much better graphics and gameplay elements.
Schatten
12-19-06, 10:43 PM
Why? SH4 will be a superior sim with fewer bugs and much better graphics and gameplay elements.
That's why. To have U-boats in that engine, which is pretty much a suped up SH III one anyhow.
fire-fox
12-20-06, 07:03 AM
well, look at it this way. SH3 but with all the plus points of SH4 (mush better crew systems, water graphics, ect.) and there u-boats why the hell would any one NOT wont one. (but only if thay get ride of all the none bug's at the same time.:oops:
LeafsFan
12-20-06, 08:31 AM
Why? SH4 will be a superior sim with fewer bugs and much better graphics and gameplay elements.
So we hope at least.
HB
No, I dont want the bugs to be converted, unless you call them a specific feature of SH3 :D
The objective is to simply add the atlantic theatre to SH4, so we can, what I said earlier I would wish for it, choose the side to play a campaign on. (at this point I hope for the gameplay of Sh4 to be more GWX-like, I hate the arcade sim called SH3 Vanilla)
And if this is possible with OFP and AA, which have 5 Years between them, this should be possible with SH3 and 4 even more.......
Give the modders time..i'm sure they'll work something out, Look what they have achieved already with SH3 :rock:
Sailor Steve
12-20-06, 11:13 AM
As soon as the devs announced the upgrades and fixes involved in SH4 I suggested that the next project should be a revamp of SH3 (I offered "SH3.5-Kaleun's Edition" as a name) with all the latest bells and whistles.
Navarre
12-20-06, 03:13 PM
A german game magazine reports in its current issue, that at present Ubisoft is discussed to integrate the contents of SH3 into SH4.
The reasons for this can be so far the bad resonance of the gamers opposite to the Pacific scenario and US subs, because outside the US forums the Pacific scenario is not a big bang. In inquiries on EU gaming forums, 80% rather like to play again German boats in the Atlantic. And many players write that they will not buy SH4, because of dislike US subs or no interest for the scenario. Perhaps not to loose a majority of the EU customer, Ubisoft consider the steps of intergrating SH3 content into the polished SH4 engine.
TDK1044
12-20-06, 03:29 PM
A german game magazine reports in its current issue, that at present Ubisoft is discussed to integrate the contents of SH3 into SH4.
The reasons for this can be so far the bad resonance of the gamers opposite to the Pacific scenario and US subs, because outside the US forums the Pacific scenario is not a big bang. In inquiries on EU gaming forums, 80% rather like to play again German boats in the Atlantic. And many players write that they will not buy SH4, because of dislike US subs or no interest for the scenario. Perhaps not to loose a majority of the EU customer, Ubisoft consider the steps of intergrating SH3 content into the polished SH4 engine.
It sure would be nice for the DEVS to really nail the uboats campaign in the Atlantic as Silent Hunter 5. We'll have to wait and see.
I just read an article about Bohemia Interactive starting a project to convert the 5 years-old Operation Flashpiont to its succeessor, Armed Assault.
Now what do you think, should we urge the dev team to do this with SH3 and 4?:D
Well, Bohemia Interactive is only encourgeing and supporting modders to convert OFP in to AA. The BI dev team are not doing the work.
clayton
12-20-06, 06:41 PM
The thought of there not being a strong US sub following in Europe leads me to wonder!!! :hmm: Might not be a bad idea to convert SH3 in the event SH4 is turned off. BTW, I paid for Pacific Aces and I'd pay for a conversion of SH3 too.
NSDQ
I just read an article about Bohemia Interactive starting a project to convert the 5 years-old Operation Flashpiont to its succeessor, Armed Assault.
Now what do you think, should we urge the dev team to do this with SH3 and 4?:D
Well, Bohemia Interactive is only encourgeing and supporting modders to convert OFP in to AA. The BI dev team are not doing the work.
I know, but it took me too long to explain. Anyways, what I was trying to say was understood. sorry for giving wrong information. :roll:
A german game magazine reports in its current issue, that at present Ubisoft is discussed to integrate the contents of SH3 into SH4.
The reasons for this can be so far the bad resonance of the gamers opposite to the Pacific scenario and US subs, because outside the US forums the Pacific scenario is not a big bang. In inquiries on EU gaming forums, 80% rather like to play again German boats in the Atlantic. And many players write that they will not buy SH4, because of dislike US subs or no interest for the scenario. Perhaps not to loose a majority of the EU customer, Ubisoft consider the steps of intergrating SH3 content into the polished SH4 engine.
You can wonder about this or not, but i'm quite sure there are some people in the US who think the same way. Its not germans liking to be germans, it's just that famous great atmosphere of the u-boats. ;) Blame the movie Das Boot among other things for this.
Nightmare
12-20-06, 07:32 PM
You can wonder about this or not, but I’m quite sure there are some people in the US who think the same way. Its not germans liking to be germans, it's just that famous great atmosphere of the u-boats. ;) Blame the movie Das Boot among other things for this.
I can blame a lot of movies and books for my love of Pacific Theater too. Remember that the Silent Hunter series got it’s birth in the Pacific and I serious doubt if it hadn’t sold well and it didn’t have a market for it, we wouldn’t have seen SH 2 and 3. The US boats haven’t been done in any other game since SH1, and that was back in 1997. Needless to say, it’s been long over due.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Atlantic theater as well. It’s that we’ve had 2 iterations of it back to back. However an expansion pack to get the Atlantic “upgraded” would be fine with me. I just don’t want to see the developers having to cram U-boats in at the sacrifice to other areas of SH4 (it just isn’t a simple matter of importing it all in from SH3). Focus in and get a good solid sim and game play in the Pacific nailed down, then you have a good foundation for future expansions/mods.
TheSatyr
12-20-06, 09:12 PM
I may get slammed for this,but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is so much anti-americanism in Europe and in the forums now that they are going to try and get SH4 canceled in favor of their darling little Nazis and U-boats again. You'd think that the USA was the enemy in WW2 and not the Germans with the way some people fawn over the Germans and denigrate what the USA did in the war.
*more ranting canceled due to the fact that it would get me banned from these boards so fast everyone's heads would spin,if I don't get banned for what I already said...heh*
IRONxMortlock
12-20-06, 09:37 PM
I may get slammed for this,but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is so much anti-americanism in Europe and in the forums now that they are going to try and get SH4 canceled in favor of their darling little Nazis and U-boats again. You'd think that the USA was the enemy in WW2 and not the Germans with the way some people fawn over the Germans and denigrate what the USA did in the war.
It's not just Europe I'm affraid. Since the invasion of Iraq "anti-Americanism" is high everywhere in the world.
How you translate this into why Europeans may be more interested a game based on a conflict which occured in their backyards rather than the other side of the world is beyond me though.
:roll:
Someone feeling a little insecure perhaps?
________
Celine (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Celine/)
TDK1044
12-21-06, 08:01 AM
I don't think that favoring the Atlantic campaign over the Pacific campaign is anti American, I think it reflects the fact that the Atlantic campaign impacted the whole of Europe regarding the delivery of much needed food and medical supplies. These were life or death convoys for a lot of people in Europe.
There was therefore much more cat and mouse drama in the Atlantic campaign.
VON_CAPO
12-21-06, 09:42 AM
IMHO, U-boats have magic and mystique.
US subs fought well, but they do not convince me.
It looks like little by little, it is raising a popular clamor to pay more attention to the Atlantic. :yep:
I may get slammed for this,but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is so much anti-americanism in Europe and in the forums now that they are going to try and get SH4 canceled in favor of their darling little Nazis and U-boats again. You'd think that the USA was the enemy in WW2 and not the Germans with the way some people fawn over the Germans and denigrate what the USA did in the war.
*more ranting canceled due to the fact that it would get me banned from these boards so fast everyone's heads would spin,if I don't get banned for what I already said...heh*
OK, listen up, yes you WILL be slammed for this! I AM from germany and what you won't guess is that I am involved in some local anti-nazi-campaigns in my area....but still play SH3 DUH!
This is no anti-americanism, if I am "anti" to anything in america, it's prejudiced people like you who probably think all germans are wearing lederhosen, drinking bavarian beer and worship hitler!
See it the other way around, in EVERY computergame else you always play on US side, i(in some cases games where you go somewhere and just shoot everything). I also played US-Side-Games often enough and enjoyed it.
Its PC GAMING dammit not POLITICS!
I'd still play SH4 if it is pacific only, but the atlantic scenario just offers more GAMING atmosphere, not more Nazi stuff :damn:
sorry, but such statements drive me nuts.
I may get slammed for this,but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is so much anti-americanism in Europe and in the forums now that they are going to try and get SH4 canceled in favor of their darling little Nazis and U-boats again.
You are correct.
@MRV: "Anti-Nazi-Campaign"? LOL. Go ahead. Would your bunch be made up by the same kind of people who constantly cry "No War!!!" (but only if the US/Israel are involved in any way) and would have no problem with Iran getting the nuke to wipe Israel off the map? This is a rhetorical question btw. I know the answer to that one.
I do not support wars at all, no matter if its US, Germany, Israel, Russia or Kirgisistan or whoever is involved.
Guys who play PC Games settled in wars should know why.
This includes US attacking Iran as well as Iran bombing away Israel!
no discussion, period!
Yep, and there is a word for your problem: Moral equivalency. Same thing that got the Jews dragged out of their homes back then with no one minding.
But you are in the "Anti-Nazi-Campaign". So all is good. I wish you sweet dreams.
Nightmare
12-21-06, 12:09 PM
I’m not here for a bunch of political BS nor am I here to argue with the anti-<insert name here> crowd. If that were the case I’d be posting in the General Forums or on some politics forum. I’m here because I love submarines and it’s probably my number one interest and has been since I was 3 or 4 years old.
Personally, I’m just thankful that enough people share the same interest as me and that developers/game publishers makes these games that we all love. The bottom line is that simulations are a pretty much a small niche market (especially naval ones) and that we need to show our support. If we don’t, a small market is going to grow even smaller and these games won’t continue to be made. Then we’ll all be sitting around on these forums going, “Remember 10 years ago when SH4 came out? Too bad that was one of the last sub sim that came out.”
Because of that, I just don’t understand the slamming of SH4 being in the Pacific or the fact that it’s US submarines. It’s still a submarine simulation, and hopefully a good enough one that builds a foundation for expansion packs and mods. Just because it didn’t affect Europe or your country personally, people still died, and a war was fought over there. It is still an important part of history.
VON_CAPO
12-21-06, 12:14 PM
I’m not here for a bunch of political BS nor am I here to argue with the anti-<insert name here> crowd. If that were the case I’d be posting in the General Forums or on some politics forum Yep, let's get into the topic please. :yep::yep::yep:
Schatten
12-21-06, 12:16 PM
I don't think it's anti-Americanism really (or on the flip side anti-Germanism) but the fact is that most people, Americans included, know a lot more about the ETO than the PTO. Now I'm talking your average man on the street here. There are a lot of reasons for that, for Europeans most of WWII for them was the ETO, except for the British and the Dutch there wasn't a whole lot of European activity in the Pacific during the war and the British have a whole host "patheon" of other things in WWII that usually get more attention like the Battle of Britain, Dunkirk, Market Garden, Monty vs. Rommel, etc.
Some of this can be blamed on the movie industry, I mean compare how many movies come out every year about the ETO and how many about the PTO. Europe gets Band of Brothers, the Pacific gets Windtalkers. The only 2 "big" movies I can think of that were about the Pacific in the past couple years were Flags of Our Fathers and The Great Raid; neither of which even made it to the local theatre here and neither of which made anywhere near as much as something like Saving Private Ryan let alone Shindler's List. Let's face it we're living in a media culture and if there aren't many movies made about it, it's probably not going to register with the average man/woman/datschund on the street who think that the Pacific war was basically Pearl Harbor, a bunch of stuff in between, and then we won by dropping some bombs which we should possibly feel guilty for. And that's it.
Again, I'm talking about your average person on the street not people like the bulk of those here who since are into something as "niche" as WWII submarines probably do have a much broader understanding of WWII in all of its aspects. But it does sadden me a bit when I read that there are some people on European boards who are writing SH IV off already simply because they don't know much about the Pacific and just want the familiar.
I mean, if everyone over here thought that way then the Il-2 series wouldn't have become as big as it did because not a whole lot of Americans (and dare I say Western Europeans aside from Germans) didn't know a whole lot about the Russian Front and were stratching their heads on why someone would make a flight sim based on it and probably even said "it doesn't interest me at all because it's different", but then people started reading up and learned enough to think that it could be interesting, and it sold a lot even in America. So to me when I see a sim about something that I don't know a whole lot about then if it looks interesting I'll do some research, maybe learn something new and that could get me even more interested. So people who are dismissing SH IV simply because it's not U-Boats, or is an unfamiliar theatre of war so therefore couldn't be interesting just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I always see situations like that to learn something new and that's always a good thing.
As for the whole "People always have you playing as Americans" in game I say...well I can't say what I say to that, but I disagree. Take a look at what modern simulations we have now, or soon will...
SH III: not an American campaign to be found.
Il-2 Forgotten Battles: There are American planes but no real American campaign.
Pacific Fighters: One where you can do a USN/USMC/USAAF campaign but the fact it was made by people who don't "live" for the PTO like they do for the ETO unfortunately shines through glaringly. Yes this is a sore point for me because the PTO is my main interest, but that doesn't mean I don't like to play these other sims because they aren't PTO or don't have American campaigns in them.
Red Orchestra: Russian front, no Americans.
Knights of the Sea: PT boats...without US ones.
Tiger vs. T-34: Just by the name you can guess, correctly, Russian Front with no American campaigns.
Battle of Britian: Both Rowan's BoB 2 and Oleg's upcoming one, you guessed it...no American campaigns.
SH IV: This definately has an American campaign, and is in the PTO too. Joyous rapture!
Notice I left out Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, etc. because to me shooters are not simulations in their basic form; Red Orchestra got included because it looks to me to be more of an infantry simulation than a run and gun game. The two most modern sims out/coming out that have the US campaigns in them are indeed set in the PTO not the ETO and that makes me happy because I'm a PTO nut, but that doesn't mean the PTO in any way dominates sims with US campaigns in them. Before PF the last PTO flight sim was Pacific Air War back in the 5 inch floppy days, and the last US sub sim was...well you all know that. ;)
Sheesh this is long and rambling, so I guess I'll sum up with the point being that sims are not always set up to be played from the US side, the Pacific is something that more people would probably enjoy if they learned about it, and just because your nationality/side/theatre preferences aren't included in a sim isn't a good enough reason to write it off sight unseen. If that were the case I'd still be playing the original Silent Hunter and would have no clue the differences between Type IX variants, you can become more interested in subjects that aren't your usual thing through a good sim, so I hope that our European friends will give SH IV a chance too.
The main reason I'm for a SH III conversion to SH IV is to both keep everyone happy, and to have more choice when I sit down to play. Having more choices, not less in your sim engine of choice (yes that looks odd when I type it) is a Good Thing to me.
I may get slammed for this,but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is so much anti-americanism in Europe and in the forums now that they are going to try and get SH4 canceled in favor of their darling little Nazis and U-boats again. You'd think that the USA was the enemy in WW2 and not the Germans with the way some people fawn over the Germans and denigrate what the USA did in the war.
*more ranting canceled due to the fact that it would get me banned from these boards so fast everyone's heads would spin,if I don't get banned for what I already said...heh*
You da man!!......:arrgh!:
Great post Schatten....Very well writen.....You made and raised some very valid points. For as much as my passion for PTO runs...before playing SH3 I knew relatively little about U-boat operations. However, reading all of the many interesting posts within this forum staightened out a lot of misgivings I held about this part of the war. It has been a real learning experience for me personally. So, thru my new found understanding I have come to enjoy playing SH3 and it has provided me with some quality time just trying to unwind from an otherwise stressfull day at work. I will continue to enjoy SH3 until such time that SH4 is finally released. So, once the learning curve is flattened I'm sure all of the ETO gurus will enjoy having an extra 2 torpedos at either end of thier sub they otherwise wouldn't have. That in itself is a wonderful thang!....
I didn't want to set loose a political discussion, it was some people here who tried to blame me and a few others here of being politically influenced when wanting another atlantic subsim.
If you hate that so much, stop playing SH3 now!
And if you hate ME now for reacting on such nonsense, go ahead and report me as a terrorist or something.:nope:
I also have the impression that some ppl here do not know what a nazi exactly is, but that is another topic and will not be explained here by me.
Sorry if I tried to explain WHY the ETO is more popular to most of us, if some disagree, this is fine, its a matter of taste.
But stop going insane on people like me or others and blame them of being or liking nazis. (Thats why I mentioned being involved in campaigns aginst them, to make clear I hate them!) This is just the same nonsense like the discussion going on in germany a.t.m. if computer games cause kids to get a gun and shoot teachers in their school, its just stupid!
I may get slammed for this,but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is so much anti-americanism in Europe and in the forums now that they are going to try and get SH4 canceled in favor of their darling little Nazis and U-boats again. You'd think that the USA was the enemy in WW2 and not the Germans with the way some people fawn over the Germans and denigrate what the USA did in the war.
*more ranting canceled due to the fact that it would get me banned from these boards so fast everyone's heads would spin,if I don't get banned for what I already said...heh*
Damn right you will get slammed for that! Dont you DARE accuse us of being 'anti american' on the basis that we prefer the atlantic theatre for the game. Do us a favour - put down you flag, switch your brain back on and grow up man
HundertzehnGustav
12-22-06, 06:15 AM
So, once the learning curve is flattened I'm sure all of the ETO gurus will enjoy having an extra 2 torpedos at either end of thier sub they otherwise wouldn't have. That in itself is a wonderful thang!....
in a intelligent way i can only LOL at that.
BUT, my friend... werent the Yankee tubes smaller, and their Torpedoes weaker?
Discussion...
y the feckker should i have weak (smaller diameter, smaller warhead?)torpedoes so that the extra number of tubes is taken up by the lack of destructive power?
Can the Yanqui torpedoes be copmpared/hold up to the standard of our beloved german FAT quality/destruction/attack powers F.A.T. Torpedoes?
aaaah lets google and learn.
lety wait and see
lets play SH IV and discuss.
lets mod and make it "more real"
tets have a good time and chill out after work and sex and food.
i am an EU guy myself, only love carrier operations in the pacific (Seafires and corsairs) and do not care anout politics...
US Subs were bigger than the U-Boats, I think a Gato was comparable to a Type IX in size. They had slightly weaker pressure hulls. I dont know if torps were weaker, but they had more tubes.....about 6 bow and 4 stern on a Gato!? (correct me if wrong)
Godalmighty83
12-22-06, 10:06 AM
i wouldnt buy sh4 if it was set in either the eto or pto on one reason... no brit subs. iam tired of us vs germany how many sh's must i wait for one single brit sub.
Like I said in a posting erlier here, dont know where now........what I really would love is a subsim that worked like IL2 sturmovik, where you can choose between US, German, British, Japanese and maybe Russian submarines to play a campaign on.
The problem I think is that other countries except Germany and the USA, didn't rely on or use many submarines. For example the British navy hadn't nearly as much subs as germany had, they focused on big surface ships. (Submarines are a very "un-english" Weapon, like a guy from that BBC documentation about WW1 said)
This is the reason why the most famous Submarine operations were with german or US subs, which simply provides the most stuff and opportunities to create a subsim on.
fire-fox
12-22-06, 11:50 AM
Like I said in a posting erlier here, dont know where now........what I really would love is a subsim that worked like IL2 sturmovik, where you can choose between US, German, British, Japanese and maybe Russian submarines to play a campaign on.
The problem I think is that other countries except Germany and the USA, didn't rely on or use many submarines. For example the British navy hadn't nearly as much subs as germany had, they focused on big surface ships. (Submarines are a very "un-english" Weapon, like a guy from that BBC documentation about WW1 said)
This is the reason why the most famous Submarine operations were with german or US subs, which simply provides the most stuff and opportunities to create a subsim on.
i IRMO didnt the RN have more subs than the KM at the start of the war.
Possible, but they never built much more in favour of building DD's to hunt down the german ones.
So, once the learning curve is flattened I'm sure all of the ETO gurus will enjoy having an extra 2 torpedos at either end of thier sub they otherwise wouldn't have. That in itself is a wonderful thang!....
in a intelligent way i can only LOL at that.
BUT, my friend... werent the Yankee tubes smaller, and their Torpedoes weaker?
Discussion...
y the feckker should i have weak (smaller diameter, smaller warhead?)torpedoes so that the extra number of tubes is taken up by the lack of destructive power?
Can the Yanqui torpedoes be copmpared/hold up to the standard of our beloved german FAT quality/destruction/attack powers F.A.T. Torpedoes?
aaaah lets google and learn.
lety wait and see
lets play SH IV and discuss.
lets mod and make it "more real"
tets have a good time and chill out after work and sex and food.
i am an EU guy myself, only love carrier operations in the pacific (Seafires and corsairs) and do not care anout politics...
Actually....I wasn't trying to insult your intelligences, HundertzehnGustav, nor anyone else for that matter. I was speaking strickly from a gammers stand point about the available on-demand fire power at the click of your finger tips. So, if however, I came across that way I apologize to you for that faux pas. And of course that extends to all who may have taken exception to my earlier post.
Getting back to gamming matters....The Gato type did have 4 extra torpedo tubes and yes the torpedos had a severe realiability problem on 3 levels. Depth keeping, magnetic trigger, and contact trigger. These issues were not fully resolved till August of 1943. The fish were the same diameter as U-boat eels.
So let me offer a little tip and this worked in SH1 as well. Because of the initial design of the Contact Trigger the Mk 14 torpedos actually had a greater probability of exploding against the target's hull if the impact was from a glancing angle rather than a perpendicular impact or right angle impact. I'd say a 120 degree setup is best. There were several skippers during the war who figured it out and used this approach with success. This information can be verified on the web.
bigboywooly
12-22-06, 06:20 PM
I doubt I will cross over to SHIV
The Atlantic theatre is my passion
Plenty of different nations - just a pity only the German side playable
The PTO has no draw for me at all
Camaero
12-22-06, 06:51 PM
I will most likely get SHIV but I have to say, I just have a thing for U-boats in the Atlantic.
It would be nice to play as an American for once though. (Being as though I am one and all.:D )
Navarre
12-22-06, 07:13 PM
There are not those hardcore subsim players, who are organize themselves in special sim forums like here, because this group will buy SH4 anyway no matter which nation and theater is simulated. Only with this group no publisher can successfully marked out a (sub)simulation today into financial success, it is the large majority of casual gamers, who made SH3 successfully in sales. And those gamers would play in dear an outsider role, the enemy, the bad guys rather than again and again the US heroes in a game, they are bored of this role from to many WWII shooters and strategy games.But this group, Ubisoft must gain for itself, otherwise they can directly forget the sales impact of SH4 and exactly this knows the responsible persons at the Ubisoft headquarter in Paris.
There are not those hardcore subsim players, who are organize themselves in special sim forums like here, because this group will buy SH4 anyway no matter which nation and theater is simulated. Only with this group no publisher can successfully marked out a (sub)simulation today into financial success, it is the large majority of casual gamers, who made SH3 successfully in sales. And those gamers would play in dear an outsider role, the enemy, the bad guys rather than again and again the US heroes in a game, they are bored of this role from to many WWII shooters and strategy games.But this group, Ubisoft must gain for itself, otherwise they can directly forget the sales impact of SH4 and exactly this knows the responsible persons at the Ubisoft headquarter in Paris.
Thats just what I was trying to say earlier. Until someone fixed this view on simulations. The thing is I meant computer games of all kinds set in a rather realistic or historical plot. In most of them, you play americans. In most of these games, its just one guy shooting thousands of bad guys....but lets just be honest, even the USA cannot go to war like that. ;) I for myself found arcade style shooters or something rather boring, you just don't need to use your brain for them.
You are totally right about that point that occassional sim games made SH3 successful, but you also notice that stock SH3 seemed like an arcade game to us.
I found out that Ubisoft saying that the game was so full of options of realism to make it attective to both the arcade gamer and simmers like us was little more than a lie, since it took us nearly 2 Years to get SH3 realistic with GWX and/or other mods. Now I wonder what that Oesten Interviews were for, I also wonder if that guy -he should be in his mid 90s now- played SH3 afterwards and shook his head about the realism mistakes made. :lol:
To all modders, this means you are NEVER going to rest, because all subsims now will be made like that for the commercial reason.
I will get Sh4, because I', quite nosy about it, for the graphics, and to expand my historical education about the pacific war. But like I said, it just lacks that atlantic thing......well let's compare it to.....ummm....Star Trek, the 24th century in there never got the atmosphere of the 23rd IMHO.
Schatten
12-22-06, 11:45 PM
Once again, I have to say that the bulk of the simulations out recently have not, repeat not, had anything to do with the US in WWII. Shooters don't count because they're not simulations and shooters is where you get the "killing of 1000s of bad guys."
I agree with you that the political "Nazi" junk earlier was very uncalled for. But from the past few posts here from Europeans I'm beginning to wonder if you guys really do think all Americans only know what we get from watching movies. Surprisingly enough there are some of us that get our history the old fashioned way, some of us even have degrees in it. Give us a little credit and don't be upset if we're happy to finally get a WWII subsim with the US in it.
Safe-Keeper
12-23-06, 05:58 AM
On-topic:
I wouldn't mind the addition of European operations into Silent Hunter 4, but I have bad feelings that I'd be dragged into it and that there'd be a Norwegian Operations 2 from me soon enough:-?.
Off-topic:
I may get slammed for this,but I'm starting to get the feeling that there is so much anti-americanism in Europe and in the forums now that they are going to try and get SH4 canceled in favor of their darling little Nazis and U-boats again. You'd think that the USA was the enemy in WW2 and not the Germans with the way some people fawn over the Germans and denigrate what the USA did in the war.True.
As for those of you offended, no one is accusing you of anything. But it does hold true that there's lots of critisism of America in Europe and elsewhere that is simply not rational. Whether or not it's the cause of 80% of Europeans not wanting a sub campaign in the Pacific Theatre is more uncertain;).
@MRV: "Anti-Nazi-Campaign"? LOL. Go ahead. Would your bunch be made up by the same kind of people who constantly cry "No War!!!" (but only if the US/Israel are involved in any way) and would have no problem with Iran getting the nuke to wipe Israel off the map? This is a rhetorical question btw. I know the answer to that one.Happy Holidays to you too [/sarcasm].
Surprisingly enough there are some of us that get our history the old fashioned way, some of us even have degrees in it.:rotfl: Well said.
Once again, I have to say that the bulk of the simulations out recently have not, repeat not, had anything to do with the US in WWII. Shooters don't count because they're not simulations and shooters is where you get the "killing of 1000s of bad guys."
I agree with you that the political "Nazi" junk earlier was very uncalled for. But from the past few posts here from Europeans I'm beginning to wonder if you guys really do think all Americans only know what we get from watching movies. Surprisingly enough there are some of us that get our history the old fashioned way, some of us even have degrees in it. Give us a little credit and don't be upset if we're happy to finally get a WWII subsim with the US in it.
:rotfl:Nevermind, I can assure you that very few in europe think that way about US citizens. When I mentioned movies, I meant the influence movies have on our like and dislike of different scenarios, not the historical education of people. This applies to Americans as well as to europeans.
Some moderator should redirect this topic...Back to the starting matter...I'm European and a big fan of U-Boats, but I prefer a SH4 dedicated to the Pacific, and then -even if not the slightest progress is done technically-, a second game with the very same engine and with U-Boats. They have already all the 3D stuff created for Sh3, so it shouldn't be as difficult as creating a whole new game. The reason of my position? I don't want interferences in such an advanced project as SH4 is. SH3 was redirected to add the dynamic campaign which was great, but as a result some other things were not developed completely and some bugs appeared (Don't get me wrong I still prefer it as it is now with dynamic campiagn and bugs that bugfree and with no dynamic campaign). SH4 has been planned almost perfectly from the start, and interferences like adding SH3 contents would only mean a chance to let bugs and unfinished stuff make its way to the game. So no SH3 contents, thanks.
Some moderator should redirect this topic...Back to the starting matter...I'm European and a big fan of U-Boats, but I prefer a SH4 dedicated to the Pacific, and then -even if not the slightest progress is done technically-, a second game with the very same engine and with U-Boats. They have already all the 3D stuff created for Sh3, so it shouldn't be as difficult as creating a whole new game. The reason of my position? I don't want interferences in such an advanced project as SH4 is. SH3 was redirected to add the dynamic campaign which was great, but as a result some other things were not developed completely and some bugs appeared (Don't get me wrong I still prefer it as it is now with dynamic campiagn and bugs that bugfree and with no dynamic campaign). SH4 has been planned almost perfectly from the start, and interferences like adding SH3 contents would only mean a chance to let bugs and unfinished stuff make its way to the game. So no SH3 contents, thanks.
This is somewhat logical. I don't think it would be possible to do the conversion in the release version of SH4 anyways. The Game already has a planned release date and to do the conversion would delay the game and as you said screw it up.
I thought of the conversion as an addon.
Schatten
12-23-06, 06:19 PM
Yeah I wouldn't want them to delay releasing SH IV any just to port in the SH III stuff right from the get go. But an expansion pack or even a step by step for modders to take SH III content and plug it into SH IV would be the way to go.
If they did an "insertion" step by step guide, then I'm sure the modders would even be able to figure out how to add Brit and Dutch subs and then everyone would be happy...I'd actually like to see some Italian ones as well but hey beggars can't be choosers. The Devs did say that the Atlantic was modelled but it was just empty, so there are a whole range of possibilities ranging from a Dev made expansion pack, to modded insertions, to even a "workaround". I've been thinking about workarounds for SH III myself, but since IV will be out soon(-ish) I'll wait and see what sort of things the Devs give us before planning seriously anything out; plus with work...well you know how it goes.
The Il-2 Forgotten Battles concept of merged installs would work too, but you'd definately need either an SDK and committed teams to pull that off, or convince the Devs that it'd be profitable for them to do.
Shaffer4
12-24-06, 05:13 PM
I would really like the options to experiance the conflict from the perspective of each nation involved. I'm anticipating SH4 because it will involve a theatre I (as a gamer) have little experiance with (other than Pacific Fighters). Il-2 is probably my favorite sim of all time (right up there with Mig-Alley).
rascal101
12-24-06, 05:54 PM
This is interesting, I support any moves to bring SH3 up to match SH4, I wish some one would do the same with Shgun Total War and bring it up to speed with Medieval 2 Total War.
As I have said on this forum previously, playing a US sub in the pacific would be a challenge up until about late 1943, after which the US had Japan pretty well beat, at least in Naval terms.
A U-Boat sim offers more of a challenge as you can play throughout the war, with every patrol getting to be more of a challenge as the war progresses.
None of my comments is in any way meant as a critisism of the US or its war effort, I'm simply looking at it from a dedicated sub simmer's point of view, I'm not much interested in sinking sampans or junks or rescuing downed allied airmen or photographing installations, which despite great graphics would be about what SH4 would be after 1943
iA german game magazine reports in its current issue, that at present Ubisoft is discussed to integrate the contents of SH3 into SH4.
The reasons for this can be so far the bad resonance of the gamers opposite to the Pacific scenario and US subs, because outside the US forums the Pacific scenario is not a big bang. In inquiries on EU gaming forums, 80% rather like to play again German boats in the Atlantic. And many players write that they will not buy SH4, because of dislike US subs or no interest for the scenario. Perhaps not to loose a majority of the EU customer, Ubisoft consider the steps of intergrating SH3 content into the polished SH4 engine.
Iron Budokan
12-31-06, 12:35 PM
I'm an American. I have never had my patriotism called into question. Having said that even I prefer an Atlantic game but will happily go out and buy SHIV when it comes out, Japanese AI subs or no Japanese AI subs.
I came to subsims through Silent Service II which was an American Pacific subsim. Loved it! But once SH3 came out I loved that more.
Anyway...look what the modders did for SH3. Anything they can possibly help with when SH4 comes out...well, I have a lot of faith in them expecially after seeing GWX.
Iron Budokan
12-31-06, 12:37 PM
I wish some one would do the same with Shgun Total War and bring it up to speed with Medieval 2 Total War.
Oh, man, I so agree. Why have we had two Medievals and only one Shogun? That's criminal. I much prefer the Shogun myself and have no interest whatsoever in Medieval (though I did like Rome TW)...oh, well.
I think it´s true that the Pacific theatre is a bit of an orphan child, but that´s not only because of the media. One obvious reason might be that the Pacific is a far away and exotic battlefield for most people, not only for Europeans. But there are some solid matter-of-fact points, too, that make the Pacific theatre less interesting to many people:
- the war began slowly and was led in a rather dull way on both sides in the beginning: the sub-skippers´ training was theoretical and unrealistic, it was based on the assumption that subs are stationary surprise weapons against Battleships and that subs always attack at periscope depth.
- American Military Doctrine was reluctant to use subs aggressively - as they over-estimated Japanese countermeasures like sonar they taught their skippers to be (over)cautios. Bringing back the crew and the sub was the primary goal, which led to half-hearted attacks
- the skippers were totally unexperienced and - due to their bad training - over-cautios and lacked aggression. They did not rely on their subs, over-estimated the Japanese sonar and avoided any danger (by the way: US skippers were way older than those of any other Navy)
Because of this, after the first year one-third of ALL US-skippers had been replaced!
- the subs were ineffective for a long time due to torpedo duds. This also led to frustration.
- the Japanese military doctrine wasn´t really prepared for a submarine war. Destroyer crews were totally unexperinced and gave up hunting a sub after one or two attempts.
- later in war US-subs were very successful while Japan got weaker and weaker. In the last year of war there weren´t actually any "enemies" left for the US subs.
Now back to SH4: the consequences for a realistic (!) sub-simulation are that hunting will be frustrating in the first 18 months because of a ridiculously high amount of dud torpedoes, while being hunted will be boring because the Japanese destroyers were just lousy sub-hunters and no real threat.
Then there will be a small period of time where there will be some fun, but again - the Pacific is HUGE and traffic is few.
The last year will be boring because there is no real enemy and no challenge any longer.
Another point that reduces the tension is the very nature of US-submarine warfare: the subs relied on their radar, it took almost a minute to "crash"-dive, there was not much threat from planes - so there won´t be many thrilling situations like being attacked by a plane, diving fast etc. Everything will run a bit smoother and slower.
If we also consider that the Pacific war only started in Dec. 1941 and in 1944/45 subwar was practically over, there´s not much time left for thrilling fights.
I mention these points only to make clear that the Pacific scenario has some disadvantages compared to the Atlantic, and the reasons are objective ones, they finally touch gameplay issues. This does not mean that I won´t buy SH4. On the contrary, I´m looking forward to a change and I´m just building the GATO Revell-model kit (1/72) which looks very impressive (my VIIc 1/72 scale model looks so tiny compared to the Gato).
However, after SH4, let´s go back to the Atlantic in SH5, please!
By the way: All the information I´ve used above are from American and British authors/journalists, among them Peter Padfield, who wrote a very interesting book called "War beneath the Sea"
Cheers, AS
Sailor Steve
01-03-07, 11:21 AM
AS, I agree with almost all of your points, except for the last year of the war. The hunting may well be easy, and the risk low, but US subs actually sank almost the same number of ships and incurred the same tonnage in 1945 as in 1942. It may be boring but the targets are still there.
I've never heard of Padfield's submarine book, but I do have his excellent Guns At Sea, as well as his biography of Himmler.
Padfield is a British author, his book conveys the U-Boat-, US, British and Japanese submartine war. It´s well written and combines political/historical background information and single events - good fun to read and very informative.
I hear that the DevTeam says there will be special missions especially in the last year like rescueing pilots etc. so they seem to be aware of that problem and do something against it, which I appreciate very much.
Anyaway, I´m looking forward to hitting the Pacific...
Cheers, AS
caspofungin
01-05-07, 03:21 PM
personally, i feel the battle of the atlantic makes for a more dramatic setting for a game. as stated above, there's a continual increase in tension and danger as the war goes on and asw tactics improve. there's a continuing development of technologies on either side (most of which weren't touched in sh3 -- fido's, radar decoys, hfdf and the german "kourier" response, etc.) as wella s tactics.
the battle of the atlantic was also a close-run thing -- if a game counted tonnage sunk in a real dynamic campaign, you as an individual could make a difference. whereas in the pacific, by the end of the war, the combo of us subs and air strikes had pretty much wiped out the jap merchant fleet.
either way, whichever setting is in a game, it's up to the developers to make the player feel the sense of drama or tension. if they don't get that right, it doesn't matter where the action takes place, 'cause the game will suck.
Totally agreed. You pretty much sum it up!
Anyway, let´s go to the Pacific for a change, then, after a while, let´s park our Gato at some lovely beach and wait for SH5 back in the Atlantic.:rock:
Takeda Shingen
01-06-07, 06:53 AM
I'm looking forward to finally returning to the Pacific. I am kind of burnt-out on the Kriegsmarine.
By the way, the Mr. Eastwood has seen to it that the PTO recieved some decent cinematic attention this year. Flags of our Fathers was well-done, and Letters from Iwo Jima was magnificent.
Iron Budokan
01-07-07, 11:52 AM
Why? SH4 will be a superior sim with fewer bugs and much better graphics and gameplay elements.
My fingers are crossed....
Immacolata
01-07-07, 01:32 PM
I'm looking forward to finally returning to the Pacific. I am kind of burnt-out on the Kriegsmarine.
Yes, I agree very much. It is time to switch scenarios, and there's only a few viable submarine scenarios for simulations: WWII Atlantic, WWII Pacific and WW3-ish thing like Red Storm Rising.
hyperion2206
01-07-07, 03:55 PM
I just read a preview on this page http://www.4players.de/4players.php/dispbericht/PC-CDROM/First%20Facts/8522/5073/0/Silent_Hunter_IV_Wolves_of_the_Pacific.html (German) and there it says and I quote:
" - als Bonus ist der Atlantik mit allen aus SH3 bekannten Konvois enthalten"
translated: as a bonus they integrated the atlantic theatre with all concoys from SH3.
If that's true that would be awesome!!!!!!:D:up::rock:
Immacolata
01-07-07, 04:37 PM
Indeed, it would perhaps mean that it is possible to try SH3 in SH4's engine. Now that would be the penultimate submariner bliss :)
Hmmmm... why would they implement the SH3 Atlantic routes "as a bonus"?:hmm: As a US skipper you wouldn´t go to the Atlantic and sink British convoys... so what´s the point? If there is no obvious point, it might be (glimpse of hope!!!) that there will be a Atlantic U-Boat add-on based on SH4. Likely? :yep:
Cheers, AS
hyperion2206
01-08-07, 04:53 AM
Hmmmm... why would they implement the SH3 Atlantic routes "as a bonus"?:hmm: As a US skipper you wouldn´t go to the Atlantic and sink British convoys... so what´s the point? If there is no obvious point, it might be (glimpse of hope!!!) that there will be a Atlantic U-Boat add-on based on SH4. Likely? :yep:
Cheers, AS
I think that they tried to say that they implemented SH3, meaning that you can either play as an American skipper in the pacific or to continue to fight for Germany in the Atlantic. The only question remaining is: Will SH3 be the same or will the graphics be enhanced to meat the SH4 standards?:roll:
Hmmmm... why would they implement the SH3 Atlantic routes "as a bonus"?:hmm: As a US skipper you wouldn´t go to the Atlantic and sink British convoys... so what´s the point? If there is no obvious point, it might be (glimpse of hope!!!) that there will be a Atlantic U-Boat add-on based on SH4. Likely? :yep:
Cheers, AS
I think that they tried to say that they implemented SH3, meaning that you can either play as an American skipper in the pacific or to continue to fight for Germany in the Atlantic. The only question remaining is: Will SH3 be the same or will the graphics be enhanced to meat the SH4 standards?:roll:
I don´t think so, if this really was the case they would make a big issue out of it, I mean, come on, most people on this forum would prefer the Atlantic scenario (see poll), and you mean here it´ll come as "a bonus"???:o Not likely, but of course would be great (and improve sales, I´m sure)
Personally, I wouldn´t mind spending lots of money on an add-on, when it´s well done.
Cheers, AS
TwistedFemur
01-08-07, 06:45 PM
Combineing SH3 and SH4?
that would be cool then I could try a uranium oxide mission.
http://www.ww2pacific.com/u-234.html
sail out of Kiel on a u-boat and meet up with an I-boat in the eastern indian ocean.
hyperion2206
01-09-07, 09:20 AM
Hmmmm... why would they implement the SH3 Atlantic routes "as a bonus"?:hmm: As a US skipper you wouldn´t go to the Atlantic and sink British convoys... so what´s the point? If there is no obvious point, it might be (glimpse of hope!!!) that there will be a Atlantic U-Boat add-on based on SH4. Likely? :yep:
Cheers, AS
I think that they tried to say that they implemented SH3, meaning that you can either play as an American skipper in the pacific or to continue to fight for Germany in the Atlantic. The only question remaining is: Will SH3 be the same or will the graphics be enhanced to meat the SH4 standards?:roll:
I don´t think so, if this really was the case they would make a big issue out of it, I mean, come on, most people on this forum would prefer the Atlantic scenario (see poll), and you mean here it´ll come as "a bonus"???:o Not likely, but of course would be great (and improve sales, I´m sure)
Personally, I wouldn´t mind spending lots of money on an add-on, when it´s well done.
Cheers, AS
I guess what they're doing: They ship SH4 with a bonus cd/dvd with SH3 on it and charge you twice as much as you would pay for SH4 alone!:arrgh!:
well, if I were them I would do the same, I guess. Let´s not forget those guys are trying to make a living from what they do, we as the fans and addicted tend to forget that this is about business for THEM (especially for the publisher).
I´d pay the price as I think the more money they make the more effort will they put in the next submarine. Maybe my point is a bit weird, but I want commercial success for our beloved genre to keep it alive. I even bought Shells of Fury, though I admitt I regreted it...
Cheers, AS
To me the drama starts with "Ships Spotted" and/or "Enemy is pinging us sir"
I assume that happens in the Pacific as well.
A game may be set in a certain theater and tried to be made realistic, but the game has to have the fun factor. I would think and hope SHIV would be made fun.
Historically, the Atlantic is a bigger drama. It was hotly contested and a huge amount of resources went to it.
To me, it comes down to one sub and ships to sink. At the core, what's the difference.
elite_hunter_sh3
01-09-07, 07:49 PM
well for sh3 i am close to starting to getting into the game engine code FOR MY SELF ONLY(for now when im done im gonna talk to ubi about possible sh3 exp) my plan is
1.get into the sh3 hard coded game engine
2. make it shader model 2.0 and change graphics
3. make uboat behaivor and AI more reliastic(implement thermal layer)
4.MAKE AI UBOATS THAT CAN DIVE AND FIRE TORPS AND KILL targets and communicate with you(it wil prolly be bumped down to last thing as it will be the hardest to code.
4. add more uboats weapons types minelayers better dynamic campaign etc..
will update in future for the list
MORE TO COME!! hopefully i will be finished this exp in about 2-3 months.
cheers :sunny:
azn_132
01-09-07, 09:03 PM
well for sh3 i am close to starting to getting into the game engine code FOR MY SELF ONLY(for now when im done im gonna talk to ubi about possible sh3 exp) my plan is
1.get into the sh3 hard coded game engine
2. make it shader model 2.0 and change graphics
3. make uboat behaivor and AI more reliastic(implement thermal layer)
4.MAKE AI UBOATS THAT CAN DIVE AND FIRE TORPS AND KILL targets and communicate with you(it wil prolly be bumped down to last thing as it will be the hardest to code.
4. add more uboats weapons types minelayers better dynamic campaign etc..
will update in future for the list
MORE TO COME!! hopefully i will be finished this exp in about 2-3 months.
cheers :sunny:
By that time SH4 will be out so are u sure ur goin to do all of that? Also, are u goin to make it for GWX, stock or Sh4?
elite_hunter_sh3
01-09-07, 11:33 PM
basically its gonna be SH4 graphics or very very close to it and it will be started off from stock as GWX made many many changes, when i finish the mod it will have many of the things the public has asked for that the modders never implemented like AI uboat warfare thermal layer modeling, more assormtnet of uboats and different uboat weapons and upgrades and textures, keep in my mind my first goal will be to get into the hard coding of the game engine as it is being piled over by all these game files, my second goal will be graphics shader model 2.0 or if the moment arrives and i figure out to do i will use shader model 3 , i will place a post tommorw outlining what i plan to do.
well for sh3 i am close to starting to getting into the game engine code FOR MY SELF ONLY(for now when im done im gonna talk to ubi about possible sh3 exp) my plan is
1.get into the sh3 hard coded game engine
2. make it shader model 2.0 and change graphics
3. make uboat behaivor and AI more reliastic(implement thermal layer)
4.MAKE AI UBOATS THAT CAN DIVE AND FIRE TORPS AND KILL targets and communicate with you(it wil prolly be bumped down to last thing as it will be the hardest to code.
4. add more uboats weapons types minelayers better dynamic campaign etc..
will update in future for the list
MORE TO COME!! hopefully i will be finished this exp in about 2-3 months.
cheers :sunny:
I personally don't think the SH4 gameplay will be to diverted from vanilla SH3, which would mean that before any of us could consider playing the game realistic, we have to torture our beloved GWX-Team again. ;)
I hope that IF SH3 is included in SH4 (which, I think, will be vanilla SH3 with Sh4 graphics then) at least the gameplay changes die community did in the past 2 years are compatible with this.
@Elite Hunter: Hey, you sure you´ll be able to get into the code and do all that stuff? Who are you, a hacker and programmer???:o And why do you come up with it 2 years after SH3 was published???:roll:
If I´m just a nosy spoilsport, I´ll apologize on my virtual knees:oops::yep:
@Elite Hunter: Hey, you sure you´ll be able to get into the code and do all that stuff? Who are you, a hacker and programmer???:o And why do you come up with it 2 years after SH3 was published???:roll:
Because Ubisoft would have him shot then :D
elite_hunter_sh3
01-10-07, 01:13 PM
and well earlier i didnt have the exp to do this type of stuff and no i am not a hacker i dont like having a criminal record and having a pointless life in the comp :-?
and yes i was a programmer and i stopped but now im getting back into it again with the help of my neighbor whos a master programmer and fyi im still in high school the reason y im starting to mod the game is because i have a programming course next semester that starts in a few weeks so i jus wanna make sh3 look like sh4 AND add stuff that everyone wanted that was never added by the dev team from ubisoft , like AI uboats wolfpacks etc. and a better dynamic campaign with milkcows that actually after refitting give u a new grid etc... and have crewman running aorund in ships, like i said last nite later on today i will make a new thread detailing my outline on wat i am and plan to do to sh3:up: :up: :sunny:
Well, if this was possible it would be another milestone both for SH3 and the modding scene. Although I´m doubtful I wish you the very best!
Cheers, AS
their darling little Nazis and U-boats again. You'd think that the USA was the enemy in WW2 and not the Germans with the way some people fawn over the Germans and denigrate what the USA did in the war.
Actually, I find that pretty offensive.
I am British, and therefore European. Therefore, in my nation's historical experience, the U-boats almost brought this nation to its knees - TWICE.
My grandfather spent six years of his life on the Atlantic in a V&W class (HMS Vannoc) trying to sink U-Boats.
Therefore, both culturally and within my own family, there is already an established interest in U-Boats that has nothing to do with 'darling nazis'.
Furthermore, it is possible to like both but prefer one over the other. I recently became interested in the Pacific Submarine campaign when I got a copy of SILENT WAR by Compass Games, and have been spending lots of time on that. But, I'd rather take on U-Boats for indivdual patrols, and play as the US in the Pacific at the strategic level.
The two are very different campaigns - teh US start weak and then eventually trump the Japanese to the point where it became hard to find anything to sink. For the Germans, it is the opposite with the war getting harder and harder. The Germans also had less distance to travel to find targets. For the US based at Pearl, it is a LONG LONG way to find the Japanese, which is perhaps not as exciting.
So as the game goes on, the US will have less and less threats to worry about - for the Germans, there are more planes, better destroyers, etc etc.
Most gamers prefer to take the side that lost and try and do better. U-boats sank more shipping than the US navy in actual tonnage, and were also at war for longer. There was never any doubt that the US would beat the Japanese - it was just a question of time, and even with dud torpedoes, under-investement and a long delay before the Gatos arrived, the US Submarine service effectivly emptied the Pacific of Japanese shipping.
In 1941 for the British in the Atlantic that was not the case with the Germans. They were sinking more boats than the UK could build... they came close to defeating the UK. The US never even had to introduce rationing or coastal black-outs.
So, without anyone being anti-American, there are already valid reasons why U-boats appeal more than the Pacific for the subject of a game.
As much as RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP is a great film, DAS BOOT is one that seems to strike a chord with more people. I find that it captures my imagination more, in the sense that RSRD is a good ripping yarn, and Das Boot is more of a documentary.
So I think that post was pretty rude, ignorant, and really only helps add to anti-American feelings by trying to associate liking one game with being some nazi supporter.
Let us not let this great web community fall foul like so many forums around the web to petty Americans and Europeans trying to pick fights with one another.
I dont understand why some people are so opposed to the pacific theatre....
I do in some respects prefer the Atlantic but im defanatly not dissapointed by SH4s setting.
The Pacific theatre must have been the largest naval theatre in history, with Americas industrial might pouring out countless thousands of war and merchant ships into the Pacific. And of course it was the pacific theatre that saw the most powerful naval vessles of the war brought to bear. Also at the start of the war the IJN was hardly the underdog of the war as they had a iron grip of the whole pacific and a huge navy. ;)
and well earlier i didnt have the exp to do this type of stuff and no i am not a hacker i dont like having a criminal record and having a pointless life in the comp :-?
and yes i was a programmer and i stopped but now im getting back into it again with the help of my neighbor whos a master programmer and fyi im still in high school the reason y im starting to mod the game is because i have a programming course next semester that starts in a few weeks so i jus wanna make sh3 look like sh4 AND add stuff that everyone wanted that was never added by the dev team from ubisoft , like AI uboats wolfpacks etc. and a better dynamic campaign with milkcows that actually after refitting give u a new grid etc... and have crewman running aorund in ships, like i said last nite later on today i will make a new thread detailing my outline on wat i am and plan to do to sh3:up: :up: :sunny:
You do sound very optimistic. It's a mountain of a task you plan on taking on by yourself in a very short period of time. I wish you good luck :up:
Will GWX still be compatible?
I will enjoy SH4 as long as they add in some more mission types like in the original SH.
Missions like photographing an enemy harbor,rescuing downed pilots etc. etc.
This will really make it enjoyable as you will have something different to do...that way you can be in the middle of a patrol and get a radio message telling you to go to such and such a location and pick up a pilot or take photos of such and such a port.
However if they make it like SH3 and just have you moving around sinking ship after ship that will get rather old and boring fast.At least with other missions it will add some flavor to the game.
As for the converting of SH3 to SH4 I doubt they would have any problems as it is the exact same game engine being used...SH4 is simply an updated version of SH3's game engine.
Now whether they will or not is left to be seen..they changed release dates and pushed SH3 back just so they could add in the communities want for a dynamic campaign.So anything is possible.
Those types of missions have already been confirmed by the dev team.
azn_132
01-23-07, 05:23 PM
I dont understand why some people are so opposed to the pacific theatre....
I do in some respects prefer the Atlantic but im defanatly not dissapointed by SH4s setting.
The Pacific theatre must have been the largest naval theatre in history, with Americas industrial might pouring out countless thousands of war and merchant ships into the Pacific. And of course it was the pacific theatre that saw the most powerful naval vessles of the war brought to bear. Also at the start of the war the IJN was hardly the underdog of the war as they had a iron grip of the whole pacific and a huge navy. ;)
Battle of Leyte Gulf the world's largest naval battle of course.
dertien
01-23-07, 08:27 PM
IMHO Including SH3 content doesn't necessarily involve bugs,
The possibility of reusing content that has been modeled like for example 3D interiors could be reused, even if it isn't completely accurate. I don't really know on what U-boat interiors the developers of SH3 based themselves on, but there's plenty of film material online involving that topic and they can get it right.
Some people Favour the Pacific (American) theatre and others (like myself) prefer the Atlantic (German) theatre. And indeed I could blame "Das Boot" that I've watched 7 or 8 times already.
How should UBI and the developers cross the bridge towards their customers IMHO ?
- Make SH IV a standalone game at the price they sold SH3 for without the bugs.
- Learn the lessons from the Modding Community from SH3 which have done a superb job creating GWX and NYGM and making the almost perfect U-boat simulator experience including the extensive ship content addons and improving the game fysics and WWII's close to real historical accuracy.
- Make a seperate SH IV ADDON DISK featuring the Atlantic theatre adding all the content learned from the SH 3 modding community. And putting this CD on the shelf for a quarter of the price of SH4.
-Allow for the making of addons such as in SH3 without changing the engine too much allowing the modding community to pick up the thread quite easily when merging from SH3 to SH4
I for myself hope that the SH3 modding community will not turn their backs to SH3 immediately and continue to make additional content (Ships, Camapaigns, Navaids etc...) at least for some time.
I was anxiously waiting for SH3 to come out when I first saw the trailers in 2005 and I was drooling on my keyboard. I've been playing subgames for a veeeery long time now. Aces of the Deep was not my first sub sim. We are now 2 years later, and almost everything I wished for has come to SH3 in these 2 years thanks to the community. Things that should have been in the stock game in the first place. UBI got a lot of money it didn't deserve, and I hope they WILL listen to the community this time and make EVERYBODY happy.
Imagine Kaleuns and US sub commanders fighting it off online !
My final note: I will NOT buy SH4 if US subs are the only ones playable.
Shaffer4
01-23-07, 09:42 PM
SH5 back to germany? what about the Brittish, Aussie, or even Dutch subs? Russian? ;)
World War one?
we have more options than the same ole uboats.
how about including both allied and Axis subs in one sweet package? ;)
Too all:
Lets keep this thread on track please.
The original post was about importing the SH3 content into SH4 to enjoy the better engine.
Please, NO MORE posts about which theater is the better
Please, NO MORE posts about politics/Anti americans, Nazis etc.
McBeck - moderator mode engaged
I just read an article about Bohemia Interactive starting a project to convert the 5 years-old Operation Flashpiont to its succeessor, Armed Assault.
Now what do you think, should we urge the dev team to do this with SH3 and 4?:DIt would be great to see SH3 content in SH4, but I dont think it would be a job for our modders.
The Pacific Aces team who ported SH2 to the Pacific checked SH3 to see if it could be done. They never succeded :( The main reason is that the inside 3D could'nt be done, so eventhough the outside of the sub would look right, the inside would be a german sub. Also the units were never made to be user controlled.
The port of content must be done by someone with access to the applications used to import the 3D into the engine...
dertien
01-24-07, 10:16 AM
[quote=MRV] They never succeded :( The main reason is that the inside 3D could'nt be done, so eventhough the outside of the sub would look right, the inside would be a german sub. Also the units were never made to be user controlled.
The port of content must be done by someone with access to the applications used to import the 3D into the engine...
EXACTLY MY POINT :up:
I just read an article about Bohemia Interactive starting a project to convert the 5 years-old Operation Flashpiont to its succeessor, Armed Assault.
Now what do you think, should we urge the dev team to do this with SH3 and 4?:DIt would be great to see SH3 content in SH4, but I dont think it would be a job for our modders.
The Pacific Aces team who ported SH2 to the Pacific checked SH3 to see if it could be done. They never succeded :( The main reason is that the inside 3D could'nt be done, so eventhough the outside of the sub would look right, the inside would be a german sub. Also the units were never made to be user controlled.
The port of content must be done by someone with access to the applications used to import the 3D into the engine...The most I have seen being done with SH3 as far as putting new models into it, can be found in the "homemade sub" article in the upcoming Subsim Almanac. :)
http://www.subsim.com/almanac/#sample
This is the material used at the Copenhagen Boat 2006:
http://www.silenthunter.dk/article/boatshow2006/kraka.avi
It demostrates the extend of putting new stuf into SH3
It would be nice to have SH3 somehow put into SH4. I'm looking foward to SH4 and the Pacific but I myself prefer the Atlantic.
I just hope the take the word "Sim" more serious this time!:hmm:
codmander
01-25-07, 09:00 AM
duhh if they didnt make money on sh3 there wouldnt be sh4 you can bet your bottom dollar sh5/6/7 right on down the line as long as the $ is there
Jimbuna
03-10-07, 11:30 AM
It would be nice to have SH3 somehow put into SH4. I'm looking foward to SH4 and the Pacific but I myself prefer the Atlantic.
I just hope the take the word "Sim" more serious this time!:hmm:
Keep the faith mate :yep: ....you just never know what is planned for the future :up:
Hartmann
03-10-07, 11:50 AM
The big problem could be the submarines interiors and external 3d models of subs and merchants.:hmm:
but until SH4 don´t be tested and explored by modders is impossible to know if is possible make new models or import things from SH3.
other thing is if ubi have any plan for release a sh4 expansion with an atlantic campaign or not, or allow the modding of some game files.
Deffenger
03-19-07, 05:41 PM
The Atlantic is better IMHO from a game play aspect. The capability of your Uboat and the enemy ASW are rising together, as you get better the enemy gets better too, which is better for game play. In the Pacific, as the US gets better, Japan gets worse. How can that be as much fun? That being said, I will get SH IV, because I enjoy SH III so much, and in anticipation of what the modding community will do to make it a better experience. They took what was a good game in SH III and made it an awesome immersive experience. They've set the bar pretty high for themselves with with SH III, here's hoping they can do as well for SH IV. I believe they'll do even better!
Ducimus
03-19-07, 05:58 PM
I think anyone who's done any work on either of the two SH3 supermods can tell you that converting SH4 into sh3 is a collassol endeavor, whos chances of sucess are slim.
There are so many obsticles to overcome, its not even funny.
Just for starters, you'd heve to replace existing subs with german models. I dont think anyones ever succeeded doing that in SH3, nor add extra player subs. And then theres the actual game world. The map is different, and what about grid assignemts? Theres a reason why GWX doesnt have a working grid system in the indian ocean.
To sum, This is a project that would be a couple years in the making, and for what? To do the exact same gameplay in SH3 but with prettier graphics? That's just not worth the effort. Now im not saying SH3 is a turd, but as they saying goes, you can polish a turd and what do you have? A polished turd, but a turd non the less.
A german game magazine reports in its current issue, that at present Ubisoft is discussed to integrate the contents of SH3 into SH4.
The reasons for this can be so far the bad resonance of the gamers opposite to the Pacific scenario and US subs, because outside the US forums the Pacific scenario is not a big bang. In inquiries on EU gaming forums, 80% rather like to play again German boats in the Atlantic. And many players write that they will not buy SH4, because of dislike US subs or no interest for the scenario. Perhaps not to loose a majority of the EU customer, Ubisoft consider the steps of intergrating SH3 content into the polished SH4 engine.
At first I was uninterested in the American side of things, even as an American, but that was largely due to ignorance of the huge role US subs had in the war. People will cross over once they realize what the theater offers.
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