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Editor: Neal Stevens
December 20, 1998
Dear Sir:
I am a submarine enthusiast and enjoy playing simulation games. I purchased Fast Attack (same version as you have) in the bargain bin at Best Buy for $5.00!!!!! I too have experienced problems with the program crashing, but I'm not sure it is due to time compression every time but that very well may explain some of the problems I've been having. I have found that my screen saver also caused problems with running Fast Attack. From talking to others that have other Sierra Games, you may want to turn off any antivirus software you may have running in the background. McAfee antivirus with screenscan is one that comes to mind. I turn both off to play and it seems to help.
As far as your assessment of the graphics and realism of the game I couldn't agree with you more. I personally know a few WW2 sub vets and have some experience on a Tench class submarine, SS-481 USS Requin, here in Pittsburgh, Pa. as a tour guide. I don't know the address, but they do have a limited web page.
Thanks for the patches and information contained on your site. I will check back frequently for updates. Please feel free to write back regarding anything in this letter. As I am careful about opening mail from unfamiliar sources please place something regarding submarines or Fast Attack in the subject title.
Sincerely,
Dave Gerster
Fast Attack: The Lost Classic. I feel sorry for the guys who programmed it. Such a great sim, so close to perfection, and no support from Sierra. Alas!
December 19, 1998
I saw an artical in the New London Day in CT and decided to look up SUBSIM Review. I'm currently in the Navy stationed at the Naval Base in Groton, Connecticut. Currently I teach submarine school to new sailors, but before that I was stationed on one of the first flight 688 attack subs. The name of the boat was the City of Corpus Christi (SSN 705). I am a submarine enthusiast, and currently have three different sub games along with submarine memorabilia since I have been in the Navy. I enjoyed looking at your web site and soon as I am proficient at Jane's 688I game I will join the online war.
Paul
December 12, 1998
Hi there
I am into flight sims (mostly MS Flight Sim98 & Combat version). Are there any new good Subsims that have similar good 3D graphics that exploit the latest 3D video cards? What is the best Windows95/98 subsim?
Philip Kelly
Hi Philip. No subsim as of yet takes advantage of Win 98 or 3D graphics potential. It is rumored that Fighting Steel will use the 3D funtions, and also the distant Silent Hunter II. The best all around subsim is considered by many to be Silent Hunter, with Fast Attack and Jane's 688(I)vying for best nukie subsim. Of course, the first two will run under Win95 but as DOS programs.
December 10, 1998
Wow, what a great site! Thank you so much for the objective and comprehensive info on all of the subsims available today. I have a question that harks back to yesteryear, however. Due to the fact that I have not owned a pc in close to 5 years now, I have fallen out of touch with the subsim world. I am looking forward to buying a pc in the next few months, and I plan on trying out all of the new-fangled programs like 688(I) and CAOD. In addition to these new games though, I would like another crack at the first subsim I ever played... Red Storm Rising. This subsim owned my soul for a year in 1990, until I had to give it back to the person I had borrowed it from. I have never seen it since. It's been 8 years and I still have a craving to play that game! I went out and bought 688 Attack Sub shortly after, but I found it sorely lacking (I found it almost impossible to evade enemy torpedoes).
Matt Horgan
Try visiting the E-bay website and doing a search for submarine in the computer games section. I haven't heard anything further from the prospective RSR2 camp. I will post a bulletin if I do.
December 7, 1998
Neal
I'm an avid SH player for something around a year. Only recently active on the net. can"t believe all the stuff on subs and "the game" out there. The wish list covers all I've thought of plus more. Hope to see it in the game one day. I draw the line at actually being killed during a fatal depth charging though.
Ed Mcdowell
November 13, 1998
Hi,
I am new to all this sub sims and have just started looking for a good sim. I looked a lot on the web for info and would like to thank you for your site. Your site is the only review site I could find that could provide me with a good overview of the sim situation right now from the point of view of someone who has no idea what is going on. Thanks, your site was the end of my surfing on this topic, such good info.
One question I still do not have answered on Silent Hunter is can you save the game at any time during play. This is very important to me. I know its such a basic question but I cant take it for granted and cant find the answer. Im sure you can help me there?
Thanks
Dave
You can save when you wish with one exception--you cannot save once you have engaged the enemy.
November 13, 1998
Neal,
Excellent site!
I was wondering....I'm looking for an excellent WW2 sim and am looking forward to SH2. I'm seeking your guidence, O SUBSIM guru! Is SH such a classic that I shouldn't miss it even now after it has been out for so long or should I just wait for SH2? I'm concerned about buying a sim that will be "outdated" and shelved when it's much better sequel comes out in a few monthes. If I buy SH, it would be the Commander's Edition. BTW- I own both 688i and Fast Attack. Fast Attack was very fun and has better action scenes, but 688i reeks realism!
Thanks for any feedback and your time,
Jeff Kiess
Silent Hunter is so good and graphically rich that it will take one hell of a program to render it obsolete. Buy the Commander's Edition, and enjoy!
November 10, 1998
Hi there at the Subsim Review,
as I try to collect Subsims, I make my decissions on your page. So I bought at auction page "ebay" a single CD called "Silent Steel Special edition". Now I find out that I can play it to the end because the game was made of 4 CD's. But they are not available here in Germany.
Can you help me to get them?
Greetings from Germany.
Jochen
You're best bet is to keep an eye on E-bay and try to get a complete set. Also, post a request to buy Silent Steel on the Radio Room forum.
November 1, 1998
Ok Neal...
1baddude here.. I think you remember me. Just wondering when we get to see Von Kreig on the water again. Iron Wolves is a great Sub Sim. To me there is no other game and I have tried them all. I have 688I collecting dust next to me now. Its about battling people and playing out strategies to be the best on the water. Its created a family of folks that just keeps growing. We had our first event where people came from around the country to get together, Discuss the game,have a few brews and a great time. We toured a destroyer and a W.W.II submarine. How many games ..(and I know there are a lot of 688I clubs) plan a yearly reunion. I am no kid anymore. I am almost 40 and I am in it for a great time. Be sink'n yea later Neal..Or Von Kreig as we know yea
1baddude
October 27, 1998
Dear Neal,
This message is just to say thank you for your information! I wrote you some months ago asking the differencies between CAOD and SH. I had both of them from several months. I often open your site to see the updates and I'm very happy to see that there are people that like submarine. As you know, it's very hard to find people that like submarine because it's not a common "hobby"; it's difficult to find books, movies and any other information because there is no market and few people are interested. But simulations are a mix of these things! They are history, movies, action, culture, human experiences: if you ask me the reason I like submarine I have no answer, I only can say they are great boats! I liked them since when I was child, but now I'm 26 yars old: I like the boat, the tactics, the technology employed, the history but I discovered the man and, of course, I didn't know this aspect when I was younger. In "Das boot" you can see this: for example did you ever notice the face of the captain, while the submarine drops (and they are not able to stop it), when they are trying to force the Straits of Gibraltar?. Jurgen Prochnow is a great actor (I don't know why he hasn't become famous!), he rapresents the despire in that scene and everyone is, sometimes in his life, despired. And the force of character of the crew when they work to surface again! Therefore, thank you to contribute to keep this subject alive.
Now I give you a pice of news (probably you already know): Michael Douglas will be the captain of an u-boot in a new movie: "U-571" should be the title. The movie is filmed here in Italy and in Malta, I know they have rebuilt a complete German u-boot.
I'm waiting for Silent Hunter II and 688(I) Gold, I hope we'll have soon new information about.
Alessandro Paoletti
October 11, 1998
Hello.
Your homepage knows well. :-) The other day, your HP was found in TopPage of Simulation Headquarters. (http://www.simhq.com/) It is remarkable. :) 688 (I) submariner of Japan decreased. We look forward to 688i Add-On Disk or, 688i Version2. I carry your homepage to my Link. Thank you.
I'm little speak English. Permit, although difficult to read with the strange sentence. :-)
Webmaster: Mitsuhide Mori
Thank you for the good words. Always happy to hear from other submarine players!
October 6, 1998
Howdy...
Great website. I'm thankful somebody is keeping track of all this substuff so I can work on having fun blowing up ships. I bought Silent Hunter last Winter and "dove" right into subsims. I'm still playing that one. I also own Janes 688i and Sierra's Fast Attack and like all of them. After my first subsim I went nutzoid at the local library and checked out some great reads about Subs in action. O'Kanes books are especially great... puts you right in the middle of WWII. I'm wondering if you can add another page listing great books to read about the real subs in WWII and other wars. Maybe add another section there about Clancy novels or other fictional works with subs in them. Some of that stuff is great too.
Great job!
Tom Lawnsby
Thanks a ton for the great letter. You should check my bibliography page at http://www.brazosport.cc.tx.us/~nstevens/subs.html and also Ron Martini's Submarine Book Store. You can get great books at the lowest prices, delivered to your door in a couple of days. I get about one a month from him.
September 29, 1998
I dunno about any sims outside of SH-CE, but you put some thought into your editorial and it was great. I have wondered if you are offshore of Nagasaki or Hiroshima on 8/9/45 and 8/3/45 if you see the atomic bombs. (Would be neat historical/realism touch to turn the screen white and then smoke and fire the rest of the day.)
Keep on keep'n on.
Derek
Now that would be realism! But I'm afraid Japanese players would be offended. They don't have the same opinion of the bombing as we. To them, the bomb represents a gruesome experiment carried out on women and children not directly involved in the war. I doubt we'll ever see something like you suggested. Thanks for the message!
September 10, 1998
One major flaw I found with 688I (an otherwise MASTERFUL sim!) was the weak campaign structure. WHAT campaign? All it was was the scenarios strung together in order.
In the sims I buy, high on my wish list is a campaign structure that is at least random, if not dynamic. 688I seemed to lack that entirely, unless I'm mistaken. If you know of some fix or patch that suddenly includes a better campaign structure, be sure and let me know!
Alan Tetkoskie
Jane's 688(I)'s lack of a dynamic campaign was a great source of disappointment to many veteran sim players. The producers were aware of the interest in a dynamic/random mission generator but dismissed it: "We have not decided to do a dynamic campaign in 688, it is a huge sink for play balance, and in my opinion the missions presented are not well tuned. Yes they are replayable, and that is a big advantage. They are, again in my opinion, not as fun, they seem mechanical. I know I differ from a lot of players on this subject...." (Paul Grace).
A "huge sink for play balance?" A good sim but they missed the mark by excluding a dynamic mission generator. Even though they knew players wanted it. Hmmmm....
September 6, 1998
Neal,
Thanks for responding to my inquiry.
I have been working on Silent Hunter for a few days and discovered one of my Dad's submarines in the rulebook. What a great way to enjoy history. I enjoyed the videos in Silent Hunter. I did not expect my 11 year old son to take interest in SH, but now I cannot get him off the "game". He thought the compression function affected only his little submarine world while everyone else slept. He has had several rude awakenings!
Your website and associated links have given me many hours of joy. Thank you.
Christian
Really glad your son is having fun with Silent Hunter. Quick, before his interest wanes, get over to a used book store and get him a copy of Capt. Herbert A. Werner's "Iron Coffins" and Edwyn Gray's "Submarine Warriors".
August 25, 1998
Neal,
I just ran across your website and was happy to hear that Fast Attack crashed on someone else. I was about to toss it off my 24 story apt. balcony. I love Fast Attack (gold) and was very unhappy when it would crash (like you said), 1 out of 3 times. I have made a boot disk and it now seems the odd time out when it crashes.
The reason I bought Fast Attack was becuse I could not get SSN21-Seawolf or Aces of the Deep to run on my computer. I still cannot get either game to run on my computer, but thankfully I have my Fast Attack to rely on. AOD I can get to the opening scene and then it quits. SSN21 wont let me configure the sound. Any suggestions you may have on either game that may not be in the documentation? My next step (after I've mastered F.A.) is to get Silent Hunter I,II.
Anyway, thanks for all the great information you have on your website. It was just what I was looking for.
Brandon
Yes, Fast Attack suffers from some uncertain malady that causes program instability. One of the designers confessed that Win 95's Plug and Play system has something to do with it. FA was almost finished when Win 95 came out. Avail yourself of the Fast Attack troubleshooting tips in the TACTICS & TIPS section. Note the remarks about using time compression.
August 19, 1998
HEY!
I used to play "Red Dawn" on an old MSX machine, dating back to 1984. The game was included in a games collection, so I don't have a picture of the box or anything. Sorry about that. I don't know if it was a "big" or revolutionary sim when it was released, and I don't know if the sim is worth to mention in your history section. In fact, I don't know how old the sim is, either. "The Games Collection" is from 1988, but "Red Dawn" may be older. Mabey someone else knows more about it, if we just ask in the newsgroup. But I have some words from the manual, so you may have an idea what it's all about:
RED DAWN is a simulation of the operation and deployment of WWII class submarines.In the game you'll be wanted to carry out the assignments printed in the log.Set course to the estimated point of interception, set out to sea at right speed to make the arrival time. Once on the scene you go to Battle Stations and engage the enemy at your discretion. Sometimes secret agents or documents need to be ferried. Usually from a given coordinate to one of the safe harbours
And then some personal inputs:
The game may be looked at as realistic in its time, but now (naturally) it is very simply compared to modern subsims. To the left of the screen, you always see the periscope. To the right, you can change which station you want (the weapon station, the log, the engine room, the map and the damage report). So if you was going to kill a ship, you had to just see the ship in the periscope, and try to calculate the impact point.
Magne Tjørhom
August 18, 1998
Hi,
I've really enjoyed your site and info on the 688(I). If you do get some decent contact with the Janes people, could you consider mentioning the fact that the program cannot be run on some systems without video modifications -- which for many of us, are pretty difficult to make for the game and then to restore for the rest of our stuff. I'm running an STB Velocity 128 and get the fabled graphics error.
Thanks for your consideration and good luck with the campaign!
Brian
Thanks. And the guys I spoke with at Sonalysts said a patch was on its way that would rectify that problem.
August 7, 1998
Hi Neal,
A couple of comments on the AOD review. The original AOD (which I played for a couple of years before getting the Command version) doesn't have the sound problem you mentioned (though, on mine at least, once you started the phonograph, you couldn't turn it off). The Type XXI sub and Mediterranean Theatre was_available as an update disk (Sierra dropped it when they released the Command version); for anyone with the original DOS version of AOD, this is available as a patch (to my knowledge neither supported nor condoned by Sierra) from www.abcs.com/gestapo/.
Unfortunately I could never get my old version of AOD to run once I upgraded my system to 64 meg RAM. It ran fine with 32 meg, but dumped me back to the prompt with "insufficient memory" messages when I tried running it with 64meg. I kept raising hell at Sierra about their tech help, or lack thereof, and finally caught the ear of one of their "suits" on Compuserve; a couple of weeks later I got a free copy of the Command version plus a copy of the Aces Collection.
Take care,
Graham
I like your style!
August 5, 1998
Mr. Stevens:
I made a comment when I answered your survey that I was suprised you hadn't reviewed Red Storm Rising. After reading more of your reviews, I see why there's no review in the main line part of your page. I also see that you DID review it, and your comments match my opinion quite nicely.
However, I thought you might want to know that there IS a bug in RSR (though I'm not sure all releases of it). It has problems with sound on "fast" computers. "Fast" by the definition of this bug can be (in my experience) as slow as 80486DX2/66 Might be slower too, but the next step lower I could test it on was an 80386SX/16, which it worked perfectly on. There is, however, the Pentium patch (Author's note: available in the PATCHES & MISSIONS section) which fixes the problem. And fixes it very well. I had hangs on my 80486DX2/66 and applied the patch and it worked fine from then on. I've now got it running Pentium/166 under Win95, still with no problems. It did help, though, under Windows 95 to turn on the DOS switch to fully isolate the DOS session (keep DOS from detecting Windows).
Bill
August 4, 1998
Neal,
I've just come across your web page. Very well done. Your review of Iron Wolves was in-depth, especially given the fact that you were not a regular of the game. It would have been easy to bash the game if you were expecting IW to be like other sub sim games on the market. IW's attraction lies in the fact that you are pitted against human opponents. Since the beta days, the IW players have developed a real user community complete with an official players group (The WolfPack), scheduled wars, individual player web pages, and even have a get-together scheduled for the Fall of '98. I say you'd be hard pressed to find that level of involvement in any other game. There have been some changes made to IW since your review which make it easier to track opponents (left click and drag on the bridge view) and the addition of islands equipped with Shore Batteries (definite mixed reviews on that!). Plus there is a web page where scores are posted for bragging rights. The user community has been able to work closely with the developers to suggest and make changes for the good of the game. In short, I would encourage you and others to take a look and go for a test drive. I think you'll like what you see!
PS - Thanks for 'immortalizing' me on the sub screen shot! heh heh.
Redwolf
Von Krieg will return to the Iron Wolves world for future evaluations. And I'll have you in my crosshairs again, so achtung!
July 28, 1998
I bought Tom Clancy's SSN before I bought 688(I) and I loved it and still enjoy playing it. It got me introduced into the world of submarines, the boats, the ships, and the weapons. Its not very realistic, but it doesn't mean its not enjoyable.
Nolan Wehr
For a dedicated sim player, it was light fare. But as you put it, since it introduced you the elements of submarine combat, well, in that case I agree, it's a success. Glad to hear something good about it.
July 23, 1998
I enjoy your site and have a link to it from my WWII page at The Rook's Nook as a part of my site. I just read your Wolfpack evaluation and I concur. I have played it for years along with Silent Service I & II and Aces of the Deep. I always enjoyed Wolfpack because of the ability to command a convoy or a wolf pack. Like you I hope they update the game as even the most current edition I bought on CD was still not geared for Windows 95 nor did I notice much difference in the graphics. Let's hope enough people indicate an interest that they will re-work it for current technology. Keep up the good work. You have a top notch site!
Chip Luster
Thanks! Glad to hear from an old Wolfpack player. I believe your wish will come true next summer with Silent Hunter II. If they do it right, as they did with SH1, we'll soon be staking out the mid Atlantic online.
July 12, 1998
Hello Neal,
I just found your website today. Finally, folks with a passion as great as mine about submarines! I've always had an interest in naval history (served in the Navy during the Vietnam war) but had never looked into submarine combat much until about two years ago. Found an old copy of Silent Service II and I've been engrossed with the Silent Service ever since. Now with Silent Hunter and 688/I Hunter Killer I have a hard time tearing myself away from the computer.
Besides the sims, I've devoured every book I could find on submarine combat (especially in the Pacific) during WW II. I too have a soft spot and untold admiration for the men that served during those times. Its nice to know that they will never be forgotten. Look forward to your comments and updates on your website. Keep up the good work.
Sincerely,
Gary S. Habecker-ex RM3 U.S.N.
I know where you're at, Gary. My interest in submarine warfare has been with me since I was in grade school. Always enjoyed reading stories about WWI and WWII submarines and U-boats. You may want to check out Ron Martini's Submarine Book Store and see if there's anything there that interests you.
July 2, 1998
Hello,
This is my first visit to your website, it's great!!! I have not been on the internet very long, I am a sub nut. It's my hobby, I read history books on subs, build models of subs, and just earned my wings on Janes 688(I) sim. I have loved subs since I was 10 years old, I am 28 and the passion is still just as strong. I have the up most respect for there crews and the men of the silent service. I am going to start a home page to share my passion and fun for subs with my friends. Do you mine if a make a link to your site on my page thank you.
Robert Putman
That would be great. Thanks, Robert.
July 1, 1998
Greetings,
I enjoyed your updated review of Fast Attack so much that I bought a copy at my local Toys R' Us. I had previously given up on that sim because of its instability, the new version has so far run A-OK under Windows 95.
Bill Nichols
Keep those fingers crossed.
June 19, 1998
Hi!
Just found your site through a mention at simhq. I like your reviews, but I was pretty puzzled by your treatment of Harpoon 97. For instance, I seem to recall that you can filter out the messages you get from the assistant, so the routine stuff would not be in your face. And you don't mention at all the vast number of platforms, the presence of land-based forces or that the focus of the game is on recreating what goes on at the CIC level. The micromanagement you deal with is that which the CIC folks handle, and the realtime aspect ensures that making the right decision is not a trivial task.
Anyway, just a thought. You should at least mention that the original code was fixed from the earlier releases, and greatly extended with the EC2000 battleset, to increase functionality. It's no longer a warmed over version of the original, anyway.
J.D. Pipes
Thanks for the message. You're right, I didn't use the filters option very much. To be honest, I felt that the filters option was the lower difficulty setting option, and so I set out to play the sim at the highest level of realism, despite the multitude of incoming messages. And though the game didn't receive a really high rating, I didn't try to "blast" it out of the water. I did attempt to reflect how much enjoyment, gameplay, and satisfaction I got out of it. I hope no one will be turned off to the game if they enjoy similar games. But the graphics and sounds were really old and static--if I gave it a higher rating, some people would be disappointed when they tried it.
And would I catch hell then! (see next message)
June 19, 1998
Hey Neal!
I felt I should chime in my response to your latest review of Harpoon 97. I wasn't that crazy about it either. I had chatted with a few different people who said that the Harpoon series ruled, especially the previous version which is supposedly used for actual naval training. Being spoiled by my favorite subsims, I wasn't impressed either. However... Have you ever taken a look at the Great Naval Battles series by SSI? I think you'll get a slightly bigger kick out of this series. There's four of them all together (With a bonus #5 called Demise Of The Dreadnaughts if you buy the entire set together), and as you might assume, the series progresses technologically with each new disk, so starting and ending with Great Naval Battles IV would probably give you the most enjoyment. I had this game on my hard drive for months and got a lot of enjoyment out of it. Like Harpoon, it's a sim that puts you in full control of a fleet, but there is some animation, some actual controls, some killer background music, and various screens and views that eliminate that board game feel you mentioned in your review. You can still pick it up in the budget bins at CompUSA for around $10.00.
Have a great day Neal, and thanks for all of your reviews!
Kevin
Well, this may sound hard to believe but I am currently putting GNB IV "Burning Steel 1939-1942" through the SUBSIM Reviews evaluation track. Don't great minds think alike! You're contrast of GNB IV and Harpoon 97 is right on the money, IMO. Too much board and not enough buttons in Harpoon.
June 17, 1998
Neal,
Just wanted to say thank you for the hard work and great commentary about the subsims. I am somewhat new, yet addicted to 688(I). I am a member of the Marauders virtual sub fleet. I also have Tom Clancy's SSN, Fast Attack, enjoyed the review, and Aces of the Deep. AOD I have yet to get up and running - sound drivers I think. Anyways, keep up the good work, I visit here often.
Greg Cimmarrusti
P.S. Looking forward to the 688(I) upgrade.
I appreciate your message, Greg. Sounds like your subsim experience rivals mine. Glad to hear you're undaunted by the AOD quirks. You'll like it once you get it going. Check the TACTICS & TIPS section on AOD. Hope it helps!
June 10, 1998
Hallo Neal!
What a great page you´ve set up. Gosh, I haven't seen something like that since... Well, I do not know.
However, I read your rewiev of Command:Aces Of The Deep, and decided that I just have to buy that game. I got the older version, AOD, and thought that this one was the best until now... I´ve played trough old AOD three times (its getting fast and easy nowadays) as kapitan Heinrich Lümmel and Friedrich Hebbel. Both times, I was on top after the first five missions (Difficulty 75%).
Best Regards
Patrik
WEBSITE
Thanks, Patrik. Grab a copy of the Aces Collection. Sierra and Scott Hirschman have told me that the Command version of Aces of the Deep are on it. Now, man that deck gun, sailor!
June 7, 1998
Hi,
I've looked over your site, and have found it very interesting. I cut my computer gaming teeth on an early sub game (hardly a 'sim') about 10 years ago, but have really never had much time for games since.
After reading your site, I expect I'll go out and pick up a copy of 688(I), and start hunting for a copy of Silent Service, since I guess Aces of the Deep is long gone by now. One aspect of multi player play doesn't seem to get much mention online. Do you think there would be much interest in multiple players crewing the same ship (er, boat)? One would monitor sonar, one the engine room, one would be in command, etc. With the level of detail you mention that you would like to see in the 'subsim 2000' I think there would be enough to do for each player. Or do you think it would be a yawner for everybody 'cept the guy who got to look out the periscope?
What do you think?
Take Care,
Tom Sweeting
Hi Tom,
Glad to hear from you. What was that non-sim sub game you were referring to? I'm curious...
I think you can still get the Command Aces of the Deep in the Aces Collection. It comes with several older flight sims, but the subsim alone would be worth it. It really was alot of fun. Try this link for ordering info: TURBO GUIDE
If that doesn't work, get back with me. As for Silent Service, now that's the one you may not find. It's pretty old. If you still want it, get back to me; I can put it on the web site and you can download it.
I have heard people mention the interesting concept you brought up; where different gamers link online and man different stations of the same sub. I'm interested myself, but no one knows how the approach will fare, since, as you pointed out, the torpedo technician and the radio tech may not like waiting around for the cyberskipper to act. Then again, if everyone agrees to rotate stations, it might fly....
I think we'll see it in a future sim someday.
Thanks for the message. See you in the Radio Room!
May 14, 1998
Neal:
I've bookmarked your SubSim reviews page and have been enjoying reading your comments on the various subsims. I'm a wannabe bubblehead from way back to the first time I read Edward Beach's Run Silent, Run Deep . How about a review of SUBWAR 2050 by MicroProse?
Also, wanted to let you know that, partly based on your recommendation and partly because I have the old Aces of the Deep for DOS, I ordered Command:Aces of the Deep from the CD ROM Shop, but they were never able to get me a copy, and they said their distributor told them they wouldn't be able to get any more. The game (even in Win 95 incarnation) is out of print. Woulda know where a copy might be found?
Anyway, to continue, I ordered a copy of Silent Hunter Commander's Edition based on your review and my playing the demo. Hope it's as good as it looks! I'll also continue in what has become a mission--to get the old Aces of the Deep to work (successfully and crash-free) on my computer.
Run Silent, Run Deep,
Brian Garner
Hey Brian,
Great to hear from you, and enjoyed your message. Like you, I'm a big sub captain in my imagination, which is good enough. As for Command Aces, I'm told by the web lady at Sierra's board that the Aces collection has the Command version of Aces of the Deep, but I have my doubts. I would certainly open it in the store after I bought it to verify so in case it's the DOS Aces, I could get an instant refund.
Otherwise, check my links page for Starvector and Chips & Bits. They may have it. Or post a message on the Radio Room BBS that you want to buy a used copy. It's a great game. I'm sure you'll like Silent Hunter. The graphics were ahead of their time.
As for Subwar2050, I did consider reviewing it but my budget is limited. It may be a really good game, but it's not really what I consider a submarine simulation. More like a Star Wars game in an underwater setting.
See you in the Radio Room!
May 8, 1998
Hello :)
Just stumbled across your pages, and I want to say THANKS! Finding people who share my addiction for WW2 diesel sub combat sims isn't exactly easy :(
Like many cybercaptains, I long for the day when a company gives us a WW2 internet multiplayer sim (both surface & sub). Iron Wolves is a good concept, but it lacks "feel". The player interaction is good, but the combat and controls are primitive.
BTW, I wonder if any company has considered making a client/server sim based around the type of business model that id software used for Quake? (i.e. anyone can set up their own server) id certainly found success with this... on any given day you can find 400-500 servers online; encourages purchase & play without costing the company a thing. Just a thought...
Regards from a devout Silent Service I fan :)
Brian
It's a great idea. Even though subsims have a narrow appeal, there might be enough of us to support it. Still, you have to remember, we like sub action because of its realism, historical aura, and strategy. First-person shooters like Quake and Doom have none of these features--just point and shoot. But if some visionary produces a subsim like you suggest, I know a couple hundred enthusiasts who would line up for it--you guys! Save me a place in line!
April 28, 1998
Neal:
Really like your sub sim page. Just started exploring.... I was hoping to find comments about Sierra's CAOD which I own in addition to Silent Hunter. By the way I agree with your rating of SH over CAOD. Back to CAOD, the game has a huge 'fatal' bug which the game save function triggers when there is alot of surface action. The sim experinces a fatal non-recoverable error. Sierra acknowledges the problem but will not fix it. They offered me two games to keep me happy once I really started to complain. However, Sierra continues to market and sell CAOD with this problem. I've even written to Sierra''s CEO regarding this.
I cannot find anywhere on the WEB someone that can substantiate or confirm this bug. Have you ever heard or of this ? The bug is only in CAOD.
Well anyway keep up the good work. I look forward to SH2.
David
I believe I encountered a bug similar to yours. In my case, it only occurred in one particular game of a career. It was close to conclusion of the war and I was stuck in the Med. There was a large convoy with a jeep carrier in my patrol area. I would get my boat in prime position, sink the carrier and evade the escorts under the convoy, then set up for a shot on a 12,000 ton tanker. Somewhere during all this, the game would either lock up or crash, I don't remember which. It did seem to be when I saved the game or the autosave kicked in. Well, to make a long story short, I wanted to finish this patrol and this career, so after numerous crashes, I called Sierra. This was back when the game was new. They listened to my story and told me to send a floppy with the saved career on it, which I did. Naturally, I never heard back from them. I've come to realize that any program of the complexity of a modern subsim is bound to have a few bugs or paradoxical inconsistencies in the program code. Some can be relatively easy to fix, hence (sorry, SeaLance) patches. Others can be deeply rooted and fixing the bug means a substantial program rewrite. Which no one will do. For you and me, the best choice is to try to play around it. If it's too big a hassle, get your money back. I can live with little problems--the major screw-ups should cost the software company, not us.
So, Neal's SUBSIM First Commandment is and has always been:
"Thou shalt not buy a game from a merchant
who will not take it back for a refund if it sucks!"
April 22, 1998
I bought Wolfpack back when it was published by Broderbund. It's a great sim, but the need to look up the "current cipher" in the manual before playing is a real nuisance. Do you know if anyone knows how to get around that? Using Norton Utilities Disk Editor function, I found where the text says "The current cipher is 00.00.00." I tried to enter numbers that would make the correct response "the," but that didn't work. Anyone else have any luck?
Please respond to the e-mail address below.
Sounds like one of those friendly pirate prevention gimmicks. My bet is you'll need to continue looking up that cipher.
April 20, 1998
Hi Neal,
I just found your Web site. I'm a devoted player of Silent Hunter. Been playing it every night for an hour or so since Dec. 97 so you know I'm hooked. Glad to hear SSI will upgrade to SH II. I'll be the first on the block to buy it. Are their any games out there that can be played from the convoy escorts point of view? My sail boat is named Compass Rose so you know where I'm coming from.
David
So far, that's the exact thing everyone's clamoring for; a sim that allows players to go head-to-head, with one commanding the convoy and escorts, and one or more silent hunters. Well, the buzz has it that SSI is developing two new sims that will allow this. The surface sim, or SKIMSIM (skimmer simulation, yes, I coined that term, just as I did with SUBSIM), will be Fighting Steel. Silent Hunter II, or Silent Hunter 98, will be the complementary sim, released later. That's the rumor, we'll see how it pans out. Keep an eye on my SIM UPDATES page for flash traffic.
April 5, 1998
Greetings,
I recently read Red Storm Rising for the eleventh time, or something like that, and after finishing it I rushed to my old 5 and a quarter discs to play the game... naturally I had faulty sectors all over.... Now, I was wondering if you know where, or how to get hold of Microprose's Red Storm Rising... It seems to be impossible to buy anywhere now. :( Since it's well over ten years old now I was hoping that you, or someone at least, could ZIP it and e-mail it to me. I would be eternally grateful if you could do that.
Hopefully, Fred
RSR is one of the few subsims I myself haven't played, along with Up Periscope and Das Boot. I'll let you know if I secure a copy. Anyone out there got a copy to loan?
April 3, 1998
Sir,
This is a fantastic page you have here. I've just spent the last hour reading
it. Thanks for taking the time to make it. It's in my book marks.
Can you tell me where I can get some more missions to download for the Jane's
688i Hunter/Killer program. I have played all the missions and campaigns
twice and am looking for some more to play.
Thanks again for a GREAT page
Jim
Seawolves has mission pack you can download from its site. I believe they are mostly for Internet multi-play, but you could check and see if they've included and good scenario-based missions. That's all I know with certainty. Another option would be to contact other 688(I) players and exchange customized missions. The big drawback to this is many players overload the battlefield with ships and don't create missions with a clear strategy and set of objectives. My ICQ# is 2379167. I could send you a couple I've created. I think they're challenging but playable.
March 29, 1998
Regarding the bit about "Torpedoes can circle back; ask Cdr. O'Kane," ain't that the sad and sorry truth - I'm surprised you knew that Tang was lost to her own fish, though. Anyways, excellent reviews, but I personally think Aces of the Deep should have gotten a 99. Other than that, gut werk, Herr Kaleu! - U-boot scholar
March 21, 1998
Neal:
Kudos on a very fine web site. I have been looking for a web site like this for a long time. I was vectored here from the Sierra Message Board. With respect to Fast Attack, I had the same problems everyone else has described. I discovered that the way to fix them was to have a LOT of memory. I originally ran it on a 486, 66 Hz with 8 Meg of memory. It has a Packard- Bell CPU. I run under DOS only. When I added an additional 16 Meg of memory, it cured the crash problem with one exception. The game will still crash when I try to download messages using the periscope about 1 out of 3 times. It will crash every time if I try to download messages using the floating wire antenna at 5 times normal time. The workaround is to download using the floating wire antenna at normal time. I have completed all of the missions and I greatly enjoyed it.
The key to handling contacts with a relatively high bearing rate change is to realize that they are close. Take the default range of 10K yards and activate the torpedo right out of the tube. Keep zeroing the bearing and altering the torpedo's course as required. You can torpedo anything with a draft of 6 feed or greater.
In my opinion, the single greatest deficiency is the minimal documentation supplied with the game. I would also love to see a random mission generator like Red Storm Rising had.
After reading your review of 688I, I think it really is time to upgrade my system!
Thanks for a great job.
George
Thanks for the well thought-out suggestions. You should be a beta tester for Sierra (someone should!). I'm going to go back and give Fast Attack another run utilizing your ideas. And when you get up to speed with 688(I), you should be a force. I'll stay out of your way.
Again, thanks!
March 20, 1998
Hi Neal,
My name is Wim Ziekman, and I am from Holland. I have been playing AoD for a few years, and then I saw on Internet your site. I like it very much! I obtained a copy of Silent Service, and I enjoy playing it. Although I am not very familiar with this game (yet), I noticed that there are many details that AoD misses when it is compared to SH. Di you know whether there will be an AoD 2? One of the things that might make this game more realistic would be the adding to the game of "milk cows", or other Axis ships that would resupply one's U-boat. Also it should be possible to have AA and deckgun activated at the same time. And how about the convoys that went to Russia? Don't you agree that a WW I subsim is still missing? Imagine WW I aircraft and Zeppelins in antisubmarine roles, and those nice 4-pipe destroyers and old battleships! Anyway, I just wanted to say I enjoyed your site very much! BTW do you know how to obtain the extra discs with more missions for SH?
Bye, Wim Ziekman
I don't know of an official AOD II, but check my subsim updates page: there is a new U-boat sim in development by SSI, Silent Hunter II. Hopefully they will include numerous realistic feature, such as the ones you mentioned. They would definitly enhance the sim experience and lengthen the playability. Check my links page for the patrol disks. You can get them through SSI and other sites.
March 18, 1998
Hello!
I'm Belgian (so, excuse my bad English), and I've a big interest in the
unterseeboote simulations.
I discovered your site today, and I wanted to say it gives a good idea
about the simulations presently on the market. I hope you will continue!
I bought, up to now, "Command Aces of the Deep" and "688(i) Hunter
Killer". Do you know about some E-mail addresses where we can ask
questions about 2nd WW subs? Or even chatting sites?
I'm also searching about sites where I can get pictures of U-boats ( I
already found www.uboat.net).
I'd like to join a "688(i) fleet" soon (I bought this game recently and
I'm still a beginner with it) Where can I have a list of existing ones,
and how can I do that?
Thanks!
U-boat
Two places stand out for answers about U-boats; U-boat net, which you know of, and Unterseebootwaffe. The biggest 688(I) fleet I know of is SeaWolves, of which I am a member--CDR Glacier, 3rd fleet, USS Topeka. Try them out and see what you think. Don't forget to give me a shout when you're ready to play. You can find hundreds of members and use ICQ to chat with them.
March 2, 1998
I really enjoyed your article "Subsims Beyond 2000". I think you should also be able to walk through the submarine, see the crew. And if there is damage they should be trying to fix it(sparks from the welding) and also you should see the water coming in to the boat. You should also be able to ask them things, like about the damage and other stuff. And when you go too deep the bolts should start to pop out.
Henrik Axelsson
You're right. Just reading your description brings vivid scenes to mind that would greatly enhance the sim experience. And thanks for the tip about the new subsim Akula: Red Hunter.
March 2, 1998
I am a retired submariner that plays 688i a LOT! Great game and very realistic. I agree with your evaluation 100%.
Ken Jones
February 28, 1998
Hi Neal,
Just a line to say you have a nice web page. I have been playing Silent Hunter since it came out. It is the best sub sim I have found. I have been through all the bugs and lockups and upgrades. The new Patrol Disk with the Scenario Editor with the special Missions is sure nice. I like to go on patrols and run at 100 to 115% realism. Start in 1942 in a Sugar boat and operate like German U Boat. I am age 61, retired running a 75mh Pentium, Up grading to 16 MB Ram was a big improvement. I was losing a lot of sound effects with 8 MB Ram. Hope some day to get a new fast PC so I can run the new Win 95 Sub Sims. Drop over some time to Silent Hunter Message board. I like to try to help the new Silent Hunter players.
Lane Goodman
I'm 38 and spent my teenage years dreaming of the day a submarine simulation would be as complete and realistic as Silent Hunter. Thanks for the message. Hopefully SH II will be multiplayer. If so, I'll see you in the water.
February 27, 1998
Did you hear about Das Boot? I don't say about movie, this is very old sub sim (may be 1991-92). I search on web but I did not find anything about this game; I have lot of questions: who is producer? you played this game?
Denis Kaplan
Yes, I've heard of it but haven't played it. As far as I know, it's out of circulation. Just for the fun of it, I would like to check it out. Maybe I'll get lucky at a garage sale someday. Anybody out there have a copy?
February 21, 1998
Hello Neal,
How's it going? Did you ever download the Silent Hunter game demo? I have about 3 times !!! The 1st time I didn't know what I was really doing. 2nd time I thought I may have done something wrong - no sound ! I downloaded it again from a different site and still no sound. DO YOU KNOW IF THE DEMO PLAYS WITH SOUND OR NOT ? My sound device I believe was configured properly.
Chris
Hi Chris,
Sorry, never tried the demo. I never have much luck with demos in general for the very reasons
you wrote--always a hassle to configure. But I'm sure you'll like Silent Hunter, so a demo
is superfluous anyway. You can get the Commander's Edition now for around $24.
February 17, 1998
Neal:
Damn right this version differs from the one I am struggling with. Nice of Sierra (or Dynamix) to let everyone know. Now I have to start harassing them for a patch for the original (Ver 1.0 on the start-up menu) that I laid out $60 for!
John Channing
Good luck. Your best best would be to buy a new version of FA at the new $14 price and use the original as a shiny coaster. Sierra doesn't have the best reputation for customer response.
February 8, 1998
Hi Neal,
I saw your post on the verion of FA. I have 1.0. I made it through the Japan campaign, but only by letting as many secondary targets go as safety would allow. I am going to write to Sierra about this "update" that was included in your version to see if I can get it. Thanks for letting me know about this.
Kelly
So far, no crashes. It's crazy to think Sierra wouldn't at least put out a simple patch for this sim!
February 1, 1998
Neal,
My father is William "Bud" Gruner, who was Commander of the SS Skate at the end of WWII, and as you probably know was a principal consultant for Silent Hunter. Given my father's wartime experiences, I have been interested in subs for many years. I bought the first two sub simulations for the Mac (Gato and Silent Hunter), both of which I enjoyed. The pity is, that although my Dad has sent me copies of Silent Hunter, I still have a Mac and have only played them at friends' houses for a short period of time. I enjoyed your review, however, and agree with it as far as my experience. The sub on the cover, SS305, is of course the Skate. The Skate had quite an interesting history. During one patrol, they came near enough to the Japanese coast to photograph Mt. Fuji through the periscope. The picture (scope reticle and all) made it into Life Magazine.
Anyway, enjoyed your web site and sub reviews. They are very thorough. I only wish I had more time (and equipment) to play some of these games. I am considering one of PC simulator programs to allow playing PC/DOS games on the Mac.
Best regards,
John Gruner
West Chester, PA
I just wrapped up a session of SH and checked my e-mail to find your message. Pass the word on to your father, we appreciate what he and the crew of Skate did for us in WWII. I enjoyed his interviews, and consider them a prinicple feature of the sim. If/when you try out the PC simulator program on your Mac, let me know how it works--I'll post your findings here for other Mac cyberskippers.
February 1, 1998
I have a friend who asked me where he could get the CD-ROM game - Silent Service II. Can you help?? Thanks in advance...
--Jerry
Check with Microprose, but I believe your best bet now is to scour the bargain bims of a Best Buy or Comp USA. Failing that, I can send you a copy on a floppy, but you have to promise to forward $10 to Microprose so I won't get sued.
January 31, 1998
I just got done reading some of your web site--boy and I thought I was into submarines. Your site is fantastic. I didn't see a spot were I could send you a note from your site, so I got your E-Mail address from the message boards, at Sierra, Not So Silent Running. Your site and its contents have answered (all) my questions regarding the differences, and some of the problems, I am encountering when playing C.A.O.D, versus Silent Hunter, sounds dropping out like the diesel engines, record player in AOD. . .
Great page, I've bookmarked it, keep up the great work.
See you on the Atlantic, U-113
Scott H.
Thanks big time for the kind words. Glad the info on site is helpful. About the e-mail link, I have now changed it to make it easier to find. You can thank yourself for that. In the future I will be adding a subsim tips section. No, it won't tell you everything about a sim or instruct you how to play it; that's part of the fun of playing a sim, learning what works and how. Rather, the tips page will point out key tactics and strategies that you might have missed that will enhance your sim experience. Look for it next month.
January 31, 1998
Neal -
Just chanced across your site . . . and really *enjoyed* my visit. Very well designed, fast response, good graphics and writing . . . (and coming from a former network TV writer-producer - that's high praise). You've inspired me to spend some time with the sub sim my son got me for Christmas . . . thanks for a well-done site !
Best -
The Ol' Wizard
Wait till my wife sees this! Thanks and thanks! Hope you enjoy the Christmas subsim. Which one was it, by the way?
January 9, 1998
Greetings,
Your web page is great! Well written and designed, yadada, yadada. Now down to business.
My first sub-sim was Silent Service II and I'm hooked. I purchased Seawolf about a month ago and enjoy it. The game seems to lack some of the realism I expected, but it's OK. Do you know any groups I could link with to discuss strategies with ? I want to master this game before going on to 688(I) HK.
Thanks for the good job on the web.
Best Regards,
Mike S.
I'm afraid I don't know any active groups who play Seawolf SSN-21. It's an older sim, and probably reigns now as shelf ballast to most who bought it. But I do agree, despite the less than perfect realsim, it was fun to play.
Enjoy Seawolf, but make plans to buy 688(I) when Jane's releases the "Gold" version.
January 2, 1998
I enjoyed the visit to your page. As I am having a problem with my AOD game, will not load or allow installation on my other computer, I am thinking of getting another.
Would you recommend 688 over all the others? Also your Silent Hunter review makes it sound like a winner. I prefer the WWII theme but if 688 being much newer, is a vastly superior piece of software (MMX) I could adjust to the less seat of the pants approach the the new subs use, with more reliance on the electronics and less on visual sightings.
Regarding the AOD failure, it appear to have begun when I upgraded my operating system to the newer WIN95 OEM version release 2 ver 4.00.111. I get an error message: assert:error: line 118 in ...\sim\simshell.cpp"c:\program\SimIN.DAT
Ever heard of this problem with AOD?
Thanks,
Steve
Thanks for the message, Steve
I have had a few small problems with CAOD, but have always managed to work around them. First, be sure you have the display set for 640x480 and 256 colors. Second, try reinstalling the program, and install the max version. This failing, you'll have to throw yourself at the mercy of Sierra's tech support (sound of fainting and falling glass!). Check my SUBSIM LINKS page for the Not-So-Silent-Running BBS.
WWII subsims and nuke subsims are almost totally dissimilar. The WWII sims relying on visual contact, using the periscope and TBT, and consequently are much easier to get the hang of and enjoy. It's a fact of history as submarine technology evolved, the nature of undersea tactics changed dramatically. With a nuke sim, you rarely use the scope. You rely on electronic equipment and passive sonar to track, identify, and target the enemy. This creates a sense of detachment for the player, and lacks the visceral appeal of lining the crosshairs on a tanker and watching it go up. But this does happen to be the face of modern submarine warfare, and the sims reflect it, 688(I) better than the rest. You have to decide if that kind of simulation experience is for you.
As for the 688(I) being a vastly superior piece of software to Aces of the Deep or Silent Hunter, no way. CAOD and SH are the cream of the crop for any genre sim. Their programming is rock solid, the graphics are very good to great, and the historical accuracy is top rate. 688(I) is of this same caliber, except for the 3D view. Here 688(I) falls on its face (check the review for details). But where 688(I) shines is its realism and technical accuracy. No one does it better.
Again, the main question is: do you want a diesel subsim where you maneuver to within 1500 yards and geometrically line up warshots, or do you want an attack subsim, where you manipulate hi tech electronics gear to produce a shooting solution and launch wire-guided torpedoes.
Me? Hell, I like 'em both!
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