Neutral ships

[Subwolf]

Jan-40, I attacked a convoy at night, two ships sunk. Didn't check the flags before the attack but they were both norwegian, and I got very little renown for this patrol.

What the h... are neutral ships doing in convoys? I thought every ship in a protected convoy is an enemy ship...but not in SH3? :damn:

Oh well I better figure out what I attack from now on...

[Biggles]

The escorts are there to prevent people like you to commit warcrimes.:up:

[melnibonian]

Yes that's one of the problems with SH3. If a neutral ship is inside a convoy it is not considered fair game:shifty: Let's hope that GWX will change this

[Subwolf]

Thanks, I see...hope it's fixed, not very realistic.

[AVGWarhawk]

I believe neutrals did in fact move with the convoys. Sounds like a discussion to me:up:

LET HER' RIP!

[Herr Russ]

I ran into the same thing this weekend.. 3 neutrals in the middle. Luckily my spread missed them & took out hostiles instead..

[Warmonger]

To my knowledge the only neutral ship sunk out of a convoy that stirred up major discussions was the US DD Reuben James.

All other neutrals travelling within convoys knew and accepted that they could be target of a sub attack.

[Subwolf]

The escorts are there to prevent people like you to commit warcrimes.:up:

Yes, I'm no longer a respectable uboat commander, Donitz gonna strip my medals and send me to clean barracks when he hears about this.

[Subwolf]

To my knowledge the only neutral ship sunk out of a convoy that stirred up major discussions was the US DD Reuben James.

All other neutrals travelling within convoys knew and accepted that they could be target of a sub attack.

You mean neutral ships in convoys was common? The Reuben James was on escort duty wasn't it? Then I can't understand why it was considered a neutral ship. That DD asked for it.

[melnibonian]

Yes neutral ships in convoys were common during the initial stages of the war (after 1942 almost everyone was at war with Germany)

Technically speaking I think the neutral ships were considered neutral and the Prize Regulations applied. Practically they were supporting the enemy and after 1939 the Germans were shooting at almost anything in a convoy. For single ships things were different as there the Germans were a bit more 'understanding' of their neutrality.

As far as the US ships were concerned there was a big effort from the Germans to avoid hitting them but there was such 'hate and mistrust' on both sides that 'accidents' (as they were calling them) were common

[Warmonger]

To my knowledge the only neutral ship sunk out of a convoy that stirred up major discussions was the US DD Reuben James.

All other neutrals travelling within convoys knew and accepted that they could be target of a sub attack.
You mean neutral ships in convoys was common? The Reuben James was on escort duty wasn't it? Then I can't understand why it was considered a neutral ship. That DD asked for it.

Well, yes, kind of but still it was from a neutral country, strictly seen...:-?

[sonicninja]

in my humble opinion, if its on the roof (surface) then its a target :88)

Thats the way im running things on U-48 anyway:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

in my humble opinion, if its on the roof (surface) then its a target :88)

Thats the way im running things on U-48 anyway:up:

That's right....they are sleeping with the enemy:nope: Sink'em and screw the renown!!!!

[Warmonger]

If you keep a healthy ratio of sunk enemies to sunk neutrals it won't harm you that much anyway.
To leave lone neutrals alone but accept the occasional neutral sunk in a convoy seems to be fair enough.

[Subwolf]

Yes but I wanna upgrade my boat as fast as possible, so I can't afford loosing renown.

From now on I'm gonna search convoys with the external cam and locate the neutrals...I guess that's mainly U.S and Norwegian ships.

[SubCommander7142]

I just hate when the neutrals are the major tonnage fat cats in the convoy. I sank a T2, biggest one in this particular convoy and come to find out, it was an American. Couldn't see the flag in the storm..., I could blame it on the storm..., yeah, thats what I'll do :arrgh!:

[Warmonger]

Yeah, I think Teddy will surely ... understand .... this. :arrgh!:

[panthercules]

The easy fix for this is simply to tweak/edit your .cfg file to remove the renown penalty for sinking neutrals. The game unfairly/inappropriately treats neutral ships in convoys as off-limits, and I find having to use the external cam to identify and eliminate these targets is too distorting and immersion-killing. I long ago made this fix, so I don't have to worry about being unfairly penalized for attacking convoys any more. Since I have enough self-discipline to still treat neutrals sailing alone appropriately, this fix doesn't really have any downside in terms of getting to appropriate results as far as my renown totals go.


If you want to try it, it's easy - just roll-back SH3 Commander and make the following change:Go into SilentHunterIII\data\cfg\ and open basic.cfg file – near the top is a section labeled "[RENOWN]" – in the line "NEUTRAL=-1", change the "-1" to "1"

I haven't tried it, but you might also be able to change the "-1" to "0", which if it worked would mean that you wouldn't be penalized but you also wouldn't be rewarded with renown for sinking neutrals, in case you need a little help with your self-discipline on those solo neutrals :)

[Deep-Six]

I am going to try that.:)

[AG124]

after 1942 almost everyone was at war with Germany

In stock/vanilla SHIII, I think the only neutral nation after 1942 is Sweden. Of course, if you are using one of the major mod packs, there are many other neutral nations to look out for late in the war, (most prominently Spain, Portugal, Argentina, and Turkey).

In real life (to quote an author whose name I forget), there were neutrals and there were "neutrals." In other words, certain neutral nations seemed to be more off-limits for U-Boats than others (due to the friendliness of the nation in question). For example, at least at certain points in the war, it wasn't too serious if a U-Boat comander sank a Brasilian, Panamanian, or Portuguese vessel (even while these nations were neutral, as only Portugal never entered the war of these three). But sinking an American, Spanish, or Argentine vessel would normally have had graver consequences (at least from what I have read).

[bookworm_020]

No Brazil is still a neutral after 1942. I met a couple of them off New York.

The US was escorting convoys from late 1940-early 1941 deep into the atlantic.It was one of the few ways that FDR could help England without breaking neutrality. There were a couple of cases of escorts being attacked and attacking U-boats, with losses on both sides.

[AVGWarhawk]

No Brazil is still a neutral after 1942. I met a couple of them off New York.

The US was escorting convoys from late 1940-early 1941 deep into the atlantic.It was one of the few ways that FDR could help England without breaking neutrality. There were a couple of cases of escorts being attacked and attacking U-boats, with losses on both sides.

There was a longitude line the US was not allowed to cross, kind of like the no fly zones. This was set up by Roosevelt. Like Nookworm stated, this was FDR answer to helping get the lend/lead material to England but still stay neutral. Free lance merchants that were neutral transported these materials and were part of the convoy. Donitz did state that US destroyers could be attacked if the destroyers were provoking a battle.

[HunterICX]

:hmm: I cant remember when I shot a neutral because my BDU keeps replying after I sunk a ship ''KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!'':doh:

[Subwolf]

The easy fix for this is simply to tweak/edit your .cfg file to remove the renown penalty for sinking neutrals. The game unfairly/inappropriately treats neutral ships in convoys as off-limits, and I find having to use the external cam to identify and eliminate these targets is too distorting and immersion-killing. I long ago made this fix, so I don't have to worry about being unfairly penalized for attacking convoys any more. Since I have enough self-discipline to still treat neutrals sailing alone appropriately, this fix doesn't really have any downside in terms of getting to appropriate results as far as my renown totals go.



If you want to try it, it's easy - just roll-back SH3 Commander and make the following change:Go into SilentHunterIII\data\cfg\ and open basic.cfg file – near the top is a section labeled "[RENOWN]" – in the line "NEUTRAL=-1", change the "-1" to "1"


I haven't tried it, but you might also be able to change the "-1" to "0", which if it worked would mean that you wouldn't be penalized but you also wouldn't be rewarded with renown for sinking neutrals, in case you need a little help with your self-discipline on those solo neutrals :)



Thank you panthercules, guess I have to do it this way. It's cheating but so is using the ex cam.

[panthercules]

Thank you panthercules, guess I have to do it this way. It's cheating but so is using the ex cam.

Well, I'd say it's only "cheating" if you abuse it to start sinking neutrals traveling alone - since neutrals traveling in enemy convoys were actually considered fair game under the rules of engagement, changing the .cfg file to reflect this reality shouldn't be considered "cheating" IMHO.