Strike on North Korea

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

This is good news for all concerned

Now watch NK launch a missile from a submarine that lands in the middle of the Gulf of Alaska and say, "Oh so sorry we had technical mistake in missile re-entry"

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if any medium range missiles are launched into the sea as has been the case in the past.

My own personal opinion is they will because Kim must save some of that loss of face and such launches won't be seen as attacks on the US or her allies and therefore he'll gamble that no retaliatory military measures would be forthcoming.

I'm also wondering how long the Chinese will maintain their current stance as well as how long the US can remain 'locked and loaded'.

[Platapus]

Besides Korea is already off Trump's short attention span. We are now going to invade Venezuela or some such nonsense.

[vienna]

What, he didn't want to invade Grenada again?...

An interesting article from The Atlantic:

Why North Korea Walked Back Its Threat on Guam --

Signs of a conflict with the U.S. may have been overblown.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...a-guam/536952/

Still, it emerged that despite the president’s comments, the Trump administration had been engaged in regular back-channel diplomacy with Kim’s regime at the UN. The two sides—represented by Joseph Yun, the U.S. envoy for North Korea policy, and Pak Song Il, the North Korean diplomat at the UN mission—had been discussing U.S. citizens detained in North Korea as well as relations between the two countries. Meanwhile, Rex Tillerson, the U.S. secretary of state, and James Mattis, the defense secretary, in an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal said the U.S. wanted a diplomatic solution to the tensions, and insisted the U.S. wasn’t seeking regime change in the North.

<O>

[Mr Quatro]

I still think Trump made them blink, but that started last Saturday when North Korea released a Canadian pastor back to his home country. He said that he only found out 15 minutes before they released him that he was going home: http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/15/asia/c...rea/index.html

But they still have three of ours in prison

At least three US citizens remain in North Korean custody.
Businessman Kim Dong-chul was detained in October 2015 and is serving a 10-year sentence for espionage.

Kim Sang-duk, an academic also known as Tony Kim, was detained in April and is accused of "hostile criminal acts," and researcher Kim Hak-song was detained in May and is also accused of "hostile acts."

[Rockstar]

Threatening another nation with violence using nuclear weapons has very far reaching implications and could open the door wide for preemptive strikes. Even last year Russia warned North Korea that the threats they were making could create a legal basis for the use of military force against that backwater crap hole country and quite possibly their weapons supplier. China obviously knew this too when they started to get their panties in a wad over a possible first strike by the U.S.

ya just dont talk smack like that and expect to get away with it. threatening nuclear strikes no matter how capable is wrong and may get you and millions of others killed.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

...
ya just dont talk smack like that and expect to get away with it. threatening nuclear strikes no matter how capable is wrong and may get you and millions of others killed.

Hey! ...and here I thought you were a Trump supporter!...



<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by vienna

Hey! ...and here I thought you were a Trump supporter!...



<O>

I read it different that Rockstar is talking about the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by vienna

Hey! ...and here I thought you were a Trump supporter!...



<O>

I dont vote, never have. But I do support my president regardless of party ideology or affiliation they may belong too or practise. Im retired military I still get paid once a month for 'reduced service' which in a way still makes the president part of my chain of command.

I still support my chain of command and I still take my oath of enlistment to heart.

This country of mine comes before any party. Im pretty happy with my life and all that Ive done I have no reason to take a crap on others to feel better about myself.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by 'servicio reducto'Rockstar

Even last year Russia warned North Korea that the threats they were making could create a legal basis for the use of military force against that backwater crap hole country and quite possibly their weapons supplier.

Putin might thusly find that a convenient argument for his current territorial dispute in Ukraine-under the guise of aiding the US in cutting off rocket supplies to the rogue N. Korean state....:Today's WSJ:

WASHINGTON—The rapid advance of North Korea’s intercontinental ballistic missile program has prompted questions about whether Kim Jong Un’s regime obtained Soviet-designed rocket engines illicitly from Ukraine or Russia.
The liquid-propellant rocket engines North Korea has been using in recent tests resemble the RD-250 and were probably acquired through illicit channels originating in Ukraine or Russia, where the complex rocket engine was designed, a report from the International Institute for Strategic Studies said Monday.
Michael Elleman, author of the report, said the single combustion-chamber version of the RD-250 rocket engine that resembles what the North Koreans are testing likely traces back to Ukraine’s Yuzhnoye State Design Office or Russia’s Energomash, two state defense companies involved in designing the engine in the past. Both defense contractors played critical roles in the Soviet Union’s ballistic missile program.

“The actual sourcing to me is still an open question,” Mr. Elleman, a missile expert, said in an interview. He said it was unlikely that either the Ukrainian or Russian governments had any knowledge about a rocket engine sale to North Korea and posited that Mr. Kim’s regime somehow obtained the engines through illicit networks.
Energomash didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
Whether North Korea has the capacity to produce such rocket engines itself domestically is a matter of debate. Mr. Elleman believes it’s far more likely that Pyongyang somehow smuggled dozens of engines from a place such as Ukraine, where they may have been available in factories or storage facilities, given the complexity of the technology.
“The engine itself could fit into a box that’s one by one by two meters,” Mr. Elleman said. “They put them usually in wooden crates for protection. You could load them onto an aircraft, trains or even trucks.”
WASHINGTON—The rapid advance of North Korea’s intercontinental ballistic missile program has prompted questions about whether Kim Jong Un’s regime obtained Soviet-designed rocket engines illicitly from Ukraine or Russia.
The liquid-propellant rocket engines North Korea has been using in recent tests resemble the RD-250 and were probably acquired through illicit channels originating in Ukraine or Russia, where the complex rocket engine was designed, a report from the International Institute for Strategic Studies said Monday.
Michael Elleman, author of the report, said the single combustion-chamber version of the RD-250 rocket engine that resembles what the North Koreans are testing likely traces back to Ukraine’s Yuzhnoye State Design Office or Russia’s Energomash, two state defense companies involved in designing the engine in the past. Both defense contractors played critical roles in the Soviet Union’s ballistic missile program.

“The actual sourcing to me is still an open question,” Mr. Elleman, a missile expert, said in an interview. He said it was unlikely that either the Ukrainian or Russian governments had any knowledge about a rocket engine sale to North Korea and posited that Mr. Kim’s regime somehow obtained the engines through illicit networks.
Energomash didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
Whether North Korea has the capacity to produce such rocket engines itself domestically is a matter of debate. Mr. Elleman believes it’s far more likely that Pyongyang somehow smuggled dozens of engines from a place such as Ukraine, where they may have been available in factories or storage facilities, given the complexity of the technology.
“The engine itself could fit into a box that’s one by one by two meters,” Mr. Elleman said. “They put them usually in wooden crates for protection. You could load them onto an aircraft, trains or even trucks.”
WASHINGTON—The rapid advance of North Korea’s intercontinental ballistic missile program has prompted questions about whether Kim Jong Un’s regime obtained Soviet-designed rocket engines illicitly from Ukraine or Russia.
The liquid-propellant rocket engines North Korea has been using in recent tests resemble the RD-250 and were probably acquired through illicit channels originating in Ukraine or Russia, where the complex rocket engine was designed, a report from the International Institute for Strategic Studies said Monday.
Michael Elleman, author of the report, said the single combustion-chamber version of the RD-250 rocket engine that resembles what the North Koreans are testing likely traces back to Ukraine’s Yuzhnoye State Design Office or Russia’s Energomash, two state defense companies involved in designing the engine in the past. Both defense contractors played critical roles in the Soviet Union’s ballistic missile program.

“The actual sourcing to me is still an open question,” Mr. Elleman, a missile expert, said in an interview. He said it was unlikely that either the Ukrainian or Russian governments had any knowledge about a rocket engine sale to North Korea and posited that Mr. Kim’s regime somehow obtained the engines through illicit networks.
Energomash didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
Whether North Korea has the capacity to produce such rocket engines itself domestically is a matter of debate. Mr. Elleman believes it’s far more likely that Pyongyang somehow smuggled dozens of engines from a place such as Ukraine, where they may have been available in factories or storage facilities, given the complexity of the technology.
“The engine itself could fit into a box that’s one by one by two meters,” Mr. Elleman said. “They put them usually in wooden crates for protection. You could load them onto an aircraft, trains or even trucks.”
Such a transaction would explain why North Korea has advanced its missile program so quickly. Mr. Kim’s regime conducted two intercontinental ballistic missile tests last month, an indication that the country is rapidly approaching the ability to strike the continental U.S. with nuclear weapons.
North Korea has conducted five nuclear weapons tests since 2006.
The situation has created one of the most pressing national security challenges for President Donald Trump, who has vowed to prevent Pyongyang from obtaining the capability to strike U.S. cities with nuclear weapons. Mr. Trump called on Mr. Kim last week to stop threatening the U.S. and said North Korea would face “fire and fury like the world has never seen.”
The New York Times on Monday reported that U.S. investigators have focused on the possibility that North Korea executed black market purchases of rocket engines originating from the Yuzhmash factory, a Ukrainian state-owned rocket engine maker that produces models from the associated Yuzhnoye State Design Office. The focus of the U.S. investigators couldn’t be independently confirmed by The Wall Street Journal.


Yuzhmash is located in Dnipro, about 150 miles west of the front between Ukrainian troops and the Russian-backed separatists fighting in the country’s east. Formerly known as Dnipropetrovsk, Dnipro is on the Ukrainian government-controlled side of the line.
Yuzhmash denied any connection with the North Korean weapons program and said the report was “fantasies.”
“Yuzhmash has not produced military missiles or missile systems during the years of independence,” the company said, referring to Ukraine’s declaration of independence from the Soviet Union in 1991. It said that the company fully adheres to international missile non-proliferation agreements, and the only series-production engine it has exported in recent years was sent to Italy and could only be used for space exploration.
Mr. Elleman said it was unlikely the company’s officials would have known about any such deal with the North Koreans, suggesting instead the equipment could have been smuggled out of Ukraine by “rogue characters somewhere down the chain.”
Mr. Elleman, a former missile engineer, said it’s unclear how many engines the North Koreans obtained, but guessed the number was likely in the dozens because Mr. Kim’s government appears to feel comfortable expending them during tests.
“I’m very skeptical of claims about reverse engineering complex pieces of machinery like this engine,” said Mr. Elleman, noting that even U.S. technicians have been unable to duplicate some high-level rocket engines with roots in the Soviet era. “It’s very sophisticated,” he said.
Yuzhmash was for decades a hub for the Soviet ballistic-missile industry considered so important that the city it was located in was closed to foreigners.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the company continued to work with Russia, but orders dried up after the Russia-Ukraine conflict began in 2014, and the company had to send some workers on unpaid leave.
Ukrainian government officials suggested the reports could be part of a campaign by Russia, which is covertly supporting a conflict in Ukraine’s east, to blacken its neighbor’s name.
“There is no basis for this information, it is inflammatory in content and, most likely, was instigated by Russia security services to cover up their own crimes," said Oleksandr Turchynov, secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council.

Considering https://sputniknews.com/world/201708021056103467-ukraine-united-states-lethal-weapons-supplies/

On Monday, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported that the US defense and diplomatic establishment had devised a plan to supply lethal arms to Ukraine. The weapons, characterized as 'defensive', may include Javelin man-portable anti-tank missiles, anti-aircraft weapons, and other advanced arms.
The US Joint Chiefs of Staff and Defense Secretary James Mattis support the plan, and it now awaits the approval of President Trump, who has yet to be briefed on its details. Officials told WSJ that a final decision from the President could take as long as several months to secure.

OUR one logistic hand does not know what the other is doing....

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

I read it different that Rockstar is talking about the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un

In this particular case, the description is apt of both parties, Trump and Kim; and Trump would probably agree, seeing how he is so eager to spread around the blame and responsibility for most everything...

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I dont vote, never have. But I do support my president regardless of party ideology or affiliation they may belong too or practise. Im retired military I still get paid once a month for 'reduced service' which in a way still makes the president part of my chain of command.

I still support my chain of command and I still take my oath of enlistment to heart.

This country of mine comes before any party. Im pretty happy with my life and all that Ive done I have no reason to take a crap on others to feel better about myself.

As far as military service is concerned, no aspersions were made or intended and there is no proof of that being my intent; if there is any insult, it is on your part in trying to impugn my intent in order to advance your own weak arguments. Stand by your arguments on their own and don't try to prop them up by leaning them on honorable service or by wrapping them in the Flag; own your own ideas, good or bad...

Regarding others of the military brethren, some are very much not pleased with the characterizations presented by the thugs at the Right Rally:

White Supremacist In Charlottesville Wearing 82nd Airborne Hat Gets Called Out... By 82nd Airborne --

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b08a247276f35e

Nazi In Charlottesville wearing 82nd Airborne Division cap condemned by 82nd Airborne Division --

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7894661.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-blasted-82nd/


As far as taking a crap on others, your continued snide remarks and attempts at belittlement of others who either do not share your views or attempt to provide proof to refute your posts is ample evidence you, in fact, seem to have no qualms about scatology...




<O>

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Putin might thusly find that a convenient argument for his current territorial dispute in Ukraine-under the guise of aiding the US in cutting off rocket supplies to the rogue N. Korean state....:Today's WSJ: Considering https://sputniknews.com/world/201708021056103467-ukraine-united-states-lethal-weapons-supplies/ OUR one logistic hand does not know what the other is doing....

They might find it a good excuse and who knows it may very well be justified. But can they withstand the heat they'd catch from the court of world opinion if they did? As far as aiding Ukraine I think its a big mistake and a waste of resources. I dont doubt for a moment that a good amount of what we send them will probably just be sold on the black market to places like NK

[Reece]

Look up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane -
"SPLAT!!". . . It's a bird!!

[Aktungbby]

TODAY's corrective WSJ update-posted in full for those w/o WSJ account:

The U.S. believes that North Korea produces its own rocket engines rather than relying on foreign imports, a U.S. intelligence official said Tuesday.
The comments from the intelligence community come as experts have questioned if Kim Jong Un’s regime obtained Soviet-designed rocket engines through illicit channels in Ukraine or Russia.
A report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies released Monday said the liquid-propellant rocket engines North Korea has used in recent tests resemble those originating from Soviet designs and theorized that North Korea had somehow illicitly purchased engines smuggled out of Russia or Ukraine.
“We have intelligence to suggest that North Korea is not reliant on imports of engines,” a U.S. intelligence official said Tuesday in response to the report. “Instead, we judge they have the ability to produce the engines themselves.”
The report’s author, Michael Elleman, said Tuesday that he remains skeptical that North Korea can produce engines of such sophistication on its own. Mr. Elleman said observations he made of the launch and trajectory of the missiles suggest they were of Soviet design. He inferred the missiles were imported to North Korea because Pyongyang lacked the expertise to build them unaided.
“One does not start by creating a new, powerful, efficient and reliable engine from thin air,” he said.
Mr. Elleman, a former missile engineer, pointed out that the U.S. has faced challenges refurbishing old Russian engines for space launches and that U.S. engineers cannot manufacture a Russian engine the U.S. continues to rely upon, despite two decades of work beside Russian engineers.
The intelligence official declined to comment further, but officials said the U.S. has been tracking North Korea’s program for a long time.
“The intelligence community has done remarkable work in understanding Kim Jong Un, watching his ballistic missile program develop, watching his nuclear weapons program continue to exceed,” CIA Director Mike Pompeo said Sunday on CBS ’s “Face the Nation.” “The intelligence there is actually very good.”
The reports come as a standoff between the Trump administration and North Korea appears to have dissipated, at least for now. North Korea’s leader, Mr. Kim, on Tuesday backed off a threat to strike Guam and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson later reiterated that the U.S. is open to talks with Pyongyang, provided it takes certain steps to de-escalate.
“We continue to be interested in finding a way to get to dialogue, but that’s up to him,” Mr. Tillerson told reporters at the State Department, referring to Mr. Kim.

How reassuring that Russian copies of rockets, with Chinese electronics, are no longer dependent on Ukrainian copied engines...I'll surely sleep the sleep of the saved! ...and thank WSJ's columnist, Felicia Schwartz, for keeping me posted!

[STEED]

^Dr Kimlove?



Mr President, fat boy Kim can see the big board, they have TV in North Korea now.

[Reece]

Then this must be Slim Kim, or is it Kim Pickins!!