Survivors Mod

[sonicninja]

Ahoy,

I think a great new addition to the GWX addon would be to see the crew of sinking ships bobbing about in the water, just for that little bit of extra realism.

Just a thought I wanted to share with my fellow shipmates :smug:

[_Seth_]

That would be cool. We should also be able to run over them...:rotfl::rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

Several modders have tried to do just that. The problem is that anything coming off the ship disapears after a few seconds. They tried forever to do lifeboats.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

OK, other than creating some multiplayer missions I'm not that familiar with the 'meat-and-bones' of the innards of the game. Does the career game spawn like you can do in the single/multiplayer missions? If so, could a lifeboat boat be designed, and set it to automatically spawn when it is specifically triggered, and have the trigger set for when a ship sinks?

What I'm thinking of is a brand-new ship class, called (heh) 'lifeboat'. When spawned, it spawns on the surface, at 0kt, located within 50 meters of the triggering event. The triggering event would be when a ship starts to sink (reaches 0 HP or floods enough to sink or is critically hit).

Is that possible?

p.s. If that is possible, you could then create another ship class, called 'survivor'. It would be drawn the shape and size of a person floating chest up in the water wearing a life preservoir, and again would spawn on the surface at 0kt.

[nightdagger]

Except for the class Survivor-Bernard. He would spawn at 1337 knots.

Seriously, that would add atmosphere but in the end wouldn't make much of a difference.

[TarJak]

There is a mod somewhere which has the "bodies" of sailors on targets getting thrown in the air. IIRC there was a lot of discussion about how to get the lifeboats to spawn in the mods threads somewhere. Dunno what became of it all. Sergbuto has a nice picture of a lifeboat on his site but no download. perhaps a PM might get a fuller explanation of why it's not there.

[hyperion2206]

That would be cool. We should also be able to run over them...:rotfl::rotfl:

That's not a good idea, unless you like to be court- martialed!:rotfl::lol:

[_Seth_]

That would be cool. We should also be able to run over them...:rotfl::rotfl:
That's not a good idea, unless you like to be court- martialed!:rotfl::lol:
:rotfl::rotfl:Well, we could blame Bernard......

Bernard (with his girlish voice) "Oh herr kaleun, herr kaleun, there are some cute men in the water!!! We have to help them!!"

Kaleun: "Nein, Dummkopf, theze are the enemy! We cannot pick them up, Dönitz orderz!!"

Bernard: "Jawohl, herr kaleun! (Bernard thinking: But i will still save those nice looking sailor boys! I will be the hero!!)

Epilog: After the Uboat speeded over the survivors at flank speed, Bernard still didnt realize what a stupid move he made...

[Melonfish]

"Herr Kaleun! we cannot close the bow caps!"

"why not?"

"we appear to have life jackets stuck in them..."


this is why they don't have floating sailors.
plus there's the whole using the flak gun on the survivors which is just plain evil.
pete

[Corsair]

Ahoy,

I think a great new addition to the GWX addon would be to see the crew of sinking ships bobbing about in the water, just for that little bit of extra realism.
How about them burning in the middle of oil spills or in SHIV being attacked by sharks while shouting for help ? That would be some realism...;)

PS : 2nd degree humor here... (just in case)

[Jimbuna]

Ahoy,

I think a great new addition to the GWX addon would be to see the crew of sinking ships bobbing about in the water, just for that little bit of extra realism.

Just a thought I wanted to share with my fellow shipmates :smug:

Tis a bit late for suggestions like that I'm afraid :hmm: ...beta testing GWX has just finished and is due to be released real soon :yep: Unless of course the final version has some additional components included that the Kpt. didn't tell us about :D

[_Seth_]

"Herr Kaleun! we cannot close the bow caps!"

"why not?"

"we appear to have life jackets stuck in them..."


this is why they don't have floating sailors.
plus there's the whole using the flak gun on the survivors which is just plain evil.
pete
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[andy_311]

Ahoy,

I think a great new addition to the GWX addon would be to see the crew of sinking ships bobbing about in the water, just for that little bit of extra realism.
How about them burning in the middle of oil spills or in SHIV being attacked by sharks while shouting for help ? That would be some realism...;)

PS : 2nd degree humor here... (just in case)

They don't burn I sailed through buring oil (I assume it burning oil sank a tanker and there was a fire on the surface)and my gun crew sailed straight through it not a scratch.

[AVGWarhawk]

I think a lot has to do with abandoning the life boat and survivors because these survivors would become either cannon fodder, flak gun fodder or propeller fodder. More or less became a morality issue for the original developers and modders.

[Captain_AJ]

That would be a nice effect , how about adding in something saving the crew or trowing out some provisions . Historically U captains tried to do a humanitarian effort by trying to save the severly wounded and than giving water or food for the survivors . But still In this sim Some Ships are hostille . I put a torp into a tramp steamer , but she didnt sink . So I rasied the boat and fired deck rounds into her . Low and behold the damm thing started firing at me with its deck gun . I shot another torpedo into her blowing her up . What was that Tommy Thinking . I was thinking like a gentleman . But he forced me to sink him rapidly .. As The aussies say .. BUGGER . The tramp steamer wasnt worth 2 torpedoes . Wasnt like it was a tanker or something . May we all last too the end of the war . so far very lucky . My boat was severly damaged in the last patrol . 3 corvettes are no match for a lone U-Boat . I luckly got away after 3 hours . Rough ride though ..

[Dowly]

It can be done by replacing the crates that are left popping up and down in the water after a ships sinks.

BUT

They will disappear very quickly, i.e. drown. And there´s a moral problem with that, do we want to see the sailors 'drown' before our eyes?

But if someone really wants to do it, there´s some nice floating pilot models in Pacific Fighters. ;)

[mookiemookie]

Meh, I never bought into the whole "its the moral implications" argument. This game lets me....wait no, rewards me for... putting a couple torpedoes into the side of a troop ship (presumably filled with around 2000 soldiers) and watching as it explodes and breaks in half and sinks....but I can't see a lifeboat because of morality reasons? :roll:

[Melonfish]

well remember that a troop ship is filled with soldiers. wheras a merchant ship is just merchant seamen, civilians basically.
the real morel dilema comes from the passenger liners and where added the hospital/rescue ships.

during the war the order was (sort of) given to give these ships no quarter as the reduction in active seamen meant a reduction in the amount of available crews for new ships.
although this was the orders from the Fuhrur it didn't exactly sit well with Uncle Karl, he did still have to issue it, however the wording was rather ambiguous i believe.
pete

[Phoenix3000]

Hi all,

Lifeboats are something I would like to see too. I recenty found this link - anyone know of it? If you scroll down there is a lifeboat carrying two crew modelled as a surface vessel for SH3...unfortunately the download link isn't there, but is for all the other vessels.....odd.....

http://web.telia.com/~u18230645/


Px3000

[AVGWarhawk]

Hi all,

Lifeboats are something I would like to see too. I recenty found this link - anyone know of it? If you scroll down there is a lifeboat carrying two crew modelled as a surface vessel for SH3...unfortunately the download link isn't there, but is for all the other vessels.....odd.....

http://web.telia.com/~u18230645/


Px3000

I seen that but it was abandoned for some reason a while back.

[AVGWarhawk]

Meh, I never bought into the whole "its the moral implications" argument. This game lets me....wait no, rewards me for... putting a couple torpedoes into the side of a troop ship (presumably filled with around 2000 soldiers) and watching as it explodes and breaks in half and sinks....but I can't see a lifeboat because of morality reasons? :roll:


Morality, it is what makes us human:D. It was not the fact of the lifeboat but I believe original developers omitted humans swimming about and being shot at. I believe the sailor flying off the deck is enough for me. I don't really need to see bodies floating in the water. It is not really necessary in my view. But hey, thats just me;)

[Phoenix3000]

If there was a lifeboat mod, where you had lifeboat vessels etc. it would be good to see them appear, after a ship is hit. So when you have a merchant listing to port, to suddenly see around 8-10 lifeboats bobbing about would make it look great.

And to get around the morality issue, make them invincible, ie. bullets, your boat etc. would just pass straight through them causing no damage - they are just for eye candy. Also, don't have crew in the water, just lifeboats - again, this resolves the morality issue.

If it can be done I would certainly use them.

Px3000

[Hartmann]

could be cool but by the other way very sad abandon a few poor sailors in the middle of the cold waters of atlantic in a little boat or life raft.

remember das boat, when they finish the burning tanker ship and survivors jump to the water... :roll:

[Safe-Keeper]

One way to do it is to replace those stupid crates with dead bodies.

But either way, I perfectly well understand the morality argument. I wouldn't mind either way, life-boats or not. X-Wing Alliance had ejected pilots and escape pods lying around in space after a battle, and if you wanted to, you could blast every single helpless TIE Fighter pilot and escape pod-load of starship crews after the fight was over, or electrocute them with your ion cannons. I never found it the least bit offensive.

However, I'm also fine with Silent Hunter III's approach. Not every war game needs to show the grim reality of war in such a way. And, I guess, there's the fact that in X-Wing Alliance, the survivors get rescued after the mission. In Silent Hunter III, you know that many of them die. In addition, X-Wing Alliance is far less immersive than Silent Hunter III.

Meh, I never bought into the whole "its the moral implications" argument. This game lets me....wait no, rewards me for... putting a couple torpedoes into the side of a troop ship (presumably filled with around 2000 soldiers) and watching as it explodes and breaks in half and sinks....but I can't see a lifeboat because of morality reasons? :roll:Nonsense. Just that it's about war doesn't have to mean it has to go full-out and display people drowning, not to mention let the player get kicks out of shooting at them or running over them.

In conclusion: If there's going to be survivors in the water and/or life-boats, don't let the player kill them. Leave them environmental like the dolphins and barricade ships, ie. invulnerable.

[_Seth_]

Im not trying to step on anybodys toes, but does Ubisoft policy prevent them from designing such things as dead sailors etc.(considering all the late "press riot" about violence in games.)?

[bigboywooly]

The lifeboat mod has been discussed at length before

IIRC the conclusions we came to that the mod would work best if added to a convoy that had AI uboats attached and adding the lifeboat at the front of the convoy
By the time the convoy was rendered - approx 30km from you - and you arriving it was hoped that the AI uboats would have sunk/damaged a couple of ships
The convoy would all have to avoid the non moving lifeboat at the front which would put the convoy in disarray and the lifeboat somewhere in the middle by the time you could view it

Well that was the theory anyway

Not sure if Serg ever tested the idea any further as he is always busy with other projects - The air attacks mod and the latest freighter release to name a couple

The lifeboat can be made invincible so cant be shot at

[mookiemookie]

In conclusion: If there's going to be survivors in the water and/or life-boats, don't let the player kill them. Leave them environmental like the dolphins and barricade ships, ie. invulnerable.
Yes! I completely agree with that. Everything I've ever read about U-boat captains says that they were honorable and compassionate warriors...."brotherhood of sailors" and all that. There's no reason to let the player be any less than that by allowing them to commit hostile acts on the lifeboats/sailors/etc.

I do understand your stance on lifeboats, but I just found the lack of them to be at odds with the fact that you're torpedoing ships and destroying them. I guess it boils down to "if you're going to go so far as to have the player's primary mission be to destroy enemy shipping, why not go all the way." It's a simulator, and so go ahead and simulate that aspect! But that's just my opnion, I could be wrong. ;)

In summary, I don't think it really detracts from the game by them not being there. It was just the justification given by the developers that I didn't quite agree with.

remember das boat, when they finish the burning tanker ship and survivors jump to the water... :roll:

Yes, that was very sad and a very poingniant part of the movie. I never did understand why Der Alte didn't finish off that wreck with the deck gun instead of wasting another torpedo on it. If he did, he most likely would have seen the sailors still on the ship once he opened fire. (Though he wasn't going to pick them up anyways...the extended version has him saying "we barely have enough room for the 46 men on board as it is!" or something similar)

[AVGWarhawk]

Im not trying to step on anybodys toes, but does Ubisoft policy prevent them from designing such things as dead sailors etc.(considering all the late "press riot" about violence in games.)?


I would suspect that is the case and had some bearing on the addition of shark bait for this game. But the game really is about U-boats, U-boat tactics and sinking ships. I don't believe this mod would add to the game in a significant way. IMHO that is!