Litvinenko dead

[XabbaRus]

Interesting that noone here has discussed it.

I have my own ideas, though I don't think there was an assasination order from Putin. I mean he defected 5 years ago, has been irritating but no threat to Putin.

I think this is a Thomas a Beckett situation some rogue officers trying to get brownie points.

[waste gate]

It seems like a very awkward means of eliminating a person. Lead poisoning is far less expensive and delivers the same message without the target giving death bed speaches.

Very odd situation if you believe the news reports.

[STEED]

The only thing I can make of it is this who ever was behind it, it's one nasty way to warn others. More information is needed too understand this incident.

[Dowly]

I heard that the assassin used a radio active material too as a poison... just wondering, how easy it is to get that stuff? Why go over all the trouble getting the stuff if you can kill him in more easier ways? :hmm:

[PeriscopeDepth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Polonium-210

From the above Wikipedia article: "Polonium is so exceedingly rare that only about 100 grams is believed to be produced each year."

Seems to me a nation state was certainly behind it.

PD

[XabbaRus]

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

Sorry if I sounded like I was nailing the Russian government down as the only suspect. I just meant that at the very least, the resources of a nation state were used. It certainly could have been your rogue agent theory. But we hardly know any of the facts. All we know is that a very rare radioactive substance was used to kill the poor guy. IMO, agents of the Russian government (acting on orders or not) were involved.

PD

[TteFAboB]

He was holding on some important secret information as blackmail ($$$) and the [insert culprit here] got tired of playing the game. Of course, he knew this could happen so he made plans to get that information published at the moment of his death. Unfortunately, whoever nailed him only did so because he knew of this and manage to stop it from happening, leaving us without an answer for decades to come, if not forever, unless he's arrested and confess.

[Bort]

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorization. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

Who knows? It may well have been something personal, in that line of work you probably have enemies who can make your life truly miserable. But then again, this sounds like the nasty sort of thing Putin would do, maybe it was made so blatantly obvious so that future in the future those considering becoming dissident spies will think twice...:huh:

[XabbaRus]

None taken Periscope. The sort of thing Putin would do Bort? I don't even think he is that callous. I don't think he gives two ****s about the likes of Litvinenko really. It was more likely he had dirt on someone else.

Putin's cold but not that cold.

[P_Funk]

Well if you'd care to recall Trotsky his assassination might also make you wonder why. Trostky was cast out of Soviet Russia and was a non existant threat to Stalin yet he had him killed anyway.

Putin is a very odd leader. Being that he was KGB I wouldn't think it odd that he'd do it. And I also ask even though there are certainly ex-spooks that would want to do this how could they access such a rare and limited compund without alerting or having the support of a nation? Certainly spooks not associated directly with any nation wouldn't really use such rare materials to assassinate someone would they given the number of more cost effective ones, even ones that would leave a marker?

And I do believe Putin is this cold. Putin is ex KGB. Ex high ranking KGB. To be one of them you have to be pretty much a sociopath.

[mr chris]

I think the is more to this than meets the eye:hmm: Though we will never know more than the powers that be wish us to know:roll:

[P_Funk]

I think the is more to this than meets the eye:hmm: Though we will never know more than the powers that be wish us to know:roll:
Thers always more than meets the eye. Do you think that ther'd be TV shows like Spooks or Bond movies if there wasn't?:yep:

[XabbaRus]

And you think only KGB spooks are just like this.

You can't compare the Trotsky asassination with this one.

Having popped over to the BBC Have YourSay and there are a lot of people spouting off not having a clue about Russia apart from the little bits here and there.

As I said it is a suspicious way of killing someone but to immediately think it must be Putin and the Kremlin when there is no proof or even indications apart from they way it was done is crazy. The BBC is almost saying the Kremlin did it.

[P_Funk]

Im not saying that the KGB is somehow unique or that this is exactly the same the Trotsky assasination. What i meant by mentioning that is that leaders often view a threat where there is none or see eliminating it as a preventative measure.

I dont claim to be an exert on Russia, past or present. Im also not saying the BBC isn't manufacturing this. I'm just exploring ideas.

[sonar732]

I am shocked that Kapitan hasn't inputed something here. :o:o:rotfl::rotfl:

[Tchocky]

As I said it is a suspicious way of killing someone but to immediately think it must be Putin and the Kremlin when there is no proof or even indications apart from they way it was done is crazy. The BBC is almost saying the Kremlin did it.
This seems fairly even-handed to me ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6180432.stm ) , have you any examples to back up your statement?

[Fish]

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

Well, thats at least what Putin wants us to think. :hmm:

[SeaQueen]

What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.

What did they have to gain by sending the KGB to try to kill Nureyev? He was a dancer for heaven's sake! He wasn't interested in becoming the General Secretary of the Communist Party. For a while, watching him dodge whatever they threw at him on stage was a part of the show. It's about making an example of publically visible dissidents and ultimately stiffling dissent within Russia itself.

[Wim Libaers]

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.
Sorry if I sounded like I was nailing the Russian government down as the only suspect. I just meant that at the very least, the resources of a nation state were used. It certainly could have been your rogue agent theory. But we hardly know any of the facts. All we know is that a very rare radioactive substance was used to kill the poor guy. IMO, agents of the Russian government (acting on orders or not) were involved.

PD

Very rare, but you don't need much of it either...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium-210

Due to the risk of Polonium spreading itself into the air, however, it seems to be a somewhat messy method to poison somebody.

[SUBMAN1]

Or someone trained and with access to it.

There are plenty of spooks and ex-spooks who could carry it out without getting authorisation. What has Putin got to gain with his death? Nothing. He was a mosquito biting an elephant.
Sorry if I sounded like I was nailing the Russian government down as the only suspect...

PD

They are the only suspect!

[SUBMAN1]

None taken Periscope. The sort of thing Putin would do Bort? I don't even think he is that callous. I don't think he gives two ****s about the likes of Litvinenko really. It was more likely he had dirt on someone else.

Putin's cold but not that cold.

He does care. Everyone against Putin these days is dying - assasination style.

[XabbaRus]

Can't believe you guys. It is all supposition, rumour and blown out of proportion.

There is no prrof. I ttook the doctors three weeks to try and figure out what was killing him and then whoops, within 12 hours of his death it turns out to be polonium. Why did it take 3 weeks to figure this one out.

The whole way he was killed has been so convoluted even for a spec ops assasination.

They guy had been in the UK for 5 years. Previous to that he'd written his book. Why now? Hardly anyone in the UK knew who this guy was until a week ago, it wasn't like his stuff was doing the rounds in the general public in the news every few days.

I think this has got more to do with the Russian mafia than the Kremlin. I'd even go so far as saying that maybe it was done because whoever did it new the fingers would immediately jump to point at Putin. Now who in the UK has an axe to grind against Putin, Berezovsky, I woldn't put it past that sum'bitch to do something like that.

[MadMike]

Litvinenko may not have had dirt on Putin, but he obviously P.O.'d someone in the FSB (KGB)- then again, how many Russian journalists have been assassinated since Putin took power?
Due to it's toxicity and relatively short half life, I'm not surprised of it's use by an FSB operative.
I'll guarantee that AWE, MI-5, etc., will find out the source. :up:

Yours, Mike

[SeaQueen]

I'll guarantee that AWE, MI-5, etc., will find out the source. :up:


And someone at the CIA will say, "Do any of you guys remember when we had people who could find this kind of thing out?"

[Yahoshua]

Or of when the CIA knew about an incident before CNN did?

Anyway, it does raise the question as to who the assasin is trying to intimidate into silence or flush out of their hole. It'd be far less messy and avoid any PR problems by making the death appear to be of natural causes, not many would suspect the death of an ex-spy via natural causes to be an assasination by a foreign agent (unless somebody in the intelligence division had a few hackles raise on the back of their necks).

[SUBMAN1]

Can't believe you guys. It is all supposition, rumour and blown out of proportion.

There is no prrof. I ttook the doctors three weeks to try and figure out what was killing him and then whoops, within 12 hours of his death it turns out to be polonium. Why did it take 3 weeks to figure this one out.

The whole way he was killed has been so convoluted even for a spec ops assasination.

They guy had been in the UK for 5 years. Previous to that he'd written his book. Why now? Hardly anyone in the UK knew who this guy was until a week ago, it wasn't like his stuff was doing the rounds in the general public in the news every few days.

I think this has got more to do with the Russian mafia than the Kremlin. I'd even go so far as saying that maybe it was done because whoever did it new the fingers would immediately jump to point at Putin. Now who in the UK has an axe to grind against Putin, Berezovsky, I woldn't put it past that sum'bitch to do something like that.
No - it is not blown out of proportion by any means. You have a man who is ordered to kill opposition members of Putins party leave the KGB for that very reason and seek assylum in the UK. You have an ex-KGB agent who is investigating the assasination of a female journalist who was investigating the Putin administration herself. You now have a dead ex-KGB agent poisoned and dead from something that could 'only' come from a nuke reactor since it is not found in nature in significant quantities, and is still 'rare' in a nuke reactor. It is not something your mob person can buy you might say.

The high profile of the case and the poison used was not meant to be secret, but it was meant for other opposition people to get a message - this will happen to you if you speak negatively about Putin. Plain and simple.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the fallout from this little manuver is going way out further than the Putin administration had figured however. This is the part that you are saying is blown out of proportion. It is the same part the Putin administration didn't bank on.

Such is the way of life - unpredictable. Sorry for not being politically correct - I gave up on PC long ago, and maybe this is what Putin was banking on - the West to be 'PC' about it and for it all to go away.

-S

[Wim Libaers]

They guy had been in the UK for 5 years. Previous to that he'd written his book. Why now? Hardly anyone in the UK knew who this guy was until a week ago, it wasn't like his stuff was doing the rounds in the general public in the news every few days.


Well, his publisher certainly has a motive, but those businesses usually don't own nuclear reactors or neutron sources :hmm:

[Type941]

armchair detectives let loose. Of course it was Putin. :roll:

I have to say, I only found out about the man when he fell ill. I felt quite bad for him, but as a human being, being sick and then dying. that's the human side of it.

There is the other side, which is his connection or alleged connection to Berezovski, the oligarch who run away from Russia, promised to incite a revolt, took up a new name, is searched by INterpol and is living in UK. That is the crux of the matter - UK is a heaven for all people who run away from Russia, notably Zakaev - the Chechen murderer, who is walking on London streets wearing suits and ties. UK is letting in everyone without ever giving them back to RUssia and I dont know if the now deceased mr. Litvinenko had reason to RUN or a reason to HIDE. We say dont' speak ill of deceased, or speak nothing at all. So I won't say anything, as I said, I only found out about him 1 week ago.

BUt troubling is the reaction or HYSTERIA OF THE WESTERN MEDIA. Financial times, writes 'dead probably because of poisoning by FSB' and the next sentence is 'of course, no proof is available'. So what kind of phucking journalism is this? But people read it, and believe it.

You guys (you who read BBC, CNN, SKY) will believe in this regardless, because the story is so good, it's so perfect and even rides on the new bond film wave, i mean it's excellent for you to follow. It is degrading Russia once's again, at a time when a lot is at stake with an energy charter, with Meat obcessed Poland, ultra Nationalist Riga hosting NATO summit, and all is aimed at putting pressure on Russia to open up it's resources to foreing companies. I mean EU wants only ONE THING from Russia - its resources, and as free as possible. Trouble is - Russians are not indians - you can't cut them out like it was done in NA. So you must push russia somehow to give in to your demands. It will not work (I really hope) and unfortunately it makes things so much worse for EU.


Anyone with a brain and who doesn't have the sheep mentality, can analyse the situation and judge for themselves. Like why would Russia kill the man who is out of the country for 5 years, a UK citizen and do it at a time when there are all sorts of negotiations underway. Why is it that a private citizen of UK, is 'killed because he was investigating murder of his friend Politkovskaya'. Why was he investigating?? Has anyone just accepted that as normal? I mean to me that sounded very strange, unless he is in police or a PI. Which I don't think he was. So this whole thing is very strange. there are all these former KGB agents meeting, some Italian SS guys meeting, I mean comon, this is becoming rediculous and who ever is in charge of homeland security in UK, i gotta say, is doing a very shi!!y job in protecting its own citizens.

But opinion is already made up. The world belives in what they want to believe, because they feel insecure of their own future, because they don't want to be dependent on Russian oil and gas and try to descredit Russia and beat it down, make it give in to their demands. Oh, it's a very big game going on, and I think this is only the beginning. I have a feeling there is much more of these things prepared for Russia to deal with. It's only the beginning. But watch CNN, you'll learn first about it there.

On a personal note: if there is a professional I would be ashamed of - that's a journalist.

OH and one more thing: if you wonder who is this Berezovski oligarch is, he's the man who financed the Chechen terrorists in the war, who was tied to Yeltsin, and generally a despikable human being and deserves what I will not say. And it is disgusting UK is harbouring this terrorist.

[XabbaRus]

Type 941 has summed up exactly what I was going to write in reply to SUBMAN1.

[Fish]

Leaves us with the question of the polonium? :cool:
Rusian maffia?


Others were more frightening, if true: Mr. Amin is accused of making inquiries about buying a radioactive “dirty bomb” from the Russian mafia in Belgium.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/world/europe/26crevice.html?pagewanted=1&th&emc=th

[bookworm_020]

The Use of Polonium to kill Litvinenko is an unsual choice, as ther are other poisons around that would have done the job more effectivley. Putin is been touted as the majour culprit, due to the dislike of him by Litvinenko and others.
The Russians have shown great use of posions to get rid of people who have crossed them in the past. Not all of the uses of posion have been cleared by Moscow, Georgi Markov was killed by the Bulgarian Secret Police, despite Moscow not wanting it to go ahead.
Let the investigation find out who did it, there maybe someone else who acted on the own will, who also had a wish to see him dead.

[Tchocky]

Can anyone point me towards examples of this HYSTERIA OF THE WESTERN MEDIA I'm hearing so much about? And possibly something from BBC/CNN-type sources. Obviously when a man says he has been poisoned by order of Vladimir Putin the gutter press will react in a ridiculous fashion; they know it, we know it. But the mainstream media are usually different.


The BBC is almost saying the Kremlin did it.
Financial times, writes 'dead probably because of poisoning by FSB' and the next sentence is 'of course, no proof is available'.
this kind of stuff....

[Type941]

Sure Tchcoky.

Whoever is responsible, his death underlines that Russian-style assassinations have been imported into Britain along with London’s sizeable Russian exile community.

a week ago, few westerners or Russians had heard of Alexander Litvinenko. Yet his gaunt and sallow face, splashed across newspapers this week, threatens to become a defining image of Vladimir Putin's Russia. His deathbed charge that the Russian president was responsible for his demise may dog Mr Putin for the rest of his presidency and beyond.Strangely, however, Mr Litvinenko was neither the Kremlin's most damaging critic nor Russia's most high-profile defector. And despite the alarming nature of the former KGB officer's death - by poisoning with radioactive polonium-210 - intelligence experts say there is no concrete evidence Russian agents were involved, let alone Kremlin-sanctioned.



Russian secret services may finally have decided to dispense justice to someone they saw as a traitor, with or without higher authority. Former colleagues, no longer in the services, could have decided to do the same.
But there are other scenarios. Mr Litvinenko's support for Chechen rebel causes and friendship with Akhmed Zakayev, the exile who sits in Chechnya's rebel "government", made him an enemy of the separatist republic's current pro-Moscow leadership. Forces connected to Ramzan Kadyrov, the Chechen prime minister, were also seen as possible suspects in Ms Politkovskaya's shooting.


Mr Litvinenko could also have fallen foul of the tangled politics of London's expatriate Russian community. He became part of a loose alliance of exiled oligarchs - including the now London-based Mr Berezovsky, Chechens, Soviet-era and more recent defectors - united by loathing for Mr Putin's government. His poisoning certainly provided a propaganda boost - skilfully manipulated by Mr Berezovsky's associates and public relations advisers - for the campaign the one-time oligarch is waging for Mr Putin's political overthrow.



By Neil Buckley, Arkady Ostrovsky and Stephen Fidler
Published: November 25 2006 02:00 FT

Mr Putin expressed doubts as to the authenticity of Litvinenko's declaration. He said he was "unclear" why, if the statement had been written while Litvinenko was alive, it had not been reported at that time. "Mr Litvinenko is not Lazarus," he said.
FT again.


7 OCTOBER
Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, a critic of the Russian government and in particular the war in Chechnya, is shot dead in Moscow. Mr Litvinenko begins to investigate amid claims she was killed because of her work.

1 NOVEMBER
Mr Litvinenko meets two Russian men at a London hotel - one a former KGB officer.
He also meets academic Mario Scaramella at a sushi bar where he is said to have received documents about the journalist's death.
Several hours after his meetings, Mr Litvinenko complains of feeling sick and is admitted to Barnet General Hospital, north London.
saturday, 25 November 2006, 23:34 GMT BBC


Look how this is put together. There are more examples, like the Guradian, Times, etc, but I have really little time to plought through 5 days old electronic newspapers. But the whole speculative tone, the implications, the presentation of the info (Politkovskaya death in the same timeline ) and so on, is very much sensationalist journalism. I mean I have no illusions about FT (i read it at work every day anyway) but the way it has been picked up on the news is rediculous.

Alas, BBC published this piece which is quite interesting and deals with opinions on the story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6183704.stm

[Type941]

Another FT Piece.

Berezovsky link draws Lord Bell into action

By Jimmy Burns
Published: November 25 2006 02:00 | Last updated: November 25 2006 02:00

The mystery surrounding the death of Alexander Litvinenko has stirred claims and counter-claims about who might be responsible, drawing in one of Britain's most successful and experienced public relations experts on behalf of some of the key players linked to the controversy.
Lord Bell has been representing Boris Berezovsky for four years, and fielding media inquiries on his behalf because of his friendship with Mr Litvinenko. The PR executive also confirmed yesterday that since the poisoning saga broke last week, his involvement had grown to offering advice to others - relatives of Mr Litvinenko and Alex Goldfarb, the former Russian spy's spokesman during his dying days in a London hospital.
ADVERTISEMENT

In addition to offering his Russian clients advice on how to handle the aggressive British media, Lord Bell has also helped in distributing the harrowing photograph showing Mr Litvinenko with no hair and physically wasted in his final hours.
Last night Lord Bell, who played a critical role in promoting Margaret Thatcher towards Downing Street in 1979, was co-operative in answering media inquiries as the Litvinenko case took a new twist with suggestions of a conspiracy involving the use of radioactive material responsible for his death.
He denied categorically the thinly veiled accusations emanating from the Kremlin against Mr Berezovsky, alleging a plot to embarrass President Vladimir Putin.
"It was inevitable that the Kremlin should try and blame Boris for this, they are always trying to blame him for something. But the idea that Boris did this to embarrass Putin is potty," Lord Bell said, insisting that anyone who knew his client knew he would be incapable of killing anyone.

[XabbaRus]

Ah poor Boris.

Very interesting stuff 941.

There are so many Russian expats in London, more than I think many UK citizens are aware of. Also a lot of unsavoury types.

[Tchocky]

Now the former Prime Minister has been poisoned.

After visiting my university, no less

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6159343.stm

[waste gate]

Ah poor Boris.

Very interesting stuff 941.

There are so many Russian expats in London, more than I think many UK citizens are aware of. Also a lot of unsavoury types.

Why is it that so many 'undesirables' (only word I could think of, not correct for all) in Britain? Since Churchill you've had the likes of Philby, escaped to the USSR, Rushdi, and what should have been a wake-up call to the danger Islam poses, cameras on every street corner, your right to defend yourself gone, STEED complaining about the PC madness. What is going on in GB?

[STEED]

STEED complaining about the PC madness. What is going on in GB?

PC madness is hand in glove with Islam. :nope:

Back to the story, this really is becoming a very strange situation indeed.

[waste gate]

STEED complaining about the PC madness. What is going on in GB?

PC madness is hand in glove with Islam. :nope:

Back to the story, this really is becoming a very strange situation indeed.

Is it fear of Islam or lack of national feelings which is driving the PC issue? The UK used to be a proud nation (the sun never sets over the British Empire), and when did empire become a bad thing.

[Tchocky]

STEED complaining about the PC madness. What is going on in GB?
PC madness is hand in glove with Islam. :nope:

Back to the story, this really is becoming a very strange situation indeed.
Is it fear of Islam or lack of national feelings which is driving the PC issue? The UK used to be a proud nation (the sun never sets over the British Empire), and when did empire become a bad thing.

Erm, what?

[sonar732]

Ah poor Boris.

Very interesting stuff 941.

There are so many Russian expats in London, more than I think many UK citizens are aware of. Also a lot of unsavoury types.

Where's Kapitan? :rotfl::rotfl::ping::ping:

[Happy Times]

UK 'behind Litvinenko poisoning'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6706921.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6710155.stm

[SUBMAN1]

This was discussed numerous times. Typically buried in threads though.

-S

[The Avon Lady]

UK 'behind Litvinenko poisoning'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6706921.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6710155.stm
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3460/boxlmz8.jpg

[Yahoshua]

That's a real game?

[The Avon Lady]

Bump.

U.K. Expels 4 Russian Diplomats in Litvinenko Dispute (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aBv0pTUItwK4).

[XabbaRus]

Unecessary diplomatic bull****.

[Happy Times]

Unecessary diplomatic bull****.

What would Russia do if MI6 killed Lugovoi in Russia, Litvinenko was a British citizen.

[XabbaRus]

For about a month. I'm not saying his killing was right but the way the press over here are emphasising he was a British citizen as though he was some great person.

why won't the British extradite Boris Berezovsky, becasue they say he won't get a fair trial. Please tell me how Lugovoi would get a fair trial in Britain when the press here has all but assumed he is guilty, how could the jury be impartial?

It makes me sick that the UK government hands out asylum to the likes of Berezovsky who is one of the biggest crooks in the post soviet period who was quite happy to stay while it suited him but as soon as he fell out of favour he runs away and has become a champion for democracy in Russia. You never here anything in the UK press about Berezovsky's past. For all I know Berezovsky could have had Litvinenko murdered to make Russia look bad. According to a treaty ~Russia signed in 1957 they don't HAVE to extradite Lugovoi. The Russians have offered to have Lugovoi tried in Russia taking into account all the UK prosecution's evidence, but no, the tria won't be fair, and in the UK it will due to the proud tradition of justice in this country cough cough, unless there is a multi-billion pound arms deal and investigations are halted on the grounds of national security.

[bookworm_020]

in the UK it will due to the proud tradition of justice in this country cough cough, unless there is a multi-billion pound arms deal and investigations are halted on the grounds of national security.

I believe the U.S. is now asking for all the information on the deal now.

Back to topic! Wait for the russians to throw out some british officals!

[Happy Times]

Security services ‘foil plot to kill Berezovsky at the London Hilton’

Boris Berezovsky fled Britain three weeks ago on the advice of Scotland Yard, amid reports that he was the target of an assassination attempt by a suspected Russian hitman.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2094719.ece


RAF scrambles to intercept Russian bombers

RAF fighter jets were scrambled to intercept two Russian strategic bombers heading for British airspace yesterday, as the spirit of the Cold War returned to the North Atlantic once again.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2093759.ece

[Happy Times]

Timeline: Litvinenko death case

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6179074.stm

[XabbaRus]

Security services ‘foil plot to kill Berezovsky at the London Hilton’

Boris Berezovsky fled Britain three weeks ago on the advice of Scotland Yard, amid reports that he was the target of an assassination attempt by a suspected Russian hitman.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2094719.ece


RAF scrambles to intercept Russian bombers

RAF fighter jets were scrambled to intercept two Russian strategic bombers heading for British airspace yesterday, as the spirit of the Cold War returned to the North Atlantic once again.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2093759.ece

And your point is? What has the interception of Russian aircraft heading for Britain to do with Litvinenko. It's not like it hasn't happened before.

As for Berezovsky I wouldn't trust him not to sell his grandmother down the river. He is a perfect example of the UK giving asylum to people who don't deserve it. If you believe he is a champion of democracy and a poor persecuted man then you are deluding yourself. But then again you have made it obvious of your dislike for Russia, so is it a question of your sympathetic to him because he has only bad things to say about the Russian government.

[Happy Times]

Security services ‘foil plot to kill Berezovsky at the London Hilton’

Boris Berezovsky fled Britain three weeks ago on the advice of Scotland Yard, amid reports that he was the target of an assassination attempt by a suspected Russian hitman.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2094719.ece


RAF scrambles to intercept Russian bombers

RAF fighter jets were scrambled to intercept two Russian strategic bombers heading for British airspace yesterday, as the spirit of the Cold War returned to the North Atlantic once again.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2093759.ece

And your point is? What has the interception of Russian aircraft heading for Britain to do with Litvinenko. It's not like it hasn't happened before.



I dont know, the stories were related?

Related Links



Kremlin plays it cool as Litvinenko row heats up (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2093758.ece)
RAF scrambles to intercept Russian bombers (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2093759.ece)
Britain braced for Moscow retaliation (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2087274.ece)

As for Berezovsky I wouldn't trust him not to sell his grandmother down the river. He is a perfect example of the UK giving asylum to people who don't deserve it. If you believe he is a champion of democracy and a poor persecuted man then you are deluding yourself. But then again you have made it obvious of your dislike for Russia, so is it a question of your sympathetic to him because he has only bad things to say about the Russian government

I dont think no such thing, he is the one that made Putin. Its just intresting to see these medieval court conspiracies play out. There are lots of things good in Russia and lots that arent, the goverment is one of those. So yes, i like it when he makes them angry and reveals their true intentions and fragile egos.

[w-subcommander]

I have two answers on you discussion guys:

(Hope you like it.)

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D3Gq...related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D3GqgvkGeE&mode=related&search)=

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkudf...related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkudfLwXrJg&mode=related&search)=

[The Avon Lady]

I have two answers on you discussion guys:

(Hope you like it.)

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D3Gq...related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D3GqgvkGeE&mode=related&search)=

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkudf...related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkudfLwXrJg&mode=related&search)=
I don't know about the first cartoon, but are you implying by the 2nd one that Berezovsky is being tailed?

:|\\

[w-subcommander]

Bezezovsky is just genious criminal businessman with PHD in math and sweet political intentions of a crokodile. If he got a refugee status in Great Britain that means Iranian President will be next person granted refugee status thanking HM Goverment. But Brits forgot (or I believe they dont want to know) that according Russian Constitution /Supreme Law / russian citizen cant be extradicted to any other state for trial. In these case British investigators have to go to Russia and do their job questioning everyone who was related by their opinion in the case and then write a petition to russian court.

As a guy who lived in Russia more than 30 years and having American life experience for 8 years I can say that West and Russia , both live in their two private fictional space-time Universes divided by prides, biases and mass media.

[Happy Times]

I have two answers on you discussion guys:

(Hope you like it.)

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D3Gq...related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D3GqgvkGeE&mode=related&search)=

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkudf...related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkudfLwXrJg&mode=related&search)=

I liked them, especially the Bolero, leaves it open to interpretation.:)

[Happy Times]

Bezezovsky is just genious criminal businessman with PHD in math and sweet political intentions of a crokodile. If he got a refugee status in Great Britain that means Iranian President will be next person granted refugee status thanking HM Goverment. But Brits forgot (or I believe they dont want to know) that according Russian Constitution /Supreme Law / russian citizen cant be extradicted to any other state for trial. In these case British investigators have to go to Russia and do their job questioning everyone who was related by their opinion in the case and then write a petition to russian court.

As a guy who lived in Russia more than 30 years and having American life experience for 8 years I can say that West and Russia , both live in their two private fictional space-time Universes divided by prides, biases and mass media.

Nice law to have, if Russian citizens want to go abroad to commit assassinations or other crimes.:dead: Killing Litvinenko was just so stupid. Im starting to think there is some major power strugle going on behind the scenes in Russia. Thats never good.
Is there some good source somewhere on the web who is who inside the Kreml?

[The Avon Lady]

Back to topic! Wait for the russians to throw out some british officals!
Say no more! Say no more! (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070719/ap_on_re_eu/poisoned_spy;_ylt=AmOnHyClrzvxH3fZfj18Ytms0NUE)

[Jimbuna]

Britain's refusal to extradite exiled tycoon Boris Berezovsky to face embezzlement charges, and by Kremlin allegations last year of spying by British diplomats.

Can't have it both ways Gordon :nope:

[USS_shipmaster]

[quote=w-subcommander]Bezezovsky is just genious criminal businessman with PHD in math and sweet political intentions of a crokodile. If he got a refugee status in Great Britain that means Iranian President will be next person granted refugee status thanking HM Goverment. But Brits forgot (or I believe they dont want to know) that according Russian Constitution /Supreme Law / russian citizen cant be extradicted to any other state for trial. In these case British investigators have to go to Russia and do their job questioning everyone who was related by their opinion in the case and then write a petition to russian court.
quote]

Nice law to have, if Russian citizens want to go abroad to commit assassinations or other crimes.:dead: Killing Litvinenko was just so stupid. Im starting to think there is some major power strugle going on behind the scenes in Russia. Thats never good.
Is there some good source somewhere on the web who is who inside the Kreml?
You forgot that USA did not have a tradition to extradict USA citizen to any country from its own soil for a long time. And Brits do not like to do it.
There is mainly massmedia histeria. I donot like Putin. But Brits PM behaviour is just gaining political points
You want Putin to broke its own Constitution. :up: LOL!!! :rotfl: Double standard is all around. All world policies are made from it.
Mankind smells like sh*t...
But may be you do not feel it in your ecological clean enviroment.

[XabbaRus]

Bu tunder the 1957 treatey Russia can refuse extradition. AFAIK the russians have offered to prosecute in a Russian court but the Brits have refused. Citing unfair trial. How can Lugovoi expect to get a fair trial when the media in Britain have in effect considered him guilty from the off and with the amount of media coverage how can a jury give a fair verdict.

Also how anyone can trust what Berezovsky spews out I don't know.

[Happy Times]

Bu tunder the 1957 treatey Russia can refuse extradition. AFAIK the russians have offered to prosecute in a Russian court but the Brits have refused. Citing unfair trial. How can Lugovoi expect to get a fair trial when the media in Britain have in effect considered him guilty from the off and with the amount of media coverage how can a jury give a fair verdict.

Also how anyone can trust what Berezovsky spews out I don't know.

You really think Lugovoi is innocent? The radioactive trail he left through Europe?:roll:
We know he wont get sentenced in Russia. So if Russians start killing people in Europe we should start killing them in Russia. How do you like them apples?

And British officials confirmed the Berezovsky, assassination attempt.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2100345.ece

Berezovsky, is what he is, but Putin and his crew have commited more crimes than him so cut the double standards.

[Jimbuna]

Berezovsky, is what he is, but Putin and his crew have commited more crimes than him

Putin certainly aint the innocent he would have the world believe :nope:

Just a little more refined than his predecessors :yep:

[XabbaRus]

Double standards. I never said the Kremlin doesn't have blood on its hands, but they make Berezovsky out to be a saint. I wonder how many journos were killed on his orders cos they got too close to his dealings?

Face it Happy you just don't like Russia and every thing you have to say about Russia is bad.

[Happy Times]

Double standards. I never said the Kremlin doesn't have blood on its hands, but they make Berezovsky out to be a saint. I wonder how many journos were killed on his orders cos they got too close to his dealings?

Face it Happy you just don't like Russia and every thing you have to say about Russia is bad.

Could you tell what good is going on in Russia at this moment? Or what good does Russia has to offer for the rest of us? Do we have to like them, do they like us?

Interesting read.
Especially this part.

Russian Duma passed a law authorizing the Russian President to use secret services as "death squads" in order to eliminate "extremists" -- even on the foreign territory (Federal Law of 27 July 2006 N 153-F3).



At the same time, the Duma amended another law, expanding the definition of "extremism" to include anyone "libellously" critical of the current Russian regime (Federal Law of 27 July 2006 N 148-F3).


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26509

[w-subcommander]

Russian Duma passed a law authorizing the Russian President to use secret services as "death squads" in order to eliminate "extremists" -- even on the foreign territory (Federal Law of 27 July 2006 N 153-F3).
At the same time, the Duma amended another law, expanding the definition of "extremism" to include anyone "libellously" critical of the current Russian regime (Federal Law of 27 July 2006 N 148-F3).


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26509

Happy... You re so NAIVE. USA, UK, France, Israel and all major states have "death squads". Finland is too pure and innocent (sorry i meant neutral) to have its hands dirty... Green peace deeds are much better.
About the laws ..... :-) Do you heard for example about Partiotic Act???? :rotfl:Very interesting reading.
Politics is dirty stuff...
Its your problem do you like russia or russians or not.
Every Nation has a lot of stuff in its history to be proud of and to be ashamed of...

And again UK wants to make Putin brake its own Constitution to extradict Lugovoy. Interesting idea!!!!
HM Goverment and Putin Administration both are dancing in very pornografic way.
When people start talking about UK foreign policy I remind my self that English crown refused to give Nicolas II( UK king's cousin) and his family refugee status and after Nicolas II murder it was crying so lowdly about bolsheviks cruelty!!!!!
"England never had long term friends only long term interests." Lord Chamberlain.

[CptSimFreak]

I guess Fins are still pissed off for getting freedom by Lenin. :rotfl:

[w-subcommander]

I guess Fins are still pissed off for getting freedom by Lenin. :rotfl:

Yes. Lenin did it. They are still so happy!:hmm:

[Happy Times]

I guess Fins are still pissed off for getting freedom by Lenin. :rotfl:

Yes. Lenin did it. They are still so happy!:hmm:


Yeah, sure..:roll:

Suggested reading, its your history also.

Grand Duchy of Finland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Finland

Russification of Finland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Finland

Finnish Jäger troops

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Jäger_troops

Finland's declaration of independence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland's_declaration_of_independence

Finnish Civil War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Civil_War

[XabbaRus]

Happy maybe you should read this article

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2156186.ece
Makes interesting reading.

[The Avon Lady]

7 OCTOBER
Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, a critic of the Russian government and in particular the war in Chechnya, is shot dead in Moscow. Mr Litvinenko begins to investigate amid claims she was killed because of her work.
11 months later: 10 arrested in Russian reporter's death (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070827/ap_on_re_eu/russia_politkovskaya;_ylt=AiFKqwMMhinJQbgsvDY0INOs 0NUE)