FuMO-391 - full functionality

[rowi58]

Hi everyone,

you know that problem: After choosing FuMO-391 Radar for type XXI submarine you always got the messages "Radar Destroyed" and "Radar Antenna Destroyed". Looking at the radar-screen, it seems as if the FuMO 391 is active - but contacts were neither displayed nor announced by the RO.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8864/fomo3912wl1.jpg

With this "BugFix" you will be able to use this radartype when you are on snorkel depth (max. 15 meters!). There will be no more messages like "Radar Destroyed".

You can DL it at UBRS (it is uploaded some minutes ago) or use the following link:

http://files.filefront.com/FUMO391_BugFix7z/;6053233;;/fileinfo.html

Read the "ReadMe.txt" for more details and for installation. The Basic.cfg file must be edit manualy (cause everyone has serveral changes in this file - fatique, renown, awards - i did not include a ready-to-install-Basic.cfg).

Greetz
rowi58

[Cdre Gibs]

Only 1 small problem. The radar unit does NOT go ontop of the Snorkel, the RWR does. The Anttena you have used is NOT a Radar Anttena, is the RWR Anttena. The actual Radar anttena for the TypeXXI is missing.

The TypeXXI could NOT use its radar when submerged, only its RWR ontop of the snorkel.

[rowi58]

Only 1 small problem. The radar unit does NOT go ontop of the Snorkel, the RWR does. The Anttena you have used is NOT a Radar Anttena, is the RWR Anttena. The actual Radar anttena for the TypeXXI is missing.

The TypeXXI could NOT use its radar when submerged, only its RWR ontop of the snorkel.

Hi,

it is the original antenna of the FuMO 391 as Ubisoft has put into the Sensors.dat (extract all and take a look at the FUMO391.obj). Ubisoft used the FUMB26Tunis.obj without pole and named it FUMO391.obj. So it looks similar to the RWR, but it will work as a Radar. You can test it with the included SingleMission.

rowi58

[VonHelsching]

Hi Rowi,

Thanks for your efforts. You are close to fixing one of the worst SHIII bugs for me, since Typ XXI is my favoured Uboat. And I say close, since Ubi research didn't get that detail right.

In reality, on top of the snorkel, there wasn't a radar, but a radar warning receiver. I don't know which type, but a clone of the latest available would be fine as a compromise. Is it too much work to make this finally right?

One caveat for your fix is that the FuMO-391 will be always on, thus attracting too many planes, in an already dangerous period. Don't get me wrong, though. Your fix is great. But if you could make that last step...

Von

[Cdre Gibs]

it is the original antenna of the FuMO 391 as Ubisoft has put into the Sensors.dat (extract all and take a look at the FUMO391.obj). Ubisoft used the FUMB26Tunis.obj without pole and named it FUMO391.obj. So it looks similar to the RWR, but it will work as a Radar. You can test it with the included SingleMission.

rowi58

I'll say it again, the Anttena you have used is NOT a Radar Array Anttena, its a RWR Anttena. Just because Ubi used it as a Radar Anttena does not make it correct, hell Ubi cant organise a pissup in a brewy with a fist full of $100.00 so how do you expect them to get something like this correct. And yes I extracted the sensor dat ages ago and had a look at this issue, so I'm well aware of what you have done, and its incorrect as far as 2 things.
1) You placed the radar atop the Snorkel - never happend.
2) You used for said radar an RWR Anttena.

FIX- Leave anttena where it is. Change it to what it should be, that being an RWR Unit. Next find the correct Fumo391 Anttena, (I have looked for 1 and I never found 1), use the original Fumo391 Anttena Spec's (if you can find 1) to make a new 3D model for the Fumo391 Anttena and use that on its own mast on the conning tower. Then you'd be correct.

This is just 1 of the reasons I have not released the sensor fix I had started to do for the TypeXXI, could never find the correct 391 Anttena Spec's any damn where to use to make a 3D model. You may have better luck than I in finding it.

[VonHelsching]

I have also searched extensively for a 391 antenna to see how it looks like. It was used very late in the war and there is limited information about it. I think that what we need here is a compromise between depicting historical accuracy and the game's features, regarding the Type XXI capabilities.

Right now we have nothing in our games. Apart from Rowi's fix. And since we have no info / pics about the 391, no one can tell it's wrong, whatever we put there. So, I'm not really interested how it looks like, as long as it has a basic Radar Warning Receiver functionality on top of the snorkel. Since Rowi achieved functionality of a radar, I think we're pretty close to a final solution / compromise.

[JScones]

I have also searched extensively for a 391 antenna to see how it looks like.
According to "U-boats, History, Development and Equipment", the FuMO-391 Lessing used the runddipol antenna atop the schnorchel. Piccy here...

http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-photo.shtml?uniqky=2005914216133225 (it's actually the accompanying picture from the same book).

Means nothing to me - but posted in case it helps VH...

[Hartmann]

Nice !! a very important fix for the 21 submarine

i think that is very accurate..

another interesting photo

http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/11/images_uboot_xxi/detail_uxxi_3318b.jpg

[VonHelsching]

I have also searched extensively for a 391 antenna to see how it looks like. According to "U-boats, History, Development and Equipment", the FuMO-391 Lessing used the runddipol antenna atop the schnorchel. Piccy here...

http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-photo.shtml?uniqky=2005914216133225 (it's actually the accompanying picture from the same book).

Means nothing to me - but posted in case it helps VH...

Thanks JS,

I wasn't aware on that. In any case there is more information on the web for RWRs on top of snorkels than radars. And they were not limited to XXIs, but other types of Uboats. It is true that these devices (probably versions of FuMB Athos, Leros and Bali), were used very late in the war (at least on top of snorkels, that is), and most were superceeded by Allied radar developments quickly.

Back to SHII: As a genuine XXI fanboy, my point here about Rowi's Fix is that if he managed to put functionality on a device on top of the snorkel, let it be an RWR, rather than a radar.

Von

[JScones]

VH, just PMed you some further links. If they're of use, you may like to post them here?

Even if totally unrelated, I like the snorkel photos here (http://www.uboatnet.de/Technik/Schnorchel.htm) (look at page 10 - a Bali Runddipol on U-2518, an XXI) and thought I'd share them for others.

[Txema]

First of all, I want to congratulate rowi58 on his excellent work to fix the FuMO-391 radar for the type-XXI U-boat. And thanks for sharing it !!!

After having read the post by JScones, it seems that the fix provided by rowi58 is almost perfect.


According to "U-boats, History, Development and Equipment", the FuMO-391 Lessing used the runddipol antenna atop the schnorchel. Piccy here...

http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-photo...05914216133225 (http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-photo.shtml?uniqky=2005914216133225) (it's actually the accompanying picture from the same book).



It is very difficult to find information on the FuMo-391 radar, and the fix provided by rowi58 matches almost perfectly the data found in the reference provided by JScones. (and the data published in http://www.uboataces.com/radar.shtml)

However I have found additional details on the FuMO-391 radar on the book "The U-boat. The evolution and technical history of German submarines" by Eberhard Rossler:

"At the end of the war, two items of active detection equipment that could be used at periscope depth were still in the test stage. These were the German 9cm FuMO84 "Berlin II", which had a stern emitter in a presure-tight casing on an extensible mast, and the active surveillance apparatus for use against the aircraft, FuMO391 "Lessing" (2.4m wavelength) with an extensible vertical aerial. These were intended for new U-boats from the summer of 1945"

This reference confirms that the FuMO-391 was developed to be used also while at periscope depth (and therefore the top of the Schnorchel seems a feasible and good place to install it). However this last reference states also that the FuMO-391 was still in the test stage at the end of the war.

In any case, taking into account the two references available, it seems that the mod-fix developed by rowi58 is a good fix for the bug present in SH3 with the FuMO-391 radar. In my opinion this fix should be included in the major mods that feature the type-XXI U-boat.

Grey Wolves X modders: can you include this fix in your mod??


Txema

[JScones]

If it helps, here's the full extract from "U-boats, History, Development and Equipment" by David Miller:

FuMO-391 Lessing
The air warning set, FuM0-391 Lessing, was developed for use in the Type XXI, where it used the "runddipol" antenna atop the schnorchel. Lessing indicated the presence of an aircraft but not its height or bearing. Range on a surfaced U-boat was given as approximately 10,900yd (10,000m) against low-flying aircraft and approximately 18 miles (30km) against aircraft flying at 6,560ft (2,000m). It could also be used when the U-boat was schnorchelling, but the range was much less: approximately 13,200yd (12,070m) for an aircraft at 3,300ft (1,000m).

Also from the same book, XXI Sensor placement diagramme (http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/tmp/XXI.jpg).

And schnorchel/runddipol closeup (http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/tmp/runddipolcloseup.jpg)

***Let me stress again that this all means nothing to me - hopefully it means something to all you guys and helps you all out.

[Hartmann]

Thanks for the information and the prints ,JScones :up:

it´s nice know more about the first true submarines.

[Mast]

I remember a post awhile back about someone trying to get the radar mast to come up and work. Can't remember any more but someone was trying to see if it was possible. Damn...wish I could remember more. :nope:

Mast

[Hartmann]

I think that could be this thread

It was about raise the radio antenna, the round aerial thing that is always stuck down in the tower

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94718&highlight=antenna

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/Observer723/sh32006-06-1823-47-33-84.jpg

[Mast]

Mmm...maybe but not sure. I remember that somebody was trying to get the radar mast up. You may be right though, since I can't remember.

Mast

[jaxa]

Wrong radar antennas position (except of FuMO 29 Gema) is one of the biggest SH3 bugs for me. Somebody tried to fix this, but probably with no result (I didn't see any news about it).

[Pablo]

Hi!

For those who are wondering, a "runddipol" is a circular dipole antenna. These can be very good for receiving radio signals from all directions - as one would hope for a radar warning receiver... :)

Pablo

[WolfyBrandon]

I think that could be this thread

It was about raise the radio antenna, the round aerial thing that is always stuck down in the tower

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94718&highlight=antenna


Sorry to change the subject, but does anyone plan to finish and release that fix? Would be nice.

Wolfy

[GT182]

BTW, where did Observer go off to? He was working on it but never got back to let us know what happened or if he got it to work.

[Ducimus]

Wrong radar antennas position (except of FuMO 29 Gema) is one of the biggest SH3 bugs for me. Somebody tried to fix this, but probably with no result (I didn't see any news about it).

QFE.

Makes the radar bloody useless , because when you need it most (bad weather iwth poor visiblity), the waves keep hitting the front of the conning tower, shutting the radar off. Nobdy's fixed it, and nobody probably ever will.

[DarkFolle]

so? what do we have to do? dwnload it or not? will it work or not?

[Redwine]

so? what do we have to do? dwnload it or not? will it work or not?

I am confused too... :)

[Kurt Lange]

Rowi, is your FuMO-391 fix still available ? I've been to the Filefront link in your first post, but its not working.

Thanks for any help.

[A6Intruder]

Rowi, is your FuMO-391 fix still available ? I've been to the Filefront link in your first post, but its not working.

Thanks for any help.

Find it here:
http://hosted.filefront.com/UffzRohledder/
Kind regards:up:

[Kurt Lange]

Thank you, A6. :)

Lots of other good stuff there too, including Fubars XXI skin. I hope you don't mind if I make your Filefront link known to others at Wolves At War. With the WaW3 campaign now in September 1944, there will be a few more players taking command of the XXI, and having the same problems as myself. I can host them myself if you prefer that.

Thanks again, very much appreciated. :up:

[A6Intruder]

Thank you, A6. :)

Lots of other good stuff there too, including Fubars XXI skin. I hope you don't mind if I make your Filefront link known to others at Wolves At War. With the WaW3 campaign now in September 1944, there will be a few more players taking command of the XXI, and having the same problems as myself. I can host them myself if you prefer that.

Thanks again, very much appreciated. :up:

You are welcome!
Kind regards:up: