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Old 03-29-2007, 02:50 PM   #16
UglyMowgli
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France (and England, to a lesser extent) were largely responsible for the putative nature of The Treaty of Versailles, which my man Woodrow Wilson predicted would start World War 2.

You prefer make buisnes with Hitler until you delcare war to Germany than helping French and British?

The whole Vietnam conflict might have been avoided if France would have not treated the inhabitants so poorly.

And if the USA didn't give weapon to 'liberation movement' of Indochina. In 1954 why US troops replace French troops in Indochina, why didn't the USA let the people of indochina alone.

And then of course there's the fact that France hasn't treated Americans well the last century.

Give me some, we can discuss them.

Even American soldiers fighting to liberate France said the people were unwelcoming, hostile and rude.


Angry people were in village and cities were desvasted by the most precise bombing force of the WW2. Have you ever look at somle photo of Cean, Le Havre, Brest and some other major city or village of France after the US bombing (the city were I leave was bombed in 1944 and half destroyed, the target was a railway station 15km away!). So when you lost all your family and your house, you will see the Liberator with an otehr point of view.

I do think it is unfortunate that France is ridiculed for falling so quickly to Germany in World War 2, though, as they were doomed from the beginning. France fought an undivided Germany almost unaided and before it was able to mount the defenses it had planned. England would have fallen just as easily were it not for the all important Channel.

Do you know how many french soldier were killed during the 5 weeks of the german assault ? I don't think,Ii will give you the number 91,000 and 232,000 were wounded report this to the total population of France in 1940 and compare with all the US troops lost during the all WW2.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertisland
Thanks for demonstrating my point. :P

Americans hate the French because it's like looking into a mirror and they don't like what they see.
I disagree. America is incredibly different, chiefly because France is isolationist when it comes to culture, whereas America is adaptive. American culture is essentially a hodgepodge of world culture adapted to suit American tastes. Our Government is the result of English practicality and French idealisms. Our food is chiefly foreign, within five miles of my downtown Charleston apartment there are Italian, French, Greek, British (these generally aren't very popular :p), Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, Mexican, Korean, Indian, Argentinean and Vietnamese restaurants all with varying degrees of authenticity (my favorites are the Greek, Spanish and Japanese restaurants; I've been to Barcelona and the food at Tapas is identical to the great food I had in Spain). There are a great deal of idiots in America, just like anywhere else, but the majority are fairly intelligent and most desire to leave the country and see the world. I'm not going to make a bunch of generalizations on the French people, as I've never been, but the way they portray themselves on the global scene is irksome to most Americans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgalileo
You prefer make buisnes with Hitler until you delcare war to Germany than helping French and British?
I don't think you got my point. The Treaty of Versailles is what allowed Hitler to gain power. Hitler was the definition of an extreme Nationalist, and he was able to gain power because the people were more worried about starvation than morality. Punitive treaties only prolong bitter feelings and give the defeated people reason to seek additional conflict to restore their power. It was wrong to blame World War I on the Germans and it was wrong to exploit them with that horrible war provoking treaty. The technique utilized by America was European in origin, but it is superior and plain common sense. Limit the defeated countries military capability, but ensure that they have the economic capability to keep an acceptable standard of living and help them establish a stable government. Hell, look at Japan. Japan is one of America's closest and most stable allies, yet not one hundred years ago we were responsible for the death of the majority of their population. That is due to America's (relatively) soft handed treaty and Japan's amazing ability to rebuild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgalileo
And if the USA didn't give weapon to 'liberation movement' of Indochina. In 1954 why US troops replace French troops in Indochina, why didn't the USA let the people of indochina alone.

Are you familiar with the Korean War? Have you asked the South Koreans whether they'd have preferred Americans "let the people of Indochina alone?" Perhaps you would have preferred the assimilation of Indochina by, you know, the Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgalileo
Give me some, we can discuss them.

It's just sentiment. There was the defacing of American and British tombstones (I know, vocal minority, but still pretty low) and countless other small occurrences of petty Nationalism. Most apparent is the treatment of Americans visiting Paris. Of the several Americans I've talked to about their visit to Paris, all but one said they were harassed on multiple occasions. The one that didn't pretended to be Canadian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgalileo
Angry people were in village and cities were desvasted by the most precise bombing force of the WW2. Have you ever look at somle photo of Cean, Le Havre, Brest and some other major city or village of France after the US bombing (the city were I leave was bombed in 1944 and half destroyed, the target was a railway station 15km away!). So when you lost all your family and your house, you will see the Liberator with an otehr point of view.

First of all, thanks for the complement, our air power in WW2 did kick 32 flavors of ass. :p The thing is, this was true of every other country in the war as well. According to reports from famous divisions like the 101st, even the German people were more receptive of American soldiers than the French. Though there were civilian casualties, there was looting and there were countless little atrocities on either side even in the best of times the people of France really could have been more receptive to the men who were dying far away from their homes for French gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgalileo
Do you know how many french soldier were killed during the 5 weeks of the german assault ? I don't think,Ii will give you the number 91,000 and 232,000 were wounded report this to the total population of France in 1940 and compare with all the US troops lost during the all WW2.
Yeah, I know. In fact that's more or less what I said. The French fought just as hard as any other country would have in their place, but they were outclassed by the greatest military power of the time. Their tactics were a bit short sighted, but that's true of most. That is precisely why I agree with you that laughing at French military exploits in WW2 is contemptible and ignorant.

I'm enjoying this argument, but this really isn't the best place. Maybe we can take it somewhere else?
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Old 03-31-2007, 06:57 PM   #18
MobyGrape
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Never meet a French Fry i didn't like!

Viva La France
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Old 04-01-2007, 08:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSgalileo
Do you know how many french soldier were killed during the 5 weeks of the german assault ? I don't think,Ii will give you the number 91,000 and 232,000 were wounded report this to the total population of France in 1940 and compare with all the US troops lost during the all WW2.
Thats an interesting argument. The US like to pride themselves how they defeated the Nazis - when in fact they were just wiping off the floor after the Russians had broken the back of Germanys military power, while Britain held out in the West. If under any real pressure (like during the Battle of the Bulge) American morale began to collapse like in any other Army (except the Japanese maybe). Americans were great soldiers, they displayed their superior qualities in many battles, especially in the Pacific, but they have no reason to look down on anyone.

The US decided the war, but they didn't win it - that credit belongs to Russia, and to a lesser extend to Britain.

I do think, however, the French were without a chance because they were the most battle weary after WWI, and many accepted the inevitable, especially as the Nazis were accepting the French on Racial terms, showing a sincere interest in their culture, and treating them relatively better than most occupied countries (I say relatively, of course they still treated them bad!).

I agree that the French must take the blame for the Treaty of Versailles, but that was the time, and it was not like they had no reason. Think of 1871, think of the level of destruction in Eastern France. The Kaisers terms, had he won the war, would have been even more unfair and there would certainly have been another war in any case.

GE

P.S. Vive la France!
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Old 04-22-2007, 08:03 AM   #20
Spytrx
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now there is a classical exapmple of thread hijacking...


any links to the Jap and Chinese forums in question?
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:14 AM   #21
Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Hey Neal, how about a German forum? There's alot of German subsimmers about already on these forums, but many who can't speak english properly don't register here, which creates a division, especially in the modding communities.

I'm going to make a post suggesting a German lanquage section in the 'Comments to Subsim review setion'
I completely agree with this statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer View Post
Btw, I wonder why there are hardly any French skippers .. would like to brush up my French as well ..
I think it's because the French love their language and keep within their own communities.
You're not right, Sir.
Of course that's because many () of us are isolationist (and may I say this attitude is our proudness ?), but mostly because we're still not very familiar with english language.
MSGalileo is right, often people make fun of us, for any reason... But I must do justice to Neal and Subsim here and now : even though I still have to improve my english a lot, everyone has always been kind enough not to reprimand me for having a rather rough english vocabulary.

@ MSGalileo : Wanna make friends on a friendly foreign site related to submarine simulation ? You could do a lot worse than sending all your mates this link for them to register.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:55 PM   #22
Kipparikalle
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The reason why no chinese people posted on the chinese forum section is because of the censoring happening in China.
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