WHY God - is there no decent Sailing Ship war game?!?!

UdiHrant · 10-13-11, 10:32 AM

I beseech Thee!

1 - it makes NO sense since there are so many cool stategic, tactical and historic elements to Sailing Ship warfare.

2 - why can't the Total War series be modded specifically into a realistic sim? (I wanna know and have control of what the crew is doing - are they loading guns or tending the sails - I want to know how mad my flooding is and I want to control of my stern and bow chasers - and most important i want to tell signal captain of one of the ships in my command to do a specific thing and not just drift away until I have time to clock on his friggin ship again....is that too much to ask? Lord?)

3 - has anyone tried both Nappy Total War and East India Company to cmpare their 2 naval aspects?

4 - does anyone know of a game creation platform that would be best to try to 'built my own' sim?

5 - any news n the horizon for an upcoming commercial or serious mod sim in this genre?

Thanks.

Amen.

ajrimmer42 · 10-13-11, 12:02 PM

I agree there is defo room in the market for a really decent age of sail naval sim. I mean Empire/Napoleon TW I thought were very good but like you say you can't sort of go into exactly what the crew are doing and whatnot. I've only briefly played EIC and thought it was a bit rubbish tbh. Can't remember why lol, just did.

oche · 10-13-11, 02:30 PM

Last good sailing ship game i played (which i stopped playing since buggy as hell in Vista) was Age of Pirates.

UdiHrant · 10-13-11, 02:53 PM

The eye candy and models in Nappy Total War are just fine but of course the speed is silly fast.

I would settle for a good top-down representation of a sea battle if the right elements were presented.

I would picture the following:
- reasonably accurate ship types and performance, speed, turning, firepower
- crew management including the ability to delegate on a few levels, captain, helmsman, gunners, sail management, repair, marines
- damage detail such as flooding, list, sail and mast, guns destroyed

The computing power and sophistication for this level of game is about 15 years old so im mystified as to why someone hasn't done one lately.

Salvo comes to mind but is butt-ugly.

jason210 · 10-17-11, 01:14 PM

Asw mentioned, Empire Total War, Napoleon Total War and East India Company all have decent sailing ship war games. The only problem with those is that none offer a simulation - the controls are like left, right, stop, go & go faster; and it all happens too quickly.

Napoleon TW offered the most immersion if you change the camera in the preferences script to unlock the developers camera which then allows you to move right in on the ship and move around and inside the decks.

There's definitely a gap in the market for a proper battle sailing simulator though, kind of along the Hornblower / Master and Commander lines, where you are not restricted by boundaries as in total war, and where you can actually dock in historic ports and so on. Would be so cool!

soopaman2 · 10-17-11, 06:40 PM

The closest I came to a decent age of sail era game was Empire Total war.

Too bad you were rarely attacked navally. Amongst all the other broken crap in that game. So much promise too.

Takeda Shingen · 12-09-11, 06:36 PM

I have nothing to add other than that I would love a study-style age of sail sim. I confess to modding a cannon on the player-made model of HMS Bounty for Virtual Sailor and playing pirate.

Yes, I am that big of a loser.

CaptainHaplo · 12-09-11, 06:40 PM

If your willing o make it single ship combat - EIC set on simulation (and seriously tweaked) is actually NOT bad. The perspective leaves much to be desired, and controls are at best "basic" - but the FEEL is right - at least for me.

con20or · 12-10-11, 05:45 AM

virtual sailor HMS Bounty looks interesting - what sort of control do you have over the sails?

Its usually just furled, battle and full. Agoe of Sail 2 had a speed bar, but I would love to see a game that had control of all the sails, you could tick which ones you ant set, and if the wind was too strong, risk losing that spar.

con20or · 12-10-11, 11:24 AM

This looks interesting

http://home.wxs.nl/~pdavis/Screen.htm

Platapus · 12-10-11, 11:48 AM

Why are there no new "decent" sailing ship video games coming out?

Simple. There is no anticipated market for such games that would justify the development costs.

Video game development is a business. No one in the major video game business is going to think "hey, there hasn't been a xxx game out in a long time, let's do one!".

One would have to do a market study and determine that there is a sufficient probability that a minimum number of people will buy (not pirate) the software in order to not only cover the development and distribution costs but also make a profit.

While there will be a limited number of people interested in such a game, and I include myself in that group, I doubt there is enough interest to justify the costs.

Downunderjock · 11-18-14, 04:28 AM

Er...! didn't the Capt Jack Sparrow games, do a bit of Naval to Pirate ship, fighting on the high seas.

I wish someone, would do a game, as per Nelson, and HMS Victory.

And also, Master and Commander series, the Books where good.
(And Hornblower series.)

The real life Commander, for the above two, was Lord Cochrane, of the British Navy of that period.
He's real life, book's are quite interesting, I found.

PS I forgot Assassins Creed, apparently they are within there games do some sailing, etc.

vlagyimir · 05-20-13, 12:13 AM

Im keeping an eye out for War Thunder. Supposedly it will include Navy and if the same level of realism will be present at Warships control that we have with planes it could be fun.

bix · 05-20-13, 11:36 AM

NEW RELEASE - SINKING SHIPS!! RESCUE OPS!!

all,

this about has it now, in terms of a playable scenario that "completes."

http://www.cityarts.com/signal/signal.zip

yes, it even has rescue operations! they occur automatically if your ship is within a certain distance of an ally ship "on fire." see the signal flags. note: sometimes the flags get overridden by a child state (i'll fix it eventually), so if you see a ship with no G/N numbers, it is basically on fire and will sink within 30 seconds. the rescue ship(s) within proximity will scoop up survivors and buff their G/N numbers. when in rescue it can not fire guns. it can still navigate, but i think i'll constrict that, so she really is a sitting duck.

your currently selected ship (mouse down and hold) will show it's G/N numbers in yellow. you can now direct the ship to a point. it may take time for the ship to sort out its sails and get going in the right direction.

once near the point, it will take station. it will fire at enemies but it will not chase them.

i've watched the scenario play out with wind steady from both east and west, theoretically giving no side an advantage. if i don't touch anything, just let it play, it "ends" about even, there are a few ships scattered about with no navigation or no gunnery.

so, my captains, can you "beat" the scenario!!!

i would say a "decisive" victory would be having 8 ships remaining with N/G both > 0, and the opponent being all burnt/sunk or all remaining without N/G

you prolly can achieve this, i have not yet rolled out half the AI tricks i have in store.

this will be the last release for a bit. i need to 1/2 time on this and another project, i'll still likely release once a weekish, on fridays, with whatever is new.

looking very much forward to hearing your thoughts

best,
bix

http://www.cityarts.com/signal/signal.zip

raymond6751 · 05-20-13, 02:11 PM

but not easy. I got to sink a ship!!

What I / we need is a line of ships. Working each individually is hard. There could be leader ships that others follow, until you get more sophisticated routines.

Well done. I did notice some didn't respond to my orders, perhaps due to being engaged. Also, once on station, most would move off again soon.

A vast amount of work, my friend. Congratulations.

10-13-11, 10:32 AM	#1
UdiHrant Seaman Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 33 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	WHY God - is there no decent Sailing Ship war game?!?! I beseech Thee! 1 - it makes NO sense since there are so many cool stategic, tactical and historic elements to Sailing Ship warfare. 2 - why can't the Total War series be modded specifically into a realistic sim? (I wanna know and have control of what the crew is doing - are they loading guns or tending the sails - I want to know how mad my flooding is and I want to control of my stern and bow chasers - and most important i want to tell signal captain of one of the ships in my command to do a specific thing and not just drift away until I have time to clock on his friggin ship again....is that too much to ask? Lord?) 3 - has anyone tried both Nappy Total War and East India Company to cmpare their 2 naval aspects? 4 - does anyone know of a game creation platform that would be best to try to 'built my own' sim? 5 - any news n the horizon for an upcoming commercial or serious mod sim in this genre? Thanks. Amen.

10-13-11, 12:02 PM	#2
ajrimmer42 Royal Kinotropist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 987 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	I agree there is defo room in the market for a really decent age of sail naval sim. I mean Empire/Napoleon TW I thought were very good but like you say you can't sort of go into exactly what the crew are doing and whatnot. I've only briefly played EIC and thought it was a bit rubbish tbh. Can't remember why lol, just did. __________________ Alex Don't judge a ship by the number of it's guns, but by the skill of it's crew.

10-17-11, 01:14 PM	#5
jason210 Sonar Guy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden / UK Posts: 386 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Asw mentioned, Empire Total War, Napoleon Total War and East India Company all have decent sailing ship war games. The only problem with those is that none offer a simulation - the controls are like left, right, stop, go & go faster; and it all happens too quickly. Napoleon TW offered the most immersion if you change the camera in the preferences script to unlock the developers camera which then allows you to move right in on the ship and move around and inside the decks. There's definitely a gap in the market for a proper battle sailing simulator though, kind of along the Hornblower / Master and Commander lines, where you are not restricted by boundaries as in total war, and where you can actually dock in historic ports and so on. Would be so cool! __________________ Intel Core i9-9900K @ 3.6 GHz nVidia GeForce RTX 2070 32GB memory Windows 10 Pro

10-17-11, 06:40 PM	#6
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	The closest I came to a decent age of sail era game was Empire Total war. Too bad you were rarely attacked navally. Amongst all the other broken crap in that game. So much promise too. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

12-09-11, 06:40 PM	#8
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	If your willing o make it single ship combat - EIC set on simulation (and seriously tweaked) is actually NOT bad. The perspective leaves much to be desired, and controls are at best "basic" - but the FEEL is right - at least for me. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

10-13-11, 02:30 PM	#3
oche Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Santo Domingo Posts: 131 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Last good sailing ship game i played (which i stopped playing since buggy as hell in Vista) was Age of Pirates.

10-13-11, 02:53 PM	#4
UdiHrant Seaman Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 33 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	The eye candy and models in Nappy Total War are just fine but of course the speed is silly fast. I would settle for a good top-down representation of a sea battle if the right elements were presented. I would picture the following: - reasonably accurate ship types and performance, speed, turning, firepower - crew management including the ability to delegate on a few levels, captain, helmsman, gunners, sail management, repair, marines - damage detail such as flooding, list, sail and mast, guns destroyed The computing power and sophistication for this level of game is about 15 years old so im mystified as to why someone hasn't done one lately. Salvo comes to mind but is butt-ugly.

12-09-11, 06:36 PM	#7
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I have nothing to add other than that I would love a study-style age of sail sim. I confess to modding a cannon on the player-made model of HMS Bounty for Virtual Sailor and playing pirate. Yes, I am that big of a loser.

12-10-11, 05:45 AM	#9
con20or Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 269 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	virtual sailor HMS Bounty looks interesting - what sort of control do you have over the sails? Its usually just furled, battle and full. Agoe of Sail 2 had a speed bar, but I would love to see a game that had control of all the sails, you could tick which ones you ant set, and if the wind was too strong, risk losing that spar. __________________ QA Lead on Scourge of War - http://www.scourgeofwar.com/index.shtml (98% rating on Armchair general) - http://www.armchairgeneral.com/scour...ame-review.htm SoW Waterloo Announced for 2015!!

12-10-11, 11:24 AM	#10
con20or Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 269 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	This looks interesting http://home.wxs.nl/~pdavis/Screen.htm __________________ QA Lead on Scourge of War - http://www.scourgeofwar.com/index.shtml (98% rating on Armchair general) - http://www.armchairgeneral.com/scour...ame-review.htm SoW Waterloo Announced for 2015!!

12-10-11, 11:48 AM	#11
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,971 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Why are there no new "decent" sailing ship video games coming out? Simple. There is no anticipated market for such games that would justify the development costs. Video game development is a business. No one in the major video game business is going to think "hey, there hasn't been a xxx game out in a long time, let's do one!". One would have to do a market study and determine that there is a sufficient probability that a minimum number of people will buy (not pirate) the software in order to not only cover the development and distribution costs but also make a profit. While there will be a limited number of people interested in such a game, and I include myself in that group, I doubt there is enough interest to justify the costs. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-18-14, 04:28 AM	#12
Downunderjock Mate Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Geelong, Australia Posts: 55 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Age of Sail War sims Er...! didn't the Capt Jack Sparrow games, do a bit of Naval to Pirate ship, fighting on the high seas. I wish someone, would do a game, as per Nelson, and HMS Victory. And also, Master and Commander series, the Books where good. (And Hornblower series.) The real life Commander, for the above two, was Lord Cochrane, of the British Navy of that period. He's real life, book's are quite interesting, I found. PS I forgot Assassins Creed, apparently they are within there games do some sailing, etc. Last edited by Downunderjock; 11-19-14 at 02:56 AM. Reason: Forgot to add in thread, whoops

05-20-13, 12:13 AM	#13
vlagyimir Nub Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	Im keeping an eye out for War Thunder. Supposedly it will include Navy and if the same level of realism will be present at Warships control that we have with planes it could be fun.

05-20-13, 11:36 AM	#14
bix A-ganger Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 76 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	NEW RELEASE - SINKING SHIPS!! RESCUE OPS!! NEW RELEASE - SINKING SHIPS!! RESCUE OPS!! all, this about has it now, in terms of a playable scenario that "completes." http://www.cityarts.com/signal/signal.zip yes, it even has rescue operations! they occur automatically if your ship is within a certain distance of an ally ship "on fire." see the signal flags. note: sometimes the flags get overridden by a child state (i'll fix it eventually), so if you see a ship with no G/N numbers, it is basically on fire and will sink within 30 seconds. the rescue ship(s) within proximity will scoop up survivors and buff their G/N numbers. when in rescue it can not fire guns. it can still navigate, but i think i'll constrict that, so she really is a sitting duck. your currently selected ship (mouse down and hold) will show it's G/N numbers in yellow. you can now direct the ship to a point. it may take time for the ship to sort out its sails and get going in the right direction. once near the point, it will take station. it will fire at enemies but it will not chase them. i've watched the scenario play out with wind steady from both east and west, theoretically giving no side an advantage. if i don't touch anything, just let it play, it "ends" about even, there are a few ships scattered about with no navigation or no gunnery. so, my captains, can you "beat" the scenario!!! i would say a "decisive" victory would be having 8 ships remaining with N/G both > 0, and the opponent being all burnt/sunk or all remaining without N/G you prolly can achieve this, i have not yet rolled out half the AI tricks i have in store. this will be the last release for a bit. i need to 1/2 time on this and another project, i'll still likely release once a weekish, on fridays, with whatever is new. looking very much forward to hearing your thoughts best, bix http://www.cityarts.com/signal/signal.zip

05-20-13, 02:11 PM	#15
raymond6751 Admirable Mike Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,313 Downloads: 421 Uploads: 0	Nice but not easy. I got to sink a ship!! What I / we need is a line of ships. Working each individually is hard. There could be leader ships that others follow, until you get more sophisticated routines. Well done. I did notice some didn't respond to my orders, perhaps due to being engaged. Also, once on station, most would move off again soon. A vast amount of work, my friend. Congratulations. __________________ My stuff: https://www.authorsden.com/mikeraymond