Swordfish torpedo attacks on U-boats

[sergbuto]

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/SwordAttack01.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/SwordAttack02.jpg

My boat after such an attack
http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/SwordAttack03.jpg

[Roads88]

Wow... have not seen that before...Did the rear gunner cut loose on you.:cool:

[bigboywooly]

Cool Serg
Is that with an AI torpedo or the same as the PT boats mod ?

[sergbuto]

Wow... have not seen that before...Did the rear gunner cut loose on you.:cool:

The gunner is not there just for the ride. His job is protect the plane against attacks from behind/above. Although at some angles, he can shoot at the boat as well. However, this is just a 7.62-mm gun which can't do much damage. The problem with the stock damage model for U-boats is that the watch crew on the bridge does not get killed under gun attacks, but only when you manned the deck or AA guns. Hurricane and Fulmar when strafe with their eight 7.62-mm guns are suppossed to wipe off most of the watch crew from the bridge but that does not happen even upon accurate shooting.

[sergbuto]

Is that with an AI torpedo or the same as the PT boats mod ?

It is based on similar principle as in the PT boats mod.

[bigboywooly]

Fulmar

Fulmar ??

[Safe-Keeper]

Looking forward to it being released. Would be great if it was packed into the GWX mod.

Shouldn't a direct hit from a torpedo mean death to your sub, though?

[sergbuto]

Fulmar

Fulmar ??

Yes, Fulmar. The same goes for six 0.5in guns of Wildcat.

[bigboywooly]

Got any screenshots of them Serg ?

[sergbuto]

Shouldn't a direct hit from a torpedo mean death to your sub, though?

Yes, it should. But SH3 subs in the stock game are on-purpose greatly strengthened by Devs for playability reasons (and I would guess they remain so in different mods).

[sergbuto]

Got any screenshots of them Serg ?

Only Wildcats screenies at hand at the moment, taken during the rocket and strafe attack

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/Wildcat.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/WildcatAttack01.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/WildcatAttack.jpg

[bigboywooly]

Sweet
You going to release them ?

[sergbuto]

Some day.

[bigboywooly]

Some day.

:rotfl: lol ok mate

[stabiz]

So you guys have made AI torpedoes work? What about enemy subs?

[Safe-Keeper]

AI torpedoes have actually worked for some time. Check out Serg's site (see his signature;)).

Only Wildcats screenies at hand at the moment, taken during the rocket and strafe attackYou're just begging me to ask how rockets work, aren't you?

OK, how do rockets work? Do they have a smoke trail?

[Cdre Gibs]

As much as I like what Serg does (when he finaly posts screen shots that is) I never get excited any more since its now seems to be a trend of his to tease the hell out of ppl then leave em hanging - forever.

Case in point:
Originally Posted by sergbuto
Some day.

Another 1 in the same boat is Ibecomelife, simply out standing work, nice screen shots, never see a damn thing (well not very much). So I have to ask, why bother posting screen shots if you never intend to release what the screen shots about, of if its your intent to release it near on a year later. At least the bigger mods only post screen shots an bits when a release is close.

Constantly waving a red flag under a bulls nose is parmount to suicide.

[sergbuto]

So you guys have made AI torpedoes work?

AI "virtual" torpedoes. ;)

[sergbuto]

OK, how do rockets work? Do they have a smoke trail?

No, but you just gave me an idea to try out. ;) It is the same principles as for shells.

The problem with using rockets is finding the way to tell the game engine that the loadout with rockets should not be used in the beginning of the war. In the EQP and CFG files defining the loadouts the date definitions are not used. That forces to create another copy of the aircraft with different EQP file and later entering date in the game.

[sergbuto]

Yes, it does. A stock swordfish attacks and bombs with diving. I have set it up as a level bomber. Then at low heights this fairly looks as a torpedo bomber run. The question is how to make these planes always get spawned and do the attack approach at low heights.

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Got any screenshots of them Serg ?

Only Wildcats screenies at hand at the moment, taken during the rocket and strafe attack


http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/WildcatAttack01.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/WildcatAttack.jpg
DEAR GOD!!! :huh: :dead:

[bigboywooly]

Well I guess if you add them to one type of airbase only - say the small one

C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Land

LAB_SmallAirBaseGB

[Unit]
ClassName=LargeAirBaseCa
UnitType=406
MaxSpeed=0.000000
MinSpeed=0.000000
Length=1
Width=1
[AirGroup 1]
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19401225
Squadron1Class=FBHurricaneMk1 <--------Replace with the Swordfish
Squadron1No=2

Then make sure those airbases are the ones close to coastal areas

As for the height not sure if you can adjust that in the .sim file in the aircrafts folder

[sergbuto]

I specifically meant spawning at low heights. SIM file defines only the lowest height for the aircraft. Probably, it will be necessary to script squadrons at low heights in the RND layer using convoy waypoints to simulate torpedo bomber waves from a carrier as well as along the coast to hunt outgoing and returning U-boats along with their escorts.

[sergbuto]

How is that for a smoke trail of four rockets? Just used one of smoke particle generators already in the game.

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/Beau_rocket_attack01.jpg

[WilhelmSchulz.]

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:
After a few munits... WOW!!!!!
Your making a Beufighter too?! :huh: :rock:

[sergbuto]

It is necessary to create new object #rocket_smoke in particlies.dat.

Yes, I know. That 's what I was trying to avoid doing. Because it means spending a lot of time in tweeking the parameters to full satisfaction. :)

[sergbuto]

It is coming

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/Rocket07.jpg

[sergbuto]

Do you apply AirTorpedo?
If you do not apply, why that?
Look my fast sketch:
Min height = 30m (in *.sim);
Max height = 50m (in mission);
Speed = 220 knts;
Diving Bomber;
Loadout = 4xAirTorpedo;


Torpedoes do not fly, rockets do.

[sergbuto]

Why such form of a torpedo?
:o
Sorry, I about torpedos.

Yes, it is a rocket on the screenshot.

As to torpedoes, they are presumably electric or acoustic so that it is impossible to see them coming. The aircraft is much faster than a torpedo so it is expected to surpass the U-boat significantly before the torpedo hits it. Therefore, the use of AirTorpedo from the Bombs.dat is not applicable for such a purpose.

[Safe-Keeper]

The rocket trail is awesome.

At this rate, I won't need Silent Hunter 4.

[sergbuto]

For visual effect you can to use AI and Air Torpedoes.?

Yes, I thought about that. Unfortunately, the AirTorpedo needs to be dropped significantly before the aircraft reaches the boat/ship but the level bomber does not allow for that and drops the torpedo directly on a target which does not look realistic. If one can make it drop the torpedo much earlier, that would be perfect for visual effects.

[U-snafu]

Amazing piece of work:huh:

[sergbuto]

For visual effect you can to use AI and Air Torpedoes.?

Yes, I thought about that. Unfortunately, the AirTorpedo needs to be dropped significantly before the aircraft reaches the boat/ship but the level bomber does not allow for that and drops the torpedo directly on a target which does not look realistic. If one can make it drop the torpedo much earlier, that would be perfect for visual effects.
The visual image (at all absolutely real) gives more emotions, than
abstract image (invisible virt. torpedos)!


In reality, people on U-boat's bridge would never see an attacking torpedo unless it was a steamed torpedo with the wake. Therefore, torpedoes flying around the boat and almost ahead of the diving aircraft or landing on boat's deck are absolutely unrealistic (at least to me) and do not contribute to immersion, no matter how much emotions that can give. In a way, enemy torpedoes were pretty much invisible for the U-boat crew.

[sergbuto]

I think planes with torpedos came nearer to the target as it is possible more close, activation of a torpedo so close how much allowed.?
It is necessary to think as to make emission of torpedos for ~100 meters (???) from the target.


F.e., commonly used American airborne torpedo Mark 13 would have its exploder mechanism armed after water travel of 180 meters. However, the torpedo would often need as much as 275 meters of water travel to reach the pre-set running depth.

[rasmus1896]

i agree with you sergbuto ,that the watch crew cant see the torp .
but what about the splash when the torp hits the water?

great work. i realy like the rocket:D

[bigboywooly]

Damnit Anvart finish it :rotfl:
J\K mate
Cool
Didnt realise you were playing with AI torpedos also

[ref]

:rock: :rock: :rock: :up: :up: :up:

Nice !!!!

Ref

[Jimbuna]

WOW :o ....very very nice :yep: :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Go Anvart, its my birthday, got torpedo planes!!!! Really sweet!

[Sailor Steve]

Nice stuff, but I don't think a Hudson could carry three torpedoes.

[bigboywooly]

Damnit Anvart finish it :rotfl:
J\K mate
Cool
Didnt realise you were playing with AI torpedos also
There are some problems (and health too).
It is necessary to try to drop down torpedos as Shell objects,
but i have no desires and time.
:zzz:


No worries mate
Your health comes first

Nice to see all the same :yep:

[Paajtor]

Nice stuff, but I don't think a Hudson could carry three torpedoes.
...unless he takes off with reduced fuel-load, from a carier nearby?

[elite_hunter_sh3]

is this in GWX?? if it isnt then why isnt it in gwx?

[azn_132]

is this in GWX?? if it isnt then why isnt it in gwx?

Also, Where can we get the air drop torp mod to?

[Mush Martin]

This is Amazing as always, I posted a wish for this the other day. Serge you are amazing and your right it is all about immersion and it will be made or lost
in the flight profile.

Although deck crew normally wouldnt see torpedo attack. torpedo plane would still attack other Kreigsmarine units and surely one or two of us would like to watch that.

Why not rewrite to lowest minimum hieght of subject TB aircraft.???

and by way of idiotic suggestions from newbie morons......................

........ if you cant make a bomber fire a proper torpedo (ZaunkonigI) then why
not make a submarine fly and skin it as a B17 it would have machine guns and everything............LOL

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7088/sh3img61200719255328lc3.jpg
you never know if you want it bad enough you can make a lot of stuff happen............anybody got a used B-17 skin?
MM:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Seriously though Serge and all others working to develop Torpedo bomber
Thank you for your efforts and good luck. Rocket smoke would be awesome
to have, very hard to detect a rocket attack at the moment.

PS.where are the existing flight profiles located.

[_Seth_]

Just a thought, my fellow kaleuns... If we have this mod, and we encounter a plane with homing torps, what should we do..? Personally i would order crash dive, followed by a hard turn and silence, but does the torpedo have the possibility to "dive" down after the sub?
Edit; dont misunderstand, i would love to see this in SHIII! Please keep up the work on this!

[Mush Martin]

Just a thought, my fellow kaleuns... If we have this mod, and we encounter a plane with homing torps, what should we do..? Personally i would order crash dive, followed by a hard turn and silence, but does the torpedo have the possibility to "dive" down after the sub?
Edit; dont misunderstand, i would love to see this in SHIII! Please keep up the work on this!
The other day I had fired a group of 4 zaunkonigs at a group of 5 ships three fish homed on one ship and when the first one killed him the other two came back my way In order to recover the attack I went quick quiet let them slide past and then flanked ahead to turn them back around to chase me towards the escorts once they turned I did quick quiet again and they went back up range and took two of the remaining ships, not a bad improv if I do say so myself, but I think it might shed some light on the behaviour of homing torps when your the target. whhheeeewwwww!!!!
MM:arrgh!:

PS there is a diving angle setting in the torpedo code. but probably wont go deeper than presets

[_Seth_]

Just a thought, my fellow kaleuns... If we have this mod, and we encounter a plane with homing torps, what should we do..? Personally i would order crash dive, followed by a hard turn and silence, but does the torpedo have the possibility to "dive" down after the sub?
Edit; dont misunderstand, i would love to see this in SHIII! Please keep up the work on this!
The other day I had fired a group of 4 zaunkonigs at a group of 5 ships three fish homed on one ship and when the first one killed him the other two came back my way In order to recover the attack I went quick quiet let them slide past and then flanked ahead to turn them back around to chase me towards the escorts once they turned I did quick quiet again and they went back up range and took two of the remaining ships, not a bad improv if I do say so myself, but I think it might shed some light on the behaviour of homing torps when your the target. whhheeeewwwww!!!!
MM:arrgh!:

PS there is a diving angle setting in the torpedo code. but probably wont go deeper than presets
:rotfl:Cool way to do that!!!! Excellent!! Hope someone sorts this out! :rock:

[JU_88]

The Hudson could only carry one torpeedo!

For your infomation here is what each major torpeedo bomber could carry (topedos)

Hudson x1
Beaufighter x1
Swordfish x1
Avenger x1
IL2-T x1

Beaufort x2
SM 79 x2
HE 111 x2

JU88 X4

[Pants]

Sorry to hear about your illness Anvart
I for one really hope you manage to finish this OUTSTANDING mod matey, This mod for me is the Biggest thing missing from SH3.

Here's hoping :up:

[Safe-Keeper]

Maybe you could just release what you have and let, say, Serg or the GWX team finish it?

[sergbuto]

Hi, Sergbuto.
What news about your "Swordfish torpedo attack".?
My old work (~3 months ago) has not moved ahead at all.
There is no desire and time.

There are some problems (and health too).
It is necessary to try to drop down torpedos as Shell objects,
but i have no desires and time.

As to torpedo bombers with "virtual" torpedos, the mod is in use by me and friends of mine both for single- and multi-play between us.

As to 3D visualizing of AI torpedos, unfortunately I did not have much time to look into that further. As I see it, the main problem is not in actual 3D visualizing/activation of torpedos in water (there are a few means to do that although your method seems to be the best) but in AI aiming/firing (torpedo travel is relatively slow) and getting them into water in realistic way. Using amun_Shell may work for AI boats (needs testing) but could be difficult for planes to make it look as a realistic torpedo drop.

Anyhow, nice to see your progress with AI torpedos and hope you will get well soon.

[sergbuto]

Rocket smoke would be awesome
to have, very hard to detect a rocket attack at the moment.
Rockets use a particle (smoke) generator which was already in the game. I was too lazy to create a new one for the rockets. When I have more time I will try to fix the smoke.

[sergbuto]

If we have this mod, and we encounter a plane with homing torps, what should we do..?
SH3 devs said one of the reasons why they removed FIDO from the game was that it was almost impossible for the player sub to survive any FIDO attack.

[sergbuto]

For your infomation here is what each major torpeedo bomber could carry (topedos)

Hudson x1
Beaufighter x1
Swordfish x1
Avenger x1
IL2-T x1

Beaufort x2
SM 79 x2
HE 111 x2

JU88 X4

I did not know that some planes could carry more than one torpedo. Good info.

[sergbuto]

Well, well.
Serg does not wish to discuss on this theme.
ÎÊ.
I finish this theme.
:dead:

?????

[Mush Martin]

If we have this mod, and we encounter a plane with homing torps, what should we do..? SH3 devs said one of the reasons why they removed FIDO from the game was that it was almost impossible for the player sub to survive any FIDO attack.
Wouldnt this imply that if ubi tested and rejected it, then there must be
an aircraft already in game that has the flight profile for torpedo attack
when you use fido.......................
[edit] this would explain the mysterious TB designations.
[2ndedit] hardpoints arent something ive done any work on in this game, I dont recall seeing a hardpoint requirement just swap weapon in eqp. is that right. among the bomb rocket hardpoint designations is there a lingering code for an actual torpedo hardpoint
because the implication is that utilizing it would trigger the AI to use the torpedo flight profile.
MM:hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Nice stuff, but I don't think a Hudson could carry three torpedoes.
Steve, Hudson is convenient test object for me only, and than more torpedos on it, than better for testing.
Ah.:oops: Thanks for clearing that up.:up:

[A6Intruder]

[quote=JU_88]For your infomation here is what each major torpeedo bomber could carry (topedos)


JU88 X4

No Ju 88 could carry 4 torpedos. The Ju 88 A17, the real torpedo-bomber, could only carry 2. I do not know any plane in WWII that could carry mor than two. Especial no german!
Greetings from Germany:up:

[sergbuto]

But about: "Using amun_Shell may work for AI boats (needs testing) but could be difficult for planes to make it look as a realistic torpedo drop."
if Shell speed will be 2 m/sec, and Shell range ~ 20...50 m???


Although I did some testing with Shells quite some time ago and there might have been some errors along the way, I remember that setting the shell speed too low (e.g. the speed of a torpedo) would lead to AI gun hesitation to fire, probably because AI can't calculate the firing solution.

Do not recall that I was successful in reducing the gun range for a specific gun but I did testing with the purpose of making the gun unable to fire untill it in certain range to the target. However, guns kept firing anyhow although I never checked how far they would fire.

Anyway, as I said, those tests were conducted quite some time ago and there is some probability of errors on my side.

[ref]

Same here, all the attemps with amun_Shell where unsuccesfull, as Sergbuto said couldn't make the AI fire, or if they fire they do it at a high angle, resulting in torpedo launch almost vertical (early ICBM tests of the kriegsmarine :D )

Ref

[JU_88]

[quote=JU_88]For your infomation here is what each major torpeedo bomber could carry (topedos)


JU88 X4

No Ju 88 could carry 4 torpedos. The Ju 88 A17, the real torpedo-bomber, could only carry 2. I do not know any plane in WWII that could carry mor than two. Especial no german!
Greetings from Germany:up:


OOPS, you are right the JU88 could only carry 2, also I think the Beaufort could only manage 1 not 2 as i previously said. Not that the Beaufort is in sh3.... yet ;)

[JU_88]

double post... sorry

[HundertzehnGustav]

AMAZING AMAZING:rock: :rock:

keep this sh it up, planes are our enemies, far more than enemy DDs...:up:

[Vermin]

Even when planes could carry two, they seldom did operationally. The range/performance penalties were generally too great. eg. of the SM.79 "trials at Gorizia in the spring of 1938 proved that tjhe dual installation caused a marked deterioration in the Sparviero's performance" (and a nice pic of the installaion on an SM.79 on the ground). Its bad enough having to go slow and low without having to go slower still!

Vermin

[JU_88]

Even when planes could carry two, they seldom did operationally. The range/performance penalties were generally too great. eg. of the SM.79 "trials at Gorizia in the spring of 1938 proved that tjhe dual installation caused a marked deterioration in the Sparviero's performance" (and a nice pic of the installaion on an SM.79 on the ground). Its bad enough having to go slow and low without having to go slower still!

Vermin

Well i know the heinkel always carried 2 Ive never seen a pic where its only carryring 1. Mind you the He111 had a fairly limited role as a torpeedo carrier, which was handed over to the more capable Junkers 88.

[bigboywooly]

May possibly be Anvart
Not had much to do with the .act files

Have had a look but its a Greek to me
I was trying to find where the type=** are to add some more
Just adding them to the cfg files in Roster does no good

[hyperion2206]

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/SwordAttack01.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/SwordAttack02.jpg

My boat after such an attack
http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/SwordAttack03.jpg


Is this the new GWX Swordfish? The Swordfish I've seen so far (using GWX) didn't have a pilot or gunner. Am I missing something?

[bigboywooly]

No thats Sergs there
GWX uses the stock one at mo

[bigboywooly]

:o
Woohoo
You da man Anvart
Nice work mate

Now can that work on DD\MTB too ?

:rotfl:

I know I know
Chill

[sergbuto]

Cool. Can the air-travel of torpedo be made shorter?

[Paajtor]

Cool. Can the air-travel of torpedo be made shorter?
Yes, an obvious suggestion.

Can you set the torp's "fuel" (seems to behave like a rocket on launch) to zero?

[Jimbuna]

WOW :o .....Anvart :rock:

[Mush Martin]

well done looks quite scary MM

[Safe-Keeper]

Imagine three Swordfish bombers getting the drop on you and releasing a homing torpedo each into the water with you:o.

First rockets, then torpedoes. Planes are getting worse and worse by the minute. Next they'll add all these toys to MTBs and other surface ships and then I'll elect to simply stay in port until '45.