Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Soooo....Putin tries to bully Poland now, but what with?

Poland will stand fast.

[mapuc]

From what I understand is that USA are sending a bunch of the MBT Abrams to Ukraine this autumn.(September I think it was)

Will they make any different ?

Also heard something about Israel sending some of their MBT Merkava

Even here. Will they make any different ?

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

From what I understand is that USA are sending a bunch of the MBT Abrams to Ukraine this autumn.(September I think it was)

Will they make any different ?

Also heard something about Israel sending some of their MBT Merkava

Even here. Will they make any different ?

Markus

The Israel sending some of their MBT Merkava is not gone to happen, I think last year there was also news in paper for delivery of rocket systems that did not happen either.

Tanks will only make a difference when they can do their job, for that there is a breakthrough of the defense lines needed tanks need maneuvering space, else they are too easy targets.

These are the six main fronts in Ukraine to keep an eye on

Ukraine stepped up the intensity of its offensive last week. In which locations is most of the fighting taking place, and what is the tactical importance of these spots?

1. Hrozove
Near the drained reservoir in the Dnipro River, Ukraine is trying to force a breakthrough towards the town of Hrozove. Since the beginning of the offensive, the Ukrainian army has mostly been throwing pinpricks and also managed to liberate two small villages in this area. In the last two days, the military seems to be making some ground gains again. This attack seems mainly aimed at surrounding the town of Vasylivka. In this small town on the Dnipro River there is a highway towards Melitopol. If Ukraine takes control of this road, the army will have a much better connection towards Crimea. If the Ukrainians can advance towards Melitopol, the army can cut the Russian front in half and cut off Crimea from occupied eastern Ukraine. To get that far and advance towards the Sea of Azov, Ukraine still needs to break through two lines of trenches.

2. Robotyne
The most intense fighting this week took place near the town of Robotyne in Zaporizhzhya province. Ukraine has previously attempted to make significant ground gains here, but then got bogged down by the Russians' stout defences. During these initial attacks in early June, several modern Leopard tanks were damaged, images of which were generously shared by Russian military bloggers. This setback has caused the Ukrainian army to change its attack tactics. In recent weeks, the focus was mainly on depleting the Russians' supply lines by attacking bridges and ammunition stores, which would make it more difficult for the Russian army to get fresh forces and equipment to the front. Ukraine has been attempting to reach Robotyne again since Wednesday, losing many military vehicles. Images show that the Ukrainian army is active east of Robotyne, meaning that the army has advanced several kilometres. Near Robotyne is the first line of Russian trenches. Ukraine, via Robotyne, is eventually trying to take the town of Tokmak under fire. That is a major hub for rail transport. Ukraine is thus trying to disrupt the supply of heavy equipment (such as tanks).

3. Staromlynivka
Most of Ukraine's success over the past month and a half has been in the area of Staromlynivka. Since the offensive, the army already managed to liberate seven villages in this area. On Thursday, the eighth village was liberated, the hamlet of Staromaiorske in Donetsk province. Ukraine's advance is mainly via a river valley. Russia is trying to halt the advance via the slightly higher hills. The gained ground and especially the liberated villages are a boost for the Ukrainian army. At the same time, the route south, towards Staromlynivka and eventually the big city of Mariupol, is longer and also leads over smaller roads than the advance via Tokmak near the front around Robotyne. Also, through this third front in the south, Ukraine is trying to break the Russian front in half in order to isolate Crimea. The attacks on the Crimean bridge also fit into this plan of attack, making it even more difficult for Russia to get its supplies in order.

4. Andriivka
The fighting on the eastern line is much more laborious than that in the south. The front here is also much more static. Here lies the old front line created in 2014, when the separatist provinces of Luhansk and Donetsk seceded from Ukraine. The trenches dug then still form part of the front line. For the Russians, the trenches complicated the army's advance early in the war. The same trenches are now causing problems for Ukraine in deploying modern Western tanks in the counterattack. In recent days, there has been some movement near the small town of Andriivka, where Ukraine has gained ground.

5. Bakhmut
Fierce fighting has broken out again near Bakhmut in recent weeks, with Ukraine trying to encircle the lost town. After months of bloody fighting and house-to-house battles, the Wagner mercenary army managed to occupy Bakhmut in May. Ukraine's counterattacks seem to have had some success in recent weeks. Both north and south of the city, the Ukrainian military has gained ground. From the hills to the north, Ukraine is trying to take the ruins of Bakhmut under fire. Military analysts assume that Ukraine does not want to move into the city anytime soon, but mainly wants to interrupt the Russians' supply via encirclement. The battle around Bakhmut is especially symbolically significant. Bakhmut was the last major victory for the Russian army and, if lost, would mark a sensitive defeat for Putin.

6. Stelmachivka
The Russian army did have some success on the northern part of the front line, near Stelmachivka, in recent weeks. According to Russian military bloggers and also Ukrainian sources, Russia has proportionately many soldiers and equipment stationed here. In this area, Russia is trying to take advantage of Ukraine's targeting of its scarce resources. While in the southern line mainly Western tanks and other equipment are deployed, here on the eastern line the Ukrainian army has to make do mostly with old Russian-made weapons. During the rotation of Ukrainian army battalions - where new soldiers come to replace existing combat troops - Russia managed to gain ground this week. The newly arrived troops managed to halt the advance at Stelmachivka, but the fighting was a warning that along the 2,500-kilometre front it is not only Ukraine that can be on the attack. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ach...uden~b517aeed/

Ukrainian army achieves first Russian defence line with anti-tank moat and dragon's teeth-

Footage has emerged for the first time of a Ukrainian armoured vehicle near the first prepared Russian defence line in the south of the country. A video circulating on social media shows a vehicle getting stuck on an anti-tank ditch with hundreds of so-called 'dragon's teeth' in the foreground as well. The footage was taken from a Russian military position and presumably shows a Ukrainian military vehicle driving through a field towards a ditch, with an impressive row of dragon's teeth - pyramid-shaped concrete blocks that serve as barriers against tanks - behind it. It is possible that minefields also lie between the two lines. A man also appears in the picture, presumably the driver, who starts running back towards a row of trees. When the vehicle reaches the ditch, there is a large cloud of smoke. A second later, the vehicle seems to disappear and get stuck in the ditch. It is as yet unclear what exactly is happening. It is possible that the armoured vehicle was remotely piloted and no longer contained Ukrainian troops. Pro-Ukrainian channels claim it is their forces testing whether a vehicle can get over the ditch and the infamous dragon's teeth, while pro-Russian channels claim the military vehicle fell prey to one of their attacks.

The video was taken by a Russian drone in Zaporizhzhya province, on the front between the occupied villages of Robotyne and Verbove towards the latter place. This suggests that the Ukrainian army may be trying to bypass Robotyne via its flank. Through this sector of the front, the intention would be to eventually reach Melitopol via the town of Tokmak. Tokmak is 25 kilometres from the current front, while Melitopol is another 80 kilometres away. Previous satellite images of the field in question also show the anti-tank trench and dragon's teeth. They are part of a particularly extensive network of Russian defence lines built throughout southern and eastern Ukraine on and behind the front in recent months. It is the first time images of Ukrainians now reaching that line have surfaced. In some places, however, there are three to five such lines in a row, with about 10 kilometres between them each, which will make it a particularly tough job for the Ukrainian army to overcome them. It is admittedly unknown to what extent the lines are all manned by Russian reserve troops.

Ukrainian troops did manage to retake the village of Staromajorske from the Russians yesterday. Staromajorske is in the Donetsk region, further west from Robotyne and Verbove and just over 100 kilometres from the coastal city of Mariupol, which has been entirely in Russian hands since May last year. In the counter-offensive that has so far been stalled, the capture of the relatively small village counts as a bright spot. A number of small settlements north of the village had earlier been taken by Ukraine. Currently, fighting is said to be going on for Oerozhajne, west of Staromajorske. Staromlynivka, a village a few kilometres further south, seems a logical next target for Ukrainian soldiers. https://www.demorgen.be/oorlog-in-oe...nden~bbe63ec5/

[mapuc]

The cost !? What have been the cost in manpower and material on both side since this major attack started ?

Yes they have advanced some kilometer but how much did they pay for this ?

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

The cost !? What have been the cost in manpower and material on both side since this major attack started ?

Yes they have advanced some kilometer but how much did they pay for this ?

Markus

High these kinda attacks always cost allot, but we do not know, maybe when this is over we will learn think we will be shocked.

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

I copied this part from a Danish article who was posted yesterday

"Russia has largely given up on the idea of winning this war militarily in any conventional sense"

The article didn't explain why or what Putin may come up with if he has given up winning the war conventionally.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

^ Should that be the case then I'm confident we'd be amongst the last to find out/be informed.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

^ Should that be the case then I'm confident we'd be amongst the last to find out/be informed.

Rest of the article was about Economical warfare

Russia has sent extra warship to the Black sea could indicate a blockade of Ukrainian harbours. and thereby prevent grain being shipped this way. Furthermore they have even threaten to sink any merchant who enter Ukraine border/harbour.

Now it is where I'm thinking is Economical warfare outside conventional warfare ?
I thought that it was a part of it.

In my head letters ABC came up when I read the quote I posted earlier.

Markus

[Skybird]

I discussed with somebody today, and he made a good argument for (he was a tanker) that maybe the leopard 1a5 serves the Ukrainians better than the heavier western tanks leo2, m1, chally2. Because it weighs around 20 tons less. The other tanks need weight confomal lorry trailers the Ukraine has not had, and many bridges also do not allow 60 tons of steel monster. Next he said the leo1 needs a smaller variety of technical spare parts, easing logistical pressure. We do not see many, if any, tank on tank duels, we're the Western tanks may shine, and the leo1 is not faster than Russian tanks - except in reverse. It must not expose its flanks when moving back, Russian tanks indeed turn in place to move back from their position in forward gears, if they simply reverse, they move with the speed of a pedestrian. Artillery and missile take out a leo1 as well as an Abrams, and if tank on tank does not occur, there is no need to buy the weight issues to get a fast tank into play.
Good arguments, but all this is theory. We will know for real once Germany has handed over those 100+ leopard 1s.


Leo1s have better fire control systems, optics, EMES of first generation, and are more comfortable for the crew.

[Catfish]

How about some Nato ships escorting grain convoys to Turkey, preferrably escorted by turkish NATO ships.
Let's see if Putin attacks those –

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

How about some Nato ships escorting grain convoys to Turkey, preferrably escorted by turkish NATO ships.
Let's see if Putin attacks those –

I'd like to see that too.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Skybird

and the leo1 is not faster than Russian tanks - except in reverse.

You sure he wasn't referring to the French Tanks?

[Dargo]

In the Robotyne operational sector, elements of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have effectively breached the first line of defense of the Russian "Surovikin" line. As previously stated, the second line has been reached in the vicinity of Verbove.

https://twitter.com/astraiaintel/sta...64713044615183