Unable to pass exam 5 (GWx mod installed)

[siege00]

Another suggestion, given the full scenarios that you've presented: Once in a position of disadvantage, fully break contact with the convoy. Let them get out of visual / sound range but track their movements on the nav map. If you know their heading and speed, you can predict where they will be. Then you can flank the convoy outside of detection range, get back in front of them and re-engage. This would potentially make the mission a bit longer than any of the others, but this is also what you'd do in a mission/campaign if you fell behind a convoy.

Let us know if you upload a video to Youtube.

Originally Posted by Incendio

Exactly, my problem is that ASW Trawler. I hate to be so annoying, It´s not my intention but unfortunately I am still unsuccessful and I tried 3 or 4 times again, it´s so frustrating...

I will give you details about what I am doing now...

Attempt 1: I read a good tutorial somewhere else about sonars and their range so I tried the following:

1) Up periscope to 13 meters, lock to leading destroyer, select torpedo I with dial "T", manual targeting (Manual entry toggle button) and "Target speed input" to 13 Vg / Std (good angle), I wait and shot 1 torpedo to leading destroyer, then she's going down.

2) Unlock periscope, lock periscope in the largest merchant (4800 tons as I remember), again manual targeting and target speed input, dial "S" Salvo torpedoes II and IV, if I have luck, she's going down or is getting slowing down.

3) Down periscope, I try to escape to the right (full ahead) and I dive as fast as I can to 80-100 meters. I put propellers in silent run mode. When I hear depth charges, I stop engines and wait until ASW trawler give up, then she goes to the last tanker and I take advantage, I put propellers to flank and go to periscope depth. Here it´s the big problem, the convoy is far at the right so I try to reach the merchants at 8 knots (flank) and again the nightmare, the ASW motherf... is persecuting me again even if I didn´t up the periscope. I understand, Captbones, that the reason is because the noise of the propellers but otherwise how can I reach the convoy? I am so confused

Attempt 2: Trying to follow Captbones tips...

1) and 2) the same as Attempt 1.

3) The same as Attempt 1 but instead of diving to 80-100 meters, I tried to put propellers in silent mode and aheading slow at periscope depth. It seems that ASW is confused and she really doesn´t know where I am, but again, I have the same problem because I am so behind that the convoy I can´t reach merchants in a good position. My solution: put propellers at flank and try to reach the convoy but the motherf.... ASW seems to hear the propellers and is annoying me again like a disturbing fly (midge) and I give up the exam.

Well, that´s all. Despite I am stuck in this exam (I pretend to make a good exam to start missions), the game is amazing and I am enjoying it despite annoying destructors.

PS. I think the next time I will upload a video to youtube to see better what I am trying to do.

[Incendio]

Originally Posted by siege00

Let us know if you upload a video to Youtube.

Here you have my video, please watch in 720p HD.



I didn´t record everything and It was not my best attempt. I tried to dive and escape in the same direction of the convoy playing the cat and mouse game but ASW never gave up.

Feel free to recommend mods that you think I do not have by the way

[siege00]

Couple of things you can do.

1. After firing at the destroyer, immediately set up your shot and fire at the cargo ship. Don't wait until your torpedoes hit. If you wait, you're just giving the trawler extra time to close on you. You can be moving away before your first torpedo even hits.

2. After you fire the trawler already has a great idea of where you are. Go deep, 50m or so maybe, immediately after the last torpedo leaves the tube. If you can get your submarine icon to turn and stay green, that means you're not being detected. If it's red, you're detected. Solid green for long enough and the trawler should give up. Patience is your best weapon here.

3. Navigate your sub by heading using the compass instead of the course marker. Everytime you release the course marker, your speed it set to standard, which can be detected after you've managed to break contact. If he doesn't have you, you're a green sub, be patient and don't run but continue to maneuver.

4. If he's right on top of you at 50m, try sneaking down to 70. Remember you can't outrun him, you've got to be sneakier. If he's on top of you and your icon is still green, be patient and see what he does next. Playing without the icon is a lot harder. lol

5. You broke contact several times but he picked you back up when your engines went to standard.

Thanks for sharing the video.

[GT182]

Keep your stern or bow pointed at your attacker. Try not to show your broadside to him. The less of you to be seen by their sonar the better off you are. If you can get a 1000 meters away shut down your engines and drift. Momentum should keep you moving a bit farther on your course. Dive 20 to 30 meters deeper if you can.

If you are in the midst of a convoy, stay as close to a ship as you can and he'll mask your engine sound. Hopefully it's one you hit and is slowed down but not sinking. Hopefully after a while the escorts will leave you alone. I've actually sat dead still under a ship that I torpedoed and wasn't moving or sinking. There's no way the enemy will try and drop depth charges or hedge hogs on you. Wait them out.

Good luck.

[CaptBones]

First…let me assure you I’m trying to help you succeed in this specific training exercise and get a good score; I hope you don’t mind a long message with some constructive criticism.

I watched the video and noticed that you are consistently violating the most important principal of submarine warfare, “Real World” or simulated…BE INVISIBLE…use your stealth to maximum advantage, don’t needlessly give away your position. But, the very first thing you should do when this training scenario starts is get moving, slowly, and get down to periscope depth, your motors are stopped and you’re too shallow…and get that scope down, at least so it’s barely out of the water. You’re starting off with three feet or more of periscope sticking out of the water and you leave the scope up far too long; once they see it, it tells them exactly where you are. The AI shares its information, if one ship knows where you are, they all know where you are and that’s where the Trawler will head towards. The Trawler doesn’t have active SONAR/ASDIC…all he’s got is passive hydrophone listening ability. It doesn’t matter what your heading is relative to him, that’s only relevant to active sonar detection; you’ll need to remember that advice when dealing with multiple escorts in convoy battles later on.

I think you’re wasting a lot of time clicking back and forth between the scope and the attack map, especially if you’re leaving the scope sticking way up the whole time. The “TDC” will do a perfectly good job of computing your solution. Until you have more experience, I recommend you let the Weapons Officer and “TDC” do the work; you really only need to use the attack map to select the torpedoes and set speed, depth, pistol, and the spread angle for the salvo shot.

Don’t wait until you hit the DD before setting up your shots at the C-2 cargo ship. BTW, before firing at the C-2 you can send a single torpedo at the tramp steamer on the far side of the convoy. Set it for magnetic pistol and 2m below the keel; it’ll run just ahead of and under the C-2. You should be able to get off all four forward torpedoes at three separate targets before they even know you’re there. Don’t forget to open the tube doors before you shoot, it’ll cause a delay otherwise and the torpedo might miss.

If they don’t spot your scope at first, the wake of the G7a T1 torpedoes will point right at you; they’ll definitely see that as soon as the first torpedo hits, if not before. You need to get moving away from the point from where you launched your attacks; that’s where the Trawler is going, that’s where they know you were when you fired at the DD and C-2 cargo ship…and get that scope down! Otherwise they’ll just track your every movement.

Siege00 is right-on…don’t use waypoints to change course. In fact, get the Navigator out of the control room, put him in the aft torpedo room to help them reload faster (you also need to get the forward torpedo room fully manned).

But OK…in your video you’ve sunk the DD and hit the C-2…why are you turning way off to starboard and running at Flank speed? That’s just giving away your position to the Trawler and taking you out of the path of the rest of the convoy. Don’t do that…stay at slow speed, dive to no more than 20m while you reload. Maintain your original course or change no more than 30deg to starboard to get away from your initial firing position and get into a good position for attacking the rest of the convoy (they aren’t racing away somewhere, just more or less “zig-zagging” along their original base course).

The Trawler can’t hear you if you’re not making a lot of noise; he doesn’t have active SONAR/ASDIC. All he can do is listen for the noise you make and it appears that he's not that good at picking up the sound from reloading the torpedo tubes. He’ll initially go to the position where you fired from and were last seen (get that scope down!) and he’ll bang away with a few depth charges there. He typically sets his depth charges too deep (probably assumes you’re going to dive to evade his attack). If you give him lots of propeller noise to detect and track you, he’ll know exactly where you are and where you’re going.

But, if you behave like a “hole in the water” and keep moving toward the convoy (course 000 or 030) for a couple of minutes, you’ll be almost in the middle between the remaining ships. Then put the scope up (just barely above the surface, not all the way up) and plot the positions of the ships. You should be able to set up to attack one of the tramp steamers with a stern tube shot…but get that scope down again as soon as you’ve identified your target. You’ll also be likely to see that the Trawler is hopelessly running around at your initial firing position looking for you and dropping random depth charges…let him, all he knows is that’s where you used to be. Work out the solution and open the stern tube before you make your final observation and shoot.

Then get out of there again…now’s the time to increase your speed briefly, get down to 20m or so and move away from your firing position…turn to parallel the convoy’s course while the forward tubes are still reloading. Remember, the torpedo wakes will point right at the location where you fired from; that’s where the Trawler is going to head for now.

If the Trawler is giving you a hard time, you’ll do well if you speed up and make a slight course change (30deg or so) when you hear the Trawler making his attack run. Making a radical course change slows you down too much…speed is your friend at that time. Also be sure you get down to only 20m or so; I’ve found it takes too long to get back to periscope depth when you’re ready to shoot again and if you’re somewhere near periscope depth when he starts his attack run, he seems to typically set his depth charges too deep as well. Sure, it’s a little nerve wracking to play that game with depth charges going off nearby, but it’ll keep you hot on the convoy’s trail and ready to shoot again as soon as the tubes get reloaded.

Keep at it, practice makes perfect.

[Incendio]

Thanks CaptBones for your constructive review, for your patience and your time.

I didn´t have much time but I gave it a try and I was able to pass the exam without sinking Trawler!

Here it is what I did:

1) Up periscope, set torpedo I, dial "T" , manual targeting to leading destroyer, I shooted torpedo I and inmediately down periscope and silent running, ahead slow, in the same direction I had by default and in periscope depth.

2) After some minutes, engines stop, up periscope, torpedos II and IV, dial "S" in manual targeting to largest merchant (C-2). Inmediately periscope down, silent running, and I changed the heading, this time with compass/rudder, 30 degrees, dive to 20 meters.

3) After some minutes, engines stop, up periscope, torpedo III to the furthest merchant (small tanker?? I don´t remember) and that´s all, I do not have more torpedoes until reload.

4) Periscope down, silent running aheading slow, I changed heading with compass/rudder and dive to 20 meters. After several minutes "sightseing" in the depths, mission completed.

5) Engines full ahead and surface the boat, return to base.

Now I feel like Günther Prien

Well but I do not feel really comfortable with this success and I have some questions and thinks to clarify...

1) I needed two torpedoes to sink the largest merchant, C-2. I only hit this merchant but not sink, is sinking very slowly. It takes me soooo long to sink this ship... Are you able to sink this ship faster with only two torpedoes?

2) I have only used one torpedo to sink the furthest merchant ship but in a similar manner to C-2. Fortunately, I had very good shot, I hit it in the bow (front of the ship), this part started to burn and after some minutes the ship was sunk. Then, I finished the mission without reloading, I had only torpedo V left but I sunk 3 ships of 6 that has the convoy that sums up to 8,500 tons, only 500 extra tons of the primary objectives. Then, I considered the mission dangerous because I had the Trawler near me and I surfaced the boat. Should I be considered as a coward to avoid sinking the rest of the fleet?

3) Because the trawler was near me, I surfaced the boat and she started to shooting at me but I returned to base anyway with excellent qualification. This part made me a little cold as in a real situation I have serious doubt I would have survived the Trawler...

I am sure there are better ways to pass this exam. Anyway, It was very funny to see the trawler throwing away depth charges in a place when even I was not but It seems that a lot of actions in a short period of time gave to the convoy a better accuracy information about my position so each next attack was more tense that previous ones.

Thank you again, I want to give it a try again.

[CaptBones]

It sounds as though you've gotten the hang of it and I'm sure you would improve steadily if you want to continue your training at the Naval Academy. Of course, you don't have to do that and you're as ready as any new player to tackle some single missions or start a career.

Regarding the questions:
1). The C-2 is tough...most of the time it takes 2 torpedoes and she does sink very slowly. I have had some "lucky" hits on C-2s that sank them quickly, sometimes even with one torpedo. They have an "Achilles Heel" (fuel tanks) just forward of the bridge, about 4-5m above the keel; one hit there sinks them, sometimes breaking them in two.

2). There's no cowardice in getting away and living to fight again another day. But, it is a game after all and you can afford to "die" many times in the process of learning what works well and what doesn't work so well.

3). You can stay at periscope depth, turn away from the Trawler and the rest of the convoy and let them sail away over the horizon at TC 32 before you surface to end the mission. Keep your speed slow and you won't drain the battery completely while putting some distance between you and them.

I was a little surprised that you weren't able to get into the middle of the convoy and use your stern tube on the tramp steamer in the right-hand "column" of the convoy. Every time you raise the periscope, be sure to quickly check the navigation map and mark the position of every ship you see there (you can cheat a little and pause the game to do that). You might try to speed up and turn to use the stern tube...you have to be careful that you're behind the Trawler (in his baffles) when you do that, otherwise he'll hear your propeller noise. A quick periscope observation will tell you if it's safe to speed up or not.

Or, after you fire the last forward torpedo, turn East and parallel the convoy's course for awhile, making sure you don't make too much noise and give your position away to the Trawler (and dive to 20m to avoid collisions that could damage or destroy your periscopes...been there, done that). If you've fully manned the forward torpedo room, you should get the first tube reloaded in time to make another attack...they won't have gotten much farther ahead of you even when you're staying at slow speed. But, if you do make another attack, the Trawler will head for your position straightaway; so don't forget to move away from that firing position.

As an alternative...remember, you've got all day...you can slowly withdraw and reload all of your tubes while tracking the convoy by sound. Once they, especially the Trawler, are all nearly out of sight, you can surface and run around the convoy to a position out ahead of them. Use the ruler on the navigation map to plot their extended course and find a position for another ambush. You should generally stay at least 12km away from the nearest ship, in order to run at Flank speed to get around and ahead of them.

Another good way to deal with this convoy after your initial "surprise attack" is to use magnetic pistols on the rest of the ships. You can shoot with a less-than-perfect solution, since you don't have to be concerned with the angle of impact that sometimes causes impact pistols to malfunction. Set the depth one to two meters below their keel depth; note that the "pointer" on the depth setting dial reads a little higher than the actual setting (the tip of the cursor arrow is somewhat obscured).

Anyway, I'm sure we are all happy to see that you've passed the exam and I wish you the best of luck in your future missions and patrols. Good luck and good hunting!

[Incendio]

Dear CaptBones and Siege00,

Here you will find a video I made a day ago with convoy attack exam passed. Please remember I am still learning. The video was made to show the game to a friend so I focused on explosions, ships, effects and some old german tunes in gramophone to celebrate the victory



CaptBones, I finally did what you have told me in the last message in a similar manner (I made the video before reading your last message). Once I sunk more than 8000 tones, I turned in the opposite direction of the convoy, I navigated aheading slow (20 meters of depth) during 30 or more minutes and then I surfaced the boat with the trawler far from my position.

You have just answered a question I had. Sometimes I step just below a ship and I have some damage, I will be more cautious and dive to 20 meters instead of periscope depth while diving through the convoy. Now, I have a very noob question In this video, as you can see, I avoided to raise the periscope and I used It only when It was neccesary but I see my torpedoes didn´t reloaded (I have autoreload). What do you need to (auto) reload the torpedoes?

Anyway I will try your tips but before, what do you think about the video? Thank you and any feedback would be appreciated.

[siege00]

Great vid and congratulations on the success! CaptBones' advice was dead on.

Also, don't forget to make sure your torpedo rooms are completely manned. I believe it's the 6th icon down on the left side of the screen in your UI. It'll show a silhouette of your submarine and where your men are currently in each compartment. You will not be able to reload, or it'll take a really long time to reload, if your men are not in the compartments with officers leading them. There will be a bar across the compartment showing you the efficiency. You can drag your men around (and officers by their portraits). As CaptBones said, navigator in the aft torpedo room and watch officer into the forward. Then if you hover over the torpedo tube in the inventory screen, it'll show you the expected time to reload.

Again, great job! If you make more vids, please share. . I look forward to the day when you're trying it without map contacts. It's a lot more challenging, and your map will end up with your content all over it while you track targets and execute attacks.

Also, as CaptBones suggested, execute your attack, breakaway, get back in front of the convoy, and re-attack. And never feel like a coward for running away, some us play DID (Dead Is Dead), no reloading from saves etc, and a dead ship cannot accrue anymore tonnage. Subs are like snipers and are not designed for brawling. Sneak up on your prey, take a bite, and sneak away. Keep biting until you've had your fill or the risks outweigh the rewards.

[CaptBones]

Good work...

OK...easy answer to the torpedo reload question...you have rigged the boat for silent running; that stops reloading of the torpedoes, as well as any damage control or pumping/dewatering of flooding compartments. Notice the four icons, on the top of the toolbar at middle left, with the reddish 'slash' marks through them.

To be honest, in this training scenario, I've never been compelled to set silent running...as long as you keep your speed low, the surviving Trawler does not seem to be able to hear the noise of your crew reloading torpedoes. If he does hear you and approaches, rig for silent running and move away until you're at least 1500-2000m away and then resume reloading. Let them work while you're carrying out your first attacks and they'll have at least one tube reloaded by the time you've gotten in position to attack one of the remaining freighters.

The other thing you ought to consider is NOT stopping your e-motors when you're making your attacks. It isn't really necessary, as long as you remain at slow speed and only expose a short piece of the scope for a very short time.

When you get a little more comfortable with the Trawler being a out of play astern of you, try speeding up long enough to get into position to use your stern tube on that Tramp Steamer on the south side of the convoy. Just remember to take a quick 'peek' at the Trawler to make sure you are in his baffles before you speed up, and then don't 'spare the horses'...get into a good position to use the stern tube and another bow shot once that first tube is reloaded.

You're doing well...keep up the good work and you'll be ready to tackle a 'real' convoy soon.

[Incendio]

Thank you Siege00 for your reply.

I didn´t know how to manage the crew to reload the torpedoes faster. Apologizes for being unexperienced, I am trying to do my best learning from exams, video tutorials and other youtube fans videos but damn It! I find the game manual and tutorials insufficient to do all the things you mention. For example: management of the crew. Where is a game tutorial explaining how to manage your crew? I have to learn how to repair the sub in an old post of this forum and in a video I found on youtube. As a result, I have a lot of gaps and I am the worst submarine commander ever.

By the way, I am looking at your profiles and see that you come from United States of America and you are playing with a german submarine sinking allied ships? lol. I remember a Simpson episode when Kent Brockman said something like We are worse than the ancient Romans

Finally, apologizes for my pretty horrible english, It is obvious I am not an english native speaker.

Greetings

[siege00]

LOL Incendio! And... no apologies necessary. We all had to learn the same way you are. Fortunately subsim is here. I played SH3 for a long time before realizing that there is a great community here to help and answer questions, not to mention the mods! When I found subsim I can't tell you how happy I was. lol. And everyone here is really helpful even if some opinions differ. This is a great place to get and share information.

The lack of a good manual has hurt every captain out there in all of the SH games. You'll get the hang of it though don't worry, and you're already off to a great start. Much better off and doing better than I did when I first started. And your english is great. Language is there for only 1 reason, to communicate and understand ideas, and you're doing that clearly. In my life I've spoken english, I spoke spanish as a small child apparently, french, japanese, and for the last few years I've been learning more and more german. I love languages, and have realized that many translations (especially in movies and books) are not how the authors and screenwriters meant them to be. Even in music the differences can be huge. I do find that I lose a lot in languages though due to not being around them much.

Keep up the great work! SH3 is really an intriguing game and there's so much depth to it, and with the mod community, it's probably even more popular today than when it was released. Und Ja! Ich möchte alle Allied Schiffe zu sinken. yes, I want to sink all allied ships. hahah. Pardon to the Germans if mein Deutsch ist schlecht. I think there are many Brits here too. lol

[Geoff-A]

Incendio, great to see you trying. We've all been there
There is a thread about keyboard shortcuts on this forum. Have a look there, and remember the golden rule in GWX (on patrol) never surface until you are certain nothing is up there. We have all had that surprise too