John P. Cromwell attack technique on order

[Rockin Robbins]

I was having an extended PM conversation with Nisgeis about targeting methods. He had a great idea about shooting from 45º ahead of the target to increase the speed of the torpedo relative to the target compared to the right angle approach of the Dick O'Kane method. His spider senses told him that the 45º attack might be as easy to deliver as a Dick O'Kane attack and come with a bunch of advantages. He could just about see how the thing would work, but couldn't quite put it all together. Does he ever have great instinct. His attack method is a gem!

In addition to the torpedo's speed, 70% of the target's velocity is helping bring them together more quickly!

Therefore for a shot taken at the same range the target gets much less time to react!

If for some unknown reason you blow the attack and the target is still 45º in front of you, you have time to set up another Dick O'Kane attack before he gets to you!

In a convoy situation an angled shot through the columns might miss your target, but has maximal chance of picking up another victim!

All that made me really curious. So I broke out MoBo--electronic maneuvering board and salad slicer. Shazzam! There appeared to be a way to make this work as easily as Dick O'Kane, with no outside tools or calculator necessary. Nisgeis wanted to call it Fast-45, but I hit him with aaronblood's true (damn! his arguments are ALWAYS true) contention that Fast-90 was a technique that required the U-Boat's periscope/TDC direct connection and calling this Fast-45 would just muddy the water.

The Dick O'Kane technique is named after a great submarine ace, who used similar but not exact TDC wizardry to bring down his targets. Why not continue to name these after great American sub commanders? Our list came down to two commanders, but one, John P. Cromwell, merited the name for several reasons. First, he never had the chance to use this technique. He died without notable success in destroying the enemy. But he received the Congressional Medal of Honor for a very special reason.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

While attacking a Japanese convoy on 19 November 1943, Sculpin was forced to the surface, fatally damaged in a gun battle and abandoned by her surviving crew members. Captain Cromwell, who knew secret details of the impending operation to capture the Gilbert Islands, deliberately remained on board as she sank.

And quoting his subsequent Congressional Medal of Honor citation:

Determined to sacrifice himself rather than risk capture and subsequent danger of revealing plans under Japanese torture or use of drugs, he stoically remained aboard the mortally wounded vessel as she plunged to her death. Preserving the security of his mission at the cost of his own life, he had served his country as he had served the Navy, with deep integrity and an uncompromising devotion to duty.

So this attack technique will be a tribute to a true hero, who never got his chance to show his skill in a way that would make his name memorable today. But perhaps by naming an attack technique designed for a game, which itself memorializes the men who served, after this man, we might pause, while setting up this attack, to remember John P Cromwell, whose deed was every bit as heroic as those we celebrate: Mush Morton, Dick O'Kane, Sam Dealey or Eugene Fluckey. Let's remember Captain Cromwell as we set up this attack, named for him.

With the help of MoBo I've worked out the math and reduced its complexity so you can figure it out in your head in real time during the game. I've executed one practice attack, hitting four of four from 3300 yards. So it works.

Now the hard part: writing a set of instructions that YOU can use even better than I can, and making a tutorial movie for those who don't learn from written instructions. I can't make any promises on time. It's more important to do this right than do it on a schedule. I can tease you with my attack setup from the nav map on the prototype attack:


I could show you the picture of the tanker exploding, but that would just be bragging. I try not to do that, but to teach others to jockey their subs, hopefully better than I can. You can post your own explosions when this thing gets off the ground.

[Lexandro]

Nice post RR. As it transpires this kind of attack is how I have been approaching the game with Monsun/RSRD due to the large size of the convoys. By coming in at a 45 degree attack angle I can work a position to fire my bow and stern tubes in one flurry, using the targets forward speed as an "assist" to the torpedo travel time. That way I can hit 2 targets in one attack run and if I continue on my path I can work another shooting oppertunity from the convoy moving across my path.

While it would be much harder to do with full manual aim (ie work 2 sets of TDC calcs) the 45 degree attack angle method is a staple in my play book.

[Rockin Robbins]

Lexandro, all my attack techniques are manual targeting techniques with the goal of making them so easy and enticing that you, on your next trip to port, will x that manual targeting option and go for it!

Even though it's cool to take out all the escorts and shoot multiple targets with auto-targeting, there is nothing to compare with all the whooping and hollering that takes place when you take out your first target on manual targeting.

My wife thought I was an idiot! Why does she have to be right all the time? It isn't fair....

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Lexandro

Nice post RR. As it transpires this kind of attack is how I have been approaching the game with Monsun/RSRD due to the large size of the convoys. By coming in at a 45 degree attack angle I can work a position to fire my bow and stern tubes in one flurry, using the targets forward speed as an "assist" to the torpedo travel time. That way I can hit 2 targets in one attack run and if I continue on my path I can work another shooting oppertunity from the convoy moving across my path.

While it would be much harder to do with full manual aim (ie work 2 sets of TDC calcs) the 45 degree attack angle method is a staple in my play book.

I too have been approachin at a similar angle... just made sence to me. As you said if you miss you still have an easy correction to fire again. Plus the closing angles of the torp and the intended target..... well just makes sense its faster.

Ive been doing this out of 'instinct' its pretty cool so see my guesses confirmed.

[Lexandro]

Usually I try the full realism settings in a sim game and can get to grips with the after a bit of practice. In falcon 4.0 I have mastered the full realism settings of air-combat in an F-16 and I know exactly what every button and switch does and when and how to use it.

In SHIV however, its less instinctual than say flight is. Its more calculatory based combat, and to be frank I really cant get to grips with doing lots of math just to play the game. No doubt as some point I will get my head around it in a simple fashion, its just that for the time being manual aim is beyond my grasp.

If there was a proper tutorial mission just for working an easy shot, with lots of guide and tips on how to do so in the mission itself I might be able to learn it easier. Doing it hands on its a much more powerful learning tool for me than learning from study.

[Rockin Robbins]

Nisgeis, why don't you pop in here and tell your story of how you thought up this attack method and what you told me that made me wrestle with all those nasty numbers?

[XLjedi]

So, I see you're coming in on a 45° to the target TC.

Is that it? ...or is there something more to it? :hmm:

So far, I'm not really seeing any need to name it anything...

[I'm goin' down]

I set up a Cromwell attack. The ship was approaching from my port side -- the target's starboard side. I set up at a 45 degree angle, and checked it with the bearing tool to make sure my zero bearing was at a 45 degree to the target's track. I checked the speed of the target over a 3 minute interval. I set the scope at 10 degrees and turned off the PK. I sent the range to the TDC. As the target passed the cross-hairs, I fired 4 shots along its length. The torpedoes were set for 20 feet, within the target's depth. I set the AOB at 35 degrees starboard. All of the shots missed. I must have had the speed wrong? Any other ideas? I was set up for so long that I consumed three of RR's Mai Tai's, but I will save victory slice of cheescake for a later date.

Did you watch your fish with the external camera? They might have passed under the ship if you used contact influence (the torpedos had a defect where they ran deeper than they were set for). I generically set my torpedos for 13-14 ft for just about every merchant since I rarely identify a ship( I like to shoot from far away) and I find that I have a low % of torps that pass under.

Urge

[I'm goin' down]

I did not watch the fish on the external camera. I was fixing a Mai Tai in preparation for the party that we expected to have after the merchant went down. I do not think the fish passed under the keel because they were set 5 feet above its draft.

[Munchausen]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

I do not think the fish passed under the keel because they were set 5 feet above its draft.

Prior to the official fix, rule of thumb decreed that a torpedo generally ran ten to eleven feet deeper than its setting.

Besides depth, you need to set a torpedo's speed. What setting did you use (fast?) ... and what speed did you use (46 knots?) for calculating your attack geometry?

[I'm goin' down]

Is the lead angle of 11 degrees in RR's tutorial dependent on the speed of the approaching target? Is the same if the target is doing 10 kts. versus 12 kts? If so, I guess you vector it like RR did in his tutorial? Manhausen, I am not sure what geometry you are talking about, plus I am no math wizard.

[Munchausen]

You didn't mention torpedo speed. The whole idea behind the Cromwell attack depends upon the ratio between target speed and torpedo speed.

[I'm goin' down]

I blew an attack, so I thought I would get some advice. I missed the target because it blew past the cross hairs while I was at kicking my dog, who , without warning, instinctively took a run at my left ankle. The target also changed course, because I was on the surface and it saw me, even though it was 2:00 a.m. and dark out.

To prepare for the missed kill, I prepared a vector at 4800 yds. for a fast torpedo, with a lead of 900 yds. based upon a 9 kt. speed carefully measured over 360 degrees. The PK was off. I set the AOB at 35 degrees port. The lead angle measured either 8 or 9 degrees, I cannot remember which. I sent it to the TDC with my periscope pointed at the corresponding bearing and the range lever pulled all the way to the right (I am not sure pulling the range lever is required?). When I checked the attack map and the PK dial, I noticed a slight gyro angle of about 2 degrees (How do you guys make the little degree symbols?). Now for the question. Shouldn't the gyro angle be 0 degrees? If that is correct, what do I do to correct this?

I'm goin' down wrote...

(How do you guys make the little degree symbols?).

hold down alt type 0176 then let up alt but I can't get it to do it here when I'm replying to a post on Subsim. You could also go to Go To Start/Accessories/System Tools/character Map °


Urge