Enigma: Rising Tide (gold edition)

[ASWnut101]

Hey, I'm just wondering if any of you other guys have Enigma: RT.

I've got a question on why, no matter what, you cannon hide from a destroyer. It always finds you. even if you are at 1kt or 9kt, engines off or on, it will always find a way to kill you.

Also about AI depth charges: Why do they ALWAYS guess your depth correctly? They havent missed once yet.

[EAST]

depending on the mission, the destroyers may have been set with you as detected. If you start on the surface and they are within about 4000m they will detect you.

You can avoid them and lose them. Remember that when they drop charges you have a period of time after they go off to go flank, change depth and direction. 15 seconds after the last charge goes off, you better be engines off or at least ahead slow.

When they are closing in on you (and know your position) go at flank. They see you anyways so just go like hell. When they are within 1000k meters, cut your engines and go hard to port (or starboard). As soon as the charges roll, go flank, dive and turn the opposite direction (unless of course they are passing you on that side). Detection is based on depth, distance and sound.

Hope that helps.

http://www.deepsix-online.com/phpbb

[Bonfleck]

Enigma, imho is the most ridiculous submarine game ever :down:. I'd rather go to a goodwill store and find a commodore 64 and a copy of silent service than waste a minute on enigma.

[Wülfe]

Was thinking about buying E:RT, but my buddy let me try his copy that he got off of ebay... and imho i think he deserves a refund for the wasted bandwith & shipping. we got more enjoyment out of our old nes.

[EAST]

lol.

I love posts like these; insightful, intelligent, well thought out and informative.

Perhaps as defenders of good gaming taste you could elaborate on what you didn't like about the game. You never know, you may say something worth paying attention to....it could happen.

[Wülfe]

The most promising thing about the game was the voice interface, but with average graphics for the times, and AI that from the looks of it was frankensteined togeather not to mention that it cheats most of the time. Yeah I bet your wondering how i figured out what the ai was doing w/o cheating myself, ez: an external memory reader. When i saw them go to full attack mode when the motor at minimum power for only a second, I knew something was fishy. My guess was confermed when it pummeld my exact location & depth within a few minutes. No historical accuracy there. but if you like trying to beat games that cheat then by all means I say play it. If ya'll prefer more realistic stuff, i say find something else. Personally "Aces of the Deep", back in the day was a true challenge for me. They might have fixed a few things in patches, but i cant say since I've been having fun on WoW, and not worrying over a program that has AI issues. It kinda fell flat on its face with the multiplayer rumor i heard flying around. Maybe if they gave the development a few more years, and released it on the Wii they might have had better luck.

[Deamon]

an external memory reader.

Hey which one are you using ?

[EAST]

Interesting response.

The graphics were just average for the time. Somethings were a little better, some (like the ocean) a little worse. Our physics are good, but limited. Sound was good, sometimes great. Music was very good - a full original score by Tim Clarke. Our voice response was the best in any game period. Probably the worst thing about Enigma (besides no multiplayer) was the misunderstanding (and mis-marketing by Dreamcatcher) by the subsim afficionados about what Enigma was supposed to be. Everyone wanted a multiplayer AOD or SHx, Enigma wasn't that. Hell, half the people who bought it during the first 3 months didn't even realize it was alternate history.

Our objective with Enigma was NOT to create a ship simulation, but a command simulation - an experience: One guideline was never letting the player be more than 3 minutes from combat; we had to because we have no time acceleration in the game. Another was to create a high pressure situation, layer by layer in each mission. We did this by mis-direction, pre-discovery, carefully timed segments in the missions (enemy aircraft coming in JUST as you were coming in range of a convoy for example).

Face it, SH3 does a much better job of letting you pretend you are running a real submarine, you can plot your approach, take readings and use a TDC to setup your shots. But without time acceleration, SH3 would be beyond boring.

We wanted to focus on the actual combat experiences themselves - attack and avoid, broken approaches and pursuit, overwhelming odds, poor position on a sweet target. Command decisions.

I think you are mistaking what you are getting from looking at the memory. The AI was forced to play by the same rules as a player. They both utilized the same interfaces in the same way for controlling the ships/subs, they both utilize the exact same discovery methods and rule sets with only 1 exception: The mission scripts can be set for any ship to be aware of any other ship. In most cases, the enemy ships will be aware of your position at the beginning of the scenario, or shortly after it starts. This is likely what you were observing.

Not only does the AI not cheat, it utilizes group tactics (surface vs sub) as well as pretty standard naval strategies throughout. I know guys (not on our dev team) who could finish campaigns in a day. Some completed all the patrols and campaigns for surface and submarine for all factions within 2 weeks. Considering some of your comments, its clear you made your mind up before playing it. Nothing wrong with that, your loss not mine.

Incidently, even without getting a multiplayer version done, Enigma has sold very well and continues to sell a couple 1000 units a month more than 3 years after its initial release. We did it as a group of starving developers with next to ZERO funding and singlehandedly revived the genre. Don't agree? Check your history - SH3 was never coming out, UBI made that clear. Naval was dead in the water. Then Enigma started getting interest and making money...then UBI decided to re-look at SH3 (check the development start dates for yourself). Then came the Battlestations Midway video, Navy Field, et. al.

You may not like Enigma, but we accept your thanks for kicking this genre in the balls and getting it rolling again.

--East

[ASWnut101]

man, some nasty comments on this thread..........:o

to bad they didn't state what was so bad about it, just how things like SH3 were better.:roll:

Btw, Thanks EAST for the info!:up:

[navyvet]

I have never been able to get this game to install but once. At start up it locks up my computer up. I tried many times for support. Sent a copy of my computer and followed all directions. Never a response. I let it collect dust as i play SH111. What am I missing?

[EAST]

Navyvet, a lot of the installation issues had to do with Starforce. We have non-starforce versions being sold in Europe now and in January in Australia. Hopefully we'll be able to release a starforce free version here - or a patch.

[Theta Sigma]

I can't wait. :)

[Moezilla]

Interesting points brought up, I've been looking into getting this game and knew very little about it other than reading the box one day. I didn't get it and a couple of weeks later I went back but it was no longer at EB, EB was also no longer EB by then. lol

The game idea is interesting, I like the alternate history aspect and that you can play different sides in different fighting vessels. The game is an SF game so that right there puts the brakes on things for me, until it comes out as a non-SF game. Don't want to mess with that anymore, there's been enough discussions about SF to last a lifetime on the web already. lol

When a non-SF Gold version comes out I will give it a shot though, sounds like it could be fun.

[wetwarev7]

I've been eyeballing this game myself, trying to decide wether to get it or not. Does any who has the game like it, and if so what are the things you like about it?

[Enigma]

This game is awesome. I dont get the responses above, different strokes for different folks I guess, but I loved this game. The sub vs sub stuff was a hell of alot of fun, the "fantasy" play out of the war is awesome, the boats are creative, the action is intense, I loved playing with voice commands (although this could be a little troublesome on occasion)..its an all round great game. Its not for simulation nuts, its for people who love a great game. (I happen to be both. :up: )

[Enigma]

I'll also add this observation....

Once I got SH3, I put Enigma:RT away. The SH3 boys simply had a bigger budget and made a more advanced game. But today, after having both games for a long time, I'd play Rising tide. Why? Because it actually has a replay factor. To me, SH3 got old. It took a while to get there, but I dont find it that fun anymore. Drive around, spot a ship, sink it, drive around, spot a convoy, blah blah blah. It gets old. I stil love the game and im sure id revisit it, but Rising Tide has many more ways to play, options, platforms, and missions. Not just every mission being the same. (As in, go out and see if you find anything worth sinking.)

Oh, and noone who plays DW should be bitching about graphics. ;)

[Theta Sigma]

If you have a copy of SH3 and DW, then I don't see how you could pass over ERT. It's still one of the best.

[GlobalExplorer]

EAST, you are right that when ERT came out SHIII was 1-2 years off and that's why I bought ERT, and so did probably many, many others. I kind of enjoyed the demo and had read many good reviews. It was only later that I realized its arcadishness, and that most of the good reviews were written by the same 50 people.

After a few months and installing all updates I began to hate the game, but not because of the graphics. I think the graphics were really good, and the game was all in all very athmospheric. It was the gameplay that brought ERT down. I've never seen anything like it before - an arcade game disguised as a computer simulation, in a way that I so much wanted to like it but couldn't.

It is interesting to read that you believe to have revived the genre - thinking about it, that might be true. Very sad that you missed a great opportunity to create the new AOTD. The point of time was perfect, with AOTD almost 10 years old, the community literally starving, you just released the wrong product. And then, strangely, came the big UBI and showed you indy guys how to create a niche product and a classic.

Btw EAST, did you ever play SHIII with the newest mods? Wasn't it a big mistake to deny the users any kind of modding capabilities? Because on restrospect ERT with mods could have been a much different story!

Don't have anything against you as a person, it's just your game really upset me, and it should be allowed to say that.

Better luck for your next projects though.

GE

[Enigma]

Thats a bizarre post. You seem to take it all very personally.....

[ReallyDedPoet]

Bought the game, never played it much, SH3 GWX is my game, but to those who like what it has to offer, go for it. At the end of the day it is all about personal choice.

[Theta Sigma]

EAST, you are right that when ERT came out SHIII was 1-2 years off and that's why I bought ERT, and so did probably many, many others. I kind of enjoyed the demo and had read many good reviews. It was only later that I realized its arcadishness, and that most of the good reviews were written by the same 50 people.

After a few months and installing all updates I began to hate the game, but not because of the graphics. I think the graphics were really good, and the game was all in all very athmospheric. It was the gameplay that brought ERT down. I've never seen anything like it before - an arcade game disguised as a computer simulation, in a way that I so much wanted to like it but couldn't.

It is interesting to read that you believe to have revived the genre - thinking about it, that might be true. Very sad that you missed a great opportunity to create the new AOTD. The point of time was perfect, with AOTD almost 10 years old, the community literally starving, you just released the wrong product. And then, strangely, came the big UBI and showed you indy guys how to create a niche product and a classic.

Btw EAST, did you ever play SHIII with the newest mods? Wasn't it a big mistake to deny the users any kind of modding capabilities? Because on restrospect ERT with mods could have been a much different story!

Don't have anything against you as a person, it's just your game really upset me, and it should be allowed to say that.

Better luck for your next projects though.

GE

Thats a bizarre post. You seem to take it all very personally.....

Ditto. I don't remember EAST ever touting ERT as a "sim". It has some of those qualities, but from what I read, it was always meant to be a game first and foremost, and a great one it is, too. The patch situation was also resolved. You only need one if you bought the non-gold version. Additionally, a couple of cheats/mods were also available. I guess he missed that too.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Interesting response.

The graphics were just average for the time. Somethings were a little better, some (like the ocean) a little worse. Our physics are good, but limited. Sound was good, sometimes great. Music was very good - a full original score by Tim Clarke. Our voice response was the best in any game period. Probably the worst thing about Enigma (besides no multiplayer) was the misunderstanding (and mis-marketing by Dreamcatcher) by the subsim afficionados about what Enigma was supposed to be. Everyone wanted a multiplayer AOD or SHx, Enigma wasn't that. Hell, half the people who bought it during the first 3 months didn't even realize it was alternate history.

Our objective with Enigma was NOT to create a ship simulation, but a command simulation - an experience: One guideline was never letting the player be more than 3 minutes from combat; we had to because we have no time acceleration in the game. Another was to create a high pressure situation, layer by layer in each mission. We did this by mis-direction, pre-discovery, carefully timed segments in the missions (enemy aircraft coming in JUST as you were coming in range of a convoy for example).

Face it, SH3 does a much better job of letting you pretend you are running a real submarine, you can plot your approach, take readings and use a TDC to setup your shots. But without time acceleration, SH3 would be beyond boring.

We wanted to focus on the actual combat experiences themselves - attack and avoid, broken approaches and pursuit, overwhelming odds, poor position on a sweet target. Command decisions.

I think you are mistaking what you are getting from looking at the memory. The AI was forced to play by the same rules as a player. They both utilized the same interfaces in the same way for controlling the ships/subs, they both utilize the exact same discovery methods and rule sets with only 1 exception: The mission scripts can be set for any ship to be aware of any other ship. In most cases, the enemy ships will be aware of your position at the beginning of the scenario, or shortly after it starts. This is likely what you were observing.

Not only does the AI not cheat, it utilizes group tactics (surface vs sub) as well as pretty standard naval strategies throughout. I know guys (not on our dev team) who could finish campaigns in a day. Some completed all the patrols and campaigns for surface and submarine for all factions within 2 weeks. Considering some of your comments, its clear you made your mind up before playing it. Nothing wrong with that, your loss not mine.

Incidently, even without getting a multiplayer version done, Enigma has sold very well and continues to sell a couple 1000 units a month more than 3 years after its initial release. We did it as a group of starving developers with next to ZERO funding and singlehandedly revived the genre. Don't agree? Check your history - SH3 was never coming out, UBI made that clear. Naval was dead in the water. Then Enigma started getting interest and making money...then UBI decided to re-look at SH3 (check the development start dates for yourself). Then came the Battlestations Midway video, Navy Field, et. al.

You may not like Enigma, but we accept your thanks for kicking this genre in the balls and getting it rolling again.

--East


I have to totally agree with East here. I play Enigma from time to time, most often when I really dont want to get into hours and hours of 2048x time compression and still have the uncertainty of ever finding a contact. Sure, Silent Hunter 3 is a great game, and it surpasses Enigma only if you view Enigma as a die-hard simulation, which it isnt, and never really claimed to be.

Enigma: RT delivered where it counted, an affordable submarine game that someone could just pick up and play. Who cares if its got outdated graphics? It means it runs faster. It still had three campaigns (if I recall) and some pretty damn good immersion.

Oh, and with regards to the AI, its a common misconception. No, its not the AI's fault, you just need practise.

[EAST]

EAST, you are right that when ERT came out SHIII was 1-2 years off and that's why I bought ERT, and so did probably many, many others. I kind of enjoyed the demo and had read many good reviews. It was only later that I realized its arcadishness, and that most of the good reviews were written by the same 50 people.

After a few months and installing all updates I began to hate the game, but not because of the graphics. I think the graphics were really good, and the game was all in all very athmospheric. It was the gameplay that brought ERT down. I've never seen anything like it before - an arcade game disguised as a computer simulation, in a way that I so much wanted to like it but couldn't.

It is interesting to read that you believe to have revived the genre - thinking about it, that might be true. Very sad that you missed a great opportunity to create the new AOTD. The point of time was perfect, with AOTD almost 10 years old, the community literally starving, you just released the wrong product. And then, strangely, came the big UBI and showed you indy guys how to create a niche product and a classic.

Btw EAST, did you ever play SHIII with the newest mods? Wasn't it a big mistake to deny the users any kind of modding capabilities? Because on restrospect ERT with mods could have been a much different story!

Don't have anything against you as a person, it's just your game really upset me, and it should be allowed to say that.

Better luck for your next projects though.

GE

I actually met with Bob Loya at Vivendi to try and put together a new Aces Of The Deep, but they weren't interested in the genre at all. I then tried to discuss the acquisition of the old Dynamix name and the classic titles with it...again, not interested.

We didn't have a team that LOVED subsims so making it as accurate as it was (you CAN pick the ship silhouettes out in a lineup) actually created a lot of tension - almost to a man NONE of them except probably Blake Hutchins and Myself really put their heart into it. Making Aces of the Deep (even under an assumed name) was out of the question.

We literally built the Enigma for less than Ubisoft spent on Soft drinks and Pizza for SH3.

I own SH3 btw and do play it. I even payed extra for the hardbound book. Enigma just couldn't compete with the hardcore sims - we didn't have the budget to make one, we didn't have the budget (or a publisher) that could promote one...it just couldn't happen.

If you take Enigma for what it is, you will enjoy it. I still play it, I still like it, I'm still pursuing avenues to get the multiplayer version made...probably a pipe dream, but....

As for modding, you do know that there are modding tools to change everything from art to missions and campaigns right? You can't change the interface or add items (no script language), but you can mod quite a bit if the game.

BTW, shame on you if you play Navy Field and don't understand Engima...

--East

[GlobalExplorer]

I actually met with Bob Loya at Vivendi to try and put together a new Aces Of The Deep, but they weren't interested in the genre at all. I then tried to discuss the acquisition of the old Dynamix name and the classic titles with it...again, not interested.

We didn't have a team that LOVED subsims so making it as accurate as it was (you CAN pick the ship silhouettes out in a lineup) actually created a lot of tension - almost to a man NONE of them except probably Blake Hutchins and Myself really put their heart into it. Making Aces of the Deep (even under an assumed name) was out of the question.

We literally built the Enigma for less than Ubisoft spent on Soft drinks and Pizza for SH3.

I own SH3 btw and do play it. I even payed extra for the hardbound book. Enigma just couldn't compete with the hardcore sims - we didn't have the budget to make one, we didn't have the budget (or a publisher) that could promote one...it just couldn't happen.

If you take Enigma for what it is, you will enjoy it. I still play it, I still like it, I'm still pursuing avenues to get the multiplayer version made...probably a pipe dream, but....


BTW, shame on you if you play Navy Field and don't understand Engima...

--East

Thanks for the response. What you say might explain why ERT puzzled me. Half of it feels like a great sim (accurate ship models etc.), the other half like a silly arcade sim a la Secret Weapons Over Normandie.

Maybe the reason for me not enjoying the game is that I liked the "sim" parts of it, in fact very much, but it was ruined by the arcade elements.

Imo you guys did a really good job with the ships, the sea environment, and the sound. The alternate history thing was a very good idea.


As for modding, you do know that there are modding tools to change everything from art to missions and campaigns right? You can't change the interface or add items (no script language), but you can mod quite a bit if the game.


I think where you completely failed was the sub stealth issue.
And that could have been cured with a simple config files controlling AI policies, sensors etc. When I had ERT (~2004) there was also no way to create new campaigns if you did not enjoy the sequence of increasingly difficult missions that came with ERT.


I own SH3 btw and do play it. I even payed extra for the hardbound book. Enigma just couldn't compete with the hardcore sims - we didn't have the budget to make one, we didn't have the budget (or a publisher) that could promote one...it just couldn't happen.


I'm sorry you did not get treated better by your publishers / partners. But I don't agree with people spreading the idea that UBI was shelling out millions for their product. In fact I don't think the Romanians who made SHIII earned a lot. In some videos you see pictures of their horrible office in Bucarest - who of you would want to work there? I also bet they are always under a lot of time pressure (both SHIII and IV have a development time of approximately 12 months). I know it's not the topic of this thread, but it was the commitment of these guys that made SHIII outstanding, not UBI's cheques.

It's correct that I take subsims very seriously and personal. I am not blind though to see that some people love ERT. All people I know, however, threw it into the corner because of things which have mostly been mentioned in this thread.

GE

[EAST]

I wasn't dissing UBI on the amount spent - they did it for under 1.2M as I understand (including promotion), what I meant was, we had raised only a little capital and a great deal was spent on people (on the team) who in the end didn't even contribute anything useable to the final game.

My hat is off to the Romanian team who did a fine job with SH3. I'm looking forward to SH4.

When all is said and done, if you want a subsim, and the game you bought looks and smells like a subsim but ultimately isn't....you aren't gonna be happy. Thats fair.

--East

[em2nought]

I actually met with Bob Loya at Vivendi to try and put together a new Aces Of The Deep, but they weren't interested in the genre at all. I then tried to discuss the acquisition of the old Dynamix name and the classic titles with it...again, not interested.

--East

That's a shame, doubt Vivendi could even find the code to those old games anymore. A slightly revamped for XP Red Baron 3D would go over well I think. Still nothing as good out there.

[minsc_tdp]

I liked ERT. It is the reason I am here today. I'm very interested in truly new approaches to things, like the Wii controller, and often spend more time examining the technologies rather than actually playing. ERT caught my attention due to the voice command.

I bought one copy of ERT, played for a bit, and re-bought the gold edition later. I have both boxes. I was a little disappointed that there wasn't much noticable difference between Gold and Standard, but I didn't really check and didn't mind supporting the genre a bit.

I've spent many hours in SH3 and I must say, nothing can compare to the level of immersion when you are using solely your voice to engage in a battle. I never actually ran the subs much, mostly I hunted them. After a particularly long battle dropping hundreds of charges on two subs, an hour or so had gone by. I would stop my engines to hear better, and it was quite intense. I stayed still a bit long and spin around and see two subs surfacing simultaneously at my rear. I fired up the engines and as they're starting I see fish in the water. I'm frantically screaming into the microphone: "Start engines! Ahead flank! Right full! Engage! Engage!" It was too late and I was sunk.

ERT makes me wonder if being hunted 1 vs 1 (or 1 vs 2) by subs is more exciting
than commanding them. It's hard to be paranoid when you're the one stealthing around in the deep and know where everyone is - but above the waterline, it's like looking down into a brick wall. You know they're down there.

The voice was done well (smart move using the built-in windows speech libraries) and it added a level of immersion that is unmatched in SH3 or SH4. If SH4 had all its bugs fixed and added ERT's voice support, I'd never leave the house.

I've fired up ERT now and again to try to get into it, but lately it crashes and unfortunately that has discouraged me. But some of those experiences were truly unforgettable!

[donut]

Pay actual shipping To my paypal Acct.,& you can have It,like new. .donut@whc.net
One mans junk is anothers treasure

[EAST]

Pay actual shipping To my paypal Acct.,& you can have It,like new. .donut@whc.net
One mans junk is anothers treasure

donut, why keep hammering on us because we didn't make a game you liked? Very little difference between something a dedicated troll would post and your post...you're in danger of impersonating a brown donut.

[Reaves]

I thought Enigma was a great game. Can't remember if that was the first subsim I played that had the command room. Either way I was looking forward to the multiplayer of that a lot back in the day. Would have been my type of MMO.

[Mechman]

Enigma wasn't a sim, but it didn't need to be. Just like Counter strike is about action at the cost of realism, Enigma was about action rather than sim. If they'd ahd the money, they could have rivaled silent hunter, but they didn't so they did the best they could. The game was great at what it tried to do, and greater things were supposed to come, but sometimes life craps on your dreams. I would've loved to see the second enigma, of the multiplayer component, or the great lakes game, but they ran out of steam before they got to them. You can't blame them for not being able to make a million dollar game on a shoestring budget.

I personally have no doubt that if they'd had the money and the backing, right now we'd all be splitting our time between silent hunter 4 and Enigma 2: more rising tides.

Just think, the cold war, but with the germans winning world war 1 and a 3 way split at the end of world war 2........mmmmmmmm....alternate history.

[Reaves]

The alternate history was actually pretty good. The story was well written and believable imo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/Reaves_42/enlist-3.jpg

[TheSatyr]

ERT was ok for it's time,but my biggest beef was that they upped the difficulty on every patch. When it first came out,the campaigns were challenging but doable for me. After the final patch,I couldn't complete a single campaign no matter how many times I tried,so I ended up tossing the game. What ERT needed was scalable difficulty levels.

I do know people who will never buy another game developed by any of the tesseraction crew though. They felt lied to and betrayed over the whole multiplayer fiasco. They kept being told that multiplayer was just around the corner,but as we all know it never happened.

As for me,I bought it for the single player alternate history timeline,but I certainly understand those who felt screwed over by the lack of MP they felt they had been promised.

[Camaero]

ERT is what got me into sub sims! The alternate history was awesome and I had a blast in that game. It came out at a perfect time for me. As I mentioned on the SubSim Almanac thread, I enjoyed reading East's story and what he went through just to get ERT made. I guess enjoyed is the wrong word though, more like shocked! It's just not right at all. :o I would have absolutely loved multiplayer but unfortunately it never came to be.

Anyway, some of the people in this thread should be slapped. No class at all.

[rascal101]

If some one trys to give you rhis game, do not except it, it is crap

Enigma, imho is the most ridiculous submarine game ever :down:. I'd rather go to a goodwill store and find a commodore 64 and a copy of silent service than waste a minute on enigma.

[rascal101]

Actually that was a little unfair, the concept was great and ould have been interesting, but the developers never delivered or followed through, there were bugs that never got fixed etc etc

Where have we heard that before

If some one trys to give you rhis game, do not except it, it is crap

Enigma, imho is the most ridiculous submarine game ever :down:. I'd rather go to a goodwill store and find a commodore 64 and a copy of silent service than waste a minute on enigma.

[em2nought]

We have non-starforce versions being sold in Europe now and in January in Australia. Hopefully we'll be able to release a starforce free version here - or a patch.

Missed this the first time I saw this thread. Did a starforce free version ever happen in North America? Liked ERT, but HATED starforce.

[moose1am]

Well said. It's programming like this that makes the Maytag Repair man have to work overtime.

It's a game and not a very good one at that. It's in no way what I would call a sim.

There was more hype on this game that what was delivered in the copy that I purchased.


Enigma, imho is the most ridiculous submarine game ever :down:. I'd rather go to a goodwill store and find a commodore 64 and a copy of silent service than waste a minute on enigma.

[TwistedFemur]

E:RT

Ehh better to eat some cheetos and watch porn :dead:

[TwistedFemur]

Well said. It's programming like this that makes the Maytag Repair man have to work overtime.

It's a game and not a very good one at that. It's in no way what I would call a sim.

There was more hype on this game that what was delivered in the copy that I purchased.


Enigma, imho is the most ridiculous submarine game ever :down:. I'd rather go to a goodwill store and find a commodore 64 and a copy of silent service than waste a minute on enigma.


Maytag belongs to whirlpool now and they moved the plant to mexico or asia OSSLT is't not in the U.S. anymore

[EAST]

As always, nice to see the trolls out in force; rascal101, moose1am, twistedfemur...

Lets be clear, there are no serious bugs in Enigma, if you actually have information on one (on a legitimate version running from an original disk), you should send it in or post it. There are starforce issues, but no crash bugs, no lockups. If you keep your drivers up to date, turn your audio hardware acceleration to basic and turn your anti-virus off while playing, even starforce won't cause you trouble...ok, if you have a LITE-ON drive it wont work, but heh...buy cheap, get cheap.

We have a patch put together for North America that will patch all versions to no-cd check & no-starforce, we haven't finished all the legal wrangling to release it yet however. I can tell you we will be using a "ransom" model to release it when we do.

Just a thought for the knuckleheads out there, if you'd like to see Enigma be a better game, post some suggestions. After all, even the "hardcore sim players against Enigma" contribute.

Why? Because there is another Enigma coming. You'll read it first at SUBSIM. (And deepsix-online.com)

--East

[Mechman]

I'm personally looking forward to whateve sequels may come, as the alternate history and varied gameplay just aren't matched by any other game.

[minsc_tdp]

As a fan of ERT, I'd like to make one suggestion: Re-think your website approach. I always found the sites completely un-navigable and painful to visit. Consider having one site for all Enigma stuff, a basic HTML approach, a simple text-based navigation menu, with any multi-media stuff as clearly separate downloadable content. I just visited the deepsix-online and was completely disoriented. I wasn't sure what to click, and when I did click and something happened, it confused me even more... a very strangely designed website.

[EAST]

noted (in agreement).

[Mechman]

Also, don't skimp on the cheap freebies on the site, i.e. wallpapers, movies, crap like that. Never underestimate the amount of goodwill generated by a high-res render with some FX slapped on it.

[Reaves]

Also, don't skimp on the cheap freebies on the site, i.e. wallpapers, movies, crap like that. Never underestimate the amount of goodwill generated by a high-res render with some FX slapped on it.

Agreed on that one. :yep:

[GlobalExplorer]

Hasnt happened that much since I was here last time. Everyone who criticizes this game gets attacked by a mob.

[Mechman]

Also, release more of the backstory via the site. maybe get a decent writer to put together some of the historical highlights in fiction form.

[EAST]

Hasnt happened that much since I was here last time. Everyone who criticizes this game gets attacked by a mob.

"Criticism is the activity of judgement or informed interpretation." - wikipedia

Someone saying something is ****e isn't criticism, usually its just trolling or bashing - like an fanboy only backwards.

The early 20th century American social critic and humorist H. L. Mencken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Mencken), known for his "definitions" of terms, defined a demagogue as "one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots."

"..attacked by a mob" - demagogy

I see no mob, pretty much only me responding to trolls.

[Cpt-Maxim]

First of all Enigma always has been and still is the result of a developer who scores the highest in grade-A class act from start to finish.. directly responding to you, in many different forums that are favorites for many different people.. coming to you rather than forcing you to go to them, or not respond to you at all.

I've been to their city and participated in sinking someone in a multi-player setup wih ERT, and was awarded fine prizes for the priviledge of taking part, and seeing the company up close, talking with them about their plans and future.. I know how close they came to providing us with more more more...

I cannot disrespect anyone who comes in here and admits that they just cant play the game due to issues out of their control, like starforce, which is due to be patched out and removed soon.. which is yet again ANOTHER instance of Tesseraction helping the community and keeping their word to solve a problem, if they complain in a respectful way asking for help.

But you trolls that I see.. I sit here and watch tiny minds and whiny lamers who need their hand held in order to just turn on their PC, much less take care of it, or learn the least little bit of problem prevention, driver upgrades, virus protection, etc, then proceeding to blame the wrong people and demand attention like spoiled brats.. The worst kind of drivel coming from their mouths rather than engaging their brains to think of the potential to invest or travel across the country to investigate the product of a company which revolutionized naval gaming and stood by their word.

You cannot find any quote anywhere, at anytime from East that says you're going to get what you imagined is the perfect game for you.. or that you did purchase the perfect combination of different name-brand parts all in one conglomeration we call a PC that will never fail your fat lazy pizza eating high on energy drinks one-button mentality.. you've been "sold" down the silicon valley by some slick 2nd hand hardware vendor..

Yet some of you jettison garbage about how you were let down in the hope that your rant is enough to sway smarter people than you to avoid "command sims" - the Tesseraction vision - or go with you to join some other bug ridden piece of flotsam.. Those of you who never designed enough code to print "hello world" are the worst..

but for the life of me, the others who want to complain about how they cant win, they cant figure it out, they think the game cheats them.. need to get a life.. So maybe you were raised around friends willing to always download some hack or cheat so you could beat or get past some level boss.. and you are pre-conditioned to think in ways requiring you to believe you are master of everything, we cant blame you for all that.. but wake up and smell the java.. before it's too late, because those kinds of workarounds are ruining you.

East, maybe there is no cure for these "trolls" but to go back to playing some game where they are guaranteed to win just so they can say "it's all about me baby!" or make them feel special for winning so easy.. or maybe other grognards wont be happy until they are in the silent service for real, placing their very life and limb at risk. They scream about how their "entertainment" isnt sim enough for them..

On the other hand you trolls could stretch your limitations, skills, by a little reading comprehension.. I know some of you are still going around basically saying they "promised me this" or "I dont want it if they cant make it my way". Start your own gaming company.. where is "your" naval game being produced right now, years later? Are you really so ahead of Tesseraction that you can stomp around forums pointing out flaws without regard to some constructive criticism, or do you believe you have some greater success you've already created than they have?

I completed all the missions from all 3 factions, and submitted many helpful posts in forums on tactics you can use.. and as thoughful and considerate as I am, I even provided nice little picture diagrams for the losers who dont put any intelligence into actual reading.. but then again, you're probably not reading this either.

Have a great day! Looking forward to the future of tesseraction...

Cpt-Maxim

[kiwi_2005]

I loved the wave effects *rolling ocean* in Enigma Rising Tide, I think the devs of SH3 & 4 could learn from it.

[Sonarman]

Land, ports, LAN play and some form of dynamic campaign are the most important elements I think shoud be added to Enigma. I've always enjoyed ERT although I think it works much better as a surface game than as a sub game, there is a lot more to do and think about when coordinating surface vessels.

It would be great if EAST and could pattern the new Enigma after the old classic Microprose sim "Task Force 1942" adding anti air and anti sub ops to the mix of that game model would offer an incredible gaming experience.

[GlobalExplorer]

Hasnt happened that much since I was here last time. Everyone who criticizes this game gets attacked by a mob.

"Criticism is the activity of judgement or informed interpretation." - wikipedia

Someone saying something is ****e isn't criticism, usually its just trolling or bashing - like an fanboy only backwards.

The early 20th century American social critic and humorist H. L. Mencken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Mencken), known for his "definitions" of terms, defined a demagogue as "one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots."

"..attacked by a mob" - demagogy

I see no mob, pretty much only me responding to trolls.

People bought this game and they did not like it, so they should have a right to complain. Nobody needs to be lectured about how you think is a proper way to do it.

Imo, if this was a thread without developer participation, people would not feel so much obliged to weigh their words, and their would not be such an outrage if someone said they belong to the group who did not like the game. In fact there seems to be quite a few in this group, btw, so I encourage them not to feel ashamed and have their say.

This has turned into a thread where people discuss the game ERT, so I think both sides should have their say.

As to your next enigma game, if you stick with the graphics/athmosphere from Enigma (where you showed some considerable talent), the alternate history, and think of ways to have a realistic gameplay (like config files for the AI parameters or implementing sub stealth right out), I would have a look at it. The alternate history setting was certainly refreshing, the gameplay was not.

[EAST]

I think you missed the point of my earlier response. Saying it sucks isn't "having your say". Saying the sub stealth sux is right on, that IS having your say.

Everyone with positive or negative input is welcome. Just don't bother if all you have to say is "Enigma sucks *ss" OR "Enigma is a worthless waste of code"; hell, thats not even an opinion, its just pointless trolling.

That was my point.

[GlobalExplorer]

That makes sense.

Well then. For me the problem was that Enigma was a great game and an awful game at the same time. I absoltely wanted to play it for the athmosphere of being on a destroyer or submarine (lets not forget that was long before SHIII raised the bar), but I the gameplay (stealth, campaign, difficulty) - with your permission - "sucked" for me ;)

Maybe thats why this game is so polarizing the community.

Lets also not forget that modding features were missing. May I say, it should have been "data driven" like SHIII and people would have modded it quite extensively.

[EAST]

The modding thing has always made me laugh. Nearly everyone who complains about it not being moddable never looked into it.

Most people don't know that it is extensively moddable. Adding new ship models is even possible (we added the Iron Duke and a mini-sub after the fact for another project we were trying to do - all from a definition file), the models just needed to be submitted to us for conversion to the render engine's proprietary format. We have a full range of ship types defined in the engine. You want to add a new class: pick the type that most closely matches it and all you need is a model converted for it. These definitions are all done in a data file. We even provided a ship creation viewer for testing the ship profiles with your parameters.

Without our help the following could be changed:

All missions - this includes the ability to change pre-knowledge by the AI of a players position.
All Campaigns - maps, events, avi's etc. all are moddable in a set of definition files. (including the ability to add new ones, replace the existing ones).

text and voice reponses/tags, titles, etc.

all vehicles and weapons are skinnable (We even released a free model viewer to see your skins).

all effects are data driven and the datafiles could be changed
All sky, weather and ocean parameters are scripted and can be changed

The gui graphics could be changed, but not much because of a lot of hard coding. same with the ingame Hud.

Weapon and Ship parameters (speeds, tonnage, weapons and weapon placement, damage, audio, etc.) can all be changed.

The weapon to ship relationships could be modified also (AA guns are more dangerous to a PT boat than a Destroyer for example).

There are even tools available for creating the new missions and campaigns, unpacking and repacking our resource files, etc.

Once we finish the legal wrangling we'll release a no-cd patch that includes a new batch of missions that we created with these community created tools.

Seems that lots of simmers decided they didn't like it very early on and so didn't bother to try and modify it to do more of what they wanted: it wasn't AOD or SH(x) I guess.

[GlobalExplorer]

I looked into it in late 2003, and all assets I found was dlls and binary data files. There was also nothing about modding in your forums. I didnt care about ERT after that, so I take that you released the tools later.

The most important thing that I missed was something akin to a "sensors.cfg", where I could have adjusted the sub stealth to my liking.

I was also looking into the mission files, at the time I thought a dynamic mission generator would have benefited ERT immensely.

[TheGameKing]

I have never been able to get this game to install but once. At start up it locks up my computer up. I tried many times for support. Sent a copy of my computer and followed all directions. Never a response. I let it collect dust as i play SH111. What am I missing?

Enigama will not run under any form of Vista. The starforce drivers are not compatible (I am assumming you are running Vista) There is supposed to be an starforce update for Vista but as yet I have not been able to get it to work.

If you are running XP SP2 you must use the orginal cd. There is a code that is on a peice of paper that you have to enter in order to activate the game. DO NOT use the code printed on the cd. That is only for the multiplayer version of the game.
By the way the game is using starforce 7.0.00084 or above and that hasn't been broken by anyone yet. I have a workaround that works but not on game that have a seperate cd key because is is encoded into the master cd and can't be copied. (yet)

P.P.S. I also know there is a problem with this game and some Nvidia cards. If you are using a nvidia card try going to an older version of the driver. I'm using an ATI X1650 and it runs fine on my system.

My system:

AMD 4200+ 2.2g dual core.
ECS r-484m-m mother motherboard
2g ram
ATI Radeon X1650 256m video
320g sata drive
160g stata drive

Hope this helps

[TheGameKing]

I think you missed the point of my earlier response. Saying it sucks isn't "having your say". Saying the sub stealth sux is right on, that IS having your say.

Everyone with positive or negative input is welcome. Just don't bother if all you have to say is "Enigma sucks *ss" OR "Enigma is a worthless waste of code"; hell, thats not even an opinion, its just pointless trolling.

That was my point.

I like the game. The alternate history is a good story line. Who would think that the UK and Japan would be allies. The voice command is really great. I have microsoft Voice commander (which I don't need to use) and Enigma runs circles around it.

I'm about 50/50 in the game. I win half the time. They win half the time. I just did the Amercian (1st) campain (have to do it again). I got every thing right down to the last sub. Wouldn't you known it. I ran out of depth charges. That was in the 1st 15 min into the game. Well for the next 2 hr (all on voice command) we would play cat and mouse because all I had left was my deck gun and aa batteries. He would dissapear from the scope and I would shut my engines off (he was doing the same) Then he dame well surfaced right in front of me and let me have it with a torpedo. And I let him have it with the deck gun. We where both hurting pretty good (I had > < this much hull intergrty left) . I finally left the game and will have to do the campain again.

Thanks

TheGameKing

P.S. If your're wondering about my name it's not because I play a lot of games. It's because I have a lot of games. I collect games. 700+ and counting.

[EAST]

The update removes the starforce requirements as well as the "original cd in the drive) requirements. We're having good success with the patched Enigma running on Vista.

[swellfella]

Just want to get my coin in here. Ultimately, as has been said over and over, personal choice is what drives our tastes and desires in the realm of all pleasure (to coin a phrase). A guy who lives too much for my own well being in the land of near nod--my imagination--who simply cannot get enough of the notion of saltwater, high seas, and cracking gulls, Rising Tide is the most immersive, spell-binding, virtual reality gaming experience I've lived in to date. The Graphics, the top of list of hypnotic enducing features for me, are simply...spell-binding (incidentally, any version other than Int. Gold, [Black-label], I find cartoonish, and, simply will not play. Peroid.] The mood, music, sound, and genius of ship design and gameplay, pull me in, hour upon hour. I have two copies, a backup in case of catastrophe (sp), and am waiting as gleeful as a child for the update (and am willing to send in another 10 spot if it would hurry things). You don't like it. I don't understand. But then I don't have too. Neither do you have to understand my devotion to The Tide. After all, I can't even swim.

[nvrsummer2]

I just tried Enigma for the first time and was looking around for mods when I came upon this thread.

Some of you guys are real bastards!! Instead of badmouthing this game and passing on your negativity to others. Think about the consequences: Get this game swept under the rug and the game you were hoping for will never get made.

If you paid for it and dont like it, thats fine. But you should do your research before you drop cash blindly hoping for the 'Perfect Game' you want. Maybe try a demo or youtube ingame footage.
I for one passed on this game along time ago and am kinda bummed I did. Its no SH3 or 4 but it never was trying to be. I think thats what everyone goes in thinking when they play this one and are disappointed.

This game leaves alot to be desired, but whos to say this isnt the seed that was planted for the big perfect naval sim were all hoping for. Someone will see that appeal for a big budget surface/sub sim game. After all, look at how well SH has done over the years and the false hope that was sowed with destroyer command. If UBI would take from SH series and combine with some surface ships= NIRVANA. I think it would sell well. And were not talking tons of ships. Most of us would be quite happy with one or two highly detailed destroyers from axis/allies. And maybe some PT action.

We should show how much we really want a game like this instead of demoralizing the people who are out there trying!!!!

Whats the status on ERT2 or expansions?? Anything else comparable on the horizon?

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Watch the language buddy.

[nikimcbee]

whoa, necro thread. Curious why all these E:rt theads are in the "indie forum", as it is not an "indie" game.:hmmm:

[Deamon]

whoa, necro thread. Curious why all these E:rt theads are in the "indie forum", as it is not an "indie" game.:hmmm:
Perhaps because there is no ERT section on subsim.com ?

And didn't ERT started as a sort of garage production ?

[EAST]

Been awhile since I posted.

Enigma was indeed an indie project.

In a nutshell:

Bunch of developers got together when Dynamix closed (ACES OF THE DEEP!), raised some money from friends and family mostly, and went to work building Enigma. We got a publisher who only wanted a singleplayer game, we made it, they released it, didn't pay, we sued, eventually won ($1.6M against GMX and one of their corporate officers). We found another publisher, released the GOLD edition, they had trouble paying, lost our lead engineer and artists, gradual decline without funds or devs to create the multiplayer. Last year sold to Resurgent Interactive in Louisiana with the promise of HDV, E:RT 2, and Multiplayer (finally!)...they defaulted last September, Tesseraction and ENIGMA...dead. Closed the company December 29th, 2008.

Thats about as indie as you get. We did it all ourselves, no publisher paid for anything, we had allies like Neil, couple of the game web outlets, some press guys, but thats about it.

And for everyone's edification: Nickimcbee used to be an employee at Tesseraction; did research and some writing for us. He is a sharp guy, decent skills and can be a hard worker.

He also would fall into the category of disgruntled employee; we never had much money and you know what that does for morale. Take his Enigma posts accordingly.

Thanks to all who supported, if we can find a way to release the sourcecode or something we will....never know what can happen.

Kelly 'East' Asay

[nikimcbee]

whoa, necro thread. Curious why all these E:rt theads are in the "indie forum", as it is not an "indie" game.:hmmm:
Perhaps because there is no ERT section on subsim.com ?

And didn't ERT started as a sort of garage production ?

Why not merge them into the classic subsim thread, where the home of the game is? There is no work being made on the game, so it's not really " in-die". Just seems like it would fit more there.

[Deamon]

Why not merge them into the classic subsim thread, where the home of the game is? There is no work being made on the game, so it's not really " in-die". Just seems like it would fit more there. Well, I actually consider it indi. Maybe the classic forum could be also the right place for it but imo this is really hair splitting at this point. Sounds to me more like you are underburdened and have too much free time at hand to feel bothered about such minor things. nikimcbee... get a job :-j

[Theta Sigma]

And for everyone's edification: Nickimcbee used to be an employee at Tesseraction; did research and some writing for us. He is a sharp guy, decent skills and can be a hard worker.

He also would fall into the category of disgruntled employee; we never had much money and you know what that does for morale. Take his Enigma posts accordingly.
I had wondered about that.

Anyhow, that said, my own patience ran thin in regards to this project. As one of the few who didn't just pledge funds, but actually paid and have yet to be refunded, I also feel I have a right to be vocal about my frustration. My questions at DeepSix often go unanswered, and the these recent developments have me aggravated to say the least. I never expected all the business details to be laid bare, but your lack of contribution to the board is incredibly frustrating. Also, the "company", rather individual, to whom my payment was sent for this addon is suspect. It seems most of his online presence was self-authored, and I see little concern on your part towards those customers who have contributed financially.

Kelly, as always, I have given you the benefit of the doubt. ERT was a labor of love, and for all the hours of enjoyment I have had from playing it, I feel indebted beyond the price of the disc. There's really no other subsim that I have enjoyed as much (even DW and SH3/4). All said though, these recent developments have soured it. I'm not privy to what has occurred recently beyond your posts here and at D-S, but they don't strike me as the candid correspondence one would have with current and potential customers regarding an investor backing out of a deal.

Kelly, if bankruptcies are involved, or if you were scammed by this person, I wish you would come forth and say so.

In a way, I almost hope it was only that... :(

[Pioneer]

Disclaimer: Acquaintance of Nicki, buddy to East.

Ok, without splitting hairs, Enigma is hosted at D6 cause of a failed relationship elsewhere. While Nicki, East and later I were at TAG, D6 is a pet project of East and I, and because we have those ties, what's left of TAG is held there.

Now, corporate professionalism to the debtors of TAG and to a lessor extent Kelly and I, you may not hear us giving someone a bath...it's not done because it's business. East has been upfront about several matters relating to TAG including the GMX "how much money do you owe us that we may never see?' situation. He has taken a bath elsewhere from others whom are not so professional over matters he has no control over.

I doubt you will ever hear East claim that he lost $X at TAG, he's not that guy. He's the diplomatic professional that I have worked alongside with. Nor would I ever expect him to come out and say "When money evaporated, I mortgaged my house to get that money for the people who had paid." Again, not that type of guy.

I have suffered a huge loss from TAG, however, no where near as much as I suspect he may have.

I have attempted to recoup my $$ from the appropriate source (not East) and I am much like you, unable to get a response. That however does not mean that East is accountable, it's a case that he is the "poster boy" for it's success, which has carried over to it's demise. As for little concern...well, I disagree, however, that comes with the friendship of knowing some (not all) of what he did to get the money back.

There isn't a day that goes by that he doesn't lament the loss of TAG and our attempts to save it, it's like losing a part of your life. Unlike most of us though, we get to on with our lives and plug in each day for that pay check, he hasn't drawn a TAG paycheck since I started, and in fact, met a lot of his own expenses.

The claim of suspect towards the responsible entity, again, it might not be correct. This time last year I met both the Governor of LA and the Mayor of Baton Rogue whom were well aware of the TAG situation. From my own independent conversations with both those people, the infrastructure for Sink The Hood and beyond was there. They had it all laid out, in place, ready to go. And they were aware of Chuck and his dealings and the Mayor (I believe) had in fact played E:RT and enjoyed it.

In fairness I have received information from another source who has known Chuck 20 years and they report that this is his first occurrence of "let down". Bad luck it happened to East.

As a former employee of TAG, I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with him in the belief that East did the right thing by all.
As his friend, I'll be more then happy to stand in and go head on with an opponent.:rock:

[Sonarman]

As one of the few who didn't just pledge funds, but actually paid and have yet to be refunded,

I presume we are talking about the Hotel da Volta addon here, are you sure you were actually charged for it? I also placed an order but no funds were ever withdrawn from my account indicating that Chuck probably was an honest but unlucky businessman.

[EAST]

Theta Sigma:

Last year sold to Resurgent Interactive in Louisiana with the promise of HDV, E:RT 2, and Multiplayer (finally!)...they defaulted last September, Tesseraction and ENIGMA...dead. Closed the company December 29th, 2008.

No idea why Resurgent defaulted on the purchase, but the results are the same, TAG was done: We financed the purchase.

Incidently, I was developing HDV for Resurgent, but they are the principles (development and publishing). They licensed the rights to do HDV from Tesseraction, TAG didn't take, or for that matter even see any of the proceeds of whatever sales they may have made.

I understand your frustration and respect the way you expressed it. If we had anyway to give back the money Resurgent received from you, we would happily do it. To be honest, we don't even know who all bought the add-on, who was charged, etc.

That said, with Resurgent's websites all down and no contact information available, we are looking to see if Resurgent has been dissolved. If it has, we will release HDV in its current state (not finished). The good news is, the EXE does get rid of STARFORCE and the CD-IN-DRIVE requirement.

--Kelly

[nikimcbee]

[quote=nikimcbee]
nikimcbee... get a job :-j

:har: Oh, I have a sweet job.:yeah: This is a tempest in a teacup.:yawn: I just thought it would be nice to consolidate a few things.

[Theta Sigma]

As one of the few who didn't just pledge funds, but actually paid and have yet to be refunded,
I presume we are talking about the Hotel da Volta addon here, are you sure you were actually charged for it? I also placed an order but no funds were ever withdrawn from my account indicating that Chuck probably was an honest but unlucky businessman.
As posted at D6, I was indeed charged, and the funds were transferred. At the time, the option to place an order without being debited was the apparent intent, but when I did place it, that option was unavailable to me. With the added detail that the addon would be more expensive post-release, I chose to go forward. Naturally, I had not expected this outcome.

Disclaimer: Acquaintance of Nicki, buddy to East.

Ok, without splitting hairs, Enigma is hosted at D6 cause of a failed relationship elsewhere. While Nicki, East and later I were at TAG, D6 is a pet project of East and I, and because we have those ties, what's left of TAG is held there.

Now, corporate professionalism to the debtors of TAG and to a lessor extent Kelly and I, you may not hear us giving someone a bath...it's not done because it's business. East has been upfront about several matters relating to TAG including the GMX "how much money do you owe us that we may never see?' situation. He has taken a bath elsewhere from others whom are not so professional over matters he has no control over.

I doubt you will ever hear East claim that he lost $X at TAG, he's not that guy. He's the diplomatic professional that I have worked alongside with. Nor would I ever expect him to come out and say "When money evaporated, I mortgaged my house to get that money for the people who had paid." Again, not that type of guy.

I have suffered a huge loss from TAG, however, no where near as much as I suspect he may have.

I have attempted to recoup my $$ from the appropriate source (not East) and I am much like you, unable to get a response. That however does not mean that East is accountable, it's a case that he is the "poster boy" for it's success, which has carried over to it's demise. As for little concern...well, I disagree, however, that comes with the friendship of knowing some (not all) of what he did to get the money back.

There isn't a day that goes by that he doesn't lament the loss of TAG and our attempts to save it, it's like losing a part of your life. Unlike most of us though, we get to on with our lives and plug in each day for that pay check, he hasn't drawn a TAG paycheck since I started, and in fact, met a lot of his own expenses.

The claim of suspect towards the responsible entity, again, it might not be correct. This time last year I met both the Governor of LA and the Mayor of Baton Rogue whom were well aware of the TAG situation. From my own independent conversations with both those people, the infrastructure for Sink The Hood and beyond was there. They had it all laid out, in place, ready to go. And they were aware of Chuck and his dealings and the Mayor (I believe) had in fact played E:RT and enjoyed it.

In fairness I have received information from another source who has known Chuck 20 years and they report that this is his first occurrence of "let down". Bad luck it happened to East.

As a former employee of TAG, I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with him in the belief that East did the right thing by all.
As his friend, I'll be more then happy to stand in and go head on with an opponent.:rock:
Now I don't know Kelly beyond posts and PMs, but I have always wanted to shake his hand for his part in bringing ERT to us. When others attacked, I often defended and tried to understand. I don't consider don't him a "poster boy" for all the problems, but my comments are not unreasonable not knowing all the parties well. In fact, from your post (reading between the lines again) it would seem our efforts are directed at the same individual. I accept your statement about Mr. Bush, but my meager investigation spawned several failed online ventures and a house for sale. In all, not exactly a smoking gun, but combined with no current email address (to forward my PayPal invoice to), and even difficulty by more important parties in contacting him, I feel that's enough to fear the worst in the present economy.

At least Kelly has friends like yourself. He's lucked out there.

Theta Sigma:

Last year sold to Resurgent Interactive in Louisiana with the promise of HDV, E:RT 2, and Multiplayer (finally!)...they defaulted last September, Tesseraction and ENIGMA...dead. Closed the company December 29th, 2008.
No idea why Resurgent defaulted on the purchase, but the results are the same, TAG was done: We financed the purchase.

Incidently, I was developing HDV for Resurgent, but they are the principles (development and publishing). They licensed the rights to do HDV from Tesseraction, TAG didn't take, or for that matter even see any of the proceeds of whatever sales they may have made.

I understand your frustration and respect the way you expressed it. If we had anyway to give back the money Resurgent received from you, we would happily do it. To be honest, we don't even know who all bought the add-on, who was charged, etc.

That said, with Resurgent's websites all down and no contact information available, we are looking to see if Resurgent has been dissolved. If it has, we will release HDV in its current state (not finished). The good news is, the EXE does get rid of STARFORCE and the CD-IN-DRIVE requirement.

--Kelly
As I believe I said before at D6 (perhaps paraphrasing), had the payment I sent gone to you, I would have considered it a donation even if Hotel da Volta had not come to fruition. However, with a once mysterious, and now suspicious, third party as the payee, one who has seem to have stiffed others as well, I don't feel as generous. I have the completed PayPal invoice, and have attached it to my previous emails to that individual which have been bounced back. Kelly, I certainly don't expect nor desire you to personally refund me. It would seem you have suffered far worse in this endeavor. In fact, if the current venture is dissolved, and HDV is released as-is, I would feel more than satisfied with the end product as stated, albeit saddened by the losses incurred.

I appreciate the dialogue here, though I wish you could have said more earlier. The lack of details as to what has been going on are really the crux of my recent posts.

[EAST]

Understood, its been a pretty crazy 18 months. We'll have to have a beer one day (Next Subsim Gathering?) and share stories.

[Deamon]

Holly crab, how much lamentation here :o

A guy who lives too much for my own well being in the land of near nod--my imagination--who simply cannot get enough of the notion of saltwater, high seas, and cracking gulls, Rising Tide is the most immersive, spell-binding, virtual reality gaming experience I've lived in to date. The Graphics, the top of list of hypnotic enducing features for me, are simply...spell-binding (incidentally, any version other than Int. Gold, [Black-label], I find cartoonish, and, simply will not play. Peroid.] The mood, music, sound, and genius of ship design and gameplay, pull me in, hour upon hour. I have two copies, a backup in case of catastrophe (sp), and am waiting as gleeful as a child for the update (and am willing to send in another 10 spot if it would hurry things). You don't like it. I don't understand. But then I don't have too. Neither do you have to understand my devotion to The Tide. After all, I can't even swim. Personally I guess I am one of the guys who runs away screaming when a game just remotely smells arcadish. So I passed on ERT. However I have tried one of the early demos and the poential was immediately tangible. This was the first game where I had this distinct feeling of being trapped on a small shell, where the sea had this intimidating feeling, reminding you how much your life depends on that small boat. The immersion was great! I especially liked the degree of control that you had over the ship, with seperate thrust control and such where you could aid the turn.

I guess I should give it another try. Is it still in the shelf somewhere ? Without starforce maybe ?

@nvrsummer2:

Well said, but I just wish TAG would have went straight ahead to create a SHIII instead. Cause companies go out of business regularly and you never know if there would be a second chance. Personally I learned that it is better not to hope too much for things getting better. I made just too many bad experiences with that and many others just as well, so people will rather resort to badmouthing. It's hard to accept that your wish is not going to fulfill itself. :D

I can certainly understand that many people are upset about ERT, it has just to much potential to be wasted for an arcade sim, now that is inciting, at least for the hard core player. I think nothing can anger a hard core simer more than a game with a great potential for a hard core sim, in that he has put his hopes and expectations in to, that is then being "wasted" for something rather arcadish.

But on the other hand there are of course a lot of people who like it because it is what it is. I guess you cannot satisfy everyone.

If TAG had the intention to go into a more hard core direction later, like SHIII then they maybe should have communicate this to the audience unmisstakeble and early on. I think all the badmouthing is just their way to try to move TAG to make a hard core sim or it is just retaliation for the missed opportunity. Since a good hardcore sim was overdue since a long time, naturally many players have put their hope into ERT that didn't fullfiled itself and then they went nuts.

@EAST:
Thanks for the clarification EAST!

This is so unfortunate. You guys would have deserved a better faith than this!

But how does it continue for you guys now ? Do you want to pull out another project ? Is D6 still going ?

[EAST]

Well, once we recover from all of this...

Deep Six will keep going and ultimately see the end, but its most definitely not a simulation. I love sims and I love the genre, I can't see ever leaving it.

[Snow White Sorrow]

Command simulation focusing on immersion and decision-making over technical realism? Now why do I think this will be a worthy purchase? (if I can find one)

I note the comments on realism but refer to IL-2 Sturmovik (flight sim); it's not even 70% realistic in terms of flight modelling and historical aircraft performance but the sense of immersion from the unique 3D engine, that gave proper speed, depth and sense of flight, worked magic.

[ChristopherTarana]

I just downloaded a copy of the ERT ISO from subsim.com and installled it
yesterday. I'm running Windows 7. I had Danger From The Deep on the laptop but took it off and uninstalled it. ERT totally blows DFTD out of the water!!!:Kaleun_Salute:
I have Action Stations! Gato, Silent Service 1 and 2, Up Periscope and Wolfpack running on Defend Reloaded. I also have SH1 and CAOD running, both from AW sites. CAOD actually runs under Windows 7 fine. I look for simulations that are generally considered accurate and have scenario editors like SH2 or Wolpack I did buy a copy of Janes i688 Attack Sub too at a used book store! Although ERT has some elements of War Fiction built in, I find it is actually more complete than Danger from the deep. The sounds are better, the gameplay is better and graphics are better too. I
tried a copy of Silent Hunter 2 from a AW site but ended up deleting that too. I put a copy of ERT on a thumb drive for my son to play.

Christopher Tarana