Aft Starboard cable on the Sargo boat is in the wrong location - Page 2

stanger · 06-14-12, 03:45 PM

I can't be that precise with my mouse (and 3dsMax

):

Cant it be locked somehow at one end, or just positioned by entering coordinates?

Hylander_1314 · 06-14-12, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanger

I can't be that precise with my mouse (and 3dsMax

):

Cant it be locked somehow at one end, or just positioned by entering coordinates?

Not fami;iar with 3DSMax, but I think it is like GMax, and yes, you can position things by typing in the coordinates. But I am suprized it won't let you line it up with your mouse.

Well, you could always try the next best option, and use the slicing tool to slice off the attachment arm on the CT.

Next, use the slicing tool to slice the masts for the antennae, you will can then delete the starboard side, and then just mirror the port side, and attach them to the CT at the vertices, make sure to clean up any extra dots that aren't needed, and all should be well.

Was hoping to substitute the P-Class CT for the Sargo / Salmon, but it suffers from this too.

But this reminds me of when I was trying to line up the bracing wires between the wings and struts on the Halberstadt! What a chore that was!

At least you got it (the Sargo CT) to load into a program!

Hylander_1314 · 06-14-12, 04:22 PM

Also, when trying to line up things like this, and I know it's a royal pain, but try not to be at angles like your screenshot shows.

What I found to work the best when working with cables / wires, or anything thin like that, is make sure to have the model lined up perfectly on one axis at a time, and then move it to where it lines up, then go to the next axis, do the same, and the next.

You should either get it very close the first time, or be right on target. But if you work at offset angles, they can tend to frustrate you.

Also, as I don't know if 3DSMax does it, but GMax had an option, that would let you move things either by single axis, or combinations of 2 axis', and the latter always gave me fits. So if 3DS Max has that option, make sure it is off in this case, and move the cable one axis at a time. It will go much quicker, smoother, and less frustrating.

Just a though is all. Hope it helps!

stanger · 06-14-12, 04:31 PM

I can be more precise in Maya, it is much easier to use with its cleaner interface and better camera controls, but the final result - after importing back to s3d - was a 3d model much smaller, like 2 times smaller. So I decided to use 3ds max for two main reasons: there is skwasjer tutorial on how to import\export to 3dsMax, and s3d itself seems optimized for 3dsmax (its the only program that import\display the model correctly). But I am total noob at this, so I spent hours just looking around interface, the tools I can use and so on. It is frustrating considering its just one straight cable that need to be moved

Im still hoping some 3d modeler will show up here and do the job

Edit.
The screenshot is from s3d after importing edited cables. But I did managed to load the CT to 3dsMax (just to try things) with no problem. But the cables\antenas I edited standalone, without entire CT - was afraid to screw something with textures or something.
And yes, I can choose to move on one axis at a time, will try it that way tomorrow, it feels like a good advice, will see.

stanger · 06-15-12, 01:23 PM

I give up, I started talking to to this piece of ... software (and they want couple of thousands of euros for it

)

Now off to have some treatment:

Hylander_1314 · 06-15-12, 03:30 PM

Yes, I know! 3D model software ain't cheap! I would love to dive headlong onto it myself, but I have nowhere near the funding for it.

stanger · 06-16-12, 08:13 AM

OK, found what I was looking for - how not to rotate an object around its center, I had to change pivot:

and make that one cable a separate object, to rotate\move\scale it separatly from whole thing.

End result after importing back in s3d:

It's a little bit longer, but its barely noticable.

Here is the file for testing:
http://www.mediafire.com/?oere3gn47gmh35x
About compatibility: SH41.5, TMO2.5, NavMapMakeOver2.1+air base addon.

Whats left to do: 1)test it in game; 2) find how to enter object length, scaling it with mouse is a pain;

Hylander_1314 · 06-16-12, 09:05 AM

Looking good there Stanger!

For moving just a part of the cable, as in, one end, I think it is the vertex dots you want to see. They are the points where the edges of the cable intersect, or join.

Here's a pic of the Halberstadt I was working on, the light blue dots are the vertexes. Some are very close, but you can see the individual ones on the bigger surfaces.

But anyways, what you will want to do, instead of scaling the cable, is click on the vertex points, for the end you wish to move / adjust to get them to line up. You should be able to move a group of them, by either left clicking on the backround, and scrolling over the ones you wish to move, or zoom in and CTRL + Left Click on them. You can them move them along the axis you wish to adjust.

On the image I posted above, if you click on a vertex, it changes to red to let you know what you have selected. And then do as you wish. It is actually simpler than it sounds.

But you can see all the wires I created, and then had to set into place between the struts on the wings and fuselage.

Hope it helps, at least somewhat.

Hylander_1314 · 06-16-12, 09:11 AM

I also downloaded your file, but am out on patrol at the moment, so I will have to wait until I get back to port.

I will test it TMO 2.2, and FOTRS. It should be fine for TMO 2.5 if it works fine with 2.2, as thee aren't, to my knowledge, any drastic changes between the two versions as far as sub models go.

Also, if it tests out fine, the 02 and 03 CT's need the correction, as does the P-Class CTs. But I think the P-Class, and Sargo / Salmon use the same CT's so once you get one set done, you may be able to just import the model to the other class without going through the whole process of moving it again, unless you want the practice.

stanger · 06-16-12, 09:26 AM

I just did a quick test with early Sargo (in single mission); looks OK.

You need to zoom in really close to notice its not perfectly aligned:

So, if we started it, we should finish it and do the rest. I think it would be safer to do it manualy instead of importing that one model, besides - yes, more practice for me, and I need to check your advice (moving vertex points, instead of scaling).

Hylander_1314 · 06-16-12, 09:48 AM

Looks great! And you can see, that the cable you moved just needs to have the end moved back so it doesn't pass into the attachment point, but just meets up with the face of it.

That is where having the vertexs helps, as you can click on them, and just move them. Much easier than scaling honestly.

stanger · 06-16-12, 11:00 AM

Fixed:
http://www.mediafire.com/?j014t4xo4yk1jf7

If anything is wrong with it, report it. It looks fine in s3d. And yes, working on vertices really helps, thanks Hylander!

Am I seeing it right? 3rd and 4th salmon\sargo towers don't have stern cables at all, only in front of conning tower. So only 2nd CT need to be corrected.

And 2nd salmon\sargo tower:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ex87uxwh7b852il

Here are both Salmon-Sargo CT variants in one file:

http://www.mediafire.com/?0hy4ajz221fm23d

Here are Porpoise CT 1 - 4 in one package:

http://www.mediafire.com/?439oe74hi14m1qg

Hylander_1314 · 06-16-12, 05:57 PM

If it has a stern mast, the starboard cable will run from the center of the mast to the flagpole on the railing of the CT.

If there is no aft mast, there are no aft cables.

And I am downloading now.

Thanks for tackling that little detail! I have been wanting to do this for a long time, but forgot about it, after many failed attempts to export the models. And when I come here, I get sidetracked and forget that I wanted to mention it here.

You da man! (modern American slang).

Honestly, I would offer these up in the supermod threads, and let folks try them out to see if there are any issues. But since all you did, was move an item, and you didn't fiddle with any of the internal workings, it should work fine for all versions, and all variants from vanilla, to TMO, to FOTRS, to GFO RFB. You may also wish to contact Sailor Steve, and see if he would help you upload these little tweaks to the download section.

And you are most welcome on the vertices advice! Glad it made things easier for you!

Hylander_1314 · 06-16-12, 06:31 PM

Just to see what would happen, I dropped them in the Object Folder in mid-patrol, and no ill effects as yet. Like I said, all you were doing was moving a cable attachment point on the tower and mast, so it shouldn't give anyone fits since you didn't mess with anything else.

And thanks again!

stanger · 06-16-12, 06:43 PM

It should be compatible with other mods, worst scenario, people using other mods or stock game would get tower emblems and kill flags entries in dat file (I dont know why they are there in TMO) and maybe a flag mast(?).
In case people will want it, updating stock, or other mods dats would be fairly easy, quick job.

06-14-12, 03:45 PM	#16
stanger Engineer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Poland Posts: 200 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	I can't be that precise with my mouse (and 3dsMax): Cant it be locked somehow at one end, or just positioned by entering coordinates?

06-14-12, 04:22 PM	#18
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Also, when trying to line up things like this, and I know it's a royal pain, but try not to be at angles like your screenshot shows. What I found to work the best when working with cables / wires, or anything thin like that, is make sure to have the model lined up perfectly on one axis at a time, and then move it to where it lines up, then go to the next axis, do the same, and the next. You should either get it very close the first time, or be right on target. But if you work at offset angles, they can tend to frustrate you. Also, as I don't know if 3DSMax does it, but GMax had an option, that would let you move things either by single axis, or combinations of 2 axis', and the latter always gave me fits. So if 3DS Max has that option, make sure it is off in this case, and move the cable one axis at a time. It will go much quicker, smoother, and less frustrating. Just a though is all. Hope it helps! __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

06-15-12, 01:23 PM	#20
stanger Engineer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Poland Posts: 200 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	I give up, I started talking to to this piece of ... software (and they want couple of thousands of euros for it) Now off to have some treatment:

06-15-12, 03:30 PM	#21
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Yes, I know! 3D model software ain't cheap! I would love to dive headlong onto it myself, but I have nowhere near the funding for it. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

06-16-12, 09:05 AM	#23
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Looking good there Stanger! For moving just a part of the cable, as in, one end, I think it is the vertex dots you want to see. They are the points where the edges of the cable intersect, or join. Here's a pic of the Halberstadt I was working on, the light blue dots are the vertexes. Some are very close, but you can see the individual ones on the bigger surfaces. But anyways, what you will want to do, instead of scaling the cable, is click on the vertex points, for the end you wish to move / adjust to get them to line up. You should be able to move a group of them, by either left clicking on the backround, and scrolling over the ones you wish to move, or zoom in and CTRL + Left Click on them. You can them move them along the axis you wish to adjust. On the image I posted above, if you click on a vertex, it changes to red to let you know what you have selected. And then do as you wish. It is actually simpler than it sounds. But you can see all the wires I created, and then had to set into place between the struts on the wings and fuselage. Hope it helps, at least somewhat. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

06-14-12, 04:31 PM	#19
stanger Engineer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Poland Posts: 200 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	I can be more precise in Maya, it is much easier to use with its cleaner interface and better camera controls, but the final result - after importing back to s3d - was a 3d model much smaller, like 2 times smaller. So I decided to use 3ds max for two main reasons: there is skwasjer tutorial on how to import\export to 3dsMax, and s3d itself seems optimized for 3dsmax (its the only program that import\display the model correctly). But I am total noob at this, so I spent hours just looking around interface, the tools I can use and so on. It is frustrating considering its just one straight cable that need to be moved Im still hoping some 3d modeler will show up here and do the job Edit. The screenshot is from s3d after importing edited cables. But I did managed to load the CT to 3dsMax (just to try things) with no problem. But the cables\antenas I edited standalone, without entire CT - was afraid to screw something with textures or something. And yes, I can choose to move on one axis at a time, will try it that way tomorrow, it feels like a good advice, will see.

06-16-12, 08:13 AM	#22
stanger Engineer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Poland Posts: 200 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	OK, found what I was looking for - how not to rotate an object around its center, I had to change pivot: and make that one cable a separate object, to rotate\move\scale it separatly from whole thing. End result after importing back in s3d: It's a little bit longer, but its barely noticable. Here is the file for testing: http://www.mediafire.com/?oere3gn47gmh35x About compatibility: SH41.5, TMO2.5, NavMapMakeOver2.1+air base addon. Whats left to do: 1)test it in game; 2) find how to enter object length, scaling it with mouse is a pain;

06-16-12, 09:11 AM	#24
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	I also downloaded your file, but am out on patrol at the moment, so I will have to wait until I get back to port. I will test it TMO 2.2, and FOTRS. It should be fine for TMO 2.5 if it works fine with 2.2, as thee aren't, to my knowledge, any drastic changes between the two versions as far as sub models go. Also, if it tests out fine, the 02 and 03 CT's need the correction, as does the P-Class CTs. But I think the P-Class, and Sargo / Salmon use the same CT's so once you get one set done, you may be able to just import the model to the other class without going through the whole process of moving it again, unless you want the practice. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

06-16-12, 09:26 AM	#25
stanger Engineer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Poland Posts: 200 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	I just did a quick test with early Sargo (in single mission); looks OK. You need to zoom in really close to notice its not perfectly aligned: So, if we started it, we should finish it and do the rest. I think it would be safer to do it manualy instead of importing that one model, besides - yes, more practice for me, and I need to check your advice (moving vertex points, instead of scaling).

06-16-12, 09:48 AM	#26
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Looks great! And you can see, that the cable you moved just needs to have the end moved back so it doesn't pass into the attachment point, but just meets up with the face of it. That is where having the vertexs helps, as you can click on them, and just move them. Much easier than scaling honestly. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

06-16-12, 11:00 AM	#27
stanger Engineer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Poland Posts: 200 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	Fixed: http://www.mediafire.com/?j014t4xo4yk1jf7 If anything is wrong with it, report it. It looks fine in s3d. And yes, working on vertices really helps, thanks Hylander! Am I seeing it right? 3rd and 4th salmon\sargo towers don't have stern cables at all, only in front of conning tower. So only 2nd CT need to be corrected. And 2nd salmon\sargo tower: http://www.mediafire.com/?ex87uxwh7b852il Here are both Salmon-Sargo CT variants in one file: http://www.mediafire.com/?0hy4ajz221fm23d Here are Porpoise CT 1 - 4 in one package: http://www.mediafire.com/?439oe74hi14m1qg Last edited by stanger; 06-16-12 at 05:37 PM.

06-16-12, 05:57 PM	#28
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	If it has a stern mast, the starboard cable will run from the center of the mast to the flagpole on the railing of the CT. If there is no aft mast, there are no aft cables. And I am downloading now. Thanks for tackling that little detail! I have been wanting to do this for a long time, but forgot about it, after many failed attempts to export the models. And when I come here, I get sidetracked and forget that I wanted to mention it here. You da man! (modern American slang). Honestly, I would offer these up in the supermod threads, and let folks try them out to see if there are any issues. But since all you did, was move an item, and you didn't fiddle with any of the internal workings, it should work fine for all versions, and all variants from vanilla, to TMO, to FOTRS, to GFO RFB. You may also wish to contact Sailor Steve, and see if he would help you upload these little tweaks to the download section. And you are most welcome on the vertices advice! Glad it made things easier for you! __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court --------------------- Last edited by Hylander_1314; 06-16-12 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Forgot a couple things.

06-16-12, 06:31 PM	#29
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Just to see what would happen, I dropped them in the Object Folder in mid-patrol, and no ill effects as yet. Like I said, all you were doing was moving a cable attachment point on the tower and mast, so it shouldn't give anyone fits since you didn't mess with anything else. And thanks again! __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

06-16-12, 06:43 PM	#30
stanger Engineer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Poland Posts: 200 Downloads: 84 Uploads: 0	It should be compatible with other mods, worst scenario, people using other mods or stock game would get tower emblems and kill flags entries in dat file (I dont know why they are there in TMO) and maybe a flag mast(?). In case people will want it, updating stock, or other mods dats would be fairly easy, quick job.