UC3 Nautilus sunk - Peter Madsen charged with murder of journalist Kim Wall - Page 10

Catfish · 08-24-17, 09:17 AM

He did it, no doubt.
Had he instantly reported it, it might have been passed as an accident, certainly depending on evidence found.

But dismembering and adding a weight, scuttling the sub, telling different stories overtime, this covering-up makes an accident implausible.
It seems he had to hide something, and while we can only guess what it is, there are not so much plausible foregoing events to imagine

Schroeder · 08-24-17, 10:45 AM

German media says that he's now charged with murder and not manslaughter anymore.

(in German)
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/kim...klage-101.html

mapuc · 08-24-17, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm obviously no expert of the judicial system in Denmark but here in the UK there would already be sufficient evidence both material and circumstantial for the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) to go to trial with.

You state 'without any doubt'. Surely that should be 'beyond reasonable doubt', otherwise there would need to be a first hand witness present or video evidence or something of that nature during the actual event before a conviction could be obtained?

Me either.
Heard a expert on Danish Justice, saying it ain't enough that they have found the torso, blood inside his sub. The police and the prosecutor has to prove it was him. Then this woman mentioned som old case where the perpetrator had confessed and after removed this or the police had found enough evidence, but the criminal was set free by the court.

In my head it's no doubt Peter did this-
The big question is-Could he have an evil alter ego-Like Mr. Jekyll and Hyde ? If so, could Peter be unavare of his alter ego ? This is of course a job for the psychiatrist.

Markus

AVGWarhawk · 08-24-17, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Me either.
Heard a expert on Danish Justice, saying it ain't enough that they have found the torso, blood inside his sub. The police and the prosecutor has to prove it was him. Then this woman mentioned som old case where the perpetrator had confessed and after removed this or the police had found enough evidence, but the criminal was set free by the court.

In my head it's no doubt Peter did this-
The big question is-Could he have an evil alter ego-Like Mr. Jekyll and Hyde ? If so, could Peter be unavare of his alter ego ? This is of course a job for the psychiatrist.

Markus

Alter ego? I have never met the guy. I do not know what if any ego he may have. Perhaps sexual advances were made aboard the sub that were thwarted or perpetrated. Were these two alone on the sub? What would a journalist do once arriving back to port after such an event?

Onkel Neal · 08-24-17, 11:06 AM

The charges have been upgraded to murder
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7910671.html

mapuc · 08-24-17, 11:32 AM

Danish police are going to add additional charge against Peter. "Improper handling of human remains"

Markus

Carotio · 08-24-17, 11:53 AM

http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/muligt-fu...rettet/6790935
http://politiken.dk/indland/art60805...mulig-kropsdel

Possibly, a body part has been found near Falsterbo in Sweden. Danish police notified about it. No more news about that.

http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/torso-var...e-ting/6790284

The torso was nude, so the clothes must be flowing in the water somewhere...

http://www.bt.dk/krimi/avis-raket-ma...sikerede-taesk

Rumour goes that PM is now in solitary in the prison. Because of hierarchy in prisons, it's probably PM himself who wanted to be there, because any criminal who have molested, damaged or killed any woman or child is the lowest of the lowest, and though he isn't convicted in a trial yet, everybody in there knows who he is by now.

http://www.bt.dk/krimi/nyt-i-ubaadsm...gslet-for-drab

On september 5th, when the next trial hearing will take place, the prosecutor will ask to have PM examined by a psychologist plus he/she will demand the charge of molesting the body to be added to the charge. For that alone, it's up to 6 months in jail. If he is convicted of manslaughter, it's up to 8 years in prison, and if it's murder - according to this:
https://danskelove.dk/straffeloven/237
it will be from 5 years to life. A lifesentence in Denmark is usually up to 16 years, IIRC. Only hard cases, it's really life. But even then, it's hard. We once had a police murderer, who stayed in prison for 33 years.
Back in 2000, a man, who once murdered his own mother, when he lived in the USA, came back to Denmark, got a relationship with a woman, whom he later killed along with her children. I was back in 2000 one of those who had to search for the bones of those 3 persons. Peter Lundin was his name. Even though the bodies were never found, the police presented enough evidence in court, so he was convicted to life in prison.
So it could be possible for the court to convict PM for this, if they have enough evidence to convince the court.
Now some of you speak of a jury. I'm not sure there will be a jury for this case, or if it will be 3 judges. I'm not that much into Danish law system, but I don't think that juries are used that much in Denmark. I think that several judges are more common. But I could ask some friends who study law to ask around, what's more common, plus I know a lawyer to ask too.

Anyway, as several of you have written. The fact that the body is dismembered/molested, and the fact that the sub went down, and the fact that he lied and changed explanation, and the fact that he didn't call for help, all that makes it impossible to believe that it indeed was an accident. If - and it's a BIG IF - it was an accident and that he went into panic and wanted to bury her at sea, then why the .... did he cut her up? Temporaily insanity? And why didn't he tell about that fact from the beginning? The calm way he was answering the questions from reporters when he got ashore and brought to the police doesn't show a man in panic.
I'm really looking forward to read the result from the psycologist and what the final verdict will be. Hopefully, the full truth will be revealed at that time. Because now, there are really too many open questions, which need to be answered.....

Rockin Robbins · 08-24-17, 12:14 PM

What begins to emerge is the portrait of a particularly gruesome monster.... I fear this gets sadder before it gets better.

Mr Quatro · 08-24-17, 12:56 PM

What happens to his submarine? What if someone buys it at auction?

What is a one of kind submarine worth?

AVGWarhawk · 08-24-17, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

What happens to his submarine? What if someone buys it at auction?

What is a one of kind submarine worth?

The submarine is entered as evidence for now. I would believe it would be scrapped eventually.

Schroeder · 08-24-17, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

What happens to his submarine? What if someone buys it at auction?

What is a one of kind submarine worth?

Isn't it technically still his property? Just because someone goes to jail, doesn't mean they're stripped of their possessions.

mapuc · 08-24-17, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The submarine is entered as evidence for now. I would believe it would be scrapped eventually.

I have had almost the same thoughts-what's going to happen to his sub ?

Will it, when the police it done with, it be sold on some auction ?

If so, who's going to buy a sub, where a horrible crime have been....

Markus

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-24-17, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The submarine is entered as evidence for now. I would believe it would be scrapped eventually.

Agreed. After first trial there will likely be appeal or two and submarine will almost certainly remain in evidence until case is closed. I'm quite confident that Danish government will take Nautilus in its possesssion and will silently scrap it to avoid any souvenir nonsense.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-24-17, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Isn't it technically still his property? Just because someone goes to jail, doesn't mean they're stripped of their possessions.

I don't know about Danish law but in Finland court can condemn property (without compensation) if it has been used in commitment of crime or acquired by criminal means or with illicit gains. I'm surprised if there are no similar provisions in Danish law books.

AVGWarhawk · 08-24-17, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

I have had almost the same thoughts-what's going to happen to his sub ?

Will it, when the police it done with, it be sold on some auction ?

If so, who's going to buy a sub, where a horrible crime have been....

Markus

Thus my thoughts it will be scrapped.

08-24-17, 09:17 AM	#136
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,897 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	He did it, no doubt. Had he instantly reported it, it might have been passed as an accident, certainly depending on evidence found. But dismembering and adding a weight, scuttling the sub, telling different stories overtime, this covering-up makes an accident implausible. It seems he had to hide something, and while we can only guess what it is, there are not so much plausible foregoing events to imagine __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

08-24-17, 10:45 AM	#137
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	German media says that he's now charged with murder and not manslaughter anymore. (in German) http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/kim...klage-101.html __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

08-24-17, 11:06 AM	#140
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,289 Downloads: 534 Uploads: 224	The charges have been upgraded to murder http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7910671.html __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

08-24-17, 11:53 AM	#142
Carotio Mr. Bad Wolf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Aabenraa, Denmark Posts: 1,488 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/muligt-fu...rettet/6790935 http://politiken.dk/indland/art60805...mulig-kropsdel Possibly, a body part has been found near Falsterbo in Sweden. Danish police notified about it. No more news about that. http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/torso-var...e-ting/6790284 The torso was nude, so the clothes must be flowing in the water somewhere... http://www.bt.dk/krimi/avis-raket-ma...sikerede-taesk Rumour goes that PM is now in solitary in the prison. Because of hierarchy in prisons, it's probably PM himself who wanted to be there, because any criminal who have molested, damaged or killed any woman or child is the lowest of the lowest, and though he isn't convicted in a trial yet, everybody in there knows who he is by now. http://www.bt.dk/krimi/nyt-i-ubaadsm...gslet-for-drab On september 5th, when the next trial hearing will take place, the prosecutor will ask to have PM examined by a psychologist plus he/she will demand the charge of molesting the body to be added to the charge. For that alone, it's up to 6 months in jail. If he is convicted of manslaughter, it's up to 8 years in prison, and if it's murder - according to this: https://danskelove.dk/straffeloven/237 it will be from 5 years to life. A lifesentence in Denmark is usually up to 16 years, IIRC. Only hard cases, it's really life. But even then, it's hard. We once had a police murderer, who stayed in prison for 33 years. Back in 2000, a man, who once murdered his own mother, when he lived in the USA, came back to Denmark, got a relationship with a woman, whom he later killed along with her children. I was back in 2000 one of those who had to search for the bones of those 3 persons. Peter Lundin was his name. Even though the bodies were never found, the police presented enough evidence in court, so he was convicted to life in prison. So it could be possible for the court to convict PM for this, if they have enough evidence to convince the court. Now some of you speak of a jury. I'm not sure there will be a jury for this case, or if it will be 3 judges. I'm not that much into Danish law system, but I don't think that juries are used that much in Denmark. I think that several judges are more common. But I could ask some friends who study law to ask around, what's more common, plus I know a lawyer to ask too. Anyway, as several of you have written. The fact that the body is dismembered/molested, and the fact that the sub went down, and the fact that he lied and changed explanation, and the fact that he didn't call for help, all that makes it impossible to believe that it indeed was an accident. If - and it's a BIG IF - it was an accident and that he went into panic and wanted to bury her at sea, then why the .... did he cut her up? Temporaily insanity? And why didn't he tell about that fact from the beginning? The calm way he was answering the questions from reporters when he got ashore and brought to the police doesn't show a man in panic. I'm really looking forward to read the result from the psycologist and what the final verdict will be. Hopefully, the full truth will be revealed at that time. Because now, there are really too many open questions, which need to be answered..... __________________ Download my mods from SHMF Follow my photography here taler dansk, speak English, spreche Deutsch, parle français, forstår svenska/norsk, comprendo castellano

08-24-17, 12:14 PM	#143
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	What begins to emerge is the portrait of a particularly gruesome monster.... I fear this gets sadder before it gets better. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-24-17, 11:32 AM	#141
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,908 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Danish police are going to add additional charge against Peter. "Improper handling of human remains" Markus

08-24-17, 12:56 PM	#144
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What happens to his submarine? What if someone buys it at auction? What is a one of kind submarine worth? __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..