Thinking to migrate to Vista X64(64 bit system) from XP 32 bit

Castout · 01-12-09, 11:06 PM

Just that will Dangerous waters and Silent Hunter 3 run okay in Vista 64 bit system?

Just how much more secure a 64 bit system when compared to a 32 bit system?
Is Vista more secured than XP?

I use my PC mainly for entertainment, Games and the internet.
And my processor can handle 64 bit OS just fine.

Should I migrate to 64 bit system?

The thing is for using 64 bit Vista the minimum memory is stated as 4 Gigabyte. So that's the minimum. I'm thinking to use either 6Gb or 8Gb RAM. The last time I checked the biggest single RAM available was a 2Gb chip. So I'm going to need at least 3 or 4 of them.

My biggest interest to use the Visa x64 is the relative security of 64 bit system when compared to 32 bit system. Actually I do not need to use multiple application simultaneously as what is offered by Vista x64 OS.

Should I migrate or should I delay?

nikimcbee · 01-12-09, 11:17 PM

I hear it runs, but starforce will keep it from running. I have been unable to insall sh3 on my vista 64bit. The disk protection is the problem. I have a few other programs that have SF on it and i can't install them.

A Very Super Market · 01-12-09, 11:32 PM

Yeah, most of your games will be screwed over by vista. I don't recommend you switch. Even if it means missing out on 64-bit, its a pain in the arse to patch up all your games, and have some of them not even work due to SF.

Thomen · 01-12-09, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

Just that will Dangerous waters and Silent Hunter 3 run okay in Vista 64 bit system?

Just how much more secure a 64 bit system when compared to a 32 bit system?
Is Vista more secured than XP?

I use my PC mainly for entertainment, Games and the internet.
And my processor can handle 64 bit OS just fine.

Should I migrate to 64 bit system?

The thing is for using 64 bit Vista the minimum memory is stated as 4 Gigabyte. So that's the minimum. I'm thinking to use either 6Gb or 8Gb RAM. The last time I checked the biggest single RAM available was a 2Gb chip. So I'm going to need at least 3 or 4 of them.

My biggest interest to use the Visa x64 is the relative security of 64 bit system when compared to 32 bit system. Actually I do not need to use multiple application simultaneously as what is offered by Vista x64 OS.

Should I migrate or should I delay?

DW and SH III and IV run smooth on Vista 64bit. So far, I have had only one game giving me problems and that is Medieval Total War 2, but I am working on getting it running. Other then that, I am positively surprised. Regardless of all the bad press and negativity that you read about, it runs smooth and does not give me any headache.
IMO, it was worth switching.

Castout · 01-13-09, 12:12 AM

Well I hate starforce protection system.

How much RAM do you guys use for your 64 bit Vista?

Btw I'm also looking forward to the upcoming Empire total war. It would sucks if the 64 bit Vista couldn't run it.

A Very Super Market · 01-13-09, 12:15 AM

ETW definitely runs on vista. Game devs need to assume that everyone has the latest system and at least have XP

XLjedi · 01-13-09, 12:23 AM

SH3 runs fine for me on Vista64... actually I don't think I've found a game in my collection yet that doesn't run flawlessly.

...one thing though, after losing an optical drive, I had no desire to reinstall anything on my new Vista64 system with Starforce.

I just paid the $20 (at the time) and downloaded the Starforce-free direct2drive version which also came all pre-patched up! I wouldn't use that SH3 disk for anything other than a drink coaster.

I love my Vista-Pro install. The feature that allowed me to image the whole harddrive saves me about once a month (my kids play these internet-based games that wreak malware havoc on my system). So nice to push a button and have my system back to pristine order within minutes.

HunterICX · 01-13-09, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castout

How much RAM do you guys use for your 64 bit Vista?

Recommended amount of ram would be 4GB for Windows Vista.
and it will get you set for Empire Total War because as far I can gather about it, Empire Total War will require 2 GB of Ram if you run Windows Vista

HunterICX

01-13-09, 05:44 AM

Hey Castout. Games running on Vista64 depends a bit on your hardware. With a decent Rig I can recomend Vista64, made some very good expiriences with it annd had every game up and running. Older ones, like SHIII, require a bit of tweaking patience, but it's possible. Medieval 2 never was a problem on my Rig, for example. But as usual, it depends on little details and games that perfectly run on my machine may be problematic with yours and vice versa. 4 Gigs of RAM is a must, however.

If you have a bit more patience before upgrading you may want to wait for Windows 7, due end of this year, which promises much better performance then Vista. 64 bit is a huge improvement, however, if you have the chance go for it, no matter the OS. (XP64 beeing the exception. That one plain and simply blows)

TarJak · 01-13-09, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I hear it runs, but starforce will keep it from running. I have been unable to insall sh3 on my vista 64bit. The disk protection is the problem. I have a few other programs that have SF on it and i can't install them.

I had similar problems but the install wouldn't work at all. I found that using the SF removal tool before installing and then again after patching to 1.4b let me run SH3 without any drama.

goldorak · 01-13-09, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I hear it runs, but starforce will keep it from running. I have been unable to insall sh3 on my vista 64bit. The disk protection is the problem. I have a few other programs that have SF on it and i can't install them.

DW has no copy protection so it will run without a hick on vista 32/64 and xp 64.
For Silent Hunter 3, if its the version without starforce (budget edition in europe etc..) it will also run without problems. If on the other had you have the starforce version, may god help you :rotfl:

Fincuan · 01-13-09, 09:10 AM

SH4
IL2
Armed Assault

All work great on a 64bit Win 7, although you'll have to run IL2 in DirectX because Ati doesn't support OpenGL on 64bit Win 7.

SUBMAN1 · 01-13-09, 09:12 AM

Why would you want to downgrade your system? Vista is not a step forwards.

And why all the hype around 64-bit? It still has to run all your software in 32 bit. The type of CPU you have is a hybrid, not a true 64 bit CPU. It is only capable of 64-bit calls. The short answer is, the only thing 64-bit will give you is access to more RAM, and even this has been fixed for 32-bit. There could be a slight performance increase on the probably 2 x 64-bit apps out there, IE being one of them, but since programs like flash are not made for 64-bit, you'll still have to use the 32-bit version 98% of the time. There may actually be a performance decrease with 64-bit since 99.9% of your apps need to run in what is called 32 bit emulation mode (It is a 64-bit OS after all so you need to run your 32-bit programs in a sandbox, though many users may not notice this is happening outside of slightly decreased performance).

I could go on all day but the short answer is, 64-bit windows is still a novelty and one that might make your apps run slower since they need to be emulated. So, unless you want to run 20GB of RAM for some application (some vaporware application that you don't own yet) that you have, it is not worth it.

I've spoken my 2 cents.

-S

goldorak · 01-13-09, 09:24 AM

Subman1, win32 applications on windows 64 (xp 64 or vista 64) are not emulated.
They run on top of the wow subsystem which takes care of converting the api 32 calls to api 64 calls. Nothing more, nothing less. So the impact on performance is very mild, its nothing like running the application on a virtual machine or having it emulated.

As for advantage of 64 bit systems. Its no only having access to more memory (4 GB on a 64 bit system is just as futile as 2 GB on a 32 bit system. You really need 8 GB or more to offset the increase in code size due to 64 bit pointers), the day you will be running NATIVE 64 bit applications you'll use much more registers (something that on x86 architectures has always been a little on the starving side) and performance will increase. Sure not 100% but performance will increase.

It is a good thing to go to 64 bit. And by the way C2D, Phenom etc... are all 64 bit processors. They are not hybrids. They can run native 64 bit applications, and 32 bit applications. Even 32 bit application on 64 bit os through the wow subsystem (on windows). Itanium is a 64 bit processor that runs native 64 bit code, but runs 32 bit code only through EMULATION and not through a wow-like subsystem. Thats one of the reasons that Intel ditched the idea of using an Itanium-like processor for the desktop. Performace in 32 bit code execution and the fact that AMD beat them to the 64 bit. They were the first to have a working implementation of 64 bit that didn't penalize 32bit execution. So Intel did the only thing possibile, it licensed the technology from AMD and used it in its C2D etc.. processors, and obviously killed the desktop itanium like project along the way.

goldorak · 01-13-09, 09:33 AM

Flash definitely exists in native 64 bit, at least for the moment on linux/unix. systems.
Adobe is taking to much time to bring it to windows 64.
Maybe Silverlight will make them move their asses much more quickly though. :rotfl:

01-12-09, 11:06 PM	#1
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Thinking to migrate to Vista X64(64 bit system) from XP 32 bit Just that will Dangerous waters and Silent Hunter 3 run okay in Vista 64 bit system? Just how much more secure a 64 bit system when compared to a 32 bit system? Is Vista more secured than XP? I use my PC mainly for entertainment, Games and the internet. And my processor can handle 64 bit OS just fine. Should I migrate to 64 bit system? The thing is for using 64 bit Vista the minimum memory is stated as 4 Gigabyte. So that's the minimum. I'm thinking to use either 6Gb or 8Gb RAM. The last time I checked the biggest single RAM available was a 2Gb chip. So I'm going to need at least 3 or 4 of them. My biggest interest to use the Visa x64 is the relative security of 64 bit system when compared to 32 bit system. Actually I do not need to use multiple application simultaneously as what is offered by Vista x64 OS. Should I migrate or should I delay? __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

01-12-09, 11:17 PM	#2
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,925 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I hear it runs, but starforce will keep it from running. I have been unable to insall sh3 on my vista 64bit. The disk protection is the problem. I have a few other programs that have SF on it and i can't install them. __________________

01-12-09, 11:32 PM	#3
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yeah, most of your games will be screwed over by vista. I don't recommend you switch. Even if it means missing out on 64-bit, its a pain in the arse to patch up all your games, and have some of them not even work due to SF. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

01-13-09, 12:12 AM	#5
Castout Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 4,794 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 6	Well I hate starforce protection system. How much RAM do you guys use for your 64 bit Vista? Btw I'm also looking forward to the upcoming Empire total war. It would sucks if the 64 bit Vista couldn't run it. __________________ My blog: http://exposingsingapore.wordpress.com/

01-13-09, 12:15 AM	#6
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	ETW definitely runs on vista. Game devs need to assume that everyone has the latest system and at least have XP __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

01-13-09, 12:23 AM	#7
XLjedi Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 1,200 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 8	SH3 runs fine for me on Vista64... actually I don't think I've found a game in my collection yet that doesn't run flawlessly. ...one thing though, after losing an optical drive, I had no desire to reinstall anything on my new Vista64 system with Starforce. I just paid the $20 (at the time) and downloaded the Starforce-free direct2drive version which also came all pre-patched up! I wouldn't use that SH3 disk for anything other than a drink coaster. I love my Vista-Pro install. The feature that allowed me to image the whole harddrive saves me about once a month (my kids play these internet-based games that wreak malware havoc on my system). So nice to push a button and have my system back to pristine order within minutes. __________________

01-13-09, 05:44 AM	#9
Bewolf Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Hey Castout. Games running on Vista64 depends a bit on your hardware. With a decent Rig I can recomend Vista64, made some very good expiriences with it annd had every game up and running. Older ones, like SHIII, require a bit of tweaking patience, but it's possible. Medieval 2 never was a problem on my Rig, for example. But as usual, it depends on little details and games that perfectly run on my machine may be problematic with yours and vice versa. 4 Gigs of RAM is a must, however. If you have a bit more patience before upgrading you may want to wait for Windows 7, due end of this year, which promises much better performance then Vista. 64 bit is a huge improvement, however, if you have the chance go for it, no matter the OS. (XP64 beeing the exception. That one plain and simply blows)

01-13-09, 09:10 AM	#12
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	SH4 IL2 Armed Assault All work great on a 64bit Win 7, although you'll have to run IL2 in DirectX because Ati doesn't support OpenGL on 64bit Win 7.

01-13-09, 09:12 AM	#13
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Why would you want to downgrade your system? Vista is not a step forwards. And why all the hype around 64-bit? It still has to run all your software in 32 bit. The type of CPU you have is a hybrid, not a true 64 bit CPU. It is only capable of 64-bit calls. The short answer is, the only thing 64-bit will give you is access to more RAM, and even this has been fixed for 32-bit. There could be a slight performance increase on the probably 2 x 64-bit apps out there, IE being one of them, but since programs like flash are not made for 64-bit, you'll still have to use the 32-bit version 98% of the time. There may actually be a performance decrease with 64-bit since 99.9% of your apps need to run in what is called 32 bit emulation mode (It is a 64-bit OS after all so you need to run your 32-bit programs in a sandbox, though many users may not notice this is happening outside of slightly decreased performance). I could go on all day but the short answer is, 64-bit windows is still a novelty and one that might make your apps run slower since they need to be emulated. So, unless you want to run 20GB of RAM for some application (some vaporware application that you don't own yet) that you have, it is not worth it. I've spoken my 2 cents. -S __________________

01-13-09, 09:24 AM	#14
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Subman1, win32 applications on windows 64 (xp 64 or vista 64) are not emulated. They run on top of the wow subsystem which takes care of converting the api 32 calls to api 64 calls. Nothing more, nothing less. So the impact on performance is very mild, its nothing like running the application on a virtual machine or having it emulated. As for advantage of 64 bit systems. Its no only having access to more memory (4 GB on a 64 bit system is just as futile as 2 GB on a 32 bit system. You really need 8 GB or more to offset the increase in code size due to 64 bit pointers), the day you will be running NATIVE 64 bit applications you'll use much more registers (something that on x86 architectures has always been a little on the starving side) and performance will increase. Sure not 100% but performance will increase. It is a good thing to go to 64 bit. And by the way C2D, Phenom etc... are all 64 bit processors. They are not hybrids. They can run native 64 bit applications, and 32 bit applications. Even 32 bit application on 64 bit os through the wow subsystem (on windows). Itanium is a 64 bit processor that runs native 64 bit code, but runs 32 bit code only through EMULATION and not through a wow-like subsystem. Thats one of the reasons that Intel ditched the idea of using an Itanium-like processor for the desktop. Performace in 32 bit code execution and the fact that AMD beat them to the 64 bit. They were the first to have a working implementation of 64 bit that didn't penalize 32bit execution. So Intel did the only thing possibile, it licensed the technology from AMD and used it in its C2D etc.. processors, and obviously killed the desktop itanium like project along the way.

01-13-09, 09:33 AM	#15
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Flash definitely exists in native 64 bit, at least for the moment on linux/unix. systems. Adobe is taking to much time to bring it to windows 64. Maybe Silverlight will make them move their asses much more quickly though. :rotfl: