Having trouble using manual targeting

joejccva · 03-01-08, 08:32 PM

I just re-installed SH4 cause I bought the Uboat missions expansion. I wanted to try manual targeting for once, but I'm having difficulty hitting my targets. The torpedo seems to go in the direction of the enemy ships but they aren't connecting. I have realism turned up except for map contacts.

I figured out how to figure the range, but is the Angle on Bow the current bearing of the target from your bow? If I lock onto my target, and it shows a bearing of 015...is 15 the angle of bow also?

When I try to calculate speed it always says it doesn't have enough data to calculate. If I see a merchant should I always assume it's 4-5 knots if it shows "Slow"??

Then once that's done, what do I need to do in the Attack Map with all those dials and settings there?

Need major help guys.

Thanks.
Joe

Tibu · 03-01-08, 08:59 PM

Ok, to figure out the AOB you go to your map screen and use the protractor tool to draw a line a bit in front of the target ship extending to about the middle of the target ship, and then extend the end of that line to your own sub on the map. The resulting angle displayed is the AOB. When you input the angle remember that it's the angle YOUR sub makes witht he target and not vice versa, so if if the target ship is starboard of your sub, then the AOB is in the port side (because your sub is facing the port side of the target).

I'm a noob but that's how it works for me.

joejccva · 03-01-08, 10:54 PM

Ok I think I figured it out by doing what you said, however the AOB changes every second that the enemy ship is moving? So is it good to get the AOB very last right before you fire?

Also in this expansion, the torpedo speed, depth, and spread settings are on a separate screen (Attack Map I think), and the range, speed, and AOB are on the periscope screen. Maybe I'm not looking at it right.

In order to get a precise shot, I have to be fast with all the settings to minimize changes before I fire?

Just making sure I understand.

Thanks again.

Tibu · 03-01-08, 11:49 PM

Once you get good data remember to always click the grey "check mark" on the TDC at the periscope station. This activates the position keeper on the TDC and if your original data was good, you will see on the attack map that the calculated torpedo solution will move or follow the direction of the ship as time passes.

However, the ship may change direction slightly or alter its speed slightly as time goes by, so I just try to do everything and shoot the torps ASAP if the angle of trajectory of the torps against the target isn't too low (as too far away from 90degs when the torps get to the target). This is why the position of your sub against the trajectory of the target is very important (IMO). Makes things easier the closer your sub to target anlge is closer to a dead on 90 degs.

ATR-42 · 03-03-08, 03:25 PM

i can get range and AOB in the Uboat, but im new to this type. Can someone shed some light on how to input speed value from the periscope view?

Zantham · 03-03-08, 04:36 PM

Having just started manual targetting myself, I find the "Fast-90" method the easiest to use. The German TDC will automatically calculate the AOB for you. I plot the contacts course, and extend it. I also start timing the contact which gives me its speed (3 minute rule). I then park myself perpendicular off the estimated course of the contact, I try to get within 2000m, and preferably within 1000m, but I've been successful at much greater distances. Once your sub has stopped moving its easy to set your attack periscope to zero degrees, since you know the targets estimated path its very easy to get the range, and since you've been timing the contact you can get it's speed. After you plug these two variables in, no matter what direction you point your scope the TDC knows the AOB. I don't lock the target. Once the target passes the periscope wait till the part you want to hit passes and fire off your torpedos. If you want to fire more than one, move your scope and shoot again. Only thing is dont forget to open your tubes, this seems to take about 10 secs and is enough to throw your aim off. Note if you fire too far off of a zero gyroangle it will mess up your range setting a little, but I only find this on the long shots, generally for this method the range doesnt even really matter as long as your within a few hundred yards range.

This also works quite well in the US boats too. There is basically no math required for this method, and you can very quickly target numerous vessels in quick sequence. I found the stadimeter useless to me, and I'm terrible at guessing AOB, and by the time I'd calculate it and input it to the TDC it would have changed enough to make my shot inaccurate. So I use the above method which for me is very simple to use. Your mileage may vary

Rockin Robbins · 03-04-08, 11:55 AM

I'll repeat the question: how do you input the speed into the TDC?

Zantham · 03-04-08, 12:29 PM

There is no way to actually enter the speed at the periscope view, you have to do it from the attack map on the U-Boat.

You can attempt to get a contact's speed from the periscope using the notepad. This involves doing a few range sightings with the stadimeter and sending that information into the TDC, and after you send it a few times your weapons guy will have enough info to estimate speed for you, which on the notepad screen you hit the Chronograph symbol.

If he has enough information he'll tell you a speed (not always accurate I've found) or tell you 'not enough information' uin which case wait another 30 secs or so (longer is better), do another stadimeter reading, then go back to the speed part of the notepad and try to get the weapon officer to estimate it again. His estimate will also largely depend how accurate you were in sending precise ranges.

I've probably just confused everyone more with this post lol

Rockin Robbins · 03-04-08, 12:45 PM

I figured the estimate was worth about as much as the American estimate: better than nothing but not good for much. Now, how do you set the speed on the attack map, turn the knobs?

Zantham · 03-04-08, 01:01 PM

Well you have to click the little red button first to make it green which unlock the TDC, then you can turn the knobs. Be sure to click it back to red again when you're done entering data.

I've found that even tho the speed dial sets speed to the knot, its possible to enter increments down to the quarter-knot. This can mean the difference between hitting and missing a long distance shot.

Rockin Robbins · 03-04-08, 02:10 PM

I'm dangerous now!!!

Zantham · 03-04-08, 02:42 PM

No, Rockin Robbins ... Thank YOU. It was your post that started me using manual targetting!!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=67

I hate the stadimeter. I hate trying to identify ships. I hate trying to calculate AOB. Thus I hated manual targetting. It was your explanation of the Dick O'Kane method that suddenly made this game great. I now use manual targetting both in SH3 and SH4.

03-01-08, 08:32 PM	#1
joejccva Mate Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 56 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Having trouble using manual targeting I just re-installed SH4 cause I bought the Uboat missions expansion. I wanted to try manual targeting for once, but I'm having difficulty hitting my targets. The torpedo seems to go in the direction of the enemy ships but they aren't connecting. I have realism turned up except for map contacts. I figured out how to figure the range, but is the Angle on Bow the current bearing of the target from your bow? If I lock onto my target, and it shows a bearing of 015...is 15 the angle of bow also? When I try to calculate speed it always says it doesn't have enough data to calculate. If I see a merchant should I always assume it's 4-5 knots if it shows "Slow"?? Then once that's done, what do I need to do in the Attack Map with all those dials and settings there? Need major help guys. Thanks. Joe

03-03-08, 03:25 PM	#5
ATR-42 Commodore Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 605 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 6	i can get range and AOB in the Uboat, but im new to this type. Can someone shed some light on how to input speed value from the periscope view? __________________

03-04-08, 11:55 AM	#7
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	My turn! I'll repeat the question: how do you input the speed into the TDC? __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-04-08, 12:29 PM	#8
Zantham 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 283 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	There is no way to actually enter the speed at the periscope view, you have to do it from the attack map on the U-Boat. You can attempt to get a contact's speed from the periscope using the notepad. This involves doing a few range sightings with the stadimeter and sending that information into the TDC, and after you send it a few times your weapons guy will have enough info to estimate speed for you, which on the notepad screen you hit the Chronograph symbol. If he has enough information he'll tell you a speed (not always accurate I've found) or tell you 'not enough information' uin which case wait another 30 secs or so (longer is better), do another stadimeter reading, then go back to the speed part of the notepad and try to get the weapon officer to estimate it again. His estimate will also largely depend how accurate you were in sending precise ranges. I've probably just confused everyone more with this post lol Last edited by Zantham; 03-04-08 at 12:42 PM.

03-04-08, 12:45 PM	#9
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Well, you explained how not to do it. I figured the estimate was worth about as much as the American estimate: better than nothing but not good for much. Now, how do you set the speed on the attack map, turn the knobs? __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-01-08, 08:59 PM	#2
Tibu Nub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Ok, to figure out the AOB you go to your map screen and use the protractor tool to draw a line a bit in front of the target ship extending to about the middle of the target ship, and then extend the end of that line to your own sub on the map. The resulting angle displayed is the AOB. When you input the angle remember that it's the angle YOUR sub makes witht he target and not vice versa, so if if the target ship is starboard of your sub, then the AOB is in the port side (because your sub is facing the port side of the target). I'm a noob but that's how it works for me.

03-01-08, 10:54 PM	#3
joejccva Mate Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 56 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Ok I think I figured it out by doing what you said, however the AOB changes every second that the enemy ship is moving? So is it good to get the AOB very last right before you fire? Also in this expansion, the torpedo speed, depth, and spread settings are on a separate screen (Attack Map I think), and the range, speed, and AOB are on the periscope screen. Maybe I'm not looking at it right. In order to get a precise shot, I have to be fast with all the settings to minimize changes before I fire? Just making sure I understand. Thanks again.

03-01-08, 11:49 PM	#4
Tibu Nub Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Once you get good data remember to always click the grey "check mark" on the TDC at the periscope station. This activates the position keeper on the TDC and if your original data was good, you will see on the attack map that the calculated torpedo solution will move or follow the direction of the ship as time passes. However, the ship may change direction slightly or alter its speed slightly as time goes by, so I just try to do everything and shoot the torps ASAP if the angle of trajectory of the torps against the target isn't too low (as too far away from 90degs when the torps get to the target). This is why the position of your sub against the trajectory of the target is very important (IMO). Makes things easier the closer your sub to target anlge is closer to a dead on 90 degs.

03-03-08, 04:36 PM	#6
Zantham 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 283 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	Having just started manual targetting myself, I find the "Fast-90" method the easiest to use. The German TDC will automatically calculate the AOB for you. I plot the contacts course, and extend it. I also start timing the contact which gives me its speed (3 minute rule). I then park myself perpendicular off the estimated course of the contact, I try to get within 2000m, and preferably within 1000m, but I've been successful at much greater distances. Once your sub has stopped moving its easy to set your attack periscope to zero degrees, since you know the targets estimated path its very easy to get the range, and since you've been timing the contact you can get it's speed. After you plug these two variables in, no matter what direction you point your scope the TDC knows the AOB. I don't lock the target. Once the target passes the periscope wait till the part you want to hit passes and fire off your torpedos. If you want to fire more than one, move your scope and shoot again. Only thing is dont forget to open your tubes, this seems to take about 10 secs and is enough to throw your aim off. Note if you fire too far off of a zero gyroangle it will mess up your range setting a little, but I only find this on the long shots, generally for this method the range doesnt even really matter as long as your within a few hundred yards range. This also works quite well in the US boats too. There is basically no math required for this method, and you can very quickly target numerous vessels in quick sequence. I found the stadimeter useless to me, and I'm terrible at guessing AOB, and by the time I'd calculate it and input it to the TDC it would have changed enough to make my shot inaccurate. So I use the above method which for me is very simple to use. Your mileage may vary

03-04-08, 01:01 PM	#10
Zantham 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 283 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	Well you have to click the little red button first to make it green which unlock the TDC, then you can turn the knobs. Be sure to click it back to red again when you're done entering data. I've found that even tho the speed dial sets speed to the knot, its possible to enter increments down to the quarter-knot. This can mean the difference between hitting and missing a long distance shot.

03-04-08, 02:10 PM	#11
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Thank you. I'm dangerous now!!! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

03-04-08, 02:42 PM	#12
Zantham 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 283 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	No, Rockin Robbins ... Thank YOU. It was your post that started me using manual targetting!! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=67 I hate the stadimeter. I hate trying to identify ships. I hate trying to calculate AOB. Thus I hated manual targetting. It was your explanation of the Dick O'Kane method that suddenly made this game great. I now use manual targetting both in SH3 and SH4.