The mystery of the moving Deckgun

[Domanating]

Hello there, gents.

So I'm a user of TMO+RSRDC and I'm well aware of the famous deckgun and crew disappearing when you change its placement during the campaign.

Like many of you, I like having the gun placed on the bow. When I start the campaign with a S-42 Sub everything's peachy.

When I'm awarded the 1st new sub, the gun moves to the stern position without my permission. I tried putting it on the bow again but as predicted, the crew slots and gun are lost when doing so.

the TMO readme says that the deck gun will stay on same position from start to end of the campaign. Doesn't it have account of the new subs?

[Domanating]

Bump

At least a "I don't know" reply is more pleasing than complete silence

[Admiral Halsey]

Well i've never encountered this in all my time playing TMO so I have no clue as to what''s causing this.

[Sniper297]

Okay, I don't know. You want everyone to respond and say that you'll have to sift through several thousand "I don't know" responses to find the one response that solves the problem, do you want spam spam and more spam with that?

I don't play TMO or RSRDC or RFB, so I have no clue if they did anything about the bug in any of those.

I did however come up with a workaround for the stock game, change the default position from stern to bow.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=22

I did upload it;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4364

But I have no idea if it's compatible with TMO RSRDC RFB OM or WTF mods. If not then read the linked post #22, which gives a step by step how to mod any boat for a default bow deck gun.

[Lokisaga]

Originally Posted by Domanating

the TMO readme says that the deck gun will stay on same position from start to end of the campaign. Doesn't it have account of the new subs?

Hello,
Based on my experiences with deck guns and TMO that part of the manual means that you shouldn't change the default deck gun placement on your boat. Wherever the deck gun is when you get a new boat should be where it stays. The game "remembers" gun placement for each boat separately. I guess BuShips is very sensitive about that issue. I know a lot of people have an ingrained dislike of the stern deck gun, but it's really not that hard to use. I've also heard that you should never have crew in the deck or anti-aircraft gun slots if you plan on doing any modifications, or when the game decides to modify you conning tower.

I hope that helps.

[Domanating]

Ok so I make breakthrough. If I start campaigns with Porpoise or later subs the deck gun stays where it's supposed to when I get newer ships.
The situation occurs only when upgrading from S-18/42 to Porpoise or later subs. I have no idea why.

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Okay, I don't know. You want everyone to respond and say that you'll have to sift through several thousand "I don't know" responses to find the one response that solves the problem, do you want spam spam and more spam with that?

I don't play TMO or RSRDC or RFB, so I have no clue if they did anything about the bug in any of those.

I did however come up with a workaround for the stock game, change the default position from stern to bow.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...8&postcount=22

I did upload it;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4364

But I have no idea if it's compatible with TMO RSRDC RFB OM or WTF mods. If not then read the linked post #22, which gives a step by step how to mod any boat for a default bow deck gun.

I did find and try your mod and also tried manually but in both cases the result was no deck gun at all. From campaigns to war patrols, quick missions and tutorials, all made me start without deck gun. I had no crew slots for it and there were never deckguns to "purchase" in campaign mode.

[Sniper297]

Hmmm. Don't have RSRDC but I do have a copy of the TMO mod, took a look at the NSS_Porpoise.upc file;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGStern
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGBow

"Default1" is the automatic choice when starting a new career or changing subs, that will default to stern gun since it's first. Change like this;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGStern

And it doesn't matter if I start a new career with a Porpoise or upgrade from an S boat to a Porpoise, I get a bow gun by default. Might depend on the year it's upgraded, that's hard to test since you have to play a career for years with random times for new construction offers. Possibly changing both to bow;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGBow

Would fix that problem if it is a problem. SH4 programming is like a woman, you have to limit the choices or they'll spend the whole day shopping. If the game can only choose between Bow and Bow then it has no excuse for screwing it up.

[Domanating]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Hmmm. Don't have RSRDC but I do have a copy of the TMO mod, took a look at the NSS_Porpoise.upc file;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGStern
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGBow

"Default1" is the automatic choice when starting a new career or changing subs, that will default to stern gun since it's first. Change like this;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGStern

And it doesn't matter if I start a new career with a Porpoise or upgrade from an S boat to a Porpoise, I get a bow gun by default. Might depend on the year it's upgraded, that's hard to test since you have to play a career for years with random times for new construction offers. Possibly changing both to bow;

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasic
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack3in50calDGBow

Would fix that problem if it is a problem. SH4 programming is like a woman, you have to limit the choices or they'll spend the whole day shopping. If the game can only choose between Bow and Bow then it has no excuse for screwing it up.

I found that removing RSRDC and enabling your mod made the deck guns available again.
Even forcing the game to choose between Bow and Bow (hard choice) with TMO and RSDC enabled will cause the deck guns to vanish completely.
I have yet to test if the bow gun stays on the bow when upgrading from S type subs.

[Sniper297]

I ran a couple tests with the stock game, starting Asiatic careers with an S-18 then getting the "new construction" offer, both times it was a Porpoise which did default to bow gun.

Since I've never fiddled with RSRDC or RFB I can only speculate about that, but I would GUESS (theory only, no evidence to support it) that one of these crewmember slots modifications with the special abilities hacks might be a factor. Or might not.

Looking at the file sizes for my mod of NSS_Porpoise.upc and the one from TMO, I note that mine is 65,763 bytes and the TMO is 65,957 bytes. In notepad with status bar enabled mine shows 2029 lines, TMO has 2032 which would suggest three lines of data have been added someplace. Obviously it would take a while to find out where and what. And if RSRDC has some bug in it elsewhere causing this I have no way to test that. What you could try is activate TMO and RSRDC, then my mod last, overwriting whatever changes the other two made to the UPC files. If there are special crewmen abilities or something in one of those you would lose them, but at least you'd be guaranteed a bow deck gun.

[Domanating]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

What you could try is activate TMO and RSRDC, then my mod last, overwriting whatever changes the other two made to the UPC files.

That's the 1st thing I did when I found your mod a couple weeks ago. The result as stated before, deck guns just vanish.
This issue is giving me a headache...
I think I'll reinstall the game. Usually that works as if it was magic.

[Sniper297]

I tried TMO when it first came out, decided it was as much fun as listening to a class full of second graders trying to play Honky-Tonk Women on recorders. So I went back to stock game with Webster's GFO mod, and DID have occasions where the deck gun slots vanished into the 5th dimension after changing from stern to bow with the stock game. After that I started every career by moving the gunners up into the damage control section, leaving the deck gun slots empty, then changed to a bow deck gun before moving the gunners back into the slots. Get a new sub repeat same procedure, making sure I had a bow deck gun before leaving the office. Doing it that way I never saw the problem again, but always always change to bow deck gun at the very start of a career like it was a holy ritual.

I never tried RSRDC or any mod with super crewmen, but I have read some posts here and there discussing the addition of extra crew slots and special abilities. The first thought that struck me was that unless that's done just right it could cause crew slot glitches in unexpected sections at random times. Dunno which mods have them and which don't, but that would be the first place I'd look for this recent flood of disappearing deck guns.

[mobucks]

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Obviously it would take a while to find out where and what.

The free program WinMerge would make this operation completely painless. It basically opens two text files and compares them line by line. It's even more sophisticated than that in that if file A has a large block of information that file B doesn't, it won't compare line by line anymore until the large block of lines in file A completes.

Very handy tool for modding and ninjaing parts of mods you want into a mini mod of your own.

[Domanating]

Turns out I can do magic tricks.
The reinstallation fixed the deck guns. Bow guns stay on the bow from S types to later versions with TMO and RSRDC enabled.
I'll remember to reinstall before asking questions

Cheers to everyone that had the patience and availability to help

[Sniper297]

I'd advise making a zipped backup copy of the entire folder now, before you have future problems. Saves all the aggravation of uninstalling and reinstalling when you can just delete the folder, unzip the backup, and be back to the good starting point.

[Havan_IronOak]

One F Jef has a you-tube video series in which he swaps out his rear-facing deck gun for a front mounted one. NO MODS AT ALL (April 2011)

He gets a new sub in Pearl after starting in the Asiatic fleet. He runs one patrol just fine then gets notified that they removed something from his sub (farings or some such) Turns out that after that he's missing his deck gun crew. The gun's still there, it just really really slow to load (all by himself)