Standing Operational Orders ???

[Lanzfeld]

I remember back in the days of AOD I had a website that gave the operational orders for u-boats on a day to day basis. I printed out the orders for 1939 but the website I cannot find anymore. Does anyone know if it is archived anywhere or perhaps have a link?

Thanks.

[robj250]

Sorry to jump in on your thread Lansfeld. But I have an operation order I don't know what to do. It is Dec 10 1939 on my 4th patrol and my patrol grid is AM25. I got the following orders.

Primary Patrol area: Western Approach
Sneak into La Rochelle and attack the enemy ships there. Try to leave La Rochelle undetected, and avoid unnessary risks during this mission.

Am I supposed to follow this Mission?

Also, at Holy Loch I have warships, merchants and the Light Cruiser 'Bonaventure'

Now I don't know where Holy Loch is or La Rochelle are.
Rob

[mookiemookie]

La Rochelle is on the coast of France (it's the port that is bombed in Das Boot) and Holy Loch is on the Firth of Clyde in Scotland.

Sounds like you're using SH3Gen. Those orders are for fun. There's no in-game reward or penalty if you accomplish them or don't. They're there to give you something else to do besides patrol a grid.

[bigboywooly]

It is Dec 10 1939 on my 4th patrol
Rob

How did you manage to be on your 4th patrol in only Dec 39 Rob ?

3x 28 days in port would take you to end of Nov without the patrol times

[robj250]

It is Dec 10 1939 on my 4th patrol
Rob

How did you manage to be on your 4th patrol in only Dec 39 Rob ?

3x 28 days in port would take you to end of Nov without the patrol times

Oops, my goof, looking at the wrong sheet, I got Dec by looking at the news sheet for the date :damn: . It is Jan 10, 1940.

But that's not the point of the post.

[robj250]

La Rochelle is on the coast of France (it's the port that is bombed in Das Boot) and Holy Loch is on the Firth of Clyde in Scotland.

Sounds like you're using SH3Gen. Those orders are for fun. There's no in-game reward or penalty if you accomplish them or don't. They're there to give you something else to do besides patrol a grid.

Thank you very much mooniemookie. Are these ports easy to get into in 1940?

[bigboywooly]

Never tried La Rochelle when its in allied hands
Holy Loch is not impossible - I reckon its easier than Scapa

[robj250]

Never tried La Rochelle when its in allied hands
Holy Loch is not impossible - I reckon its easier than Scapa

Thanks for the information bigboywooly. Now I think this thread should go back to the person who initiated it. I have the answers to my question.
Rob

[mookiemookie]

I've infiltrated Holy Loch when SH3Gen gave me the same orders. As bigboy said, it's not impossible. A couple minefields, a subnet, and gun emplacements on the hill overlooking the harbor.

I just found it wasn't worth the time and effort. If I remember correctly, it was something like a medium tanker, a docked DD and a couple assorted C2 cargos. Don't remember what year it was exactly. Probably '41. Sunk 'em all, made it out without a scratch. Kind of a "meh, so what" ordeal.

And yes, I will cease my thread hijacking. Apologies for that.

[TarJak]

I remember back in the days of AOD I had a website that gave the operational orders for u-boats on a day to day basis. I printed out the orders for 1939 but the website I cannot find anymore. Does anyone know if it is archived anywhere or perhaps have a link?

Thanks.

Lanzfeld,

Now that your thread has been handed back to you is this the site you were looking for? http://www.uboatarchive.net/

[Captain_AJ]

I was orderd to look for the battleship Ramsies . In the greenland sea , A big convoy :rock: showed up and what do you think Iam going for now ?

[GlobalExplorer]

I remember back in the days of AOD I had a website that gave the operational orders for u-boats on a day to day basis. I printed out the orders for 1939 but the website I cannot find anymore. Does anyone know if it is archived anywhere or perhaps have a link?

Thanks.

You are probably talking about the U-Boaters Guide by Hans Abaddon. These pages have disappeared from the web long ago. I own a copy on my hard drive, however.

By coincidence, exactly these orders are included in Sh3Gen, the program that was brought into this discussion (though I don't see the connection). We have extended the original version with a lot of new orders, and even made a german translation. I have been in contact with Hans Abaddon, and he has long ago left the subsim community, actually he doesn't even play computer games anymore. He was kind enough to allow me to use his material, however.

[GlobalExplorer]

La Rochelle is on the coast of France (it's the port that is bombed in Das Boot) and Holy Loch is on the Firth of Clyde in Scotland.

Sounds like you're using SH3Gen. Those orders are for fun. There's no in-game reward or penalty if you accomplish them or don't. They're there to give you something else to do besides patrol a grid.

With the exception of the monthly standing orders, all orders in Sh3Gen are based on real data from the campaign files, so I find your statement a bit misleading. I say this, because it required some effort to write a program that can analyze the campaign data. Writing something that generates orders "for fun" would have been possible in one or two nights.

[Lanzfeld]

Thanks for the info Globel. Any chance you could send them to me?

[GlobalExplorer]

Thanks for the info Globel. Any chance you could send them to me?

Please send an email adress to mail@christian-wendt.org and I will send to you what I find.

[robj250]

With the exception of the monthly standing orders, all orders in Sh3Gen are based on real data from the campaign files, so I find your statement a bit misleading. I say this, because it required some effort to write a program that can analyze the campaign data. Writing something that generates orders "for fun" would have been possible in one or two nights.

I don't know what you find misleading in my Intelligence Report.
- - - Mission - - -
Primary Patrol Area: Western Approaches

Sneak into La Rochelle and attack the enemy ships there. Try to leave La Rochelle undetected, and avoid unnecessary risks during this mission.

Then came the Usual standing operational orders.
Rob

[mookiemookie]

With the exception of the monthly standing orders, all orders in Sh3Gen are based on real data from the campaign files, so I find your statement a bit misleading. I say this, because it required some effort to write a program that can analyze the campaign data. Writing something that generates orders "for fun" would have been possible in one or two nights.

Thank you for the correction. I was indeed under the impression that they were "for fun." I didn't know they were based on historic operations. Blame it on me not reading the readme. Nice work!:up:

[Lanzfeld]

:arrgh!: Thanks Global!

I got your e-mail and they are, indeed, what I was looking for!:up: :rock: :rock:

They are great to read.

Thanks again.:arrgh!:

[robj250]

I just finished my patrol of AM25 (assigned patrol grid) and was heading for La Rochelle as ordered in my Intelligence Report as a Primary objective. Oh, It is Jan 1940 and I receive a message from OKM to me: The Port of Danzig is available for operations.

Now what am I supposed to do and where is this port, couldn't find it and what do they mean by operations.

[melnibonian]

I just finished my patrol of AM25 (assigned patrol grid) and was heading for La Rochelle as ordered in my Intelligence Report as a Primary objective. Oh, It is Jan 1940 and I receive a message from OKM to me: The Port of Danzig is available for operations.

Now what am I supposed to do and where is this port, couldn't find it and what do they mean by operations.
When they say the port is ready for operations they mean you can use it any time you like. It doesn't mean you have to go there. All of the messages you get from BdU while at sea are just there for effect. They have no impact in your game or in your renown/promotions etc. The only thing you get renown for is to reach and patrol for 24 hours the assign grid.

EDIT: Danzig is in the coast of Poland (where the WWII started) in the Baltic Sea in case you want to pay a visit. I don't think you can use it as a home base though. You can refuel and rearm there but you cannot upgrade your boat.

[bigboywooly]

Basically it means the port of Danzig is now open for use by German units

Danzig is on the Baltic coastline and was originally a German ( Prussian ) port before the treaty of Versailles made it a free port

After WW2 it became the Polish port of Gdansk

[robj250]

On my way to La Rochelle, January 13, 1940 I have come across an AMerican merchant. But I believe the Fuhrer's order were not to sink any American vessels, 'cause we're not at war with them. Is that correct, I don't want to lose renown.
Rob

[robj250]

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3294/may2217sk5.jpg

Rob

[bigboywooly]

No
America is nuetral still
Look at your flag sheet and will give you the date the US enter the war
IIRC its the 11th Dec 41

[robj250]

No
America is nuetral still
Look at your flag sheet and will give you the date the US enter the war
IIRC its the 11th Dec 41
Well, I left it and shortly after than I received an RA of large enemy convoy in BF13 going W 9 kts. So I plot the intercept and I waited, dove several times to listen, nothing. I don't know why I go after these convoys, 'cause I can never find them. Complete waste of time.

EDIT: I'm getting very, very discouraged with TGW1.1a. This is my fourth patrol and I haven't sunk a damned think except a little trawler. I keep trying but I'm :damn: :damn: :damn:

[bigboywooly]

Well I dont normally like to discourage ppl from using GW but if you are having that much trouble Rob then go back to stock
Playing time is precious so should be spent as enjoyable as possible

Not sure how you never manage to intercept a convoy or meet no traffic

[robj250]

Well I dont normally like to discourage ppl from using GW but if you are having that much trouble Rob then go back to stock
Playing time is precious so should be spent as enjoyable as possible

Not sure how you never manage to intercept a convoy or meet no traffic

Well, let's not give up too soon. I'd like to finish this patrol. Maybe start a 5th partol and see how that goes. I would like to at least get into "the Happy Days" and maybe something magical will occur:)

Maybe I'm plotting wrong. The convoy was doing 9 kts. What I do is take the ruler and extend the path of the convoy starting at the tail and matching up the centre and extend that line out as least 270 km. Then make three interception lines usling the ruler and intersect the convoy route in three places and then try to determine which is the best one to take, giving me lots of time to get situated then I dive several times and listen on the hydro phone. If nothing after a couple of dives, I move toward the on-coming convoy (it was a clear day) and my watchman spotted nothing. The sonar heard nothing while I was travelling slow on the surface.

I can't follow the instructions that were developed by someone with the start letter of "D" it's too complicated for me. I have no idea HOW he picks the tntercept point.
Rob

[bigboywooly]

Well your sonar wont hear anything on the surface anyway

I do regular soundchecks and only tonight found 3 single merchants on my way to AM24 - Oct 39

As to plotting well I am not the greatest at that - I usually work out where they are going then head there
Diving to take regular soundchecks as I get close to where I think the intercept will be

Sometimes I am too slow and I am behind it
Sometimes I am in front

[robj250]

Well your sonar wont hear anything on the surface anyway

I do regular soundchecks and only tonight found 3 single merchants on my way to AM24 - Oct 39

As to plotting well I am not the greatest at that - I usually work out where they are going then head there
Diving to take regular soundchecks as I get close to where I think the intercept will be

Sometimes I am too slow and I am behind it
Sometimes I am in front

But I was 2-1/2 grids away and I went flank speed to the intercept that I knew I would get there ahead of them. They had to come about 1-1/2 grids on a course of W, so mathematically I should have got there before them. They had to travel 300 km at 9 kts and I had to travel 250 km at 17 kts. After waiting for over an hour, I started to travel towards them.

[bigboywooly]

Well at a rough guess your intercept point should have been around 150km from the convoy start position
That way its less time for the convoy to alter course


By you travelling at 17kts at a point 250km from you which is 300km from the convoy start point which is travelling at 9kts means that when you get to the intercept point the convoy has travelled only halfway - roughly 150km

In that 300km distance it could go anywhere so the shorter the intercept point that you can make the better

Plus if the screen shows a convoy as heading west it may be running at 88 degrees or 93 degrees so the further the intercept point the more margin for error

[robj250]

Well at a rough guess your intercept point should have been around 150km from the convoy start position
That way its less time for the convoy to alter course


By you travelling at 17kts at a point 250km from you which is 300km from the convoy start point which is travelling at 9kts means that when you get to the intercept point the convoy has travelled only halfway - roughly 150km

In that 300km distance it could go anywhere so the shorter the intercept point that you can make the better

Plus if the screen shows a convoy as heading west it may be running at 88 degrees or 93 degrees so the further the intercept point the more margin for error

Okay, I'll give it another try.

[bigboywooly]

I always try to intercept as close as I can in case of course changes or the heading not being exact

Once you have contact you can shadow at a distance for the right time or then outflank to get a good firing position

Contact with the convoy is your first priority

Then you can plan your attack

Good hunting

[robj250]

I always try to intercept as close as I can in case of course changes or the heading not being exact

Once you have contact you can shadow at a distance for the right time or then outflank to get a good firing position

Contact with the convoy is your first priority

Then you can plan your attack

Good hunting

Well, I sure don't know how everyone finds their convoys. I've tried several times now and every planned an exact intercept of 2 convoys. No luck. I going to quit going after convoys, because they are nothing except GHOSTS. I've even waited 10 hours past the time they were expected.
Rob

[melnibonian]

Well, I sure don't know how everyone finds their convoys. I've tried several times now and every planned an exact intercept of 2 convoys. No luck. I going to quit going after convoys, because they are nothing except GHOSTS. I've even waited 10 hours past the time they were expected.
Rob
I think the problem you're having is that the convoy changes direction. It is quite common and you can spend a fair amount of time (both real and game time) in trying to intercept only to face the open ocean. Do you use the technique mentioned in 'The Hunt'? It's a very good and exact way of plotting intercept courses. My suggestion would be to go to periscope depth once you're in position and use the hydrophones to see if the convoy is close by. If not it changed direction and you've lost it. Don't worry about it we all lost more than we found. If you need more info let me know

[robj250]

I think the problem you're having is that the convoy changes direction. It is quite common and you can spend a fair amount of time (both real and game time) in trying to intercept only to face the open ocean.

That's for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I aint gonna waste my three days any more trying to find them. I've tried three different locations to try to find them. Them ships are GHOSTS for me.



Do you use the technique mentioned in 'The Hunt'? It's a very good and exact way of plotting intercept courses.

I had already mentioned that it was too complicated for me to understand. I've tried it and it don't work anyhow!


My suggestion would be to go to periscope depth once you're in position and use the hydrophones to see if the convoy is close by. If not it changed direction and you've lost it. Don't worry about it we all lost more than we found. If you need more info let me know

I've tried that several times. Heck I spent a whole day underwater listening for them at all stop and using the "H".

Aint gonna waste my time no more. If everyone else can find them, then great for them.

Keep on a truckin!!!
Rob

[Corsair]

I don't waste too much time either if they are too far away when I get the info, due to possible changes in speed/direction. Except when it is obvious where they are going (like Gibraltar straight, North or South entry of the Irish sea, etc...) I then usually head for the bottleneck.
Sometimes you're just lucky, yesterday I found one in hard weather (15m/s winds and light fog) by a routine hydrophone check that had crossed my route unseen. One hour later I had 2 large tankers down...

[melnibonian]

Rob hi

I can understand your frustration with convoys. My rate of success in getting them is about 30-40% of the time. They do change direction frequently and that's making things difficult (as it was in reality). Since you're not using the hunt technique I would suggest the following.

Use the ruler to plot the approximate convoy (or target it's the same thing) direction. Now that you have a line on the map with their course draw a line (using the ruler) connecting your sub with a position on the course of the target. Where the two lines intersect depends on the your relative position to the target. Usually I tend to arrange it in such way so that I have to travel the same (more or less) distance as the target to the interception point. I do this in order to make sure that the target will not pass me by. Now depending on the target's speed you arrange yours but I usually go ahead flak and reach the interception point early. Then I just wait. In this don't forget that since the ploting of the course is not accurate the target might be a few Km further away from where you're expecting it, so you might need to make further adjustments. In any case I'll try to make a very quick tutorial and PM it to you. It will probably be later on today or tomorrow though as I'm at work now and things over here are a bit busy.

In the mean time good luck and good shooting:up:

[robj250]

Rob hi

I can understand your frustration with convoys. My rate of success in getting them is about 30-40% of the time. They do change direction frequently and that's making things difficult (as it was in reality). Since you're not using the hunt technique I would suggest the following.

Use the ruler to plot the approximate convoy (or target it's the same thing) direction. Now that you have a line on the map with their course draw a line (using the ruler) connecting your sub with a position on the course of the target. Where the two lines intersect depends on the your relative position to the target. Usually I tend to arrange it in such way so that I have to travel the same (more or less) distance as the target to the interception point. I do this in order to make sure that the target will not pass me by. Now depending on the target's speed you arrange yours but I usually go ahead flak and reach the interception point early. Then I just wait. In this don't forget that since the ploting of the course is not accurate the target might be a few Km further away from where you're expecting it, so you might need to make further adjustments. In any case I'll try to make a very quick tutorial and PM it to you. It will probably be later on today or tomorrow though as I'm at work now and things over here are a bit busy.

In the mean time good luck and good shooting:up:

What you have described above is exactly what I do......

[melnibonian]

Rob hi

I can understand your frustration with convoys. My rate of success in getting them is about 30-40% of the time. They do change direction frequently and that's making things difficult (as it was in reality). Since you're not using the hunt technique I would suggest the following.

Use the ruler to plot the approximate convoy (or target it's the same thing) direction. Now that you have a line on the map with their course draw a line (using the ruler) connecting your sub with a position on the course of the target. Where the two lines intersect depends on the your relative position to the target. Usually I tend to arrange it in such way so that I have to travel the same (more or less) distance as the target to the interception point. I do this in order to make sure that the target will not pass me by. Now depending on the target's speed you arrange yours but I usually go ahead flak and reach the interception point early. Then I just wait. In this don't forget that since the ploting of the course is not accurate the target might be a few Km further away from where you're expecting it, so you might need to make further adjustments. In any case I'll try to make a very quick tutorial and PM it to you. It will probably be later on today or tomorrow though as I'm at work now and things over here are a bit busy.

In the mean time good luck and good shooting:up:

What you have described above is exactly what I do......
OK I guess then that you are just unlucky. Anyhow I'll make the tutorial for you just in case, but I expect to do it at some point during the week end. Sorry about that but I'm really busy at work

[robj250]

I guess this is the wrong place to be discussing the interception of a convoy, but since I have started , I might as well finish. When I receive an RA report of a convoy I stop the game (TC=0). I get the ruler and trace a live from the rear of the tail of the convoy and through it, and extend it out to approx. 200km. Next I use the ruler to determine the distance from my sub to the convoy. Now here is where the math comes in. 5 kt = 9 km/hr; 6 kt = 11 km/hr; 9 kt = 16 km/hr and 21 kt = 38 km/hr. So now I make marks along the convoy's path at various points. I attempt to find the shortest distance between me and the convoy so that I arrive maybe a half-hour it. I figure out the math in my travelling 10, 13, 16, and 17 kts. to the convoy line and take that route. Once I reach that line (map magnification of greater than 125 km) I situate my sub to a point facing the oncomming convoy and then dive to periscope depth, stop engines and listen using the hydrophone for about a half-hour. I surface, charge, and repeat the procedure. I even allow a few extra hours after the time the convoy should have reached the point where I was situated along their route. This should work, because in SH3, I was BANG ON ALL THE TIME.
Rob