UK Politics Thread

[mapuc]

If a second referendum is coming I hope the pro-brexit will be higher then it was in the first referendum.

The spirit they have when needed.

Markus

[Skybird]

I do not think a second referendum will be won by Brexiteers. Many people who did not vote last time because they thought it would be refused anyway, this time will go voting (rise for anti-Brexit votes), and many pro-Brexiteers have been pissed and frustrated to death by the artistic programs shown by the primadonnas in the House of Commons and by May (drop for pro-Brexit votes). On the other hand, pro-Brexit camp most likely cannot activate any more voters than last time. So the ratio between pro and anti voters is likely to shift in favour of anti-Brexiteers, and when you consider that last time it was a relatively close outcome, it is then to be concluded that this time anti-Brexiteers would file in a substantial numerical superiority. If for no other reason than that all this mocking show only finally will come to an end.

I would assume 55-65% against Brexit.

My point always has been that then there has to be a third referendum, because somebody again will not like the result. And if in third referendum the result again is different, you must do a fourth. And if then the result changes again, you must do a fifth. And after that a sixth, of course.

Thats what you logically get when votings do not mean what their results show in the first going. They become a meaningless joke, like they also become when the alternatives you can vote on are not really different from each other.

[Catfish]

^ hmm, but all of the proposals have been turned down. No brexit without negotiatons, no new elections, but also no second referendum. So there will be no second referendum (even if that might be the wise thing to do, if anyone still gives a sh.. about democracy).

I still do not understand this, has May talked to no one before these test votings?

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

If a second referendum is coming I hope the pro-brexit will be higher then it was in the first referendum.

The spirit they have when needed.

Markus

Care to elaborate what the UK will win with a brexit, in your opinion?

[Catfish]

@Skybird
It probably does not make much sense to hold 50+ referendums
Especially when a referendum is not binding, like the first one

Imagine you vote for someone who claims that you will get twice the money, there's a fun fair in the sky, and the moon is made of green cheese.
So you believe, and vote for him.
And when he won due to your vote, he immediately runs away because he could not fulfil any of his promises and did not want to be held accountable for his lies. Instead he blames everyone else, and let others sort out the mess he created.

Don't you think a vote based on lies and false promises should be null and void?

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Care to elaborate what the UK will win with a brexit, in your opinion?

Overall the same thing we win by staying - not alot.

But at least we would be exempt from the EU's god awful Articles 11 & 13, Id suggest you have a read up on it and maybe then you can tell us why you are so keen to be apart of a union that wants to step in that particular direction.
https://gizmodo.com/the-end-of-all-t...net-1826963763
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47708144

Anyway, Enjoy posting links to news sites while you are still allowed to mate

[Catfish]

^^ I asked Markus

^ @Ju88: But no i do not like articles 11 and 13, and i do not like a lot of other EU stuff as well.
Which is why the EU as "legal entity" has to get a kick in the face, and has to be reformed, if not broken down and built up anew entirely. But how shall this work if everyone runs away like a rat, makes its own nationalist bs like Hungary, and has no say on matters anymore?

The reason for the "brexit" vote, the brexit leaders and the referendum's outcome has nothing to do with the articles you mentioned. And it has nothing to do with brexit leaders having good intentions for UK citizens, let alone with reality. They are betting for the UK economy to drop, and that's what is needed to make them richer, personally.

I'm no subscriber of the Financial Times, so i canot read your link. When the future does not look to rosy economically it is not all and always the fault of the EU though. You will find that out soon enough when having to trade via WTO rules, alone.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Have been following live transmission from the English parliament throughout the evening and I'm wondering how the English people is feeling about this

And I can't figure out if it's a horror, thriller or a comedian they are witness to from the English parliament.

Markus

Parliament is a circus full of clowns....FACT 100% TRUE.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by JU_88

EU's god awful Articles 11 & 13,

Some tech guys are saying this is the end of the Internet!

So Jim turn off the last light and pull the plug out, on the up side I will not have to fork out a bucket load of money to get on and use it.

[STEED]

The Brexit process remains in deadlock as MPs struggle to find a consensus on the next steps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47729773

LOOK YOU STUPID BLOODY WOMAN WITHOUT THE DUP YOU WILL NOT GET THAT BLOODY BILL OF YOURS THOUGHT!!!!!!!

HOW BLOODY THICK ARE YOU?

Jim has better odds cleaning up on the Grand National and winning a years worth of pot noodle.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by STEED

Some tech guys are saying this is the end of the Internet!
.

Its not the end, but it will inevitably give us an internet that more like China's.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Its not the end, but it will inevitably give us an internet that more like China's.

One guy produced a load of figures showing Internet use has been falling over the years and will end before 2040.

I will be in the old farts club by then leaving tech behind.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Skybird
It probably does not make much sense to hold 50+ referendums
Especially when a referendum is not binding, like the first one

Imagine you vote for someone who claims that you will get twice the money, there's a fun fair in the sky, and the moon is made of green cheese.
So you believe, and vote for him.
And when he won due to your vote, he immediately runs away because he could not fulfil any of his promises and did not want to be held accountable for his lies. Instead he blames everyone else, and let others sort out the mess he created.

Don't you think a vote based on lies and false promises should be null and void?

No, not one second: I prefer people learning finally - finally!! - a lesson from this and stop throwing their trust after anyone and stop voting for such people.


They will not learn if you save them from the consequences of their misjudgements every time.


And also: a rule is a rule. Either you follow the rules you set up, or you have referendum after referendum, election after electin and voting after voting on one and the same issue.


Maybe it would be wiser to work for a world where people can only decide on matters with boundaries as close so that they can overlook them with their very own eyes...?! You know by now that I am against big and deep states and nations as top-of-the-food chain-sovereigns. Very small prefectures. Local self-administration. No central power. Population sizes where necessarily "everybody knows everybody else", to exaggerate it a bit.

Everybody must be able to understand how his actions and dcisions influence the others, and how everyon else'S action on the other side of the prefecture territory has an effect on himself. Nobody shall be allowed to exlcude himself from the consequences of his decisons, and nboody is allowed to work in admnstraiton for a living, or live for the sake of somebody else. The more help somebdy takes from the others, the less he is allowed to cast his vote on community things. The more one gives to the community, the more his voice shall be heard. Adminstration work must be limited in time and legislation periods, and must not be paid for. It must be not a job, but an honour and a burden.


And administrators must be held accountable with all what they own and with all their property for their decisions. They shall not be allowed to influence money, to errect minting monopolies, and they shall not be allowed to spend on tic.



Much better than just randomly claim someobody lied to get voted for, so annuling the result but leave the poor rule not working good in place. Much of the misery of today'S poltics is due to kind of nepotism of oarties, non-transparency - and that poltical actor always cna just walk away, freely, with all they own and won, without the demand to fully throw themseves into damage comeosnation.



To think a poltician accepts responsibility by not being voted again for or by stepping down (and all too often his party later pushes him upwards the ladder again on another post) comoares to a bank robber who empties a bank safe by night, gets caught, and the bank does not demand the loot and the court does nto senetnce him and he can keep all the loot - the bank only ends his private bank account a that bank. Such a robber would not be thoght of as somebody who had been called to justice.


That Johnson already gets talked of again as the next big name once again and that he still has the ambition to become that indeed, illustrates what I mean. That man since years, and practically every major politician - should not hav ebeen heard of since many many years by now. And that is true for the political caste in practically every country.



And finally, a no-Brexit will not damage the EU, instead now will even allow it a big triumph. I will principally always oppose everything strengthenign the EU and sympathising with what weakens it. I oppose strong national state and deep state - but should allow to get owned by an even bigger, more corrupt continental centrally planned state where every problem now I complain about in state and monopolies and socialism and planned economy will be present in even a much, much bigger scale?


No. Not now. Not inthe future. At all cost: No. A free trade zone, yes. Not one bit more.

[Jimbuna]

You read it here first

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I should imagine this has the potential to turn into a right royal shambles and the Commons may well end up showing the UK public how out of touch they are with them.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Catfish

The reason for the "brexit" vote, the brexit leaders and the referendum's outcome has nothing to do with the articles you mentioned. And it has nothing to do with brexit leaders having good intentions for UK citizens, let alone with reality. They are betting for the UK economy to drop, and that's what is needed to make them richer, personally..

Yes, there is some truth in that, but equally many of remain leaders are in it for same reasons, just in their case leaving will make them poorer personally - as it will hurt their vested interests.
Do you really think that wealthy Remainers like Richard Branston and George Osborne care any more or less about the welfare of UK citizens than the wealthy Brexiteers.?

Fact is nobody knows with absolute certainty what the economic effects of brexit will be

The Brexiteers vary from admitting there will be some short term pain to over come, to - it will be simple case of agreeing to a bunch of WTO trade agreements (as if it could be magically done overnight) and from their on we all be waving our union jacks as we become some global economic power house under some kind of Thatcherite Utopian fantasty. we just have to 'believe in Britain'

Remainers also vary from thinking, it will cost some jobs and cause short term damage - to sky falling in conspiracies like empty supermarkets, mass-deportings, mass exodus of Businesses, witch burnings, Making the county a giant Offshore tax haven for Nigel Farage and his mates etc.
Dint't i hear some nutcase remainers are building a bunker? Honestly there are some i think that just want it to be a huge disaster 'just so they can say i told you so' because they will look very silly if works out ok in the end and no one will listen to them anymore.

So yeah Blind optimism and Dooms day conspiracies aside, I'm leaning towards 'probably some but not a huge amount of noticeable change for the average joe'.
The truth is not usually found at the fringes.

As for what vote was about - that's maybe quite simple to some degree.
Class divide, Mostly People in nice thriving towns and cities voted to remain. Mostly people in not so nice towns and poorer / rural areas voted to leave. If you're doing ok, you don't need to change anything, if your doing badly you'll try anything for a change.

Anyone of course can argue that 'uneducated' leavers are misguided and 'ivory tower' remainers are out of touch.